Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Danielle Cobo: HR is often misunderstood and seen as a daunting department to approach, but HR can actually be a valuable partner in helping you succeed in your career. In this episode, we debunk HR myths and discover how to best interact with HR for professional success. With 20 years of frontline experience in the HR field, it is safe to say that today's guest, Dr.
Carrie Ulrich, is considered an expert as the co-author of the way of the HR Warrior, she continues her mission to share insights from these experiences with others who passion to be the best in their HR arena.
Danielle Cobo: Hi, Carrie. Thank you for joining the podcast today.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Hi, thank you so much. Excited
Danielle Cobo: to be here. Well, we're excited to have you as well, share with our listeners what inspired you to get into your role that you're in, your journey through being in hr.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So I wasn't inspired to be in HR when I was younger, so I don't know.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: I many people who say, oh, I can't wait to be in hr. At least my son never says that. and he's 15. He's like, sounds like the worst job. Ever. So that's fun to hear. But no, I really, I was studying psychology and that was very interesting to me. So that's what I went to school for. I thought human behavior was fascinating.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And then I had student loan debt. This is how things sometimes happen for a reason. Right. So, then, got involved in HR through just finding a program through, Loyola University when I was in Chicago. And so got a job as a manager trainee kind of position, those rotational positions that.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: People have in corporations, and it was in HR and it was at a giant HR for, I mean, they had 300 HR people. So yeah, I know, that's the way I started. I thought that was normal. And then I realized, oh my goodness, that's not normal at all. so I learned and I saw this impact that you could have, and so it really spoke to me then on this individual level where you could help people and coach them and help them with a very personal thing sometimes.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Sometimes it. You give them a job and you're not that I can have that control in hr, but I have facilitated the process that they get a job and that could change their lives. I've worked with people where they needed H one B visas. They needed to be reunited with their families. I mean, that's like really powerful stuff on an individual level.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: You see people get promoted, there's beautiful things that happen, and then on a systemic level, you get to institute programs. Can help the entire organization, that can help the environment of the organization. And so the psychology part of me, the person who wants to make a difference in the world, you can very much do that by being in HR.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Because if you create and help to create these beautiful environments, At work, people are happier. And so when you go home happier, guess what? Your family's happier. You're happier, you're in a better place. You have more space to do more profound things, so it's just amazing to be in HR and make that impact.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: People that work
Danielle Cobo: in HR hold a very special place in my heart because the impact that you make, it creates a ripple effect. Mm-hmm. As you're talking about getting the right people in the right roles and providing programs that help them be the best version of their selves professionally and personally, you hold to just.
Danielle Cobo: A special place in a lot of people's lives and how it's influenced and changed and it really does. It's a very special role within an organization that I believe has a lot of misconceptions sometimes. Share with us, what do you think are some of the misconceptions that people have maybe on hr? Mm.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Well, with that amount of specialness, like you said, it has, there's the flip side and the dark side. So as much as I can make an impact and help people and facilitate getting a job and getting a promotion, there's the downside of that where people get terminated, people don't get the job. People have been told that they're going to lose their job because they have done something.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Not in line with the values of the company. So there's, you're in the, my friend, I'll back up and say, my friend said, what type of life do you want? Do you wanna be at the, first row of the boxing ring where you get like sweat and blood on you? Of course he was a dude, a real dude who like that. Of course he has to use a boxing metaphor, but, or do you wanna be way in the balcony where it's very.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: But you don't get any of the action on you. And I said, well, I'm first row. And in a way, HR is very much first row. So there's this amazing experience, but then there's also this dark side Because of that and because we don't. Hmm. I think as an HR profession, the companies and organizations don't really laude it.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: It's not lauded like you just did, Danielle. Right. Like you just said on how beautiful this profession can be. And so we have not only have people experienced darker sides of HR where I've been fired and HR did it, which. Not true. It's the business that does it. We facilitate it, but it doesn't matter to an employee, right?
