Living With Endometriosis (w/ Sarah Michal Hamid)

And I do this with inspirational insights and conversations with celebrities and everyday people like you and me, Because if you want to be better and you want to do better, then you're going to have to be able to see better. So join me on this journey of living our best lives and understanding and realizing how you are your greatest ass act. Let me tell you something, going after your dreams isn't easy. They say dreams don't work unless you

do so what you're doing? Mm hmm. Have you ever heard the quote that, um, it's not about the size of the dog in the fight, it's about the as of the fight and the dog. Well, I gotta ask you something. How big is your fighting your dog? M hm? You know, we have these dreams and aspirations and a lot of the things that we want, uh, But sometimes

I wonder how bad do we really want it? Because oftentimes we come into a situation we make these things called excuses as to why we couldn't do something while we can't show up, why aren't we there on time? Not wanting to be uncomfortable? But then I gotta ask you,

how big is your fighting your dog? Now? Usually we look at the size of the dog of as far as people have access, uh, people who have notoriety, people who have a social media following, people that come with a wholesome family, some people that may not have any mental disorders or physical disabilities, but they ain't got nothing to do with the fighting the dog. Let me just tell you, even with myself, you can't allow people to tell you know, when I first applied to Howard, I

didn't get accepted. Now easily that could affect in my ego, right and me showing up in my ego the biggest dog, like, oh my god, I didn't get in. And I had to say, wait a minute, Dawn, this ain't about whether or not you're smart enough. Because you're an honor roll you're you're honor student, you're active on campus, you are president of student council. This had to come with the moment of how bad are you willing to fight? And see,

that's when you got a mother lying in Janice Hill. Hey, she gonna remind you that there is nothing that you cannot do. She's gonna fuel she has she still does fuel the fight in my dog. So down, what did you do? Oh well, let me tell you what I did. I wrote Howard. Now I did say president. I was at the secretary student council in high school. That's neither here nor there. I wrote Howard and told them my qualifications because perhaps it's just the fact that I didn't

test well, huh. But my fight persuaded me, gave me the ammunition to rebuke their verdict. And guess what, the verdict was changed. Not only did I graduate from Howard, I graduated with honors and I hosted my graduation. So don't sit here and tell me what you cannot do, because it's not about the size of the dog in the fight. It's about the size of the fight and the dog. Let's go right with me and get excited about Hello. Let me tell you I got somebody's special

in the studio with me. Now, I was asking Jeremiah, I should know this is it Michael or McCall, you're super super close. It's me Hall. It's like a you know, cuse yes, yes. So it's complicated. But my mom's Jewish, she's Ashkenazi, so she's like Eastern European basically, but like they have very unique like culture from like Russians and Ukrainians and stuff. And then my dad was born in Pakistan.

But we're from two different ethnic groups, both of which are like indigenous groups basically, So I'm Punjabi and Kashmidi, and then I'm from like two patrilineal tribes. So it's very confusing. So, like we understand ancestry to descend from the father, so patrilineal means it comes from your father's side. But then on my mom's side, everything is matrilineal, so

it's with the mother. So it's very interesting. So you say, start, what do you mean by that, Like like you know those stories like in the Bible, like Sarah, you know how she was like the mother of nations, so it's like the matriarch of the family. Also, you're the way you grew up. Christianity is not something that that's so interesting. It's so interesting that you say that because I had first I had never been in a church until I was like eighteen years old, like an actual religious church.

I had been to like old churches or like food donations stuff like that, but I had never been to a church service. And I think that once I went, everyone was doing all these different things that it was foreign to me. So it felt like the first time I was learning so much about Christianity. I didn't know that when people put their hands up it's like to God. I did not know that. How was I supposed to know? Like? How would I know? When I was in Kenya, I

was talking to the Homeida. I should know his name right out of my phone, is right, it don't matter. I was asking him. I was like, you know, what's what's your background like with faith or religion? He was

talking about, you know, something of God and Jesus. I was like, how do you How does your people know about Jesus, like just geographically speaking, and how the messages like oh, you mean my grandfather's religion, let's talk about that um And basically grandfather, grandmother, but just before there was a thing of Christianity, So you had never heard

of God or Jesus. Well, I mean, obviously I knew what God and Jesus was, but like, okay, so like Jesus is the son of God, but then Jesus died for everyone's sins and then Jesus is God but also the son and marries a virgin, like and I'm a birth worker, so I'm like, that's how you make a baby. Like something was up in her like come on? How else?

Was like like what? What? Really? Do we really like, come on with all the sperm that was in the world and really like, let's think about that rack sleep because we want to Wow, you're ready for a real conversation. And here, oh yeah, you know. I think it's important because I was just talking to a home girl of mine and she was telling me her daughter is twelve years old and thinks that a baby comes from a swan.

She probably mean a steward, she said swan, And I said really, And I didn't mean to judge, but I feel like I don't know about in your background, but I want to say African American communities. I don't know if we talk about sex enough and talking about where children come from and your genitalia in general, of what

it even looks like. It's don't say anything. And you know, I've had an individual, Kiana, she was on the show and she was just talking talking about how she had been involved in um sex trafficking, how she had been raped, she had been molested, and that whole hush hush, And it's like, we need to be more open with this dialogue, in this conversation and not acting like some fairy dust

just came out of nowhere. And I think it's hard to because people I want to do what's best for their kids, and they think that keeping information on them is protecting them in some way. But ultimately what that does is it drives people to the Internet, which is like you so you don't want your kid to know about how they became a person, which one I think is a problem because I think it's normal to talk about how we enter the world. That's something that is

common to every human. You know, we were made like, that's not an uncommon experience. But to then have that and then kids going to the Internet, it's just they're primed for exploitation and for misinformation about their own bodies. You know, it's really weird. It's really weird. I love how you described yourself. You said, I'm a birthworker. Yes, does that mean? Okay, so a birthworker is someone that works in birth or with birth. I think of it

so like yourself. You know, you're creative. You have this calling in some way that keeps you going despite how difficult it is. You know how frustrating it can be to navigate the field or you know, partnerships or whatever, just the same way that I get tired of standing up, and you know, I am often up for long hours at late hours, almost always covered in baby vomit of

some sorts. But we have this calling, you know. For me, I feel like it definitely was something that came from my ancestors, and for that I was just like, whoa, what's happening? Like it was the first time I had felt that kind of reconnection to ancestry, which was gray. But once I realized that, I was like, Okay, basically, this means for me that I'm going to have my hands and arms wrapped around like families and mothers and birthing people for probably like the rest of my life,

you know. Yeah, And and it just came to you one day to be like I'm going to be dealing with yeah, So it didn't just come to me one day. So throughout my life, I've always appreciated kids because they don't know boundaries really that well. So everything that they're learning is typically for the first time or the first few times. And so with a baby, you see that rapidly, Like babies developed so quickly, you know, they learned how to move, walk, talk, like within six months, Like what

do we do in six months? Like we're in our adult lives, and what do we do in six months? Like I could not tell you what I did this last six months, but you can see the observations in a new human And so I've always loved kids. And then I was working at this government commission in Hawaii about women, and we were working on this feminists like recovery plan for COVID because all of a COVID like funding was like police, you know, sending it out to

like places that did not need money. You know, the police don't need more money or anything, but that's that, that's that. But um, we were basically advocating for money to be put into like community Healthcare Midwiffree Services, and that's where I met my mentor, um Tanya Smith Johnson. She's the current president of the National College of Midwiffrey. She's the first black president of the National College of Midwiffrey.

