The Jealousy List, ETF Edition

seen it? Yes? Yeah, no, I've seen him. You've done it for a few years, right, multiple years, yeah, And so the exercise is one that we invite not only the staff of Business Week, but a bunch of our contributors throughout the Bloomberg News universe to say, if there was one story that someone other than you and and Bloomberg did this year, what was it? What are you

most jealous of in the pantheon of journalism. We get a ton of positive feedback about it every year, and it makes for a great end of your reading list that I encourage everyone to check out over the holidays at Bloomberg dot com. And this year was you know, everyone was doing good stuff during the pandemic. So it was a special treat to be able to look across everybody in journalism and say, here's some things that stood

out to us. And we figured we would take that same exercise to trillions this episode and talk to some of our main et F contributors and figure out what they were jealous of. Yeah, and just curious, did you have one that you were jealous of? Yeah? Of course. And it was by New York Magazine and the story was the World's best Bureaucrat. Do you know who that is? Oh? Yeah, well you told yeah, So it was. It was a

great story that they did. I was super jealous of it because, look like we talked about Jerome Pow a lot, and we talked about the FED a lot. But the way that they framed that, I just thought it was. I read the article, It wasn't like I even learned that much from it, but they just put it all together in this great What was the main framing? Because you know, Jerome call gets a lot of ink. Most people understand he has big influence on the markets. What

was the framing here? So Josh Barrow, who you probably know he's now a business insider, but he was columns for for New York magazine, and and again I just thought that it was like the framing of thinking of Pale as a bureaucrat, which the trickle down effect and why I would still want to talk about it on trillions is that you know, he was Superman this year, right, and the sun that radiated from the FED basically kept

the markets and the economy going right. And and so the fact that we could talk about that but do it through sort of a more of a novel framing, I thought was to reach that wider audience that they can reach. Yeah, that's really great, and yeah, Josh is real good at um he's in the he's in the wider world of news, but he knows the markets really well. And I can see why you'd pick that. But also, can I just go a little crazy with the Superman

metaphor here? I literally had the thought that you remember at the end of Superman one, when he flies around the earth like, you know, so fast that he rewinds time. I swear as like the Fed kind of pulled the Superman one because they made that huge fall in March come kind of right back and they really rewound time a little bit. It was really unbelievable. I think Superman is a pretty apt metaphor. So joining us on this episode we have Jako Petershill, who's an editor on the

Cross Asset team in London. First time on Trillions Clear Balentine, who's a cross asset reporter, and Katie Gridfield, the markets and et F reporter. And we'll also get Eric's jealousy pick too, this time on Trillions Jealousy List. Alright, Yakobe, Claire, Katie, great to have you on Trillions again, Thanks for joining us. Thank you. Okay, Eric, I gave you mine. What was the jealousy list item that you would put on your

list this year? Well, there's a lot. You know, I'm in research, so I'm gonna kind of look to other analysts as opposed to reporters. But um, the people I tend to get jealous of our Dave Nadigg, Ben Johnson at morning Star, Todd rosen Bluth, they always write, you know, a couple of things a year that I am really impressed by. But Dave Nadie in particular, had two articles this year, won during the fixed income bond ETF sell off that really nobody goes as deep into trading as him,

and I thought that was good. But the one that recently came out that I wish I wrote, and I was thinking of writing, and I'm probably going to quote in this book I'm working on, is an article called how big is too big? And it's an e t F trends And essentially there's been this steady drumbeat of like worrying that the et F fish it were passive issuers are getting too big. Vanguard and black Rock in particular, they own eight percent each of the average stock. That's

a lot. It's the most uh. Ever, and this institutionalization of holdings where you have maybe I don't know two dozen firms that have really a huge amount of power over corporate America. And it's an interesting issue and it's legit, but a lot of the academics they just sort of

worry about it without really providing any any major evidence. Uh. For example, like airline tickets would go up incredibly because there'd be no motive for the owners of the stocks to The motive would be for them to make more money, so they'd increase airline tickets. But there's a lot of counterpoints and then they really never provide any solutions for this uh in these in these papers, they really you know, what, what what do you want to break up the index funds?

