On bedding. On bedding. We're unbedding, baby. We're on a journey, baby. We're unbedding, baby. We're unbatting.
Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of unbatting. I'm Dana Pereira. And I'm Jessica Presley. Jess, I know that you aren't, like, super into football season, but we're in playoffs. Have you gotten into playoffs at all?
Well, you know, the Bills were in the playoffs. They so I had to watch them. They were for a time. They were for a time. Unfortunately, for my husband and anybody else who is Buffalo Bills fan, that did not procure
the outcome that they desired. It did not it did make Force great TV. It did. Though whenever Travis Kelsey's brother took off his shirt and jumped into the crowd.
Oh, did not see that.
It was a huge highlight. He wanted to enjoy the bills fans even though he was, like, rooting for the Chiefs. Right. He knew that the Bills fans were, like, tailgate warriors. Right.
Right. Bill's mafia.
That's right. So he wanted to enjoy like like, he was looking for a table
to go through. He wanted the whole experience.
He wanted the entire experience. And so he did that. It was a whole thing, with him taking off his shirt and jumping into the crowd and, like, everybody Taylor Swift was barely there because he did that. Like, the the attention went from Taylor Swift to Jason Kelsey.
Well, I mean, kudos to him because it takes a quite a bit to be able to remove the spotlight from Taylor Swift. I know that my kids are super happy to be watching football because they just might possibly get a glance at Taylor Swift through one of the outtakes. So, I'm impressed that he got all the attention on him.
He really, really did. And then the attention went back to Taylor Swift though because this week and I it's kinda funny. It goes against everything in my blood to root for the Ravens.
Oh, god. No. No. No. No.
No. And so this week, the Chiefs beat the Ravens to advance to that, to advance to the Super Bowl.
And Travis and Taylor were so cute. I did see her down on the field with him, like, afterwards.
It was adorable. And there's this tweet going around right now that is like it like, imagine the kind of person you have to be to watch this love story play out in front of you and be like, no. Fuck that. I don't like this.
I mean
yeah. I guess I don't know. It would be so uncomfortable for me as a person to have my whole, like, relationship play out and unfold and, like, have people be watching our interactions and judging them and coming up with their, like, ideas of, like, like, at one point, I saw them talking on the sideline, and I'm, like, what must it be like to have a conversation with your partner with, like, millions of people watching you?
And scrutinizing and trying to figure out what you're saying to the point where they have to cover their mouths when they're talking to each other, like,
smile and say something and laugh. You know, it's like when you're, dancing on your wedding day, you know everyone's watching you. And so, like terrifying. It's not like you're just dancing with your significant other. Like, everybody's what you're like, you throw your head back a little. You know, because the performance. Right? And so I wonder how much of it is a performance and how much of it is there, like, authentic love story? Like, we see just a snippet.
You know what? The way that you just presented that just conveys so nicely into our topic this week because a lot of people do have that performance. Mhmm. And, this week, we have an amazing guest.
I'm so excited for you guys to hear this episode This episode
was so mind blowing, eye opening, heart opening. Mhmm. So many things that I didn't think about even. And to have the conversation with you and with our guest, Adriana Abeyta. She is she has her company Soul Sessions that she does shadow work.
Yes. I mean, Dana and I just finished recording this episode, and so I feel like I'm still kind of like on high from it. Like, all of the impressions that she made on my heart and all of the moments that I had whenever we were talking are still, like, so fresh. And so I'm just excited for our listeners to kind of grow and learn alongside of us and kind of discover this idea of shadow work and the shadow in and of itself. And I don't know. I'm just it was just such a good, good episode. So good.
It was such a great episode, and I don't want you guys to get scared by the word shadow. It sounds scary. We mentioned this in the episode that I mean, it's just a bunch of sounds put together, and it says shadow. And it sounds scary, but, god, is it fucking important?
So important. And also, it sounds scary. And in my personal experience, it is a little scary.
Of course it is.
Uncovering these parts of ourselves. Yeah. You know, we're uncovering these parts of ourselves that we have devised so many strategies to keep this part of me comfortable or keep this part of me hidden or keep part of me, you know, masked. Uh-huh. And so it is a little scary to be vulnerable and to go inward and try to understand where some of these things come from or what our own personal projections are.
But, the end result, I think, is, like, so worth any of the fear stepping into it because the end result is, like, full self acceptance and integration of the shadow, which ultimately is self love.
And, and there's nothing to be afraid of when it comes to fully accepting and loving yourself. Absolutely. And she says it in the episode also, it's the duality without darkness. There's no light. Without light, there is no darkness. And so it is the acceptance of all of that. So with that, I hope you guys can really take this episode to heart the way that we did. And please enjoy Adriana Beta.
Yay.
Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Unbatting, and this week is particularly special. I don't know if you guys remember last week, but we did make a little mention like, oh, maybe we should talk about some shadow work. And it just so happens, we know a gal, and she's here to do just that. Welcome, Adriana Beta.
Hi. Thanks for having me.
So don't you actually start out by telling people all of the things that you love to do? I know that you are kind of a I don't wanna say a jack of all trades, but a jack of many trades.
Yeah. At least of the metaphysical trades. How about that? Okay. So a little bit about me, what I do, which I guess is what I'm currently doing, is I work in as an astrologer.
So I use astrology as a map or as a tool or an art to better understand the individual and their journey, to help people understand their own journey here, what they've come equipped to, to deal with life life circumstances, to understand the deeper meaning in their experiences. And then from that, I I really just work with people helping them, helping them along this crazy road of life.
It is a crazy road too. And you've actually done readings for myself and for Jess. Mhmm.
Yeah. I
think I met you a couple yeah, I think you kind of introduced me to shadow work then. Mhmm. Yeah, I think you kind of introduced me to shadow work then. Mhmm. So how long have you been, kind of delving into shadow work and the shadow in general?
Oh, that's that's a hard question to answer because there if I was to say, how how long have I been delving into it with curiosity and consciousness, that might be, you know, something more
along the
lines of I I don't know. I'd say probably the last 20 years or so. It it comes in tandem when you're understanding archetypes, and and it is an archetype itself. So I've studied a lot of, myth and a lot of Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell. I I'm the tarot cards and me are best friends.
