Ep. 18 "Lets Talk About Sex Baby" with Dr. Donna Oriowo

Dr Oreo Woe. She's a sex therapist and we're gonna be talking to her about sex basically, so not to be confused with a sex x or a sexpert um from all she says, it's like basically kind of right, yeah, yeah, but she is also a sexpert yep. So let's get into a girl because I'm excited to know if I'm doing it right. And we're live. Hey, Dr Donna Oreo WHOA is on the show. Everybody, this is we talk back and it's a j A and Dodger. Donna is a sex therapist and she's gonna talk to us about

some we got crazy questions for you, especially Agent. So first we want to congratulate you on your double masters and your PhD. Girl Round of applause for you since yes, for real talking to us and our listeners about what motivated you to get into sex therapy. People kept telling me their business, like I need to getting in in Yeah, I'm like, people kept on telling me their business. Um. And more than that, I felt like sex should not be a taboo because I'm looking at all the people.

I'm looking like somebody had sex just so you could be here. Thanks. So I'm just like, but why are we keeping it a secrets. We celebrate pregnancies, we celebrate births, but we don't want to talk about what lived to Those things don't make any sense. I'm a pleasure over here. So just talking about sex just seemed like a natural, normal thing, especially as it relates to mental health and and talking about it with black women in particular, I have to talk about how color resum and textures and

impact their mental and sexual health. So I got into it because I feel like I in some ways I fell into it. Um. I was very much into the mental health side of things, just wanting people to live

their best life as it were, but integrated. And I saw Meet the Fockers and I was like, wait, it'sex therapy real so I went and looked it up and it was and I was like, well, all right, let me figure out where I get gonna get some more this education so that I can be prepared to do the work that people had already sort of thrust me and by giving me all they did. So if I said, Okay, I'm starting up today to have a sex therapy session,

what would like what does that consist of? Because am I gonna be so awhere like you teach me Bandana how to suck dick? Or what? What is it like? What is it look like? Yeah, because I think a lot of people confuse sex expert with a sex with sex therapists. I don't think you need any education to be well, any formal institutionalized education to be a sex expert, right, versus a sex therapist where you have to get an education, right.

I mean, honestly, it runs the gamut um depending on why you're going to sex therapy in the first place. So for some folks it's straight sex therapy looks a lot more like, Okay, we're having some issues around sex and we are trying to resolve those issues. Um. Sometimes it's high sex drive, low sex drive. Sometimes it really is just like mechanics and UM. For that, I end up, I'll refer out to a sex coach. Okay, I can teach mechanics, but that's not my lane, and I'm just

like I'm I'm stick to my lane. UM. But for sex therapy. More times when people think they need sex therapy, but that's not actually what they need. What they need is communication therapy because they don't talk to each other well. So I'm seeing UM, particularly UM couples and those in relationships. It's more that they've had so many communication mishaps that they can't even communicate about sex anymore. There's a lot of pressure on it. They don't know how to engage

intimately with one another outside of sex. So it's sort of rebuilding bridges and rebuilding trust and getting them back into a space where they feel like they can have the sex life that they want. UM. Where it comes to the mechanics of it all. I mean, most of my clients don't get to the mechanics because let me tell you that they already know how to have sex that's pleasurable and great and all that for them, but it's it's not pleasurable because they don't know how to talk.

So once we get past the communication barriers and then well I don't really want to have sex with you because I don't like you no more type of stuff. Once we get past that, um, they don't actually need the mechanics talk. But if it does come down to mechanics, because I do deal in some virgins as well, they come on in a sex therapy to um, then we might be learning like, Okay, how do you suck that,

how do you ride there? How do you do all of the things, and that's watch this video over here, and then we'll come back and we'll talk about it. Because usually there's other feelings that come up when they're even learning that stuff because they're like, oh, well, now I feel badly because you know, I was raised Christian, or I was raised this, I was raised that, and it goes against what I was told I'm supposed to do or what I feel like I should be allowed

to do. So now we're having a completely different discussion. It ends up being about how we think and feel about sex more than the act of sex itself. But yeah, I'm not like I'm for people to ask good y'all the time, goody god glasses classes videology. So all right, I had this boyfriend one time and it didn't last long. And you tell me, did we need a sex therapist

or a sex expert or both? So we had we were very we got among really well everything, Like we walk in the door and be pasted, giving me out of my clothes. We're just kissing, falling all over the wall and ship. And as soon as we started having sex, I mean, it's over in two minutes. I mean maybe not even two minutes. I mean it's over fast. And I you know, I know my pussy is really good. So I just got it at first, like oh, maybe he just needs to get used to this magic, this

sunshine I got. So we had sex three different times and it was the same thing every time. So I'm like, all right, this is a problem because I'm not being please here. You know, the four play is amazing, but the sex is just too short. So I sat him down and I said to him, like, all right, this is gonna be an uncomfortable conversation for both of us, but I need to say these things to you because I care about you and I really like you. And I was like, before you get done, I'm just getting started.