Ban index funds um The other thing is the index funds obviously do a lot of good, so most people who own them don't really care about this issue. So there's a lot of cross currents in this particular issue. But Dave just broke it down, really made a simple way to explain why they are worrying about it, but did kind of ding them for for this, you know,

idea of here's what he has this quote. With this concentration and ownership, the knee jerk reaction from pundits and academics alike will be and is already let's prove this is a problem. And I do find that somewhat part of this. But he goes through the concerns, goes through some counterpoints, and then he also goes through what we shouldn't do and what we could do, and I like that. I like that uh adding of solutions in there. So

it was just a really good, well rounded article. I highly recommend reading it, especially if you get a little alarmed by some article that has the headline of like is Vanguard too big or is uh passive going to raise your airline tickets? Um, just read this piece and it will give you a more well rounded picture of the situation. It's pretty nerdy, it is, but it's you know, when it's an ongoing issue, and it's one that um, you know, the academics would argue that it's not that

wonky because this could could affect consumers. So anybody who buys goods, flies and airplanes, not this year, but regularly. Uh, this could affect you. That's what they would say. And a lot of people on the index side would you know, beg the differ. But that's why it's an issue that has a lot of depth in my opinion, because it really strikes at the heart of markets and capitalism. Okay, Claire, did Eric just steal your jealousy list item? No? Um,

I had had a different one. I um, it was an article and it's technically e t N s and not E t f s, but I think it can can qualify. But what remind us what E t N is? So E t N s are unsecured debt obligations. They sound similar to e t F s, but they're actually pretty different, um in the in the sense that they're

similar to bonds. Um they have a maturity date. One of the things people like about them is that they are leveraged a lot of the times and can deliver big returns, but they can also really amplify losses UM, and they really came into the spotlight this year during all the volatility in March and then you know the storage back to all time highs and just how that market activity really whipsawed these exchange traded notes that counts

will go with it so UM. But it was one that Akani Otani and Sebastian pelle Haero did for the Raw Street Journal UM. It came out at the beginning of June UM and its title is bankrupt in just two weeks. Individual investors get burned by collapse of complex securities, and it was all about more retail, smaller investors that put all their money into UM E t N s UM.

Some of them were talking about their retirement savings going in there trying to UM get returns on those and sort of learned in by that UM possibility of having really outsized gains from these leveraged E t N s and how UM some of them just got completely wiped

out during the volatility in March. And what I really liked about it was that it it talked to these individual investors, which isn't something that's easy to do to find people willing to talk about how much money they lost um, and also to be able to sort of tell their stories, which is something that I wish we did more in our articles and one of the goals of mine moving into But I thought they did a great job of just really laying out, um, kind of

why these investors would go into the products, some of them trying to boost their retirement savings, UM, just their idea that bond yields are so low, um, and just sort of searching for products. And there's been such a discussion over whether there's enough regulation around these e t n s and enough disclaimers to sort of prevent retail investors from going into them um. And there's a lot

of back and forth on that debate. But it's sort of hard to read this article and not think, Wow, something is sort of messed up in the sense that these people can lose so much money from these products. Claire, that's a good one. I think e t n s are kind of like the wild cousin of the E t F. They arguably shouldn't even be under the same umbrella. They just they are though. But yeah, a lot of

them closed. This was a year where a lot of exotics closed, so a lot of this worry probably took care of itself with all those closures like t vix u w T. In our rating system, we call these the the n C seventeen products. They're worse than rated r UM. But the E t F tent is so big, and picking a product that you don't understand is is definitely a possibility and something that is you know, should be looked at and you know, talked about more. But or Yako, you want to talk about Europe and how

insane it is over there? Um, what in terms of E t n s. Yeah, they let anything go there. Yeah, there's a as a company called Leverage Shares out here that does basically their whole product is just it's an e t F that gives you leveraged exposure to a single stock. So you can buy this e t F as a way of like getting like I mean, I don't think it goes up to like seven times or anything, but they definitely have like triple leverage TESLA exposure and it's an e t F and you just buy it

on an exchange. It's it's bizarre. Um. And of course Eric, you know from the past, we also have like seven times you know, negative docks index e t N s that are you know, issued by sock Gin and banks like that, and those are always fun, Joel. They know how to party in Europe. That's the bottom. Mean you could you imagine if all that stuff was on robin Hood. Oh my god. The three x tesla on robin Hood is quite is something to think about. Yeah, yeah, there's

a bit more freedom out here in Europe. You know. It's like, you know, we have nude beaches, we have like underage drinking and yeah, it goes right, it goes fits right. In hatch bars we heard from Quare Now Wall Street Journal gave her pains? What gave you pains?