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: They see my face, they don't see someone else's face sometimes. So that's a negative part. And the profession isn't really, it's a helping profession. So the same thing we see with teachers and nurses sometimes where we don't, they often don't get the respect of the profession they need. So you have that going for it.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And then I guarantee you have run into some not so great HR folks. They are out there. I'm not saying that the entire profession, just like any profession, you have really amazing people and then you don't have the best people. The problem is when you run into that not so good HR person, you tell all your friends cuz it was usually a very personal thing for you.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: That either they never got back to me and I didn't get a benefit, or they have this stupid program and they keep asking me my opinion. I don't care. I mean, it's very personal. So you tell people. So then that continues it. So there's a lot of misconceptions that, were pretty negative. were jaded. I think that misconception that we control things that like, oh, HR fired me, or HR hires me.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: That is extremely rare. Maybe in 1% of the case where the business leader just doesn't wanna do it and says, please, you make the decision. But usually we are trying, we're facilitating, we're coaching, and sometimes we totally disagree with the business. But it's the business leader's job and decision, and so we have to support it.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So I think people really think that we have this power that we do not have. That's probably the biggest misconception.
Danielle Cobo: Well, for. Anybody that's listening right now. I know from firsthand experience that there has been times where our organization, the organization that I worked for, we had gone through restructuring.
Danielle Cobo: We had gone through downsizing and HR was not part of that decision. The decision was made by our VP of sales. Mm-hmm. By the board members, by the stakeholders, the stockholders. Mm-hmm. Those were the people that were making the decision. It was a financial decision on what they needed to do to be able to generate more revenue within the business to be able to sustain the business or to take the business to the next level in the future.
Danielle Cobo: But the HR person was not part of the decision making process. They were part of the decision making process when it came to how are we going to communicate this? Yes. To the individuals that are being let go, what resources are we gonna be able to provide them when they've been laid off, when they have been fired in any circumstance?
Danielle Cobo: So I'm glad that you really brought that up, that it is not HR often that is making that decision. Mm-hmm. it's actual different stakeholders within the organization, and you've spoke so beautifully on. I have had HR leaders who have been instrumental in helping me be a leader, where there have been times where, they've helped me with writing performance reviews.
Danielle Cobo: Helped navigate through very difficult conversations, helped with some employees that were having some, personal situations that were at a rise and how to approach it and support them. And they were linked arms linked alongside me, arm and arm, and help me navigate through situations I had never gone through before as a leader, as a first time manager.
Danielle Cobo: And then there's been other times where I've had, an HR. Director where never got back to me. I had, shared some very personal information and it felt very dismissed. there was some toxicity happening in, our work environment and it wasn't addressed and I felt.
Danielle Cobo: I didn't feel supported at all. and it was such a drastic difference between two people within the same organization, and it's unfortunate because that is the person. That you want in hr, you look for somebody who you can be open, honest, trust, and vulnerable. Yeah. Because as you mentioned, you're often having those difficult situations that come up that you're trying to navigate through.
Danielle Cobo: Yeah. And if you can't feel like you trust and that you can be open and honest and not feel judged with the person that you're talking to in hr, it can really affect the.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, I'm sorry you had that experience. I wish it, you were the only person with that experience, but I know that is not true.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And I think because again, like you said, it's so personal and you shared things that this is what makes it so hard when there's a poor talent in HR versus a poor talent. you've been in sales, Danielle, poor talent in sales. What do we do? They're like the easiest person to let go cuz you're like, you didn't make your numbers and it's really clear and everyone's like, bye, but you didn't feel it.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Personally, you maybe felt it because this person impacted your maybe bonus, right? Because oh man, we didn't make the number cuz this guy didn't make the numbers. but for hr, you're so vulnerable and, sometimes it's the only person you can talk to. If you're having problems on your team. We can't just go talk to everyone and say, man, This person's really a schmo and I can't figure out like how to deal with this person.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And the HR person can talk to you about that. And if you have a poor person in that position, you have no support, like you said. And you really need it as a manager. Cause it's very lonely as a manager sometimes you really can't, there's not a lot of people to talk to. sometimes you don't wanna talk to your manager.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Because you're thinking, uh oh, I gotta figure this out before I talk to my manager. I'm not quite sure what to do. And it can be very lonely. And if you have that partner like you had, it's amazing and you are better for it. And you could get further in your career with a better partner like
that.
Danielle Cobo: Yeah, absolutely. definitely. And in that particular situation, because I didn't feel like my concerns were being addressed. Mm-hmm. The situation got worse and worse and worse. And it not only affected, my relationship with this particular individual, it affected the team dynamic. Mm-hmm. the culture within my team started to go very sour.
Danielle Cobo: Because, and then also in a collaborative environment too, because there was this individual. That had a poor attitude was very rude. Customer complaints because that wasn't being addressed. Then my peers on other teams started to look at me and say, mm-hmm, well, why aren't you addressing this? And I'm mm-hmm.