I mean, once you're done, I'm just getting started, like you come too fast. So he got up from the couch, walk to the kitchen, pour himself a glass of water. He didn't say. Now we're just sitting there in silence. I didn't say a word. And then he took a civil water and he said, I ain't never had a beach say no ship like that to me before. That was his response, and got his keys and walked down. He was so embarrassed. I go with before the fall. Um,

for me, that's sex therapy. That's sex therapy, not sex expert. Right. Well, I mean I'm still a sexpert, right and anyone who is a sex therapist is a sexpert. So it's not um, it's not a one or the other in that way. Um. Could he may have review some coaching more than likely, yes, Um, but some of that would be sex therapy. Some of that falls under sex therapy period. So Number one, like, what does he think he knows about sex and sexuality? How does he talk about sex and sexuality? Clearly not

very well. If having someone gently give him feedback hurts that much, that looking like that the first time he heard it, He's fine, Yeah, and do we blame. Do we blame him, or do we blame or do we blame tam for being honest? Or do we blame the women prior to her that just let him go on thinking he was knocking to bottom out that pussy like and you ain't doing nothing like I'm so pro pleasure that I'm not We're not faking work. I'm thinking for years this I was sorry, says but that stuff should

have been less than two thousand nine. Do you think that thousand nine? It should not be a thing of now faking it? Lying you are setting the next woman up for additional work or the next person up traditional work, because now they gotta be like, look, your sex is actually whack. It's like wiggedy wiggedy whack um. And I think that you can learn. But whoever told you that your dick, your dick slanging skills was the best things since slice reread lies? Who ever told you your head

game was amazing? Lie? And you know what, maybe they told the truth for them, but they're not telling the truth for me. For me, this does not work for my body. This is what my body needs. And I think that some of it is just learning. Number one that we have body diversity, and then in that body diversity, different things still good for different people. So what you did for your last job not gonna work for this one,

and you have to be okay with that. So you have to you have to know that this is like a job when you go from one time and working like so you're a bank teller over at at Chase, and now you want to go be a bank teller at Bank of America. The way that Bank of America does things might be different from the Chase, which means that it is your job. Yes, you have some skills and bank tell us stuff, but some of those things will be transferable, but you still have to learn the

lay of the land that you're at into. People don't want to learn the lay in the land. Instead they have been taught that I have to know how to have sex, and that would be enough for anybody that I have sex with, as opposed to thinking how I have sex might have to change based on what is that I'm with and what actually feels good for There so many yeah, like men, make sure your woman tells you it's good. Don't just assume it isn't until I tell you it's good. Just assume as not THAT'SI do

you think. I feel like women orgasm is like a new world. It's like a new thing because I'd like to think that if women didn't have the right to vote, they didn't have the right to even talk. At some point where men ever really that concerned about a woman coming back then, I want to say it's seven years ago. Okay, now, seven years ago. But there definitely was a time where, um, there there was a belief that you could only make a child if a woman workasm. There was their belief,

so they would work hard to make sure that orgasms happen. Um, there was a time where they called it um they said like women had hysteria, and to hysteria, you give a woman an orgasm. Right now, I'll be like, that's hysterias back again, come on, help me out, let me, let me not thinking about sex and sexuality in that way. I'm like, yeah, there was a time where it was very focused on a woman's orgasm. But somewhere along the way, patriarchy really did a beautiful number where it's just like,

well I got mine, you should have got yours. Number one, So we're moving it more into a selfish space where it's like, well, if I have an orgasm and you did it, that's your fault. Um, So it's not being about mutual pleasure. It's started being about let let me get what I can get and fuck you. So when you move into that space, it's like, well damn. Now. That's not to say that everyone is not responsible for their orgasms, because I still believe that to be true

