Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Danielle Cobo: Communication is the key to a collaborative team environment. Yet, what is it about communication that makes some leaders influential and others not? In this podcast episode, we dive into teamwork and how leaders willing to show. Vulnerability can inspire and motivate their teams to create winning results.
Our guest is President and founder of Talent Boost, Claire Chandler. Claire brings over 25 years of experience in people
Danielle Cobo: leadership and human resources. She helps teams work together more effectively in less time with less cultural resistance to accelerate their business growth.
Hi, Claire. Thank you for joining our podcast today.
Claire Chandler: Thanks, Danielle. It's so great to be here.
Danielle Cobo: Well, you have had a very successful career in corporate and in hr. Will you share with our listeners where you started and what led to where you're at today?
Claire: Sure. and thanks again for having me. So I am a self-professed corporate and cancer survivor.
So I'll, foreshadow for you a little bit of the story, but I spent the bulk of my career in corporate America. started out not in hr. I actually started out in communications, focused primarily on marketing and branding. and then found my way to hr, as I always say through the side.
what I mean by that is I was working in customer relations at the time and had an opportunity to join our HR organization, to head up the training and development discipline. And I fell in love with all things talent management. So, taking individual contributors on up to executive leaders through a journey where they could be more aligned.
what their strengths were, what they enjoyed doing, having a more authentic presence throughout their career. Again, whether that's an individual contributor all the way up the line. and so I worked, in HR for several years, in corporate. And that culminated in, becoming vice president of human resources for our, largest division of an environmental company.
So very rewarding, very diverse career, and it's very fortunate to have the experience.
Danielle Cobo: And throughout your career, before we jumped on, we were talking about kind of the most influential leaders in our lives and some of the characteristics that we saw as inspiring, and sometimes the managers that didn't necessarily leave the best impression on us, so, Have you noticed, when it comes to influential leaders, what have you noticed to make a great impact on those around us?
Claire: So what immediately comes to mind for me is the best c e o I ever worked for. And during the course of my corporate career, I had the good fortune of, working for some really great leaders. And to your point, I worked for and with and around. Not so great leaders that I knew the difference. And, your corporate audience can certainly relate to this as you forge your career path, you were exposed to some great inspirational people that you wanna follow, but you also learn as much from, if not more, from those who you don't feel do it.
It provides, I think, a stark relief for you, in terms of the characteristics you wanna emulate in those you wanna avoid. so I'll say first about my most favorite c e o. this was a guy and I'll give him a shout out. His name was Tony Harding. he was the c e o of, My company and I spent about 15 years there and he overlapped with me for a few years.
And this was a guy who came in very, very experienced. This was not his first c e o role. In fact, it was the last one before he then, joined our board and then ultimately retired. and this was a guy who was extremely polished when he needed to be, but he was also so person. That everything that he did was infused with his very unique personality.
A very quirky sense of humor. he often told jokes that perhaps were less PC than he probably should have told. But it was part of what we loved about him was that he had no perceived filter. Now, having said that, I said perceived because I'm sure through experience he learned how to hone the, appearance of new filter.
But not only was he extremely personable and owned his unique personality, he also had this way of, being very followable. Not just because he was just fun to be around, but also because he made the complex simple. So one of the very first things he did when he joined our company, was to go on a listening tour and not just listen to the executives in the board.
But he went around the country and he met with groups of employees and he wanted to learn from them what was on their minds, what were they struggling with, what were they proud of in terms of coming to work every day? And he came back from that after the first 90 days or so with a very simple vision for the company.
And he boiled it down to, I think it was three pillars at the time. and he made it so simple. And anything, so many companies overcomplicate their mission statement or what they're gonna be about. And he made it so simple and so magnetic that any single person in the organization, whether they were a C-suite executive or a union frontline worker, could tell you what the three most important things were to.
And I just always found that to be such a winning combination. He made the complex simple and he made his unique, genuine personality come through in everything he did.
Danielle Cobo: And how many of us, when we look at the companies that we work for, very seldom do people actually know the mission statements of the organization or the values of the organization.