Danielle Cobo: Thinking inside. I'm trying everything that I can, but I don't know what to do cause I'm not getting supported by hr. Yep. and I will say this, I do have a book coming out. So for those of you listening, I share the whole story in detail of what happened. but I wanna be mindful that we get you for such a short amount of time.
Danielle Cobo: So, let's also talk about, okay, so how, if you have a situation that comes up, let's say you've got toxicity in the workplace. Let's say you've got a personal challenge that's come up and you're not sure how to navigate it. Let's say maybe you. Having some challenges working with a coworker or a manager, what are some ways that we can create an open dialogue conversation with hr?
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Yeah. I think one of the things, if you have that talent, that Danielle, you know, right? Is, a good talent and will help you if you don't have that HR talent. That's a different scenario, but let's talk when you have a good kind of professional for you. Usually HR people don't go to them with, they go to them at the last minute, right?
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So when it becomes so bad that all of a sudden you're, the HR person's like, oh, I don't even know what to do at this point because it's so far down the path. So I think the first thing that I would say is, The sooner when you feel it in your gut. And managers, sometimes we feel it and we ignore it. We're like, I'm sure in a couple weeks it'll get better or I'm sure I think if we win that sale, it'll get better,
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: When you feel
Danielle Cobo: it. I definitely thought that. Yes. Right. Definitely being one of those managers. Oh, go feel better.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: there's a couple things working against you. A, you don't have time for that. You're like, oh man, I don't have time for that. And then not many of us are really excited to go into conflict.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Not many of us go, man, you know what? That person has a bad attitude. I can't wait to like uncover that and talk to them about it and really get. That's a rare kind of person who does
Danielle Cobo: that, right? It's more or less it ruminates in my head of how am I gonna have this conversation? I dunno what to do, what am I gonna right?
Danielle Cobo: Conflict avoidant a little bit is what I am. Probably, yeah. Because I just, I don't want conflict. So you spot,
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: right? so we're all delaying it and I've delayed stuff too. There's one conversation that in my head that I'm like, oh, I delayed that too long. Now it's too late, but as soon as you feel it.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: In your gut, or you just know you're thinking Uhoh, talk to your HR person and say, Hey, you know what? I wanna be proactive. I wanna talk to you because I can talk to you. This is a safe space and I wanna talk to you about either it's my employee or I'm having a problem with my teammate. And what do you think I could do to help this?
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And sometimes the best solution is for you to talk directly to the person. And this is where an HR person can, role play it with you. They can give you some prompting questions. They can go through the scenarios. And sometimes all you need is to, as I like to say it, in such a professional way, just vomit it out.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Right? I just wanna say how mad I am. I just wanna say, and then, Okay, I can now talk to the person because I got out the hot emotion, with hr. HR said, okay, I'll take the hot emotion. That's fine. And then you'll have the cooler emotion when you talk to the person. So I think try to do it as soon as you can and also know
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: What you need from the conversation. So you might just say, you know what? I just need to vent, or I really need your problem solving. I'll do it myself. Or, could you help mediate it a bit because I think it's pretty serious and I really need your help. HR typically will say they want you to talk to the person first because they want that bond, because you, no one really likes to be triangulated, but sometimes you have.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Sometimes it's, a pretty bad situation, and so you need a third party to kind of help you navigate that. So I think that that's where sooner rather than later talk to HR and get their opinion and work through it with them.
Danielle Cobo: The best advice cuz I've done it in both ways. There have been times where I'm conflict avoidant.
Danielle Cobo: Oh. I think in my head it will get better. Things will turn around and then all of a sudden it gets worse and worse and worse. Worse. And as I shared it created a very toxic environment in my team. Yeah. And with peers and with customers. And what I've learned through that experience is the earlier the.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Yes, the earlier the better. And I think, in hr, so if this were, five HR folks, chit-chatting over a happy hour, they would all tell you, but 99% sure that as it delays, as you don't talk about it, as it festers, especially if this is maybe someone who works on your team.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: All of a sudden they kind of know it's not going well. So now there become more performance issues. Maybe that person all of a sudden wants to go out on leave. It's kind of the joke with hr. As soon as someone's kind of knowing they're not doing well in their job, they go out on leave, or something happens or
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Like it just rarely does it get. Better on its own, and sometimes it can get far worse. And then you're in this position where you talk to HR and they're like, oh, well if we would've talked about that like five months ago. I was just talking to someone the other day about it was an absentee issue. And unfortunately they've let a lot of the behavior go.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So then what happens now? The person's like, well, it was fine five months ago and now you're upset about it. So now it's a horrible experience for that employee too, cuz they thought everything was fine. Because by not saying anything, you've condoned the behavior. So it is, yeah, don't delay.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: It's painful. It's painful for everyone. And that's when then HR gets a really bad rep too, right? Because they're like, well, they won't let me fire the person or they won't let me do this. And you're like, well, you waited till last minute and I didn't know any of this and now you have a lot of liability.
