Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Danielle Cobo: Are you ready to discover practical tips for effective communication and conflict resolution in the workplace? Today's guest is Darlene Hawley, and she works with individuals within organizations to strengthen communication in the workplace.
Danielle Cobo: Darlene, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today. What led me to, contacting you was this expertise in Authenticity. And before we jump into our conversation, please share with our listeners a little bit about where you started, where you're at today in your career
Darlene Hawley: journey. Yeah. Thank you Danielle, so much for having me here.
I'm thrilled to be here and yeah, my story goes back, I feel like so long I've. Been an entrepreneur doing business coaching one-on-one with what I call service-based entrepreneurs who are looking to start their businesses and really get a strong foundation going so they can build consistent income in their business.
And then I also work with corporations where I go in and teach communication trainings. working mostly on like the internal conversations they're having with inside their teams as well as helping them with external pieces, whether it's getting ready for big presentations or if they are doing sales conversations.
So they wanna be able to have a higher close rate within, inside the organization. I come in and. Lead them through fun role plays I love to start it with easy, fun, simple ways that get us up on our feet and get us embodied in the communication, and then slowly build it from there so they're able to have those harder conversations and really, get more traction in their business or be able to have that conversation with employee or their team member who maybe there's, they're bumping heads a little bit and things feel a little bit rough in the communication department, but how do we.
Be more playful, say things in a succinct way that really can call people to take action. And it doesn't feel like we're nagging or being too hard on each other and really, find that way where it's a fun conversation and we can learn both from each other versus, the spouse who's like upset because the dirty socks are on the ground for like the 13th hundredth time.
And like, how do we have those conversations without it being conflict?
Danielle Cobo: Well, two things. It always amazes me how my husband can pack for a year long deployment in duffle bags and have everything precisely packaged and rolled up into his duffle bags. But for some reason, just like you said, socks always seem to be all over the bathroom.
They're laundries hanging on the laundry basket, not in it. So I can relate to that a lot. and then you say the role playing. Coming from 20 years of medical sales experience, I can immediately feel that like roleplaying, it's like that dreaded word. and I distinctly remember my team would roll their eyes and we would be doing roleplaying, but I truly believe there's a lot of value in it because when you can have those, especially in a sales environment, when you're able to role play and practice and,and do it internally, it just provides you better.
the skillsets to go and have that communication out with your customers and be concise and clear and kind of have already talked through maybe some of the questions that they're going to ask.
Darlene Hawley: remember when I worked back in retail management prior to starting my business, like role play felt icky because it was usually you were just thrown into it.
You were supposed to have this like perfect pitch for what you're gonna say when you get out of the sales floor. And it was just always awkward, like there was no prep for it. And that's one of the things that I really pride myself in my business is helping like do it in like fun, playful, easy ways to get started so that we can.
Step into it with more improvy, it's more fun and light and easy. And then once we get it embodied, we can step into like those harder conversations. You know, whether, if we're talking to a client because we wanna be able to, you know, increase our sales for our department, that can feel like a big jump sometimes.
Like, you want me to get up and role play and you want me to do it this perfect way? But when we practice saying things out loud, And we practice with other people and we do it different ways and try different spins. Like it just starts to get a life of its own and it's just easier. But so often, I know for myself, when I think back, I would role play in my head.
I would practice conversations or I would maybe make some bullet points for what I would wanna say, and then I would think about it and like have the conversation internally. But then when I went to speak it out loud, It never came out the way that I wanted it to. I wasn't making the impact that I needed to in that moment.
It felt awkward. Maybe there was my tone of voice or the way I said it. Didn't come off right. And now I know if I take a step back and think to myself, okay, I need to have a conversation with this person. We need to talk about this, situation. I can go to them and be like, Hey Danielle, I'd love to have a conversation with you about X, Y, and Z.
Are you free tomorrow at 10 o'clock so we can talk, let's meet for coffee. Andthen it gives me a chance to really hone in on and practice what I wanna say and think about what I wanna say. In a, careful setting. And it also gives you a chance to be like, oh, Darlene needs to talk to me about this thing.
I think, maybe she's coming from this angle, you know, how do I wanna handle it? What am I gonna say? And so we come into a conversation where we're both prepped and prepared and we've had a chance to, I like to call it like walking and talking. I walk around my living room or my kitchen sometimes just practicing, whether it's a speech or if it's a conversation I need to have.
