The Person of Holy Spirit: Being Counter-Cultural

When the people come, and it's the same people that we've been seeing for the last four years, five years, but they're still stuck in the same sin ruts that they were in when they got here, they're still stuck in the same messed up family circumstances. There's not healing and unity being built. We're still stuck in. Okay, well, we get together, but there's gossip that happens, and there's. You begin to see that, okay, it's a. It's successful,

Well, hello again, and welcome to the Trim the Wick podcast. I'm Dan.

And I'm Becky.

And we are with you again this week. We are hoping that you are having a great end of your summer and getting. Getting ready to go back to school.

All the back to school thing.

Oh, my gosh. There's just one advertisement after another. And can you believe that there's, like, pumpkin spice stuff out in August already too early. No.

Yeah, way too early.

Come on.

It's a thousand degrees outside. Still here.

Yeah. Throttle it back a little bit. No pumpkin spice in August, please. Well, that kind of leads us to something, what we want to talk about this week, and one of the things that we are just very much thinking about is this idea of when you are spirit filled, when you live by holy spirit, you are going to be countercultural. You are going to be against what the actual culture of society is. The kingdom is spirit filled and spirit led.

Right.

So when you're living kingdom culture, it's gonna be very different than what we see around us and what we see in just our day to day lives.

So do you mean if we're living spirit filled, we won't be doing pumpkin spice in August?

Well, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. So those of you who have already bought your pumpkin spice lattes, please repent and, get back into living by the spirit. And still. It's still lemonade season, folks. No, but seriously.

No, seriously, it is. You do find yourself going against the flow, and it gets really uncomfortable sometimes.

Even in church culture, because sometimes we equate just because it's church culture or it's a christian thing. We're hearing so many of these artists that are coming out now talking about the christian music industry and stuff and how almost demonic that upper management is and how the. The system works. And, you know, even a lot of the bands, they're not even christians, they don't even believe in Jesus. They have a positive message and they're being taken and cultivated and stuff like that.

But so it's not so much a difference in culture in the christian music industry. It's the same culture. It's the entertainment industry that looks for a market that puts profitable ideas out there for sale and just kind of put a, label on it. But it's not actually at its core any different than the rest of the industry culture.

Right. And we even see this in churches and we're seeing this a lot in just our society where even, even the things that we would label as good are not spirit filled, are not actually kingdom, good.

They're still, they're still of the culture of this world.

They're still of the culture of this world. They're just a little nicer or they've been polished a little bit, but it's still the culture of this world. One of the things that we've seen in our life is the difference of, between living a religious christian life to living a sold out, spirit filled life.

Yeah, it looks completely different and there's a big difference.

And, you know, I go back, one of the things that come out to me in the story of the New Testament is looking at the disciples and watching the disciples lives change as when they're with Jesus and when Jesus is away from them and they're by themselves, you know, going all the way back to the very beginning of the gospels where Jesus goes up on the mountain and he comes back down and, you know, the man's laying there or, the man is mad because his disciples can't cast a demon out, right.

Sorry.

Yeah. And they think they're gonna die. It even says in scriptures that they feel like they're gonna die. And then Jesus again wakes up and you see this over and over again through the gospels where the disciples, when Jesus is not either physically present or not, you know, right there in the middle of what's going on. You know, they get scared or they start to lean on their own understanding.

Which doesn't diminish the sincerity of the disciples.

No.

the disciples were sincerely trusting in who he was. They were following him to the best of their capacity. They loved him, they wouldn't leave him. And I think you see that juxtaposition in today's church, too, where there are very sincere people who are. Who have read the teachings of Jesus and who have decided that they want to follow him, and they're doing trusting to the best of their capacity.

Right.

But they haven't yet understood that there's a capacity beyond their own that needs to be at play.

Right. This idea of just coming to church is going to make it all right. This. If I just focus hard enough or if I do all the things, step one, step two, step three, step four, by the time I get to step five, I'm no longer going to be fighting this particular sin or I'm going to be over my anxiety or whatever. And it doesn't work that way. There's no process of stepping into the kingdom and to living spiritually. The way that the process is, is that you have to receive the Holy Spirit.

Right. It's not something you can build yourself up into. It's, you have to recognize that you don't have capacity and you need to receive his authority.

Right. And, you know, and I think about this when, you know, we were working in full time ministry and we had a successful ministry, you would call it successful. We kept growing and people were coming and we really did programs.