So she's always she's always rooting me on, and I always like to give her shout outs because if I didn't meet her, I think it would have been really really hard for me to figure out like what to do, because it's not easy, you know, like what happens when you make wake up one day and you're like, I want to be a midway, Like what do you do? Where do you go? You look towards like schools and stuff, and the schools that we have here are not the best.

Necessarily we have like two three midwid free programs just in California, two and three. It's like like this is a whole new world in my brain, like, of course this is something or a position or a field of career that is definitely a needed valued But I never thought to think like what this person does, like how

important they are in the process. And so just hearing you're talking about like how you kind of dived in there was interesting and then as I was looking at you further, it's interesting that you did choose this career path and you yourself have challenges with your how do we um with endometriosis? And that was another big thing was my experience like basically being forced to navigate the O. B G. I. N's office since I was is thirteen years old? What's going on a third day? For some

of them may don't know what's endometriosis? So, yeah, So endometriosis is a disease that basically happens when the uterine lining doesn't fully well. It sheds, but it makes adhesions on other parts of the pelvic area. But it can also be found like in your brain. So it's kind of like the worst thing ever. Yeah, but so it's

like attaching skin. Yeah, So it makes adhesions, It layers these cells that over time caused these kind of like exactly like fibrous almost at times, but ultimately like binding materials. So I had to have a surgery called excuse me, bilateral laparoscopic Ablatian surgery for endometriosis. And they basically just put a camera in your belly button and then in other parts of your stomach. They fill it with gas and they like burn and kind of cauterize out the

you know, diseased parts. And I had like adhesions basically like fusing part of the back of my uterus to my bladder. It's just like, how did you find out about this? Okay, so at Thursday. So this surgery happened when I was eighteen, But fast forward. I've always struggled with my menstrual cycle. It was something that the first time I got it, I was so shocked because I genuinely was surprised that I was just losing that much blood.

I was I had just turned twelve, I remember, and I remember like I was walking home from school and I was like, uh uh, something's not right. Like I could just feel and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm bleeding. I was like, this is my period. But it was a lot. And that first year that I had my menstrual cycle, it was just like I would bleed and bleed and bleed, like it was like it was NonStop, and it was very be painful, Like I was like so much pain that I like I wouldn't

want to do the things I wanted to do. When I was their teens, like, you know, that's typically not something necessarily that thirteen year old struggle with. So I felt isolated too because I was like growing up in also like a South Asian household. Like you know, the

way menstruation is treated is very like interesting. Um, I don't say bad or wrong, but you know, there's this assumption that like you really shouldn't do much when you're menstruating, right, like you should really rest, which I actually like find value in. But that also kind of comes from the idea that you could potentially be like contagious and leave her alone and buy her even to today. Yeah, I think I've heard I don't know what culture is in

my brain. I could be messed up. Uh, Like I imagine I've seen something read something where there in the tent and nobody can go in there, and I don't know if there's Washington, but I just imagine very disgusting and it's it's really weird because I don't think that it has to be negative, but I definitely think that the way that like a lot of our communities engage

with it is stigmatizing. You know, it's just sad because like life comes from this passage exactly and it's the it's it's a uniting experience, you know, like we we'll all have it, you know, we can we can know that. I mean some people don't, but there's a lot of people you can rely on. Despite this, you know, I still was like, Okay, I'm so young. I was one of the first of my friends to have my period.

Like it was just very strange. And I didn't end up going to see my pediatrician until I was like thirteen, about like a year after I had initially gone in my menstrual cycle. And he's like this very sweet, like Filipino doctor. He's been my family doctor forever. You know. My dad's with me in the room, like it's like, you know, I'm thirteen, man, like, what are you gonna do with me? And he's like, oh, yeah, take um aspirin. Yeah. So you are you closer to your dad and your mom? No,

I'm closer to both of them equally. I love them both. There, you know, there's such they're such good parents. No, I do love them. I think it's interesting because my parents are older, so seeing them progress has always happened in a different way than I saw my friend's parents. You know, how my mom was forty. Okay. She was like, I'm not. I'm not doing the whole young thing with these kids. You you were her first, she had more. Okay, so it's hope. Okay, I'm not I'm not forty yet, but

I'm okay. So this is this is another thing we can talk about. Oh my god, the myths around geriatric pregnancy. Okay, wait because hold on wait okay, so okay, okay, go ahead. Wait, let's because then we got to go into okay, so I went to He eventually was like okay, yeah, there're he We told him. You know, I've been taking ibprof and I've been taking ivent, taking aspirin. It's not helping me. And it's like one they weren't helping me. Like they're

called nd sades non steroid anti inflammatory drugs. They basically just try and reduce the body's response to inflammation, right, But if you're just treating the body for inflammation over and over again, not adjusting the root cause it. Yeah, and it's also really bad for your stomach. There's all sorts of issues with like continuous like over the counter

pain medication, you know, consumption stuff. But I get sent to this O b G I N. And you know coincidence, it's my mom's O B G I N. You know, because we're all I'm I'm thirteen, we're all in a family, you know, healthcare plan. My dad's with me, and you know, she says to me, like, you know, most teen girls just have irregular periods, and all that we do is

just recommend that you go on birth control. So basically, from age thirteen, I started taking hormonal birth control and it like regulates your cycle basically, so it is essentially your ovaries and your uterus that usually communicate with your brain are being kind of controlled by like a synthetic hormone um. And it's not like I'm not I'm not

a birth control hater, you know what I mean. I'm just this is my experience, and it isn't something we should probably readily over prescribe teenage girls, especially teenage girls who are in the clinical environment for reproductive health issues already, you know what I'm saying, Like it was looking back on it now as someone that is one day going to be a provider, like I think about that situation critically, so that basically the harm is that it's thrown off

the body, Like, what are some of the negative side effects of like the hormonal control. Well, one, it didn't actually address my symptoms, so I was still experiencing painful menstrual cycles, and they didn't really provide me any relief other than they gave me like an increase like a milligram, you know, like advill or something like that, which is like cool, I could just take two of these from CBS,

like really like what's going on here? But it did kind of tied me over until I started experiencing my endometrio systptoms really badly, which is when I started college, and I was like passing out, Like I was in so much pain. I would black out, like or sitting in class and fallout. Yeah, and so that's actually what happened. So once this situation happened, my roommate was there, you know, ended up going to the emergency room and m m m yeah. And unfortunately, you know, there's so much that

needs to change. There's so much that needs to change. Talk about So when you're admitted to like an e ER, right, they are immediately trying to perform as many tests as they can to figure out, Okay, what is this story we have the symptoms, right, the patients here, you know, reporting these symptoms, but we don't know the cause. So they're going to use tests and things. They're going to run exams, and they're going to use their education and

their expertise to make a conclusion. But the conclusions that doctors often make are not disentangled from systems of power.