I've done some role play with it. It feels more comfortable. And so when I go to say, have the conversation, it doesn't feel like it's the first time I've ever said it and I'm even taken back by the words that I've said.
Danielle Cobo: What do you think are some of the biggest challenges? When it comes to communication in the workplace, when you're talking about some conflict resolution, crucial conversations, I know there's a lot of people, I also refer to it as like courageous conversations.
What do you feel like some of the biggest challenges that people have in the workplace when it comes to communication?
Darlene Hawley: Yeah. There's a lot of different things that I hear on a daily basis, but one of the biggest. Pieces I feel like comes up is that inner voice, the inner dialogue that we have internally within ourself, whether it's imposter syndrome or the confidence piece of how we're showing up and how we're.
Letting people see us like that authentic piece. Like are we showing up and being authentic and are we having too many, what I call stories in our head I don't know about you, but sometimes I start to play stories in my head before I've even had a conversation with somebody, or I've dug it a little bit deeper into what's coming up for myself in those moments.
And I built this big story up and. Nine out of 10 times when I go back and look at it, I, don't even play out the way that I envisioned it. I make it into this like huge big mountain of a problem and it's really just a little mohi and we like, Step through it really easily.
And so I think oftentimes inside organizations, we are afraid to go have those conversations because we're afraid somebody's gonna, you jump down our throat, we're gonna get fired, we're gonna push people away, we're gonna have people get upset. And we don't like conflict. Most of us don't enjoy conflict.
I'm a hundred percent in that category. I'm the last person that wants to have conflict. I'm a people pleaser by nature. But I've learned over the years that if I slow things down and I give myself a chance to like, take a deep breath, relax my body, and maybe sometimes it's, moving my body, doing some jumping jacks, moving that energy, I can go into the conversation and not feel.
Like the stress that's coming from it. And we can have like a clear dialogue. And I think oftentimes in organizations, we just don't trust our own voice. We don't trust that we're gonna be able to have that conversation in a safe way where there's security in it without upsetting other people. And so a lot of times when I come in and work with teams, it's like, how do we start those communication lines so that we create a, safe environment so we can speak up and use our voice?
And sometimes it's even saying, Hey, there's other people inside the organization we're not hearing from. I wanna make sure we're having, a level playing field where I want everyone to be able to have the microphone or to have, say so in a meeting and be able to speak up. And so when we create that safe space as leaders, or even if we're just a part of a team watching out for our coworkers and our colleagues, and we're giving that opportunity for us all to speak up, we can be ourselves.
We take away some of that stress of. Getting it right. We don't have to get it right every single time. Like we're all a work in progress. Sometimes we're gonna mess up, sometimes we're gonna put our foot in our mouth. It's how we respond from there. need. We need to create safe places so we can grow and learn together.
And if we do it wrong the first time, we work with each other and we find the right solution and we find solutions not as more problems.
Danielle Cobo: there's two points that resonated with me of what you said, and that's the stories that we create in our head. So often we'll receive an email or a text message and it says, Hey, can we talk tomorrow at 10:00 AM?
And it could come from a manager, it could come from a customer, and depending on the relationship, we could just have these stories of. Possibilities of what could happen that make be completely different than the reality of what they want the conversation to be. Yeah. I recently experienced, I was, with a friend and we're out shopping and she received a text message from a client and it says, Hey, can you talk tomorrow?
Like I have a question for you. it triggered something inside her where she started to think about, oh, what is this client gonna say? Did she not think that our last conversation was good? Like the stories that were created ended up kind of, affecting just her outlook for the rest of the day.
I, I just immediately saw this, facial expressions, her body language of being, this is so much fun and I'm hanging out with my friend and we're going shopping to just, she sat down and she started to create stories of what might be happening, and I'm talking her through it. And then when I found out what the conversation was, it was actually the customer going to her for advice.
So it was completely opposite of what the story she was creating in her head. So how, often do we experience that? We'll get a text message, we'll get an email, and it's so brief. I like what you said was, If you are gonna be sending a communication to somebody, Hey, Do you have time tomorrow at 10:00 AM to talk about X, Y, Z?
So it, kind of removes that ambiguity of what that conversation could possibly be. I know that there's a time where one of my, team members, I received a customer complaint from this individual and I just forwarded it to her and said, Hey, do you have a minute to talk? I just wanted to see how can I support you in rebuilding this relationship with this particular customer?
And it helped navigate that conversation a little bit better because it was more along the lines of, how can I support you? and she was able to read through the email ahead of time and kind of just, Formulate her own thoughts before jumping on the phone as well.
