The Truth About Perfectionism: How To Finally Overcome It with Hope Timberlake

Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies

Danielle Cobo: How often do you find yourself writing and then rewriting. Maybe you're practicing difficult conversations in your head, you might feel like you're not accomplishing what you think you should be. you might be suffering from perfectionism and today's guest is hope Timberlake. She is a speaker trainer and author of her new book.

Danielle Cobo: Speak up. Dammit. How to quiet your fears, Polish your presence, and shape your voice. She focuses on persuasive communication, ex executive presence and elevating the voices and visibility of women and those unprecedented in leadership. Underrepresented hope earned her bachelor's degree from duke university and completed a master's degree at the university of California and Berkeley.

Danielle Cobo: She lives in San Francisco bay area with her husband, teenage children and dogs. Thank you so much for joining us today. Hope. Thank 

Hope Timberlake: you, Danielle. I'm so excited to be here. 

Danielle Cobo: you and I met at the national speaker association and you told me a little about your book and I was immediately intrigued because quite honestly, I do suffer from perfectionism.

Danielle Cobo: It's something that I've been battling for a really long time, and I'm really excited to hear the tips that you've got to share with us today on how to overcome perfectionism. Before we begin. Tell us a little bit about your career journey. How did you get into where you're at today to being a published author and specializing on this topic?

Hope Timberlake: Yeah, it has not been a straight route, like a lot of your guests and you, uh, it's been a little bit circuitous, but I knew I wanted to do work women's health and right outta college, or my first official job after waitressing was working at the hospital in San with breast cancer doctors.

Hope Timberlake: talk about perfectionism. If you wanna be a doctor, I mean, you, you know, too, Danielle, the, the whole medical field, there's a lot of perfectionism in that field. And what I was working on was, doctors, how they communicate to patients and often what they would do is they'd wanna get it exactly.

Hope Timberlake: Right. So they want to give the exact. Percentage or the exact research or all the details, everything perfectly buttoned up that they wanna tell the patient, but forgetting that the patient's going through a really emotional experience. So. The doctor is saying it's 91.2% chance that you can do this. and the amount of, therapy you need is this number of milliliters and this many frequency and just throwing numbers stupid at them was not meeting their needs.

Hope Timberlake: And it was my first awareness in addition to my own childhood and duke, there are plenty of perfectionists of watching where someone who is focused on perfectionism was actually. Not meeting the needs of their audience. It was making it worse. it was, it was a good wake up call.

Danielle Cobo: And I would say in, a medical setting, I almost might want perfectionism a little bit. Sure. When they are. Performing a particular procedure on me. I also acknowledge that when you're explaining something very technical and very traumatic during a trying time, it's not so much about being perfect on the stats, but it's more or less the feelings that we're experiencing at that time.

Hope Timberlake: You're exactly right. we're thrilled that our doctors are perfectionist, but we want them to communicate in a way that's human mm-hmm . 

Danielle Cobo: now I know that I've battled perfectionism most of my life and it's come from this need of wanting to prove myself. Sometimes mm-hmm when we find ourselves in perfectionism, it can be debilitating and it can prevent us from accomplishing the things that we wanna accomplish.

Danielle Cobo: So, yes. Tell us a little bit about the different situations when people might find themselves in perfection. 

Hope Timberlake: Yeah, you're exactly right. It's ironic. Like the more we're trying to control something, the less likely we are to actually meet our objective. So I see perfectionism arise in distinct situations.

Hope Timberlake: One where we are new to something. So we're new and it feels scary. And by new it could be something that we have done a long time, but we still feel new or we feel like we haven't mastered it. Maybe that's the better way to put it. we are feeling like, okay, we've got the imposter syndrome, they're expecting me to something.

Hope Timberlake: And I don't know this as well as someone else. And so we're, getting to that place where we try to control our, um, our perfectionist streak comes. And the other one is when we are genuinely more junior in the room or newer to the situation. then we feel like it's compare and despair.

Hope Timberlake: It's that idea of like, they know it all. who am I again, imposter creeps out and trying to be able to control our environment. Feels like the way or control how we, move forward feels the right strategy, but it always backfires. And even if it doesn't backfire the first time and the problem is we can sometimes get away with it.

