I'm giving you my blessing to go do with it, and you're going to be amazed with what the outcome is. I'm going to stand here and support you. I'm going to encourage you. I'm going to bless what you're doing, but I don't have to micromanage it. I don't have to. Like you said, I don't have to walk along next to you as you go to each person and individually break it for them. You guys could do it. I've blessed this.
Well, hello again and welcome back to the Trim the Wick podcast. I'm, Dan.
And I'm Becky.
And we are with you again this week. And we wanted to kind of dive into a thing and a topic because we really believe that everyone is a leader.
Absolutely.
And that no matter where you are in life, you are leading people in some way.
Right. Somebody's looking at you, somebody's watching you. Somebody's taking little nuggets that they see in your life and going, that's. That's good. I'm gonna do that.
Right. And.
Or that's really awful. And I'm not gonna lead like that.
Well, and that's the thing. It's. You know, there is good leadership and bad leadership, but if you're. If you're doing anything and you're in front of people, or even your family or friends or whatever, you have influence. You do lead. You're not born a leader. You learn to be a good leader.
Right.
But everyone does, in their way, in one way or another, lead people.
Absolutely.
And so one of the things that we were looking at and we wanted to kind of talk about today is that who was the ultimate leader, who was the best leader of all? And that was Jesus.
Sunday school answer. I know, but it's still the truth, right?
You know, it's like, okay, okay, little Billy, you know? Yeah, it's Jesus. I know. Jesus has been the answer for every question, and it's still is. But honestly, there are so many qualities that Jesus shows as a leader because he was leading a large group of people, but he was also leading that small inner core, his disciples, and who would later become the apostles. And so you get to see how to be an effective leader, as in giving out a message, encouraging, building up, disciplining, and
correcting. And you get to see it on a large scale with a large group of people. And also on a one on one scale and a small
group scale. Right. And this story that we want to talk about today and we are going to kind of do something a little bit different because we are going to go right to the scripture and kind of break down a passage here as we are talking about Jesus leadership qualities and him being a leader is that he's going to deal with the large crowd and the small crowd all in this one little story.
Right.
Mark, chapter six. It's one of my favorite stories. it's actually one of my favorite chapters in all the Bible, because it starts, off with the disciples going out and then you get to hear about, obviously, the death of John the Baptist, which is not so great. but then you have this story which is Jesus feeding the 5,000.
Yeah. It's stuck right. Kind of there in the middle of the chapter.
Yep, it's right in the middle. And there's a great. There is so much teaching and for years, I can remember, you know, going to church and Sunday school and everything else, when you always heard of Jesus feeding the 5,000, what was it about? It was about, you know, giving your all.
Right. It was about, you give everything you have to Jesus. The five loaves and the two fish. That's right.
Whatever the little that he had that.
You have, he can multiply it.
Give it to God, give it to Jesus. He'll multiply it, whatever you have. Well, that is a story that's in here. That is a lesson that is in.
Here, and it's valid.
but I think if you look at Jesus leadership in this little passage here, you see so much of who Jesus is. And we kind of want to break this down because, you know, like we were saying, everyone leads. And I would rather be a good leader than a bad leader.
Can I. Can I interject real quick there? Because I think what you said about how we read this passage speaks to something that we've addressed before in blogs and maybe once or twice here. But it's really important when you're reading the word of God to understand why God wrote it.
Right.
He wrote it not to tell you what you ought to be doing so much as to reveal to you who he is.
Yes.
And I think that thing that we all grew up with of this passage about the feeding of the 5,000 is about the little boy who gave his all, who gave his whole lunch, who didn't hold back. Yes, it is about that. But God wants to show us who he is.
Yes.
You know, he sent Jesus to walk among us so that we could see who he was, so that we could then follow. Well, so little aside there. So as you're reading through the scripture, you know, grab that.
Yeah, well, and that is the meat.
Right. Allow him to show you who he is.
