EP. 54 "What About Your Friends" with Danielle Bayard Jackson

I'm gonna start off with my fucking weekend. Like you don't even have to ask me when I really got some ship going. I'm like, girl, I need to start making up some ship. I'm gonna end you with your week what you did and tell me you gotta Hi speed Chase with the Polish. So I'm gonna start doing that. I'm gonna started doing I would started fabricating my weekends, y'all. It's gonna be yeah, you already doing that, but that's what I make it interested. How was your weekend? Friend,

I had a good weekend. One of my homeboys he has like, of course, ide tickets to the game, and he was like, hey, I'm not going. You want the tickets. So I took my bestie and we went to the game, and I was like, had my feet on the hardwood. But guess what the scary part was? All right, So first of all, I got a real drunk at the game. I had such a good time. It's a good time and Hornets is kicking ass. We won, so it was cool. But somebody sent me a d M from a fake

page with a video of me at the game. That should kind of scared me. I don't like that ship you posted in your close friends, and it looked like the person was leveled, so they had to been directly across from you on the other side of the fucking court. That's weird. Yeah, we already know it's a guy. I bet you well if he had seas like mine sight, So right, so you can take me to the next game. Great, But that's all I did, is we can. It was

snowy and Charlotte and then I flew to Atlanta. I'm in Atlanta right now, so I'm recording from the a I had. I came down to take a um A class so I can work on movie sets because I'm trying to get my You know, I'm trying to find my lane on the set. Whatever you gotta do. I'm trying to be an actress. You know that you gotta do, y'all. Yeah. So one of my best friends has a salon to set course that she's been doing for these plutician holes,

and Tammy attended her class this weekend. I like, on my friends could be it was so good, y'all gotta take her class. Uh you know, I'll tell y'all when another one is gonna happen. So y'all can't take the class because yeah, it was really good. It was fun. I learned a lot, and I'm gonna be on set a lot of should be happening in Charlotte, Like a lot of movies and stuff they'd be doing in Charlotte, filming in in Atlanta right down the street, can pull

up Charleston even have a lot of films. Flights flight thirty four minutes. Talk to be having the play films though, girl, that bullshit. Yeah maybe having the slaves. Don't be talking about my people like that, not like that. I just joke, yo. Speaking of friendships, Yeah, we got a friendship coach coming on the show today. But before we get into that. Let's talk about something stupid ass and then that ship.

Oh man, So I saw a video this weekend and they say it's a little baby sucking the big old boy her booty. Her booty looked funny though on it it was a square on the side like it was round square pets. But now I see why. I little Jadeny try to work with her mother like a family job. I see why. Yeah, they need to call him baby baby. That thing was nice. I sent that picture that I mean when I tell you, I sent that video to

every woman I know and my damn cell phone. It came in, Oh you sent me there, and I sent it back. A year later, it came in on our group chat. I was like, who is that? And then I had to listen. Now somebody said little baby. But I didn't read the text initially, I just watched the video. But I heard his voice. That was definitely little baby. M hmm, that's my baby. I know that's the baby thing. That nah, that's the baby. Look now I need to see his dick. He was real. No, you know who did?

I need to see NBA? Young boy? That's who is he? A t right? Yes? I think or something like that at this point, because I'm seeing where a little blue got his name tattoo in her mouth. It's a ken trail in her mouth. Then the other one got his name tattooed on her, and one ain't got her arm. Don't even work no more behind that nigga, Like, I want to see his dick get better. Being all these kids, all these kids this nigga has, like I don't know how many kids, six seven, eight kids. Here's a lot

of boys too. I just feel like all these little girls need to make sure they had these kids in therapy as early as possible because that dude is not well. Y'all around here just accepting that DNA. Wait, wait, y'all, mom at that would be a nigga in Charleston where you know Grandma be like, don't you you better not get pregnant by him? His people crazy l mm hmmm, right, don't what do NBA stand for? I don't know something,

get oship. I'm sure nut busting man because he'd be making all the kids yeah yeah, oh no no. Also, um, Regina King, that was sad her son, he passed away. I love her and I wish I could hug her, right now like that's so sad he committed suicide. Suicide is just isn't it so much pandemic that they didn't talk about the real epidemic. It's a lot of people

who have committed suicide since um the pandemic started. The pandemics started between pandemic, but suicide and uh fitting All because I saw reports that fitting All is killing more young people than anything else in the world right now. These young people are just dying at because you know why, they're getting fitting All off the damn dark web, probably coming from China, some ship, probably attentional. We're killing motherfucker's over here, Like y'all better be careful. I just don't.

I just don't get it. And it's it's like we are not living as long as we think we are, Like you know, the older people on my dad's side of the family, Like it's more older people than young at this point. Like people just keep dying, bitch. I'mna keep going to jem make sure my heart is healthy and ship like that. I got to lose a pound, but I know my ship good. That's one thing you

always go Shrooms is like a hard drug. It's just not it is man that ship could open up your third eye and then never close it, and then you'd be out here. You be out here the Angelo, The Angelo do shrooms, you look like now, he'd probably be doing what's that should call? Um? You know they go out in the desert and do it? What's it called? It's not shrows, beccause we're out in the woods one with the earth doing. Did you see boosting this weekend?

He was sucking the road up right, He was literally fucking the road, go kill everybody in the car, stupid and stick and humping driving. He might have been He might have been on Molly, because that's molly all day long. The fuck Boosty is fun, man Boosty remind me. Yeah, I'm not gonna do any like we I'm just gonna stick to the look in the weed, like Drake. Even alcohols don't make me feel good, you know what I'm saying, Like I only can drink Don Julio, and really that's it,

and i'd like um. Another thing that doesn't make me feel bad is do say but everything else my body doesn't process the same anymore. Yeah, yeah, the next day is no matter. How I could have like to two cups, like to drinks and I'm feeling bad the next day, So I don't like that. What about wine and champagne? You can drink wine make me feel like I want to slip my wrist. It's like too much of a

downer for me, like I like. It alters my personality, and my personality is outgoing, like I'm up crump like I don't want to feel like I'm gonna be quiet. That's why I only smoke weed when I'm about to have sex, because I want to get this dick and go to sleep. I cannot be smoking weed like out in the world. I'd be no good to anybody. No, I can't. You want to add a little coke with spreaking little I don't want to do that no more, just sing I said. I used to want to do that,

just to see what it felt like one time. Alright, y'all judge me. If y'all want so, your mama's did it their whole life. Shut up the smoke crack. Yeah, listen, it's got a commercial, and let's talk about my friendship. Out of here. We'll be back, y'all. All right, y'all, So look, today's guest is a mom, a wife, and amongst other things, she's a professional bestie. Y'all, we have

Danielle Bayer Jackson. Um. She's an friendship expert. She also is the author of New York Times bestseller Fighting Fall Friendships. And we want to talk about that big as book deal you got too, girl. Yeah it has. It hasn't come out yet, and it's not so it's not yet a New York Terms bestseller. But I mean so, I'm glad that you just said that. Yes, I claim it, I claim it. Yes it is it already is girl? Listen, listen.