And sometimes the key strategic initiatives or the key performance initiatives are often interchangeable. But I love what you said about. A listening tour. One of the chapters that I wrote in my book talks about the importance of listening to employees in all ranks. And often when I was a manager, it was sometimes my newest employees.
That added the greatest value because they were willing to ask questions that sometimes, other people didn't as well as they had a new and fresh perspective on sometimes how other organizations or industries worked. So I always valued sometimes the. Fresh perspectives of the new employees, and then of course the more tenures employees which have been able to share what worked, what hasn't worked, and then combining the two together and possibly thinking about advisory boards or fireside chats.
There's a variety of ways to do that listening tour, but it's so important for leaders to take a step back and truly ask the questions and listen. I
Claire: love that reflection and I agree. as I said, Tony, had been a c e o several times in his career, so he could have easily come in, taken over the reins and said, I already have all the experience I need.
This is what we're going to do as a company and start changing things. And I love the fact that he was so experienced that he let wisdom lead the. He didn't let his experience dictate what other people should follow. He said, I know from deep personal experience that people support what they helped to create, and so I'm gonna go out and hear from them.
And he was very intentional and very outspoken about spending those first 90 days or so, not changing anything and just listening. And I see too often in my work with corporate clients, especially those who are. Post merger or post-acquisition. when they bring in new leadership, which typically they do too often, some of the executives make this mistake of saying, we need to forge a new path, a new value set, a new culture, and, put our stake in the ground of what we're going to believe in and what they fail to do in a lot of cases, not with.
Is ignore the past, is ignore the great things about the heritage organizations or the legacy cultures, or the institutional knowledge that the people already bring to the table. Okay, maybe it's not going to fit perfectly into the new mold you're forging, but shouldn't you ask them what was great, what they wanna keep, what they're proud of?
Danielle Cobo: And also, what's not working. Yeah. Taking the time to be vulnerable and open up the conversations. I always just say it's a start, stop, continue. What are the things we should start doing? What should we stop doing as an organization and what could we continue to do? And to take that a step further is, what are some of the resources that you need to be successful and to sit back and listen?
at the end of the day, your employees are the ones that are executing the key strategic initiatives. So we need to know what's important to them and what tools and resources that we can provide them for them to be successful.
Claire: And we also have to create an environment where employees working side by.
Are and comfortable and almost challenged to share amongst themselves. I was facilitating leadership retreat not too long ago, in an organization that is in a post-merger environment, and they're still trying to get their footing, So it was literally a room of senior level leaders that came from either one of the heritage organizations or were relatively new hires.
And throughout the course of that, There was sort of this, I don't wanna say tension, but there was sort of this, for me, I had the luxury of, looking from the outside in and there was a, kind of a rising star, relatively new hire who was expressing some, frustration with.
Some of the things that she's been tasked to do, which is to, create new, programs and, things like that. And as she was saying that in the room, cuz part of my job as a facilitator is to create that environment where they can, speak freely and be vulnerable and not be judged for that, et cetera.
And as she was expressing this sort of frustration about where to start, there were two other people in the room who were from the legacy companies saying, we have templates. We have frameworks for that. We've done that for years and this was successful. And what I found interesting was this was the first time that they had had that conversation across the room from each other to say, you don't have to start from a blank page.
And we really sort of opened up that conversation to say, we're not gonna, solve that problem today, but this is what it's all about, is to have those types of conversations where somebody can. Not stupid to be completely vulnerable in a space other than in a leadership retreat where a third party facilitator is forcing the conversation, but where also the people from the legacy organizations are valued and sought after to say, maybe I don't have to start from step one.
And it was interesting because by the end of the day, that person, that new hire said for the first time, since I've joined this company, I don't feel like I'm. And it was so telling to me because we're in a remote slash hybrid working world right now, and so maybe there hadn't been this sort of, orchestrated opportunity for her to share, what she was tasked with achieving or her frustrations with trying to get that done in that kind of a forum.
But I'm, hopeful that it opened a pathway for them to do that more constructively and.
