Hello Food Fam . This is the Walk and Talk Podcast and I'm your host , carl Fiodini , and we're podcasting onsite at Ibis Images Studios , where food photography comes alive On the menu today . And first , thank you Peninsula Food Service for supplying the proteins for today's production .
We have a Creekstone Farms Prime brisket melt bruh bros out there like seriously stupid delicious . There was a Floribian Mexican hot chocolate rubbed hickory smoked brisket man . It was . Today was all about the brisket . Our guest today is a dear friend of mine , the chef , adam Polisi . Yeah , that's right , we're going to be talking all about the restaurant life .
We'll bring him in shortly . Chef Jeffrey Schlissel , my man , why don't you jump into the pre-shift and talk about that lovely , lovely , freaking sandwich that you put together there ? Man , that was like I don't need entrees anymore . So we're talking in the creed room . Yeah , I don't need an entree just to keep making these sandwiches .
There's something got to be said about some , you know , craveable sandwiches , right ? So you know we did the Mexican hot chocolate rub . We ferment our own chocolate , then we grind that down into the original OG , which is the original rub that we have . Then that sat for about three or four days to dry out and get that bark started . How many days ?
About three or four days ? That could have been even longer .
We were supposed to do the podcast last week . Stop , stop , stop . I just want everybody to realize Think about that . Okay , keep going .
Yeah , four days , it's a long time . And then we used a hickory smoke that smoked about 10 hours on that one because this is a little bit smaller , which is fine . Normally they can go up to about 14 hours worth of smoke Then pulled it and then cooled it . Then we wanted to do one entrees style , one of the sandwich . The sandwich .
They had a whole bunch of like layers going through it . It had last year's green harvest of strawberries . We pickled those , sliced them thin , had a hickoma slaw that had key lime . On the sandwich itself we did a guava aioli and then we did fried . I don't know about the , I love the .
You know , go into the Asian store and get the fried shallots or onions and the garlic , put those on top for crunch and then caramelized it with manchego cheese on the outside and the inside .
Didn't we have the Mimaw sauce on there ? Huh , yeah , we had the Mimaw sauce on throughout . Like don't , don't , yeah , I mean you were , you were , you were going to sleep on that , oh , no , you slept on one .
You forgot about the borscht .
Yeah , well , no , because so that was great . No , you can get into that , can't go .
Okay , we'll go . We'll go through the entree though . Yeah , so they had the Mimaw sauce on everything . Mimaw sauce is that bourbon citrus forward a lot of tangerine to it . The entree had collards that are braised down with the Calabria oil that we were talking about with Joseph last week . We had that nice spice to it and then had some Uzu vinegar in there .
So that brought that whole different theme of vinegar to it , like we normally would with apple cider vinegar . So I wanted to go a little Uzu on that one . Then I made an elote cake which I used the corn out of Georgia which is called the violet corn . It's yellows and purples .
Smoke that with my ahi verde , when you were first started talking about elote corn and doing these cakes and stuff , you didn't really have me , but today I am a believer . Yeah .
It's to me when I did it , the cake form , because we start off with a path of shoes , water and flour to get it to steam , bring it up and then add in the egg slowly with the KitchenAid and then you add your ingredients to the last part of it . So I had coliita cheese in there as well , but for me it was the smoke that really came through .
And the ahi verde we came up with . That sauce is just ridiculous . And then we served that with peeled potatoes and then we really did a quick , nice flash fry on those and then we did the borscht , which is completely different . Everybody's thinking borscht either yuck or whatever . It's a soup .
This was not a soup , this was literally smoked beets and it was really good .
I like as far as borscht the soup , I always love that . We talked about that last week a little bit , but what you did with this is like soup in a solid state was pretty damn good . Thank you .
Yeah , so it had smoked beets , pickled garlic inside it . Then I took beets that were fermented . They're almost 14 days now With that . We chopped that up , put pickled cabbage and then sour cream , mixed that in together and at the bottom of it had the smoked brisket on the bottom .
And then we cut it , you layer it through and you just eat and you have all these different layers coming through .
And eat and eat .
Yeah , you're a happy camper .
Yeah , today was great , Matt , and you know what . You know what makes this Okay . So everything you described with the sandwich friggin amazing , right , but the rye bread with the crispy cheese on top .
Yeah , that was next level .
Dude , I hate what you're doing on my waist . I really do . I don't do anything to your waist . It's not like I hold a gun to you and say eat you base . Well , it's the same thing , it's the same , it's totally , it's , it's totally . You need a camera on John for that facial expression ? Seriously no , but the truth is that bread makes all the difference .
This is my buddy man , michael Mansow , down in West Palm Beach . He said it himself he wouldn't have been in business for 20 plus years doing the hoagies for wasn't for the bread . Yeah , I mean , adam just said it too , and they were in the green room .
He's like hey , you know the .
He's like hey , look this you know the bread he's trying to imitate , you Isn't that ?
Yeah , I told you , when you shake his hand , it's like a two hand .
I remember the conversation we had with Jason and we were talking about bourbon and when he would talk about Adam's fingers , it was more like this yeah , you gotta go to the doctor get X-rays after the . It was like the guy from Cannibal Runmore no Fletch .
Fletch Right . All right . So all right , jeff , speaking of Chef Adam , my man , welcome to the show . What's up , carl ? How you doing ? Brother ? Dude , if I was any better , I would be you True story , right ? So you guys have some new things going on , right ? What are you guys cooking ? Yeah ?
I do have some new things going on right now , kind of in between and just kind of trying to relax a little bit and kind of find my life again .
I guess , if you will , you spent the last like three years , two or three years , you know , just balls deep on on what you were folk on that , on that project right .