I'm so grateful to have you on here today because I just be losing these bitches listen right, I'm I don't know, is it me? Do I not know how to be a good friend? Or are these I'm picking bad bitches to be my friend? You know, I don't know. Yeah, this bitch right here fall out at least twice. It's different though, Like we're gonna have issues since we got a friendship and business together, so it's gonna be different. But you gotta be able to communicate, right yeah. So, um,

y'all listen. Danielle is committed to helping women make and keep friends. Um. So she's a professional, uh certified woman's coach, right, friendship coach? That's right. Yeah, people always give me side eye, like is that a thing? It's totally a thing. Yeah, it needs to be a thing, because you know what, I feel like women like I would let them nigga hurt my feelings a hundred times and take them back. But a bitch hurt my feelings and I'd be like, bitch,

you dead to me forever. You're not the only one that's a common one, right, is that we'll give you know, our our boyfriend's husband so many chances, but then when it comes to a friend, like, oh no, she crossed my boundaries. Once you're done. I think we have our friends on a different you know, we we have we hold them in higher regard than we hold men. Right, So it's like friends aren't supposed to suck up. That's how we feel about our home girls, right, but guys

like we expect them to keep messing up. When your friend does, it is like what the fuck? But that's so fake because we're all just human, right, you know, nobody's gonna be perfect. That's so true. I wish we brought more of that perspective when it happens, because when it happens, we're so deeply offended. I wonder if the reason for that, you know, discrepancy between how we are with men and then how we are with you know, our female friends, is because a lot of the conversation

leading up to those relationships. So even when you are reading a book or listening to a podcast about relationships, we're talking about forgiveness and communication and how to work through you know, what you think is a betrayal. So it's almost understood that he's going to mess up and we're gonna have to talk about it, Like I I anticipate that. But the language around friendship is so you know, even from when we're young, it's best friends forever and

you just get me and friendship should be easy. So that's a lot of the conversation. So once we do hit some kind of conflict, we are not ready to have a conflict with our friend, and we see it as evidence of, oh, we shouldn't be friends, because if we were friends, we wouldn't even be having a difficult time right now. And so a lot of it is the is the language about those relationships before we even get into them. Yeah, and you're you're right. That's because

it's further from the truth. I know, Like with me, all right, So I can be blunt, and sometimes my tone can be uh misunderstood, misunderstood, off bit off putting, girl, fuck you, And I feel like I lose friendships because I'll be honest and maybe my honesty comes off. As you already know, black women got a problem with accountability, So let's go ahead and put that out there. Anyway. So sometimes when we get called out, we just don't

like it, you know what I'm saying. We just don't like it, and it's hard for us to uh say you're right. And so all right, I'm gonna give an example. I just one of my friends that I've been like really close with for a while. I said, um, I feel like you've in uh sometime, he asked friend lately and she just did not take that well. And she was like, well, I'll just keep my distance. And that's

not what I wanted. I wanted her to be like, hey, I'm gonna do better at being at present for him, but instead she offered more distance and that made me more mad. So I was on something well, bitch, fuck you then, like and so it just went completely left instead of the direction I was trying to go with it. That so that's so interesting because the goal of conflict should be reconciliation. Like I'm bringing this up because i want harmony with you, because I'm trying to figure this out.

That's the objective of me bringing it up. But so much, you know, so many times we do take offense and we're like a lot of us are not comfortable, like you said, with being called out, and so when we are called out, even if ironically it's coming from a friend we love, we're so uncomfortable that to keep our distance, we're like, Okay, well I don't want to experience that again. Or or I guess she doesn't care about me the way I thought, or I guess she's coming at me.

So I'm gonna either or emotionally withdraw, or I'm going to be passive aggressive because I'm not comfortable with being called out. And so I think what could help that is as much as possible on the front end, if I am bringing up something she did that I think was kind of crazy, is to articulate that the goal of me bringing it up is because I'm trying to

understand and so that could have been changed. I mean, like one small little change you could have made, and you could have made this, you know, make this your own. It could have been something to the effect of, like, Okay, so help me understand what's going on, because I don't hear from me as much as I used to. I'm communicating to you that I'm trying to understand you. The point of me bringing this up because I don't get it.

I'm not bringing it up because I'm coming at you, and so, you know, Unfortunately, I wish you would have said, like, oh wait, why do you think I'm being sometimeing? Okay, that's my bad, which does require a level of humility, right, But she probably also was unsure about your objective and bringing it up, which was I don't want you to be sometime anymore. I want you to correct it. I

don't want you to leave, you know. And so there's a bunch of stuff that that happens there when we get called out how we perceive it and uh, and yeah, it cost us a lot of friendships. Sure, Oh god, it's exhausting learning how to tell the people. We gotta be a therapist, like I don't. I went and notice say though, say it in that way for someone to understand, but we understand. You have to communicate with people in

a way that they receive it. It's hard to hell, right, yeah, especially for me because I just think, uh, in the environment that I grew up in, everybody's like really blunt and real forward, and nobody takes offense to like that directness, you know, like it's just how we I grew up being talked to and speaking to others. It's just very direct. This is what it is. And I'm not gonna cry. We're not gonna cry about it. We're just gonna argue about it, perhaps talk about it, and then fix it.

That was just the dynamic that I grew up in. So now when I get in my adult relationships and I approached it that way, I lose these bitches is falling left and right soon as I say something about how let me ask you this. The friend you gave the example of wasout a newer friend or some of you've been friends with for a while, oh probably about three years, Okay, so newer. It's not a lifetime friendship, but we got close fast, you know. So when I

tell her, like you've been absent. That's what basically I was like, you've been absent, and it was during the time where I needed her friendship in that time, and I was trying to express that, but instead I was met with like, girl, fuck you even more. That's how

I felt like. Her response was, yeah, No. The reason I asked about okay, was it new or do you guys have a lot of history together is because a lot of times, when we've been friends with somebody for a while, they've seen enough of our character to be able to absorb how we deliver things. Now. That doesn't mean we can take advantage and talk to them any kind of way. But if I do say something like

you know, where have you been? I haven't heard from you in like a year or whatever, they know that I'm not trying them or coming at them because they can measure that. They can weigh that against all they know of me. Sometimes for newer friends, they don't have that context. So if I say something a certain way and they don't like it or whatever, they were trying to fill in the gap because they're like, they don't

have enough context. They don't know me like that yet, so they don't realize that, yeah, I may have said it kind of harsh, but it's really because the way I am, that's how I'm trying to tell you that I missed you, like I wish I could have saw you more over the past year. And that's my way of communicating it. And so a lot of times too, when we bring up conflict for the very first time, and you know, that's tricky, like if you're if you're

cool with a girl, it's easy. You feel like, man, we are so in sync, and the first time she does something that rubs you the wrong way, sometimes you're like, Okay, how do I bring this up here? Because we've never done this before. It's always fun with us. How do I suddenly tell her that wasn't cool? Because I don't know her style yet. I don't know if she's gonna

be sensitive. I don't know if she's going to throw this back at me, And so it's always it feels like a risk the first time you bring it up with a new friend, something that's not exactly so pleasant, and some for a lot of us, have to make

her break moment. You know, see, I I never even consider that, Like I don't even consider like, how do I approach this and maybe that's something I should do more of, Like I just approach it the way I know how, which is very directed for it, like you don't ever have to worry about how I'm feeling or what you see. That's the thing. Also now that depends

on how you're communicating with them, like the technology. If you're just talking to them verbally, they can understand your demeanor how you feel when you're set talking, but via text, you leave it up to your reata to determine how you feel your demeanor behind the text message. So I recently had a thing. This is one of my best friends, like her birthdays like two days before mine, and we've

been friends. I want friends over problems, maybe like fifteen years maybe and we I haven't spoken her in two weeks, and bitch, if you're listening, I feel some type of ways. But whatever. And my last message to her was, Hey, when you get a moment, i'd like to um go

over this text thread. You know. She didn't even respond to that, and I still haven't spoken to her because I felt attacked via text and I I like to make sure I'm not tripping, like I'll call it hamm me all the time, like let me tell you what happened. Am I tripping before I dressed the situation with somebody else? Right? I wanna get with somebody else that knows me, knows my character to make sure I'm not the one that's tripping. We do it, we both do it. But yeah, I

