Well, hello again, and welcome to the Trim the Wick podcast. I'm, Dan.
And I'm Becky.
And we are with you, and we are doing something totally different today. We're out and about and on the road, and we thought that we would take you along with us because a lot of times we have these discussions while we're driving around and we, we really allow God to speak to us. And it seems to be one of the best times that we get to do this is while we're literally just out driving around and talking to each other.
And not a lot of distractions.
No, except for driving the whole driving thing, staying alive type thing.
But there's nobody interrupting you and pulling you aside and no phones ringing and you just get to really get into in depth conversations. And so that's what we do.
So I guess we're going to call this the, trim the Wicked podcast. Road edition is what we'll call this. M so, just so you know, you're going to hear noises in the background, you'll hear sounds and all kinds of things. So just kind of, ah, let you know, we are sitting in the car, driving around, enjoying, a beautiful late summer day, and we wanted to sit down and talk with you guys and invite you into one of our conversations.
So we're kind of going to be continuing last week's conversation on Holy Spirit. We were talking about who he is and, who he's not and kind of what our backgrounds had been. We teased it a little bit at the end of the last episode that we were going to talk some about. How does, I mean, how do you know you have it? How does he show up in your life? Is there some kind of a formula? Are there certain rituals that you have to involve yourself in in order to receive him? What does that look like?
Yeah, and I think that's one of the things that gets people really confused, because a lot of times the Bible is really simple and self explanatory and we go, oh, it can't be that easy, right?
Human beings tend towards the complex, right.
We always think like, oh, there's got to be something you have to do. You have to clear out your mind, you have to go through this thing and have six people pray over you, and you've got to, you have to.
Sit in a specific environment for x amount of time.
And so basically, going back to what Jesus told the disciples to do is first, of all, Jesus said that the Father is going to give you the person of the Holy Spirit and that the person of the Holy Spirit was going to live inside of you and that he was going to be the one that was going to bring all of the teachings of Jesus to mind.
Right.
He was going to be the one that's going to convict you of sin. he's the one that's going to help you and give you the fruit of living a righteous life and a holy life which is unattainable without the spirit.
Right.
So Jesus tells him, he says, listen, guys, go and go to this place, and you're going to stay in Jerusalem and you're going to wait and you're going to pray, and you're going to receive the gift that I'm going to be giving you, that the Father is going to be giving you. So they do exactly what Jesus says.
Which is a good thing to do.
Yeah. And they were just sitting there. And we read in acts two that the spirit came suddenly, that the spirit just comes upon them and they were open to it, they were prepared for it, they were wanting it.
Right.
And it came and it comes upon them, and that's how they receive the Holy Spirit. So today, 20, 24. How do we receive the Holy Spirit? Are we supposed to go away to someplace and hide up and seek out and pray and then wait for 40 days, and it only happens on, the day of Pentecost? Or is it more the idea that we are to be prepared and just open to receive what God is giving us?
Right. Well, and the going away and waiting in the upper room, that we see Jesus commanding the disciples to do that was a protection for them in the time. Right. We talked last week about how sometimes even when they were in Jesus presence, but certainly when they were out of Jesus presence, there was fear that took over. There was, They were powerless
apart from Christ. They were powerless that sending them to the upper room and saying, hey, listen, tuck yourselves away to wait for a time, that was a protection for them, that was keeping them out of harm's way, away from a. A governmental structure that was still very violently against
the followers of Jesus Christ. Right. Because Jesus knew that for that interim period, the likelihood for them to fall under fear and doubt and those things was great because Jesus wasn't going to be with them and they didn't have the Holy Spirit yet.
Right.
And so it was a protection for them. That's a difference between their time and ours. Right.
I agree.
There was, there was a vacuum kind of, in their lives, and there were circumstances surrounding them that they were not in their flesh capable of meeting with any kind of power, so that, that removal of them away was, was a protection for them until they were filled with the power. So, no, I don't think that we need to, in like manner go. Okay, we're gonna sit. And there's a specific
appointed time. there is an appointed time for us individually, but not that there is a holy spirit's only going to come on pentecost. This was the first time that we see people other than Jesus himself being completely filled with the presence of God.
Right.
In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit came and dwelt with different individuals and then left.
Yes. Right.
He came, accomplished his purpose, spoke his words. You walked in his power, and then he left. This is a new thing that's happening.