So the decisions doctors make, you know, about certain things, it's impacted by racism, it's impacted by sexism because we live in a racist and sexist country, you know, So how is it that and we have all this research proving you know, that there is different outcomes health outcomes from people of color during COVID even why is it that people of color were dying of COVID more, you know, the white people when we're all in the same country, and a lot was just even people that experience I

don't know what the term is, but difficult pregnancies and women of color dying more exactly. So it shows It showed me that moment that wow, things really need to change. So you feel like a minority when you step through, nobody is thinking like you might be. I mean, they maybe have questions. They have questions because I don't, you know, I can check in Asian box and then they look at me and they're like, and I'm like, I know, but it's not my choice. There's no Southwest Asian category

that I can choose. So take what you take, you know what saying? Um, When I go into the e R, the questions they will immediately ask are, especially with reproductive healthcare, are about your sexual activity. So I was seventeen, I was in college. I was a person having sex right and because of that, they immediately thought, well, you probably have honorrhea or chlamydia. You have an STI and that's

why you're in pain. Because I was experiencing extreme pelvic cramping, like extreme pelvic pain, and you know, I'm thinking to myself, you're not really a hell like that side side. Like I mean, I seventeen years old. I was not as conscious and aware of like taking care of your sexual health as I am now. But it wasn't like that. Like I was getting tested. There was no way I had an STI. And you know, they took a sample,

but they said, this is really really bad. If an STI develops into something called pelvic inflammatory disease and it can cause infertility. It's so dangerous, traumatic, traumatized. So they're telling me all these things and they're like, the thing that's going to help you is an antibiotic shot in your butt. So I get this antibiotic shot on my butt and I pick up my antibiotics and they send me home with the referral to an O B G I N and UM. I end up having to go

in early because I'm experiencing so much pain. And basically I go to this O B G I N and I can just tell she's like overworked. You know, you can see when people are just like to sneeze, thank you, there you go. So you can just tell when you're in a medical environment and someone like doesn't see you as a person, you know what I mean, Like they're just looking at you like, Okay, I need to get this information, give it to me now, please, you know.

And it doesn't feel great, especially when you're in a stressful situation. It makes you feel kind of like uncared for, which is not what health care is supposed to be. Health care care, you know, we're supposed to want to help promote happiness, health and healing. And yeah, that's that's why I that's why I mean, I want to I want to see people thriving and happy and healthy. So she mentions to me that my um my tep my you know, test for granerie and clamydia came back negative.

And I'm like, how are you just going to brush that off? Like you told me that the cause of my pain was this illness and infection that I don't have, and now I've taken antibiotics for it, potentially causing harm to my body. Because when you take too many antibiotics for things that aren't treating, it throws off your balance and your gut. But also it can cause your body

to resist the antibiotics. It's called antibiotic resistance, and it's growing more and more common because antibiotics are overprescribed, you know, like any time you have an infection, or in my case, I didn't have an infection, and I was still prescribed them and given them, you know. So she tells me that her pain management strategy for me is going to be medication, and so, m hmm, how are we figuring

out the story here? We're just throwing stuff on top because we got to figure out why are you in pain? Let's talk about the why is the pain existing? Right? And mind you, at this time, I'm seventeen and at this point I've had at least maybe six or seven pop smears. I'm not supposed to have one of those twenty one. You know, you don't want to open the cervix up to too much contamination, because that's how you get infections is by constantly examining an internal body part.

You know, I'd had, you know, all the panels done, all the things, and so she says, you know, my pain management strategy for you as medication, So she sends me this prescription. I go to pick it up, and I was unable to because she prescribed me, uh oxyconton yeah, which is you know, like a like a pain killer, like a super yeah, a class three narcotic. And I wasn't eighteen at the time, so I couldn't even pick up that quantity because it would have been a federal crime.

And that just goes where is that the health care part? I mean, I don't know, it's it's deeply concerning, but when you look at the history of this field in the United States, it makes sense. So for me, I'm always trying to think about how we and divert you know how we can really shift our capacity and energy away from this, you know, right right? And I think you should in light having conversations like this. Absolutely, she says, Okay,

you're negative. Then you're like, okay, so what's up. So I had another kind of episode where I ended up like basically blacking out in pain and an advising meeting, which is not cute your first semester of college, you know what I'm saying. Luckily, this is like the story of like my experiences is like caring people supporting me. You know. My advisor let me know that her wife actually had endometriosis, this thing called endometriosis, and they couldn't

figure out what it was for years. She went to all these different doctors and um, she kind of gave me her phone number and information and said, you know, if you want to call her, if you want to talk, Like here you go. I immediately left that meeting. I called and scheduled an appointment, and I had an appoint within like a week and a half. And when I got to that appointment, like I just knew that, like I felt something was going to change. The nurse that

did my vitals was like really respectful of me. And when I ended up going into the exam room my doctor, she did like a full pelvic exam, so you take like a it's called a transaginal pelviic exam, goes through your vagina. They take this wand you've probably seen it and it's like, okay, we're just gonna poke around and yeah, and um I noticed she was like oh wow, and I was like what. And she's like, you have a lot of fluid, like just free floating fluid. So what

are you feeling right now? You're nervous? Are you scared? I just didn't know what it meant at first, so I was like, okay, there's fluid, what like what's wrong? Like what could it be? And then she gets to my ovaries and she's like okay. So she's like all right, like we're okay, we're done. And I'm also in pain at this point because basically I was in constant pelvic pain.

Like so you're you are you administring? No, you're not, You're not in your cycle, You're just you're just Oh so when you have endometriosis, you're just in pain all the time, not just beak of a cramps. Yeah, oh, you kind of don't get relief because when your menstrual cycle is bad, it causes your pelvic floor, which is this muscle group we have that holds up our body.

It gets tight and spastic. So I experienced muscle spasms and it's like you can you can feel it, like you can like you're like like you can literally hear yeah, because no one wants to feel like their body, you know.

So I go to her office and I had never sat down in like a doctor's office where they're at a table and you're like, this is what they do in the movies, I felt like and she said the word endometriosis, and that second I heard it, I was just like like it was like everything else just became silent, Like I was just like, whoa, this is like happening. I'm being validated. You know, my pain is acknowledged, my reality, my experience is being honored. But what the heck? This

is like my life now? And did you know what it meant at that time? I did because I had yes. But also I had been like acts like asking and advocating to get tested for endometriosis since I first started seeing one doctor. I had been through like almost a dozen O. B. G Yan's. Like literally one of them told me like, oh, you should get pregnant. Wait what because then you want have a menstrual cycle? What does that even mean? Like what why are you? Was that

a male doctor? It was a male doctor. It was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. I mean one of them recommended a full hysterectomy. Are you seen? So forget any Okay, go ahead. It was It was really weird too, because I've never hated my like uterus, like I've been in so much pain from it, but I don't hate it. I just I am always trying to understand it better. But to have someone wants to remove it from me, you know, it was a very weird experience. And it was so

nonchalant for him. I remember, like, and you're sitting in the stirrups, so you know it's you're very so this doctor actually that finally diagnosed me correctly. She said, the reason why I think you have endometrios this is you said you were hospitalized. I found a bunch of free um floating fluid in your pelvic cavity. Right, Usually that's the result of is of ovarian cysts. Right, So it's likely that the pain that sent me to the hospital

was the pain from ovarian cysts bursting. Yeah, And so I was experiencing that rupturing pain that is like very very bad. It just for a second, or is it like No, it's like it's not a pop. It's like like or like a it feels like you're muscles, like your pelvic floor and your uterus are being slowly pulled through like something very hard to pull it through, like

there's resistance. You can feel it. It's very uncomfortable. And luckily I have not experienced ovary insists since then, right, because I had a doctor that I saw that I had these symptoms. She saw the reason why she ended the exam was because she saw very low egg follical

account and so that's common in women. Are people with endometriosis, is infertility or reduced um you know, ovarian follicles, right or eggs And so that to hear that, you know, I've always known that I'm going to be a mother and wanted to have children, and that's something that's very sacred to me, and I never anticipated to hear anything along the lines of you can't do that, or that

might not be possible for you at that age. I mean it was really there was no one else that I knew that had experienced because we don't talk about these things. We don't talk about I saw you post something on Instagram. Is this when they said you had the ovaries of a thirty forty? What was it? Yeah? Like I had the ovarian follical count of like someone that was like it was like thirty two or thirty four.