as well. I'm like, you have a responsibility of what you need for your body, to communicate it and to make sure that you get some as well. But if your partner is unwilling to sort of meet you where you are, is unwilling to change up what they're doing so that you can also experience pleasure. Number one, why did you choose this back as person? And number you know, number three and five let them go. Let that, let our person go. Like they're not ready. They don't want

to actually engage insects with you. They're having sexts to you, and that's not the same thing. So okay. So one of the things I wanted to talk about I saw one of your videos on YouTube. You were talking about how to communicate with your partner about what you would like with sex. So my guy communicated that he wanted to exaculate in my mouth, bust in her mouth every time, every time. Like so he's like, you know, he wants to finish that way, and I don't like that. I'm

not saying that I wouldn't do it. I'm not saying that I haven't done it, but to me, like, that's something Valentine's Day birthday type ship. You're not just about to be slapping me out like you're watching point like it's some porn. You know what I'm saying. I like nasty, nasty sex. But at the same time, like, no, every time,

I don't like that. Right, So he made a comment once and he was like, well, if you don't let me do it, um no, he said, uh, how a woman can't become a girlfriend or a wife without doing that. That's kind of manipulation a little bit. So I'm like, well, I guess I won't be exactly I won't be girlfriend or wife then, but you end up being pretty much both exactly right, But how how do Because my thing

is why do you want to do that? Why do you want if I'm already giving you all ahead in the world, why do you then have to take it up a notch or try and push the envelope. Is it because it really feels good? Or is it because you're now trying to make me do something that I just don't want to do. So you're like, you know, trying to force me to do something I really don't like. And if it's pleasurable for you and it's not pleasurable for me, why do you want to do it? Mm hmm.

So different people find different things to be pleasurable. Um, I'm all about you know, not knocking somebody else's so don't yuck someone else's young. For them, that is a yummy ass thing to do. Like this makes like, oh, it makes me feel good. It feels so great. It feels it feels like it feels like love, It feels like heads and gets and all that stuff. It feels like Valentine's Day every day. So for them it may

feel like that. But if for you the thing does not feel like that, that means that you should not necessarily go expending your consent in that direction. If for you more but I'll do this every now and then, but I can't commit to this all the time sort of thing, then that is the way that you do it. But if they can't respect your decision to say no,

for me, that is a red ass flag. If you're if you're like, look, I am not into this thing that you are into, and you are in a space now where you are not accepting that you do not have consent, that is a problem for me. Well, it's not like worsting or manipulating or controlling or constantly being like do it, do it, do it? Do it you. If you loved me, you would do it. Um, if you wanted me to marry you, you would do it. Because those are forms of manipulation. Now he can make

a decision for himself. If he's saying that that is a boundary that he will marry somebody who does not swallow or you know who won't catch them kids even if not swallow, um, then he gets to make that decision for himself. For him, that could be the line in the sand. But people tend to do it's trying to draw boundaries against other people's guarding. I'm looking like, no, your boundaries are for you. Your boundaries are not for others.

So saying like, well, then you can't be over here if you won't do this I'm like, this is what I need. I see that you are unable to meet my need, but but we are not actolutely compatible. I hope that it's okay that we aren't waiting at this time. Yeah, because we would have a good sex and all that. So it is, that's just the one other thing. And yeah, I don't think that anybody should if that's your boundary and you're not saying no, you can't do this, I'll

do it every once in a while. I don't think it's something that should happen all the time just because you say so. Absolutely nothing. I'm like, what works like that other than right? And look, you put some money, if you're a monetary value behind it. Now, maybe you can pay me to do it. I don't know, right, but is it. I'm looking like people already in a lot of ways paying the play, but we are asking people for emotional commitments to go with the sex. Trade

you sex for some emotional commitment. I'll trade you this for that. I'm looking like, look, at the end of the day, everybody's selling something to somebody for something, right, and nothing wrong with that. It's about making sure that your needs are met and their needs are also being met. We're talking about just being in the space of mutual um respect as well as some level of reciprosity. Everybody is looking for something. It's not about like, oh, you

hold yourself out. I mean, I mean technically you do that at work. You sell your body so that you can make money. I mean, and I'm talking about this jealous Miss Olivant already tell us us we listen to hotels right, Oh, how else out? But Mama, like, we already know everybody's doing something for something period. Hold on, before we get into anything else, Let's pay some bills real quick. So on our show, we had conversations about open marriages and polygamy, like what's your thoughts on the

that polyamory, polygamy? However, this if someone wants to live their life, it's not really my business. That's one. That's what I believe. I believe that you should actually live your best life, and I have found it some of the most stable relationships that I see in therapy and that I see from you know, some of the folks that I wrock with are actually made up for three individuals or more so. They have they You have to have communication with your partner um none of that. Well,

you shouldn't know none of that stuff. It's actually I talk about the things that I need in my relationship and I have my knees met. It also means that you know when you're with somebody and they have a whole different set of sex acts that they want to do, but you're like, oh, hell no, your third person, that person might be the one to be like yes everybody, but he didn't get someth do you come in exactly?

