Strive To Be The Best (w/ Violet Palmer)

following your passion text guts. It takes hard work because you will get a lot of naysayers, folks trying to tell you what you can and what you cannot do, And honestly, you can't fall them because they can't see or fuel your passion. Which leads me to my special guest, Violet Palmer, the first female referee in the n b A. Violet Palmer is a trollblazer whose passion is fueled by

hard work. From a young age, she found a deep love for basketball, and when she was unable to pursue playing ball professionally, she still found a way to get in the game, or some may actually say that the game found her how fast can I learn? How good can I get? How soon can I get to the next season? Because I want to be better than I

was last. Nevertheless, violence, hard work, and passion pushed past those naysayers who felt she should just go back to the kitchen, and she made history and paved the way for future female referees, not only in NBA but across male dominated sports in general. If that's not inspirational, I don't know what is. So I hope you enjoyed listening to this conversation as much as I enjoyed having it. So without further ado, it's time for your dose of

vitamin D vitaminy right with me and get excited about Hello. Hi, how are you doing? Are you? I'm so good. It's so good to see your face. Oh, thank you. Wait a minute, Violet Palmer, May I just say happy anniversary to you? Well, thank you so much. I know twenty six years somebody is still putting up with me. How my wife, I have to say congratulations to you and Tanya. I saw you guys, and the grandma was like, wow, that's love at its finest. Oh, thank you, thank you.

I'm blessed, No, no doubt, no doubt and I'm blessed to have you here right now because we've got some stuff to talk about. Okay, alright, already shooting birst female NBA referee, What yeah, that's me. Yeah, No, seriously, like what the first Yes, you know, money don I can honestly tell you that. Uh you know you're saying that now.

It's it's come to fruition. I think when I started, I that was never ever even a thought process, because you know, when you're going through what you're going through, it was about work and survival and trying to make it and trying to just be the best that I could be. That I never even thought about first pioneer, barrier breaker, you go, I'm serious. I'm just being honest.

We're not even on my mind, none of that. It was later in my career, were after you know, establishing myself, and everybody you know kept saying it, and I was like, wow, you know what I did do that? I am that one. I am that Yes, so I embrace it now, Yes I do, thank you, and I accept all of the accolades and I'll take it. And you know, it's just happy to be able to say something or do something to help some other young student athlete just get to

where they want to get to. And and you know, I just felt like your story is not only for athletes, but anyone that has a dream, that's going after a passion or a purpose. That's what I said, right, I don't even disagree, And I can honestly tell you that I found my passion, no question about. Okay, So let's dive in. So first we must say we met through

a mutual friend, Mr Timothy Snell. And actually when I was on his show Curvey Style with Timothy SNeW, I was getting I don't know if Tanya was doing my hair, did she touch up my makeup? But I remember her and I having like a whole dialogue. And then of course we're all hanging out and you know, just doing our thing, and that I met you, and I think we ran into each other a couple of times over at win nail spot. No, did you rever gonna win on welsher? You know what? Probably maybe I'm winning is

one of your girlfriends, And I'm thinking of one. Her hair is like a honey blonde in this natural and I think she used to happen right my duty duty? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, I would always see them up there. So that's how we know each other and how we met. And you know, I'm sitting here and I was thinking about, you know, the story and how how to inspire people because a lot of times people come about and they're not sure what their passion is, they're not sure what the purposes.

They feel like maybe they can't They've got so many excuses. But it's something to be said when you are one that it's establishing the blueprint of it all. Thank you, because it's like, how did you fathom to imagine? We'll see when we talk about vitamin D, we talk about the inspiration that's from within. It is it is, but you most of us don't know how to find it, well hello, what it is? Or we don't know what we could do to get it. And I think for me, I can honestly say that I did. I I've found

mine pretty early. Now. I didn't know how far it would take me, but I found it. And I just wanted to be the best in my profession. And you know what, I can honestly say, right place, right time, right gender. I took advantage of every single opportunity that afforded me. Wow, that's really literally you know. But again you have to kind of step out on faith and and want to be, you know, just be the best

you can be. You know, it is a little scary too, you know, because I was established in my work career after graduating and got into officiating and it was I enjoyed it. It was easy money, you know, it was just fun for me. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about that because we think about it. You're from content, you know, you'd say you play ball yourself. You're a point guard, cal polly. So I'm interested to know because you look at your life in a span thirty forty

years later, still being in the game. Right, Uh huh, how would you say or when did you fall in love with basketball? Oh? I was a young kid. You know my mom, I can honestly say she she tried her best. She you know, she put me in the in the yellow dresses and the pink dresses and then and the cute shoes and you know, do my hair.