What are you jealous of? Okay, so if you know, but you know, I dabble in volatility a lot too, And and this story is kind of it's mostly about volatility, but it's tangentially related to to the et P space because, as we know, back in ten, a lot of E t F and e t N investors got burned trading volatility. A similar thing happened this year UM, but in a sort of positive twist, it was less UM retail investors that got burned than the institutions. UM. This year, so

that was kind of a heartwarming sort of development. UM. So my article that I'm jealous of this year is called how to Lose a Billion dollars Without Really Trying UM, which is an awesome title, and it was written by Leanna Or for Institutional Investor magazine UM, and basically it's a it's a long feature and a sort of postmortem UM that makes the argument that trading volatility was actually the the w or like the sub toxic subprime riggage

of the Corona crash. Everyone knows what happened right in March, VIC spike to a record UM, and a lot of people were short volatility, a lot of sophisticated hedge funds, a lot of pension funds that invest you know, our grandparents money for them, UM, and so pretty much everyone

was like uniformly burnt on this. Ironically, who came out sort of not so badly as the retail investor because if you guys remember Posten, there was a lot of sort of reform in the volatility etp space UM, and these things became kind of a lot less nuclear and a lot less popular, So there wasn't as much retail

speculation on volatility. This time around UM and and in fact, a lot of the banks that did things like issue these crazy structured notes that were sort of leverage bets on volatility, they ended up getting burned a lot more than the retail investors who actually bought these things. So it was a kind of a bit of poetic justice. Yeah. I really loved this story. It was really nicely done with a lot of colors. So that mine. Leanna is awesome. She just writes these deep dives that I wish I

had the time or brain to do. Um. I hope she's listening because I think she's great. And by the way, Yakob, you bring up a good point with every two or three years to get a teachable moment in et s, I think and X I V was that one like three years ago, and it kind of did correct itself. They neutered all the leverage ones. People worried about t VIX now that did get up to about I think it was seven billion in March because it was just I think it returned two thousand percent in like three

months or two months or something. But then that's also gone now and so the real Vixie, you know, uh, leveraged kind of potential problem. Child's children are pretty much gone at this point, although I think there's two, there's a couple in the hopper. But what was a problem in one of I thought Katie did a great job covering this one was USO. That was the teachable moment this year? Um, Katie, you want to talk about us so real quick and what happened that I'm STI scarred?

I would say it definitely was a teachable moment. But basically, USO invested in the front month oil contract, which, as we know in April went negative negative thirty seven per barrel, which is just hard to wrap your mind around. So USL was scrambling to re shift its holdings, which contracts it uh it invested in, and it it did that. Um, but I believe it's now still under investigation by the SEC.

Eric maybe jump in here because I might get it wrong over whether it properly disclosed to its investors what it was doing with its holdings and how it was shifting them around. Yeah, I believe that's still a open investigation. That might be a rough word for it. But I'm not sure they're going to be liable because if you read the prospectives they talk about this being possible, um,

but it was. It was just oil mcgeddon. Nobody thought that futures could go negative, and the idea was, you know, do we let futures go negative and then we'll have to owe people money like the people, or do we completely newter the exposure and water it down. And they chose the safe route. And so the ultimately the problem with it then was that people who who wanted it for the hardcore front month exposure didn't get it. They weren't getting that oil rebound like they wanted to. So

the whole thing was a big mess. USO ties into the retail story because it was a very popular stock on not a stock and et up on robin Hood when you could still track their day to day holdings. People just kept piling into US. So even as all this turmoil was unfolding, because I guess retail investors were like this invests in oil. I want to bet on the bottom and oil here we go. And Joel, you

know what's interesting about oil. It's that's one of the things I'll get texts about from old college friends and stuff, when they see oil go down that much that it makes like the CBS Nightly News with Lester Holt or whatever they want in they feel like they're Warren Buffett. They're like, I'm I'm buying at the bottom and USO is kind of the only way to get that exposure. And again, a teachable moment. I doubt we're going to see that kind of frenzy next time. It sounds like

something your dad would call you about. Oh yeah, he does. Yeah that. I don't know if that has enough for him, though he likes even Yeah, that's it's probably two for him. By the way, he keeps telling me about t vix and how low it's gotten in his account because he keeps reverse splitting, and uh, we have a lot of fun on that. Yeah, I'm like, hey, but it's up.