haven't talked to that. I haven't spoken to that bitch, and I feel some type of way about it. And I feel like I'm always the one to reach out to my friends because I value my friendship. So whatever spat we got going on, like, I want to make sure we talked about it. We don't even have to say who's right or wrong. It's just like change behavior on both ends. You know what I'm saying. So why haven't you reached out again? Why should I? If she

ignored my last text message? And the last time, maybe ten years ago, we had an issue, I reached out and I wasn't at fault. We confirmed I wasn't at fault. She just was feeling some type of way. Why do I have to always be the friend to value the friendship more than the other person to make sure we're good. I don't feel like doing that this time. And I'm older, like I'm not. I don't. I don't smash women, so I don't really care how women feel anymore, like I'm

not women have That's what we talk about. Yes, I know what we're talking about. And women be having Some women have like really nasty attitudes, and men will deal with that. Men will deal with our attitude because they want sex from us. I don't want sex from you, so I'm not dealing with your attitude. Okay, I have never heard that before. That's very that is very interesting. But you know what I But you're saying a lot of things that I that I here pretty often. The

first thing, a couple of things. One is what you're experiencing is something called digital body language. So of course, if we see somebody in person, just like you said, then if there are arms are crossed, or they roll their eyes when we're talking to them, that's body language and we can tell like, Okay, she's upset, she's irritated. But now, so much of our lives, our friendships, relationships are online or they're on text or email, and so what we don't realize is that is body language too.

So if somebody doesn't text you for a week, you're gonna wonder, Okay, so much time has passed, you're telling me something here, or if somebody goes from texting you to emailing you, you're like, oh, shoot, she must be

serious because she said to me an email. All that stuff is body language, if she uses emojis or not, that's body language, digital body language, And so it's leaving you in a place like you're doing right now, where you're trying to make meaning of all these things because she's not being clear and it's happening via text, and

so you don't know what's going on. So that's one thing that hurts a lot of friendships, is our digital body language is communicating something that maybe we intentionally weren't doing. The second thing I think it's interesting is how you said, oh, well, you know, if she's you know, gonna wait so long or not get back to me or whatever. Sometimes we assign meaning to what people do because we don't they don't give us any answers, so we've got to fill

in the gap. And yeah, and so the fact that she hasn't responded in a week or whatever it is, you know, is leaving you to fill in the gaps, and so you can't help. But to assign meaning to it. Now you've assigned negative meaning to it, as if she's avoiding you. But I mean, all you have to do is assume because she's not communicating, and so you know, you're saying, well, why should I have to reach out again? Is true, And a lot of people feel like, Okay,

I tried. I'm not gonna, you know, kiss your butt now like I tried one time. What do you want me to deal? But it's hard because a lot of reasons women get upset is I'm doing more than her, I feel more invested. Why should I have to initiate all the time? And it's true, So you know, unfortunately, I wish your friend, you know, would get back to you or at least communicate what's going on, But we do have to make room for now. It is possible it could be a myriad of a bunch of other things.

Hopefully there's nothing else going on in her life. Hopefully it's not a phone issue. Hopefully it's none of those things. Because in the meantime, it sounds like how you're kind of growing in your frustration with her, um, but we don't know what's going on on the other side, right that's why I said, you can reach out one more time. Whatever we voted. We voted and we said reach out. We could be like, but, bit, what the fuck you ain't see my last day? That's how I would come

and see. That might be read in a nasty tone, you know, by the receiver, But I don't mean it. It's like, girl, where you at? Like, what's right? That's how I mean it. I'm not interested. No, it's it's only years. I've done it before, and this is somebody I speak to every other day, if not every day. So if we went two weeks now without speaking the stuff you were sending me via text, it's how you feel.

So why would I want to clarify anything if you don't want to, Because that's the last message I said. I'm like, hey, when you get a moment, can we discuss this text? Read please? No response to that that's not enough? Yeah? Good, good for you, because you do want to see that this person wants to reconcile and work it out as much as you do. So as soon as you start feeling like, oh I care more than you do, I can see how it will leave you right where you are. Ye. So yeah, all right,

here's another thing. I Um, so I'm in my thirties and most of my friends now actually in my like immediate you know, community are married, have kids, are in relationships, and I'm single and the only thing I have to take care of is me and a plant, and the plant is dying. So I need for new friends, like I need new friends that I can do stuff with that aren't so occupied with children and husbands. And but it's hard making friends as an adult woman. How do

you go about that? Do you have any advice on that ideal? This is actually my favorite topic. It's funny because, um, I get a lot of questions about friendships, so many different things. But if I had to rank like the top three questions, this percent would be number one is how do I make friends? Now, typically that question comes with some kind of qualifiers, so women will say, you know, how do I make friends in a new city, how do I make friends as a military wife? How do

I make friends as an introvert? And so it always comes with something like for my situation, how do I do this? But I hope that that shows us that will always be making friends. It's not weird to be in your thirties and be like, how do I do this? Because you know, a lot of us believe the lie that, oh, I should have made all my friends in high school, or I'm behind, or I should have this figured out.

You will always be having to make new friends. If you date somebody new and now you're trying to get in with his friends and figure out their girlfriends, you're always having to flex the muscles. So it's normal for us to have to figure it out because we're gonna have to do it multiple times. When it comes to making friends as an adult and during a pandemic, it does get a little tricky. Um, but it's totally possible. I hate to sound like a life coach, but some

of it does start with our mindset. I do have women who believe they don't have enough time for it, or they believe that, um, it's too late for them because of their age or whatever life season. And the problem is, if in the back of your mind you secretly believe that you're not going to make new friend for whatever reason, it is going to impact the way you engage with people when you get an opportunity because you don't believe it's even going to turn into something

you believe year behind. So the first thing is to actually believe the fact that you can make friends at any time for any reason. You don't have to have a certain swag or a certain age or whatever. You can make friends any time. So a couple of different things you can do to like start making friends like today. The first thing I say is is to start with who you know. And a lot of us will say, oh, I need to make new friends, and we're saying that to me, and I need to meet new people. Those

are two different things. Because for a lot of us, we have a lot of women in our circle currently who we have written off for whatever reason. She's too young, she's too loud, she's too you know, I'm an entrepreneur, she works nine five. We have all these reasons. We've dismissed women you already know who have potential. I can't drink as much as this is one friend. I wanted to be her friend, but I can't keep to work.

I could drink with you, and she's thinking, and maybe she's thinking like and she's too much of a lightweight. This is not gonna work, you know. So m yeah, So a lot of us, we have a lot of women in our network already mutual friends who we see at parties all the time. We see the same girl, you know, And so the first thing I like to suggest is always start with who you already have. And I know we want to know, like how do I

meet new people? But who are the women who you thought to yourself like, man, she seems really cool or she's really funny. Who are those women who are already in your circle? Why have you not yet initiated friendship with them? What are the excuses you've made for why, oh, well she is more my other friend's friend, or well she I don't know. We don't really talk like that. Could you try, you know, sending a d M about the latest post that she wrote instead of giving another

general comment. And there's like two d other comments, so your stays in stand out. Can you slide in her damns and be like, oh my god, your last message like so resonated with me and then ask a question. But it puts me more top of mind, and I don't get kind of blended in with the other people who commented. It's a little bit different. Um, could you do something where a lot of us who work from

home and we're in meetings all day long. You know, research tells us that most people meet their friends at work because you tend to make friends with people who you are exposed to the most. So that's why people tend to make friends with their abers and with their coworkers, because you're spending forty hours a week there. Um, it tells us that you are twice as likely to make friends with somebody who's physically in close proximity to you just because they're there. So that's the case. How do

I make that work to my advantage? So I know, sometimes at work we're like, I'm not trying to be friends with anybody at work, and there's definitely a way

to go about it. But if you're in meetings all day, why not at the next meeting that you have be especially attentive to anybody who shares a good idea, they say something funny, they ask a good question, and then send them an email after and be like, oh man, um, thank you for asking that question during the meeting today because I was thinking it but I didn't want to say it. So, you know, perhaps to you for asking it,

that's it. But all I'm doing is showing her like I'm interested and Normally we reserve that for guys, like, oh, let me reach out to him and show him I'm interested. But how does another woman know that you're you're interested in maybe befriending her being kind of cool unless we make it known. But we're still concerned about looking like a lamb, looking desperate, looking like because that's what my best friends thought, like, let you tell your friend story.