Yeah , so I started with Next Level Brands . Actually during COVID shutdown I started at 4BG doing a little bit of consulting for them . Then , shortly after , when they realized that , you know , the economy was going to come back around , everything was going to be good , they wanted to start this group and they approached me about , you know , opening Union .
Boulin Brasserie ended up kind of just being an extra bonus on top of that . So Union was about a year delayed , I would say , and Boulin was supposed to be afterwards like six months , and instead Boulin ended up being three months before and then Union right thereafter .
So we went through COVID , we got 4BG back up and running and then developed Union , then developed Boulin , then opened Boulin and then turned back around and opened Union .
Yeah , I mean , that's a hell of an experience to have on the resume .
It was a pretty serious couple of years .
Yeah , and those are all serious establishments too .
Yeah , they definitely weren't kid buildouts . They were pretty serious investments and pretty beautiful buildings . It was , you know , as far as where my career had been . The experience that I got opening those restaurants for those guys was absolutely incredible .
Right . And then you have a new project that you're working on .
Yeah , so currently I had this kind of dream about Hellion Hospitality is what I'm calling my company's name and it was kind of the plan before I signed up with Next Level Brands and then kind of looked at it and I was like you know , is this the time in my career that I'm ready to do this yet ?
And the opportunity to go work with a group that you know had a little bit more backing and that had a little bit more experience in the restaurant industry , to kind of , you know , have a little bit more of a crutch at that time seemed like a great idea .
And to go in and be kind of a culinary director sort of a role rather than being an owner , seemed like the right thing for me at that time . And you know it turns out that it probably was the right decision . But now , like I don't want to look back 20 years from now and say what if ?
right ? Well , it was . So , listen , if you , being culinary director for a multi unit group is a big deal and that is your next step into ownership , I mean , you already know the ins and outs , right ? So at the end of the day , it's a terrific stepping stone .
What does it take to open not just one restaurant , but multiple restaurants in a short window of time ? What is that actually ? What sort of intestinal fortitude does it take for that ?
I mean mostly a very understanding wife . But yeah , post that I mean it really was . It was mentally trying at times and I mean there was definitely some good times and some bad times and it definitely wasn't always the easiest ride , that's for sure .
Um , but you know , at one point I think I had like one day off and like 60 days or something like that , basically right after Christmas until I don't know the day after Valentine's Day or something like that .
I had one or two days off and every one of those days was , you know , seven , eight , nine o'clock in the morning until probably 10 , 11 o'clock at night .
So that's taxing man , and it's physical work too . Yeah yeah , that is very taxing , jeff . You're shaking your head . Oh , it's just nightmares triggers .
You wouldn't believe . Yeah , some . PTSD going on here A hundred percent . I mean when you have to be older , like we talked about it last week , when we're doing uh , we talked about Keith and doing the catering offsite .
When you're doing three restaurants and you have them going , the amount of organization you have to have been , especially if it's different menus then you have . You know you can't go to the vendor and be like , hey , if I buy this steak from you all three , I'm going to get better pricing .
But if you have him differently than because each one is different and you don't have that buying power per se , there are other places you can get that , but my God it's , I don't even want to think about it .
Yeah , um , when I came to central Florida , I did . I did 11 months with no days off . I did 11 months , no day off , because we're building a brand new Op-Go from nothing . Owner of the company said here's the keys to the building and here's a couple of refrigerated trucks .
And there was three of us and we're doing everything from buying the product , loading the product , building out the warehouse , selling like the whole kit . So by the end of that year I was a mess , but it was a great experience . I don't know that I would ever trade that , you know .
And at the end of it , towards the end of that period of time , I was out of my mind , you know , I was delirious , basically , and but I look back and that's . You know , what do they say to you when you you can't hammer out , make a sword out of without beating the hell out of the iron or whatever you know . So that's what that was me man .
I got beat the hell out of , and you know , but I came out of it like solid .
We have a funny thing that we're listening today as we're getting ready to go take my daughter to school and they were talking about people that succeed and they were talking about people that do that jump .
And the DJ was talking about it was saying how he packed up all his stuff , didn't have a place to stay , went out for an interview , didn't even have the job . It was talking about Michael Daniels , right , the head coach of the dolphins . He said he went out and bought this watch . That was more than a house .
And he said I'm gonna buy this watch without even knowing if I'm gonna be employed a year from now . And they asked him why he did it ? Because then there was nothing to stop me . It's like when you go into battle and they burn the ships , there's no retreat .
When Chef and his funny , funny we're talking about it when Chef Alex went through the hell that he went through with the other company opening the three different restaurants almost simultaneously , the fortitude you gain is the knowledge that you can do this .
You know they always tell you , especially when I was going through culinary school use other people's money , don't use yours . To figure it out , opm , baby Right . And that's what he did ? He went out , he got the fortitude and he realized , when you can put yourself through it and you're having other people pay you , then it's like , yeah , I got this .
There's no way , that's , nothing's gonna stop me . It's the same kind of thing that I went through . You know . Put it finally , say screw this . I'm gonna do this because I know I can . Now Right .
Well , that's the thing Like , because I remember , you know , adam and I met when you were at Ocean Prime and you were happy to go , lucky man . You were just , you know , easy peasy , limits , queasy .
Yeah , the funny thing is that Ocean Prime with Cambridge or restaurants I mean I feel like Cambridge or restaurants is one of the premier organizations in the country . The way that Cameron runs his company is incredible . I got really good at running their systems and I thought I was , you know , the man as far as that went .