Well, listen, I can rock a formula.

Yeah. You know, if we know how to move people from, you know, this side of the building to that side of the building, and everybody gets there in the quickest amount of time. Well, we can figure that out.

You know, logistics, recruiting workers, you know, making it look good, sound good, be exciting. We can do that.

Right? So we were really good at administrating religious stuff and church stuff. On the surface, it would have looked like that we were very successful in what we were doing. But that was not kingdom building. And it was.

We did teach Jesus and we did.

Again, it was not spiritual level.

Right. To the best of our ability. We were doing what we perceived was right.

Right.

And we did teach Jesus and we did faithfully open the word and we did pray and we did love. But there was so much of our own stress and striving involved.

Right. Well, and I can remember like, if we did something that didn't produce, so we did an event and we were expecting, you know, 100 people to show up, and only 60 people showed up, it was devastating. We never went back and said, oh, we didn't pray enough. no, we didn't go back and go, okay, God, what did you, what was your purpose in this? We went back and we went, oh, we must have messed up in, somehow in our marketing. We must have messed up in

Right. You started doing market surveys and you.

Started doing market surveys. Well, why?

That's how we were trained to do it.

Exactly. And that's not spirit led at all.

Not even a little bit.

And I know where it sounds like we're harping on, this, but we're taking and we're explaining kind of where we came from and where a lot of churches are right now. One of the things that we're seeing is that we're seeing the frustration when.

Our programs fail or when, when our programs, from all exterior measures, right, from numbers, of attendance, from donations brought in, from return on investment. You know, we invested this much, and we had that many people come. Things that go on in our churches are succeeding on all of those

Right?

And the scripture promises that when Jesus walks in the room, people get transformed.

Right?

So what's happening?

Well, again, here's the thing is, I want to focus back on the disciples, because when the disciples, Jesus is arrested, he's crucified. The disciples run and hide. They, are no longer the transforming force or the Jesus army. They are now hiding because Jesus has been crucified and they are scared for their lives. It's the same pattern that we saw through the gospels that when Jesus was removed, the disciples lean on their own understanding, which led to being afraid and being

And Jesus even tells them that it's a benefit for you, that I go, because if I remain, he doesn't come, right? But the spirit is, again, it's me, but me always, right?

And so now Jesus raised from the dead, the disciples come out of the woodwork, you know, and they're like, oh, jesus is alive again. So we're going to hang out with him some. And then Jesus goes away and he says, now, listen, go. And the holy spirit's going to come, and he's gonna give you power and authority. He goes away. Acts, chapter two happens. Holy spirit comes down and boom. You see now what it's like to be spirit filled.

They're literally different people.

Completely different. Peter, who is denying Christ, is now standing in the middle of the marketplace proclaiming who Jesus is.

He's not afraid of anybody. He's not afraid of arrest. He's not afraid of, it's not like they're that far removed from the crucifixion.

It's just been a couple weeks. It's still volatile, right? You know, they still could be arrested any day. And we see in the next few chapters of acts, the next few days, they actually do get arrested over and over again.

The religious and political powers that be are still the same powers that be, and they're still pretty, unhappy. Right, with Jesus's followers.

But you start seeing how the difference between living a religious life and living a spirit filled life and how that is going to be so different. And what we have, I believe, in our society, and what we dealt with is we kept trying to manufacture a spirit life. How do we in our house, put up enough things to remind us of Jesus? How do we put up enough, you know, billboards in our house to remind us of Jesus? How. How do we get enough clothing, t shirts and hats and bumper stickers to remind us

You revert to whatever's natural.

Exactly. You start acting like Jesus isn't there anymore. This is, I think, the whole thing of why it's so important that you've got to have holy spirit living in your life. You've got to acknowledge. And you've got to live by the spirit. And that is what carries you. That is what gives you power and boldness. That is what's going to start transforming you. Because just like the disciples were completely transformed, you saw in the upper room, you see in people's lives how they were

We did.

For years, we served in church. We were believers, we were strong. We would speak about Jesus everywhere we went. We were strong. But, you know, when the storms of life came up, we struggled.

Yeah, well, I mean, I was your stereotypical church girl. You know, I won the Bible drills and I had the verses all memorized and I mean, I can quote passages upon passages and I knew the word just like the disciples. I was walking in close proximity to Jesus. I had at a young age, nine years old, I had prayed the prayer and said, I want to follow

Right.