Fig girl in high school. All right, this is before we had all right, I'm about to give back till before you lean. We couldn't have phones. We couldn't have phones in high school. Yes, before I was in UM. I wrote her. She was new and I wrote her a letter and I passed it up to her and I was like, Oh, what's your name, what school you came from? Blah blah blah, And she was like, who is the not k She was looking around the room,

like who the fox sent me a note? And then she was like, it's a bitch that sent me this. And she thought I was the lesbian. She thought I was hitting on her, but I was just trying to make friends with her. And we've been the best friends ever since twelfth grade. So right that it does work, and you know, what that's so okay, that's so interesting because I mean, I know we used the word romance for you know, romantic relationships, but we don't romance our

friends enough. And I mean that by like pursuing our friends, like letting you know, like sending you a card, sending you something in cash. I'll be like, get a coffee before your job interview today, like romancing our friends pursuing her, And it sounds weird, but if it happened to you,

you'd be like, wow, that's amazing. A friend like says I was thinking about you or I'm sending you something you feel really good, But we're so used to doing that with you know, the men in our lives, and so it is weird or how she responded like, oh what are you trying to do? We are on high alert because we're like, well, this is weird, but it's

not weird. You know, it shouldn't be weird. Um, And so you know, I know, I say, research says a lot, but it's because I'm a nerd, and so tells us that, Um, we tend to like people who like us, and so literally, so we think we're so complicated and we have all these layers. We like people who like us, So think about it. If you hang out, like with a group of women, like let's say we all hang out tonight and tomorrow I text you, I'm like, oh my gosh, um,

Tiffany said you are so funny. She cannot stop talking about how funny you are. You suddenly really like Tiffany because she thinks you're great, and so we like people who like us. And so if that's the case, again, I always say, how can we make the research work for us? If that's the hat than to make friends. I need to be more verbal when I find a girl I like and saying so, now that doesn't mean nerdy. You need to in a corny way be like I

like you. But how do I say to her like, man, it's so nice to finally meet another woman who likes x y Z the same way I do. I'm kind of signaling to her like I think you're cool because she kind of will think that too, And I just made it okay to talk about it. So could I say, so, Tiffany, you trying to give me? Please? Okay? What just joking? I just I'm joking for second right now. I'm sorry. However, you want to interpret that research however you want to interpret.

I'm just joking. So Daniel has a friendship coaching right on your Your website is better Female Friends dot Com. I'm pretty sure to say that is not in her damn coaching package. Tell us about the coking the coaching you do. You got of hair it anyway, but you're

you're really good. Go ahead, No, I appreciate you. It's it's funny because, um if when I first started, I'll admit I was a little embarrassed to tell people because I was actually a high school English teacher for six years, and you know, and I was working with juniors and seniors. So between classes, you know, they're talking about their drama or after school they'd come to me and be like, oh my gosh, you know, and so I was like, oh, man, you know, I'm coaching them through it. At the time,

I didn't realize that's what I was doing. And so then when I left that and I got into you know, marketing and public relations, then I thought, I'm leaving that drama behind because those routine girls. Now I'm working with adult women, I probably won't see that drama anymore. And then I realized, oh, okay, you know, we have our issues too, And it showed me that in every stage of womanhood, we're trying to figure out our relationship with other women, and every stage it doesn't matter how old

you are. And so that's when I was like, man, I wonder if like coaching is a thing. And so I went on Amazon and I looked up friendship books at the time, and I was just curious, and everything that came up in the search results was for children, and I thought, Oh, that's what we think of friendship, that kids need help, But if you're grown, you shouldn't

need help. And so I would argue, why is it that if we need help with our business, we'll get a business coach, and people like, wow, that's so great. If you are having issues in your relationship, will be like, oh, I need to go to counseling, you know, with my man. Oh that's that's so awesome. Good for you guys. But if I'm having issues with women constantly, then it's weird to go and get help. And so research here it is.

Research tells us that the single greatest factor that determines your life satisfaction is not your income or your marital status. It's the quality of your relationships. If that's the case, then why are we not making it normal to say, hey, I keep having issues with friends. I'm having an issue with a current friend. Help me out here. Why is that not normal? If research is telling us that's the most important thing that's going to make you feel satisfied

with your life is your relationships. And so that's why I kind of got into it as a coach. You know, all work with women who have every need from trying to make friends in a new city. Um, they're going through a friendship breakup, and they can't figure out why they're not over it yet it's been three years, um

or there. They want to have a hard conversation with a friend, but they don't really know how to bring it up, or when they bring it up, they're too harsh and they're like, Okay, I don't want to push her away. I don't want to come at her too hard. Some of us name yeah, and so I can really help with whatever your friendship issue is. But a lot of women feel like, who am I supposed to talk

to about this? Because if you talk to your man, sometimes he'll say something like, well, then just don't talk to her anymore, and you're like, okay, well it's more competent. You don't like her for anyway. Yeah, guys, guys be like yeah, and they do, but they do, they do exactly, but we get that stereotyped, so they don't get it. Your parents feel like they're a little too far removed from it. And sometimes you feel like if you talk to other friends about it, like you know, am I gossiping?

Or is this going to get back to her? So it's like you don't sometimes feel safe to talk to somebody about your friendship UM. And so it's it's interesting because a lot of women will bring to me things that are very private and feel like they don't have anybody else to talk to you. And the last thing I'll say is, you know a lot of people think if a girl's going to a friendship coach, she must be like socially awkward and she doesn't know how to

talk to people. But what's crazy to me is most of the women I work with are um at the top of their careers. They're funny, they're the coolest girl at the party, and they're coming to a friendship coach because maybe they have a lot of friends, but they don't feel connected to anybody, or they you know, make friends really easily, but they're in a new city and

they want to do things differently this time. So a lot of times, the woman I'm working with is charismatic and smart and cool, but she's very intentional about wanting better friendships. Do you find it easier to make friends with black women or white women or others for me personally? Or women are personally personally? Um? And wait, wait in general too. I want to hear what other people say, because I have a theory about why it's how hard

sometimes for black women specifically to make friends. Yeah, okay, I'm anxious to hear that. Yes, you know, I will say I. Um, A lot of people in like the friendship experts psychology space are white women. And so when I do have a lot of clients who come to me, they're women of color, and they'll say, like, it's just nice to talk to somebody who gets it, because I need to talk to you about my white friend who tried me and I don't think I can be friends

with her anymore. Or when everything was happening with George Floyd and people were sharing their opinions. They were like, I can't do this anymore, Like I don't have time anymore for white people. I have to explain stuff too, or she was my girl, but then she says something crazy, I can't look at her the same. And so even trying to figure out into racial friendships is something it's like, how do you talk to a white professional about something

