The Lowdown on Increasing Your ‘ETF IQ’

and a half in and then it shut down. It went dark for like a year and a half. They shut all the half an hour shows down that were specialty. They slowly started them back up after we came back to the office, and so when they were looking to redo it, there was some shifts in personnel, and so they made a new iteration of etf i Q with Matt Miller, Katie Greyfield and myself, and I'm Matt and Katier are sort of like the main anchors. I'm sort

of like the weatherman or the commentary guy. I do some special work at the beginning of a couple of segments and sort of provide. I ask a few questions, but I see myself more like a specialist and they're sort of more generalist. And I think it's a goocambo. And the show's every Monday at one pm. It's a half an hour by Fast Live. Yeah. Live TV is interesting. I mean, unlike this, where I can mess up and we can edit out. You have to just roll through

and keep talking. Special shout out to Magnus Hendrickson, who's our producer and has been our producer of Trillions for a while. We kept them busy with this episode because there's a fair amount of better thing. Thanks Magnus, and I just want to speak in the shout outs. Obviously, the three of us are on the air, we bring on guests, but behind the scenes, the other people who are you know, spend a lot of their time working on the show to Mareaci Ratika Gupta, Maureen Lawler, Kieran

Buchanan and Alex Soto. And then sometimes we'll have if some one of us is out, like a h Basket will fill in or Kaylee lines. So it's a show where a lot of people work on it every week, and I'm sure they do many other things. This is just one part of their job. There's only half an hour show, but we do our best to put in you know, good guests, good topics, and also a little bit of improvisation. We don't over prepare. I think in the first Iteration show, I found myself really over preparing.

I wrote the whole script out. I think we did that this podcast. We would overscript at the beginning. Now I've learned to trust my instincts and a little have more improv and let it feel a little more organic. And I think we've we've done a good job at that. I think, Okay, so what are we gonna hear today

on Trillions? So we're gonna bring on Matt Miller and Katie And I've basically teed up about six clips that I think sort of represent some topics and guests about the show and also some of the quirks of Katie and Matt that I think come across. And you know, we're just sort of like some of the highlights basically

from the first year. Some big names in here. Yeah, you know, we get some big names, and then I also think we get names that are big names later, Like I remember we had Kathy Wood before the run of all of Kathy Woods ETFs. Yeah, totally. I mean I used to when we first had et F i Q I would try to promote it internally. Is that

this show's really not just about ETFs. It's tomorrow's stars today, sort of like MTV's one hundred niney minutes or hundred twenty minutes where you'd go and watch Sunday Night, like you know, eleven PM, and you'd see like you'd see like Nirvana before they went mainstream. I feel as though we're we're getting were early because a lot of ETF fishers who put out ETFs get some assets. That's where the money's going. And these people are going to be the stars of tomorrow in a lot of cases. But

we still will always sometimes get a current star. But Kathy's case, I think she's a star who was on the ETF show early. Perth Tolls another one. There are definitely some people we get early and they become they branch out then then you see them all over Bloomberg TV and all the shows. Okay, joining us on this episode, we've got Matt Miller of Bloomberg TV, along with Katie Greifield, who's a regular on Trillions and a reporter with Bloomberg News,

this time on trillions. Highlights of Year one from ETF Katy Matt, welcome back to trains. Thank you, thrilled of you here. It's my first time. Actually, oh I have been here many times. You lucky, long overdue. I've been a long time listener, so thank you for great you as a first time caller, Eric, How do you want to do this? I pulled five or six clips that I think we're kind of highlights of the year, might get Katie and Matt talking, So we can start with

the first one if you want. Okay, here we go. So the first clip is from the very first guest on the very first show. Can you guys remember who that was? Holly Farm said yes, So here here she is talking about active ets, which has become a huge issue for us. In a theme in the show where we look at our core investor base, there are trillions of dollars of assets still in actively managed solutions that

haven't moved to index. So I think what that tells me is there's a clear space for active in ETFs at the core and that is squarely where we think our investors and our clients will use our products. She was not wrong, right. I'd say, if there's one ETF that we've talked about the most other than Spy all year long, it's ben jepy. Am I wrong about that Jetpy definitely because it took in so much money. Since it's like the new arc in terms of flows, Can I just toot our own horns for a little bit.