I said t vix went up like two, and he basically looked at it at the percentage he went up was maybe like one percent, because that's how much he had lost over the five years he's held it. Anyway, the whole thing was it was funny. There's an episode where we interview my dad about his experience with t vix, and it's a classic case of you know what Claire was talking about, how you have real people who buy this stuff. He bought it because he thought Hillary was

gonna win and the market would just plunge. And he said, what will go up to most if the market plunges? And I said, well, t vix, but you gotta sell it whether it works or not, in a week, and he just didn't sell. It's a long term investor in TVA. Okay, Katie, uh Uso? Was that? Was that your jealousy pick or did you have something else? I think we did a pretty good job covering Uso, so I'm actually my jealousy

pick is pretty recent. It's from earlier this month. It's also from the Wall Street Journal, so Claire, we have our targets, but it's by Shanna Schoenberger and it's on a study that it's really fascinating. I wanted to write about it, I just didn't get time. It was released in October and it's about target date funds, which are it's a one point for trillion dollar industry. It's extremely important and uh it's it's exactly what it sounds like.

You know, investors pick a target date fund with a specific date further retirement savings, and it glides them towards that date and gradually shifts them into bonds. Yes, exactly, you can just set it and forget it. You're on autopilot.

But this study was from David Brown, a professor at the University of Arizona and Sean Davies, professor at the University of Colorado at Boulder, and they found basically that target date funds sponsors, because target date funds are funds of funds, they charged basically two fees, and because of those fees, they charged nearly two point five billion in XS fees in seen alone versus what you could save by just replicating those portfolios with a e t F. So it just goes to show that the retire the

American retirement system could be improved if perhaps of e t f s were allowed in for oh one case, but just an incredibly important study and story, and she did a great job. Added additional reporting where she talked to some of the biggest target date fund sponsors, Vanguard Fidelity and basically got them to defend their fees. So great article. I wish I had written it, but she beat me to the punch. Yeah. I think that's a um a really good example as well of something that

I wish we could have covered UM. We definitely have our our target set out for one about who we have to be. But I think it's a tremendously Like you said, it's UM one point four trillion, so it's tremendously important for us to cover that and to be talking about it. And one thing I will add about

the study is UM. You know, they estimate from that two point five billion and XS fees, investors could save about one percent per year by just replicating with E t s. But that does kind of ignore the set it and forget it mentality. You know, investors probably don't want to be working to recreate these portfolios all the time, but I mean it's still hugely important if you're saving for retirement, that one percent matters a lot. And also say that it seems to me that there's the et

has to become so popular. They trade, there's so much innovation that most of the media has really covered them to the point where ten years ago there was hardly any coverage. Now it's very much matured into full coverage. But I feel like they've left the mutual fund world too much. There's not enough eiveballs and lights being shined

and what is still ten trillion dollars. There's a lot of things going on there, and that's interesting to me, given that mutual funds still have double uh if you have money market funds more than double what E t F s have uh, yet they are you know, get maybe I don't know a third of the coverage, and so it's good to see some of that, especially the fore when k plans that you know why, because that stuff isn't gonna get a lot of clicks. I'm sorry, it's just target date fund this that, or it's just

not going to light it up. But it's good stuff. I'll comfort myself with that. I also find that weird, Eric, because particularly around March, when we were all talking about like the l QD sort of dislocation, a lot of that stuff was happening in mutual funds, much worse than it was in E t F and there was really no one or out to cover it except for like you guys at b I. So I'm struck by that

as well. Okay, wait, Eric, you're gonna put on your stand in Clauds costume because Claire Jacob Katie He's got a gift for you. I do what what is it, Eric. So I went through all of your articles and picked one of each I get, I get updates of everything you write, so you do great work. And I went back and look through all of your articles to pick out one of each of yours that I was jealous of and just feel like, really nailed it. And so I guess I'll start with Claire um. Claire's coverage of

