How to Earn Trust and Respect with Kathleen Booth

Danielle Cobo  0:05  
The dream job with Danielle Cobo podcast is designed to empower women to turn life's biggest challenges into their greatest strength. To address the confidence gap and why women often struggle with visibility. Guests, I talk about how to find your voice, create your seat at the table, and how to be an amazing ally to other women in the workplace. I am a career coach, keynote speaker, corporate trainer, military spouse, and mom to young twin boys. I have experienced as a fortune 500 company leader who guided a team to number one in the nation, having a thriving career and a balanced life is within every woman's reach. And the time is now. 

Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of dream job with Danielle Cobo. I am your host Danielle Cobo, and today's guest is Kathleen Booth. She is a senior vice president of marketing at trade swell, where she has an a mission to empower a new generation of digital marketplace brands. Prior to joining trades well. She led marketing at several b2b SaaS businesses and E commerce and cybersecurity spaces, and was the founder and CEO of a digital marketing agency where she advised hundreds of companies on go to market and digital marketing strategies. Outside of work, Kathleen is the host of the long running inbound success podcast, which I encourage you to check out, which features interviews with top performing marketers, and was named one of the top 50 b2b marketing influencers of 2021 by Top Rank. I am excited for you to be a guest on today's episode, you are a wealth of knowledge on marketing. And in addition to that you've had such a unique career journey that we've been able to talk about earlier before jumping on. So tell us a little bit, share with our audience a little bit about your career journey.

Kathleen Booth  2:00  
Oh, well, first, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm really honored that you asked me to come on. Boy, I have a really kind of strange career journey. You know, I am a marketer today, but I didn't start out in marketing, I actually went to school for political science. And I did two graduate degrees. I did a master's in international politics, but then the school I was at gave us the opportunity to do a second degree. And I sort of thought, Gosh, I don't know if this politics degree is gonna get me a job. So I did an MBA. And just because I was already there, and I love just school. And it was interesting. And so I came out of school with this MBA in marketing this master's in international politics. And I spent the first 10 years of my career really on the politics side. And specifically in international work, and I was doing international development consulting. I was specializing in water utility, public private partnerships, very, very particular area. And I was working with international aid organizations like the World Bank and the US Agency for International Development. And during that time, in my career, I got to travel to 54 different countries in the developing world. So it was a great thing to do when I was young and single. But when I decided to get married and settle down and have a family, it was really much tougher to pursue that career and travel internationally so much. And so that is when I switched into marketing. And with my husband, I started an agency and the rest, as they say, is history.

Danielle Cobo  3:29  
Well, so I have to ask, what is the favorite with the your favorite country that you've visited thus far?

Kathleen Booth  3:34  
Oh, my gosh, I get that question a lot. And it's like picking your favorite child. I don't know, like, they're all favorites for different reasons. And I'll give you like my top few, because I can't choose just one I would say the ones that really stand out in my head as amazing experiences were Egypt because I got to go to the pyramids and the Sphinx and like, it's just amazing, you know, an incredible experience. And then Nepal, I was able to go to Katmandu and you feel like you've stepped back in time, and that's amazing. And then, in Africa, I loved the country of Zambia, I spent a lot of time there. And I was able to go on safari and just, you know, it's all those experiences and the people in every single country I ever traveled to were unbelievable. So yeah, they were all great for different reasons.

Danielle Cobo  4:24  
And so that's not the traditional things that I hear often, you know, a lot of times I'll hear, Oh, Europe and Ireland and England, but really the places that you spoke to, what I see as the why that might be a favorite, favorite places to go to is you're immersing yourself in full culture and differences and seeing completely different areas in the country, compared to where what the U.S. is like. 

Kathleen Booth  4:51  
Very true, and that's totally accurate because I have been to Paris and London and I lived in Barcelona for a year and even even parts of South America, I mean, I love South America, Brazil and Argentina. But they're, they're more similar to the U.S. than some of the places I mentioned. And I think that the most amazing experiences we can have in this life are to go places that are as different as possible from our reality, because it just, not only do you does it open your mind, but it also kind of makes you realize, we're all more similar than we think we are. Even though on the surface, we look so different, you know, you could pass a family in a grass hut in in the middle of the African savanna, and they're still just parents and children, you know, doing what they do every day. And that realization was just so powerful. And to this day, I want to, you know, take my kids and go to all these places and have them experience it. Like, it's just an amazing thing.