I was seventeen when they did. Yeah. And so basically what that was a result of was years of untreated inflammation, you know, and chronic pain. I mean pain, It sucks, but it tells us something because your body shouldn't just be heard, Yeah, just hurt, just like we shouldn't just hurt people. Yeah. So I met her. She put me on a bunch of different treatments. Some of them didn't work. Most of them didn't work. Um. I basically tried every kind of birth control that like exists, like the patch,

the ring, the pill, all the things didn't work. Then I had surgery and I had an IUD inserted, and that was to help manage the endometriosis. And I started pelvic floor physical therapy and so that is. I'm so glad you asked. So it's because it's really out asked a question. Okay, So this is the thing. Pelvic or physical therapy is the fairy godmother that you never know you needed. So our public floor, especially as people that have uterus is and reproductive organs that can carry babies

and stuff, takes a beating. We stand not straight. We slouch, you know what I'm saying. We sloug right, We fold our transverse abdominal muscles. We don't really engage our core, so we kind of just like flop around a lot of the time. And our PUBLC floor can create these kind of tight areas or areas of tightness. Right. The vagina is really cool because it like can move so much, but the muscle it can't do the most. You know, it's a muscle. You have to train it. So what

public exactly? So it's not just keegels, but it's basically doing work with a physical therapist who helps to manipulate a maneuver different tools inside of your vagina. Mm hmm. Oh wow, this is so weird, Like does it turn you on? This is not it was not like it's feeling good. It's like you're learning a part of your body. You're learning how to really understand how it moves, and you're like gripping or clenches. Yeah. Yeah, this is before

after you had surgery. So I started it before, but it was prescribed to me, like I think one session a week about like three weeks after I had surgery, and I did it for like six seven months straight and it changed my life. Okay, So what was the surgery call that you had bilateral laparoscopic Oblazian surgery. Okay, obliging surgery. Okay, Um, you how long was the healing process was it? Yeah? You said something about your behaveal

and you know, like, what did it feel like? So I've never had surgery before war I was like, and I'm also someone that is affected by medication very heavily, so I know it long. Yeah, I know, because that's why it's like I think, once I decided to like really get to a better understanding what my issues were, and that meant, you know, not taking all these narcotics that were being given to me, not taking all these prescription pain medications and birth control. So the healing time

for me took about a month. They say it'll take two weeks, three weeks. It took me a month. They put this camera in your belly button. They cut like a hole. So yeah, it's kind of like okay, by belly button, you know what I mean. I do have a belly, but it's like different, like you can like I can see the scar, which is so interesting because most of the time people don't have like secrets in their belly buttons, you know, but it's kind of cool.

So and then they put two incisions like kind of closer to where your ovary would lay, and they use these tools to cauterize and you know, take out the end of metrial adhesions, and they put you under general in asthesia, you know. And it's usually like a relatively short surgery one to two hours. I think mine lasted about two. And I just remember waking up and feeling like so disoriented. Um, I was super confused, and I was like is it okay? Like are we okay? Like

are we good? I saw my doctor and she was like, yes, it's okay, We're gonna be okay, Like this was it was a successful surgery, just like we can show you pictures later. I was like, I'm gonna look at pictures of my uterus what like wild but it was. I woke up and was in pain, but I felt like crying tears of happiness because it took me a really long time to even get that surgery, and for most

people it will take longer. The average age to get diagnosed with endometriosis is seven year years and I started having symptoms at thirteen. I had my surgery at fifteen or not fifteen, sorry, eighteen, so that was five years. That's shorter on average, and it will take any other person. And so I consider myself to be one of the lucky ones honestly, because there are people out here that

have been suffering for years. I can't imagine that even when you're not on your sack, when you're cramping or in pain. Yeah, and also like it leads like it it impacts your life so holistically, like hormonally, your emotions are going to change, you know what I mean. Like I never felt like I was out of PMS because it was just like I was feeling so much pain

and hormones. Like it's very uncomfortable and it's hard when you have chronic pain too, but you don't look necessarily disabled people are just like, oh, well, what's wrong with you? And it's like I have coucy issues, like leave me be Like I have issues with my vagina. So like, I was really happy when I had my surgery. But I also want to make sure that we don't have

to just have surgery is the only option. I want to see a world where people with endometrios is don't have to rely on surgery as their you know, treatment as the gold standard, because ultimately, we should not have to have robots and little cameras go in our bodies for us to be able to get concrete answers about

our health. Can it be caused by stress or anything? Um, your pain can definitely be increased and that's that was chronics your face if you breaking out, you will lose hair, you can grow tumors like what And people actually, um take birth control to control their hormones, like like if they if they experienced two intense fluctuations, yeah, mm hmm. So what did the doctors say, did they say, did they give you a percentage? Right? Are you able to

have children now? Or what? Do they say? Yeah? So luckily. The the other thing is ultrasound imagery is not accurate. It is a guess. The body is not two D, it's three D, right, So when you're using an ultrasound, you're getting a two D image of a three D object, right, So you can't always see the depth. You can't always see That's why, you know, if anyone ever tells you, oh, yeah, my doctor did an ultrasound on me, and they said, my baby is big and I won't be able to

push my baby out. Well, ultrasounds are not that efficient actually predicting things. They're just pieces of information that we ultimately use, you know. But the kind of effective rate of ultrasounds predicting things has been shown to not be that high. And that's just looking at different like actual controlled studies, but also comprehensive reviews of all the studies

about ultrasounds. So she said that we would have to do some extense of blood work, and so I was like, okay, I didn't know that would mean like twelve vials of blood. You know, I'm getting like poked and prodded. But they look at all of the different hormones in your blood. They look at lots of different panels and things like that, and to get an estimate basically about how many are left or how many are there, and luckily that information led to a conclusion that I did not have as

depleted over in reserve as they had. Initiative thought, Yeah, I know that. I love that you were like holding your breath because that's you know, that's that's something that when you are told things like that, you know, it's it's very weird, but you know there's hope, right, Yeah, I do know that there's a And you know, this is another thing I really want people to know is that we live in a world where people with endometriosis

get pregnant. You know, we live in that world. We live in a world where there's lots of different types of insemination method. It's doesn't necessarily need to be I v F because everyone thinks IVF is like the main thing. But you know, queer people have been inseminating each other for a long time with different things, so we have alternate ways, you know, and it's it's good to see that be normalized. And being that you are a doula, you've seen some of these things. Yeah, I've I've seen

and I've heard. But okay, so when we come back, we're going to talk about your your life as a doula, okay, and also I'm gonna get your thoughts on versus way okay, All right, y'all, we'll be right back. Fine, this is Vanessavil, callaway, peace. What's up everybody? This is trade change and you are listening to Lent with Don Day. Hold on, So before we jump back into our conversations there, you mentioned about

geriatric pregnancy. You said it's a myth. So I said it's a myth because the term aeriatric pregnancy refers to anybody that gets pregnant over the age of thirty five. So at thirty five years old, you're not geriatric. Your pregnancy is not geriatric. Like I'm pretty sure that the study that was actually used to determine the optimal age for reproduction was based entirely on studying white women, and um come on say it. Don't hold back. Come on, We're not them. We're just not them. We come from

different communities where our bodies are different. You know, we hold our children differently, we nurture our children differently. So when I hear people say the term geriatric pregnancy, it just reminds me of how much like medicine has made women and people fear they're own body's capacity. You know, what do you mean by their own capacity? Like what the body can do? Like limits on magic limits like Janet Jackson exactly, like and it's it's person to person