The fact that we had Capital group on like immediately after they launched their first ETFs, and the fact that we were focused on active I mean, to Matt's point, we've been talking about it for a year straight, and I mean, Holly really put it very well that you have trillions of dollars in active funds that haven't made their way to ETFs yet, and that's exactly what we've seen over the past year. It was prescient for sure.

I thought active now takes in like thirty forty percent of the flows and they make up four percent of the assets. Huge for now. Yeah, I was gonna say, does that continue? Do you think that continues? Yeah, because there's still so many trillions and active mutual funds. A lot of it's just the migration over, it's not new money. That's a little bit of the behind the scenes. It's

not like somebody's waking up. Oh give me active. I think a lot of it's people who were in active mutual funds, like the ETF rapper better you know the other thing. I just want to say, we're gonna have a little This can be a little bit of a rivalry here. We've got two sides of Eric here, the et more. Yeah, to be fair, our show, to be fair, our show is shorter and we are shallower. Yeah. Straight, We don't get extremely shallow people. But there's something about

live TV that just gets the blood flow. And there's something special about you love adrenaline. Yeah, you love live television. But you can't you definitely can't go as deep. Yeah here, you can also make mistakes here and like just edit it out like you just basically have to move on on TV, like employee Magnus as our producer. Okay, Clip two, Okay, clip two is this is Matt This is this first C block guest where we drilled down into an ETF this you know who that was Katie well Hershey, wow,

photographic memory over here. Okay, that was like a big deal. I had a photographic memory twenty years ago. You know, so Will Hershey was talking about met V and this is a great clip because sometimes on the show, I'll kind of chat with Matt ahead of time before that we go to air, and I'll just give him some like inside Baseball and he'll go right on air with it. So I told him about the MeTV ticker sale to Mark Zuckerberg, and Will did not want this brought up.

So go ahead, you know, let me soften you up with a few questions first and then hit you at the hard one. But I'll just go ahead and ask you sold the ticker Meta to Mark Zuckerberg. I guess he called you up and said, will you know I'll give you like your own Caribbean island? What did you get for that? You know, I'm actually probably gonna plead the fifth on that one. What I will say is changing from Meta to met V I think eliminated some

of the confusion in the market. When Facebook changed their name to Meta, that was truly a validation of the theme for us, and we're seeing investors play with their money. Wait a sophomone up there. I was going to but I felt like, you know, we only have a half hour, and if you take out commercial breaks, it's more like twenty two minutes. So why beat around the bush right right to the jugular exactly. So he got his own G five fifty now or G six fifties something like.

He got his own private jet for selling Mark Zuckerberg the meta ticker. And what's great about that is he had his own canned answer. But Matt puts so much of what people are really thinking in the question that everything is out there now. Because you knew Will wasn't going to really do much with that, he said his little thing and then and wanted to go away. I remember after that happened, when it was announced they were actually changing the ticker, so many people asked me for

a number. Oh how much did he get? We never quite got it out of him, Do you know Eric? I think Eric knows. There were rumors. I think we're twenty twenty five million. I don't know if that's what I thought as well. I heard twenty five million. You can buy an island with that, right somewhere. I think you can buy a jet with that, and then you can just go to whichever island. You have to have

multiple bank accounts. He's still working though, Like so, I don't know, if I got twenty five million, I might just leave the ends with the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars FDIC insurance limit. You'd have to open a ton of bank accounts. It still just makes me astounded that Mark was willing to change his name, the name of the company to Meta Like it was a big step. He was so crazy and bold um and you know, we'll see how that stake. Maybe a decade or earlier,

I don't know. Yeah, it was like, everybody's gonna say,

return to office now, stop doing this thing called the metaverse. Yeah, well it's gonna be a little bit ironic if met if Meta orders everyone back to the office and they're like, why just to be in the Horizonville with a torso, yeah, all of us could be doing this right now, someone said, Someone asked me, what was the bigger mistake Mark Stuckerberg changing the whole company and betting on Metaverse, or Tom Brady coming back to play another year with the Bucks

and kind of like ruining his marriage. To Zuck's credit, he changed the conversation he did not like the one that they were having about his company. Absolutely, he created a whole new I think Tom Brady Trumps very Trumpish of him, and Brady hasn't quite learned that lesson yet. But the ETF side of this was from the moment that it happened, we are like, that's that's gonna be awesome. Yeah, that's so good on you for asking it about it, Matt Okay number three sometimes a big name. Yeah, we