Yeah. And this again goes back to prophetic writings of how his word will be written on your hearts and your minds, that the Holy Spirit does that, that he writes God's words on your heart and your mind, and he brings those things that in the Old Testament they didn't have, they had memorization. You know, they, you still see that with the, the Jews today, where they put the, I forget what.
The phylacteries. Yeah.
And so that they put the word of God in these things where they tie it and put it next to their heart and they put it on their forehead where the Holy Spirit has taken care of that.
Right.
And so the other thing is that, this idea, because I've heard these things and we're kind of debunking a few little things as we go. but, you know, I have heard that the only time you can receive the Holy Spirit is, you know, on the day of Pentecost. That's the only time that the spirit falls. And, you know, I don't see anything in scripture that says that that is the only day you see other people receive the Holy Spirit. Throughout the New Testament. It says Paul's teachings and then they
receive the Holy Spirit. the only thing that you see a lot of is the laying on of hands.
Right.
And the importance of that laying on of hands and praying and having someone praying over you, praying with you to receive Holy Spirit. And so I do see that quite often, but again, you don't always see that as that is the prerequisite. Right that it has to be to receive Holy Spirit. So as I read scripture, it is a willingness and a desire to receive the gift that God has given you.
Right.
And then a, if I'm going to give you a gift, you have to just receive it, and you have to take it, and you have to say, this is now mine. That the father in heaven has given me, holy spirit, and it's mine now.
Right. that laying on of hands is something that you see as a. Something that is helpful for the one receiving. Right. When you. When you're talking holy spirit, there's a lot of question marks around him. You know, there's. There's a lot of. This feels a little odd, this. I'm not sure if I know what to expect. Right. The disciples, when they were in that upper room, they had been told to go and sequester themselves, and that holy spirit would come and they would receive power
and. But they. All the question marks. Okay, what's he gonna look like? What's he gonna be like? What are you gonna. He's gonna be like you, but. But he's gonna, indwell us. Like, how does that work? There's all these. I don't understand right around it. And then when he did come, he came with the sound of a mighty rushing wind and with tongues of fire sitting on their heads and not exactly an expected, normal, everyday experience.
And so in that laying on of hands to receive the spirit, there is a level in that of God giving the comfort of. Listen, this is a known. Right. You know, this person who is laying on their hands, you recognize that in them is something that you desire.
Right.
But you're not even quite sure what to ask for because it's beyond you. And so there is a level of familiarity that it lends to you of going, okay, I understand that if you have something and I desire that thing, you can reach out your hand and give it to me.
Right.
So it's almost like God puts that into place to give us a little something that's understandable, that's tactile, that's visual, that we can put and tuck away and go, okay, I'm going to request this. Yes, I do want this gift, and I don't understand 99.9% about it, but the 0.01% of, okay, you have it and you put your hands on me, and I choose to receive. That part I get.
Right.
I can understand that.
Yeah. Well, and, going all the way back, you don't see the disciples. You know, there was no one that laid their hands on the disciples to receive.
Right? No, they just received.
They just received the Holy Spirit. One of the things we wanted to talk about is also, how do you know. How do you know you've received holy Spirit? Because going back to our training and seminary training, you receive holy spirit on salvation, that when you're saved, you are sealed by the spirit. But we had been taught that, oh, we'd already gotten the Holy Spirit, and that Holy Spirit's something that's more important than what has happened in our life already.
Right? So what I grew up having been taught was that Holy Spirit was, a comfort when there were struggle times. I had been taught that he was the one that had sealed my salvation. And I was taught that he was basically my. He was my Jiminy cricket, right? He was my conscience. And so anytime I had feelings of guilt or that apprehension against doing something wrong, that was Holy Spirit. And that was. That was the extent of what I believed his role in my life was supposed to be.
Right.
He's Jiminy Cricket, and he seals my salvation, and he comforts me when I'm hurting. And those are all good things, right? Yes.
And again, there is scripture to support that. Those are some of the things that Holy Spirit does in our life, but.
It'S not the fullness, but it's not.
The complete of what Holy Spirit is.
Right?
And so, for me, that was what I was taught, right. And I always had this kind of. I, don't think that's it. I struggle with the whole thing of, you know, that doesn't make sense, that you'd only have holy spirit as part of the miracles and the healings and all that that would die off. I never understood that didn't make sense to me that that would happen.