So the shadow has always been something that I've been aware of. Now in terms of doing my own shadow work, that comes along with, you know, the responsibility of understanding the system. So, you know, I would say that I've been aware of it and practicing it, you know, ever since I knew about it because it's it's something you you kinda commit to the rest of your life.
Right.
You just you just hit something there for since you knew about it. Mhmm. So what is the shadow? What is the shadow work? We we have to get very to the to the bones of it
here. Yeah. That and it's so it's such a hard topic to really, capture with words. So I I wanna just frame it by saying that, you know, right now, shadow work is a really hot topic. It's it's really sexy. Everybody is throwing around the word shadow work. Mhmm. And so, you know, I'm I'm a Virgo, so I'm gonna stay. I'm gonna keep it close to, like, you know, the the purity of it. And in that, I you know, the shadow was coined by Carl Jung, and it is an archetype.
It's it's almost as if the shadow is the dark side of the ego. And so when I speak about the ego, it is the sense of self, it's the identity. It's not a it's not a bad thing. And the shadow is the counter to that. So in any movie, any myth, any story, there's always a good guy and a bad guy.
There's a Luke Skywalker, and there's a Darth Vader. There's a there's a Frodo, and, you know, there's, the Gollum. You know? There's there's always this duality of light and dark. And so the shadow is that darkness.
And and dark in the sense that it is perhaps nefarious, it it may hold what we call evil, and again, evil is just, it's a projection of of something that is unknown. But that shadow quality inherently is something that is unconscious. It's not something that we're aware of, which is why it's referred to as the dark side of the personality.
It seems that that word almost is, like, meant to be a little scary. Right? I mean, it's just a bunch of syllables and, that are pressed together to make a word. But for whatever reason, when somebody says shadow, it feels like, oh, that's that's scary.
Yeah. And and it that's great that you have that resonance with it because it is. And but, again, if we consider what is scary, often what is scary is what is unknown. Mhmm. What is unfamiliar to us?
And see, we live under the, the impression that we somehow have figured it out and that we're safe here in this world and in our life because we live in a house and we have a job and we've got money and all of these things. But really life is not safe. Life is really scary, and, you know, it's really hard, and it's really tragic in a lot of ways. And so the shadow is the compilation of of primal energy, you know, that of chaos. And so when we refer to the shadow in terms let's just say psychological terms, in terms of it being the the shadow of the ego.
The shadow is the parts of our self that is, a, it's unknown. It's it's we don't see it. It's unconscious. But, b, it it also becomes the repository. It becomes the place that we disown the parts of ourself that that don't work or we are ashamed of, or that we have been taught, or bad, or wrong.
Mhmm. It's also it's also the area that, you know, the the parts of us that have never gotten a chance to develop are are hiding out. Does that make sense? I can give you a an example, but I would I would love to hear what you think in that.
No. That does make sense. And to me, what's coming up whenever you're saying that is, like, okay. So a a lot of my understanding of the shadow is that, these are things that kind of come from our younger years, right, as we are developing our personality, the parts of us that maybe, weren't so celebrated, right, or the parts of us that we felt shameful or guilty for, or were made to feel that way. So my question then is, is the shadow ever evolving?
Is it like, as we're growing, as we're learning new things about us ourselves, as we're maybe having new insecurities, is the shadow evolving with us on that?
That's a great question. I I wanna say that the shadow is evolving to the extent that we continue to feed it. So in other words, you know, let's let's use a workable example and sort of work with you just said there. So as a child, we learned that there are certain behaviors that we exhibit. There are certain ways that we are that gain us love affection.
And love and affection are basically the nurturance, like, it's what we need to survive. And so then we have other qualities that don't gain that kind of recognition and may in fact gain some sort of judgment or may even be a part of the collective judgment. I wanna take a pause here and just do, like, a small tangent. The shadow exists in what is called the collective unconscious. So this is this is primarily why much of it is unconscious.
It's it's Freud's, you know, iceberg under the surface, so to speak. Mhmm. And so the shadow is both personal, my shadow. The shadow is also collective, my it's also it's it's also collective and universal in that all of human experience feeds this repository, this place of fear, and dread, and shame. So try, like, holding that for a moment.
Right? We're operating then. Our little fragile egos are operating in this giant soup of things that are, you know, part of our own, part of our families, and part of the collective on a whole. Now I say that to say go back to your question. Is it evolving? Yes. It's evolving to the extent that we continue to feed it. So let's say, for example, you know, look at the, political, landscape right now. And if you look at how there's there's always an an us and a them. Right?
There's division that feeds that feeds the shadow. Look at the political landscape that we've been in since, like, 2008. Right? And and who was our president, and and how big narcissism is, like, the buzzword now.
Oh, yeah.
Right? But these are all projections from our collective shadow. We are all narcissists when it comes down to it. On a whole, our society are are, you know, narcissistic little children that are entitled to everything. We have gotten really far away from our own balance.
Now I also wanna say to your question, is the shadow ever evolving? More importantly, our I would say our our quest with the shadow and shadow work is to integrate the shadow, is to make as much of that shadow conscious that we can become aware of it. And that's only the first step, but it is a step to bringing light to that darkness.
When do people start to recognize that there's a shadow? Like, how in their lives what what would you say to somebody that if they were to start working on their shadow, it would better their lives? Like, there's so much that goes into it, and most people aren't even aware that they have one.
Right.
Back to that narcissistic tendencies. Right? Like, it's like we're like, no. No. We're great. What are you talking about? Like, what would you say to people whenever it's, evolved around that?
Well, Dana, you you started to ask a really important point, and so you brought us to the next point. If the shadow is unconscious, how do you become aware of it?
Yes. Right.
You know, how do you know what you don't know? And so this is where, again, the shadow is this is an energy. It's not something that you're like, ah, there it is. But rather, this is where the, function of projection, this is another hot word that's often thrown around without understanding its use. Projection is the way in which we are able to see the things inside of ourselves.
So in other words, I'll give you an example. So let's say that I am really, really uncomfortable with, with anger. With anybody that's angry, I can't be around it. It just it's not something that I feel comfortable with. Like, it really gives me anxiety.
Mhmm.
So so in that, that it's it's a trigger. Right? Here's the trigger. I feel uncomfortable. It's weird. I don't wanna be around anybody that's angry. I'm calling people, like, angry bitches and hostile. Right? The judgment is happening. I'm externalizing my discomfort with anger.