get some big names sometimes. Kathy Wood, whom you know, has had a rough year, but she's always interesting. She's just good TV because she says a lot. She's just the people who are at the top of the companies are always the best interviews because they don't really they're not in the middle. They don't really care what their bosses think because they are the boss, right, So Kathy's very open. We asked her about she says her funds

are inherently ESG. That's a huge theme on the show, and we asked her whether she agrees with Elon that ESG is outrageous scam. Sort of an interesting wedge question that characterization of ESG. What I've always said when people have asked us about our our portfolios, I've always said they are intrinsically good for the environment, socially good, and you know, we have a scoring system around government, so we certainly, we certainly are focused on doing the right thing,

which is what I think ESG is all about. I think it got way out of hand and there was a lot of slapping lipstick on a pig, and you know, basically Annie portfolio being kind of promoted as ESG all right, Well, to some extent she was right. She was kind of proved out or Elon Musk I should say, was right by msdi's recent move. Right. Yeah, I've always been BULLISHESG metrics.

If you're analyzing a company or an active manager, why not get more data that's going to be a huge area, packaging it into a fund and like making your banking, your retirement on it, your kids education. I'll always skeptical of that. And it's trying to make something that's subjective objective and it's very difficult to do that. So ESG funds barish, ESG metrics bullish for me. Yeah, I mean it's just such a broad umbrella. Someone's going to be upset.

But ESG is I think probably come up on every show, right, oh yeah about its every show. But the thing the thing is, I think people invested on principles long before ESG was around. But you're very smart to point out that it's subjective, right, and what the taxonomy is trying to do is turn it into an objective thing, and I think they've failed pretty miserably at least thus far. Speaking of which, speaking your take on any of these things, Joe, I have no takes for this one. This is all

this is you guys. Well, I do you think we

talked about ESG a lot on trillions? I think you're the way you just described it, Eric, I think is interesting because I don't think that's come through the in the trillion segments that we've done, that the metrics you're interested in, and that your your pro data just not maybe more accuri Yeah, because ESGTF inherently wants to take over your core because why would you put five percent into an ESG fund, Because then you're still on SPY, which has all the bad stocks, right, So you kind

of have to go all in if you're going to be ESG, and that's I don't know, that's that's basically betting all your money on a more expensive active approach, which again you can underperform. And that's what people saw in the past eighteen months. That's I've just been barished on that. Yeah, everything else I kind of get so interesting way to articulate it. Okay, so good transition here, because this next guest made a ton of noise in the ETF space and then he went ahead and like

declared himself a presidential potential. Yeah. This is vevek Roumswamy who started Strive And as we interviewed him over we had him on Trillions, we had him on the show, you could see he was just getting himself into this political sort of communication and I'm not surprised. It just evolved him going, you know what, screw at ETFs aren't enough. I'm running for presidents. So signs were there, so yeah, you know, logical transition. It could have been the endgame

from the beginning. Well, but Nature Racing are talking about how like this is like ETF marketing to a whole nother level because he's going to be able to maybe like because the ETFs match what he's saying on the presidential trail. Anyway, Matt had a really cool set up for a question to Vevec, and Vevec, I gotta say, is a very good communicator regardless if you agree or not, you're focused vic on making money, right, This is what

investors want to do. I think of it like Michael Jordan in that great documentary said, I just didn't want to focus on politics. I was focused on winning basketball games. There are athletes who focus on politics and they don't necessarily put up as many points on the board as those who focus on what they're doing, what they're there for. And that's what you want to really bring out here.

You want to sort of rebirth capitalism into the investment space exactly, and starting with the US energy sector, picking the one sector to that I think has been most economically damaged by these politicized demands coming from large capital owners and shareholders. And so our message is really simple. If you're an oil company, be a great oil company. If you're a natural gas company, be a great natural gas company. And if you're an alternative energy company, be

a great alternative energy company. But don't mendate oil company needs to stop being oil companies, which is what the likes of black Rock, State Street and Vanguard have done. Now, I will say Matt didn't exactly ask a question there. I didn't mean to sell his ETF for him re listening to that. I wish I could shorten that intro because and and and end your statement with the question instead of also comparing him to Jordan. I don't know