like that? UM? For me personally, you know my experiences. I was raised in a predominantly white, you know, suburb. Then when I went to college, I started to see some things and my eyes were open and and learn more about myself and you're learning things about microaggressions. And I had even more black friends and I couldn't see my white friends the same once I got more black friends, and so woke. Yeah, I know, I was trying to avoid that word because that word is everywhere, but pretty

much when my eyes are open, okay. And so it's interesting because at the end of the day, you should be able to bring all of yourself to your friendship racist side. I should be able to bring all myself and I found too often and I have you know, some white friends, but we had to put a lot of work into it to be friends because I'm bringing my whole self and being a black woman's a part of my whole self. So I'm not gonna not have conversations because it makes you uncomfortable. Um, for a lot

of black women were already on all day. I'm not gonna be on with you. I'm not gonna explain little things. I don't have the patience to to explain why you can't say that thing. There's no patience. And our friendships should feel like home. So if when I come to you and I'm trying to relax and you're supposed to be a refuge and I have to be on or

explain things to you culturally, it feels exhausting. And so do I have white friends, yes, Um, but you know a lot of I think black women gravitate to a black women because we automatically know that there's going to be some kind of shared experience. And it's nice to just be able to look across the room at somebody and not have to say anything and be like did you and they're like okay, and you didn't even exchange words, and it's just like a whole other coal. So you know, Okay,

hold that thought one second. Let's pay some bills. So what But what's your thought on on making friends and and black women and all that. What are your thoughts? So I know you have one. I was raised by a single black well I would say my mom was. She wasn't a single parent, well a parent that's single basically not necessarily a single parent because my dad was around. But I feel like, um, black women particularly um always feel like they have to warn their daughters about other

black women. You know what I'm saying, Like, do you kind of feel like you can't even trust This is my experience. I don't know about y'all. You feel like you can't even trust other black women until this day, my mama she likes to say how she doesn't have any friends, and it's it's I don't even trust women who don't have friends or have a track record of having successful friendships with other Black women are with women period?

Like feel like there's a problem with you, right why you don't ever have friends or haven't had any friends. So that's that's my theory. Nelcie and I come from the household when my grandmother didn't trust nobody black, white, Mexican Asian. She always had a theory for every race on why you should not trust me, Like, yeah, she's gonna tell your business. It was equal opportunity. They're gonna tell your business. Don't tell them everything. They're gonna tell

your business. They're gonna try to get your man. It's just all these negative things surrounding friendships. Um, and I love women like so she probably has had some traumatic experiences herself with friendships and that's why she views it. Yeah, that's this is so interesting. About a week ago, I saw this TikTok that went viral. I think it has almost ai milion views, and it's a girl saying, um that she's realizing that if a girl can't be a good friend to her, it's because she had a bad mom.

And I just thought, oh, this is interesting and has thousands of comments, and so, you know, I want to speak to that soon on my own podcasts and things like that. But I was thinking, Oh, the ways that our mother's shape our approach and attitude to friendship today. It's things they say, it's things they do, it's did they have friends? If not, then I didn't have a healthy model of what having a girlfriend supposed to even look like because my mom didn't have people over to

the house. So there's all these things that affect our approach. Now I'm not a psychologist, so I'm gonna stay in my lane. I do think it's interesting that you know her her issues were with black women. To me, that just shows me that her experiences were with black women.

So if I had three black women I called friends and they all betrayed me, and then I'm going to pull away some generalization about black women can't be trusted, so I could see how it put you on high alert and your friendships of wait a second, my mom

told me this would happen. So there's a phrase for in psychology, but I don't know if it's but it's a subscribed But it's almost like if I think that this thing is going to happen, then I suddenly see it everywhere, and then I'm like, see, I knew it, But like, well, yeah, because you were anticipating that a black woman is going to screw you over, you know that you don't realize that a white women can screw

you over. And it almost almost I'm gonna draw a connection here is like these black uh, these black men you hear talking about, why prefer a white woman because blah blah blah, And we're like, what and she doesn't have an attitude because you think an attitude is exclusive to a black woman. It's kind of the same thing. So if we're like, well, these kind of women have these issues, that's not exclusive to her. That's just people, you know, or women who are like I can't do

female friends because they they'll talk about you. Yeah, that's not exclusive to women. A male friend will talk about you when you walk away too, you know. And so we have to kind of figure out, Wait a second, what complexes or stereotypes do I have that are actually getting in the way of me having the kind of

friendships that I want. M Yeah, I mean it's still to to this day she does, like if I want to talk to her about something that transpired between me and a friend, she'll be like, well, I told you, And I don't subscribe to that because I really cherished my friendships, you know what I'm saying, even when my homegirl like I might hit her ass up next month, but I don't know, right, But I still I still wouldn't.

I don't easily discard people, and I don't think of myself as someone that you can just easily discard either, you know. So I don't. I don't subscribe it. I think it's very healthy for women to have friends, and I feel like I make friends pretty easy. I steal friends too, Like I'm friends with people who the two people aren't friends anymore, but I'm still friends with both of them, you know what I'm saying. So, even moving to new cities, I've always been I mean, women in

the club and not picking them up. Just I've met Like when I moved to St. Louis, I met one of my friends, I met the notes, I met my first friend in the club, and then I met her friends. You know. So now I'm so friends with her and I'm so friends with the other one, and they aren't friends anymore. So it's just I don't know, see, all right, I feel like I have a ton of acquaintances. All right, I have a ton of acquaintances, Like a million of acquaintances,

is right. But I'm like, I got so many green bubbles on my instant story, right, all these green bubbles, but a lot of these women, like I don't see them as my friend, you know, I see them as acquaintance. Yeah, we're cool. But I can't call you and share my truth. I can't. We can go party, we can go drink, we can share memes and ship like that. But let's talk about I'm gonna challenge you for a second though. But but what do you think that's about? Why do

you why do you think they aren't more meaningful? I don't know. I don't know, like I don't feel like um like, even with them, I don't feel like when they're doing things that are more intimate, I'm included, you know. Interesting. Okay, so there's this um This concept is called like affrontimacy, a triangle and an other friendship expert, her name is

Shasta Nelson. She made this up. I'm wanting to picture like a triangle, right, and her idea is that if you want a deep friendship, it has to have three things, and so she has each of the things written on each side of the triangle. At the bottom of the triangle is positivity. So she argues that if every time we get together it's something negative, then we're probably not going to be close because all we do is complain,

vent whatever every time we're together. Now, obviously, do we do that sometimes in friendships, yes, But if out of our last ten interactions, nine of them were just talking about just the horrible things, then we're not going to be close because all we do is just have negative interactions. So the first thing you need for for closeness is positivity. The second thing is consistency. So I know it's popular right now to say, like, oh, I don't have to talk to my best friend for like ten years and

we just pick up where we left off. Okay, I'm sure for some people that's the thing, but if anything, you had to kind of earn that to get there, you know. But like, I know, there's this new popular thing about low maintenance friends. I see that a lot, like, oh, I'm a low maintenance friend, and I get at that, But I don't know if I support that, because I feel like it's you being afraid to ask for what

you want. I don't know if anybody is comfortable with I only talk to you sometimes, and I never know when I'm gonna talk to you, and and so you have to have consistency, meaning I regularly see you or talk to you regularly. Somehow I cannot possibly be close to you if I'm talking to you once every three months, trying to get to know you. It just doesn't work like that. And then the third thing that you need

to have deep connections is vulnerability. And I know a lot of us when we hear that word, we picture you know, you're crying your eyes out, or you're sharing some secret that happened to you when you were eight. And that's like on the far end of vulnerability, like a level ten. But vulnerability just means I can put myself in a position where this person will possibly reject me, which feels scary, and for those of us who want control,

we don't want to do that. But that's literally what is required to feel close is I've been vulnerable with you a couple of times, and vice versa. And so vulnerability can be as simple as let's say I find a new friend group and they go to brunt every weekend and they say, all right, Danielle, it's your turn to pick where we go to brunch next weekend. And I might find myself thinking like, oh my god, I don't want to pick like a lame spot. I don't want to pick a spot that they think is stupid.