And I can literally remember God once, you know, and I kind of went from that little girl and I and my brother was three years younger than me, so we were two peas in a pot, and all we wanted to do together was be outside playing with our friends. And literally I tried every single sport. I played everything, and it wasn't like at that moment as a kid growing up it was just basketball. I did them all. I read track in school, volleyball, um softball. I mean

I was a really really good softball player. Literally thought I was almost thought I was a better softball player and the basketball player. But my love was basketball. So of course, obviously, once I got um to high school, I had a really really good high school coach who took a lot of time with me and really helped with as far as recruiting, because you know, in today's world, for for at that time, Title nine had just kind of kicked in and understanding that possibly I could get

a scholarship to college. Now, for those who are unfamiliar, what does Title nine mean? Title nine is what what came about to help women in sports? Or oh yeah, we women were not receiving scholarships. So of course, once Title nine kicked in, it really provided funds for universities and colleges to now allow women and for all the sports and colleges to now be provided scholarships to be a of us go to school for free. So I was one of those students. I went to school for free.

My cal Poli Pomona paid my tuition. The only thing that my parents had to help me with was my books. I had housing, I had uh food state in the dorms. All of that was paid for from athletics. So let me ask you this though. If they had to pass something called the Title nine just so that females could get scholarships to play sports, what was it like being a female coming up playing sports in general? Was it accepted? It was accepted, but there wasn't you women couldn't go

to different universities and have it paid for. Yeah, they were, they were, you know, of course women could still play. But here again we had different rules. There was not there was funds, you know, there was no funding and title When Title nine came in, it really helped with the funding. And of course now we already know that it's pretty equal for young boys and young girls wanting

to make it in college. Now you can go to I mean you can get a scholarship and probably basket weaving if we're good at it, you know, for just a good example. But all sports now provide young girls and opportunity the same opportunities that men and young boys are provided, women and young girls are provided, which their

title nine kicked in. So for me, you know, it was one of those where in high school and thinking, you know, if I can, of course get a scholarship to school and my parents don't have to pay, and this is what I love to do, it's a win win. I get a free education, I can play a sport that I love. And for me, I just thought there was no w n B A if you once you finish school, you know, if you still love the game, you would have to go overseas and play, and of

course for me, I didn't want to do that. So I'm thinking I graduated, it's time for me to get a job. Um kind of dibbled and dabbled in officiating because because of my major in school and just being an athlete, and found once I kind of got my feet wet in officiating, it was over. I felt it. It was it was like a lightbulb just came on. I'm like, oh my god, I love this, this is exciting,

it's different, it's fun. I can, I can And initially john' don I'll be honest, I just really wanted to stay in shape, stay close to the game that I love, and make a little extra money. Okay. So it was insane, like, oh, I want to play ball like that is the dream. It was just something, okay, absolutely not had no idea that officiating would afford me. I'm saying even before officiating, because I'm thinking to the point of how you stay connected with the game for so many years, the love

of just playing ball. Right, So I'm imagining you go ahead and you're in the n C Double A Championship, you won eighty six right, Uh huh I did did you did you feel like, oh my gosh, because you didn't want to go overseas that you feel depleted? Did you feel like it was over? Because I'm thinking, like, you're in the rush every time you get on the court, you got the fans screaming at you, the blood is

pumping in your veins. To like, not that it's anything wrong, but maybe going to an office job, right or perhaps was that an adjustment, you know what? To be honest with you, when I um, when I of course graduated, there was kind of a pause for me saying, Okay, now what do I do and now and of course that pause being okay, it's time to go in the real world. It's time to get a job. Um. And that's where the officient payment because that was like a part time still can be a part of the game.

Still love it, still make a little part time money. And that's really where the officiating part kind of transformed for me personally. Where with that transition, once you know, I knew that I love the sport and it afforded me a phenomenal education which was free, which really helped my parents because of course, after talking to my parents, they both said, you know what, thank you, because we didn't know how we were gonna pay for your education.

We didn't know if we were gonna have to possibly take a second out on our home, you know, to do whatever they had to do to help my brother and I get to school. Luckily, we both received basketball scholarships, which was awesome, you know, um. But after that, it's where the officiating came in and where the love of a different aspect of basketball came from. Because for me, it was like the lightbulb came on. It was instant.

I love it, I'm passionate about it. I'm gonna be six as full, still not knowing how successful I was gonna be, because at this point I didn't have any aspirations to get in the NBA. I didn't even really care. I was. I was very very happy being a collegiate women's basketball official, very very happy with that. Could have I would have been doing it to this day, right right to this day, I'm sure if the NBA hadn't

knocked on my door. But again, I go back to right place, right time, right gender, because during this whole collegiate you know, time frame, and I think I spent eight eight years being a collegiate official and and working my way up, and that's how I you know, I was able to work five the final fours and the championship games, and and still being one of the best in the country on the college side, afforded me this opportunity to have an opportunity to re for in the NBA.