that that was right. Well, it lives on in chiliance forever. Now. Well, I recently watched Last Dance again with my twelve year old, and I noticed that Jordan had to account for that whole Republicans buy sneakers too, and that's sort of what he said. He's like, I'm just busy playing basketball. I just didn't really want to get into that arena. So I think that's what your question was focused on. But he because he was trying to defend that he wasn't

anti EESG. He was just provaci. We called it the anti woke ETF and he didn't like that, or at least he didn't want us to frame it that way, or at least he wanted to push back against framing it that way. I think, though, that he misses an important point, which is that sometimes companies need to pivot. I mean, sometimes you're an oil producer and then you

realize you should be a battery maker. Maybe that's too much of a pivot, but you get my point right, and his theory or his investment strategy doesn't really allow for that. Well, I think his point, like if you think we had him on around the launch of the Strive US Energy ETF, which tracks I shares is Energy ETF, and his whole point was these companies need to drill more and fracmore, basically making the point that they're not. It's not that they're pivoting, which to your point, some

companies need to do. It's just they're straying away from what they're supposed to do and not even channeling that energy into something productive. He's concerned about the regulation, but sometimes these companies decide not to drill more in fracmore because it's not economically expedient to do so. Right, If they see a downturn coming, if they see a drop in demand, they're naturally going to pull back on investment.

So there's a difference between making the right decision for your shareholders and being forced to do something by But this taps into this. ETF doesn't have hardly any assets, like VTI alone takes in more than their whole company every day. But VTI, what can you say, it's the total market. So this also talks about with TV some things play well that tap into debates and conversations that don't have a lot of assets, like ESG versus Vanguard.

You know, we cover Vanguard to a degree, but asset wise, we should cover them for a third of the show, but we don't. We give more time to some of this other stuff that's new or innovative or debatable. By the way, don't vevex ETFs mimic existing gigantic products that are already in the market, except for they have a much higher expense ratio. So Strive wants to charge a lot more money for something that's very similar to something that Vanguard gives away for free. Close but the fees

are the same, but they're there. Yeah, the fees are the same. To his credit, and then they just say we're going to erase that part mat cut That also also probably a better ticker. Um, but yeah, speaks to uh, there's some interesting takeaways in that one. Okay, next, Yeah, Next, we have nature Acy, who's a friend of the show, you know, a great guy. He was on. And we have advisors on the A block. These are people who

invest and actually put money to work. That's what our A block's about he talks about a one trillion prediction, and this also Katie's reaction to his answer. Katie's got

the best reactions and she cracks me up constantly. And I think this clip sort of shows that because the first US listed ETF, the Spider SNP five hundred ETF, turns thirty years old next month, and from my perspective, it's pretty remarkable that ETFs have now been around for three decades, yet the industry is still accelerating, still growing, Which gets to my first prediction, which is that I believe ETF inflows will surpass one trillion in twenty twenty three.

So we knocked on the door in twenty twenty one had over nine hundred billion of inflows. Twenty twenty two is we just discussed highly impressive just given the markets around six hundred billion in inflows. I think twenty twenty three will be the year that we eclipse one trilling and influence for the first time. I just think the ETF industry is firing on all cylinders right now, and ETFs are the investment vehicle moving forward. Eric, did you know that Spy and I are the same age. We

have almost the same birthday. I was born in May. That is really cool. It's a great fun fact for the last show. It's not my birthday yet, but very soon Katie's birthday. That stuff really makes financial television work because a lot of it's scripted. The people are scripted, they're on message points. I think when I watch, I like to see the coloring out of the lines to a degree in between some of the guests. So I

like that you're good at coloring outside the lines, Katie. Well, this is why I was so thrilled to be a part of this next generation of ETF i Q because I knew it was going to be with Eric, who I get along with famously. I knew I was going to be with Matt Miller, who it's hard to script you, Matt, It's hard to keep you in the box. So it's well Matt. So Matt doesn't go to many of the prep meetings. But I think that's a that's a feature, not a bug, because we kind of like overdo it.

We think it we're cooking and cooking. Let me get overcook. He comes in and sort of just keeps it fresh, alive. He might just ask something from the newsflow from another show he was on because he's on radio all like since like four more be fair. I don't go to the prep meetings because you hold them while I'm on a live international broadcast. For sure, for sure, that's true.