So if I was working with somebody in shadow work, I would ask them to, what how do you feel about your own anger? Tell You know, what were you taught about anger? If it's a woman, what were you taught about being a woman and being angry? If they were African American, what were you taught about being a black man growing up with anger? Right? There's all these cultural conditions that we are imprisoned by. You you see what I'm saying? Mhmm.
Absolutely. Yeah. Whenever you're saying that earlier when you were speaking about, like, the different layers of the shadow, first it being with self and then it being with the family. I was thinking, gosh. Think of how many groups that we identify with, and if each one of those are projecting some sort of shadow as a collective. And then such a struggle. Right. It's layered and layered and layered and layered.
It is layered. And so we become aware of it by first being like, wait. Why is it that I I don't like this or this bothers me? We we ask ourselves to reflect upon that. And so it may be then that and these are some of the words that we use that let's say I've disowned my anger.
In other words, I'm never angry. I'm calm and I'm collective, but guess what? Every man that I'm ever with is like a raging alcoholic or a hostile or every boss that I ever had wants to dominate me and is constantly criticizing me. So Jung Jung was known to say that whatever we don't meet in our self, whatever we won't encounter and own in our self, we encounter outside of our self in the form of an enemy. And so this is why the this, you know, shadow work is so important is because it brings us back into this place of wholeness and self acceptance where we can own these parts.
It doesn't mean that we need to behave like narcissists. We might recognize our entitlement and have more equity and empathy and compassion, but that's a muscle that we have to build as a collective right now because we have moved so far away from it. So again, it doesn't, it doesn't relinquish people from responsibility of change and most importantly, this maturity because the shadow feeds in the places of ignorance. Oh,
I really love that. And nobody wants to look at themselves and think I'm a judgmental bitch or, you know, I that's a hard thing to put the mirror up to yourself and say, you know, like, I'm really projecting a whole lot of bullshit into the world.
Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. And even, like, the tone, listen to the way that you're saying that too. And I know we're saying this for the, you know, the sake of drama and theatrics in this.
But as a whole, we tend to approach ourself with that kind of disregard rather than the compassion and empathy that we need. You know? Show me myself so that I might love myself more wholly. Show me myself so that I might be a better version of love and compassion. But but we're all, you know, sort of in this broken place.
And I don't mean that in a pathetic way, but it's the this is human condition, and that's why this shadow is an archetype. It's not bad and wrong. It actually sources the greatest treasure when you do the when you do this shadow work.
Mhmm. Yeah. I think what even, like, brought us to this episode was the last episode that we did on judgment. And I was so blown away whenever I was, like Mhmm. You know, just trying to understand where does judgment come from? Why do we judge people? And it kept coming back to me for me to the shadow, and I was
like, shit.
Every single thing that I'm judging, all of these things are just a projection, really, of the own parts of myself that I have yet to find love for, that I have integrated into the light. And so I'm thinking, like, when you were saying before about, I think it was Carl Jung's theory that whatever you don't accept within yourself, that you will find in an enemy through projection. So let's say, okay, you use the the example of the boss and the employer. Right? Let's say this, you know, little employ employee is doing, shadow integration and doing this work.
So and she meets this boss as an enemy. At what point does that shift that that person no longer becomes a projection and is an enemy to you? Like Mhmm. Ever happen?
I certainly hope so because I've been invested in this for 20 something years. But I what yes. It's it's work, and it's a process. So let me use that example, and, you know, again, we'll just we'll sort of flesh this out. So let's say that that that employee and in this case, let's let's actually say a he.
Okay? So let's say that we have this man, and he feels that he's not being respected. He's never really respected by any authority figure. And so instead of ever standing up for himself, right, and ever asserting or asking for what he deserves, he develops strategies. Now, this is what we do when we are compensating.
We develop strategies to people please. Right? We develop strategies to avoid. But all the while that we develop these strategies, what we're doing is we're not tending to ourself because what he needs is to feel like he courageous enough to ask for. Okay.
So here we're talking about this masculine energy. Right? And so the boss is gonna play out this role as the dominating, judging, never loving, never accepting. And let's say that that employee has roots in having a father figure who never who himself was weak, who himself never respected himself. Right?
So you see, this is where it it this gets passed down, not just generationally, energetically, but also very simplistically through conditioning and what we see. And because that young employee, let's say, has not owned his own, let's just say inner strength, courage, masculinity, it gets projected on others and then there's fear about it. So the work then that we would do is we would identify, well, what are these coping strategies that you're using? Well, I'm a people pleaser. Well, what does that do for you?
Well, it makes people like me. Well, who's this me that they like? Well, me. Well, but who is this me that they like? It's not the authentic me, because the authentic me wants the recognition. So you see how we begin to dismantle these strategies that we're using against ourself
Mhmm.
Out of fear. And that's not something that you can just strip away because the what we just said is life is very unsafe. Mhmm. And those strategies have kept us safe. So it's a slow process of learning to feel safe in yourself and to know that you can source some of that empowerment from you and and not need to feel afraid of yourself through others. Does that make sense?
Absolutely. I heard you on a podcast that you had sent to me, and, they referred to you as I believe it was that you lovingly trigger people. Mhmm. And I thought I was thinking back to my session with you, and I was like, she fucking does that. I remember being so uncomfortable and being like, because you kept pressing, but why go deeper?
What's another next layer? Like, keep going, keep going. And I understand, like, I know that the what you were doing was helpful to me as I kept pressing, but pressing through those layers is incredibly painful.
Absolutely.
So do you think that shadow work is something that can be done unfacilitated? Like, is that something that
you feel
like can be a personal journey?
Absolutely. You know? I hope so because it's nothing fancy. Right? It has a fancy name and, sure, there there is something that is is really about it when it is facilitated, you know, with the practitioner or with the group.
What I'm what I'm doing now is I'm doing shadow work groups, and I find that the group itself acts as a wonderful container, but also acts as a wonderful mirror to trigger the group dynamics in which an individual was brought up in. So myself as the facilitator, what I'm doing is I'm like, you know, a mad conductor in some way, just pulling strings and pushing buttons because I know what's underneath that. But to create that kind of environment is to also make somebody uncomfortable enough that they can't resort to the same tactics. Mhmm. But that only works if you feel safe.