And a lot of these, the stories and a lot of the lessons, a lot of the things in scripture, there's that surface quick hit message that you can get, but then there's always meat underneath. And then there's even more right underneath that.
It is a living, breathing word of God. Okay, so back to where you were going with. No.
So back in Mark, chapter six, we get to see this. And Jesus has been with you, the disciples and the apostles. And it says they returned to him, verse 30. And they talk about everything that they had done and taught.
That's a lot of talking.
Yeah. So they kind of give him this download because he had just sent them off to go do some teaching and stuff. And, so they give him the download of everything that's going on. And he's like, let's go away and let's go rest a while. And as they're doing that, they actually come across a crowd. It says this. This is crazy. Verse 34. When he went ashore, he saw a great crowd and he had compassion on them because they were
like sheep without a shepherd. And that's where I want to start, is that the first thing of a good leader is you need to have compassion for the people. You need to have compassion for those who are following behind you. I've heard in church work, and I've even said it and it's been wrong and I've repented from it, is that, you know, ministry would be great if it didn't have all these people in it.
And we feel that way sometimes. But feelings lie. Right?
Exactly. And there are times when you're beaten down because working with people's hard.
Yeah.
But it should never remove your compassion for them, because the reason why you're doing what you're doing, the reason why you're leading them is because you want them to go somewhere.
Right.
You know, and that's the thing is if you're leading with going. I'm leading in a way so that other people prop me up and make me feel good and make me. And make me the better person on the top. I'm on the top of the hill. You know, that's not a good leader.
No, it's not.
That's a selfish, motivated leader.
Well, in talking. Talking about the unselfishness that he exhibited here. I mean, his cousin had just been killed. Yeah, right. The apostles are all coming to him and they're in verse 31, before he goes ashore and has compassion. In verse 31, it's talking about he and the disciples. The reason that he called them to go away to rest for a while is because many were coming and going to
them and they had had no leisure even to eat. So think about that when you're in a leadership position and you're going about the tasks of whatever your work is. Right. If you're a leader in business or if you're a leader in your home. Speaking from a place of a mom who at one time had four littles running underfoot, there were lots of times when I hadn't had leisure even to eat yet. You know, those of you that are out there that are parenting
young children, you will. You will connect with the whole thing of, I haven't fed myself, but the kids have eaten. I haven't bathed in three days because, you know, I gotta do bath time for them. This is the place that Jesus was coming from. He was exhausted. He was under emotional distress. And yet it wasn't about
what was going on with him. His circumstances and his emotions and his need for a break didn't eliminate the way that he was able to look at people and have compassion on them and see where they were and commiserate with that as well. And I think we lose that sometimes. We get so wrapped up in, well, well. But they shouldn't need my leadership because, you know, right now I need a break. They can live without me for a minute or two.
Yeah.
And Jesus didn't do that to us.
Yeah.
He still retained his right view of where those people were. They didn't become an interruption and a nuisance to him.
Exactly. And that's where I think in that word, compassion, you know, when you have compassion for something and compassion for someone, you're gonna go above and beyond for them.
Yep.
You know, you're gonna always see the best for them and put them before yourself. And you see that here. So, you gotta have compassion for the people you're leading here. The second thing is still in that same verse in 34, it says, and he began to teach them many things. A, good leader teaches.
Yes.
Okay. It doesn't say he is barking instructions at them to tell them what they need to do to get their lives right.
Right.
That's not what it's saying he did here. It's saying that he is teaching them. In other words, he is taking the time, like a teacher, to break things down, make it understandable, make it digestible.
Allowing them to ask Questions?
Yeah, because that's what good teachers do.
Right, Right.
He is showing this compassion because he is now, teaching them. So it's that. First thing, he's compassionate. Second thing, he's teaching them, and he is just kind of like, instructing them and helping them along, because, like he said, they were like sheep without a shepherd. as a good teacher, you're going to help guide. You're going to not only give them knowledge, but help them to discover knowledge.