Well, and there was confusion for me because, again, I was saved at a very young age. I was nine years old. I began having some of those manifestations of the spirit in my life. I began having dreams. I began speaking in tongues, but I didn't know what it was. And so I literally squelched it in my life. I was like, this is just, you know, there's something wrong with
Becky. She's a little bit weird because when she's by herself and in her room and, you know, just kind of sitting, chilling, sometimes she says things that are. And it was. What do they call it? The, There it is. this function comes over you and you speak. And I was experiencing that where these random syllables would come out of my mouth, but it was like, they need to come out. I am not capable of stopping them. But it scared me.
Right, right.
it literally scared me. I was like, I'm. What is wrong with me? Is there some kind of disorder going on? Is there a. And I am absolutely not going to talk about this with anybody, because I know in my church that what that's going to be labeled as immediately is demonic.
Right.
And I don't even want to deal with that.
Yeah.
You know, and so there was, for me, as a child, when Holy Spirit did have some of those manifestations in my life, it terrified me.
Right.
Because I had no understanding, to put them around. So basically what I did is I rejected those and actively sought to stop them and quiet them. I hindered the spirit's movement in my.
Life, which I think is what a lot of people do. And for me, my thing was, is that I was getting prophetic words and words of knowledge, but I didn't understand what it was, and I was immature and would then use that to leverage things that I wanted and was doing. And there's a huge thing between the gifts of the spirit and character, that the gifts are the gifts of the spirit, but your character has to be developed to handle the gifts of the spirit, and that's a whole
nother thing. But, so for me, I was just very confused, and there was no one to go to, to talk to about it in our church that we were going to. And even when it was brought up, it was quickly, quickly pushed down.
Because everybody around us was uncomfortable with the situation, because there was lack of understanding broadly.
Right. So one of the things that happened with Becky and I is that we had a kind of a crisis of faith moment. after being in the ministry for a few years, we kind of. I tell people that we did faith, deconstruction before it was cool, before it was cool, before anyone knew what it was. But we broke it down and said, listen, we want to throw everything out that we believe, except for we know God is goddesse, we know Jesus is his son, this is his
word. This is his word. And we are going to just take time to go back and put away the things that we've been taught for 20 years through seminary and through Bible teaching and through school and everything else, and just kind of dive into what does the word actually say and what does it mean? And one of the things that, out of all this is we started to see how Holy Spirit is such a part of your everyday life, and the fact of pushing it down and hiding
it was wrong. And actually grieves holy spirit, and it.
Robs you of power and authority in your day to day.
Exactly. And so we started on a quest of, okay, this is what we believe now. This is what believe, believe it or not a lot of the things that we were taught, we still hold dear to.
Yes.
So, not everything that we were taught was wrong. And that's kind of a thing of a lot of people who deconstruct their faith. They throw everything out and they say, oh, this was all bad, and I was deceived and all that. No, that's not. When you really, with an honest heart, look back at what you've been taught, you're gonna find that there's a lot of things that you were taught that was actually true and correct, and we believe those things, and we teach those
things even today. But there are things that you were taught that were not correct. And the, I believe the mature thing, the thing to do, is that you look at those things that you were taught incorrectly and you correct them.
Right. Without bitterness towards who taught them, and without, you know, it's just a simple, wow, we really did not understand the fullness of this.
Right.
And so, thank you, father, for correcting that in our lives, because now we can walk right. More rightly.
And now. So now when we go, okay, speaking in tongues, okay, we look at it and we go, okay, this is something that is now a part of our life. It's not a prerequisite for the spirit being a part of your life, but it is one of the gifts of the spirit. And as you start to open up and realize how holy spirit is so much more part of your life and that he's active in your life, you start understanding the gifts and the giftings more.
Right.
So it helps you to start seeing these things, like speaking in tongues, like prophecy, like understanding, and all these things, and you start walking in those things.
So, which was made possible for us because in that deconstruction process, one of the things we did is before we opened the word back up for ourselves again and said, okay, anything that any person has taught us in our life, we're going to hold that as it may or may not be true. But we know that scripture teaches that Holy Spirit is to be our teacher.
Right.
So right now we sat down, what, it was two, two and a half years. Yeah, but it was you, me, the word of God and asking the spirit of God.
Yeah.
To go, okay, that's it. We take no other teachers. We're not listening to any podcast.
Yeah.
We're not reading any books. We're not. It is the Bible, Holy Spirit in us. And that's it.