It was one that was full of rules and formulas. And this is how you keep from temptation. This is how you keep from falling. You, put all these guardrails into your life and all these sets of rules and lists and you put chains on yourself instead of surrendering all of that and going, I don't have the capacity to walk the christian life by myself. I receive you. I receive the gift of salvation through the blood

Yeah.

But, the, the second part, the receiving of the spirit, we didn't talk about that.

Yeah. Ah.

And so my christian life was one of guardrails and rules, not, one of power.

Well, I think it's so interesting, you know, as we say, this is that we always look down at the Pharisees, you know, because there was what, ten, commandments and, you know, and then how many rules did the Pharisees?

613.

So they turn ten into 613 and we do the same way we do. We put all these rules and regulations, all these things up so that we don't sin. You know, the whole purpose of all those rules, from the Pharisees, is to stop you from sinning. That was the whole purpose of all those.

And it just creates bondage.

And it just creates complete bondage. And it's funny how we point at them and say they were bad and they were over religious, but we do the same thing. We just don't talk about your oxen and not working on Saturday or whatever, but we'll put rules in regulations of, you can't swear or say dirty words or you can't know, drink a sip of alcohol because now you're going to be falling into.

Right. Because you need those guardrails if your heart isn't transformed. Right. So that's. That's what my christian walk was. But then in later years, the more I was in the word, the more Holy Spirit worked with me. Right. Because one of. One of the things that Jesus promised the disciples was that when holy spirit comes, he will teach you and instruct you in all things. And so. And he will call to your remembrance the things that I've taught you, and then he

Yep.

And eventually got to the place where it was like, oh, wow. All this stuff I've been trying to do on my own and being frustrated and feeling not good enough and feeling really at times, very trapped and penned in by the rules that I had to live by in order to not put my foot in a mess.

None.

of that was necessary. All of that bondage, all of those chains. If Holy Spirit indwelled me and was capable of giving me the mind of Christ and purifying my heart and convicting me of sin so that I didn't walk there, I could let go of all of these chains that I was under. And it was so freeing when I finally went, you know what? I have already received and accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. I have accepted

Yeah. This is that stepping into spirit filled life right to where that's the freedom it is. We get multiple layers of freedom when we come to Christ. You get that freedom from sin. You also get God's grace and mercy that he gives on you, but he also gives you that grace and mercy to no longer be hung up into that sin that you have been forgiven of already.

Right.

So now you no longer have to live in that shadow. So not only did you get forgiveness, you no longer have to live in that shadow. So you don't have to fall back into those sins, that sin no longer.

Because they're not yours anymore.

No longer is yours. you are a new creature, a new creation.

Right.

But the other thing is now you have a freedom to live this abundant life that Jesus talks about without worrying about what once was, you know, the sinhouse. And the thing is, is also you don't have to worry about, am I going to fall back into. Is it going to lead me astray? There's this idea, and we're going to. I'm going to talk a little bit on, two sides here. You know of

Right.

The other thing is, is that he's going to guide you into a new life and into a new understanding. So that's not even appealing to you anymore.

Right. You're not drawn there.

Exactly. So you now have a freedom to live your life without looking over your shoulder. This idea that when you come to Christ, that now you have to live all these rules and regs to prove your love for Jesus, it's so the opposite, right?

Who the Son has set free is free indeed. And we quote that. We say that. But so frequently, people who earnestly are wanting to follow Christ aren't living in that freedom. And it's because they haven't grasped that it's not just the blood and the resurrection of salvation. It is also the infilling and empowerment of the spirit that's part of the walk of the disciple, is walking in that fullness of the spirit.

Yeah. So why did we even mention this whole thing at the beginning where we were talking about how the church and everything else is that because what's happened and what I see is that we've tried to build a culture, a church culture, a bubble, culture that would keep us from falling away and keep.

Us from the icky bad world out.

Keep the icky bad, you know? But what it is is it's still the world's culture because it's got a.

Different label on it.

It's got a different label on it, and that's kind of what I was trying to point out to you. That was what I was trying to reference when I was talking about the church culture and how all we've done is just repackage the world culture to make it look better. But it's not spirit. Jesus didn't die on the cross to give us new life and give us ownership into the kingdom of heaven so that we lived a prettier, fallen culture. He gave us new life so that we could live in a kingdom culture entirely

It has different rules. It had fewer rules, in fact.

Yeah.

Just. Just one, right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, you know, too, love God and love people.