What what okay? Where are you? What happened? Where are you when you get this inquiry? This request? This is hilarious? I am I had. I was at home received the phone call true story from the late Dr Aaron Wade. He was Dale Garrison's assistant at the time. Dale Garrison was the head of the officials in the NBA doc Damn. Dr Wade caused me on the phone, he says, um Ms Palmer. He introduced himself, told me who he was, and I'm sitting there on the hold the phone, don

and I go, yeah, right, someone's calling me. They worked for the NBA, you know, trying to scout women to see if they would like to be in the program. I honestly thought it was a joke, so I really was like really he and he kind of chuckled because he said, you know, um, and he and he kind of had this slow drawl the way he spoke, and he said, you know violent, Um, most people that when I called them, they're like so excited, because of course, as soon as you say NBA, everyone's like, oh my god,

I'm in. And he goes you you were like, uh really, And of course we kind of chuckle. But he he went through to explain that they were looking to train some women. I was one of those women. Would I be interested? Um. He asked me to send him a couple of videotapes from my college games. He actually saw me and he was recommended from book a Turner, which was another big time college referee at the time, and one of my mentors so received my information from him,

called me explained the whole program. After I knew it wasn't a joke, I of course said, of course I would be interested. It was free, didn't cost me a dime other than my time. Of course I'll try it. So literally us been known to me. A week later, I received NBA rule books Wow, an NBA UH jersey to referee in, and some whole packet telling me, and I think it was a three week span or might have been two weeks two to three weeks span, that I would now be going to Salt Lake City, UH

for an NBA referee training for like eight days. And that's how it started. And I said, I'm in why not? And that's literally how I received a phone call and the opportunity, and that's kind of where everything started for me. So how many of you all are there? Is it just you and d cancer? Is there a g? What is this great question? It was just her and I and we were in training with I think it was

about fifteen guys in our in our in our particular session. Um, and what they have you do is you know, like even now like in Vague and of course obviously we didn't have it this summer, you know how they have that summer pro league like invents and all. So that's the same training that I actually attended. I just attended mine in Salt Lake City and I was of course, which was great for me because I was able to

stay home. It afforded me to go to law because we had a summer pro league here in in Long Beach as well at the Pyramid. So I actually attended both of those um with the same guys. So literally you it was her and I and these fifteen men, and we had classroom in the morning from about eight thirty until about noon, and your games started. You had a lunch break and you're the game started about two thirty. There was four games a day, so you either worked

the first game, second game, third game, or fourth game. Um, it was all the proteins with all their free agents, the draft picks, um, the players from overseas that are trying to get in the NBA. So everyone of course obviously within this whole summer summer Pro league are trying to get into the NBA as well as officials. So It's like you have the officiating side and you have

the basketball side. And that was the opportunity. Literally walked into a classroom, had no idea what to expect, um met these fifteen guys, and I can honestly say that those fifteen guys are some of my best friends right to this day. So you guys were welcomes with open arms. I wouldn't say welcome with open arms. I would say had to earn your stripes respect right. Absolutely. It wasn't. It was one of those where, of course we you know, everybody was polite and nice and you know, it wasn't

anything like that. But as far as putting in the work and going on the court and refereeing and all, you had to earn the stripes. You had to learn the NBA rules, who had to learn the mechanics, and you had to go out every single night and prove and well, I should say improve every single day, because if you didn't, you wouldn't be asked to come back. So it was either it's either used. This was like a survivor before with survivor you know, cotta sorta kinda

survival for officiating. In so many words, um not as dramatic as like surviving as a show, but in our way, yes, it was because if you didn't perform, if you didn't do well, then you wouldn't be asked back. And I actually did that for three for three summers. Wow, I actually got hired by the NBA. Wow. Yeah, I did

it for three summers now and again. So here you are, so at the time that you're doing the training, are you as well as officiating still in the collegiate level with the women, Yes, I am so, which was great for me. Um. I was able to in the wintertime do all my college stuff. I still had my full time job, might do all this. I'm still working for the City of Love, so I still I had my

full time time. I'm officiating my college stuff. And then the summertime, I spend the entire summer training UM with for the NBA to try to be an NBA referee. So during this time it was kind of a whirlwind for me those three years. Was I had a lot going on. Um. I can honestly say, you know time you thought I was crazy, you know, And it was so funny because I remember telling her like that last year,

I go, you know, it's really not that bad. I just you know, hopefully, you know, things will It'll change because I was super busy. Um and even that last see that last summer, I threw the w n b A in there because I worked. I worked first um inaugurable season for the w n b A, so it was almost like full time job collegiate referee. Summer started, did this, did my summer pro league? The w n b A started, did did my w NBA season? And luckily knock on wood October, the NBA called and said,

you're hired. Wait a minute, where you at. What's happening? What is going on? You know you that's a great question. I was literally in Salt Lake City. Uh, I had a exhibition game. You know how the preseason we called an exhibition season. Everybody else kind of calls it the preseason. So I was literally had a game, uh the Utah Jazz. It was probably, I think my fourth exhibition game that at the beginning of the season. So I was in

my hotel room. Lock Thorn, he was the vice president of operations for officials at the time, called me on the phone and said, Uh, are you sitting down? I said no, I said, I was staying and literally knock on wood, what a blessing told me that the NBA was hiring me. I dropped the phone started, Oh my god, I can't believe it. Um, I was elated. I I really I pitched myself to really of course for me to to to say, this is really happening. You know,

