Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Danielle Cobo: Have you ever been asked to participate in a project, attend a meeting and event, or. Even attend a birthday party, but just couldn't say no without feeling guilty. Perhaps you've had to provide constructive feedback or share concerns, but just couldn't articulate the right words to say without destroying the relationship.
Maybe you've received feedback and found yourself on the defense. The importance of communication in our everyday lives and in our relationships cannot be overstated. We've been told if you can't say anything, Then don't say it at all. In today's episode, our guest provides practical approaches and positive phrases for those times when you need to say something not so nice without destroying the relationship.
Today's guest is Cerita Maven. Who has been in her mission to inspire others to embrace positivity, even admit the challenges of our ever changing high tech times in her 20 plus years as an international speaker and communication expert. Cerita is a TEDx speaker and published author with her book, If you can say something nice.
What do you say and her newest book? Say What you mean in a nice way. I am so blessed to have Rita on today. I have personally had the opportunity to get to know her through the National Speaker Association, and thank you for joining
Sarita Maybin: us. Thank you, Danielle. So great to be here.
Danielle Cobo: Well, tell us a little bit about your career journey.
How did you become an expert on communi?
Sarita Maybin: Yes, Yes. Well, you know, much, many of my stories , many of it came from my stories working in higher education, which was my other career as a supervisor and working with staff and students. Uh, and then somewhere along the way, of course I ended up getting the degrees, uh, the psychology undergrad, the master's degree in counseling.
Um, but I really feel like that's just the backdrop. The real good stuff comes from the real life stories. So
Danielle Cobo: most of us have been in a situation where we've wanted to say something, but that guilt has kind of led us to say yes anyways. Maybe we've been asked, I said to go to event and or be involved in a special project and we, we want to say no.
We know our plates already full, but that guilt eats us inside. And so we say yes anyways. How can we set boundaries? And say no nicely without that guilty feeling.
Sarita Maybin: I know. Isn't that the worst thing you're kicking yourself? Why did I say it? Do that. You know, I think we've all been there where we're just like, what was I thinking when I agreed to this and said yes.
And then of course we get overrun because we've got so much to do and, and we really, uh, are kind of regretting it. But I always think there's three words that we can learn to use or three phrases. Um, When, if, and so, and when, if, and as soon as. So in other words, we can say yes, but set some boundaries. So I'd be happy to get that for you.
Uh, if you're willing to wait until the morning, um, you know, I'd be happy to do that when I get the paperwork and information from you. Or as soon as I'm finished with this project, I'll be, I'll be happy to get started on yours. So I always feel like if, when, and as soon as are three phrases that we can use to set those boundaries so we don't just get trampled from all the things we agree to.
Danielle Cobo: A way of saying yes while also setting those boundaries so that we're not overextending our. Yes, Which happens a lot, happens a lot. Now, we've also talked a little bit about constructive feedback, and there are times whether you are leading people or whether it's a peer tope interaction, or even maybe in our own personal relationships where there have been times where we've needed to provide some constructive feedback.
Maybe we've had to see kind of share something a little bit negative, but. What happens is, is the spiral interning in our brain of going, Well, what if I say the wrong thing? What if I hurt their feelings? What do I do? How do you have those difficult conversations while still maintaining a good working relationship?
Sarita Maybin: Yes, Yes. You know, I have a, a three step process I always recommend, and acronym is AIR a i r. Um, and A is awareness, you know, to realize maybe they don't mean to be, uh, bothering us or annoying us. You know, sometimes people don't even know that they're part of the problem. Have you ever noticed that sometimes the people who drive us crazy and get on our nerves, they have no idea they're doing that.
Uh, so I think, uh, just letting people know, Hey, maybe you're not aware that this is what I'm seeing. Uh, so to point it out, and I think giving them the benefit of the doubt is really part of that. Assuming that their intentions aren't negative, I think that helps with that, that awareness piece. And then the big one is, I, you know, what is the impact of their behavior?