Danielle Cobo  5:48  
Yes, I'm on the same page with you, I've been able to travel to some incredible places, and you really get to see life through different lenses and perspectives. And you have a very I, I would say that my appreciation for the things that I have is much deeper, just being some of the countries that I've been seeing some of the, the way that some people are living. And so it gives you really just a well rounded understanding of just the world.

Kathleen Booth  6:17  
Yeah absolutely, and it's funny, I was telling somebody the other day that we were talking about having children, right, and I know you have a lot of listeners who are women. And when I was pregnant with my son, we were talking about just how like sometimes it's exhausting, and it's tough. And I was saying how I just kept had this mantra in my head when I was pregnant and giving birth and raising my son, I was like, just remember, there are women in Africa who literally give birth with no help, no hospital, and then they go out the next day into the field and work like, my my heart is so different than anyone else's heart. So it gives you perspective, tremendous perspective.

Danielle Cobo  6:54  
One of the phrases that we would say at work is first world problems. Often when we're complaining if I can't find my cell phone charger, I don't know where my cell phone is, I don't know why my computer broke. And the reality is, these are all first world problems. This is the luxuries that we often have that a lot of other places in the world don't have. And so sometimes when you have that perspective, it's a great reminder to be in a place of gratitude. 

Kathleen Booth  7:20  
So true. 

Danielle Cobo  7:22  
Well, you have worked in a predominantly male industries. And I would imagine, not only did you work in male industries, you were very young, when you were working with government officials and traveling all over the world. Tell us a little bit about that experience, and how were you able to present yourself as a value while working in a male dominated industry?

Kathleen Booth  7:45  
Yeah, it was really interesting, because I mean, growing up, I was very shy. I'm still very introverted, which is more about like energy, and more so than shyness, but I grew up very shy as well. And I started, you know, living abroad. The year after I graduated from college, I lived in Spain for a year before I went to grad school. And I actually worked at a car manufacturing company there, and then came back worked full time while I was in grad school in Washington, DC, which is also a very male dominated area. But then when I started doing this international work, I was in my early 20s, I was going to the developing world, and in many of these countries, they're just culturally really different. And in some of them, they you know, they're not as used to women in the workplace, certainly not young single women traveling all over the world alone. And in many cases, there just isn't that natural respect that I think we enjoy to a much greater degree here in the U.S. And so, and a lot of times, I traveled alone, you know, and so I really had to, in order to be effective, I had to figure out a way to gain the respect of the people that I was interacting with. And I think for me, that happened in a couple of different ways. One was projecting confidence, kind of whether I really felt it or not, and you know, I always equate it, maybe this is a terrible analogy, but I always equate it to animals, like when you come upon a dog, dogs can tell if you're afraid of them, right. And if you're afraid of them, they react to you very differently than if you're confident and you're strong. And I honestly think it's the same thing with people. So I'm not calling people dogs, but it's the same, I think instinctive psychological thing where you can smell insecurity in somebody else. And so I I learned very quickly that I had to come in and I had to project confidence in the way I spoke and the way it presented myself and the way I carried myself, even if I didn't really feel it inside. And you know, I had done back in, in high school I had done a lot of acting and so funnily enough, I think I called upon that skill to almost pretend to be somebody I wasn't in those circumstances, but it worked. And, you know, and I think what I learned was that if you walk in, and you act as though you belong there, in most cases, people will treat you as though you belong there. And so I think that's, that's probably the biggest thing I took away. But then, you know, some of it was, and I hate to say this, but like dress the part dress, so almost like dress for the job, you want to have not the job you have. And I always hate saying that, because I think women are so judged for how we dress and I and I'm, and I do believe we should dress in whatever way makes us feel comfortable and is most authentic to ourselves. But for me, it was about dressing professionally, and showing up in you know, in presenting, presenting physically in a way that somebody who was much more senior than me would normally present. And then preparing. You know, I'm like I said, I'm a big introvert, I had to this day, I still have impostor syndrome. And it's funny, I almost don't know anyone who doesn't. We all deal with it differently. And in my case, it was I would compensate or channel my imposter syndrome into just being incredibly over prepared. And I just found that that helped quell my anxiety. If I spent a lot of time before meetings or before presentations, making sure I really had it down, then I could walk in and project that confidence. So that all seemed to help and and you know that that made me successful in that early part of my career, and I've carried it through. And now I work in marketing, which is a much more female industry. But what I think I do now is I have a lot of younger women and men who work for me who are just getting started, who maybe don't have the confidence. And so what I enjoy doing today is mentoring them and trying to show them that you don't have to be the world's greatest expert in everything, but you do need to project confidence and be prepared and that sort of thing.