I'm really gonna get this opportunity. But again I knew it, you know, not knowing, you know how you know something's gonna happen. I just don't go in because I had done the work, I had worked hard. I was at the top of my class amongst these my guys, um, and just wasn't sure if the NBA was gonna pull the trigger. And I can honestly say that I have to thank David Stern because at the time mccare us again he's passed away. He gave me an opportunity that

changed my life. Wow, changed my life literally. I took a leave of absence from my job. I didn't quit right away because I was able to take a leave of absence. So because I wasn't sure, you know how, you're just not sure. I'm like, at the at that point in time, I think I was with the City of l A for nine years, so they allowed me

to take a leave of absence. I did that and started the NBA season and it was very, very blessed to have a nineteen year career um until of course my knees started killing me, which they of course eventually. That's what that's why I retired. It had nothing to do with anything else other than my body just said, okay, miss lady, it's time. But but you know, that's what happens to all athletes. And I think you know, even you know, when getting down, need to think about athletes

and you think about the passion. One thing that you said is that you showed up. And I want a lot of people to realize you gotta show up and be your best. You didn't say, Dawn, I want to be the best female officient And you just said, official, you want to be the best in the world. The woman right, you're you're you're hitting it right on the head. Had nothing to do with being a woman, now, min we already know, yes, and I can I praise that

at this point, yes I can. But going through at that time, me being a woman had nothing to do with where I was trying to get to. It was about being the best, being at the top and receiving and taking everything of every single opportunity because you know, and I say this kids all the time, you have to put yourself out there because you really don't know

what's on the other side of that door. And you don't follow your passion, follow your dreams, then you know, you gotta keep button heads you don't know, and you can't be afraid. You have to trust that you're gonna do the work, and you have to have that confidence. And I can honestly say that that was never really my issue, my problem for me. And you know, I see that a lot in your story because I found

something that I was really good at. And that's the other thing that you asked when you say, follow your passion and follow your dream because if you do that, you will be successful. Yes, are you gonna have stumbling blocks. Of course we all do, but those things will not stop you from getting where you want to get to. And let's talk about some of these stumbling box Yes, you were the first to come in there, right, I can imagine and and and sometimes I think people call

the shape people say so hate to ration. Sometimes we fear what we don't know, we dislike, but we don't know things that are different and unfamiliar. While I'm sure that some people's opinions and views have changed once they saw your worth, ethic and what you are doing on the court. When we talk about stumbling blocks, what are some of those stumblings that you happened to, uh, come face to face with, whether we're comments from you know, commentators, athletes,

what happened? How about? I received them from all of them, and I can start with even once we got hired, it was the players, you know, because again it's the unknown, it's change, and as we go in today's right today, change is scary for people. And I think one thing that I can honestly say that I knew that all these comments had really nothing to do with Violet. These

people didn't even know me. It was just something different, and I had to understand that I was going into a good old boys club, and the good old boys club as far as on the player side, a good old boys club. As far as the sixty guys that I had to work with night in and night out, it was the unknown and and they you know, it was so funny because after I was sit and talk with them, and I go, fellas, what is the problem? They A, well, you know, we don't know, we don't know.

We have to change because you're around. Can't patch you on the buckhead? Can we touch you and we curse? Can we you know, still make the our comments? You know how men are. And I said this, I said, how about this? I said, you don't have to change the thing I'm not asking. I said. All I'm asking for is for you to be respectful of me as a woman. That's all I ask for. I said, you, if you want to talk about the girl in the fourth row with the big boobs, I'll tell you whether

or not I think she's cute. I don't have a problem with that, as long as just respectful now. And the other thing that I can honestly say, as far as with my guys that once I allowed them to get to know me and I for a lot of us, you know, we we we women, we tend to be

kind of a little arms distance. I wasn't. I said, I want you, guys, I want you to get to know Violet, because once you learn me, it's either you're gonna like me, you're gonna find out the type of person that I am, or you're gonna dislike me just because you want to. Because I know that I'm a good person. I know that I am out here every night just like you guys, busting my butt, working hard.

We're all trying to make it. We're all at this point because you have to realize there's a big difference between officiating for your livelihood and officiating collegiate. That's the difference between college. And we'll talk about it because see, now college I I still have my full time job. This was fun. Now that I'm in the NBA, this is my livelihood. I now have to take care of my family doing this. So for me, it was about business.