So we're not saying you're a bad, mean person. But when you come late, the class customers have to wait. You know, Or when you yell and scream, it makes people defensive, you know? Or when you don't show up, we're left in the lurch. So whatever the impact is, the negative impact, uh, that's the eye. And then of course the request is what do you want?
Um, I have to juggle with that one cuz you know, often when I do my keynotes, I'll ask people to think about a situation that they wanna work on and I'll have them, uh, write down a situation. And then I'll have them look at that R, which is the request. And I always say, think about what do you want in your heart of hearts, that person to do differently?
And I had one gentleman say, Well, so you know, if I was honest, I would want them to never show up at work again. So I say, you know, short of the person, never darkening your doorway again. You know, what is your request? What do you want in your heart of hearts for them to do differently? So I think having that structure of making them aware, Letting them know the impact and then making a request, not a demand or dictating, but a request.
I feel like that three steps helps us kind of reign in that anxiety about confronting.
Danielle Cobo: There are so many times where either. The person lacks the self awareness of how their actions are impacting others, or it's our own tur, our own internal triggers that have either been created by somebody else or from our past, or it's just these triggers that we have that sometimes.
Spark up emotions where we get irritated by something. Yes. But it may not even be related specifically to them. It just might be a trigger for us. So what I'm hearing you say is assume the positive intent, the benefit of the doubt that maybe they don't even know. Yeah. Yeah. And then as you said, that request, I just went through this conversation with my husband, where my husband's very analytical.
He's a van, a very analytical type personality. And we often have conflicting schedules sometimes where we're balancing things. Um, and then also maybe there's times where I have night events, weekend events, just like he does, you know, with his, with his duties. And there's been times where I'll ask him like, Hey, can I have this event coming up?
Can we, can you watch the kids, these, these nights? And his analytical personality is, Well, what time? Why is it going on? Like, why are you doing a night event? That's obviously the questions he asked, and it took me a second to realize I get kind of triggered by that because I feel like every time he asked me, I say things like, Absolutely no problem.
Go do what you need to do. I'll take care of the boys, no problem. But his approach was more analytical. So as you said, it's not that his intentions were bad, it's his personality and my request to him. Hey, could you respond by saying, No problem? Can you give me the details? I would feel more supported.
Sarita Maybin: Yes.
Yes. And you know, and I think some people, a lot of people are kind of wanting to know, Well, why should I help? Or, you know, what's the reason for this? And, and I always, you know, for those of you who are, are, are watching and or listening and, and want to, uh, take a few notes, uh, I, I always love sharing phrases.
I'm a big fan of phrases and my favorite phrases in those kind of situations are, So that, and because, you know, so it would be, for me, it would be like, you know, would you be willing to keep an eye on the kids so that I can go do this important meeting? You know, or would you be willing to, I need you to do this because, you know, it's important that I'd be in such and such a place.
Um, so it's, it's kind of back to the, the old, uh, acronym we all heard, W I I F M. People wanna know what's in it for me. And I always love that acronym. It sounds like a radio station, wwi, but really it's kind of, uh, you know, what makes the world go around. People always wanna know, Well, why is this important or why should I do this?
And, and, uh, and I'm one of those people. I'm a why person? Know why, why do I need to do this? Or why is this important or why does it matter? And, and my husband, like, much like your husband sometimes will push back with a need for an explan. Um, not a long drawn out explanation, but just for me to explain, It's so bad I can do this, or it's because of that.
So that's a helpful, a helpful one for those who wanna know what is the backstory
Danielle Cobo: here. So I'm hearing what's in it for me. That, that because of the why behind it? Yeah. And it's the, the a r so that Yeah.
Sarita Maybin: Yeah. So that, I actually saw some research somewhere that when you send an email to someone, if you say, I need you to do da, da, da, and you put because, just because you put, because in the email they perk up and say, Oh, maybe I need to pay.
More attention and I thought that was fascinating, that it's so because, and, and you know, and I, I think as women we sometimes go into the whole tap dance and tell the whole long drawn out story. No, not that. It's just, I need your help because it will allow us to meet your deadline, or I need to get this information because it will expedite your payment.