like it's not, it's not. It's really weird too that I see like most of the people saying that encouraging people to have kids in their early twenties, because I'm like, in this economy, somebody still take care with no you know, structure for caregiving. We don't have preschools that have capacity

right now that have popped back up since COVID. You know, we don't have support for moms that's like accessible, you know, we don't have support for dads almost like you know, just this part of the conversation has really gotten me inspired. One like my mom had me at was my mom thirty five? Yeah, my mom was thirty five and yeah, because she was thirty two and I'm I'm thirty said and that that is something that hits my hand. I'm like, well,

what does that look like? Me want to have children at the point right now, like I'm working out and stuff. And I've said this before, like I feel like I've been pregnant my whole life. So whoever I'm my partner, she gonna have to carry your fist. Man, we're gonna have to find Yeah, I just I don't see that happening at least, that's what I'm saying right now. I don't want to stop that. But yeah, I hear that

is that. I mean, that's that's it. That's you know, And I want to say and let me, let me use my words properly to say that I felt pregnant because I know that there is more than that to that before it's what it means to me is just carrying the weight, and I know that it is more than just a weight. It is a life. There is something beauty. But my experience and how it's been, how it's felt to me to not have a stomach, that's

something I'm looking forward to. It could change because as I'm hearing and I'm hearing something else and I'm judging myself. But but this is your truth right now, so just and so flexibility to change exactly. And that's the thing is that I'm so glad you can say you have the flexibility to change and not think, oh well, I have to decide right now. I have to go harvest my eggs right now so that I can preserve them and have my embryos frozen. You don't need to do that.

And because you know I have fibroids, and so I was asking you what was your experience like when you were like, oh my gosh, this is endometriosis. To hear how you handled it so cool. I remember I would I didn't even know, and you know you said something, you said, don you should just not be in pain. I will never forget I. Um I was going to my friend's birthday, Dion. I was in so much pain I couldn't even get out the car. And the thing that was interesting, I had went to see my um

my general practitioner. She had did my uh my path and she had noticed that it was it was abnormal. Abnormal she said, was always kind of large. Let me recommend you over to O B G Y N. And I felt like you. I felt like I was disregarded, like I felt judge because um I was heavier than I was now. But she was doing her examination, She's like, oh, that's just sound much tissue. And I was just like, first of all, you're up in me. Then you're like, oh, I just can't see, and she had said, oh, there's

five words. But I almost felt like it was a shame thing. And from then it took I waited, I dismissed it and go to the doctor. Then fast forward, um, she had did uh, she had to test to test a tissue. It came out uncancers, so that was fine, but they still wanted to say, hey, we should remove this. Really but at that point, I'm in so much shame, so I'm just like, forget it. I'm just I hadn't

experienced any pain then. Ever since she did that Bobus, I think like the following the next two months, I'm saying cramps. I couldn't even get out the bed, and I it hurt me so bad because I thought of my mother. She transitioned from stage for a breast cancer. I remember the time that she wasn't paying she was calling out to her mother and I said, oh my god, I can't even imagine the type of pain that she had experienced. And then that's when I was like, oh,

there's something that I need to do about this. And I think more conversations like this and people saying like, hey, this has happened to me. When you feel this type of pain, you should talk about And if your doctor or somebody else makes you feel uncomfortable, figure out somebody that does and what it feels like when you are comfortable and it is the right person. And ultimately we need to normalize these things because we should not suffer

in silence. There's that is like another level and layer of the injustices. You have something about suffering in silence, right are you? Lord? You're talking? If there's a book silence will not produce? You got that book that looks at we got goodies that Sarah has brought um. But wait, before there, we had to talk about the myth of geriator pregnancy, knowing that it is based on a certain

group of people. Knowing that if you do not identify or classify yourself as such person or as said person, there is possibility and not limit the magic of our bodies. I mean, life comes from this. Now at this point, now that you're like okay, you go to the doctor, they say, hey, I'm like cases, you can still possibly have children, you can possibly bring in life. Now you're in a career path where you're actually bringing in life and well not only bringing. But you're a full spectrum

do so? Okay, tell us about this. Okay, so do you want to do like dula versus midwife or just what is it? And then you have the midwife versus I don't know if it's just the regular delivery person with the doctor. So we do so we can go through all the terms. Okay. So, adula is a labor support person, right, It's someone that is with you for the physical, emotional and spiritual transition of pregnant to not pregnant, pregnant you know, with baby in you, and then labor

that process and then postpartum so the aftermath. I am a full spectrum doula, So that means that I am trained in supporting a person through the full spectrum of possibilities that could happen with pregnancy outcomes. So that could look like supporting someone experiencing a still birth, experiencing a miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, someone seeking an abortion, or someone ultimately you know, giving birth. So anything that falls

along that spectrum I am trained to provide support for. Okay, um, So,

then what's the difference between a doula and a midwife? Okay, So a doula is a non medical personnel, so we often have training in some form of medicine or some medical field, but our role anything medical is out of our scope, Whereas a midwife is a trained professional who has either undergone a direct entry route meaning that they attended a university and had an apprenticeship or preceptorship and had to sit and take an exam, or a nurse midwife.

A nurse midwife is someone who is a nurse and midwife that has midwif free training, but there's kind of separate entry routes, So midwives differ from doctors in a lot of ways. One midwives us the midwif free model of care. Two midwives WI free model real quick. Okay, So the midwif free model of care is an approach and model of providing care for someone experiencing pregnancy that recognizes that it is a normal, natural, and common part of life, not a medical emergency that should be managed.

So the midwiff free model of care basically is grounded in the principle that in the absence of um like anything that would confirm otherwise, we should allow natural processes to continue, right, So interventions are only suggested when there's evidence to indicate that there is a problem, but they're not looking for problems where an O, B, G, I. N may typically run a practice where that would happen.

And what would they be looking for a problem, because then they can operate on you and they can do a C section, and then they can bill you not only for the surgeon's fees, but for the antithesiologists. The O R fees usually have to do two three stay. You know, having highly medicalized births is highly profitable for the medical industrial complex, and they make so much money off of birth that it is a business offer. Like

the whole medical realms. It is so you I mean the way you you you gave, like the side I I feel like you're not really four like going to the doctor. So I don't want to say that. I want to see us having legitimate systems of community health care. And I think that a lot of people think that that means we can't rely or trust nurse as our doctors.

But it's really to me about training to build relationships, right, because when you're caring for someone and you're kind of holding a lot of power in regards to their health in their life, that's a very serious, sacred relationship that you're making with them. And I think that the way we operate currently doesn't allow for these relationships to occur.