You know , I never got a chance to really do my menu there , whatever I was cooking their food and , you know , basically running through their systems and that was one of the things that you don't realize .
When you go to start something with someone else , you know , or on your own , it's like everything you try to do takes exponentially longer than you know what . It was my whole career leading up to that point .
So you have to build the system before you can even teach someone how to get that done and like the stress that that entails throughout the day when you have no time . Whatever else like that was probably the toughest thing was building literally everything ground up .
I think a lot of people they kind of skip or glaze over what it takes to come up with all the protocols , to come up with all the systems . You know , and in your case you know menus and personnel and equipment and you know the whole . Okay , that's a lot .
You know , and I'm kind of I was sort of doing that now with Peninsula , you know , because I'm you know , ostensibly to go over the sales department there and marketing department or created a marketing department , and you know it's the best of the times .
You know it's a situation where you know you're putting , you're gambling , you're like , okay , I know I'm gonna need X amount of employees , something for this , something for this , I need staff for that , I need a person for this , and it's all a bet . And it's the people who , when it's their money , you're gambling with their money .
So you really need to perform right . And that's where a lot of that pressure comes from . It's different when it's yours , because you know it's you don't wanna lose any money . But in the back of your head you're like you know what , I'll take a gamble on that and I know if I lose it , it's mine to lose and I'll take a little bit more of a risk .
I wouldn't have done this at the place I was at or with my employer , but it's mine . So I'll take the risk and I think that's where you , I think that's a secret sauce and I think that's where people win . I think that's where you will find success is taking the gamble , taking the risk .
And that's the thing when I was talking about it . I mean , you think about , you know , cutting the umbilical cord and taking fail and turning it into the first attempt in learning and making that acronym . I think you can definitely do it Like the next thing that I open up or do . I don't wanna do a full scale restaurant .
I know that's not where I wanna be . I wanna do Sammys .
Yeah , not at this stage of your life . Who wants all that that's . Who wants that no ?
well , it's not only that . It's like you listen to all the different people you and I run into , and you're probably here at the chef too as well . It's like labor I can't find anybody , and that's the biggest thing , well , all right .
So , by the way , I mean , if you're gonna be making sandwiches like this , yeah , like just two sandwiches all day long . I want that in my life every day .
Well , it's craveable . I mean , here's the difference thing . And I think , when you said it's in your kitchen .
It's not craveable , it's straight addiction .
I definitely have that .
But , like what you were saying when you were working for the other group , you weren't making their food , so your food was good but it wasn't craveable . When you cook your food and you put your passion behind it , that's what the people are eating your passion , your love for the food you're putting on that plate .
Yeah . So , with what you're saying right there , I was thinking about it on the way over here and , like , I listened to a couple of podcasts , I listened to a couple of things that throughout the years , have kind of brought me a lot of motivation and vision , if you will .
And when it finally came down to leaving Next Level Brands , it was a situation that it was like this is their organization , they've dreamed of this and what they want to do with it is fantastic for them , and but I know that what I want to do for the rest of my career isn't in line with what they want to do .
So that doesn't mean that I'm right , that doesn't mean they're right , but I started working when I was , I mean , really probably 12 years old and probably full time at 15 . And I don't know if you guys have ever heard the Ashton Kutcher Teen Choice Award speech .
Anyway , moral of the story is his closing on this is you know your whole life you kind of get put in this box and you're doing what you're told to do .
You know you're gonna go to high school , you're gonna go to college , you're gonna get a job , you're gonna do XYZ , you're gonna live in a world that somebody else created , but everything around you somebody else created , so why can't that be yours ? And that's kind of where I was once . I kind of looked around .
It was like man , we built something incredible , but it's still not mine , and so , ultimately , like I don't get to choose the end game for myself , my family , or all these people around me , and you know , that's ultimately what I want .
Yeah , and I think you're at the right stage of your life to kind of make that happen and turn it into something . I mean , you chose this right . I remember we talked you were supposed to go to New York Times or something you were , you were going to be , you had an opportunity there or something .
Yeah , that's hilarious , so you brought that up .
Yeah , so this is what I do , man .
I played football my whole life and I played football and baseball at Oberlin College and I was a very strong writer , yeah , and I got offered internship possibility with the New York Times while I was there , but at the time I wanted to be a college football coach and you know , my aspirations were considerably different .
My cooking career was really like summer to make sure that I have enough money to get me through the school year , and that's where it was . But you know , so , yeah , before that it was football , football , football .
I happened to be a good writer , happened to be a good cook , but yeah , I mean , I mean , I still haven't seen any written work , but you know , that's cool and listen , it's OK . It's OK . I posed something to you years ago and you know , maybe you might find some time to do that before you jump back into this next project full time .
Yeah , we'll see . I bet we can find some time right now . Ok , yeah , yeah .
Yeah , there was a . There was a cool concept . We'll get it . We'll . We'll all talk about it off air , because I'm not letting it out of the bag here .
OK , I still have that outline and I actually started writing the article , but it got about a couple of hundred words and A couple of words and then you had a brain fart .
Yeah , a couple of hundred words out of and done . You know what I mean . Like all right , I've done my job .
I got a lot to say man , yeah , a couple of words on finished you know different topics .
There's a lot of different things you can say on them .
Mm . Hmm , well , I think you two believe it or not , I think you two would get along . So Jeff does a lot with mental health awareness and , you know , substance abuse , stuff like that .
You know he's got a pretty interesting story and you know I feel like you two would connect well in that in that area , probably put out some good supportive , supportive content relating to these subjects . We should probably look at that , we should talk about it .