I gotta be good at what I do. I gotta stay physically fit, I gotta stay healthy, have to stay in shape. I gotta become one of the best because we're grade at night in and night out. I didn't want to lose my job. Most most people really don't get into that aspect of possibly not living up to are not being graded the way at the highest level that you can lose your job. Wow. Yeah, so that's a whole another issue. But for me, I wasn't worried

about it. I'm like, you know what hard worker, confident athlete knew that I could do it study, just like for any other profession, that I was gonna be at the top of my class, and that I was gonna stay at the top that once. Once I made that decision and going to the NBA, I said, oh, the NBA met a big mistake. The mistake was they gave me an opportunity. I ain't going nowhere, and to go back to having people tell you that you were not going to be successful really put more fire under me.

You know, I experienced my boss is telling me I never forget. At one point, one of my bosses said, you know, I didn't really think you were gonna make it. I said, shame on you to your face. Oh absolutely. You know. We had the fans, you know, go back to the w n b A, go back to college, you know. And you have to realize too, when you're a referee, you it's it's kind of a negative profession period because you have to realize, we're the ones that everybody wants to yell at, We're the ones that are

always wrong. We're the ones that you're either fifty percent wrong fifty percent right. When you're a hundred percent right, because it depends on what side, either there for the visitor or there for the home team. So who they gonna blame you or I would say me, that's what referees have to deal with. So you really kind of get used to blocking out all that stuff, is what I call it. All the you know, you you tend to learn how to you know how your your parents

used to tell you girl nothing. So of course for me learned that at a very early age, which I'm sure we all, you know, we we were all kind of raised the same. You know, your parents said, you know what, girl sticks in stone, they break my bones, but words or not. So as a referee, you can say you could do all the talking you want. Doesn't bother me. So of course for me going out on the on the court didn't matter if I'm in an arena with two hundred or twenty thousand, it's the same noise.

So let me ask you this because somebody will say, and I've had people that are just you know, I find that oftentimes and not saying this is related to your story, but people say, you know, um, God doesn't call the qualified, He qualifies the call. And so with that being said is sometimes you don't have everything figured out, sometimes you don't have the blue print. But it's like, what is that thing for you that that assured you that you on the right path when everybody is saying no?

Because I think sometimes people think that it's an easy ride, like because oh, this is not for me, and it's like, well, who told you it was gonna be easy? Did you think it was gonna be easy? I did not, and didn't even care because here here again, if you, if you have the confidence within yourself, if you're following your passion, if you if you want to be the best, that's in you, that's in your mind, that's in your heart, and that's what you have to rely on. All that

other stuff it's just background noise. And for a lot of us we get caught up in the background noise and forget that. You know what, how about let me? All idea was focus on me. I didn't care the naysayers. I didn't care about the guys who didn't like me. I said, if you don't like me, you that's a you because I'm not doing anything to make you dislike me.

I am just being myself. And that's the other thing that that a lot of us we we we have a problem with because we try to change to make people like us or changed to be in a particular situation or a particular job. I never changed who I am. This is it for me. I haven't changed one bit. And I said either that's when I go back to either you're gonna accept me for who I am or you're you're you're never going to accept me, and we're just gonna be on opposite ends. Who told you that

you could be that way? You know what? I have to say that my mother and my father were probably one of the best. My parents were so positive, and you know what, go out and follow whatever it is you want, whatever you feel in, whatever there, whatever whatever it is you're good at, go try it and allow myself my brother and my sister allowed us to do that and be okay about it and not worry about what the stumbling blocks are gonna be. Don I never, Yeah,

did I know? Was I you know a little bit like, oh my god, if this this doesn't work, what am I gonna do? Never ever put that in my mind. It wasn't part of division, right, So why do we entertain Absolutely I'm like it can't be. This was about how fast can I learn? How good can I get? How soon can I can I get get to the next season because I want to be better than I was last season. Foom, wait a minute, I felt something on that one stop it get get through the season.

And it was crazy because you get through your season and you get to the summertime and you train. I had trainers, I had weight trainers. I had to you know, trying to eat right, trying to stay stay physically fit. You have to do all those things so that when you started the next season, when they you know, it's here's what was interesting being a woman because as soon as they saw me the next season, they go, well, damn you know what you you look good? Oh killing it.