Right? Like, you have to feel safe. Otherwise, I'm just another asshole triggering them.
Right. Wow. I will like, willingly step into the discomfort. You were, like, so speaking my language. I'm like, when's your next group starting? And I'm Yeah.
In March. And I love
the shit out of.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We say that we wanna be we want it. Right? And that's also that's part of this collective right now is that we have this, like, hunger for self help.
Yes.
But then if there's also this, very there's this youngness. It's like it's a quick fix. Okay. But if I do the shadow work and I'm in the 8 groups, does that mean, like, I've integrated my shadow and now I'm lightened? Right? Because part of No. No. Right? Part of this is the is learning how to really just accept and love yourself. It's really that simple.
So I
did a a an 8 was it an 8 week or a 10 week shadow group session? And I will tell you every single week showing up there, I thought it. I resisted so hard. I didn't wanna go. I will throw myself right under the bus. I am a person that hates to do group work. I don't like being in groups. I get uncomfortable. I get embarrassed. I knew you're gonna do that. Why? It's that's a you know what? I I don't know. I feel embarrassed. I just I don't know.
I just don't love it. And so I did 8 weeks or 10 weeks, whatever it was, of this group, and I hated it, hated it, hated it. 6 months later, I was like, oh. Oh, I feel lighter. Oh, I and and not that everything was immediately fixed because it wasn't, but I could see the difference. I could feel a difference. I could feel the shift, but it took fucking 6 months.
Good for you. And and also good for you that you were able to feel into the resistance because the the ego's whole job is to protect itself from the shadow, from embarrassment, from humiliation, from all of those things that would, you know, tarnish the reputation, the status, my identity. And and so I I hear you. And when whenever there's those feelings of embarrassment or, you know, a shame or any of that, that's when we know that we're in the landscape of the shadow. And it gives you the opportunity to ask yourself, but but why?
What would it do to me if when I feel embarrassed, then what happens for me? Right? You continue to ask yourself those questions so that you can just better understand.
Oh, it's such a vulnerable place when you are in a group. You're so vulnerable. You're so raw. You're so open.
Yes.
And that's scary because showing your true self, being so raw and open about the actual shit that you think about yourself or other people
Yeah.
It's it's fucking terrifying because you wanna be accepted by everybody. And then knowing those parts of yourself gives the fear of you're not going to be accepted by everybody because, you know, x, y, and z, you thought these things. You're a terrible person. You, you know, whatever it might be. Group settings, I could see how that could lovingly trigger the shit out of somebody.
Yeah. But equally so than what it does. And, I mean, this this the the shadow work groups that I've done have yielded such immense bonding between perfect strangers. Mhmm. And I I handpicked the people, you know, that I'm putting together because as an astrologer, you know, I know your soul.
Right? You've sat with me and you're naked with me in a way that I know how then, you know, I'm I'm putting people together that are going to trigger each other, and beyond that trigger, it also turns into this deep bonding, like being in the trenches with someone else, because we want nothing more than to be seen in our nakedness and be loved. And and even to be witnessed, just to be witnessed in our own discomfort with ourself. Mhmm. We crave that so immensely, but we have not been brought up in in a society and not in a community that really fosters that.
So it's almost like we get all uncomfortable together, and then we're, like, we look around at each other, and we're all naked, and we're like, I love you. I love you too. Right? There's there's true acceptance then. And, you know, true acceptance of when we say our true self, well, who the fuck is that? Right? Because it changes seasonally.
Yeah. Right. Right. And just the idea too of, like, exposing so much of yourself and feeling love from other people, in light of all of those things. Like, how empowering for self love as well to say, like, I am worthy of love even in exposing all of these shadows that I have.
Spoken like a Leo.
As she remembered. But, yeah, to still be able to have that, outward expression of love from other people to kinda bring that in. Dana, when you were saying before about being in a group, and, like, it's so uncomfortable and it you know, I I wanna be accepted. Like, to me, that's saying, like, what a great environment for you to feel accepted so that you can have that underlying acceptance of self.
Wow. Bam. You should highlight what you just said there because if you take that and you replicate that as a template. Right? So if we go instead of all of our lofty strategies to avoid the discomfort, if we go into the discomfort, it is there that we learn how strong we are.
It is there that we learn what our true resources are. It is there that we learn that we are no longer helpless children in the world and that we are who we are because of those past experiences. So that is the medicine is to confront the demon. Right? To open the closet and see that there's no scary monsters in it. That is a figment of your imagination.
Yeah. The things in the dark are always a little bit scarier. And when you put light on them, then, you know, it's like, oh, it was just a sweatshirt on the floor.
It wasn't
some scary monster. Sorry, Dana. Go ahead. No. You're
good. So how often do you think people should do shadow work? Because it's incredibly exhausting. It's taxing. Yeah. And I like, you need to give yourself a break sometimes, right, from having to, like, dig so far in there, or am I, not right about that? Am I miseducated about that?
No. I don't think you could be miseducated about it because you have personal experience with it, Dana. So you're saying that in your experience, this is what you noticed that you needed for yourself. And I imagine that that in and of itself is the success, that you were able to parse out what you truly needed and didn't force yourself to do something just because. Right?
And so so in that, yes, I I think that this is something shadow work itself, I mean, I'm I'm giving techniques. I'm I'm helping people to see themself differently, to hold themself in a different esteem. But continuing again, this is born out of this, like, modern approach to self help is that we constantly have to be chipping away and going deeper and fixing ourself self and getting to the root of things, and it's not kind. It's not kind.
No. Yeah. You said they're like fixing yourself. That resonates so deep with me. And I feel like I have been on this journey of, like, self understanding, self discovery since such a young age.
And it's like, even as I kind of embark more so from a spiritual side of things, it's like, does it ever end? We're constantly digging in and digging in and digging in. And at some point, like, you have to understand that, like, you're at the top of the vantage point. You can see all that you can see right now and, like, take that in and experience that, and know that, like, there'll be some time under your belt in the future. Well, you're gonna have a new vantage point, and then you
get to kinda dig in again. Yeah. Totally. And I think, like, we're also asking something that's asking us to if you zoom back a little bit to, like, root out some of these really, overdone techniques or or, tactics that we have, which are about, you know, this self help, this need to constantly be analyzing ourself. And I want you to think about this for a moment.