Yeah , I mean we have one for the Los Angeles American Culinary Federation chapter . I'm going to be sitting on a board and presenting about mental health with LJ Klingberg and Fiona Espinada , and then she's got two other people that are going to be in there too . Gabe is one of them , and I forgot the other gentleman's name .
We're going to be talking about mental health , but I talk about it now on the realm of more of ROI for companies , and that's why it's so important . Like , I don't believe in the six day work week . I think that's absolutely just stupid .
By any means , if you're out there and working for a restaurant right now and you're doing six days a week , I think you should reevaluate what you're doing with your life , because that's not the deal , but you shouldn't .
You shouldn't leave everybody hanging . You shouldn't make a knee jerk decision . No , and you know , because you hurt everybody else . But yeah , you should . I think you should just look at it and be do the best for you .
But you know , here's the thing . I know that when I had two days off in a row , or two days off a week , I know I performed better because I was more energetic .
I was able to recharge my battery , especially when you're so , when you're in the limelight and you have an open kitchen , you can't do certain things , so you have to be on point all the time .
That's exhausting you have no idea .
And we were talking about earlier joking around about Brio , and you know , chef , mike , 30 seconds , chef , don't worry . I mean you were on stage on that one and that that that takes a lot out of you . I don't care .
You can't yell , you have to go on the walk in to do that talk , because there's no way you can yell on the line because everyone can hear you , so you're not throwing pans at anybody , not on that one . No , I've had plenty of those stories where I was throwing out at a great times at Brio , but I mean restaurants at your open kitchen , like that .
You cannot do certain things , you have to act a certain way .
Yeah , your performance . Yeah , it's not your performance . You're on your own stage , hundred percent .
And then how do you get your like when you're going to open up your restaurant and you're looking or you're looking at these different restaurants ? How do you get your inspiration if you're working six days a week ?
That that right there . I mean I was literally thinking about the Boulin opening . I was saying that we did Union before we did Boulin and when we got to the Boulin opening , like I was already just burnt .
And so when you're still trying to develop the last couple of things and trying to make things perfect because it's one thing to do something in the test kitchen , it's another thing to actually carry it over into the kitchen for service and on a daily basis it was just like I don't know what I'm going to do about this , like a sauce that I've made a million
times all of a sudden just couldn't do it . You know , like things like that . Like it was just my brain was fried and yeah , I needed to be there , but who was it helping ? You know , absolutely nobody , and yeah . So , like you're saying , I mean moving forward . You know , there there's the theory about you know why you do things .
It's you know what , why , how you know and you know the why being the entering , and so the way that I've been trying to look at things through life , but also mostly for business , going forward is what is my why and finding people that are consistent with me and that you know that might be slightly different but ultimately , you know where we're at is similar
and can we just bring each other up in that manner ? Because , yeah , money's important , but money is definitely not my why . You know so family , the people that I care about around me , relationships like this , you know those are the things that are my why . Loving to cook , that you know that's part of my why .
You know the conundrum . The conundrum in a lot of cases and it was for me , you know , because you can't unless you're some savant or you know you have a . You know you have a war chest of cash . You got to earn your way up . You know to learn to be able to do right .
And you know , and I keep thinking back to the 10 years that I put to that company , where you know it was 11 months , no day off , but it was really almost 10 years of just , you know , balls to the wall .
And I think back and I'm like you know , man , if I would have put that time into me right , because I was very successful there , I did a lot of big things for that operation . But what if I would have put that into me ? Well , I couldn't have because I didn't .
I learned a lot while I was there and I was with some people who had some pretty interesting lives and experiences that opened my eyes to different ways of doing things right . So I don't know that I could have , and I'm sure I could have .
I mean , I have the , the abilities and the wherewithal , but they're not all put together yet and nothing is structured properly . So you have to . I think you have to go through it . You know , like you you have . You had to go through all of what you went through and Jeff and you know John , all of us have to go .
Yeah , we have a saying , is called seasoning .
You gotta go through the seasoning , yeah and that's , that's point blank .
I mean , I didn't learn straight marination man . Exactly I didn't learn my what myself worth was until I was 50 , 51 years old when I said screw this shit . I'm gonna Sorry for guessing second time for me , but I Happy I wasn't first .
We've got to put a hundred bucks in the cup .
Oh now all of a sudden , but it to me just came down to the and I love Ivan Orkin and he said it the best I'm gonna cook the food I want to cook and I don't give a , you know , beep , and that's the truth and I learned that .
And when she start cooking what you want to cook , your cooking changes , your style changes and yeah , that's exactly what I was trying to get at before .
It's like I feel like you know my whole career I worried about . Was I living up to who I wanted the owner to ? You know who the owner wanted me to be ? Or you know my regional or Whoever ? What are these other chefs in the community ?
Think about me , whatever else , ultimately like that , once you realize that none of that matters at all whatsoever , like it's all from inside . That's what actually matters . Like that , that's when you can really get somewhere .
Yeah , that's when the white Pope goes off .
You know the aha moment . It's kind of when . It's kind of when Vader strikes down Obi-Wan Kenobi and Obi-Wan becomes more powerful than you can ever imagine .
You know what I'm saying ?
That's kind of what that's , kind of what this all is . You know and like , look , look what we're doing here with with walk-and-talk media .
Come on , you know , before this endeavor , if somebody would have said to me yeah , you're gonna do videos , and you know podcasts and those , we started talking in July last year , so we're not even well , just past the year .
Yeah , coming up to the year when we started doing the podcast .
Well , the podcast is another story . I mean people . I had people telling me to eat three years ago hey , you should do a podcast . I don't like you're an idiot . I'm like , no , I'm gonna do a podcast . Who the hell listens to these things ? I Don't . I never listen to them . I didn't have time for that . You know already . Didn't think I did .