I think it works. I think the dynamic works because also you have to assume that people who are perhaps watching at one pm on television, maybe they're not so in the weeds as we are. So Matt brings it is a lot of fun though, because you guys are the insiders, right, I mean, Katie's reporting on this for BN all day. You run this trillions podcast with Joel, so you guys live in the ETF world. You go to the conference in Miami to clear I try and

stay outside of that. Well yeah, no, Matt and Joel are the like the the Jim Nances of this, right, we're the Tony Romos right there. Get that reference. Let's come out of the weeds here and keep does this break this down, keep it simple. I think Tony Romo is the one that makes the money. But um, okay, how do you feel about this one trillion dollar prediction? Now it's probably not gonna happen. They've taken seventy five billion in the first quarter. Oh, is that for overall

ETF flows? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it feels like that's not gonna happen. Probably not, but I think over time, I'm just very bullish on the industry. But a trillion this year probably not gonna happen. But he knows. Okay, we got another one. So a block macro C block, ETF B block is where we bring on like a bi analyst like Athan or James, or a b N person

like Sam Potter or Fildonna. And in this case, we're gonna look at Sam Potter, who talked about bond mutual funds to ETFs and he's one of our favorite guests, Boomberg News editor Sam Potter. But what's been going on under the surface is this ship between bond mutral funds to ets. Now, we know that bond ets have really come of age these last couple of years, especially after the pandemic and the FED stepping into back bond ETFs.

But what's different this year is this sort of consistent outflows from bond mutual funds where now something like four hundred and fifty billion dollars have left bond mutual funds in the past year. Or so at the same time about one hundred and fifty billion going into ets. It sounds so much better coming from Sam Potter. I'm gonna say he's even good looking just an audio so Matt got there before I was going to even bring it up. I love having Sam Potter on because he's my etf editor,

et cetera, you know, fantastic person to work with. But also every time he's on, Matt invariably says in the chat, this man is so handsome. Well, it's not my fault. I mean, he's objectively an attractive man. Yes, I don't know what to say else about that. He's got a little the Hu Grant thing. And then his voice is just sound. You know, he's got, He's got, He's definitely got some thing. Okay, wait, well the words, let's talk about the Let's talk about the substance of his words, Katie.

Anything you want to say about bond mutual words are also really good that come out of his mouth. And I mean what he was talking about there, that trend that we were talking about for months every single show, the fact that bond ets were taking in billions and billions, and at the same time bond mutual funds are absolutely bleeding. That was one of the big themes of twenty twenty two and continues to be a theme of twenty twenty three. Right, I mean that's going to go on until what mutual

funds are all bled out? No? I think they won't all bleed out. They got the phone as long as okay, but that could change. Right, do you expect regulation to address you know ETFs and four oh one ks. Ever, the thing with ETF and formal cas is like, um, I don't remember Superman two, Yes, of course. Yeah, when he goes into the booth Richard Pryor, No, that's four okay. Superman two two. So remember he wants to marry Lois Lane, but he has to lose his powers in order and

be a human to marry Lois. Right, that was sad. So he goes into the box and they up all his powers away. Feels in hindsight, it feels way too early to be going down this Superman trajectory, hear me out. No, it just ETFs lose Superman's fault. But Superman two should not have gone there this quickly. Yeah, true, true, it was heavy and that was the one where they had the three villains member who came and then three from crypton. Yes, anyway, so they came in that mirror that just spun around

all the time until it's a great yeah. So he goes in the box and there's this like thing that goes on and he loses his powers. ETFs lose their superpowers in a four one K plan. You don't need to trade them. In a four one K plan. The mutual fund usually get the eye class, so it's as cheap as the ETF, and the tax efficiency of the ETF goes away because there's a tax deferred. So mutual funds are pretty much on a level playing field. Take them into a taxable count. ETFs usually are going to

win that battle. But that's sort of why four when K plans don't have a lot of ETFs. That said, you can still get a Vanguard or a Fidelity Bond index mutual fund and you're gonna get the same thing as an ETF. So I I think passive definitely growing in the four one K you don't necessarily need the ETF. Rapper there, got it, okay. And last guest, last one is somebody who had a couple of times we had him on We did the show in Miami, and Katie

has done a good job booking this guy. It's the deputyco of Double Line, Jeff Sherman, who basically works for Jeff Gunlock, who everybody knows, and he's I think he's good because here he's talking about the FED and on our show we definitely talk about a lot of macro issues. So it's an ETF show, but the macro is important to know where to tweak and shift your ETFs. You know, I want to ask a little bit about Gunlock, your boss. I've been to several ETF conferences over the past six