Like, in it it it's it's great. Right? It's the quest for self help. I mean, there's 1,000,000,000 of dollars that are being made. Everybody and their mother's a healer these days. Right? Mhmm. So we've all really invested in this idea that we need this help. Now consider how much of our attention is going purely into ourself. Help movement itself is just that, but the shadow side of it and the shadow comes out when it is out of balance.
It's so out of balance now right now that we're all so obsessed with ourself under the guise of self help. Yeah? And everybody else is a narcissist, not me. Even though all I do is think about myself and how fat I am and how much I should eat and how much I'm not making and how much I and I and me. Right?
Mhmm. Oh my god.
Obsessive narcissist.
I know. It's obsessive. And so at what point, like, does that focal point shift where we are looking at not an I, but a we as the collective?
Yes. Thank you. Keep asking that fucking question every day because that's what we need to ask collectively. And what does it mean to reengage in community? What does it mean to, you know, engage in the we and drop away the self importance that we all have.
And and and we can the the world is an expression of what's happening internally. So our imbalance as a culture, as a collective look around. Look at the environment. Like, you know, look at the political landscapes. Like, we're so out of touch. Mhmm. And so it's not something that one can do, but the thing is that we're so equipped at pointing the finger. Right? It's them. They did it.
It's them. It's them. Until we can step into how can I be of service, how can I be a part of the solution versus needing to blame everything? Those are all immature tactics. Ignorance. The shadow feeds in places of ignorance. And and, again, this is not a judgment. We can't we are all part of this. We are woven from the same fabric.
Well, I can't can't
help it.
Ignorance is such a big part of it too because even, like, whether it's the political landscape or just the United States landscape as a whole. Yeah. So much of it, whenever I'm looking at it and I'm feeling like, oh my gosh. I wish that I could do something. I wanna do something. I wanna do something. How do we fix this? What do we do? Like, how do we step into something else? Then I also go, well, I'm just me, and I can't do anything because I'm just one person.
And, you know, so there's there's a lot of that too because I'm like, I don't know. I'm ignorant to all of it.
And I feel helpless. That's what that's the part that we have a hard time as a collective just saying is how helpless we really feel because that's real vulnerability. And rather than feel helpless, we distract ourself with silly things. We engage in, you know, like, reality TV, and we'd pay attention to the drama that's going on there than the drama that exists here. Right?
We we have, like, outsourced our trauma in such a way that nobody's really coming home. Right? So, again, I wanted to say this in a practical way. How do we begin to start doing this healing when you're only one person? Well, you live in a family, you live in a community, you live in a town.
And when you begin to contribute, because that's what we've been put here to do is to contribute our gift and our talent, whatever that may be. When we start to reengage with that, it loosens up the obsession with self. Just like you said so beautifully, Dana, it took 6 months for you to feel the effects.
Yeah. So I'm curious. You had mentioned gifts and that kind of, like, jumped up in my mind, for people that are like, I don't know what my gifts are. What are my gifts? Do you think that in doing shadow work, people discover their gifts?
Absolute. I well, I I would love to say absolutely, but I'm an optimist. So let me say this instead. Because, again, that takes perspective. And a part of the shadow is there's very much a victim mentality. Poor me. I'm not good enough. I'll never be good. I compare myself with others. So this is a whole mentality.
How do you uproot and dismantle this mentality so that I mean, just the fact that we're breathing and taking up space is gift enough, you know? And if and if I could turn and smile at somebody that has a frown, then I've done my gift for the day. So I wanna say that our gifts are as simple as that. However, because we are so repressed as a culture and we're we're comparing ourself to everything, we think that our gifts, like, we have to be fucking influencers. Right?
Or we have to be this, or we have to be that because our little menial gift of being able to make somebody smile when they're having a bad day isn't worthy of anything other than just being that. So this, again, are the parts of us as little people, and you're both mothers. So we point out those things. We don't say to our children, you know, oh, I'm so proud of you. We say, I'm so proud of you when you did x y z.
I saw the way that, you know, you held back that and you did this instead. Like, there's we have to begin to see each other rather than just going, like, you know, that the general, like, oh, you're cool. You're beautiful. What does that really mean individually?
You know, I'm thinking about, like, culture within the US specifically and just how divided we are and separate we are from family and how easy it is to just really lean on your, like, nuclear family as part of your community. And I think that if community, tribe, village, those have been buzzwords for me that I I feel somewhere in me is like a calling, a draw towards that. Mhmm. But whether it be maybe it's just not fast enough for my liking. I expect, like, when I say, oh, I want this this village, this community, I'm gonna snap a finger, and all of a sudden, I have, like, this really strong team of people around me.
But I think that within the US, culturally, we have been so divided. And so how do we start to weave back into this, like, community type of setting with Mhmm. With whether it be where we live, where whether it be our job or whatever. Like, at what point are we able to come together as a stronger community? What what types of things are we capable of doing?
I hear you. And I I there's 2 things I wanna say to that. The first one, you know, is is this part that I think so where does the shadow, you know, as an archetype, where does the the shadow originate from? It's separation. Right?
And we live in we we live in a reality that is is polar. Good, bad, right, wrong, happy, start right. So so the the separation is there. It's part of the human condition. Consider, like, you know, being when you are in in your mother in the womb, it you are one with another.
Your pure existence is that with another. And at that moment of birth, when we are so rudely pushed out of the womb into the world, is the first wound of separation. It's the separation of self. So we all have this innate desire to reconnect, to merge, right, to reunite. It's part of our human condition, but we are also painfully aware that we are separate individuals.
And in that separateness is where we start to develop a sense of self, and that sense of self has qualities we like and other qualities that we hide. So I I want to paint that picture because in some ways, the divisiveness is built into, like, the absurdity of what it means to be a human. Okay? Mhmm. So this now what we're talking about, this quest to reunite this, this quest to integrate this, to to have this peace, it's still coming from that initial urge, that desire to reconnect, to find our tribe, to find our our place, to go back to where we feel most connected.
And that's really important because I think that that is the spiritual quest. That is the drive in all of us. Biologically as well, we seek to connect with others. So now I'll answer the other part of your question where I think you were going. How do we do this?