You know you do now right . So but , but , but I totally focused on on video . You know , videos to me is where it's at , but as it in retrospect videos and what we do with you know , restaurant recipes and the dirty dash with our , with our video series is fantastic , but with a , with the podcast we can get . So deep .
Well , you also have a community . Now you have the community followers .
Right , and it's because it's different than than just with video , the videos . The video is a terrific side dish . Right , you can't put out of just a plate with just a , you know , a piece of meat . Right , you have to . I mean , you can , and I'm not glad we eat it .
But you , you , you want to have your accoutrements , you want to have others , you need the color , you need the other , you know Textures and flavor and all you know , all these things that are on the okay .
Well , with a , a food-based media company , you need to have Multiple platforms in order to deliver a great experience To whoever the audience or guest is . Right here , and we're in that position now and like , look , look man , like you get to Jeff , you get to tell your story and and you have a story right .
I mean , you are a yenta bird , I gotta tell you . But I mean , but your story , you're gonna in all , no , but in all in all respect . It's like you have a very interesting story and and I'm glad that we're able to to be that platform to get that word out because it helps people .
Do you know what I mean ? Yeah , it's funny . You mentioned that and I apologize for interrupting you dirty , but I had some people actually Reading the book in the rough draft and they're like you have no idea how much this has helped . And that's exactly what I want to do .
I mean because I tell stories about my mental health because there I know that one person out there that could be listening that's .
That's the one person I want to hit and doesn't it seem like every single time you have a conversation about mental health , there is at least someone around with an earshot that is like , oh my gosh , thank you so much because they're going through those same things and like , hey , until you start to , you know , have that self-realization and start trying to work
on yourself , like it's a scary situation and you don't want to be looked upon as the person that's going to therapy or the person that you know it's weak .
It looks weak well . Yeah , I'm not saying that it necessarily is Weak , but the appearance is such right well it's , it's the society's view of Mental health .
Like for me when I tried to commit suicide , when I was going to go tell my parents . One of the things I freaked out about at 18 was I had Jack Nicholas with the one who flew over the cuckoo's necks with the solution jacket yeah , that was the image with the pink padded room when I went to go tell my parents .
That's what was going to happen to me and that was because what society dictated . You know , fast forward , after my ex-father law completed suicide , it was funny to hear one side of my family being and asking questions about how he passed and blah , blah , blah , but then my other side of the family was quiet .
Well , later on I found out that my great-grandmother and my great-uncle both completed suicide . So it's strange to see how the family Interpreted because they had one side had that direct contact with that Horrible thing that we have to go through now than the other side didn't . So it kind of you kind of sit there and say to yourself that's another aha moment .
You know the reflections too about saying to yourself , looking back 35 years ago , I wouldn't be here today having this talk , right , I wouldn't be where I am or who I am today .
You know the the whole situation it's . It deserves more Dialogue . I , especially in this industry , correct , and I , and you know , it's something that I , it's something that is near and dear to me as well .
I Do look at things a little bit differently , you know , and I , because you know , I look at myself and you know , I think I think every man and I'm not gonna speak for females , you know , but I'm gonna speak for the male mind I think every man , male , whether you're in your later teens into your 20s , I think everybody thinks about it at least once ,
everybody does .
I did .
Hmm , but I didn't think about it in a way where , you know , I would outline it and then look to execute , literally , figuratively , whatever , like no . But I think , whenever I felt down , or whenever I do , even whenever I start getting into like a slump , I always think of , I Always think of a situation where it's like sports .
Right , I don't live my life by , you know , sports mantras anymore , right , I think there's more important things . But I love sport , I love the actual playing of sports , but I don't like to follow it anymore .
But I do remember , you know , when it's like fourth quarter and there's two minutes left and you still got a shot , and I remember when I would play on teams and the people , those who would give up , I just couldn't understand it .
Pick your f and pants up and give everything that you have and if you have to leave it there on the field , at least you tried it . You know what I mean . So I take that , that feeling today , because I still remember it vividly . I Take that and whenever I feel like I'm falling down , I go wait a minute , wait a minute , wait a minute .
If I don't do it on my team , no , I mean with you guys . I'm saying with you know , team you , team you , team Carl , then who the hell is gonna do it right ? Mm-hmm , and that's what I just get pumped up and I'm like , alright , and I'll start to well , you have two kids .
Yeah , how many kids do you have chef to ? So I have one kid and one of the things I've noticed with my daughter Is that she's constantly beating herself up . And I always tell her this you have to be your own cheerleader , because there's gonna be enough people in your life they're gonna try to bring you down .
So what you have to do is look at yourself , yeah , and you have to pump yourself up . Mommy and daddy will do that all day long , because that's what we're supposed to do .
When she messes up , we're gonna tell her you messed up , but the same token , we're there to pick her up the pieces , but to have that mindset which she leaves the door and she goes out and kids pick on her or whatever . You know I was telling she said well , someone said I was stupid . And what was your response ? You know ? Did you back down ?
Did you do anything ? Did you slap the person of it ? But again , it's how do you contradict what the other people are saying or how do you combat all the crap that's going on in today's world ?
Yeah , you know it's funny or not , I don't know , but I remember , you know , grew up Grip in the 70s and in the 80s . Right , that's what I was coming around . You were more in the 80s . Let's be honest , I was John and I was born in the early 70s . We , john and I , are in 70s .