years and he's pretty brutal on the FED. He's been a pretty big critic of the FED. And I guess now that we're in a different environment, I guess how would you grade the FED? Do you think? Here's a I think a tweet they brought up this is him at the Exchange conference, basically saying the FED had just tracked the two year get rid of eight hunt An economists PhDs. By the way, that's right, that's right. Expensive. Yeah, So I guess how would you grade the FED? In

they're dealing with that shock inflation print? Since then? Yeah. I mean, look, they're doing their job, right. I mean, we haven't seen kind of a hiking cycle like this. If they deliver on the fifty, it'll be the highest hiking cycle really in the post World War two era in a calendar year. And so they are being aggressive and so the great I think they're doing a relatively good job. But it's a shock and a campaign because there's times they waffle a little bit, which gets this

risk on trade, the pivots coming. And I think also traders have a short memory. I love talking to Jeff Sherman because he's really an investor. We can have a high level conversation with him, but he also will just explicitly say I like this type of bonds, I'm not touching junk at this time, things like that, So he really he gets into it. This I think speaks to our program. Isn't just about ETFs and a vacuum, right, and it would make sense to talk about them like

that anyway. So we bring in every Monday the news of the day and what's going on in markets because that's important to ETF investors as well. And that's why I think Jeff Sherman is one of the great guests to have on this show. I mean, to Katie's point, he you know, at the end of the day, he needs to make money. Double Line isn't famous because Jeff Goodlock, you know, dresses so well. Double Line is famous because they've been killing it. They knocked the ball out of

the park over the last decade. They've outperformed everybody else. And that's why it's great to have Jeff Sherman and talk to us about how to actually invest and make money in the ETF market. And they're ETFs trade a ton. I'd say it maybe half the investors use ETFs are trading,

they're tweaking, they're moving their portfolios. Maybe the other half is a little more in the vanguardian front, like a Dan Egan from Betterment who they don't trade hardly at all, although we'll have Dan on they'll make little shifts or every year they make a shift. But then there's people who tune into Bloomberg TV who might be living in Florida and just looking to suit do some day trading, and they need to hear from us. You're like, my dad,

you all dread traders live in Florida? Is that the idea? I was just trying to create a little bit of a stereotype maybe, but yeah, I think a lot of them do. I think a lot of people down there have money and they're a little bit like have time on their hands or phoenix. Yeah, maybe yes, But I'm just thinking of like there's professionals who need to know what to do because that's their job, and then there's also just individual retail investors who are just want to

be aware. And then a lot of times in the show, we'll go from Jeff Sherman talking about macro to talking about ETFs that he offers and why they might be a solution to that, or even other people's ETFs will asking about HyG so we will pepper in ETFs to the macro. So because I always thought ETFs are how you play at home to everything being said on Bloomberg TV. Sure, they democratize everything you can do any trade, and they can be good for retail investors, they can be good

for institutional investors. I love talking about bond blocks, you know, because that is like deep in the weeds, nitty gritty ETF tools that you can use in a much larger trading strategy. Yeah. Absolutely, but no bigger topic right now for an investor like this than than the FED and how the Fed's doing their jobs. The Fed's always the biggest topic. I mean, even if like for a while for a while, I'm not so sure it was, but

like it definitely wasn't, dude. They were at ZERPE for ten years zero interest rate policy or NERP near zero interestrate policy. Right, So for a long time, earnings really mattered. People cared how companies did in the stock market. You know, for a long time it was about the economy that said. Sometimes they'd be like, you have like a good earnings run, and then someone would go, like, wait a second, the FED could raise rates and actually you'd have a sell off.

There has been this interesting good news, bad news, bad news, good news, back and forth. Sometimes they line up good news is good news, but the sometimes good news is bad news, and it's usually because the Fed's reaction is going to create a sell off, even though that you had just had good news. It's just it's just the FED is a huge force. It comes up a lot, and as it should be. Matt Katie, thanks for arnings

on Trilliance and Leisure. Congrats on ETFIQ. Thank you Thanks for having us, Thanks for listening to Trillions until next time. You can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and wherever else you like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. We're on Twitter, I'm at Joel Wepper Show. He's at Eric Falcuna's. This episode of Trillions was produced by Magnets Hendricksonpye