Because it's just like you, we I think oftentimes we think that everybody, whoever that we're with, whoever our romantic partner is, should meet every single need that we have. Is unrealistic. It's not going to happen. Just like you don't hear everything you need from one friend, you have a bunch of different friends, right You're like, oh, well, this one I can talk to about this type of

stuff because she's more resective. This one I could talk to about this stuff because he's more he's more cool with that, And this one I could talk about this because this is the thing, this is bair line. You can't talk about everything with everybody, So why do you expect your partner to now be the end all be

all for everything possibly needs in a relationship. If we take up if we take romantic relationships off the damn pedi school because they do not belong up there, and put them in par with the other friendships and other types of relationships that we have, we will see that we are just meeting various needs that we have with various people. M hm uh. If we do the same thing within romantic spaces, we can have all of our

needs met. So I think that it is very traditional in a sense, very Christian traditional to say one man, one woman in particular. But I'm like, if let's stop what you're rocking with, that's not what you're rocking with. So for some people it's very realistic. I think that that's but you, I'm rocking with what I rock with. I saw you not gry. I was trying to get dig in there. I am about to get married. Congratulations

to you, thank you, thank you. Um. But for me and the thing, that's that's uh, you know, spacebook, we we navigate what it is that we are wanting in our relationships in a lot of ways. Some people would say that we're not traditional couple, um, just because of like earnings and who has more time, who, who's doing this, who's doing that. Some people will say that he would he was in a wrong space to a woman who doesn't want to have children. I am that woman. I

don't want to have children. Um, maybe I'll changed my mind, maybe I want, but in this head moment, no, I'm quite all right on that. So, I mean, this is us cultivating the life that we want, and as a therapist my job, I'm just like, well, what kind of life do you actually want to have? Clients are now they are planning more around with like the idea of

opening up relationships. They are um even exploring their own sexuality because so many people, I mean a lot of us were brought up in you gotta be straight type rhetoric and I'm not straight. I'm like, yes, I'm I'm with a I'm with a dude, but that doesn't change my identity from from being what I am to just because he's a dude. I don't. I'm just like, how did that work? I'm looking like, what's next? Transmucial I'm

not so. I'm just I think that in building the life that you want to have for yourself, you have to be number one, cognizant of who you are and be willing to question that every day. What we know about ourselves right now, in this moment is going to change, right every time you learn something, every time you have a new hypocrite, somebody seeds or something you know, it takes plans, you start thinking about it, you want to learn more about it, and then you in your mind.

And that's why I mean, if you're even gonna be in a relationship, being able to grow together as part of it. And I think that people forget the part where you grow and sometimes that growth may grow apart um, sometimes you grow closer together. But being able to determine um for yourself where it is that you want to go. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So I am. I am open for people who are Polly, I am.

I'm down to people who are who are not. I'm like, if you want to be monogymous, great, If you're not a monogonmous, also great. It's really about you doing what's best for you in your relationship. Absolutely agree. So let me ask you this because I masturbate a lot, because I don't have like a regular like. I don't have a consistent sex partner right now in my life, So I masturbate a lot. Am I fucking up my clitter? Is? When I do have a man, You gotta your own stuf.

But I just like I used like toys and stuff like that, and I just concerned that like I'm like sucking my clitter is up desensitizing it. Yeah, but a lot of people think that right. Um, So really it's just like number one, Yes, can you temporarily numb the area, Yeah, but it'll also bounce back. So if it's like, oh I can't feel anything, then maybe lay off of it for a couple of days and it'll come right back

and everything will be good all over again. Um. But the idea that you can over masturbate or that you can desensitize clutter is that's definitely just built in in live. I've been wondering where people like yo men make it up. Yeah, because if you can make yourself or a gas some harder than they cans and maybe they start feeling from type of back exactly, That's why they'd be hating on vibrators and ship who's got time to hate gonna vibrate? As they out there to help you, Yeah, packing and

bring it to your house. Suck on my titties while I do this, Thank you. Littlemutual masturbation tis the month for it all I do it. I have a considers like her husband masturbating as cheating? Really is that? I don't see it as cheating? Do you see it as I guess it's just it depends on the parameters of your marriage. Yeah, but it definitely depends on the parameters

of your own relations and ship. I would I would urge them to think about why why do you see your partner touching their own body as a form of cheating? What about it feels threatening to you? Um. I've even done a couple of videos on this on my Instagram. UM, because I talked about this type of stuff every May. When I started talking about masturbation, May somebody slides into my d NS and then just like, is it cheating if I masturbate? And I'm just like, I don't know.