You You you started to say something, and you'll hear this in the recording the recording. And this is what people tend to do is, you know, well, at what point will I be like this, or when will I have that? Or and and even in the line of questioning, when we're saying that, we're acknowledging that it's something outside of ourself. It's something that we don't already have. You you you feel where this is going? It's
Mhmm.
It it furthers the separation. So what I ask people to do is to look back outside of you and what you don't have, continue to build the connection to the resource that you do have because you're infinite and you're already whole.
Yes. So beautiful. Wow.
Right. So that's what we have to teach people is no. No. No. Before you go out there and wanna fix that, where is it already perfect? Where is it already whole?
Yeah. I think that that's, like, the separation of self though. You know, we have a hard time looking inward and being, like, oh, yeah. That I do have some of that. I do have a part of that that does reside within me. We're always, I feel like we're taught from such a young age to look to the external for fulfillment that, part of my, like, I guess, ancestral pass down to my kids is, like, look within yourself. It's already there.
Yes. And see, when you teach that when you teach that and you embody that, then you begin to heal that wound backwards and forwards in time. Right? And so this shadow work, I think is one of these it's this way of energetically reuniting. Healing also is such a strong word these days.
What does it actually mean? Right? But this integration, this unification of parts of all these dismembered parts. And if we took it even one step deeper, like, we're doing this we're doing this work on behalf of our ancestors who, you know, maybe couldn't do it, but were also so equipped with what they did have, what their wisdom was that we're bringing forward as our gift. You know?
Even if it's dysfunction, even if it's alcoholism, even if it's death, like, it's still a gift because it bestows life experience, and it bestows wisdom through going through something. Right? Life is not a safe place.
So I know that you you had said that you do the group sessions. What are some of the tactics that you use? I know the the one that I did was, like, hypnotherapy. Oh. And that was, like, we would do group hypnosis, which was, very interesting and you know? So what are some of the things that you integrate into your practice?
So the groups that I do I mean, I I I really believe in the work, and I I have a background. I worked in, in treatment, in addiction for about 15 years. So I have a lot of experience with, you know, that that group dynamics is it just it's the wild, wild west. And so, you know, really, like, working with herding cats. So the work that I'm doing, I very much trust the process is what I'm saying.
And it's not a group that I can be well scripted in because what I'm doing is I'm acting as the container. And, again, because I I know the people that are there, I I know I know them. And so when they're showing up in their ego and, you know, they're talking about something that I know is like bullshit, and that's not really what that's that's not really what you mean right now, I can lovingly provoke them. I can engage another person, you know, to relate because I know that these two people have something in common that they've not shared. Right?
So there's there's a lot that's going on that's under the surface. And in that, then the other thing that I am a very strong proponent of is we we often talk, we use words, but they're they're there's nothing in it. There's no life to those words. And so we we share these things about ourself, but there's no emotion that's attached. It's as though we're, like, you know, all of us are on the spectrum in some way.
So I slow people down for them to feel in to what they're sharing. Mhmm. I question people to reflect on with if what they just said resonates in their body. Because much of this integration, you know, the shadow, it it tells us we we know we're triggered, not in our head, but in our body. We feel a certain way emotionally.
And then when you're in a group, group dynamics, things are gonna come up. And so if people are trying to be nice and polite in the group, and I know that's not really the way they feel about the thing that the per you know what I'm saying? I just I I spice it up enough that it can come up, and everybody can experience the discomfort of it. Oh, my god. Right?
It rises, and then how do we bring ourself down to a place of composure that was not built into the tactics of people pleasing and avoidance? How can you remain within yourself and not abandon yourself in the moment that you feel uncomfortable? How can you feel vulnerable and be witnessed by another, and not feel the need to leave your body and disassociate? How can you say something that resonates from within and show through the affect of your body that what you said is true, not on the merit of founding intellectual, but but on the humanity of feeling what somebody else says. It's called empathy.
Mhmm. And that's the other buzzword. Everybody's an empath, but nobody is willing to feel anything.
Oh, gosh. That's so fucking true. Adrianne, that is just, like, hitting me on so many levels. We are such great storytellers. Right? We can all tell our story. Oh, when I was 6, this happened. Oh, this trauma. Oh, that trauma. But we're so detached. No one is attached to the feeling of the shit that they went through. And so we all just, you know, go through and we tell our story, but then one person pokes us in a place where we have a wound and we come totally disassembled.
Totally. Well, that's it. I mean, you you you got it in a nutshell. Right? And so shadow work could be as simple as that. How do we align the emotion with the story?
Mhmm. Right.
And that's in the body. Right? So shadow work, going back to that, this is not an intellectual pursuit of therapy. You know, in some of my groups, I have been known to make people sit upside down, and remain upside down staring at each other so that we get the point of what it is. You know, and others, like people have been known to just, you know, start crying and laughing, and we don't know, because the shadow is a place that has everything has been repressed.
And if you can imagine all that energy, like, emotion is an energy, And it's typically the dark emotions, the negative emotions that we're repressing. How much it's just a ticking time bomb. Right? Ready to explode. And so we all are tiptoeing around it without actually being with it, being with the discomfort. Right? Growing up.
So I have a question. When we're talking about shadow, we do talk a lot of that's like the the darkness, the shameful, the guilt, the ugly. Right? Is there like fun in people's shadow?
Do people
repress the fun? Do they repress
like their sexual kinks and stuff? Yes.
People that have a hard time experiencing joy, like, at somewhere in their shadow, is that, like, like, locked away.
Very good. Very good. Thank you. You're keeping me on track so good. You bring me back you no.
Really. You you bring me back to this part that so there's something called the golden shadow. Mhmm. And, yes, there are lots of parts of ourself that we have cut off because let's think about this for a moment. Think about the sensitive, artistic, poetic boy who grew up and all that he ever wanted to do was write poetry and and write his stories, but he grew up in an environment that expected him to be a man, that expected him to be a provider and to have an income.
And so he had to basement, never to be seen again, right, in service of things that are very important. He does need to grow up and get a job and move on. So locked away in his shadow then might be his creativity. It might be his imagination. Mhmm.
