The ETF Halftime Report

a bird's eye view. What's happened in the first half. So this was not a normal year. Last year everything was like utopia. Everything was going up, namely US equities. This year was everything that was going up together, which is also unusual. So et s were just exploded. Four hundred and eighty six billion in flows. Last year, everything

took in money practically. This year was much harder. Now e t f s up to this point of taking in a hundred and twenty seven billion dollars now this time last year they had taken in almost two billion. Now keep in mind, yes they're underperforming, but it's a rougher market. And if you look, active mutual funds are negative, not by a lot, but they haven't taken in any money. So a hundred seven billion in this environment, it's pretty good.

And unlike last year where it was all US equities leading the way as usual, especially after since Trump, when it's been a US equity flow athon US equities were working on. That sounds fun, doesn't it. Yeah, you know, I like a basketball game better, but okay, But something magical happened in early May that sort of put us back on a type US equity flow athon which was lacking the rest of the year. Do you know what

happened in early May? That sort of completely changed the directory of flows away from say begging a fixed income kind of year to being much more of a US equity kind of year like last year. What happened? I am racking my brain to remember early May, and you're just gonna have to help me out. Two words. Warren buff It h were Buffet. I've only seen two people have the ability to single handedly change the trajection questions. We could have just done the whole episode twenty questions.

The first is the fed chair whoever that is when when they talk the flows changed? Happened already next Trump, Trump is able to move flows pretty regularly. Buffett did it. What he did is he came out and he said he was buying I think it was seventy million shares worth of Apple, which was adding to more of his Apple holdings. And it was over that weekend of the Berkshire Annual Meeting, and I guess it was the spiritual

lift the market needed. Plus you had Apple doing buy back just before that, so that really got people going. And since then there's been a nice rally and US equity e t F s have taken in a lot more and sort of made up for lost ground earlier

in the year. But anyway, that kind of brings us up to where we're at right now, which is a little less Linn last year, but the assets are more spread around after I Leffett, and so we're gonna drill into that this episode and actually look at where the flows and outflows have come from and joining us again. One of our favorite episodes, we had a guest named Todd Rosenbluth who's the director of mutual fund and E t F Research at the cf are A. Todd is

back for this episode. Yeah, Joel instead of Ted too. This is like Todd to there's nobody better to pick apart first half flows than than Todd. He is a bona fide e t f nerd this week on Joyance Halftime with Todd Rosen Booths. All right, Eric, I'm looking at a bunch of pronounce First, we're gonna talk about inflows. Second we're going to talk about outflows. Thurd, we're gonna

talk about performance inflows. What do you notice? Right? So I'll just throw out the top inflow leader of the year is a ticker I E f A, which is the I shares Core M s C i EFA E T f IFA is essentially an acronym that we know that's international developed markets, so mainly it's Europe and japp hand and that has taken in seventeen billion dollars, and keep in mind that is at increase on assets. So i f A is far and away the flow leader.

The next one on the list is seven billion. But let's focus on I f A. Todd, what's your take? What is driving all of the traffic here? Yeah? I think it's a couple of things. One is that in prior years investors were under exposed to develop internationally were favoring US equities. It was a very home biased for US investors, and so international equities did relatively well last year. Investors wanted to rotate and make sure they had exposure

to it. The second thing is investors are as we'll see with the rest of the flows, Investors are increasingly looking at lower cost products. So while I e f A was by far the biggest gainer of new money, a companion product that's more expensive from I shares e f A, which has a higher expense ratio largely similar portfolio was the second biggest and outflows. But you can still see a big different about a ten billion dollar difference net inflows between those two products. So there is

still demand for developed international investing this year. Just to explain that price differential, e f A is point three t I f A is point oh eight, So doing the math there, that's four times cheaper. That's a That's enough. And what was interesting about this this year we saw a five billion dollar trade, actually five point six billion out of e f A into I f A, so almost a third of that seventeen was one trade. I

believe it was Merrill Lynch's model portfolios. They put all the f a's in and they basically were able to move that much money in the course of two or

three days. It was, as far as we know, the largest et F trade on record, and that was just because even the big fish wont it cheaper if they can, and I f A had started to gain enough liquidity over the years that it became formidable for someone big to use it, Whereas before when it first came out, even though it was cheap, it wasn't liquid enough for the big guys. But now this thing is trading about a billion a day, which is almost good enough for anybody. Yeah,

and I think it's similar. You know what's number two on the list of inflows is I E M G, which is another low cost product from I Shares. It's a cheaper version of E E M they're more incumbent emerging market product. You've got a slight difference and exposure.