Darlene Hawley: Yeah. I think it, serves us all when we give a little bit of context to what we're doing because I don't know what the D is with our minds, but we can go to that negative place and we're like, oh my gosh, I got a text with my client.
They're gonna fire me. Like I must have upset them. They're gonna tell me they don't wanna work with me anymore. And oh my gosh, am I gonna feed my kids and like, put a roof, like we go down that,hole so quickly and so easily. And like you said, like oftentimes it's like, Hey, I just had a question, or I just wanted to like see what you're doing next week because I wanted to get together for a barbecue and like, and yet we've told this whole story that isn't even.
So I think it, serves us really well when we can. better at communicating and even just saying like, I wanna get together with you and here's what I'd like to talk about. I just wanna get together and have some fun and catch up. Or, Hey, I've got something going on at home and I need someone to bounce some ideas off of.
Or, Hey, I don't think our friendship's working out. I'd like to talk about that. Even like sometimes that's, I've had conversations like that where I'm like, this isn't working. And when we. Leave it too vague, especially when we think of being like in the workplace, and it can feel scary if you're a boss or somebody on your team wants to talk to you.
Like for whatever reason we go to that place of scarcity, our mindset just goes there. So how do we alleviate some of those pieces and. I think one of the best ways we can lead by example is starting that practice of saying like, Hey, I'd we have a meeting next week. even if we just think about all the meetings we have, whether we're entrepreneurs or we're working inside of organizations, we take a lot of calls, a lot of meetings, and sometimes we don't even know what they're about.
And if we can just give a little bit of heads up, like, Hey, I wanna talk to you about these things, we can come into it prepared and not have that mental drain that holds us down and makes us feel, like, whoa is me. Or what did I do? Or how do I handle this conversation if I don't even know where we're going with it?
Danielle Cobo: And I also wanna add to that is, as you said, our brains kind of go naturally to the negative. That's just the way that sometimes we are wired. And instead of thinking about what could possibly go wrong with a conversation, Thinking about what could possibly go right with the conversation and just that simple shift.
And I don't wanna say mindset cause I know that sounds very woo woo cuz everyone's talking mindset right now. But just that mental shift of thinking. Instead of what could possibly go wrong and think about all the negative things that could be wrong, let's think about what could go right by approaching this conversation and even just approaching it in the sense of there's been time.
I've always been kind of conflict avoidance. I don't. Like to have these conversations either cuz I don't, but with the intention of like, I never wanna hurt somebody's feelings or compromise the relationship. And what I've learned over the years is even just sometimes leading with that, I know initially until I really developed the skills to have some of these crucial conversations, can I share something with you and can I share that?
No, these conversations don't come easy to me. So if I fumble on my words or I say the wrong thing, that's probably not the intention. It's just that I'm learning the skillset of how to have these conversations, and at the end of the conversation, what I would like to happen is X, Y, Z. And maybe it looks like I'm having this difficult conversation that maybe a customer's had a complaint about them.
And we kind of gotta talk about a few things. But ultimately saying, going into this, conversation, at the end of it, I wanna help you succeed. I wanna help you rebuild this relationship with this customer. So when you talk about authenticity, even just saying these conversations are difficult and I may fumble on my words like that in itself
is authenticity.
Darlene Hawley: Absolutely. And I work a lot with a lot of like HR leaders, talent and development, and they have a lot of these hard conversations in their roles with, getting a team member up to speed to where they needed to be inside the organization.
like, they're having those conversations to help them grow as a team and to develop and. It can feel hard. It's not easy to come in and say these things made me think too, like going back to retail management, I had so many conversations where I was like evaluating a team member after watching them on the sales floor.
I was HR training development operations, and so it was part of my job was to sit,back and watch like, Hey, you did this amazing, we need to improve on this, but keep going. You're doing awesome. Like it was almost that sandwich. feedback type of thing where it was like, let's start with something really positive.
Give 'em some, love, and then find that one things they were doing wrong and then talk to them about that. And then like give 'em another big, like love fest at the end so they feel happy go-lucky. And we like sandwich that, negative stuff in the middle and we almost glaze over it. Like we're not really hitting on it because we're too focused on making them feel good.
But if we can come into a conversation and say, Hey, I feel. like X, Y, z I. feel like you're not seeing me. I feel like you're not listening to the things that I'm bringing to our conversations during the meeting. Not saying you don't listen to me, you never hear me.