So really in the end, it's also going back to them saying, Well, why do I care? So, you know, why should I do this? So, because, and the, so that, those are the two phrases that, uh, highlight, you know, why this is important for you to wanna cooperate with me. , people wanna know why,
Danielle Cobo: why, what's in it for them? Why do they, why if they're being asked to do that, what's the importance of me prioritizing this particular request versus mm-hmm.
versus another that's on their plate as well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we've talked about. How to say yes while setting boundaries. We've talked a little bit about how to provide some kind of constructive feedback. Now, what happens when you are on the receiving end of feedback? And I know that sometimes our initial reaction is that flight or fight.
I want to either flee the situation cuz it's completely uncomfortable or I'm ready to fight and my defense mechanism comes up, which is pretty common sometimes, depending on the feedback. How can we receive feedback without getting defensive?
Sarita Maybin: Oh, I love that question. I love that. You know, I got some advice years ago when I was a grad student.
One of my first mentors, uh, gave me this, uh, piece of advice, which has served me well. She says, when you get feedback, ask for more. And I was thinking to myself, that's the last thing I, I wanna do. Um, but what are my favorite signature stories that I tell when I'm doing my keynotes? And I'm not gonna go into the full blown story, but I literally have like a five minute signature story all about, uh, receiving feedback and how I learned to apply the ask for more strategy.
Um, but I talk about a time when, uh, I gave some feedback to, or I ask a colleague, uh, an employee actually, and a staff meeting. I ask him. What do you think we can do to improve the department? And, and he says, Well, you could be a better supervisor. And I remember getting really defensive. And then I remember that advice asked for more.
So when he said, Well, you could be a better supervisor, I said, Well, how do you mean? Can you be a little more specific? So that's an example of asking for more. And then he gave me some great suggestions that I would not have come up with, uh, if I had to just shut him down and said, How dare he say I could be a better supervisor?
So, um, ask for more. It looks like, can you be more specific? You know, can you gimme an example? Or maybe can, can you elaborate? So any, instead of going into the, Well, what happened was, you know, we wanna go into the explanation. Tap dance and, um, I actually read something. Um, I wanna, I wanna say that it was, um, uh, a book on negotiation.
And, uh, you may, may, you may know of, um, I can't remember his first name, Boss. It's his last name, a former hostage negotiator, and he's got a book, uh, called, um, uh, a book about negotiation. But anyway, in his book, he said something that was Ra rather startling. He says, You know, explaining is just a fancy word for argument.
And interesting. So we start saying, when someone says, Well, well, you know, you don't do this or you do that, and then we start trying to explain, well see, the reason I do this is, and because, and what happened was all of that really does not help. So I love that advice that I received all those years ago from my mentor where someone says something instead of starting explaining.
AKA arguing, Uh, just say, Oh, tell me more. Um, or Can you elaborate? Or, I like to say, How do you mean? Uh, can you be more specific? All of those phrases are ways of asking for more, which seems like the last thing we wanna do, but in the end, it actually illuminates the situation. So, so I have a whole long story about, uh, about that, how that served me well initially, and how it has served me, uh, going forward.
To, uh, respond to things that we don't wanna hear. Well, his
Danielle Cobo: comment about, you know, I'd like for you to be a better supervisor. That's a very vague comment, and the only way for us to improve in what we're doing is to have specific examples of maybe what we are doing wrong, what they would like to see differently.
A lot of the times I'll respond and say, Okay, well
Sarita Maybin: what would that look? . I love that. That's a perfect way of asking for more. What would that look like exactly. Mm-hmm. , you know, I had a woman tell me, um, one time she was in a, um, a performance review and the boss said, Well, you're not a good, you're not a team player.
And that is about as vague as it gets, you know, what exactly does that mean? And then of course she asked for more feedback and uh, found out. In fact, what she found out was he said, You sit in the staff meetings with closed body posture, the arms folded. And she says, I'm cold. The meeting rooms are cold, and that's why I sit like that.