That is vulnerability because there's a chance that they're gonna reject my idea or think it was stupid, and so that is vulnerability too. It's just like a level two it's not a level ten vulnerability where I'm self disclosing really personal things. But that is vulnerability too. So the reason I asked why you feel like you may not be having as much depth as you want. We have to pinpoint which of those things is missing. Would you

say that any of your interactions it lacks positivity. Would you say that you meet with the acquaintances in your life very irregularly, so y'all can't find a rhythm to get closed. Or would it be because you guys do surface level things and so it never gets deep and it's like the cycle. One of those things or maybe more of those things is missing. So what is it? What is So it's always positive energy over here? Right?

So I'm always a good time, right, but I probably don't show up a lot, right, So I do get invited ship, and I just stay in the house a lot, right, So I don't show up a lot, And then when I do show up, it's just we're talking about TikTok's and Instagram ship, and uh, this is very surface level ship. It's never I mean I pick a restaurant, I don't give a funk. If you don't like it, then you don't eat, like they don't. I don't feel like, you know,

that's vulnerable for me. But um yeah, maybe I don't allowed to be more than surface a lot of times because a lot of us will say like, I can't be close to them, and it's like, but do you feel comfortable trying? Have you tested their capacity to accept your vulnerability? And so it's almost like what came first, the chicken or the egg kind of thing, because a lot of us are waiting for them to demonstrate emotional safety that I'd be safe here. But then we have

to give him a chance to show it. So I have to give you something to see if you are, you know, open minded and things like that for me to see like, okay, we can do that here. So we have to test it though, So how I mean, how do you are you open to that? See, that's

another thing. I don't know if I'm even because sometimes I'd be like these bitches is cool, But I don't even know if I fought with y'all like that, So you know I'll be that I'll be more reserved like and then I'll be saying stuff like they're much younger than me. I don't know if we have a lot in common in that way, But aren't you looking for

men who don't have kids or husband and all that stuff? Yeah, so they always much younger than me, you know, so I feel like I might be more mature girl childish? Hell what you talk about? Yeah, but I mean just like you're right, You're right, I am a childish just fu, but you are not. I mean, the situation you're describing is actually super common. About being women in their thirties not married with kids is actually super common right now. You know, research is showing that more women are living

alone than ever before. So because we have the means to do it, we don't depend on a guy to house us. Until of us are living alone. A lot of women are putting kids off until later, like they're choosing to not have kids yet they're putting off marriage. And so there's actually more and more women in the

pool that you're describing. So I know that it is more common to find a woman in her thirties and she's married with kids, but there are a lot more women than they're used to be who are in the thirties and do not have kids and are not married. So they're out there. They're out there. Oh yeah, congratulations on a new baby. Oh thank you. Yes, I don't. I don't know how people have more than one kid. It is crazy over here. Even before I got on this call, I looked at my husband. I was like,

keep that baby quiet. I'm on an interview. So it's it's crazy over here, but but it's a blessing. Yes, how did your baby? My son is three and then my daughter is five weeks. Oh wow, you just fresh? Yeah pretty much. Yeah, yeah, I can walk now. So yeah, it's it's it's it's going good. God, bless your girl. I'm dead by getting another dog. That's what I think. I'm about to get another dog, and I'm gonna have to throw that plan out and get another plant. The

plant is I don't know what I did wrong. I was wading it else, I'm talking to it like I don't know. I feed it like you probably. It said give it three cubes of ice once a week. That's what I did. And now the motherfucker's just looking real saying, hell, what kind of planet is that that takes ice? It was a money tree, I got it out of hopefully you're doing it wrong ship. That's why money tree. Yeah, man, see that get you say, two women listening, if you have plant tips, you need to slide in my d

M and help me out because I'm struggling. And then they're like, oh my god, I have tips and then you kind of filter through there, you know. Yeah, if y'all tell me a plant that I can't kill, what's the plans of and low maintenance plants? Yes, I don't need low maintenance friends because I feel like I'm more of a medium maintenance friends. I wouldn't say hi, but you know the post that I hate those posts that say, uh, nobody checked on me? Y'all are aware those what that's

probably what people mean by having low maintenance friends? Like, at what point do you not think that everybody, including you and your friends are just going through ship? Right, so somebody doesn't hit you up? Like did you hit them up to see? I would be mad about that because I feel like I'm supportive, Like, once I value your friendship, I'm going to be supportive, I'm gonna hit you up. I'm going to like, are you good? If

I know you're going through something. I'm going to offer whatever way I can help, but then I need that in return sometimes, like I need to know that you know, when I'm going through it, I hear from you too, you know, and I think something because even in the midst of you going through some ship, I might be going through some ship, but I'm still here for you, you know, I guess. So that's one of my New

Year's was I hate saying New Year's resolutions. So that's one of the things I want to work on, is affirming people one thing, because people always affirm semi affirmations and stuff like I don't always do it because I'm not that thoughtful, you know. I want to be more thoughtful, like damn me, it's thoughtful like and stuff. I love her like she going and those states, and I just don't not because I don't value our friendship. Art that

I don't value her. I just I don't know in my selfish m possibly I just don't be thinking about this, just like I'm sorry, but but you are so are very selfless too. So I've seen you do like some hugely selfless ship like ship. I would never do like this woman took a homeless lady into her house and let her live there a year, a whole woman. She

never don't know that ain't her cousin Auntie. This is a complete stranger that she would see leaving the gym, and she started talking to this woman and then took her in her house and let her live there. Renfrey for an entire gonna I'm gonna show up for big things, you know what I'm saying, like little things, because I don't fret about little things. So if my friend never buys me anything, I'm not gonna but I'm gonna show up when you have something. I'm gonna be the last

person to leave and help you clean up. Like that's that's how I uh, friendship. That's so, that's so good because everybody's heard of like the whole love language concept and like give love, how you receive love and all that, but this is so good. So even hearing y'allse differences right now, like, oh, I'm the type you know a lot of little thoughtful things. I want to send them your way and for you to say, like, yeah, I don't really operate like that, but I show up when

it counts in a really big way. We all do. Friendship differently. And I think the biggest thing is I have a lot of women who, you know, when they're talking about why they're unsatisfied with the friend, it's like, Oh, she didn't show up for me. She doesn't show up for me. And the first question I always ask is what is showing up for you look like? And forcing

you to define it? And then I asked, does she know that because we're penalizing each other for not showing up, but she has no idea that that's what you need, Like, Oh, I didn't know that you like me to send you lots of little thoughtful things. I thought it mattered that I stayed to help you clean up after the party, you know, And so I didn't know that you know that that's meaningful to you, and so that if you don't get it, you're making assessments about our friendship. I

didn't know that that's even what you need. Um. And so this is a perfect example of how we all do friendship differently. But I think the most important next step is what are you doing with that information? A lot of us were like, no, that's just what I need. I need friends who can do it this way. How important is it to you? To receive it that way, and if it is, did you tell her that? But we can't keep penalizing each other for things that they

don't have access to that information. So I didn't even know you're upset about it. I didn't know you need that. You never told me, you know. And so basically the same way we treat men in relationships, we kind of do it to our friends. So you expect him to read your mind the same way men do. They expect that's read of minds too. But if you don't tell a person like this is how I want to be treated, they don't know, or we're scared that it makes us look like demanding or biteating or a need, so we

don't say it. But again it goes back to this secret belief that friendship should be easy. Um, there's a research study that it asked a bunch of women, do you believe that making friends and friendship should be easy?