Right. Well, and I think that's, again, it's a building thing. You know, first he goes and he has compassion on them. He has emotions towards them. Right, right. He sees them. He is concerned with their state. But then it's not just this passing concern. It's not just this, oh, oh, I can really. I can empathize with where they are. but I'm on my way to my retreat over here.
I'm gonna throw them a bone or.
Two and then just keep going. No, it's an. I can empathize with where they are. I have compassion on them. And because I care, I'm not willing to leave them as a sheep without a shepherd. I'm gonna start teaching them. And that's in our leadership roles. We have to make that transition, too, of going, okay, I'm tired. I had tasks ahead. I had plans for my day. But here's this person that's in front of me right now, or this group of people that's in front of me right now that I see
a need in them. I have the capacity to meet that need. And so I'm going to interrupt my own plans, take a breath a minute and come and reach out over here and actually meet their need. Not just recognize the need, but actually do something to meet the need.
Yep. You know, as leaders, this is what we need to be doing. I think of my good coaches that I've had, you know, through the years.
You've had a lot of them.
yeah, especially. I mean, even going back to.
You did all the youth sports.
Yeah. As a youngster and going through different youth sports and stuff is, the ones I remember. The coaches I remember were the ones that got down with me on my level and made sure and taught me, you know, put your hand here, or this is how you step, or this is how you kick the ball this way and things like that. And, you know, those are the great leaders, are the ones that are teachers and that can teach you.
and that's exactly what we see Jesus doing.
Yes. So we Keep going here. And it kind of changes from the large group teaching and the large group compassion here. And then we see this in verse, 35, we're going to keep going here. It says it grew late. And then his disciples come to him. This is a desolate place, and the hour is late. And I love the disciples. They are something else. Verse 36, send them away to the surrounding countryside and villages so that they can buy themselves something to eat.
Verse 37, Jesus answers them, you give them something to eat. And I love that. This is the third quality, I believe, of a great leader is a great leader challenges you. a great leader is going to be someone who has shown you the way. They've taught you the way. But then they don't keep doing it all themselves. They don't keep hiding you and going, oh, you're not ready. You're. They see the moment when you need to be challenged, and they challenge you.
Right?
I can look back and remember a time when I was working with a company, and I had a supervisor above me who literally, I came to them with something, with an issue, and they literally looked at me and said, do it. You go do it. And the next thing I know is I spent the next two to three months developing an entirely new business plan for a thing, learning how to talk with other people and other, professions and chefs and other people just to get this business plan together. And it pushed me,
it challenged me. But I learned so much, and I grew so much because I had a supervisor that challenged me when I came up to them with a problem.
Right? And you see Jesus doing that, and. But he doesn't do it in a vacuum. Right. He had already modeled this for them.
Yeah.
He came in, he saw and recognized need, Right? People that are like sheep without a shepherd. He had an emotional reaction to that. Wow. I'm concerned about that need. And then he met that need and taught them. And now the disciples are kind of sort of picking up, right? They've looked out and had compassion on the people and gone. They're hungry. We need to let them do something about that. And Jesus is kind of going, good on you. You
got the first part. You see the need. You have compassion on the need, but you missed how I handled. When I saw a need, I met the need. So you. You've seen it in me, and you've been relying on me to be the one that meets those needs. Guess what? You have that capacity, too, right? And it transfers that. It becomes where it's not just instruction anymore. Now it's come into the practicum part of it.
Right.
And he leads them to go to entertain the thought that perhaps they had access to the same capacities that Jesus had access to. He begins showing them.
Right.
that.
Yeah.
That they are more than they believed that they were.
As we're talking about the qualities as we are going through our life and we are leading other people. You know, one of the things I've seen in downfalls of companies and people is that they never hand it off. They never challenge the people they're leading.
Right.