And oftentimes doctors and medical personnel are unable to invest right enough time or one on one energy with their patients for their health care outcomes to actually address their health care needs. You know, because when we when we don't talk to each other, when when we really don't have a way of relating to the other person and connecting with them that is not simply based on trying to extract this list of um you know, statistics or data that you're trying to seek to make a diagnosis,

it becomes easier to see people as products. We need to put the humanity back in healthcare. We really do so. And uh is there something that a midwife could not do that perhaps doctor could do. So that depends on state to state. But currently O, B, G, I, N S are treated and have the utmost authority when it comes to birth right their medical doctors. They know they've

done the research. Most of them, if not all, have probably not seen a natural like normal physiological earth, you know, without UM some sort of intervention, whether it be in i V whether it be you know, a fully bulb to dilate their cervix, whether it be um you know, forceps apsotomy, you know, the cutting of the perennium. So they are used to engaging with birth in a medical context for whatever reason, they hold the most authority. They

have prescriptive authority. They are allowed to govern each other and themselves. But midwives are a different kind of category because doctors have a vested interest in trying to, you know,

stigmatize the midwiffree profession. You know, it's easy to say that midwives are uneducated and dirty and don't use practices that are up to standard, right, because we birth at home, we birth in community, so exactly like you can see, Okay, yeah, you know things aren't sterile exactly right, Okay, sure, And that's exactly how I was for years and years, and then I actually learned about the process of earth a physiological birth and learned that the interventions that are pushed

onto people are not ultimately more helpful than not intervening. There are people that are told that they won't be able to push their baby out because their baby is too big, right, um who said that? Like, whose baby is too big? Like why what? What? What? What does that mean? Like what does that? Like? What does that mean? The baby's too big? Like the baby was grown in this thing, so it's big enough, you know. But I'm I'm getting flash this girl to house a dragon. Did

you watch? Are you watching it? Did you watch? On? No? I heard there's a scen God heard there's a scene or where the mom dies. Yeah, and and then and and she was having, you know, issue, really difficult labor, and I'm just wondering what was We can't talk about this, I know, but but I will say that that a lot of people have talked to me about that, and they're like, it was so scary, it was so horrible.

And I was like so happy to hear people say that, because I think that was the first time that, like pop culture wise, people realize that, like maternal morbidity is an issue. My mother before she passed, she said, I got her own type. She says, don She said, having a baby is like going through death. It's it's like

death and rebirth. A lot of people describe it as because like you're going to the deepest parts of yourself and finding the straight it's a lot more mental than it is physical often, you know, and and and even just thinking that I didn't even think about to touch on this with you with just a historical context or with pregnancy. You know, how was it enforced on women and and and what that meant for a woman at

the time, resus today. But let's get back. So we talked and about how whether they're saying like Midwiffrey and it's not as sanitary until you were doing it, you said, hey, it isn't called dirty. Yeah, it's not dirty because um birth is a natural process that's meant to occur, right, We're meant to exit and our bodies and immune systems then learned so much information as we exit, you know,

the vaginal canal, as we exit the body. That doesn't happen with caesarean births because with cesarean births, the body is not actually physically able to process birth in a way that it is meant to occur. Right. So, cesarean birth is when um our surgical birth. Sometimes they're called a lot of times they're called cesarian sections, but yes, c section, that's super common. I try and use language like caesarian birth or surgical birth because they are still births,

you know, they are still births. People that have s arean births still have birth, you know, inclusively, it's we I've seen the ways that gentle cesareans work, which is where you know, instead of baby being rushed immediately cord clamp boom done, like everyone separated. It's like this huge

emergency um. You know, the baby is placed on the chest of the birth person and you know they can connect and they do a bedside evaluation of the infant instead of taking the infant to a different station to check it. A super shock, yeah, because I mean for the entire existence, they had the heartbeat, they had the

warmth of this being and immediately. So so when you talked about the entry into this world and whether or not scessarian birth or a natural birth or vaginal Oh, is there a difference between someone having birth on their back versus maybe squatting. So there's a physiological difference. When you're on your back, you're not in the ideal position to actually expand your pelvis. So our pelvic bones and like structures are really cool because they're actually they move.

You know, they're joined by ligaments and so as you move your body, you can feel certain parts of your body moving and expanding. So squatting, for example, allows the kind of like pelvic floor muscles to relax. They're not as like tense, which allows baby to descend usually like quicker.

When you're laying on your back, you are kind of in one of the worst positions, are you au farious, because when you're giving birth, you need to think about how you're making space right, Like it's like a It's like Jenga, you know that game Jenga, making space ensuring that everyone gets a turn. That's kind of how it is in the body. Like the pelvic bones and all of our bones, like in this general area are able

to move. We have these bones called sits bones that they're movable on our back, not movable like, oh, you can touch it and it moves. But depending on the position you're in, it will change the amount of space that there is for a baby to exit your body. So a lot of times we tell people to push with their knees in because when you put your knees in, what's actually happening is your low pelvis is being opened up. Yeah,

so it depends. I have a bunch of different um and a lot of birthworkers have to um like rotations or kind of like sets that you can do depending on where the baby is in your body's like if you want more like space in the mid pelvis right, or if you need more space in the outer pelvic inlet. There's certain positions and kind of movements you can do at different stages of labor, and these are things that

you probably won't do with it. V. G u Ant probably. Yeah, So that's why it's really important to hire a dula. You know, So, is a midwife the same as adula? No? Okay, so what's the difference between those two, right? So midwives are medical personnel, right, because they're still dulas are non medical. So as in my capacity as a dula, I do not touch any of the equipment from any of the practitioners, whether it be a midwife or a doctor, and there's

practitioner or something. You know, I'm there for the birthing person and whoever else is there with them. You know, it's my sole focus to really be there for them, and part of that usually looks like taking inventory of the relationships and the energy in the room. So you're not pulling the baby out, You're not Oh, I'm not pulling. No, we don't want to pull babies out. So you also, dulas are not like that, but emotional support. You guys

aren't actually taking the baby out. You just like you know what makes us because your energy is so calm. In fact, was telling Jeremiah about you from when we met months ago. I was like, I was like, her energy is how people describe my voice to be because people be like doing your voice is like so soothing almost like I was like, when you see her her energy, it's like, not in a degrading way, but it's so sexy.

It's so alluring, just so like come here, and then she'll be looking with her eyes and stuff, and then she got the wings on the side of I was like saying, stop, I cannot, But that means a lot, because you know, it really is a great energy. Well, I will hopefully be helping catching babies. I'm going to be applying to midwin Free School soon, so I'm really excited. And so that means so you're kind of never once are you going to consider being ob gy? Now? Wait,

why did you you had a second up? I mean, I thought you got the aspect of school to get in your way. I just don't think that I would thrive in a medical program like a like going to med school, I would develop more enemies than friends, And I wouldn't want to feel like I'm the odd one out, Like I actually want to learn with other people that like believe in the power of people's bodies and and

their autonomy. You know, I don't want to like be the lone person having to advocate for this, like when I don't have to be Plus, I've considered it, right, I've considered it, but ultimately at the end of the day, I just don't think i'd want that power either. So I was talking about power. What's my thoughts on this whole row versus ways? Which part which part? Whatever comes to mind. It's because we're talking about rights and whether

or not somebody can terminate a pregnancy. And the thing is is that sometimes what if it's a life or death situation, or what if you know, it's somebody is a victim of some type of sexual abuse, or just

like they don't want to be pregnant. Yeah, Like, there's plenty of times where I think we have to like give ourselves the grace to be like it doesn't have to be like the worst thing ever for us to like support someone's abortion, you know what I mean, because like I think those arguments they're super super galvanizing and like it's like, oh, that's so like that's such a good point, right, But ultimately, we support people's bodily autonomy,

not just when they're in crisis situations you know, or experience or you know, victims of violence or harm. Like we want people to have autonomy all the time. But is it not look that like, well, you're responsible enough to get pregnant, so you need to figure out what to do with right, But where does that idea come from that just because we have the organs to get pregnant, that like if we do, it says something about us,

you know. For me, like I don't think if someone gets pregnant that like it means that like, oh, you know you like most people say like, oh, you did the deed. You got to kind of like open up or be willing to take responsibility. But like you're not wrong for getting pregnant. You know, that just happens sometimes, Like it's just something that happens in life. Sometimes people can control it, sometimes they can't. It's neither here nor there.