Yep. And I encourage everyone that before you open your Bible to start reading the word, always, always ask Holy Spirit, teach me what you want me to see. Jesus said this explicitly. That's why Holy Spirit is being sent to you, so that he would be a teacher to you. So ask him. Teach me what you want me to see, what you want me to understand out of these words. And so as we're kind of going
through this process, how would you know then? this is kind of just the question throwing out there is that how do we know then that Holy Spirit is in our life? How do we know that it's not just, warm and fuzzies, you know, because a lot of people have put on holy spirit that that's what he is, that he is just a bunch of warm and fuzzies.
He makes you feel good and makes you feel good. But what are the actual evidences?
Right. So what would be the evidences that you could go, okay, I know holy spirit's in my life?
Well, there's, again, there are. If we go back to when the disciples received holy spirit, there was pretty clear evidence in that room. Right. And some of us have that kind of a definitive moment when holy spirit comes into our lives. Some of us, there is a physical. We fall down or we begin to speak in tongues, or there is some people report, a feeling of fire or of wind. And so there are sometimes those tangible. Right, okay. I know something happened there. but it's
not just that. It's not just that experience. Right. The disciples didn't walk around going, so we were in this room, and there were tongues of flame on top of our heads, and that's how we know.
Right.
Right. They came out of that room and they were different people.
Yes.
And that's. That's how we know we can have emotional moments with the Holy Spirit. We can have physical, tangible moments with Holy Spirit. And I believe those are blessings and those are gifts, and they help strengthen our faith, for sure.
Yes.
when I was permitted to unleash that, speaking in tongues without fear and with understanding, there was a tangible moment where a Ydezenhe, an elder lady in the faith put her hands on me and prayed over me and basically said, it's okay, Becky. It's okay. Just open your mouth. Don't be afraid. And it unleashed things for me. Sometimes there are those moments where older, more mature believers will lay hands on and impart in that manner. And so you
have those tangible moments, and they are. They are such a blessing to have those kind of touchstones in your faith walk. But the real evidence of holy spirit actually being active of you actually having gone. Yes, I will receive the fullness of the gift of who you are. is that you're a changed person.
Yes.
You walk in authority that you didn't have before. You walk in boldness that you didn't have before. You understand truth that you didn't understand before. And you walk towards people the way Jesus walked towards people. Right. And the scripture gives us a list of gifts that we. Of, fruits. Not just the gifts, but the fruits that we can look for.
And if you see these fruits in m your life or in somebody else's life, it's a pretty clear indication that they're not walking according to the power of their flesh, because these fruits only come about by the power of the Holy Spirit. And so if you see somebody walking in peace and hope and love and list them all.
Yeah, but again, that is the, the whole idea of the. You'll be known by your fruit, we'll know them by their fruit, and you'll see that the fruit is not just the fruit that they will produce, as in, you know, a lot of people think that that's. Oh, okay. So that shows the, you know, how their ministry is prosperous, or they're.
The big house, or they have the.
Big house and their business does well because they're, you know, that's the fruit of the. No, the fruit is the fruit of the spirit. You know, the peace, the joy, love.
Joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self control.
Goodness, you know, and those are the things. Those are the things that is the fruit of the Holy Spirit in your life. So when your life is producing those things, that is one demonstration of holy spirit working in your life.
Right, because we can't produce those things in our own selves.
No, because our natural selves are children of wrath. And our natural selves, as Paul lists, you know, are the things that are selfish and are the things that take and steal from others, because we're giving in to the prince of the power of the air. So our natural being, that's what we want to do. So holy Spirit works in us. We see the fruit working in us. We received. In other words, we've gone, okay, God, I need Holy Spirit in my life. I'm going to receive what Holy Spirit gives us. Now.
I'm going to be walking in that. And one of the things that you said a second ago, babe, is that, you know, you talked about how convicts us of sin and how it's that little conscience, the, Jiminy Cricket, you know, on your shoulder, where in a way, that's a simplified form, but in a way, that is really one of the major things Holy Spirit does is that he does convict us of sin and of righteousness. but also he leads us into righteousness so that we don't live in.
In that sin, that we don't live under that guilt, under that oppression of sin. But we are now being able to be transformed through God's mercy and grace, of giving the Holy Spirit to us, of now living a life free from that sin or free from that sin and that transformation of. Hey, I used to do this, now I no longer do that. Or I used to desire this. I no longer desire that. Not because I went through a twelve step program.