Cathy Wood has been monumental to me. That's probably the story of the year. Again, you know, seventeen billion of assets and ARC isn't that much percentage wise, but she's just bucked so many odds that you you just can't not cover this story. And the one that I really liked was Cathy Wood's fun bought more Tesla after shares got quote slapped and she had us. See, you guys can quote the people, and that's why I think you

had a lot of value. You can also do stuff quicker than weekend in research, so you had you were right on this article. Kathy shares her holdings every day and she bought more when Tesla went down in September, And the quote you have here is I was happy it got slapped. We wait for those sorts of delays where there's outright fear. If we think this thought has

dropped enough, we'll move in, and we did. Tesla has gone up fifty six per cent since then, and it really just, I don't know, adds to the whole mystique of Kathy would just being like probably the zeitgeist, the active manager of this era. And I think you've had, you know, half a dozen articles on her that really hit the spot, that one in particular. UM, thank you. It's been really fun to cover her and to see

what she's doing. And I think especially you know, with journalism in general, it's all about the people sort of behind the market moves and these things like that, but especially when it's an active manager who's actively making these decisions to go into tesla um or things of that nature. And so that's why I've really enjoyed being able to in of you Kathy and sort of figure out and write about what she's thinking behind some of these moves. UM. And Okay, Yacob, speaking of arc I think you know

I'm going with this. Jacob had an article. I tweeted this out and rarely my tweets go quote viral viral. For me, is like maybe fifty retweets. For other people, it's probably over a thousand. But um, most of our stuff is too wonky to get much love. But Yakob I tweeted out your JP Morgan article and people loved it. And basically, I don't even know how you found this.

I'd like to know, but the article is basically the title is JP Morgan offers you only Live once or yolo trade to bet on ark ETFs where they basically, you know, these Wall Street banks designed these structure products for their high net worth clients or institutions, and in this case, they made a structured product tied to e t S from arc Um that basically packaged three of the e t F s leverage one point five times over six years. Um, it makes sense to me that

they would do this. I think we actually had direction on e t F i Q once and I jokingly said, when's the three x R e t F coming out? Because normally when an e t F breaks through like that and gets a couple of billion, you see a leverage version of it. And so they kind of joked and didn't say anything. But I'm not surprised that this is happening. But it really struck a nerve with people, and I'm just curious how you found the article and

maybe if you want to explain how the product works. Yeah, sure, Um, I mean these things this was a publicly you know, SEC registered note. So I have a little search that I have every once in a while, I I take a little spin through the latest freaky you know, Wall Street inventions, and um, yeah, I spotted arc. I had never seen anything like this one because it was linked to three RK E t F s and they're they're

certainly having like there's zeitgeist moment um. But I also noticed it was crazy, like it's a six year note leveraged one and a half times, Like like Eric, you were talking about not holding these leveraged you know, vix etp s for longer than a week, Like can you imagine who holding something for six years that's a leverage one and a half times. I mean, it's just wild. I mean I fell in love as soon as I saw it. Um. And so yeah, we we did this story.

And interestingly, a guy actually wrote in afterwards and I don't think I'm gonna be able to do this story, so I might as well kind of give him a shout out on this financial advisor from Princeton, New Jersey, which is not far from where you are. Eric wrote in and said, hey, I was the one who came up with this structure. I went to Ben P. Parry Bah back in October to build me this exact same note UM and he was like, I want credit, you know.

And and so Dan over at White Night Strategic Wealth Advisors actually came up with this structure back in October UM and and yeah, he told me like this is a sleeve in his UM in some of his investors portfolio, like they're already exposed to ARC. But he was like, look why not, Like it was a kind of a Yolow play. It's like, why not make this into a

tiny little sleeve of their portfolio. He's really a big fan of Cathy would and he thinks the fact that it's actively managed UM means that they're gonna just keep on winning. You know that that's his sort of justification. So anyway, yeah, it was. It was a weird story, but thanks for highlighting it. That's amazing. That is amazing,

isn't it? Um Sign of the times? I the skeptic of that UM and which I think you you had in the stories I recall yago was that it also is like, could you imagine a better indicator for the top of the market than than that product? Yeah? Yeah, And and in fairness that the terms. I I showed it to a couple of you know, structured product geeks, and they were like, no, these are not good terms, you know, they're They're just like you will get screwed