It's going to happen. You know. I think we spent a lot of time focusing on the like perception of like what like, oh, someone like that, you know, someone like that, someone who would have unprotected sex, you know, someone who would do these things that maybe don't fit into our purview of what we would do. But what does that say about us? Then? Yeah, like when we

need support, we really should be met with judgment. So you feel like Row versus Way, which you're highly opposed because the judgment not just the judgment, but I mean it's literally limiting abortions healthcare. You know, we're literally revoking people's access to healthcare because of like men, like literally men made this decision, you know, and it was bad before Row. I want people to know that of counties in California do not have a single abortion clinic and

we are you know, blue state, we protect us. This is right now of counties. I mean that's like a fucking lot of people, Like it's millions of people that I have to drive miles even to just get to a clinic. I mean when when we think about it like that, and this is the issue that I have too, is you know, g have a Newsom, the governor announced that there's this like scholarship fund for nursing students and people that are going to be providing abortion related health care. Cool.

We don't have enough people professionals in the state of California that can teach that to other people because general practitioners and care providers like family nurse practitioners or family medicine doctors often don't receive or receive very little education and abortions and you know, miscarriage management. Um, and that's intentional. You know, that's super intentional and it sucks. Yeah. So do you feel that what are your thoughts on that the before this was an issue whether or not I

was going to be overturned real vicious way. As far as a time limited when somebody can get an abortion, do you think that should exist If somebody wants to abort a baby at eight and a half months, should it be fun? I mean, that's not really for me to decide. You know. One I think one example we can look at is Christie taken So last year, so

she was very public about experiencing pregnancy loss. Yeah, and um, you know, she recently came out saying, let me call it essentially, I'm just paraphrasing, but she said, like, let me call it what it was. I hadn't I had an abortion, right. And that's because people that have miscarriages or experienced spontaneous pregnancy loss that is not connected to any factors that could be you know, found it just spontaneous. Right.

They are often needing and often received the same kind of healthcare, the same surgeries, the same medications, the same therapies and treatments that someone seeking an abortion would because for the body, abortion and miscarriage are the same. So was it an abortion or miscares this year? That's the thing. It's like, I don't I thought I didn't know if I heard like she had to compare like her losing her life or or what was her life in danger? I don't know if I've read that, but I did

see abortion. I just put it together, like, oh, but the reason why is because her life was in danger. And it's situations like that. The majority of abortions take place in the first or second trimester. I mean, if people had access to abortions, we wouldn't have to worry about these kinds of things, like what happens at eight

months if someone does, because obviously that happens. But if people had readily, you know, accessible abortion related sexual health related healthcare, they wouldn't have to kind of push off the choices that they wanted to make you and also be ashamed or embarrassed about it. So we're gonna transfer over.

I have this segment this entitled shed Light Onto shed Light on This, And basically it's a segment where'm gonna give you a scenario, right, and it's gonna have a character who's dealing with the situation and they don't know how to handle it dthing, and that's where you come in. So I just want you to come up with whatever you feel like the solution is that you feel will work best based on the situation that this character's in. So basically there it's your advice. So don't trimp, don't sweat,

because there's no right or wrong answer. So are you ready to give some knowledge about your life experience? Okay? I am? Are you listening alright? So Danielle is a twenty six year old expecting mother. She is currently two months pregnant and this will be her first child. Danielle is not in contact with the person that got her pregnant. She has the love and support of her parents and friends,

but she is still anxious about the pregnancy process. Her best friend, Jasmin, suggested that she finds a birth through lot to get her through their pregnancy, but Danielle can be very stubborn, often refused to ask for help even once she were needs it. She pushed back on Jasmine's advice because all the people she knows who have given birth never had a dula. She also doesn't think she

can afford one. Jasmin told Danielle that it won't hurt to try out, try it out, but Danielle is still insure, Sarah, can you help this some light on this? Yes, So, I, as a doula, will always recommend that people have a doula point blank period because there is a level of extra hug that you need a little little extra like security blanket of someone that's there for you, that you can rely on, and just knowing that you have that is going to make you feel more comfortable and confident

navigating the journey. So doula care can be expensive. I'll also say that ultimately it's worth it because you have to think of it as an investment, you know, it's an investment in your birth, your baby, your process, and it's very person specific, very tailored to what each person needs. And there's never a time where I will not recommend do look here. But with that being said, I hear Danielle's concerns. You know, it's hard to ask for help,

you know, you worry about affording one. Most dula's, like myself, work on a sliding scale, so we offer a range of you know, price points that people can choose based on their own ability. And I also, you know, utilize payment plans, so it's not a burden to be able

to have care during pregnancy. You know, ultimately most of us are in this work not to make a buck, you know what I'm saying, Like it's it's it's kind of sad actually, how devalued like financially do look here is so the state of California is like trying to do this big integration of doulas into medical and what that looks like is dula's having to work and basically become registered and work with physicians in order to get like someone to sign off or like to approve their

hours and stuff. And I'm really concerned about that because doulas are community members. You know, we're not bound to a code of ethics. We are not bound to a medical board. We don't have licenses that can be revoked. We are community members who have answered a calling and

have shown up for people. And I fear that with the regulation like this increase in this desire to regulate and professionalize UM do LA care, that ultimately it's going to center the most privileged, you know, the white du lahs, you know, who can take on all these clients with medical like through medical because they will work with a physician that will you know, give them their signatures that

they need UM and then we have a disparity there. Yeah, I mean a lot of people, a lot of people just don't want to work with UM or under a medical person. And that's well within our rights as dulas, like we are not medical personnel. We are comfortable. Well that's that's where our power is is that we're not

there for the medicine. We're there for the medicine that's in here, you know, like we're really there to to be there to hold and most most often you know, you're not going to get that holding in that care from your provider because of the way that maternal health care structured in the United States. It's so I would really hope that Danielle would, you know, feel comfortable. I also have an awesome DULA friend named Jasmine, so I was like, that is so funny. And she's from Alabama.

She went to University of Alabama and she's actually gonna be going back saying. Is the doulah field very diverse? Um? It depends. So me, I did not go to a training where there were a lot of white people. I was trained by an organization called the Birthworkers of Color Collective. We are you know, we're people of color. We're not catering towards UM, a white birthing demographic. But there's a

lot of UM racial inequality in the birthwork field. Yeah, you'll see a lot of times UM white presenting or white adjacent or white people getting UM recognize for work that they're not necessarily doing. You know, they're getting grants for communities that they're not necessarily a part of UM because you know, a lot of white people like to do diversity work. You know, they like to work with people of color, teen moms, poor people. That makes that

diversity inclosion. But I mean, there's a whole lot of us who are from those communities, so kind of would make sense for us to support our community members. I don't know, but you know, some of them don't think that way, so it is interesting. But I have a really really strong kind of community and network of black and brown dulas and birth workers of color, and that's where I'm comfortable and that's where I'm staying. I heard that a lot of that. I didn't have to be

here for a minute. But one other thing that I think would be so important just for us a young mother that's about to go on there to give birth, for that father that is accompanying his wife, his girlfriend, his significant other, for anybody that is walking in the room or experiencing themselves walking the room or can pushed in there about to give birth. What are the things

that they should think about? If you could give like a checklist or just say, hey, keep these things in my while giving birth, preparing for birth, or anywhere in between the process, what would you say? You know what your boundaries are. You have to do a very deep inventory and check in with yourself about what your pregnancy should look like for you. You know who you want to be around you during your pregnancy who you don't

want to be around. Um, there's a lot of times that we have, you know, stressful people in our lives. You don't want all the extra stress. You don't want all the extra stress when you're pregnant. Um. I tell people to look at the way that their home is set up. Physically. You may need to adjust some things. You know, you may need to move some chairs closer to your bed. You know, you may be getting a crib. You need to physically orient your space for a new

person to come in. And I would also say that this goes back to having boundaries. Is I know what you are comfortable with and know the risk, okay, because this is an experience for your health care, so that you can be happy and health Yes. And also it's like we become desensitized because we think it's a medical thing to be managed, but it's people give birth every day and it's an experience. Sir out inhailed you for quite some time. Should I pull out of time in

the body. It's not necessary, all right, I know it's so much. Okay. Last thing, so here there are terms that relates to you in your life line. So specifically to you. Not. The thing that makes it interesting about the terms in here is that, say, if you were a basketball player, you're a ref. Always give this example. So get used to it, y'all. Say, if you are a basketball player, ref, there may be a term in their pivot because that is a movement, a term in basketball.