You guys are older , yeah , but at the end of the day , I remember getting into , actually , remember , like I was living in New York at the time , you know , I was that young , like you know , four or five , six , seven years old , and you , you meet those kids in those classes in that kindergarten Age and you can see the ones who are gonna turn out like crap
. You know they're bullies , that you know , whatever . And I remember there was a kid who used to always always break my balls , constantly and Like , I remember , like I even saw a picture not too long ago of my kindergarten class and he even had like this for the picture , like this .
But I remember one day I had this little blue plastic boat , you know , and I was just , you know , your kid , you walking around the thing and he took it from me and then he pushed me down and he got on top of me , you know , like , holding my shoulders down , and I just remember , like thinking to myself you , son of a , like whatever you would think of
his kid as a , as a , as your bad word or whatever . That's what I was thinking about , this , this kid . But I remember pushing him off and I punched him in the face . He never did it again .
And then after that I kind of you know I mean I was a little bit probably prone to fights and violence for a long time , but I did that my entire up until my my last . You know stupid thing was like when I was like 33 , or 82 over that stuff . But you know , what I'm getting at is the kids who were , who were causing the grief for everybody .
I would always confront them and whether I won or lost , I either became friends with them or they left me alone . And that was my entire schooling career , from elementary school out into the world .
That's how it was . Well , you still have that in the restaurant industry , not like the fighting . You've got the guys that like to do the shoulder .
Oh yeah .
On the line . Well , I mean , you guys never gotten to a fist to cuff in the walk-in or out in the back in the alley .
Yeah , but there's , there's there's yeah , definitely , I've definitely done that . But like what I'm talking about ? Like you're on the line and one of your subordinates takes the shoulder to you . That's so disrespectful , oh man . Yeah , you have no clue . Like when they drop their shoulder , you're like did you just seriously try to take me down that way ?
And that's not going to happen again .
Well , those are people you end up letting go . Once you're in a position where you're in charge , you know you don't have to , you don't need to flex anymore . You know , and I think that's well you know , as you get older . Some people are lucky . Some people end up getting you know their advancements in their careers at a young age . That's great .
But everybody else it takes a little time . So everybody's got something to prove until they don't anymore , and that's when you can change your . You know your methodologies or your ways , and that's how it was for me .
I think one of the things in the industry we need to change is the way that our mentors are mentoring the next wave of chefs . And I think you know , like when I went , you were talking about it and you mentioned it pots and pans being thrown at you .
I remember back in 94 , 96 , when I was working at Bonaventure , the chef's name was Small , he used to throw pots and pans and knives at us . Like who told you you were closed , chef , it's 10 , 15, . We closed at 10 .
There's no waters coming through , but that's what we had to deal with and that's what we , you know , I especially had to deal with it because that was my externship . I couldn't leave until they said , hey , we want to hire you . Like no thanks .
Yeah , I grew that 100% . I mean , you know kind of the same thing that I was saying earlier . You know younger kitchen days it was very much so like this is what you're going to do and this is the way that it is , and period .
And you know , even as a young sous chef and early on in my executive chef career , you know that 100% was the way that it was . You know , you might make a couple of people cry throughout the day and you didn't really feel bad about it .
I wasn't even in the kitchen and I used to get pans thrown at me .
You know what I mean , oh yeah we do that at servers , yeah , but like now you know like it's like you look back on it and it's like well , did that person really deserve to you know the rest of the rest of the evening that are going to be feeling like they did .
I think , there's some people that definitely , like I , look back at my career and some of the people that I got into , you know fisticuffs with or argued with or became argumentative with I think they did somewhat .
But then you also look back and go what was going on in their life , like outside of the restaurant when they came to work , and we don't know what everyone else is going through .
True , story , but that doesn't enable you or allow you to be an asshole .
Well , that's what I'm saying . I'm saying when you were that way to that person , we didn't know they were just being a jerk to us because maybe they were having a bad day . We never really looked into it , like back in the day Smoll never used to come up to us to find out how we were doing . I remember , you know Chef Peter James from Johnson Wales .
He said to me he goes , I don't care if you have one employee or a thousand employees , you shake everyone's hand when they come in and when they come out , when you leave . And I lived that . You know I lived that to this day . I lived it . I remember working at the Marriott .
I used to take me that much longer to leave because wanted to make sure I said goodbye to my staff because I felt that was respect . It's the better way .
It was taught to me day one at Cameron Mitchell restaurants and I remember the first time that I met Cameron , he walked into the kitchen like comes in the front door , walks straight to the kitchen , goes straight to the dish tank , introduces himself , shakes the hands of the dishwasher , has then made his way around the kitchen and introduced himself and said hello
to everyone and talked to them , and he used to say 30 seconds every day with every employee .
Do you know , and that is so taxing to do that . People , I mean people , people who but the amount you get paid for that ? No , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no .
It's a necessary thing to do , but what happens is for people who haven't reached a place in their career where they would have to do that , they don't understand how much it takes from you to do that , your underlings , they look at the people in charge like they're just dollar signs and you know , but they don't realize what it takes to get to that level .
And then , once you're at that level , how to stay at that level and be successful . Nobody looks at that because they're looking at their own bank account or they're looking at they're not looking at how they're frivolously spending . They're money like they're just , they're short-sighted . Is when I'm getting that ?
Yeah , I literally when you were saying that , like the end of my term with next level brands , like I said , nobody's fault . You know it was time for a change for me .
But one of the big things was is at the end of the night , like I was mentally drained , didn't want to be there and didn't even want to say bye to everybody on my way out and that was part of what made me me you know , and that's what .
that's a little bit of you dying , yeah , and like you brought up .
You know your daughter and whatever you know . If you're home , you know you're depressed and whatever you're trying to tell her . You know like . You know you're saying stick up for yourself and whatnot . Like to say that to your daughter , but you know , you're not gonna go and stick up for yourself and build a life for yourself .