Danielle Cobo: Yeah, and that goes into the importance of documentation as well. So it's
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: something you've been there, obviously. You know the D word.
Danielle Cobo: Yeah, I do know the D word. It's not, I'll say this, documentation is first and foremost not something a manager wants to do. That is the absolute last thing horrible I want to do.
Danielle Cobo: It's horrible. It's horrible. Absolutely horrible. I much rather be with my team. I know helping them. Inspire them, developing them into the what they want to accomplish and achieving their goals. The last thing I wanna be doing is doing the tedious work. Yes. Of documenting. He said, she said, yep. Horrible.
Danielle Cobo: This is what happened.
Danielle Cobo: but I've also learned early on that if you see performance issues, document early and often, have open dialogue conversation, yes. And approach it with a curiosity. And I say that. It may be that there's a situation, maybe there's something going on in their personal life. Maybe they're a high performer, but maybe there's something going on in their personal life.
Danielle Cobo: Mm-hmm. And I've had that happen before. Somebody that consistently hit didn't hit their number three quarters in a row. It wasn't normally like them. Yeah. But I assume when I, really took that curiosity approach, found out that there was something very major going on in their personal life. Yeah.
Danielle Cobo: And once they were able to create the space to, be there for their family, they came back. Crushed it from then forward.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And isn't that amazing? that, again, because you talked to them early on versus in sales, what if I had four quarters of bad numbers, three quarters of bad numbers?
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Then it's like, I can't even help you because it's so late. And people are like, Nope, that person has to go. And so by talking to them earlier, finding out what's going on, especially if they're a good performer, and you said the documentation and, one way to. Documentation as well is to hire really good culture fits for you.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So I think one of the things for managers when they'll say, eh, HR doesn't need to interview the person, or I just know this person, or I don't need assessments, or, we just have to do it really fast. And a body is better than zero body. Like a warm body is better than zero body. Not true. Actually.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Nobody body is better than like a body that you're think. I think they're fine. I mean, I think he's kind of strange, but, ah, I think it'll work out it because you're so desperate and then you get into the situation of like, I should have never hired this person and now I have to get him out. And so wait to hire someone who's actually gonna fit really well with your culture and your team, and then you won't have to document as much.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: If you Okay.
Danielle Cobo: My stomach is just turning inside right now. I have hired a lot of people over the years, Uhhuh, and there have been times where I took my time. Yeah. It was a lengthy process, often with our company was a six interview process. And you were often in situations where there was field co travels, there was panel interviews, so a lot of exposure to a lot of different people.
Danielle Cobo: And as I mentioned, the time where I had somebody that was not performing, they were rec receiving several customer complaints. The reputation on the team was that they had a poor attitude, that they were rude was the higher that I rush. See, because Yep. And I knew, and looking back, I saw the red flags early on.
Danielle Cobo: but I rushed it because I wanted to get a body in place because our particular division had constant. Turnover, but for a positive reason. Mm-hmm. There was a lot of growth coming from our team. Our team was high performers. They were great at what they did, and so they got promoted into various roles.
Danielle Cobo: But with that came turnover. And, for anybody that's a manager right now, or if you're not a manager, know that time period of, leading your team and then also. Looking at resumes, interviewing people, hiring, onboarding. It is a lot of extra, extra work. Mm-hmm. Probably the most stressful time in a manager when you're trying to either Yep.