But just as you pivot on the court like you are turned, sometimes you gotta pivot in life. You see the double entire there? Okay, good, So in here, like I was saying, the words that relate to you, and um, tell us what they mean and then how they can be used to inspire somebody. Okay, says I think you're catching it, while I think it's like all right, all right, let's get this going. Okay, Okay, here we go. Okay, life,

it's life. It just says life. Um, I would probably say that it's the very very small parts of life

that through this work I've begun to appreciate. So if you've ever seen a baby, realized that a window is a window, and realized the outside is outside, you feel like you're watching the shortest and most amazing movie of all time because you're literally watching like a human, you know, a real life human that needs a lot of nurturing and care, like understand that, like this is the world and they are inside a box and it is so interesting,

and you know, sometimes they cry, sometimes they scream, and that's how life can be. Sometimes. You know you want to cry. You want to scream in your box too. But the growth is always there. M yeah, And if you just keep on living, you're gonna keep on growing, right, that's it. Just keep on keeping on because if it isn't over, it's not all right, then it's not all right. It isn't catch it all right? Sir? Where can they follow you? Um on social media? Do you have any

future projects you want people to know about? Tell us all the good stuff? Okay, so yes, you can follow me on social media. I ran an Instagram count called Tales of a Dye, which I can I can send you or you have access to and I can. What is that? Oh my gosh, I thought that was day like Dawn did die? Yes, So, a dye is the traditional term that we use in a lot of South Asian communities to describe a birth attendant. So it's kind

of like my tales. That's why I call it, Like the tales of my journey because I want to show other people that becoming a midwife, becoming someone that works in community healthcare is something that we can do. There's a lot of barriers to starting in this field or like getting a career in this field, and you know, especially being a younger person, Like I don't want people to think that midwives are only people that are like older.

They have to you know, like the role of a grandmother, Like no, we can we can be whatever we want to be. Yeah, so you can follow me there. Um, I'm working on a abortion do look Collective so in a national abortion do look collected to train abortion do lias so? Um. Information will be posted on my Instagram soon. Yeah, it's exciting, you know, let me just call me. I know, I keep talking and I think that there is a negative. Of course it is because that's why people are opposed

stigmas into abortion. Because when you said abortion and you smiled at me, I saw a bloody image of a baby mm hmm. And that's just being transparent. And it could be any situation of who knows, it could be a still birthday, could be anything like you said. But my mind was, you know, in conflicence. We've been smiling at that, right because I'm like, wow, is with the abortion happened? Is right? But because that's all we've been taught.

That's all we've been taught. We are taught that it is an uncommon, extremely difficult procedure that is so emotionally intense. It's taught exactly. We're not taught that medication abortion is safer than going for a drive, attending a frat party, or even carrying a pregnancy to term. You know, we're not taught these statistics, so that medication abortion is safer than taile and all you know that it has an efficacy rate that's higher than birth control. So we we

are with informations withheld from us where miss we're miseducated intentionally. Gosh, Donnard, Okay, well, thank you for that information. Check it out tells of a die hope. Yes, you did say, it's like this like you know, yeah, all right, and what else we got? So I gave you a guide from we testify about how to use medication abortion pills. Yeah, because this is information that's publicly available through the World Health Organization and this is just information sharing, So you know this is

not encouraging anyone to do anything. It just letting you know their options, hearing that people like you with the same mindset exists. And when you're not alone, you're not alone. And when you have information, you can make informed choices, and informed consent is always the goal. So yeah, okay, so that's what you're working one next, and is there any other way that we can support you? You know,

just start talking about the things that matter. I mean, I think it's really great that more and more people that that don't necessarily do this work are interested about it. You don't have to necessarily want to do it. You can just be like what's up with that? You know what I mean, Like like I want to know about that?

You just want to know. So listen. If you like Joe and you want to know, you better go follow Sarah Okay on all of her social media and tell somebody about her because there are people who need to

know how important it is or who needs support. Because hell, she was talking about me in a duel and I'm thinking myself my mom transitioned over ten years ago, and with the support that she says that a duly can offer, I can imagine that could be a comfort of me, along with my sister, along with my family, but just that person that you can just exhale with, you know, because birth isn't experience, gosh darn it, and life be life,

and it'd be nice to just life life, you know. Yeah, And I think ultimately it feels unnatural for us to have to experience so much pain alone because we're not meant to experience those things alone. You know, We're meant to be wrapped up in our community, any people that it can hold us and care for us when when we need that health care period period. There we go. Okay, y'all, well, I guess it's about time to head out of year. I hope you feel inspired. I hope you got something

from it. You know. That's what it's about. And that's where about shedding light. Now, if you'd like to be a guest on the show, uh, you can go ahead and send us email Vitamin D at Dawn day Speaks dot com, or if you have an idea for a topic, he'll I didn't know I was gonna have a dulo on talking about all this good stuff, but it was good, right. Um. You may also need some advice, you know, your love, your career, ask for rations, how you feeling whatever? Have you?

Email me Vitamin D at dawn day speaks dot com. Now you know I always say, so, I'm gonna remind you again, what do I say? If you want to be better and you want to do better, you have to be able to see better. So know that when you're writing me and I'm giving you my response, it may not always be the thing that you want to hear here. But I just want to let you be able to see so that you can make an inform decision right, give you you another perspective to see it right, No,

that it's coming out of love. Furthermore, if you still listen, that means that you enjoyed this. So can't you tell somebody to tell somebody else to tell somebody else that do on Day? Got a podcast and it's called Vitamin D with Dawn Day, and it's available wherever. I didn't say somewhere. I didn't say over there. I didn't say just on my heart er, Apple or Spotify. I said everywhere you get your favorite podcasts. Okay, and me in the world to me, you process my dream and while

you're at it, go ahead and rate it. You see the stars up there, go a hand and hit five and make a little calm and say something that you liked about it or maybe some adjustments. Just say something that somebody can make it informed decision to check us out. Okay. Another thing, if you want to see this beautiful young ladies that I'm looking at, go ahead and follow us on on social media. Vitamin d Doing Day. We our clips. We got excerpts on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, fan Bay,

Pinterest wherever. However, tres y'all side, So check us out. Okay. And now if you want some invitamin do you know the original source that be me? You can find them follow with me personally at Dawn Day Speaks. Okay, now I'm out of here for real. You know I always say I'm in the business and making dreams come true,

and a damn sure ain't gonna forget about mine. So until next time, you know, I always say you like your greatest asset, peace, get the inviteminy right with me and get excited about your lives.