And you know , and you know I think that's what we're all trying to say it's a tough industry . It's a , you know , everybody's got a busy schedule , like I mean , I think it's imperative to fill that schedule up with stuff that truly matters to you and that's gonna fulfill you .
Yeah , there's a female restaurant owner in St Pete . She owns three restaurants . I want to say it's Natalia Levy , but I don't know if it's her last name . She's very in with Jackie Pessinger from the American Colonial Federation . I follow her on LinkedIn .
Every Monday morning she sends out a newsletter to her entire staff about mental health kudos to an owner like that , because it shows and again , it's ROI . You know , most of these big conglomerates are looking . Well , we got to get people in here , we got to do well , hey , why don't you focus on your employees that you have ?
Stop the churn , stop the bleeding and hemorrhaging . Treat them like human beings , don't treat them like a number .
And I think the other thing too is if you actually have lineups and you do pre-shifts and you talk about the mental health and you bring that up and they have an open door policy and you get them help , like from Ben's friends and Chow and all that different stuff , it shows the employees that you really give a crap about who they are and not just a number .
You know , even if you took that at the face value of it , right On an ROI perspective , from an ROI perspective , it costs so much more to keep rehiring and training , and then not only the cost that it takes to re or to onboard new personnel , but think of the loss of quality and food or , yeah , or dilution of service .
Yeah , 100% .
You know , and that goes across the whole , all work , all industries , not just necessarily food , but especially food .
You know , when you have people in strong positions who are in charge of stuff , who know recipes or who know you know who run scheduling or something like this , if you don't take care of those people and they leave oof , your whole system falls apart .
And then you know , then you're the guy like whoever the next person , then you have to deal with all of it . It's terrible .
And chef mentioned it you know like when you really care about your food , your food's gonna be better . So , regardless of what that is , so same thing with you know , whatever you're doing , you know your people are your biggest asset and you take care of your people and your bottom line is gonna take care of itself . Inherently , your food's gonna be better .
It's gonna be more consistent . Your service team is going to be much happier , so they're gonna drive the sales , obviously , and then , in turn , you know it's gonna give everybody a better quality of life as well .
As long as you know if you're steering the ship , you know you gotta make sure that you know those things are what is important to you , and every decision is made , you know , based upon that . You know and trying to solve that problem .
You know , when I was traveling and went up to New Hampshire , there's a marketplace , it's a market , it's a supermarket , it's called Marketplace and I was told by Keith and a couple other people that the original CEO they didn't like what was going on , like the board didn't like the CEO , so they wanted to have this whole thing .
They would try to get rid of the CEO . There's pictures of this guy mopping his floor . He's like in his 60s and he is the CEO of MarketPast and he had this love for everything he did with his people , that not only within the actual supermarket , the people that came in there , but his actual employees too .
They all went on strike and they had to re-input the guy in as the CEO and to this day the guy's still the CEO of Market Basket because the way he treated his employees and they revolted against the board and to this day , that guy still has it .
I mean that's pretty cool . I mean you didn't say New Hampshire , no , I didn't say . New Hampshire , because I'm back now for two weeks . Yeah , I mean , what doesn't count then ? Is it really even a ?
place called New Hampshire . You know , does that even exist ? You got to call Keith .
Yeah , New Hampshire , or you can get your dragon buddy .
German , oh yeah , German .
German , german , yeah , yeah , that'd be cool . You just shot him out .
What's up ? Yeah well , you got to shoot out Vicki Webster and Vicki Watt .
She's got to do some stuff there . And then you got the Amy . I always got to say Amy yay she's .
you know what she's got to come up now . Even her mother is saying that when you're going to bring them bread . I mean , amy , we're wondering . John's shaking his head .
Listen , I'm not going to . I'm going to block you on all social media . I promise I want the bread . Where's the bread ?
It's all we're saying . We want some bread , I want the bread . Yeah , we got Suzanne over on LinkedIn . She always calls us out on everything we do , which is sweet of her to do that as well .
Yeah , now you know what the community is growing . And again , people .
Oh wait no .
I got one . Fiona she did one that was huge .
How many times are you going to cut me off ? All the time Chef's Roll did a anti-convention in Los Angeles , san Diego , rather they do . Chef's Roll does a great job . Well , she came out and went on there and like their social media thing and she goes . Hey , have you guys ever heard of this podcast called the Walk and Talk ? Oh really .
Yeah , so she was a huge shout out .
That's why I wanted to interrupt you . I did not want to forget Fiona doing that for us .
So thank you , fiona . Fiona is awesome , and we had a little couple of side chats too . Yes , it's good , it's cool .
She's a chef and she's also a roller derby girl .
Yeah , awesome , I mean right , I don't know . I think there's a show just for that . I think we can make a reality show .
I'd like to produce a show . I want to .
Fiona , fiona , hit me up , we're going to produce that .
Yeah , her sister is also one of the other people that roller blade with her or roller derby yeah . I do remember watching the roller derby 70s , 80s , when there was no football on .
Yeah , I do remember that my uncle used to put it on . He's like hey call , you want to watch ? Come on , we're going to go watch all of this , all right ? Yeah , all the people in my family talk the same . They all sound like that .
Hey , you know , forget about it , I want to do this , I want to do that , like yeah , all right , sounds like push from Sopranos .
It's all of that , yeah .
It's crazy . You know what ?
I'm talking about .
I absolutely Policies over here , you understand it's .
OK , yeah .
I mean listen , you're close , oh yeah .
We're just cousins . I mean , you guys invented the bagels , we stole them . Do you know what I'm saying ?