You gotta tell me what your relationship. Maybe he feels that way because if he's not sucking her and then you're in the bathroom every Tuesday or every day at six o'clock being your dick and you're not sucking me. That's that's the problem. If I am warning and willing to have sex with you, but you'd rather please yourself, that's a sex therapist issue, right to come. It very well could be a sex therapist issue. I have seen

that issue come up for me. I'm more like I think that Number One, you should be able to masturbate to your heart's content, because sometimes masturbation is not necessarily about the thing that we think is about, right, So it's not always about the sexual piece of it. Sometimes it's just I need pleasure. Sometimes it's just I need a relief. Sometimes it's more about your mental health than

it is about the physical need. Right, So you should be able to do the things that work best for you for your mental health and for your general well being. And for some people, masturbation is it and it's also mental health Awareness month. So to me, it is it, and I'm looking like it really is. It just runs the gam But if you're feeling like you're not getting the sex that you want, but your partner is is masturbating and you are not included, number one, that's a

conversation to be had. See if you can insert yourself into their massurbatory practices like, hey, can I join you? Can I watch? Um? Can? Can I set the citties while you do that? You cannot unrest you while you do that? UMM? Being able to just bring each other together, like can't we masturbate together a little mutual mask? Can I masturbate you? Like? Let me let let me get involved in the massurbatory practice here. That is one way

to sort of see if you can bridge the gap. UM. And I could be wondering what's going on in your relationship that your partner does not want to have sex with you, So you're worried about the self. So I'm looking like I'm worried about what else is going on in your relationship. So so then that's right. So that's my thing. Say something is wrong, but something could be

wrong and you are completely unaware of it. Yeah, So for me, intimacy and I think for a lot of women, intimacy starts in the mind, like I want you to love on me all day long, not just right before you want to me when we get into bed at night. So we're constantly having disagreements, We're constantly arguing, and I feel like being in love is a state of mind.

So you have to do things to continuously keep falling in love what you made, because it's easy to fall out of love and then you can fall back in love with that same person or you might go outside the relationship. Right, So we're constantly arguing and you still want sex even after argument. Sometimes men they don't care like they can be. I have to be happy to

have sex. So we're constantly arguing that I'm mad, I don't want to have sex, don't touch me, and no, we're not right now physically in an argument, but I'm still pissed. And if you I don't want you to touch me, and if I let you do it, it's kind of rapey because I didn't want to do it in the first place. Now I'm just doing something because you want to do it, because I don't want my man to go to someone else for it. But I'm pissed.

At the same time, I like, let's RhE um. If you won't do with somebody else, will I'm just going to go. You can go and you don't want don't get the rest of your relationship from them while you at it. Good Bye, pretty much, don't come back and talk. You see tam she thinks it's cool and start arguments so she can have makeup sex. I don't like that. Ship don't still argument with me because you wanna be sucking yourself for a month later. You gotta tell my

bus Toxiana. That's why tell sex therapist dr. Sometimes I might might start a little friction just so we can have that kind of like forceful angry sex two times just won't play. I feel like it's not real. The anger ain't real. If it works for you and your partner, it well, I guess it didn't because me and the nigga ain't together no more so I guess it didn't work. But anyway, back to what you were saying, like um

about like you know, wanting different types of intimacy. This book Write You Use Your Mouth by Shamira Howard Um. This book is, uh, it's amazing thing. You know, like it's small, it's pocket sized for your convenience, but it talks about seven different types of intimacy and it ends with sexual intimacy because for a lot of people, yeah, they do need those other pieces in order to feel like they can have the type of set that feels

good and connected for them. And you write some people be like, um, we are not on the same page. You can keep your hands off my body. My body is mine. I'm not willing to share this. And then look, you all gotta do nothing just later, like how is that pleasurable for me? Like, first of all, you don't know how it feels to be penetrating, right, and then on top of me not even liking you right now?