Right. But because I am a different person.
I am a different person because Holy Spirit changed me and transformed me into a different person.
And I think you see that. You see it really clearly with the testimony of Peter.
Yes.
In the gospels, you know, he literally overnight a different human being. But you don't see any accounts. You see the account of him denying Christ three times before the crucifixion. You don't see accounts of him ever bringing that back up again.
No.
You notice that he doesn't rehash that. He doesn't go, well, you know, I was the guy who did this, this, this and this. He. He just makes a break with who he was. Yep. and then his whole life is about who I am now in Christ. You see the same thing with Paul. He's like, listen, dude, I was, you know, I was highly educated. I was, you know, I was also a very zealous murderer, you know, on behalf of the father. But I thought, until he yanked me up and said, why are you doing this to
me? But you hear Paul just cutting himself away from that. That was a different man. That was Saul. I am now Paul. And I don't carry any of that baggage over into my new life. And that's another evidence of holy spirit in you. When you can sit there and go, you know what? That was me. But that wasn't me. That was who I was before. But now I have met Christ, and I understand that I am a new creation, and I am full of the holy spirit. And the guilt of that former doesn't even
shadow. Yeah, it's just dead to me.
Yep.
and, And that's a huge evidence of holy spirit in your life, making you renewed day by day.
Yep. There's a lot.
Yeah, there is.
It's a lot. And we are. We are two people who have lived two lives who are now walking, living the life through a holy spirit right now. And there are hundreds and thousands of testimonies out there, of people where holy spirit has dealt with them in different ways and talked through them and talked to them and changed them. And we would love, you know, if you want to share some of those testimonies with us, please let us know. You can email us at danathew two five
seven.com. and we would love to hear from you and hear what holy spirit has done in your life, how you came to know Holy Spirit and what the difference was before and after. And also, we just want to, encourage you if you're walking this christian life and you're kind of like going, man, I wish I knew what was going on because I think there's more. I think there's more to this life than just living this ritualistic thing of going to church and trying to be a good person.
But it just seems like I'm failing all the time or I keep falling back in habitual sin all the time. And I just want to encourage you. Holy Spirit has already been given, right? Holy Spirit is already laid out for you.
He is available.
You just need to receive and then listen to what he's going to teach you, what he's going to pour on you, which is that grace and mercy that God has and also restore you and transform you so that you can live a victorious, a powerful christian life. And, that's really what God wants for us.
So if you're one of those people that's listening and you're not sure if holy spirit is fully active in your life, if you have received him to that extent, you know, you believe in Jesus, but you're just not sure about this holy spirit thing, I would encourage you, you know, we didn't give you a three steps to receiving him, right? And we did that for a reason.
One of two things. Either get alone and just ask of the father, say, listen, you know, just like those disciples were sitting up in that upper room, I'm ready. I want to receive this. I see places where I am powerless. I see places where I stumble over the same things over and over again. I want to receive power, to walk fully in what you say is right. And I know I
need holy spirit to do that. So please, I sit here ready to receive, either that or somebody that you have observed in your life and you're like, wow, that person walks in the spirit. Go to them, talk to them, say, hey, listen, might be a weird ask, but would you put your hands on me and pray over me?
Right.
And then be open and willing to receive. The receptive heart is what God responds to.
Exactly. So, wow, a lot.
Barely even scratched the surface.
Yep. So, next week, we're going to continue on this vein of holy, spirit and seeing the Holy Spirit working in our lives. We're going to talk next week about how we've seen holy spirit active on the mission field. And we're going to talk a little bit more about Kenya. And I've got a couple stories I want to share, about Ecuador and how we've seen the Holy Spirit and power to do amazing, miraculous things in our lives and in the lives of other
people. So you're going to want to be here for that as we continue with this discussion about the role of the person of the Holy Spirit in our life. All right, babe.
So that's been. Trim the wick on the road.
Yeah. If this was, If there was too many distraction stuff, please let us know so that, you know, it's like, hey, guys, it was a little too loud, it was a little distracting. Let us know. And, Maybe won't do it diff. We'll do it differently next time, but, We kind of had a crazy idea, and we hope you enjoyed it.
So thanks for being along.
Yeah. And we'll see you next time. Okay.
Love you guys.
All right, love you.
Bye.