Danielle Cobo: Hire somebody in. Yep. Or move somebody
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: out. Yep. It is so much time and I think that's, the secret of people management. It is extra time. It is at least, I think the last study that my business partner and I saw, and this is a while ago, it was like an extra hour a day for people, managers, and it's gotta be more now.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So when you think, oh yeah, it's like, I'll do it when I can get to it. No, no, no. Like it is a lot of time and that hiring, and I still remember the ones that I. Oh, but no, I'm sure we could overcome that. like you had that little thing, you're like, oh, and that person didn't survive. and so I think that, you know, it, you gotta take that time and it's so hard to find that time, but you will pay for it at some point.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: It's like in construction, if you, don't pay a lot for a good foundational or you're like, eh, we can hurry up and put the scaffolding up real super quick, I'm sure it'll be fine. And then there'll be lots of consequences later. That's what happens when you don't hire the right people. And so that's when the managers get into a lot of problems is not having the right teammates.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And again, the culture fit with your team and this is where the multiple interviews and getting other people's opinion and being really clear what you want as well. And what fits. And so, I, when I interview, I'll ask questions on working like hours of work and how you wanna. How you kind of integrate your work life, because that's important and we gotta figure that out.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And, if you, I'll pick up the phone at six, but then I'll, maybe not start till nine or something like that. So it, you just have to like figure that stuff out and have a real discussion about it. I remember one time I interviewed someone and we had, we were in a really intense period of work and I said how we were up until like literally nine and 10 o'clock in meetings because we're launching something.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: I could see her face went, oh, and I said, this is a very atypical thing. We usually don't work like that, but this is a really important project for this company and we all really committed to it. And, she withdrew her application after that. And I thought that was perfect because we kind of liked her too.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: But if she wasn't willing once in a blue moon to put in the extra effort, then don't be on the team. That's fine. She probably found another job that was really good. But be really specific on what you need too. That'll help you as a
Danielle Cobo: manager. I love those situations because, It just means that she might not be the right fit for the team.
Danielle Cobo: Team. Exactly. The company exactly. Doesn't mean that she's not a high performer in whatever Exactly. Capacity that is or doesn't have the right skill. Exactly. Maybe it's just not alignment. But you brought up, the right, fit. Mm-hmm. And. Often I see recruiters and I see talent acquisition managers and they'll say, this is the job description and this is what we're looking for.
Danielle Cobo: But when they go to collect resumes and they, go to sift through the resumes, they don't take the time to talk with the manager. Hmm. And my approach being a sales manager was, I look for the three Ts. It was, what are the immediate needs of the territory? So every covering my region was across five states.
Danielle Cobo: Every territory. Miami was very different than my territory. Oh yeah. In North Carolina. Different than Atlanta. and so I looked at. What were the territory needs? What was the history of the territory? Was it a new and emerging territory? Did it have a lot of key opinion leaders, thought leaders? what's the competition like in that particular territory?
Danielle Cobo: So I looked at what were the immediate needs of the territory? What were the immediate needs of my team? Was there certain strengths that we had on our team, but maybe we wanted to add in new skills, maybe as we were for our team in sales, we were doing a lot of development on social media, but it wasn't a skillset that we had particularly on our team.
Danielle Cobo: So I was like, I really wanna hire somebody that's got a strong social media background. I can teach them the sales stuff, but this is something that we need on our team. And then it was time. And what I mean by time. If I'm a sales manager, can I sit in the car with somebody for eight hours on a co travel and enjoy my time with the person?
Danielle Cobo: and that every single position on my team. I love that. Those three Ts we're different. Mm-hmm. It is not a one size fit all for the
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: particular position. It absolutely isn't. And I think that's such, when you talk about partnering with HR as a hiring manager to do that, self-reflection and that work first, and then talk to HR about, Hey, listen, and even HR can help you think through that too, but what do you actually need on your team at this point?
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Because you're right, you could have needed someone on your team that looked different two years previous because you didn't have time. it was maybe a smaller team and you needed people with a ton of experience. And then when you have people with the time experience, some of you could hire someone who's a little more junior cuz they could train this person.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And so it's always so different. And you're right, it's all about alignment and that's where the hiring manager really has to think about. What kind of, team makeup and diversity on my team do I need, and I mean diversity in every single aspect of diversity, experience, everything like industry, race, gender, everything you could think of.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: What do I need cuz I need a diverse talent portfolio. The same with financial. You want diverse financial portfolio. You want the same thing. You want a diverse talent portfolio. That is, you want different people. And what a lot of people do is what's also easier is I hire someone just like me cause I know you and it won't take me that long to manage you because you're just like me.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And that's when you see all these teams, you're like, oh my God, they're all the same person and they're probably at some point won't be as successful because there's no diversity of thought on that.
Danielle Cobo: I am in complete alignment with what you're saying. I'm thinking of this recruiter in my head that posts on LinkedIn and it's five years experience required.