Or do you believe that it should require work? And they followed those women for five years, and the women who said I believe that friendship should be easy, we're reporting greater feelings of loneliness than the women who said, well, I anticipate friendship will kind of be a lot of work. And so it's our expectations. If you're going around cutting people off because you know, she did that, she did that, or I shouldn't have to have a whole conversation she

should know. I shouldn't have to all that. You're gonna find yourself starting from scratch over and over with new people. You know, I kind of stay away from women who always have like so my friends that I have lost are people who tend to always have different friends, Like

I have lifelong friends and relationships like people. When I meet somebody, I'm usually their friends forever, right, But the friends that I have lost are people who you always see them with different groups of people, like they just always have a new bestie. I'm not that way, you know what I'm saying. That's what I was trying to Yes, and they don't like girl, you just add water and made an instant friend. Get out of here that it's not your friend, Like I'm your friend. That is not

your friends. That's gonna say, who is? Who's somebody friends? You don't get to tell somebody who they freend night. That's your friend because we befriend right now now, she's your friend this week. She ain't gonna be your friend next week. And you can't tell her your baby daddy business, like that's not your friend, get out of here. But that's how you been. You start friendships like you gotta it's gotta start somewhere, right. But if they always meet

that just dad water friends is good, I'm stealing that. Yeah, it's hard because well, that's kind of the tricky thing about friendship is we're all defining it differently, right, Like I'm like, oh, yeah, that's my friend, but some people don't use that word loosely and they're just like, yeah, I know, or we're cool. Other people are like, oh yeah that's my friend. That's my friend and they met a week ago, and so we I mean, there's no rules. We're all out here using the same language, but we

have different ideas of what we're talking about. And so you know, I'm the type that you know, I do kind of try to be mindful of how I use it. Or I'll say like, oh, yeah, yeah we're cool or yeah I know she is, but I don't bring myself to say like, yeah, we're friends, because that means something different. Um, And so yeah, it's interesting that Some women are just like, oh, if I really like her and and we like hanging out,

that's my friend. Others are like, no, I require a little bit more, um, and so I can see how you see that. And then a lot of women we need to be careful of what we call fast friendships, where you just are so caught up in chemistry. They're like, Okay, now you're my friend, and if you want to use that language for her, that's fine. Um. But we have to be cautious of when we get really really close, really really fast, because it's just like with the romantic

relationship over And that's why I say acquaintance. She's an acquaintance of mine. That's what I say. I don't call nobody like it take a lot for me to be like, oh, yeah, that's my friend fish. I don't know you like that. But what I so, I I do hair and I treat all my clients like friends and family, right, I

treat them really, I treat them like that. I want I try to build that report because when you sit in a chair, you share things like I don't know if it's something about the energy transfer, but women opened up to me in a way that they wouldn't at a bank, right if they were coming to get their money from the bank. They're not telling the bank telling all that ship, right. So I treat them like friends and family, and some of them do become friends and family, right.

But then sometimes I feel like they try to take advantage of that treatment and they want special treatment, like they think they can show up an hour late to the appointment, or I'm supposed to work after I'm off because they track slipped out and they need me to stay, you know, like, and I end up falling out. Once I said a boundary. Once I said a boundary with a bit is fuck you, And then I'd be like really mad, like I'll fight you when I see you,

just because of how good I treated you. I've always treated you so good. And the one time I said a boundary and say no now as fuck me. So I have a lot I have that going on. I don't know how to have healthy boundaries within that. They don't know how to have hell sounds like they don't. It sounds like you have very reasonable boundaries, like you can't be asking me to stay after hours, like that's

very reasonable. I'm wondering if one reason for that is if the relationships started with you being of service like doing their hair, then then it's kind of transactional. Now, of course, obviously that can turn into real friendships. But if the way that we started being friends or knowing each other is you're doing a service for me and then we become cool, then they might be kind of testing it because they it's not out of like genuine friendship.

It's out of like, oh, I'm cool with you know my hair stylists, And so sometimes it's kind of tricky. That's why it's tricky making friends at work because at the heart of it, you have to wonder, what is this like a transactional thing, like we're using each other to climb the ladder, or are we like actual friends which requires me to honor your boundaries and we compromise for each other and it's totally different. But yeah, that's

very telling. If you have women who are you know who they hear you say what you need or what you won't do and try to push anyway, I mean, that's just yeah. I have that. I have lost like two people that I considered that I considered my real friend, not an acquaintance, like I consider my friend that like I don't want to be her friend or more because she wouldn't do my hair if I thirty, Like, what the fuck? It was never my friend to begin with a bit snappy when I say, like I'm joking, I don't.

I don't believe in violence, y'all, and you'd be the main one I'm saying that says, uh, we talk back. That's not condoned violence. I don't. I don't really mean that. I don't. I'm I'm growing up. I'm not gonna hit you, right, but my feelings be heard, so i'd be wanting to slap the ship I bitch. I ain't gonna lie, but

just because my feelings hurt, that's just how it comes out. Yeah, that's disappointing because they obviously should be able to say like, oh, of course, I don't expect you to work longer than normal. I don't expect you know. So Yeah, that is people who I would wonder what the rest of their friendships

look like. Let me say like that, if they don't see the problem with pushing you past what you said you don't want to deal, then it would just make me wonder if they just respect, like just in general, right, y'all also look, so this is another thing we can add to our Knew Years resolutions. For two, we are making more meaningful friendships. I like, I want to be surrounded by millionaires. That way I would never be broken in. Like, I know I can borrow money from my friends, they

can borrow money from me. Like those are real life goals. Um, I don't care what how much money people got. I just want genuine people who I can love and they can love me back with my flaws because I come with flaws, right, and they don't discard of me because of them, you know, like they're willing to work through

any difference with me. And likewise, you know, I don't expect people to come perfect, and if they was perfect, they probably wouldn't want to be my imperfect friend, right, Like why my friends with this bitch it's not as perfect as me. I love that you said that, because that's true, right is as I hear a lot of women like, oh, well she's to this or she did this, and they don't have much tolerance um for shortcomings of friends, Like we'll say it, but then when it happens, we're like, A,

I don't know, I'm not feeling it or whatever. And I think we forget that well, a lot of the friends you currently have, they're making accommodations for you. And I mean, I think one reality we don't acknowledge is like, you know, that friend who irritates you or has that thing, she has that for you too, Like she loves you, but she thinks some of the things you do are

really obnoxious too. And so if we're walking around kind of in the critics seat and we can pinpoint everybody else's shortcoming, I think a reality check is yeah, and the people in your life are doing that for you too. I think maybe that humbles us and makes us see the importance of, you know, not looking for the perfect friend who totally gets us and never disappoints us. That's just not realistic. Mm hmm. Yeah. I remember one year my best friend tore my house up. She like knocked

it off the counter. She was so mad at me, But I was like, I was like picking, pick and pick and pick and picking. And I didn't realize I was doing it because we were drunk. And I realized it when all my ship was broke on the floor. I was like, oh, I went too far, didn't I so what you call her bat at something because that that I'll funk your house up. You call me fat now I can knock her fast. She had some perfect figure that would be the only thing that makes that

would make me mess somebody house up. That's the way I'm talking about me. I was just barking orders at everybody. I think that's how I was. I was, you know, I got a very aggressive personality and instead of saying can you do this please, or just like we need to go and we do this, and yeah, I was just very being very tammy. And she had had enough that day and she showed me her forearm. She took her forearm and cleared my whole fucking island off. Are

you still friends? Best friends? That's still my best friend in the world. Maybe abusing each other? No, No, that is the one time in our entire friendship, the one I wrote the note in the twelfth grade, we thought, I was yeah, yeah her so yeah, we ended up. She called me that same night. It didn't even go on that long, Like we didn't even fight that long, and you know, we made up and she's like, I'm she sent me a cash app because this wasn't that

long ago. That's how you know cash She sent me a cash app for all the stuff that she broke, and I apologize for being tammy and we made up. That's the Yeah, don't come nobody. I ain't saying it's just come in my house and break my ship. There, figure out to fight. Let's talk, because it won't go the same way for you that it went for her. Like, you know, it's the last thing I want to talk about.