They end up just keep pulling them along. And this is one of the things that I. I see a, struggle in a lot of the, Sunday school things that we see in churches and the discipleship programs that we see in churches where there's never. It's always, you just go from the next class to the next class, the next class, the next class, the next class. And you never make that jump to going, oh, I got all this knowledge so that I can now start leading my own class or
I can start leading my own group. You just keep going from one thing to the next to the next to the next, to the next. And you become, you know, fat with knowledge and teaching. But you never get challenged to actually step out and do it yourself.
Right. And what we see through the scripture is that leadership, spiritual leadership, and everything else that comes out of that business leadership, family leadership, all of it is meant to be deeply practical. And Jesus never teaches something that he doesn't then expect you to put into practice.
Correct.
And that needs to be the way we lead. We should never be teaching something endlessly and going, I'm just looking for your intellectual assent that what I'm teaching is correct.
Yeah.
Ah, I should be teaching so that then you can go walk in what was taught.
Right.
And I need to give you opportunity to do that, because I need. Right. Everything that we do in the body of Christ is supposed to be for the building up of one another, for the building up of the kingdom of God. And if we just keep everybody close to us and under us, where we feel good about what we're being taught and we're getting constant, you know, affirmation of, oh, yes, what you're teaching is wonderful. And what you're. If we never go, okay, but go do something with it. You know,
go live it out. Go put it into practice. Get out from under my wings. I mean, Jesus is, at this point, he is looking forward, knowing what's coming for him.
Yeah.
And knowing that these guys need to be able to stand on their own two feet, in the power and authority of the Holy Spirit when he's no longer in front of them. That's the reality that we all face as parents. We are eventually not going to be in our kids lives anymore as business people. Our jobs may change, our positions may change, we may leave the company, the company may close. The people that we train up need to be able to stand in the things that they were
taught. And the way that they learn to do that is by being challenged to use it.
He continues because he challenges them and they fire back and they're like, wait a second, shall we go buy them bread with our 200 denarii? What should we do?
What do you want us to do with this?
I love. Again, this is Jesus opening their eyes. This is that teacher, this is that challenging, you know, that level of going, open your eyes and see what you have.
Right.
Don't, don't look at the one aspect. Don't look at the narrow thing. That you have money and you have to buy food with this money. No, look, look at the bigger thing. What we have, all these people here, what do they have? What are the resources around you? Open your eyes and see. And, they finally realize, well, we have some fish and we got some bread, but it's not much.
Right. This whole section, the disciples are diminishing and dismissing their own capacities.
Exactly. And they are basically going, well, what we have just ain't enough.
Yeah.
You know, and how many times in life when as a leader, I know, working with people, you kind of encourage them, you kind of challenge them and they go, oh, we really can't do that, or we don't have enough. You know, I hear it all the time from my guys in other countries. Oh, if we only had a better sound system, we would be able to get more people in the church. it has nothing to do with a sound system. No, you know, there's so many companies, oh,
if I only had this capital. Oh, if I only had this printer.
Or whatever it is, whatever the tool is that you think you don't have, what do you have?
Exactly. And use that. and that's exactly what happens, is that they gather this food, Jesus blesses it, and then it doesn't say here that in verse 41 that Jesus puts the loaves and fish into his pocket and then starts handing it out to every individual.
Nope, that is not what happened.
That's not what happens at all. Because you think about it, there's 5,000 people there 5,000 men.
Right. Plus women and children.
Plus women and children. So, it could be as many as 15,000 people were here. You know, maybe even more or so if he fed everyone, just him, by the time he gets to the end of the line, he would have to start feeding the front of the line again because it would have been three or four days would have gone by and the people would have been hungry again.
Right.
You know, so he breaks the bread, he puts it, and he tells the disciples to put it in the baskets. And then he tells the disciples to go hand it out.
Right.
And that's, I think, is our fourth quality. And a good leader, A, good leader is always going to hand to the ones they're leading and tell them, go do it.
Right. What Jesus brings to this equation is his blessing.
Yes.