Hope Timberlake: We can perfectionist about it and we do it. Right. And then we can be validated like, oh, that went really well, but it takes a toll. if we're going to go to that effort of perfecting everything before we do it, we're going to burn out where our relationships can suffer. Uh, there's just a lot of, health problems can, um, come up.

Hope Timberlake: So there's so many issues with, consistent perfectionism. 

Danielle Cobo: I find that perfectionism, when I reflect back at the time that I was leading a team for a fortune 500 company. And when I would often see perfectionism come up as the most is with new hires. And you're talking about when something is new to somebody, and even though they can come with years of experience, they find themselves in the, well, I don't know everything.

Danielle Cobo: I have to know every. Before I respond to that question or yes, provide that answer. Or before I speak up on the next conference call, I need to be here longer. And I remember reassuring some of them and saying you were hired for a reason. You may not know the products or this particular company, but there's skillsets that you have that I hired you for, that are transferable that we get to then learn from you.

Danielle Cobo: Yes. So 10 years does not always. correlate with being an expert. It's what is your background, your experience, what you've gone through and maybe. Questions. Sometimes we get in a rut where we keep doing the same things over and over again. And I loved it when new fresh set of eyes would come to our team and they would start to ask questions and I'm going well, that's what we've always done, but that's a great question.

Danielle Cobo: Why are we still doing it that way? So exactly. if you're listening right now and you are new to your role, to a team, to an organization, know that you bring value. We want you to speak up. We wanna hear your ideas. Put aside that perfectionism, because all that's doing is, is procrastinating.

Danielle Cobo: You getting that time to get to know your team, your manager, and share the valuable insight as to why you were hired. 

Hope Timberlake: It's so true. Daniel, one of the things, especially with women is we have good student habits. So we're really, really good at following directions at executing and doing our homework and doing all the things.

Hope Timberlake: And what I'd like to say is that students belong in the classroom, not the boardroom. Because what happens in school, how we're graded in school is different than how we're graded in our career and in life. So we gotta pivot. We gotta pivot from being like, okay, I checked all, what is it?

Hope Timberlake: Dotted all the I and crossed all the T's because that works in school. But like you said, if you want to be visible, if you want to have a good career, you need share your idea. Even if not the most seasoned or the, the longest veteran in the room, if you're just someone who is a really good idea or a different perspective, or asks that important question, like your story, you just told, and 

Danielle Cobo: sometimes a way of asking a question while adding value is.

Danielle Cobo: Bringing into the conversation. would, what would it look like if we tried things this way, you're providing your idea, but you're positioning it in a question that sometimes feels a little more subtle. and that might be one way of doing it. 

Hope Timberlake: I love that. You're absolutely right. 

Danielle Cobo: you talk about.

Danielle Cobo: Getting graded in school and versus being graded in the boardroom. And it is very different. and when it comes to perfectionism, there's two things that happen with perfection. It's procrastination in disguise. That's not serving us. It's not serving the company we work for because then we're so focused on getting everything perfect. what we see as imperfect. Maybe somebody else is perfect. 

Hope Timberlake: Exactly 

Danielle Cobo: exactly. And that, and that's what we forget too. 

Hope Timberlake: Yeah. the, worst situation Danielle happens, which I see a lot where someone's optimizing for perfection and they come the meeting the people meeting want take a different direction. So now they've spent hours or days or weeks of sleepless nights and preparation, and they think they have something perfect. It's not the direction in which the team wants to go. So now you're like, oh my gosh, what was all for?

Danielle Cobo: Yeah. and the other thing that happens too with when you get so focused on perfect. You lose out on the creativity. Yes. And you lose out on learning of failure. I, I say failure is a good thing. I spent so much time focusing on perfecting certain things in my business, which now looking back a year later, I don't even use half the stuff that I originally created because my business is pivoted a little bit And yet I spent hours in sleepless nights. And like you said, the stress and the anxiety around that. it's either procrastination or it's preventing us from failing, which can be really good cuz we can learn from that 

Hope Timberlake: failure. Totally. Absolutely. 