Right? And so when we begin to unpack this, what often comes, you know, bursting out of Pandora's box is not just the darkness. Right? And the darkness is just waiting to be transmuted anyway, but it's also all those beautiful, spirited parts, wild parts of ourself that we thought weren't going to be accepted or were dangerous or were ahead of our time, whatever those reasons are. And, Dana, you said something, I think, you know, about sex and I mean, sex carries one of the biggest taboos, sex, money, religion, politics.
Anything that exists in as in the taboo has this the darkest shadow, the strongest shadow Yeah. Which means that we all project onto it.
So many questions.
Well, one of the things that I love just in conversing with people and being a person that knows a little bit about the shadow, not a lot and getting to talk with you and having this conversation with Jess as well. It blows my mind the things that I would have never thought of if I didn't have community, if I didn't have you, if I didn't have Jess to help same way that yours does. And to gain that knowledge, to rid yourself of the ignorance, it's so important to have other people in that community with you.
Totally. Totally. And, I mean, you're you're speaking to the human condition. Right? And so if we go back to, you know, what the shadow is, it's unconscious. And unless we have a mirror, unless we have a screen or something to project it on, I e a relationship, another person, we can't come to know our self. You know? If I had shit on my face, I wouldn't know unless I had a mirror. I'd walk around with it on my face until someone said, hey. You've got something on your face.
Right. And so you're we do need we need others. We need relationships to help us work this out. And we do the same for others. You know, which, you know, when we get into a deeper area of this, it's it's as if, like, even evil is an archetype.
There's no such thing as evil or good. These are all just archetypal experiences. And and I think what you said too, Jess, which is really important in this is, yes, we all think differently. Right? We all have these differences, but then the paradox is is then we're all the same.
Right? We're all cut from the same human experiences, but there's so many beautiful different ways to experience the sameness of what it means to be human. And so if we can hold that sameness, we are all 1, we can also both, appreciate the differences, but not other the differences. Do you know what I mean?
Yes. That is such a good point. The othering side of the differences, honing in on the differences is what can continues to cause that divisiveness.
Exactly.
Yes.
And it's the the duality of it all. It's another word that I'm really coming around to is accepting both sides of the coin. Totally.
Right. Both sides of the coin.
The other.
Right? And there you go. I mean, that's what shadow work is. It's the integration of both the light and the dark. If I can see inside myself my own bigotry, it doesn't mean that I'm a bigot.
It means that I can see where I could be capable of that, where that exists within me. And so long as I can kinda see that part of myself, doesn't mean I am it or that I that I acted out. That's the part of this. It just means that I'm aware of it there. Once I'm aware of it there, then I'm not going to be as triggered by it out there, and I might take intentional action to be a political science person.
You you see what I'm saying? Versus when it comes out of a place that's unconscious, possibly feel in any way that you're better than any you see what I'm saying?
Yes.
We've really gotta be willing to look at ourself.
When you're reacting to it versus when you're aware that it's there and then Yeah. Able to respond to it or, like, guide those parts of yourself. Like, oh, I see how that I could go this direction. But because I'm aware of it and because I have this self love and acceptance of all the parts of me, I can then kind of maneuver around those things.
I can make different I can make different decisions, and this is where Jung would say that that's that's what that's what consciousness is. It's our ability to be able to to see and to understand ourself and make those conscious decisions to the extent that we're conscious, of course.
Right. Right. Yeah. And another thing that I, that's coming up for me here that I am just absolutely in awe of, that I love so much, and I wonder what your thoughts are on it. Jess and I talk all the time about how we are not experts on any of this stuff.
We're but but to but to talk about it, you don't have to be an expert on it. And I think so many people have that idea that in order for them to work on something or to talk about it or, you know, to put it out there that they need to be an expert of some sort. And so I wonder with you, I know I you our shadows are always with us. So I imagine that as you are helping other people through their shadow, maybe it's also helping you through yours or you're also simultaneously working through some of your own stuff while you are able to help facilitate other people.
Absolutely. And that's where, again, like, you know, what's this is this is a field of energy that exists, and and it's it's very hard to talk about it as though, you know, it's a concept. It's not a concept. It has an energy. It attracts.
The shadow will attract into your life the contents that you need to help make something conscious. And so my work with others, it's also working in that field. And when I'm feeling a certain emotion, I'm I have to check-in with my own body and my own system. And, of course, well, I'll I'll give you a great example. I was I had a shadow group, you know, that I was doing, last year, and this coincided with while my husband was really sick and and dying of cancer.
And so I I was going through a lot. And to be holding this kind of space for a group of people that were also going through that, I had to be very conscientious of my own inner workings and not to project my own stuff. And let me let me rephrase that. To be conscious of how much I was projecting. It's not black and white. It's inevitable.
It's inevitable.
Yeah. Mhmm. So, yes, it keeps me very much, you know, it it keeps me honest to the extent that I can be honest, but it continues to teach me about myself. And anytime we go through a big life experience, which I just did, you know, it's ripe for all I I don't know who I am again. I'm back in this place of, you know, curiosity and uncertainty, and this identity that I've developed over the last, like, 35 years of my life is up for, like, renewal.
But what's different now is where before, I really need to know. That's the way that I control in life. I know makes me feel safe. Well, makes me feel safe from what? That's what the shadow is asking me. Of what? Of what? And as I dig in there, right, it's I've I've felt safe for a long time. I just haven't got the memo. So I don't need to act out in the ways that I once did.
I need to remember, I'm safe. I'm safe. And this is where the golden shadow comes forward. I'm not alone. Thought my whole life I was alone. I came out of a lot of death. My parents died when I was young. I've been running this narrative, a very true narrative that I'm alone and people die. And it happened again, but I am not alone. I am connected, and I'm going through a human experience that so many other empathetic people want to be a part of.
It's the kindest thing that we can do for others is to be there for them.
I know that we talked about empathy being one of those buzzwords. I mean, I I do feel that I take on a lot of other people's feelings. I can feel it when I walk in a room, and I I are are you that way also? I'm getting the feeling that you can feel that energy pretty easily.
Yeah. You know, I think, again, I think we're all naturally empaths. I think there are some of us that are more sensitive than others. You know? And as an astrologer looking at somebody's horoscope, I can certainly pick that out.