I. Pointing the finger at them, but seeing, this is how I feel. This is what's coming up for me in this moment. I'd love to discuss it and see, you know, where you're coming from in this place. And that shifts the conversation as well because so often we point our fingers and when we use the word you, it automatically puts up like this defensive brick wall in between us.
And now we're at like a standoff. Where if we just sit back and say, this is how I'm feeling and this is what I'm struggling with and this is what I'm thinking. I've got a couple ideas for some things that we can do to improve this. And you come to the table not with more problems, but you're sharing your heart, you're being authentic and true to who you are, and then you're also bringing some evolution to the table for where you can go.
That changes the whole entire dynamic from, defensive and the places it can go from there.
Danielle Cobo: Yes, a hundred percent. The minute you say you, it's like that wall goes up, it's defensive. They're just trying to guard themselves. one of the teachings that I learned in one of the leadership trainings, it was a six month leadership training that I took.
And it was my experience of you or my observations, or when I had customer complaints about a particular rep, it was the customer's perception. it is about my experience, my observations, whether I'm right or wrong, or the customer's perception. It is not a finger pointing. And I think that a lot of people, especially when.
stepping into leadership positions for the first time, one of the most challenging aspects of a leadership position is these types of conversations. You have somebody on your team who might not be performing, you've gotta put 'em on a performance improvement plan, how do you put them on a performance improvement plan and talk about the things, the aspects of the role that they're not meeting the expectations on.
But make it where they feel supported and we're putting a plan together to get them to where they need to be to succeed versus, here's all the things that you're doing wrong and we're about to fire you. And I've seen performance improvement plans go two different ways. remember I had one team member where she was on a performance improvement plan.
But win done well, I mean, she wasn't meeting her goals, but then that next quarter and the quarter after that, I mean she killed it. She was crushing her goals in sales, but it was being able to have like using that. As an opening As an opening conversation and a vulnerable conversation to say, Hey, here's what's not meeting the expectations, but that does not define you.
And here's, let's build a plan and let me support you and what are your biggest challenges and let's navigate through this together and walk along side by side with you.
Darlene Hawley: you have to have those candid conversations like they're not always easy, especially as leaders, if we're leading teams and we're.
whether we have a team of one or we have a team of a hundred, like we have to have those harder candid conversations so we can help them improve and give them some clarity so they can have the confidence to really step up and seewhere they're a little bit deficient or they need a little bit more training.
And sometimes it's on the leaders. Like oftentimes we blame, our team members for not being up to speed. But when we look back at it, a lot of the leaders that I work with, they have some work they need to do as well to make sure they're getting the team up to the place that they need 'em to be for that standard.
And if we can work with the leaders and then also come in and do team trainings with the whole entire team while working with that leader, like the whole team rises together. What's that saying? the rising tide fumble together. I'm not good at metaphors. I don't know why I always try to use 'em, but when we all come together and we're all working for for the same objective and the same goal, we can really rise together.
And that's what we wanna do as leaders. We're not trying to make ourselves look better. like, when our team looks good, that makes us look good. It's not about making you as the leader in the organization like you're. so mighty and powerful, but when your team rises up and lifts you up and supports you, like, that's when you can really.
change the trajectory of where you're going and also get your team promoted, worked up with you. And that's, I think, what we wanna do as leaders. Like, so we don't like that old, model of like, this is who I am and I'm so amazing. and my team members, just helping me get there, but there's nothing special about them.
Like, no. the team members that you're working with, like they're there to support you and to help you, and you're there to help support and encourage them. How do we like bring that together to the surface and not have it to where like there's this big gap where I'm the boss and you're just on my team.
Danielle Cobo: I love what you said about what I heard you say was this reflection. And if there's somebody on your team that may not be meeting the expectations of the roles and the responsibility, instead of pointing the finger and saying, well, you are not doing it, it's also looking, you know that saying where they say, the minute you point your finger at somebody else, there's three fingers pointed backing you back.
So if somebody's not meeting the expectation, there's also an opportunity to look in the mirror and say, Well, did I set this person up for success? What can I do to help this person get to where they need to succeed? Because it is not all that individual. It is a partnership when it comes to the leader and the, team member.
And there's a lot of people that I have seen that have really struggled in their role, and then all of a sudden they have a new manager and they're, crushing it. So it is a good, what I heard you say that resonates is, the reflection in looking in the mirror too, that, is important as well.