Because most people, and I say this the kids all the time, you have to want to do the work. Hello ah, but here's can I'm jumping in. Let me just say this something that was so on target, on point when you're talking about seasons, like for you, you knew your training season. You knew that it was gonna take a little bit of work or a lot of work that was going to take a level of exertion so that she can prepare you for the next season. But once you got to the next season, you weren't

thinking about the last season because you're not there. And I feel that a lot of times, whether you're interested in basketball or not, under stand the season you are in your life. There you go period. That's I mean, and and and again, of course I can I'm talking. I put it in the terms, of course, in the laymen's terms of officiating, because that's where my passion is. But I think this conversation is for anyone in any profession. It doesn't really matter because the goals are still the same,

your aspirations are still the same. It doesn't matter. And I think the one thing that I learned being around some of the best athletes in the world, there's no way that you look at Lebron James, the late Kobe Bryant. You know, these guys put in the work and you can see it season after season. So of course, and these and we're talking about naturally talented because we all have a God given talent. But if you don't do anything with it, it's not gonna flourish. And you know

what I call that, hard work speaks talent. When talent doesn't want to work hard. Hard work beats talent. When talent doesn't want to work hard, girl, you better preach. See. And that's the that's the one thing that we have to instill in our in children. When I'm speaking to young kids, I go, you know what, all of your talented, but if you don't want to do anything with it, you're not gonna flourish. You're not. And I think for most of us, a lot of people just want it easy.

They want everything easy and and nice. And you know, let me just go through with no bobs, no, no, no, no, no no. The reason why we are who we are, it's because of perseverance, come on, hard work. It's because of you know, the whole foot on the throat. We have lived it. Listen, we have lived it. They say pressure makes diamonds. What you're saying, And here's the thing.

Always have this metaphor. I say, you know what allows a diamond to shine are the multitudes of cuts that have been placed within it, right and all in there? What you from this saying to this sing? But what did you say? You said you knew who you are, who you who you're meant to be. And that's just the same as a diamond. When that diamond steps into the light, as you step forth in your truth, baby,

it's nothing but salute and respect. There you go. But here see, with that, we have to remember that if you haven't trained, if you haven't studied, and you know that done the offseason work, so that when you get when of course, when you get in that lovelight and all the lights come on, you're gonna be okay if you if you haven't done that work, those are the ones that don't make it because they think, oh my god, I'm just talented. I'll get through. It doesn't work that way,

and it it is night in and night out. You have to put in the work. And even like to this day, where I've already retired, I'm doing you know. Of course, when it comes to officiating, I have my own referee school. I still I'm a collegiate um supervisor where I have what forty five Division one schools um. You know, I have three conferences that I'm responsible for. You know. Of course, for me, I retired, but I'm still working, which is great. I can work from home now,

said my own travel schedule. Everything is is wonderful. But having all these opportunities. And I say this to to my referees. I'm in charge of about a hundred, almost two hundred referees. I tell them, like, the one thing you guys have to understand, you will never outwork me. And I'm the boss. You will ever outwork me. Because this is what I've been doing my entire life. It's instilled. I know what it takes to be successful. So you can't you sat up in front of the room, and

you try to tell people how to be successful. What what are the best the best leaders or what examples? The best leaders are examples. And if you can stand up in front of a room and be that example and show them that you can be successful, people will follow. So what's so hard work, dedication? What's the secret juice to being successful? You have to be given an opportunity, but you actually have to kind of put yourself out there to receive it. You know a lot of times

we well, you know what, I'll wait till tomorrow. Tomorrow becomes six months, six months becomes a year, a year becomes five years, five years becomes ten. You end up being that hamster in the little thing going around in circles, not getting anywhere that it just it's just a freaking nature.

And they say fortune favors the bold. There you go, you hit it on the head, there you go, and it takes you know, I even said to myself, and I look at this process of coming out with this podcast and having my weekend segment, were times when I've sat down and I cry because I don't know what I'm doing, but I know that I have to. And it's like that's the fuel that you just gotta keep tapping into. The people are like, we'll dawn, how do you get to happier? How do you know when it

feels good? Just keep running towards that right? Oh no, because trust me, you keep doing what you're doing. You have to realize too, by you're doing this, you're reaching young men and women who need to hear this, who need to see you. And I were young, you know what I mean. They need to see that. You know what, if God did it, if Violent is doing what she's doing, I may have a shot, you know, because of course

that's what we viewed. You know, you we all use people that can fuel how successful we become and all of those things. But again, you still kind of have to put yourself out there to be an example for all of the young men and women becoming behind us, you know, and I look at that too, I go, you know what, at least I know that I can take the time to help somebody every day. Okay, So tell us about you have actual you have a organization

you were talking about, your official school. Tell us about it. What's it called? Well, it's it's actually called Basic Referee School. Um, I didn't put it. I didn't name it after my name. I didn't, you know, that just wasn't wasn't me. But um, it's a referee school that I hold in the summertimes of course, because of training. Referees have to train in the summer. And I trained young men and men who

are looking to better themselves on the collegiate level. Um. Because again, once I retire from the NBA, going back to the collegiate level with that's pretty much where my my feet are right now. Um, And I can help train and develop and of course for me, I'm always looking for new up and coming young referees that possibly could work for me. So it's kind of twofold. You know. I killed quite a few birds with one stone. I can train, develop. I love to teach. I'm mentoring um.