Hell like you will say any dagoning thing like so you want to masturbate but with my body right and to me like sex me interested in my participation and you're just interested in getting a nut. You could have done that with some note, with some lotion in your hands. Awesome, You can do it as many times as you like it. You don't have to involve me. You can go pocket pussy. Um, don't get yourself whatever toy it is that you need

so that you can have some enjoyment. But right now my body is off, you have and if you be okay with that, like I said, I'm all about get the hell on. I brought my pocket pussy one time for real, Like, I bought him one because he was military, he was deployed, so I sent it in the care package with some deritos and ship the military girl. Them girls be a broad selling pussy. The few women hold on. Before we get into anything else, let's pay some bills

real quick, all right, So let's get into colorism and texturism. Um, you wrote a book Cocoa Butter and Hair Grease and Self Love Ready through here in skin tell us about the book and what prompted you to create it. Um. The book is a work book. It's a twelve week

plus work book. UM, really to get you thinking about your skin tone, your hair texture, the messages that you've received about them, and how those messages impact you at work, with your family, with lovers, and sort of breaking out of what those messages versa that you can replace some of these messages that feel better and more affirming for you. UM. And of course that has a really dope feeling shart in it. UM. Had that don't created because you don't

find a feeling shart with black folks is difficult. So then we also decided we're just gonna put some black ass feelings in it, like, oh, I'm feeling myself. I wish a bitch would is it is? And my thing? Um, And the funk is also in there, like the funk. It's all on any notion the way I see it. But it was it was. It was created because um, there's there's a couple of clients in particular that ended up being like a lot of the basis for it. So before it was just a bunch of little sheets

and homeworks that I gave them. And I told somebody that I had created a bunch of worksheets and things and they were like, you should put it in a book, and I said he and I had the whole thing basically outlined and mapped out in my in my Google drive. And somebody was like, yeah, she's writing a book. And I was like, what She's not told everybody I'm looking like it ended up on therapy for Black girls that I'm writing a book. I was like, I wasn't good.

I guess I really now I gonna right. So I had the worksheets translated and you know, done into something that was a little bit prettier and bound together. But the one of the clients was just like, I'm dark, I'm fat, and I'm nappy. Who the funk on one me? And this was part of the justification for staying in an abusive relationship that that, well, who else is going

to want me? I have to accept what I what I got, and we have to keep in mind that like people say all the time, though, right, and we've already normalized it, so we'll be like, oh, they're acting real light skin, what does that mean? Say, oh, they're acting light skin. You need to remember what color you are you're acting light skin? Oh, dark skinned women are not to have standards. Only light skinned women are allowed

to have standards. Like, it just becomes this whole big gass thing where I feel like dark skinned people are consistently being gas lit and to believing that their experience

is not their experience. So somebody has to talk to dark skinned people, and I decided it was gonna be me, okay, And as much as I love hearing from light skin folks who talk about colors and textualism and a looking like, there are a lot of dark skinned people that you don't hear who also talk about this, who will never be on the same programming, who will never be at the front. So I want to get into textualism because there's a lot of isms out here. But I never

realized that textualism was a thing. So I always make jokes that, you know, if all black women had like loose, like like had his hairless right this nice Indian bundles I'm gonna be selling soon anyway. So if all women, all black women had like heir like this, I think men love here like they want to be able to touch our hair, and they can't write a lot of times they can't just rub their things through our natural

heir and touch our scalp. I always make a joke that if all black women had long curly hair, we would keep we would like our men wouldn't be going outside of community because they're so in love with here, but we were we or you know, if you have forcy here like I do, Like you're not just sticking your fingers to that. No, I got that force myself, I mean from and I'm like, put your hands in there.

I'll fix the frow later, like come on, um, because I I personally I don't like to divorce myself from that bit of pleasure that comes with someone playing in your hair so on you know, massaging your scal or even especially within sex act, someone's like there's all that's so many beautiful nerves and things right there. I'm just like, I don't deny it myself any of those things. Um, but I mean this idea of touchable hair, it usually

grew for me. I remember like those herbal Essences commercials growing up, where they'd be like, yes, yes, yes, I have this wavy, long hair, and it's supposed to be shiny and movable and all that other stuff, and the advertising of sex hair or bed hair, and it's supposed to be the sexy sort of hair that happens when you have naturally straight hair. I think that for a lot of it is just we need to rewrite the script um. Natural hair is not unattractive. Natural hair is