I don't like friends that tell their significant others my business, you know what I'm saying, Like, that's a problem I feel like I have with some people because I've had a friend who I would be on the phone her and somehow you got me on speaker phones and now your man is chiming in on what the hell are we talking about? So how does he even know what

we're talking about? Yeah, I just anticipate that. Why though, I guess you need to ask if you you need to ask a friend first, if you meet a woman's like, hey, are you a chatty patty? Like, do you feel like you have to tell your man everything? Because because I don't like that. Yeah, yeah, that's it almost feels like one of those girl code things. Like, we shouldn't have to say this, but it goes to how you you do have to say things because we're operating under two

different realities of what's okay. For a lot of women, they feel like when they tell you, oh, obviously I'm gonna tell anybody. A lot of them believe that the spouse doesn't count because they believe in their relationship. Of course, tell you, I'll say, don't repeat this. Yeah, yeah, I'll say that, and then she she will be like one of my friends. She will be like, girl, i ain gonna tell nobody. But then now he's commenting in the

middle of our conversation, what the hell. So maybe that's where we have to be like, don't tell anybody, and I'm talking even your man. Don't tell Travis either. You know, sometimes we have to say specifically, no way. At least later we can say I told you specifically, But now he won't let you come out to play because he's calling me a whole because you don't told him my

dad business. And that's why you don't. That's why you don't. Yeh, Travis, No everything though, that's a lot of times, you know, just have to be prepared for Travis to know. That's how I feel like. If I don't, if it's something that I feel like, Travis don't need to know, I'm not gonna tell her either, right, That's how I just feel like I have to operate because Travis is gonna be like man, Timmy be on that they'd be laying in a bit, Travis, No, all my business, your life

like a TV show for them. But I've also been that friend, though I also have sad with my nigga and was like, let me tell you what Ashley just did. It is crazy. I'm not gonna tell anything that's too incriminating. No, I won't tell anything that's like like wow, wow, but I have I can't even sit here in line and say I haven't done it. You know that I haven't shared with my man when I had a man, and I ain't got no man now, so you ain't got nothing to worry about. But I've done. This is really fun.

I like women man, you know, in the friendship manner, and I like them in both friend is sometime more it's only drunk, though only drunk once we're sober the next day. I ain't even gonna try you like that, and don't try me either. Okay, yeah, you're gonna have to make that cure. You don't have to make that clear. Yeah, this is good. And you know what um when you know a lot of us are familiar with like the fight or flight concept, like when you get stress or

you're gonna fight or flight. When they did that research study again, they did it with women, and they found that women have an extra set of responses that we do when we're stressed, and it's called tend or befriend. So when we get stressed sometimes we'll literally go to other women to talk in the stress. And the research study found that when women get together and their stressed and we talk and we mingle and we try to help each other through, it produces oxytocin, which literally decreases

our stress. And so I mean there's biology to this, you know what I'm saying. So that's why when you have a really good talk with your friend or something like this where we just chatted and you're like, man, I'm among other women that felt really good. There really is something to that. And so I always joke, you know when your man's like, oh, what are you gonna go and tell all your friends? It's like Yeah, that's

exactly what I'm gonna do because it really works. Yea, yeah, a little listeners know where they can find you at all the details. Yeah, so, um I'm on Instagram of course, it's my full name um Or on Instagram at friend Forward, and I also have a weekly podcast also called friend Forward, and that's all we talk about. And then everything else is at Better Female Friendships dot Com and the whole thing is just dedicated to helping you create and maintain

better friendships with other women. Totally platonic, damny, no nothing else. So okay, it's not a dating website. Y'all can't pick up no bitches at freend Sport, all right, No, No, we gotta do it. We gotta do a dumb bage story, dumb based stories, because we've all been a dumb bitch at least once or twice. I don't know if you listen to our show, but we have this segment call dumb bag Story. And it's not that you're a dumb

bitch or anything. It's just you had a dumb bach moment. Right, So we've all this had a had a time where we got played by somebody, or we got cheated on or something like that. But you could do it like a friendship one you don't. It doesn't have to be with the man um um. You know. First, I'll say this is sometimes people ask me like why I'm I'm in the space and things like that, and I say, it's because I used to be a really bad friend. I think that's why I'm so good at operating now

as a coach, because lived experience. So with that being said, um, because I'm not gonna say too much, you guys put it all out there, I'm not there, okay, but I will say that I've I've had a friendship before we're um where I you know, you know, sometimes you break girl code whatever that means, or you know, we we we have rules about don't date this guy or be with this guy if if he was that whole thing, and I definitely did not honor that, and I knew

at the time that it probably would stir stuff up. And this was like years ago, but you know, you you start to justify in your head and I feel like, um, that was one of those things where you put a guy before your friend in the moment, and when things materialized and the consequences come out, you realize it was not even worth it, but you just were not thinking,

you know, clearly or you know. And so I've had some you know, I've had that moment before and it kind of strained a friendship that I really, honestly wish I still had today. But this was years ago. That was you know, Danielle one point oh, I'm Danielle three point oh. You know, so I'd like to think I learned, but maybe that would be my moment is is putting guys over friends and then not being prepared for the consequence of losing the friend. And I can admit that

that that was totally on me. That's a friendship that ended, and that was my fault. So one of your friends, that's what I heard. Wait, confused, that's what I heard, just putting guys before friends. I'll just say like that. I'll come on now, okay, So what I'm hearing is clutch my pearls. Let me clutch my pearl. Thank you so much for joining us. This was a lot of fun.

I really enjoyed this episode, and I think I got some tools because all right, the friend that I was talking about where I said that I told her she was sometime me. I'm going to revisit that friend next week and trying to like men fences because I don't miss her. You know, look at that, I'm not trying to So thank you for that. And I'm gonna I'm

not gonna be like, bitch, what's the problem. I'm gonna be like, I just want to start with letting you know that I value our friendship and I'm coming from a place of love when i have this conversation with you. Look at growth. That's good. That's good. Yeah, I know this is good. I appreciate you all having this conversation. I feel like we don't talk about this enough, and so I appreciate you being intentional about having this conversation.

And I'm sure there are people listening when been listening who needed some of the things y'all shared honestly and openly about, and so I'm glad that more of us are starting to have this kind of dialogue. Yes, my quest is Daniel Jackson. Y'all listen. So if you guys enjoyed this episode, please tune in every Thursday on the I Heart Radio Apple wherever the fun you get your podcast that we laugh it's your girl. A J. Holiday to play on Instagram and it's official. Tam Bam y'all

on Instagram, y'all follow me and listen. I love y'all and I'll be your friend. If y'all need some friends, hit us up, talk to us, send us some dumbing stories because we're always friendly when we respond to those. If you're white folks, we need some questions for asked a black friend where your black friend were already your fucking friends. So send us a message, send us a question. We love y'all. Y'all have a good one. Thanks,