Hope Timberlake: Insert ad you being an expert on this subject?

Danielle Cobo: Yes. What are some strategies that you can share with our audience? about how to combat perfection? 

Hope Timberlake: Okay. I've got a lot, but I'll share three and I want listeners to be able to do something immediately. So the first thing is identify your script. This is the, little refrain that's in the back of your head.

Hope Timberlake: Whenever you're doing something new or you're in an environment where you're uncomfortable, what is that little voice telling you? And so it could be like, I'm not good enough. Who am I that no one wants to hear from me? Whatever that script is saying, identify it. And we're gonna flip it. So we're going to flip your script to the total opposite.

Hope Timberlake: It's an aspirational view of a new script. And I have a worksheet that I'm happy that if your listeners, if anyone wants to reach out to me, maybe in the show notes, you can put my email or, um, they can link in, or Instagramy show notes. Mm-hmm perfect. So there's a worksheet. That's great for flipping your script and it's just moving from that negative refrain to that aspirational, um, mantra of like, this is your powerful self.

Hope Timberlake: So it's really, really cool. It's like two pages of questions and, answers that get you to a place where you're feeling really. So the first is flip your script. The second one is move or remove the target. the target is what I call that thing. That goal, you have that goal of like, I'm gonna say the right thing in this meeting, or I'm going to get praise.

Hope Timberlake: I'm gonna get at a girl the end of that call, or everyone's gonna look at me like, oh my gosh, she is so smart. whatever that target is, move or remove it all Al. So you could move it and say, instead of like, oh, um, everyone's gonna think I'm the smartest of the room. It might be like, okay, everyone's gonna be happy that I contributed.

Hope Timberlake: Or remove it all together and just say, I don't really care. There's no outcome as much as you and I, Danielle are so into intentionality in this case it's around today. I'm just gonna share my thoughts and whatever the outcome is. No big deal. I am gonna be divorced from the outcome. I'm gonna be emotional Teflon and just be totally fine with whatever happens.

Hope Timberlake: So moving or removing the target is the second one. And the third one, they're all hard, but the third one is really hard for those of us who are kind of control freaks, which go hand in hand with perfectionism is diving in. And it's really similar to what you're talking about, Danielle, about when we make mistakes we learn, but tell you.

Hope Timberlake: As a recovering, not recovered, recovering perfectionist, making mistakes feels like the hardest thing in the world to do. We don't want to make mistakes. Like we're meant to be perfect. So diving in means just jumping in without doing all the work you think you need to do. without leaving behind those good student habits, leaving behind all the behaviors you've done before and just jumping in.

Hope Timberlake: There's some really, really powerful research around when you do first of all, more often than not, you actually do meet that goal. You set because you didn't overthink it. You just did it. And you just intuitively met them. Use of the room. And the other thing is when it does flop, it's never as bad as it feels.

Hope Timberlake: Other perspective is never as bad as it feels to you. And that's how we build this immunity. We keep building this muscle of, okay, you need to fail a certain number of times. You need to be embarrassed, a certain number of times to build some version of toughness so that you can take on these harder challenges and you can be more visible and you can your career.

Danielle Cobo: That is great advice. it, there is a correlation between control and perfectionism. And when I think of the people that. Finally release control and dive into that uncomfortable zone. That's when you learn the most, it's when you grow the most and it's when you accomplish the most, I resisted back so much on starting my business.

Danielle Cobo: Yes. Everyone kept telling me, you need to do career consulting. You need to do this. And I said, no, no, no, because I was caught in that perfectionism, like, I'm gonna fail. There's no way I could do this. And every time that I just leaned in and I just kind of let go of that perfectionism, my business grew more than I would've ever imagined that I'm.

Danielle Cobo: Today. I mean, corporate seems so long ago. yes. And we're just like you accomplishing things of being an author and, accomplishing things we never even imagined were possible. Yes. But just leaning in. 