Danielle Cobo  11:53  
We'll be right back to today's episode, there is one thing you can count on in sales, and that your quota will continue to increase as your business grows. Sales is tough, and salespeople are constantly looking for ways to be more successful. And it's no secret that having a well thought out business plan is key to success in sales. But it can be hard to know where to start, or how to quantify your results. Without a clear plan of action, you're likely to spin your wheels and not make much progress. To be successful, it's essential to have a process to help you focus on what's important and get measurable results. I've experienced success firsthand, learning for back to back President circle and lead a team to number one in the nation. Now my clients are achieving same success maxing out their comp plan and finishing at the top. With the support of a sales performance coach, you can achieve the same success too. We work together to transform self doubt, to confidence, analyze and quantify what has worked well in the past to accelerate those results. Set specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and time bound goals, then build a business strategy to exceed your goals. How would you feel if you were empowered with the tools to thrive and sales without sacrificing your personal life, I invite you to go to my website Daniellecobo.com, that's COBO, Daniellecobo.com and schedule your free career discovery session with me today. Now back to today's episode. 

I think about the day advice that often is given where if you run into a bear, and you're in order to combat a bear, I hope I never run into a bear but if you ever run into one, you act big and you act bigger than you are, and that's exactly what I'm hearing with the advice that you're giving is sometimes you do fake it until you make it. Sometimes you do lean into channeling in maybe that that superstar person out there. And until you really gain the confidence in yourself and I agree with you that when it comes to dressing the way that you want to feel. And it's always better to show up overdressed than underdressed. So the tips that you were giving are great advice when it really comes to standing in your presence being known that you are meant to be in that room, you're meant to have that seat at the table.

Kathleen Booth  14:29  
That's exactly right. It's about internalizing this feeling that you deserve to be there. But and I want to clarify like when I say fake it until you make it there's a very important distinction here which is what I'm not saying is pretend you know everything because there's that's that's different, right like, part of part of projecting incredible confidence is having the confidence to say you know what, I don't know the answer to that question, but I will get it for you. And recognizing that confident people don't feel like they have to lie, or make stuff up, it's an it's more attitudinal than it is that it has to do with like the, the substance of what you say to people, like, it's okay to admit you don't know things. And that is a sign of confidence and strength. Just like, you know, fake it till you make it doesn't mean that you can't admit that there are things you still have to learn. And, you know, I just had this conversation with the CEO of my company the other day, and I mean, I'm, I've been in this game a long time, but there's still things I have to learn. And I sat down with him when I first started my job, which was three months ago. And I said, Look, there's a lot of things I'm strong at, but there are a couple things where I know I still need to sharpen my skills. And I could really use your help and mentorship, like, you need to be able to say those things, too, and ask for help where you need it. But do it in a way where you are doing so confidently. I hope that makes sense.

Danielle Cobo  15:58  
No, it absolutely does. And one of the things that you had said when it comes to it's okay to not know the answer. And when that happens often when I was in sales, customers appreciated it, it's always better to say I don't know the answer. Can I get back to you tomorrow on it? Can I take the time to research to ensure that I'm coming in with the right answer that's going to support your question, versus just giving a surface level answer to it without really going into depth and knowing it. So I'd much rather have somebody admit they don't know the answer, and that they're going to take the time to research it, they're going to earn my trust a lot faster than somebody that just gives a surface level response just because they want to be seen that they know everything.

Kathleen Booth  16:42  
Yeah. And if you do give a surface level response, or if you make something up and it's wrong, you destroy your credibility. And so being honest about those things is incredibly important. Because, look, I mean advancement in your career, at the end of the day, it's all about being somebody who others feel they can trust. And before you can respect someone, you have to trust them. And so, you know that safeguarding that trust is I think of utmost importance and the building blocks of trust or honesty, you know, forthrightness, etc. And so it's really important to, to not make things up or exaggerate.