Danielle Cobo: Right. And I've thought, wow, I've had people on my team who've had no experience, who have earned Rookie of the year. Right. That I've had experience are in Presence club. Yeah. It is very dependent on the particular role and diversity of thought and culture and background. Mm-hmm. And race and age and ethnicity and everything.
Danielle Cobo: Yep. Is gonna build a stronger team.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Hundred percent. I always say
Danielle Cobo: nature. I definitely don't wanna, however, anybody like me, I want everyone different. No,
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: no, no. And nature loves diversity. So things survive. Maybe I, use this example cuz I would do, I had a lot of biology classes with my son lately.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And what is nature? Love, diversity. And they teach kids this in sixth and seventh grade. That nature loves diversity. And I always told my son, so do corporations and humans and. This also makes things thrive in companies when you have diversity of thoughts and different types of people coming at a problem.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So it's amazing, and again, this is where HR can help and where a hiring manager can talk to HR about, Hey, listen, I'm over-indexed in this type of talent. I need this type of talent, so help me find it and help me figure it out. But it really does. It's just you can't think that it doesn't take a lot of.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: That's the overall message of this is you need to take time as a people manager and have your HR person help you manage some of that time, give you some good ideas so you can do your job more efficiently and you don't have to struggle so much, cuz that takes time too when you're struggling by yourself.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So talk to HR and they can help you and give you the gift of time. Hire the right
Danielle Cobo: people for the right role. Oh my gosh, please. And communicate early and often. Listen to your intuition. Yep. And have open dialogue, conversation. Yep. With hr.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Yep. Danielle, you could be an HR person. You said it better than I did, so there you
Danielle Cobo: go. I just did a synopsis of what you had shared. As you can tell, I've worked with HR a lot over the years and I found them to be very, helpful in many.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Yeah. No. When you have a good open, and I think one of the things I would say for hiring managers too is need to be open to hr.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Cuz sometimes it's just not hiring managers, but the people manager sometimes they're like, I'm not gonna talk to hr. It's stupid. And I've even interviewed with people and they've said, well, I'm not, hrs not that impressive. And I said, well, why don't you work with me and let's see if I can change your mind.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: And sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. but I think that openness to even working with HR is a first step too, cuz some people don't even want to. They're like, ah, they don't need to know my business, don't They usually wanna help you. So come on. So.
Danielle Cobo: Maybe that's a question for anybody that's hiring a manager is what has your relationship been with HR
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: in the class?
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: That would be so great. I've asked that when I've been interviewed because I always wanna know what I'm walking into and it's amazing. I've had hiring managers say to me, Oh, yeah. I'm not impressed with hr, so I don't even know what you're gonna do here. And I, I have more managers say I've, lately to me, I don't even know what good HR looks like, so they're open to it, but they don't even know what it looks like.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So like, I guess it's more than someone who just does our benefits. And I said it is, so that's, to me, like at least they want to learn about it. And there's some who just say, no, it's stupid. I don't wanna work with it. But yeah, it's a great to find out what the past experience, cuz that usually indicates how they're gonna interact with you, at least to start and what you have to overcome as an HR professional.
Danielle Cobo: Well, hopefully this episode will create and peak the curiosity of what a partnership with HR could potentially look like, because that's the area of opportunity in corporate. Mm-hmm. Is. How can managers partner with hr? I think that when we take the time to be curious, What other people's roles are, what their responsibilities are, what the hats that they wear, what are they doing that we don't always see?
Danielle Cobo: We have a greater appreciation. Mm-hmm. We value them more and we are able to uncover areas that we can collaborate together, so, mm-hmm. There's a lot of opportunities to partner with hr. It just us taking the time to be curious on what that partnership looks.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Yep. Time, time, time. That's the theme, right?
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: So have hr, talk to hr. Give HR some time. Oh my gosh, I sound like I'm doing a donation campaign or something. Give HR some time, but give HR some time. Try it and I bet you you'll receive, you'll be an ROI for the manager tenfold because you have a good relationship and then you have this good partner, thought partner you can talk to, and life might just be a little bit easier for you as a people manager.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: That's what we want in hr. So,
Danielle Cobo: well, thank you so much for joining the podcast today. Really appreciate your
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: expertise. Thank you. Thank you, Danielle. It was so much
Danielle Cobo: fun. Well, have a good day.
Dr. Keri Ohlrich: Thank you.