Hope Timberlake: Yeah. And executive right. Daniel you've experienced it. I've experienced it. And one thing that your listeners maybe resonate with is if anyone out there plays any kind of sports, like if you are playing tennis or golf or rowing, or any kind of sports where you're holding onto something, when you grip, even when you grip really hard, Or yoga, anything that you're doing when you're really tense and you're gripping really hard, and you're trying to control the racket or control the, or, or control the by candles.

Hope Timberlake: You are going to do worse. You're more likely to fall. You're more likely to get hurt, but if you can have that light grip on those different sports things, you're going to do so much better. And. Hard's a really hard thing for us perfectionist to, to, take that lesson and really do it. But like you said, the second we let go a little bit.

Hope Timberlake: We wind up growing our business and meeting all of our goals without even realizing. 

Danielle Cobo: I wanna go back to when we talked about. New people on a team. Yes. Because a lot of times what happens when somebody is new to a team, they get caught up in that perfectionism. Well, I should know this, or I don't wanna appear, like, I don't know what I'm doing.

Danielle Cobo: Right. And then what happens is that perfectionism sometimes paralyzes them and they don't ask for help. then you don't advance in the areas that you want to. And so if, if you are new to a team to enroll to whatever it is that you're doing, anything that you're new to ask for, help, people want to 

Hope Timberlake: help.

Hope Timberlake: Yeah, yeah. for help. The other thing too, Danielle is sometimes you could vet it out. You could say, like, I have this idea of how we could do things differently. And let me just ask one person, like, what do you think? Do you think that that's question I could bring up? if I, if I ask the question this way, do you think that they would be responsive?

Hope Timberlake: So there's so much that we think that we had to do it on our own. And like you said, ask for help from one person from your manager, from your team, It is, that is key, especially when you're. 

Danielle Cobo: And if you're feeling a little timid, cuz I like what you brought up about. Offering something in addition to the question.

Danielle Cobo: So if you're feeling a little timid and you wanna use also a way of showing that you do have some ideas, anytime that you ask for help say, Hey, you know what I had this particular question. I had this challenge that came up. I was thinking about approaching it. X Y Z way. What are your thoughts on this?

Danielle Cobo: So you're coming with the solution, but you're still asking a question and giving yourself that opportunity for some feedback, for some coaching, for some advice, whatever that is. 

Hope Timberlake: Exactly. Exactly. I would be so happy. Your listeners should reach out you when they do this, because I'll bet you, they will be so happy at their results.

Danielle Cobo: thank you. what are three things as a thunderer is rolling in my house, living in Florida. Uh, it's always good. We've been in a, a heat wave, so we've needed the rain. I'm welcoming it, but before lightning cuts us off, what are three things you wanna leave? Our, listeners. 

Hope Timberlake: Okay, so I'll go in reverse order, dive in.

Hope Timberlake: Don't even think dive. And even if you flop, you will build resilience. The second one is move or remove your target. That goal that you've put in your head, move it or get rid of it. And the third one is flip your script. That's that little voice in your head. We're gonna flip it to the opposite and I'm happy to send you the worksheet for that.

Hope Timberlake: Yes. 

Danielle Cobo: For those of you listening out there, I'll include a link and the show notes as well as her bio and LinkedIn profile, and then a link to her book. Yes. Dammit. Because I definitely invite you to go pick that up. You can either listen to it as an audible, or you can go ahead and read it. So thanks so much for joining us today.

Danielle Cobo: One more 

Hope Timberlake: thing, Danielle, I wanted to tell that your listeners, that if they tag us, if they share this episode on LinkedIn or Instagram and they tag. You and tag me so on Instagram, I'm hope Timberlake my name and on LinkedIn. It's hope Timberlake as well. So if they tag us, will, they will enter a raffle for a free book.

Hope Timberlake: So please, share away. And I'm happy. I'm pretty generous with sending the books. So you tag there's a decent chance. You're gonna get one. 

Danielle Cobo: Yes. So for those of you listeners out there share this episode tag hope and I in it, and you can enter to win her book for free and learn additional tools on how to speak up, combat that perfectionism and be an influential leader in your life.

Danielle Cobo: So thank you so much for joining. 

Hope Timberlake: Great. Thanks Danielle.