Danielle Cobo  17:20  
And also to take that a step further is, is when you do for some reason, if for any reason you do give the wrong answer. I mean, that's that's happened at times where maybe they forgot that, that things have changed that some of the rules or the laws or or some of the compliance guidelines have changed. And, and being able to just take accountability for that and saying, you know, what, I got that wrong, I misspoke to this is also another way of when taking accountability and being honest about it is another way of earning trust, as well. So when in taking that a step further, what you're what advice you're already giving. 

Kathleen Booth  17:56  
Totally and, and not not exaggerating your performance. This was another interesting conversation I had same CEO lately. And, you know, he was saying to me that, that he's a venture capitalist, and he's been in many board meetings, both as a member of the board and as the person reporting to the board. And he was talking about how you can always tell the difference between a really seasoned executive and one who's not because the the less seasoned executives tend to come in and try to present a rosy picture. And the seasoned ones are the ones who come in and say, yeah, those things are all going well, let's talk about the things that aren't going well, that I'm that I'm not doing well, and oh, by the way, here's what I'm doing to fix them. It's that he referred to it as like a very sober assessment. But you know, I would say it's, it goes once again, back to not being afraid to recognize the areas where you're not over performing, you know, where you have weaknesses, where you're, you know, where you maybe haven't met objectives or goals and being being candid about that, again, because it shows strength, and it shows confidence, to admit to those things. And, and if if someone else has to pull them out of you, or get you, you know, convinced you to admit to them, that that is again, it's it jeopardizes that feeling of trust, and therefore erodes respect.

Danielle Cobo  19:15  
And what you did by going directly to the CEO who had hired you, and come being very forthcoming and saying, These are my strengths. And I know, this is what I'm really good at. And these are some of the areas that I know I have some areas to grow and develop in and in utilizing that as a, a way to communicate, that you want a mentor and that you're worth investing in and that you have that growth mindset that you know the value of continuing to invest in your success in yourself so that you can continue develop on strengths.

Kathleen Booth  19:49  
Yeah, I'm a big fan of getting ahead of things. And so that I think that's part of it. And then, you know, the other conversation I had with him was, it was the first week on the job. I said, Hey, There are going to be times when you're upset with me. And there, I'm sure there's going to be something I screw up on at some point. And then there's going to be other times where we just fundamentally disagree on something. And I was like, That hasn't happened yet. And if you're upset with me, and I've screwed up, I'll own it, and we'll move forward. But if it's something we just don't agree on, how do you want me to handle that conversation? Like, do you want me to disagree? And in a group leadership team meeting, do you want me to pull you aside privately? Like, how should I navigate that conversation with you? It's a little bit like the concept of a prenuptial agreement where you should like, discuss how you're going to handle the tough things before the tough things happen, right? Because you're able to do it with a clear head. And so I'm a big believer in having all those conversations upfront and coming to a mutual sense of agreement over Look, these are going to be our, our, our rules of operation when this stuff happens.

Danielle Cobo  20:56  
Sounds like you take a very proactive approach when it comes to your development, you're creating your seat at the table, when it comes to having those open conversations. Sometimes those conversations are hard to navigate through. But like you said, when you're really ahead of it, that's when it's in the emotions aren't tied into it too as much. And that's an often we can get flustered and things along those lines. But getting that agreement right from the start is going to support you in navigating through those conversations. When they do come, they do come up.

Kathleen Booth  21:28  
Yeah, and you know, it's, it's an interesting point in my career, because I was the boss for 11 years, I owned my company for 11 years. And now I'm not. And so I think it's like me, both recognizing what I liked and appreciated as a person who managed other people. But also, it's me recognizing that, that I need to, to be very self aware that I now work for somebody else, and respect their modes of communication and get a sense of what that new landscape is so that I can navigate it properly. Because there are a lot of people who own their own business and then are not successful working for other people because they can't adjust their communication style, their style of work and decision making. And it's something that scared me a lot when I sold my business like I wasn't sure how I would handle that. And so I've worked really, really hard to try to try to get ahead of it and and set myself up for success.

Danielle Cobo  22:28  
So we've talked a lot it we've talked a lot this underlying theme when it comes to communication and using communication to earn trust, and value with your integrity. What are three things that you want to leave our audience with when it comes to using communication to earn trust, whether that's with your peers, your employees, customers?