So it's the way for me to kind of give back. But it returned still training and develop officials that could possibly referee on my staff. Wow. And here's the thing that I found so amazing too. I was reading, um, you were actually uh d was there for a bit of time, and then she departed after five years and then you you held, you reigned in your court for

thirteen years before the next woman came in. Well, actually she only made it for you for excuse me, what not she made it for and don I can tell you that. Uh. Let's see, I retired in twenty twenty fourteen. They hired Lauren hole Camp, one other woman. So I was very very happy that at least because I wasn't one and done, because for a lot of years I didn't think that they were going to hire another woman.

And I thought, you know what, gosh, I want to stay long enough for them to hire another woman, because that again solidified all the work that I had put in because again I made it so comfortable. I made it easy, you know, for her to to be given an opportunity. So for me, that was another acculate in my you know, a feather in my cap um, which was which I'm very very proud of because even now the NBA they have three women, oh yes, that are

on staff. So here again, if I had not been as successful, done as well that I had done in my nineteen years, those women would not be receiving an opportunity. And I can tell you that when I got hired on, there were no there was uh Shaw Miller was the only women commentator. And now you look at male and and she was doing basketball. But see now we literally have a woman in every single sport and you wow, yes, so you know there there's a lot of things that I can sit back and look at it. Go you

know what, I had a little hand in that. Now that there's there's a female official in footballs it's soccer, you know these yes, and I go, you know what, thank you very much, you know, and those things will sit back and no one has to say a word. But I know because if I hadn't have done as well as I've done, what's as successful as I was, those women would not be receiving their opportunities to this day.

And I it what's crazy is that I received, you know, emails or phone calls from different people to say, you know what, thank you because you paved the way for other women and and officiating and male professional sports to have an opportunity. And that's all we're asking for, you know, we just want to want to just do will work as hard, will do your work, will do all those things that we need to do. Just give us an opportunity. And I am thankful that I was as successful as

I was to give other women that opportunity. So with your school, are you looking to possibly on the search for the next possibly female NBA referee? Is that an option when people are in your school to guide them in that direction? You know what? There are options, yes, because here again you know what different different people have

different aspirations. And of course if I come across any woman, and I have and in a lot of cases where women will come to my school and say, hey, you know a violence, what do I have to do to to to try to to go on the professional route? I help them with that, no different than I would help you on the collegiate side. It really really doesn't matter, you know, most women or or and I won't just say women because it can be then our women at this point, I'm not you know, I'm kind of a sexist,

but you know I don't have any gender biases. I will help whoever needs help when it comes to officiating, So it really doesn't matter, um what level. When you come to my school, you can tell me where your aspirations are and I can help you get you know, kind of guide you in the right direction. That's pretty much my job. Wow. Okay, So for anyone's out there that's possibly interested in your school, can you give up

the information? Absolutely, it's it's actually um Basic Referee school dot com and you can get all the information you need Basic Referee, Basic Referee School dot com and it'll guide you in the right direction. Wow. Okay, So we're for slowly wrapping up for I was wondering, what is something that you would say to younger violent looking back? What would you say to younger Violet. What would you say to young v out there on the cor or

in the backyard, be in the backyard. I would say, continue to work, continue to dream, follow your path ashion. That's the number one key. The second thing is that I and I have lived by this. If you dream it, you have to have you have to dream it. You can be it. If you dream it, you can be it. And I think for me that was something that I held onto from the time that I started in my career up until this day, and I can honestly say

there's not like some magic potion that that. You know, it's called hard work, it's called perseverance, it's called putting yourself out there, it's called not being afraid. You know, all these things play into this being successful. But you gotta want to work, and a lot of us don't like to do. That's the hard part. You have to want to do the work and be as as good as you can be, because you know, it's so competitive.

You know, in the real world it's extremely competitive, and of course it's even more competitive when you're talking about adding money to the pot. When you start adding more dollars to it, it becomes more competitive, more cutthroat, more scary, more everything. So, of course, but if you have done your work, you gotta always be at the top. You're not gonna worry about who's coming behind you. You know, most people all you know, you you're like, oh my god,

somebody's gonna knock me off my throne. Come on, I can knock you off your throne because I'm sitting on my throne and I'm I'm good exactly. And I tell people, I go, I said, tone young officials, you know in my class, I go. One thing, you guys have to understand, you can never ever ever be violent. Palmer me thanks one Dawn. That's said. So you can try to be like me and it which is fine, But there is only me. There's only one me, and that's the reyalty

and that's the realty right there. But you have to find yours. And I think for young you know, men and women, that's what they're you know, that's what they're do, what they have to strive for. They have to find

their inner self. I love that, and you know, I hope you know, whoever is you know listening to this right now, could even look at this season where we're in right now, with everything that's going on with this pandemic, that's looking at your story of being the first female to do it, to run the gang, to be the queen of your own court, to find time to find you. That's the answer, and that's the thing that you said from the very beginning of this interview, you said it