So she got really unmarried negative feedback because he was perceiving her negatively, but in reality, she didn't have that negative intention at all. It was just cold. But you never find out those things if you don't ask for more. And I think if we get defensive when we get feedback, we won't ever get, As you say, that valuable input, the valuable inform.
Danielle Cobo: And one way that he could have shifted his approach on that conversation was when we're in team meetings and your arms are folded and crossed, the perception of the team is that you're not a team player, that you're not being involved. Right. And that would've opened up the conversation for her to then respond.
I can understand maybe why, that's the perception. Um, I'm just cold, so now I just know to bring a jacket, but that is not my intention. Right. It goes into perception versus intention.
Sarita Maybin: Exactly. Exactly. And you know, and in and in real life, we wish people would say things so eloquently, but in real life they just say, You're not a team player, or You're so mean, or you're nosy, or, you know, you're overbearing.
You know, pick a long list of accusations. People will just throw it out in a harsh way. And so we have to separate that harsh approach from, Okay, let me get to the bottom of, what are they trying to tell me? You know, what is the real nugget, uh, nugget of, uh, of useful feedback.
Danielle Cobo: As you said, what are the results?
What are the things, what are the changes that you want that person to make, to get to the outcome is what you're trying to strive for. Yes. In improving the leadership style or the engagement with team building. So what are three things that you wanna leave with our listeners that they can apply today?
Because you've shared a lot of pearls of wisdom here.
Sarita Maybin: Well, you know, I, I have a few little clips that I love to share, um, in my keynotes and, and one is, uh, that please and thank you are still the magic words. Um, I think anytime we wanna make a request, instead of saying, you know, do this or you better do this, to instead say, I need you to do this, please.
And so please, and thank you, are wonderful. Even in emails as well, when we're making requests, a lot of times we're emailing. So a please and thank you. I call that the kindness check. Um, so please, and thank you. You're still the magic words. Um, my mantra in life is what you mean mean what you say, but don't say It mean.
And, uh, that's, um, I really wanted that to be my book title, but it was way too long. . So, uh, and I think the other, and I think ask for more, which would be the last thought, which is when we get that feedback that just ask for more when we're on that receiving. Well, you've
Danielle Cobo: written two books, so share with our listeners your two books and what they can learn from each of their books and why they should get them and pick them up today, which I'll be including the link in the show notes for you, for you.
Yay.
Sarita Maybin: Okay. Well the, you know, you can see in the background my new book, which was my long, long overdue second book. Uh, my, I called it My Pandemic Project, um, to either write the book or. Bake bread, whichever would be more productive. So the book, the book project was, this was like the sequel to my first book, which is called If You Can't Say Something Nice, what Do You Say?
And that book has been out a good decade or so and both are available on Amazon. My first book, if you Can't Say Something Nice, what do you say the subtitle is? Practical Solutions for Working Together Better. So that's the real foundation. Uh, that has the, the air that I talked about is in that first book.
My signature top 10 positive communication phrases is in the, in the first book. And it's available on Amazon in Kindle. And also I narrated the audio book as well a few years back. So it's on Audible as well, the first book. Um, and the second book is the Sequel. Say What You mean in a Nice Way. Follows that up.
But it has a lot of examples that relate to online communication. Um, working together better In High Tech Times is the subtitle of the second book. And so that one has a lot of the fact that we communicate via email and every chapter has an example that is communicating online in addition to in person.
So it's kind of the updated version. And, um, that one I'll be narrating the audible. Um, that'll be in January of 2023. I'll be narrating that one for Audible. Uh, right now it's on Kindle and paperback on, on Amazon. So,
Danielle Cobo: so what I'm hearing is the first book, if those of you are. Tend to listen to books while in the car.
You can pick up her audible right now, get that one, uh, re listen to that one. And then coming in the next couple months, you'll have, you'll be able to follow that up with the sequel for the next book as well. And I'll include the show note. I'll include in the show notes, the links to both. Thank you so much for joining today.
I really appreciate it. There are some actual advice that you gave us on how we can say things nicely during difficult conversations so that we're not harming the relationships that we're in.