not unmanageable. Natural hair is not even any more difficult to manage. But because most of us have learned how to manage straight hair, we think of our own hair is being unmanageable. I'm like, no, your hair won't do the thing that you're trying to make it do that straight hair does, which is not the same thing as saying that your hair is unmanageable. I don't know how to manage it sounds more accurate, right, It's not unmanageable. You just don't know how to manage it. Yeah, it's

not supposed to do exactly. I'm looking like, I'm how am I supposed to get a mussy bun? I can't get non messy. But I can't wake up and just gather my natural hair and just stick it in some sort of messy But I'm like, look, that's not my life, my hair, don't do that. I know that I need water in a brush. I will just look a mess it won't be a messy bun. But even then, letting

that be okay. But we get caught up and um, and this is, you know, again the thing our product of white supremacy that says that black people are subferior. You know, that their inferior to white folks, and that we have to work twice as hard to make ourselves presentable to be acceptable in space. So we are constantly, i think, in a lot of ways, erasing pieces of

who we are in order to meet that. I mean, it was a couple of years ago that H and M had the little girl who with the same sort of messy hair that the front that the other people had, but she had a different hand texture, and people got up in arms and I'm just like you're trying. That's what hair yea it is. It's supposed to be about kids at play. How they do black blue ivy Yeah,

same thing, how they were doing. Yeah, now that her hair is long and flourished, and they're okay because we like it when hair sticks to some level of Eurocentric standards. We want the hair to be long, we want the hay hair to be straighter, we want the hair to constantly be done. And I'm just like, nobody is constantly together, but we feel like we have to constantly put on someone. Like we're so used to code switching. We code with without hair, be codes with with our clothes. We do

it with our voices. We got our white voice when we answer the phone. I mean, we're doing all of this stuff all the time, and I'm just like number one, it's exhausting and number too intensively to certain levels of anxiety and depression because you're separating yourself from yourself. At some point, we have to learn to like what is already ours and the way that your hair grows out of here. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just society's view of what is considered to be acceptable and not

acceptable and society's view as white supremacies. As fuck, there's nothing. There's not very much that black people can do to be considered acceptable. You have to change almost everything about who you are in order for someone to say that you're acceptable and just acceptable, not desirable, not the best. Just do you just barely met the bar? M right, let's stop. Stop, Let's talk about some more sex before you go, because that should getting too deep. Man. Listen, um,

what dumb story? All right? So no, we gotta ask you. All right, we have a segment called dumb Bitch story, right, and it's just you know, we've all been to dumb bitch once or twice in our life for whatever reason. Can you think of a time where you felt like, damn, I was stupid? Like there are several times I'm like,

damn that was that was? Oh goodness. See put me on a stone out Like you think I'm gonna read, I'm gonna read one from a listener who sent there's in and we can discuss theirs, and if you come up with one, you can share it at the end stories because evolved in the dumb Bitch at least it's twice, all right, So listen to this This is from Megan Um. I was riding in the car with my boyfriend. We were on the way to the beach. His phone rang

and he didn't recognize the number, so he answered. When he answered, he had the audacity to be laughing and giggling and ship. So I'm in the passenger seat getting piste off. He hangs up the phone and I go off. I'm asking him who he was talking to, and he ignores me. That pissed me off even more so to get his attention, I grabbed the steering wheel and accidentally turned it and we ran off the road and we

went into the embankment. Long story short, the police came and it was his mom who was actually on the phone and was calling from a different number, not another girl. He called his friend to pick him up, and he left me with my car on the side of the inter state with triple A and the police. Now he won't answer my calls. What can I do to get my nigga back? As he showed your whole, your whole, I'm grab the steering away the person that you don't trust.

You'll asses off the fucking road to prove a point literally and figuratively, road. You know, you could have died, So you could have died listening to anybody who thinks that's cute to grab the steering wheel to get a niggerd attention. Don't do that. Don't do that. It's never that serious. You don't deserve your back. You don't deserve your back, and then you could possibly go to jail. He's still gonna be fucking bitches out here. Yeah, you

were definitely a dumb bitch. Like that was very zelius. I was just like, that was that was not the move at all. I'm just like, what did you give him that you put your own car in an embankment and now you gotta pay your fil a and now you got I'm like, oh no, oh no, no, no, hell to the no, no, no, so dumb you are really gone. That was definitely you are dumb bitch for that. Hopefully you've learned your lesson and you don't deserve him back, you don't. You just gotta find somebody else. And he