Danielle Cobo: You said a point that I wanna, bring back to and speak to, and you talked about a safe environment. And when I see environments, it's important that when we're creating this space for this open dialogue to happen amongst either different divisions within an organization or a leadership team in the employees, it's creating a psychologically safe environment where people can feel like they can express.
Their concerns, their frustrations without the fear of losing their job or their reputation to be compromised, or people to perceive them as differently. And it's important that when leaders are approaching this type environment, that their employees, that they're taking the time to listen to them, that their feelings are valid.
Whether you agree with them or not, you gotta acknowledge what they're saying and how they feel because there is a reality to how they feel. Even if you may not agree with it, take the time to explore, ask some clarifying questions, take some time to ask questions. So really get in, a sales technique that I use in leadership.
The what else? When I was in sales, I would always ask a customer if they came back with an ejection. Okay. What else? What else? What else? Oftentimes the price would be very surface level, and it wasn't until the third. What else? That I actually got to the core of what? Their objection. Is, and that's the same approach that I had take in leadership is asking the what else questions to really getting down to the core.
And then from there I it's like the layer technique not would be respond. what I heard you say is respond by being very clear on what the expectations are, what the key strategic initiatives are, so that everybody's on the same page. And when you were working for that organization because of.
Influential leader that you had, everybody knew what those initiatives were because they made them crystal clear is what it sounded like. Yeah.
Claire: And, that's another area where a lot of less experienced leaders make a misstep. They overcomplicate what should be simpler? Because, think back to the first essays you wrote in high school or in college, and you really started to expand your vocabulary through your schooling, and you thought it was more impressive to use bigger words.
Than just having a simple message. I know. I'm guilty of that. I was an English major, so believe me, I could, tell you stories about how I overcomplicated vocabulary in my attempt to look more important. And I think a lot of companies, make that same mistake with their mission statements, with their strategic plans, with setting performance expectations because they think if it's too simple, people will think it is simplistic and they're going to look elsewhere.
It's been my experience that the simpler you can make it for people, the clearer they can see a connection between what they are contributing and why that matters to the bigger picture. That's how you deepen engagement. That's how you strengthen cultures, and that's how you create an environment where people can be authentic and vulnerable and truly free to do what fuels them and what fires them up in ways that are going to move the needle on the shared.
Danielle Cobo: I love how you said, keeping it simple with the vocabulary that we use. I remember when I was in journalism course back in the day in college, many, many years ago, I remember my journalism class. They said that most newspapers, again, this goes to show you , right? When I was in college, most newspapers will write in a sixth grade reading level, and I know some people that.
Speak in a very expanded vocabulary and they try to use these, complex words and or large words instead of using the common day language. And as people don't want to be perceived as stupid or unintelligent or unsmart, and so therefore they're too scared to ask the question. So sometimes if we use an expanded vocabulary,
Now, I'm not saying dumb it down too much, but keep it, as you said, simple enough where the language is more commonly used than trying to make it too complicated for people.
Claire: Yeah. And I, think that's another key here, that, the goal of true, authentic, vulnerable leadership is not to seem important.
It's to be underst. It does mean no good if I'm the c e o of a company, if you find me to be important, but you don't have the first clue what it is I'm asking you to do, so strive to be understood. That's gonna make you followable, not your status, not the shade of mahogany wood paneling on your, door, or what model Tesla you're driving.
Are you clear? Are you followable? Are you someone that people. truly understand a connection with, because you're being real
Danielle Cobo: Well, you've spoken to one of the most influential leaders in your life. Let's talk about possibly a manager that maybe wasn't your favorite,
Claire: but also influential. Right. So it's, a key word that you use because I think, as we were talking about before we jumped on the recording, we learn, I think just as much from leaders.
We don't want to. As those that we do. And so I was sharing a story, and I'll repeat it here briefly. one year when I was working in corporate. I was walking back to my office probably from the lady's room when my boss stopped me. And this was not Tony, this was someone else. And he stopped me and he literally said, you need to tone down your walk.
And I looked at him kind of quizzically, like, what? And he said, your walk, he said, it's too, bouncy, it's too happy. And people are gonna start to wonder if you're up to something. Like if you know something they don't huh, good tip. Thanks so much. Gonna go back to my office.