on this note eventually, you know. But hey, it's it's it's a fun ride while it lasts. Okay, So for Katie, look, there's so there's so much to choose from Katie. It was an embarrassment of I thought. I thought he was gonna say, really, it was a really bad year, Katie, it was a really bad year. You gotta pick it up next year. But yeah, so look for of all um, the headline of yours I like the best. So this

isn't the article, but just the headline this. I read this and I was like, oh my god, there's so much going on here. It's almost like sometimes your ability to make the headlines seem downright Shakespearean is amazing. So here's the headline about USO giant fund at heart of oil storm. Loses most cash in four years. I just I don't know. I just love that, Like the the density of that headline is and the package drama in there is amazing. So that's just that. That was my

favorite headline of yours. Now the story I like the best is this one that was that was the stocking. This is the big present with the special Santa Claus wrapping. Um. Okay, Wall Street theories on billions slashing through Schwab funds Okay, not the most interesting topic. But the approach here is fascinating and it's something we can't do and b I so I'm jealous of this, but I also find that smart of you. We don't know who's doing what in e T s. This is one of the reason institutions

love using them. There's there's no trace and so every time you see these flows, it's like a Sherlock Holmes mystery, and you you've got to try to solve it. Now, you could just sort of take a shot, or I don't know, uh, go with the best theory. But I love that you print all the theories. So you go down here, you look at the flows, and then you've got Okay, here's what James Pillow at Moore's and Kabat says,

I'm probably butchering that name. Here's what Nature a c at the E T F Store says, Here's what Matt Haley Maley at Miller says, Here's what Athanacios that's from b I well, here's what he says, and here's what Todd says. So you know, the reader can kind of read all these and to me, this is just this shines a light on the whole concept of flows and E t F and how you never really ever know unless the person who did it steps forward, and they

never do. And this happened recently with Claire's Voo article saw eight billion dollars out and we you know, you guys both were trying to put that together. Can you talk a little bit about just trying to solve these mysteries when it comes to flows. Yeah, well, credit were

credits do? I wrote that shop story with Claire, and I wrote that Voo article with Claire, And I mean, I want to give a shout out to our editors who are I really appreciate that they let us have that flexibility, because there's sometimes when Claire and I are just chasing our tails and we do end up with like five different theories for what could be behind a huge movement, and it's impossible to know unless we hear it from the horse's mouth, and a lot of the

times we don't even know who the horse is. So I've I just love that format for when you do see just you know, a huge outflow that everyone's talking about, there's not one unifying theory that we're able to just break it out and be like, you're the best guesses, choose your own adventure, and uh, most of the times, I mean, we get a lot of engagement from those articles, which I also really appreciate, and you can get a

pretty good sense of what's going on. Yeah, I think that adds a value to our readers too, to be able to look at and say, hey, these are some of the theories behind it um and that gives some sort of more insight into our thinking too, instead of us just sort of pretending like we know what's going on, because a lot of times we just it's impossible to actually know. And that wasn't this is a new thing, this didn't happen, this is a So that's why I

wanted to point it out. I think it's a great evolution of the articles rather than just as you said, I think it's good just put all the theories out there that that's the truth. The truth is you don't know, and but here's the theories I did. Audience can be the judge. All right. Congratulations to our Jealousy list honorees. Eric, thank you for playing Santa Claus. You did a very good job. Special special thing that was lame. That was a lame ho ho by the way, joke just I

went to the mall on Friday morning. Every year I go to the mall on a weekday morning to beat the system and do Christma shoping when there's nobody there, and I saw the Santa and it is behind these plexiglass and they put the kids in front of the glass so that maybe you don't see the glass. And the photo was so sad. We we we did an amazing story and and quick take collab um about Santa's and snow globes. That was like a mal trend. They

have like a snow globe setup. So the story for kids is that Santa got trapped in the snow globe. Uh and special thanks to Clear Jakob and Katie for for joining us and Trillions and and and sharing something I know that hurts, which is what you were jealous of. Happy holiday, So all of you guys, thank you, thank you, thanks for listening to Trillions. Until next time. You can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcast, Spotify,

and wherever else you like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. We're on Twitter, I'm at Joel ever Show, He's at Eric Falcunas. You can find Katie at k Greifeld, Claire at CFB Underscore eighteen, and Jacob at y Peter Steal. This episode of Trillions was produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Francesca Leedy is the head of Bloomberg Podcast by