Oh , dirty , dirty , dirty .
And we ran the numbers , meyer , yeah .
Yeah , I mean somebody's got . I don't want to do it . No , that's why Meyer Lance Give it a think of all the reverse theft that went on . You know what I'm saying ? All right , but we do need to do . I mean , I don't know how many times we're going to talk about this . I feel so uncomfortable about October 23 , about the party .
He thinks that we can't pull it off in less than a month . It's not even a month and he's like you're going to be able to do this .
People need to listen , not for nothing , and we can pull a party off where there's actual cocktails and food .
You know we need to have people go to the thing I think Tampa food mom's going to be there . I've already reached out to her .
The five of us will have a great .
No , I know it's not the five of us , there's seven .
I start thinking you can pull together that quick .
Bro . No , I see , like I am not a party thrower and you know what I mean , I throw it . I would throw more if I knew everybody would show up . Do you know what I'm saying ? Like , I would do it , I just .
I don't know . All you have to say is by invitation only free food and people will come . I'm sweating right now . Well you're schvitzing .
Yeah , because you just got done eating . Yeah , my pun . I'm the schvitzing on the whole thing . Yeah , you know . When are you going to make , when are you going to bring some can issues in , or something ?
Was I supposed to ? Did I get a mo ?
I'm . I'm in a . I'm in the .
You want to finish ? I want to .
I love can issues . I lived in New York . That was part of the hot food lunch .
Well , no , you have to do the Savoy , the Jewish donut , those are incredible .
Look , I'm not asking to be introduced to new stuff , I'm just looking for the dry .
Can ish ?
I want to finish .
Yeah , the Jewish doughnuts . Not that old , I mean , I'm not that new , rather , yeah , I kind of had it . Well , I'll make , I'll make one next time . Ok .
All right . So are we comfortable , though , with this this all October 20 , 30 ?
Yeah Well , like I told you , I got four pigs to fabricate or butcher when I get home later today .
What are those pigs is ?
going to be at the party in some form . What's what's your ?
name OK .
I haven't named it yet , I'll let you know , all right .
But all right , I know I'm not going to get what I'm looking for here .
All right , you just want more deets and stuff like that . I want details . Yeah , I have to get with a person to my left to make sure you can do a flyer for it .
Yeah Well , the person to my right and your left , she's busy , he's busy . Well , listen , listen . There's a lot of things that are moving around in high speed here and real soon we're going to have some kind of a merch thing going . You know , hats , shirts , Adam , just get perked up like a mere cat . I saw that he did .
He looked like a school like a good .
Good .
Yeah , yeah , I got to get like six shirts to put together , though for you the tablecloth , you know whatever .
So it's like the whole parachute .
It works well .
Yeah , it just fits every position . When you played football the front line back .
Yeah , yeah , I mean these days , yes , yeah , you guys are body shaming me now .
No , no , we're just saying we're talking about mental health and you walked inside the door , there was no . I got to go on a diet , Thanks guys . There was . There was an eclipse when you walked in the door . I don't know You're not Listen .
it's not because it isn't that you like your big bone . I'm a big fatty . You're not a fatty , you're like a big dude , like , but . But you were what a linebacker . Yeah , ok , all right , so wait . So in college , what were you ? What did you ? Were you Wayne ?
I was . I played at about two 15 in college , yeah yeah . Now I'm more like three 50 . So not quite as fleet of foot as I once was .
He's one offensive linebacker or offensive lineman , instead of the defensive linebacker .
My brother in law played offensive line for UM back in the 90s under Butch Davis . I think it was .
Butch .
Davis , yeah , butch Davis . Anyway , when we first met , when I first met my , my wife , we had gone to this . You know her family was a vacate , you know they were doing a hotel thing down in Miami or something . So we met them there and it was like , right in the very beginning . Anyway , he's like six , four , he's two , 50 . He's a big dude , you know .
I mean he actually has the bench press record at UM at like 500 , whatever pounds it still holds today . Long story short , granted , I was in better shape at the time . It was like nine years ago . We're in the pool and we're starting to talk about like the 80s and WWF , you know , hulk Hogan , and when you're a brother , you know that kind of stuff .
Before I know it we're locked up right and I'm like oh crap . But but here's the thing I felt . I was like in good shape for about 20 seconds . I had 20 good seconds and I and I saw his face . He , for a minute he was like oh wait , how is this happening , you know ?
And then I was on his shoulders like a sack of potatoes , like literally like dead weight , like if you were carrying a bag of onions out of the cooler , like that was me on his shoulders . And then he was , you know , he threw me like it was yeah , he's a cool cat , don't worry , you know he's fun , he's a good dude . Screw , you guys .
The best . At least we have cameras now that they can actually see the face , what we were doing .
But John's face is the best we need to have like a he needs to be like permanent , like . Yes , good job , all right , my man . So , adam , is there anything that you want to reveal about your next project , or is that still on the hush ?
It's not really on the hush , just trying to find a location right now and trying to get some things figured out , but hopefully closing in on that soon OK .
And I presume that we're going to be doing some stuff together on that place , I would assume . So I'm assuming that I'm just saying yes and I'm not going to take no for an answer . You know what I'm saying .
He's trying to say he wants to be the official taster , just so you know . Yeah .
When you do your menu testing . I know what I'm talking about . Ok , I know what I'm talking about . All right , peninsula food , malina International , like you know , southern provision there's so many . Oh my God , go to our website , check everybody out who we're working with . Support these companies . All of you food industry people make it happen .
Jeff , you're awesome . John , baby always love you . Adam , thanks for being on the show and we are out . Bless everybody .