Right. They take what they have, they put it in Jesus hands, he blessed it and returned it to them and said, okay, go do your thing. You know, a good leader will, once they've given that challenge and their subordinate, their child, their co worker, whatever the positioning is. Right. Comes to them and says, well, you told me to go see what I had and this is what I've got. Then a good leader takes it and blesses it and says, okay, great, good job. Way to take inventory, and see what you
had available to you. Now I'm giving you my blessing.
Yeah.
To go do with it. And you're going to be amazed with what the outcome is. I'm going to stand here and support you, I'm going to encourage you, I'm going to bless what you're doing, but I don't have to micromanage it. I don't have to. Like you said, I don't have to walk along next to you as you go to each person and individually break it for them. You guys could do it. I've blessed this.
Yeah. And you know, going back to my story of when I was challenged. By my supervisor, my leader challenged me to go do it. I put the whole report together. Took me a couple months, put it all together, and then she goes, okay, go do it. Go present the report. Go get it passed. Go get it done.
Well, and I remember you coming home when you had been told that and you were intimidated. Oh, yeah, you were massively intimidated. Because. Okay, let me. We're gonna. Without naming names, I'm gonna put it in some context here. You were working at a worldwide fortune $500 billion company.
Right.
You were at one of their flagship places.
Yes.
And you were talking About a complete overhaul of how they did business at one of these flagship locations. In this meeting that you were told to go take yourself and present your ideas as your own and pitch. This overhaul was with the vice presidents of this thing.
Yeah.
And you came home and you were like, ah, yeah. You were a little bit like the disciples who had been told, well, you go do something with it. Right.
Exactly. How am I gonna feed these people?
And. But because of your supervisor saying, right, good. You did a great job. You. You did the research. You found what was available to us. You consulted with the people who were going to be impacted. You put together a great plan, stamp of approval, Giving it my blessing. Go run with it.
Yep.
And you went and ran with it at this meeting among the VPs, and you took their $14 million location and made it a $40 million location.
Well, yeah, And. Yeah. And it was intimidating.
Yeah.
But I can look back and go, because of that supervisor. Because that leader challenging me, having compassion on me, you know, directing me, and then giving me the opportunity, it really kind of changed my path while I was at that company.
And even to today, you know, there are a lot of things I look back and lean on because I learned from her and from that whole experience as good leaders, you know, following this pattern that Jesus has given us, that we are to have compassion for the people that we're leading. We need to teach them, instruct them, and help them and guide them, or to challenge them and then give a blessing and let them go do what they're supposed to do. I see that as. That is being a true leader.
And what's the outcome of that? You see the outcome of that in this 5,000 people are fed. Disciples learn and are. I use this term, with gloved hands a bit. But the disciples were empowered.
Yeah.
To stand in. Oh, we've been following Jesus, and he wasn't kidding that if we follow him, the same power and authority that he walks in, we get to walk in the same spirit that he walks in. We walk in. So you see this. If good leaders will lead the way Jesus did.
Yes.
Everybody involved benefits and is built up and the kingdom has grown.
Yep.
Isn't that what we want?
And that's exactly. I believe that's what you want, and that's what we want from our leadership, and that's what you want from a good leader.
It's what we want in our families. It's what we want in our businesses. It was. It's what we want in our churches.
Yeah. So this week, guys. Everyone leads. Yes, but be an intentional leader. Learn how to lead like Jesus led. Help your people have compassion, encourage challenge, send them out, let them do the things they need to do, and everyone is blessed.
Yeah.
So, guys, thank you so much for hanging out with us this week. We love just diving into the word and pulling out the meat. You know, Jesus said that we were going to live a life that was abundant and that is full. And to do that, I believe, is that you just dive in and you have to get the meat. You know, milk is good. Milk is good for a while, but you really have to get the meat.
And, you have to find out who Jesus is, who God is, if you are going to follow him.
Yep. okay. Well, thank you guys again for hanging out with us this week. We love you all. We'll see you guys next week.
Hope you've got some testimonies of some good leadership coming back.
That would be awesome. Okay, love you. Bye.