And and I have that signature, and, you know, I'm sure that you do too. And and be being an empath, also, there we're learning how to set boundaries, how to protect ourself in that way. Right? But again, you have to realize we're not in a we're not in a community, we're not in a society that really gives us a safe enough container to feel into our empathy. So instead, we have a lot of influencers, right, on Instagram that are claiming to be empaths.
Yeah. And then running these courses about how to protect yourself as an empath. We need to protect ourself from the negative energy. No. The negative energy exists within. We don't need to protect ourselves from the outer world. We need to befriend the inner world.
Wow. So whenever we're navigating our way through the world, right, and we're now, I'm aware that this thing called a shadow exists. Mhmm. And I'm aware that my shadow often presents itself when I'm feeling triggered in my body. What are ways that we can be good humans and, words that we can use within the community of safety and the people that we're trying to build to help communicate whenever you're feeling triggered or whenever you're feeling like this is some part of your shadow that's coming up.
How do we safely communicate that with people that, you know, not just anybody in the world, but the people who are like, okay, I am, you know, part of this, container for you. I like the word that you because I'm part of this container. Dana and I, you know, we're unbadding together. We're doing this journey together, and she's part of that container for me. So what what is the language?
What is the things that we can use to communicate with somebody when we're feeling triggered by another person? What what would you suggest?
Yeah. And that's one of the first things that I do in the shadow group is that, you know, because, again, trigger is another one of those buzzwords, and we'd like to throw around untriggered. But what I ask of people is to say, okay, you're triggered and you feel what? Because triggered means that it triggered something in you. But if you can't identify what it triggered in you, then we need to talk more about your, you know, emotional illiteracy than we do you being triggered, Right?
So I ask people to complete the sentence by saying, I triggered and I feel afraid. I feel minimized. I feel right? So to name that emotion and then to connect. You know, the next question I ask people, so I feel triggered and I feel angry. How do you know? What you mean how do I know? How do you know I feel angry? Because I feel angry. How do you know?
Because I'm tightening my jaw, because I'm locking up in my stomach right now, because I'm clenching my fist. Right? Our body is also then it's either, like, saying, yeah, Leah, we do feel this, or our body's, you know, in misalignment with that. And so the language that we use is one that is more, reflective than just, definitive. I feel triggered.
You triggered me when you did that. So instead, you know, when you said that thing, god, I felt really triggered. It it reminded me of when I was a child and my mom would speak down on me. Right? So we didn't blame the other. We just said that when you raised your voice, it really triggered me and I felt this way. Right? And what I need is this. Please, you know, don't speak so loudly. Or when you're talking about women, maybe don't use the word cunt.
That's not something that feels really good for me. Right? So, again, we're taking ownership for these are my emotions and these are my triggers.
Yeah. And I also love, like, finishing it with a need because how do you know how to move forward if you don't know what you need? And so many people know what's wrong, but they don't know what they want or what they need.
Very good. And you can't set boundaries if you don't know what you want or need. So that's the other piece of this. I I want just for the talking about also exist in in attraction as well. So whoever we fall in love with is the ultimate projection.
Whoever we have a crush on, we're projecting all of the inner good stuff in ourselves on the other as well. So it's it is a function of coming to know ourself. So the shadow also exists in the parts that are just haven't grown yet. Maybe you don't know that, you know, you are really an amazing leader, but you tend to fall in love with other people who show those leadership qualities. And it's not until being in that relationship with the other that you begin to hone those qualities rather than just falling in love with them outside of you.
So you see what I'm saying here? It's not just negative things. There are also positive things. We have to feel either attracted or repulsed. That's when we know we're in shadow land.
And I'm really gonna be looking at my husband in a whole
new light. So true. So, so true. Mhmm. So this was kind of a question that I had too. Like, when it comes to if you're triggered, is it just safe to assume it's the shadow? Like, is it ever that other people are just assholes?
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes.
I'm like, it's always me. It must always be me. Like, what
Well, but but it is you. It's coming through you. Right? But, no, it's not always you. And, again, I don't want to endorse this, this hyper need to constantly be like, oh, I need to look at myself. This must be my shadow. What is it about me? Sometimes it's just, like, you know what? I'm hungry, and I'm just in a I'm in a mood right now. Yeah.
It's when there's a theme. It's when it's, like, every strong man that, you know, is a boss. I don't know why. Every time I get around them, I don't it feel this way. Every woman who is really beautiful, like, for you'll start to find a theme. Those are the triggers that you really want to explore. On the daily, you know, if you're if you're taking some accountability, for sure, but I wouldn't say be hyper about it.
I love that. And this has been a very eye opening episode for me. Can you tell people where they can go, where they might find you? Do you do online sessions as well, or is it in person?
All of the above. I, so I'm I'm gonna be starting my shadow work groups, coming up at the end of, end of February, beginning of March. These groups are typically about 8 to 10 weeks, and they're small intimate groups. And, I I need to know the person before, you know, they're in the group because not everybody is in a place to do shadow work. I wouldn't work with somebody that I didn't feel was stable, and it didn't have a strong enough ego to even go there.
Got it. So I do that. The astrology, I'm still doing as well, and I'm doing a lot of other really fun new stuff. I'm I'm starting to do some offerings in my home. Play has been something that's been very interesting to me and how we can use play to restore some of that joy. And so play is one of the, one of the ways in which I want to to do some some work in the world.
I love that. You have definitely set off all of my alarms and bells and whistles, so you'll be seeing a lot more of my face, hopefully, Instagram?
Yeah. Sure. My Instagram is adrienne. It's my name. You'll maybe you'll spell that for them. Yeah. We will. Okay. Okay. Adrienne soul sessions is my Instagram, and then you can find me at adrienneabeta.com.
And we'll definitely link that for you guys. Yeah.
So you can find all of that information in our show notes. Adrian, thank you so much for coming on and expanding our minds a little bit more on a subject that a lot of people, I think, are starting to open up to, and I think it's really important.
Yeah. I do too. Yeah. Thank you. I love, obviously talking about this. So thanks for getting me all excited and riled up before bed.
Yeah. I know.
Sleep in a day.
Thank you. Just a personal thank you for me. Your wisdom is always, like, such a beautiful experience for me to kinda take home with me. So thank you for sharing that with me and with all of our listeners. Yeah. We're welcome.
Yeah. Thank you.
Until next time. We're on batting, baby. On
We're on a journey, baby. We're run batting, baby.