Kathleen Booth  22:48  
Yeah, I think whenever I when I hire people, I have this document that I give them upfront. And it's it's called the guide to Kathleen, and it's like 15 pages long. And it's everything about me, it's my pet peeves. It's how I like to manage teams, it's how I like to communicate. So I think number one is don't expect people to read your mind, right? It's, it's give everyone a chance to successfully communicate with you by being as upfront and honest as you can be about yourself as a communicator and learning about them. So that's number one is don't expect people to read your minds. Number two, is, you know, commit to being very honest with other people. And I'm a big fan of Kim Scott's radical candor book. You know, it's about caring, deeply and confronting directly. And the whole premise behind the book is, you have to be honest, especially about the tough things, because that's the only fair thing to do for the other person. And you if you do it in the spirit of building up the relationship rather than tearing it down, you will both have come out better for it. And so, you know, I'm I'm, I'm extremely passionate about both myself. And as well as everyone I work with being really upfront and not holding things back not griping behind the scenes, you know, not being passive aggressive. So, don't expect others to read your mind. Be radically candor. And then the third is, you know, don't expect yourself to read other people's minds. And that goes back to me asking my boss like, if you you know, if you want to communicate successfully with others, take ownership of asking them upfront how they like to communicate. And there are different ways of doing that you can do it in a conversation or, you know, when I had my agency, we had everybody take a DISC assessment when they were hired, and we would actually all share each other's desks. And so you would know, you know, I'm a high D if I go into a meeting with somebody who's a high C, I have to approach it differently than I would with somebody who has an eye or an S and so you know, you have to find what works for you but it's great communication is about I'm really being honest, expecting honesty in return, and delivering the way you deliver things with with positive outcomes in mind and with the intention of building up a relationship.

Danielle Cobo  25:15  
Three very valuable tips on communication and how to use communication to earn to really understand and earn trust. Because trust is the core to everything. Without trust, it's really hard to have relationship and whether that's with your significant other with your peers, with your friends, and when that's broken, and not taking the necessary steps to repair it. That can be very challenging. And I really like what you're saying. And when I was in corporate and I was a manager, and what I now do with some of my coaching is very similar to that personality assessment. And how do you want to be managed in understanding what are your managers pet peeves is essential, is absolutely essential. I know, one of my pet peeves is accountability. And there were some people on my team that immediately took accountability for things and they had such a soft space in my heart, where I would do I would bend over backwards to support them. But the people that didn't take accountability, I often found myself going. Why I mean, we're gonna sit here for 20 minutes on the phone talking about all the excuses when really, if you just said I dropped the ball, yes, I would, I would spend the rest of these 18 minutes finding solutions for you. So it's really important to understand the pet peeves of the people that you work with.

Kathleen Booth  26:38  
Amen. And you mentioned trust, you know, it's funny, because I'm a marketer. And trust is also trust isn't just at the heart of good communication. It's actually at the heart of good marketing, you know, and I always say, like, everyone's in the same business, I don't care if you sell cell phones, cars, consulting services, what have you. We're all we're all selling trust, you are not going to buy from somebody if you don't trust them. And so it's the same principle in marketing and marketing communications, as it is an interpersonal communications and career communications like, it's life, right? It's just It's human. It's human psychology that we want to deal with people we trust.

Danielle Cobo  27:18  
100%. And well, thank you so much, Kathleen, for joining on today's episode, you provided so many pearls of wisdom on how to communicate and earn trust, and really how that supports whether you're reporting up to somebody, whether you're leading a business or whether you're leading a team. So thank you so much for joining.

Kathleen Booth  27:39  
Oh, this has been so much fun. Thanks for having me, Danielle. 

Danielle Cobo  27:42  
Well, thank you. So for those of you that are listening, I invite you to share this episode with your friends, your family, your peers, empower them with the tools to earn trust in all areas of their life. And also write a review and a comment. That's such a great way of expressing how you love this episode, how you love this episode and this podcast. So thank you so much and create an intentional day. Thank you for tuning in to today's episode. To receive your free career accelerator and crush your quota workbooks with actionable steps on how to accelerate your career. Go to Danielle cobo.com. To learn more about my services, including keynote speaking, corporate workshops and one on one coaching. I invite you to go to my website, Danielle cobo.com and schedule a call with me. And one last favor to ask. The best compliment is a review. Please take a quick minute to share on iTunes or Spotify why you enjoy tuning into the dream job within your Kobo podcast. Thanks for tuning in and create an intentional day.