Didn't heed his advice, but it was, not a one-off kind of direction from him. it was so emblematic. of cultures and of leaders within corporate cultures who get it wrong. One of my biggest pet peeves is just about every corporate organization I've ever come across advertises for employees who have an entrepreneurial spirit.
And that's wonderful and that sounds great, and it's very attractive. And oh, that means I'm gonna have the freedom to do my job the way I wanna do it, where I wanna do it in ways that, motivate me and align with my talents. And what do we do every single. We hire people because we promise them a culture where entrepreneurial spirit will be rewarded and then we penalize them if they don't conform.
And so that very brief exchange in the hallway on my way back to my office, was so emblematic of that kind of mismatch. And here's the thing, if your company is promising you a culture and a brand that they do not in fact deliver after you have committed to invest yourself in that. Don't turn around and wonder why you have an attrition problem.
Don't turn around and wonder why your people are not doing the right things when no one is looking. it'll get me on my soapbox. But again, that was one of the things that was very emblematic to me of, not overall cultures, but leaders who get it wrong.
Danielle Cobo: I chuckle at this one, for the mere fact that I too have a very, Specific walk, I would say.
And there have been times where people have commented and said, you definitely walk fast, or whatever comments they make in passing, and I will often respond, you're right, I walk with passion. And purpose. So I will always be the one that you can hear with the heels. Click me clacking down the hall, that Carrie Bradshaw moment where I'm walking down the hospital to go see Charlotte and her new baby, if any of them watches sex in the city.
but yeah, passion and purpose is how I will walk , and that's often the response that I give to people too. But yeah, you're right. it's not a matter of we've gotta
Claire: empower employees.
Danielle Cobo: To make decisions that are gonna benefit them in the organization. The more that we try to control people. as humans.
We don't like to be controlled. So the more that we try that the organizations and leaders try to control people and conform people. They're gonna be feeling out of alignment. and we kind of talked about this a little bit. I felt sometimes in corporate that I was living one life at home and one life and work because I couldn't be my true, authentic self because in the environment that I was in, I felt like I was being judged a lot.
And then it doesn't feel right. We kind of lose a sense of meaning and purpose in our career when we're not always in alignment.
So, anything else that you wanna add for our listeners before we jump off?
Claire: I just wanna kind of reflect back to you,on that point about decision making. I think that is also where. A lot of corporate cultures kind of go awry There is a lot of, managerial expert advice that says you should delegate decision making down to the most localized level possible.
And when you say that in a boardroom or you say that to an executive leadership team, they go, yes, of course that's what we should do. We should empower our employees. That's why we're here. and then they turn around and they micromanage everything and they question, decisions and they, take that.
Away. And what's interesting, kind of back to that story about, toning down your walk. I think part of the problem is, especially at the executive leadership level, with the exception of people like Tony Harding that I mentioned, most of them feel like they have to conform their walk, their style, their perceived level of confidence versus their true humility or fear or vulner.
in order to conform. And, you asked me from the top to sort of share a story of, an influential leader, from the positive side and, from maybe the not so positive side. And the most successful followable executive leaders I've ever seen are the ones who own their walk.
The ones who, say right up front. I don't have all the answers. That's why I'm gonna go around and listen to. I've been doing this for decades longer than some of the people who report to me have been alive. But it doesn't mean I can't learn something new. it's so important and it's,why a lot of corporate organizations struggle with achieving their longer term objectives with retaining the.
Talent, with, truly engaging the very highest levels of performance from their people because they don't wanna fully commit cuz they don't trust the leaders. If you don't show vulnerability and authenticity and own your own walk, you're not gonna build trust. And if your people don't trust you, they're not gonna achieve your.
Danielle Cobo: Absolutely powerful message. Well, thank you so much for joining the podcast. There is so many different takeaways that we can, kind of compact into this one episode. What I heard you say was, vulnerability leads to trust and a trust-based culture is one that thrives where employees filled, fulfilled.
They feel heard. Communication is an open door and also it's going to increase, productivity and retention. So thank you so much for joining. Really appreciate it.
Claire: Thank you. It was great to be here.