Darlene Hawley: that leadership runs deep through your team. And so if you can step up and help support them, like the more that you're there to support them and encourage them and give them the tools that they need so they can grow and develop, the better it is for you. And And so often I go into and work with, a team and an organization, and there's that gap.
The employees don't feel like they can talk to them, to the leader. The leader doesn't feel like. They're getting any traction with their team. And when we come in and, start having those conversations and like close that gap and make 'em feel seen and heard, they start to shine. They start to show up and be a team, and then the whole entire department starts doing amazing.
They're hitting their goals, they're having more fun at work. It doesn't feel like a job anymore where. Regretting going in and like they just have to go in and clock in and do their stuff, and like, they can't wait to leave. There's a, community that starts to build together. They start to build their confidence as a team, and it impacts every single person in that whole entire team where oftentimes you have one person doesn't feel like they're part of the team, it can drag 'em down.
How do we get the teams to come together and really play and have fun and enjoy the work that they're doing? it's passion and it's exciting and they can come to work and they can say like, Hey, I'm having a really rough day, cuz this thing's happening at home. Or they can also, not feel like they have to like hide that and where they're trying to like put on this smiley, fake face when they're at work.
I I think we can all feel that. You can tell when someone's ingenuine and they're. Not showing up the way they want to versus when they feel connected to you. They feel like they have somebody they can confide in, they can share what's going on with, and still get their done and do the things that need to get done.
Danielle Cobo: And that's exactly what a dream job is. A dream job is when you go to work. You have purpose, you have passion. You enjoy what you do. You, I mean, I'm not gonna say that you're gonna love every single day. There's always challenges and pitfalls that are with and any organization and role, but that right there, When I think of a dream job, the dream job is when you enjoy going to work, when you feel like there's a sense of purpose and fulfillment, and you enjoy the people that you're working with no matter what the exact roles or responsibilities.
I also think of that dream job is, are you in alignment with what Your strengths are what you enjoy doing. That is the dream job so Well, I thoroughly appreciate you joining the podcast and our conversation and the advice that you give on having these authentic conversations that can be sometimes difficult to have.
Is there any other advice that you wanna leave with our listeners?
Darlene Hawley: Yeah, just. Keep showing up as yourself. I think the biggest thing that I see from leaders is we worry too much about what other people think about us. And we're trying to put, like, we're wearing this mask mask all day and it feels exhausting. And by the time we get home from our day and we're with our, the people we we love the most with our family, oftentimes we take it out on them.
And I think as, leaders, if we can show up as ourselves at work. And really have fun with it it and be more more playful and more joyful. It's going to stream in every single area of our lives. it's going to make our home life easier. It's going to make our team more excited to be together, find ways to have fun.
Play more though I was at a company recently and we were talking about work and home balance, and I don't believe really in finding that balance. I remember when I left retail management before I started my business, I envisioned like this perfect teeter-totter where work life was gonna be amazing and perfect, and everything was gonna be working great and then everything at home was gonna be perfect and great.
And I never found That teeter-totter ever balanced out. So I started calling it harmony, like we're gonna have days, we're gonna, what I call ebb and flow. Every day's gonna be a little bit different. We have to give ourself grace, give our team members grace, and know that we're not just clocking in at work for nine to five, and then we're leaving our personal life at home and vice versa.
Like how do we show up and know that we're looking for this harmony? Like we're gonna have some days that we're gonna focus more on our team and our jobs and the things that we're doing on, and then other days family's gonna happen. And how do we see that? Especially I think if we learned anything through the pandemic, like finding that harmony to be able to take, Our family life and our work life and really blend those things in really well.
that allows people to show up as themselves, that allows them to be true and authentic to who they truly are, and that impacts every single thing they touch, that ripple effect that goes out into the world. That's what we want. It's beautiful. It helps the legacy of our lives. It helps the generations.
You know, the things that have happened in the past and how we make those changes, and we start showing up the way that. We really wanna be and just be you. Like, have fun with it and use your voice. Speak up, stand out, make an impact, and do things that you love every single day.
Danielle Cobo: Okay. I don't think there's any other way to just leave our listeners with a boost of inspiration.
I've got goosebumps after listening to that. Thank you. I just truly believe that that is some beautiful advice. Speak up, stand in your presence, the work-life harmony. just very, very inspiring. So thank you so much for joining.
Darlene Hawley: Yeah, thank you Danielle for, for having me. It was great to see you.