You know, there's this idea or this thing of holy spirit being this mystical thing or power or whatever, and people are afraid of. Yeah. And there's a lot of confusion there on it. But really, using Jesus's own words, really what holy spirit is person that indwells us, that allows us to live, number one, a spirit filled life, but also a kingdom filled life and a kingdom culture. Life.

Right. He is the one who reminds us of the words that Jesus spoke. He's the one who puts the seal of ownership on our life, that we are bought with the price that Jesus paid. and nobody gets to touch us.

Yeah.

You know, he's. He's the one who reminds us as we're beginning to walk forward, he's the one who reminds us that he is with us always.

Right.

And that over and over and over again, we're told not to fear.

Yeah.

That is the power.

Yeah.

That it's. Yes. There are the signs and wonders that. That also accompany. That we see in the book of acts that we see in present day believers.

Yes.

And those things shouldn't scare us, but those things flow out of understanding that a spirit filled life is simply having the power and authority of God active in your life to overcome all those things that you used to have, rules, regulations, guardrails, and chains to keep you away from.

Right. Because living a spirit filled life is not a religious life. No, not at all. We want to encourage you with that. We know what it's like to live that christian religious life.

it's a grind.

And we also know now what it's like to allow holy spirit to live through us and to live a spirit filled life and a life that is transformed and a life that has power and fruit and boldness and is completely controlled by him. And we want to encourage you if you've never. If you've never lived that type of life, we really want you to seek out holy spirit. Allow him. It's already been given. It's already been

We're not wanting to stop this here today.

No.

So in coming episodes, we're going to address. So how do you get that? Like, acts two was acts two. Pentecost. Was Pentecost. I mean, they had tongues of flame sitting on their heads. Is that. Is that how that works now? Is that, you know, or is it just a gift that I choose to receive?

Yeah.

And, so we're going to be addressing some of the hows and the what does it look like? And then what is that life like? How do you listen for what he's saying to you? How do you know when it's him and not your own inner thoughts? How do you determine that? How do you learn discernment? All of those things? We're going to be addressing some of those in upcoming episodes and helping you to get to know holy spirit as we've learned to get to know him.

Yes. And, this was a journey for us.

Yeah. Ah.

But we know now we can look back and see all the milestones and see all the points where the Holy Spirit has spoken to us and taught us, allowed us forgiveness, has gone and done exactly what Jesus said was a comforter to us, was a teacher to us, and also gave us boldness and power.

And there's also been some, some of the things, pieces of power that frighten people. Yeah, we've had experience in some of those, too.

Yep.

we understand what speaking in tongues is now. We didn't used to. We understand what healing is now. We didn't used to. We understand what miracles and signs and wonders are and that they're not obsolete. God still does that stuff.

Yes.

But the beauty of walking with Holy Spirit is that it's simply onward steps of discipleship. And just as Jesus looked at his disciples and said, listen, guys, I've got some stuff to teach you that you're just not ready for yet. So I'm going to send Holy Spirit, okay? Holy spirit teaches with that same grace and kindness and compassion towards us.

Yep.

He says, listen, I've got the fullness of the godhead here, and you're just not ready for all that yet. Sweet Pete.

Yeah.

So I'm going to walk with you in the same way that Jesus walked with the disciples. But I'm not distant, ever. I'm not asleep ever. I'm right here. Present always.

We would love to hear from you. If you have a, journey story or journey testimony, send that to us. You can email us at danathew two five seven.com. and we would love to hear your story of your journey, how you receive holy spirit and how holy spirit has worked in your life and where you're seeing that kingdom culture in your life. Because ultimately, we are children of the kingdom.

That's right.

And everything that we live is going to be very different to what we see in the world around us.

So join us in our upcoming episodes. We'll discuss this more together and delve into some of that.

Yep. And we are looking forward to sharing some of our stories where we have seen holy spirit work in our life and in the lives of others around us.

So from this week to next week, ask him. He's really good at answering. If you haven't experienced Holy Spirit, if you doubt that he's real, if you're not sure that he's actually like a personal thing that you can have a relationship with, ask him. it is the father's joy to answer yes. When we seek him, we will find him.

Yes. Well, that about does it for us this week. We're going to look forward to seeing you guys next week as we continue our discussion on the person of the Holy Spirit. If you want to learn more about what we do, and if you would love to support what we're doing here at, trim the wick, you can go to our website, it's Matthew two five seven.com. and you'll be able to see what we're doing and all the

Love you. Bye.