was about what I loved staying true to me. They true to me that you know what. And I try to say this to young young student athletes, young you know what I'm when I'm always talking to kids. That is the one thing that I tried to say to them. I go, you have no idea and and in today's you know. And it's different for kids now versus when I was young, because now there's opportunities for everything, but you have to get out and find it. You can't wait for someone to give you something. You have to

go out and find it. Always tell people, I'm like, if you really want it, there's nothing that you can't have. And I feel like sometimes we get de frustrated, we get discouraged. It's because you're telling yourself that you wanted but you don't really want it, because you're not pulling in the work. You go, doctor door, Yeah, you're right, you are right, and you gotta put your hand on that, not turn and over through. And I literally there's something

else that I can honestly say. I went, you know what, how about the n B A thank you for cracking the door, But you know what, I knocked that damn door down. See there's the difference see here's here's my thing and I and I can honestly attest to this. Yeah, they opened it a little bit, they cracked it, but I put my foot and knocked it down. Damn Yeah, here me is done? Copy? What? What? What? What? There?

You go? What I'm talking about? Yes? You got to thank you so much because I'm sure there there are so many people that we're just afraid to be who they are. And when you talk about success, it's just the money? Is it? What is it? And I'm like, if you can't see you, what does that matter? You know what? All of that will come if you see you come And I like that. I I may have to steal that one. I love it. So let me ask you this. Where can people follow you and contact

you if they want to see you? How can you be reached? Well, you know you of course Instagram, Uh, Facebook, I'm on all of it, you know. And it's so funny. My my my wife actually gave me my Instagram name, so I'm I'm NBA Underscore Lashes, which I think it's kind of cute. So you know, it's kind of you know, being a woman. And I can honestly tell you it came from because you know, I'm not a big makeup girl. Never happened big tom boy, you know me. But when

I got married, my wife made me get lashes. So that's where the NBA lashes came from. Because you know, of course it's you know, still still kind of me, but you know, not too much over the other side, just a little something. And so I thought that was really really a kind of a cute name that I kind of fell in love with. So of course for me, you can follow. Um. I really try to kind of give some inspirational stuff. I do talk about my I

put stuff about my camps. I put stuff about officiating, I put stuff about you know, anything can that I feel that it's motivating that could help anyone who follows me. That's what I do. Okay, And you know you've given you've given so much inspiration, but you're the very first person, but not like you're not used to being the first where I'm implementing this. But as you know, this is called vitamin D and it's all about having a dose of inspiration. And you know, we get vitamin D from

the sun and we're shedding light into people. And you know, my name happens to be done, so you know, just the reflection love it, you know what, because I think when we were uh uh the one rest and we went to I can't remember when we go through the kitchen and that, but I remember you you mentioning to me that this was something that you were kind of working on. Just so you know, I do remember that you were trying to get some things off the ground.

And now sitting here talking with you, I can honestly say, you go, girl, oh my good miss Vitamin D. I love it, you know what, And that's for you. That's what you have to do. I think, you know, most most people just don't want to step out on faith. And I commend you, don I commend see here again, I commend you on your perseverance to get me on the show. But that's what you gotta do, and most people don't want to do it. You go, you know, I once stump me block, I don't care another one.

I don't care another one. I don't care. I'm gonna get it done. And those are the stories. And I want to thank you because those are the stories that our young men and women need to hear. That's awesome. That's just touched part because that has to be at least three or four years ago at least absolutely, no, yes, it was clear leak, definitely, no doubt that at least three at least three. And Lizzy yeah, yeah, well, thank you,

thank you for speaking life and to me. Well, you know what, we we do it to each other, that's right, Yes, And I'm very very happy. Thank you for just having me on, you know, just Karen, just wanting to share some warm, wonderful, inspirational thoughts. I I appreciate it, so I just want you. I was very very happy to

do it, and thank you for having me on. Well okay, wow, listening back to this convo and from the other side, I can't help but feel that everything, like everything comes down to the work you're willing to put into it. I know I said it during our conversation, but here this hard work beats talent when talent doesn't want to

work hard. Looking back at violent and so many other people that I've met and have achieved so much success in their lives, but I'm a denominator is always that they were willing to put in the work and the extra work and the extra extra work, and that work is fueled by passion. So, like Rihanna said, work work, work,

work work. So now, if you're interested in following Violet or finding out more about the art of officiating, you can find her on Twitter at n b A First Lady and on Instagram at n b A Underscore Lashes. As always, you can catch us on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts each and every Monday with more inspiring conversations and insight. And always if you're looking for more vitamin D in your life, you can always follow me on all social media at

Dawn day Speaks. That's Dawn d a i Speaks on all social media. And until next time, always remember you are your greatest stass at