still might not. He still might be a ain't ship dude, He's still himself. I'm just like, but if you're feeling that insecure in your relationship, maybe if you have a conversation. Maybe you leave, but definitely we're not running ourselves off the damn road line. God, damn food. You're crazy. We need to get it. You are a dumb bitch. Drop No, that that's not even that might be a crazy bitch crazy. You are crazy, dumb bitch. I'm just like you. You

didn't think that was okay that level. You're about to get married. She didn't trying to put her business out here anyway. Alright, final question, you've accomplished so much. What's next that we can expect for Dr Oreo? Well, Uh, well, I am currently writing a book the same for black women. Um We're gonna see how that go. Because I'm busy. I feel like I'm team going to the much sometimes. Um, So I guess that's what you what you can expect

between that, Okay, I'm looking forward. We're gonna be looking for that for sure. Look, I've been trying to write a book since two thousand eleven, so maybe we can challenge each other. I've been trying to write a book. Uh, Instruction Guide to the Black Man is what I've been trying to write. But you know, I need a lot of research with some ship like that. So I've been I have fucking niggas and trying to figure it out, trying to get some primary data. You really should you

should focus on that. A J. I really want to see that book come from you and Dr Orio Well, I would love to get that book about We need that. We need both of them. So yeah, but I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna beat that book. So um, We're just gonna be done, all right. We can challenge each other each other, maybe we can. Maybe I'll finish it this year. I'll just say that it'll be I got in town, I got ten more chapters to go. I've

already outlined the books. I mean, I just gotta I really gotta get the right am is you know time the name of the book that you already have out so our listeners can go purchase it. It is Cocoa Butter and Hair Grease and Stuff Love Join Me Through Hair and Skin. It's available on Amazon, I think it might be on barn to Noble and it's um. You can also get it from my website, Coco Buttter and Hair Grease dot com. Is there coloring in it? Because if it's some coloring in there, I'm going to get

it along couple up there here. Oh bitch, I'm sold. I'm going to get it. I like color because I like there's a couple of cross words color and pages. Yeah. I was just like, oh yeah, oh yeah, I want to buy it. We really, really, really really appreciate you pulling up on us. This is a great episode. Thank you. You got to come back when you get that that second book together, Come on back and let's talk about it. Okay, absolutely, let's do it, all right, all right, thank you, thank you.

Apparently my vagina works based on what Dr yo Will has to say, So that's good works. Okay, just tin still in the game. Yeah, so we get to learn. We got to learn about textures, in which I never knew was a thing until now. I kind of knew, but I didn't know it was a word for it. Right we all obviously we know like discrimination based on hair is a real thing, but they gotta word for every goddamn thing. I got ugly feet. What they call

it foodism? A bit should be picking up rocks and throwing them, I mean picking sam out the stream with my feet, just grabbing them out like a bear. Be more careful, I could you know, I compare myself to an animal every episode. As of lately, it's been a fish, a bear. When were you? When were you a bear? Just now I said, like a bear? Snatch your stands. But I definitely enjoyed the therapist. Listen. I don't want her to leave because I had some more fucking questions

on my dad. Have no pad so I could get my free hours worth of therapy right quick. But you was rushing it. I was. We talked for a long time. She's that lady had to go. She had time for yo. You're trying to take advantage of her free information. I'm gonna get her book, though, I'm gonna buy it for everybody like and put it in their Christmas gifts. I

think that would be a nice Christmas gift everybody. Yeah, you know, I'm all about buying a self help book for bitches and if this will make your pussies better. Take a while for me to even touch a book. So I know all the books out and gave you, they probably collected dust at your house. I might not buy your this one. Keep I like by your vibrator in no book, So look, I don't know if so I bought me the Roads off a group on. I just don't know if it's authentic though. Is it sucking

or is it shooting out here? Oh no, I don't know if it's doing it the right way or not. It's weird. Is it going like this is hard though? It's not doing it hard? Which one the first? Yeah, it's suck a little bit, but it's not hard. I think I got the strong ship. They're pushing me hard. Look shut up, so listen. If you guys enjoyed this week's episode, please tune in every Thursday on the I Heart Radio app or wherever the fun you get your

podcasts at. Also, we need all the Dumber Stories, all Attempts series, all the ask the Black Friend questions from our other listeners. You guys can email us at we Talk Back, p o D at gmail dot com. And this is your girl a J. And it's Tam Bam. I love y'all. Biekout