The core series of products from I Shares has some small and MidCap exposure, but these still are market cap weighted, So the largest companies nest Lee for example, in I E f A and Samsung for example in I E M G are still the same large companies in the cheaper and the more expensive products. And I'm noticing another trend, which is number three I v V also I shares right, so, and actually number four s h V also I shares, So I would put before we get to s h

V because that one's unique I VV. If you look at the flows for last year, the top three were the same I F A, I M G I V V A slightly different order. But this is what we talked about a couple of weeks ago with Martin Small, what I call the four headed monster. These are dirt cheap ETFs that make up each a big slug of your portfolio. You throw a G G in there, which is your U S aggregate bond. That is number six

on the list. Those four E t f s are taking in a third to all the money because you get an entire portfolio for six seven basis points all in. But let's look at v A. V A is a competing product on there. V A would be a competitor to I E F A, and that's number six. Yeah. So again, like what I was saying, some people are rotating to international. What's the difference between I F A and V A. If you were advising somebody which one to pick and what they should think about because they're

both cheap, right, they're both cheap, so you can't. Investors just need to be mindful if you want to use I Shares and Vanguard together. Is the way that the index behind this is going to be different. So VA tracks and index that's offered more that's available from Foots, your Russell Foots, your Russell h includes and developed markets Canada as well as South Korea as part of the portfolio.

Canada is not part of I e f A. The IFA part doesn't include a C in that there's no it's not KIFA so to speak, so there's gonna be no Canadian exposure and South Korea is considered an emerging market according to M S c I And at the risk of getting too far in the weeds, if you use one I Shares product and one Vanguard product that's from this list here, you could either be doubling down your exposure in certain countries or you could be having

a whole in certain countries, depending upon how you structure that. Maybe based on the indicas bottom line, you should use them as a set right if you go I f A, you should also do i MG. If you go V E A, you should use V W O and not mix and match in that case, or do so with a full awareness that you're doubling down. So if you really like South Korea, for example, and you want exposure

to it, that's the way of doing it. Or you want to really think that Canada is a part of it, than than Yes, But certainly going into buying an ETF not just because it's the cheapest one, because a lot of the ones that are on the top gainers this year or a top asset gatherers this year are cheap, but they're not the same products. It's not just one basis point cheaper than any other. So I mean cheapness is a trend. Um. There's also some tickers that are sort of boring s h V. Yes, so s h

V is um fascinating. It's never on the top ten. This is the I share a short treasury bondy t F which holds treasuries that are really short term. It's almost like a money market funder or like putting your money under a mattress or cash and for it to take in you know, what is it six point two billion? That's a seventy eight percent increase in its assets. And this brings us to on there well earlier in the air.

Remember when volatility is going crazy, everybody when they get scared that this is the kind of stuff they run to so they put it under the mattress, and they didn't take it up right. And so ultra short term and short term debt ETFs all told talking about twenty four billion, which is way punching above their weight because is they only make up one percent of the assets. What's your take on that? You think that money is gonna come back out, Todd if the market continues to rally.

I think part of that's in there in part because the Federal Reserve is raising interest rates and has on a path to continue to raise interest rates further. And so short term and ultra short term products aren't gonna go down. You know when when the usually bonds go down in value and bond ETFs go down in value as rates spike higher, this is a flight to safety and a flight to liquidity. I don't think it's parking there.

I do think there's there's money that's gonna stay in there for a period of time, and it's you know, SHV is one of them, but we're seeing floating rate bond products. I think f l O T S is one of the top ones as well. But you're actually we're seeing it from various products. You know. JP Morgan has a product jps T as an example, that just launched late last year, and I think it's already above

five million in assets already based on net inflows. There's a lot of demand that's out there for short term products. I think that's going to continue as we move it to the second half of this game. So it's a little bit like how Eric uses jacuzzi where you just like get in, relax a little bit, and then get back in the game. Well to some I think some you know, some of the money that rotates is gonna stick.

Those people are just going to hang in the jacuzzi and until they get all wrinkled and whatnot, and then you gotta get out. Yeah, other people are gonna get out. This top ten list is a good mix and of of products that tend to cater to both the sort of quick hit types and also the more long term But SHV and s h Y or two products that

you see have grown over the last five years. So yes, it's a quick hit this year, but they've steadily grown and I think they're actually replacing other vehicles that people use back in the day. Four places to park cash or hideout from rates. Yeah, I mean some money markets obviously are a place where people have hidden out. And you know, we were obviously talking about this on an E t F show, but money is moving from et or into e t F s from from utualer than that.

It's a cultural phenomenon. This show definitely is. But because you know, if rachel going up and if the returns are gonna be lower, you want to pay as little as possible. And so these products ETFs in general, or bond ETFs tend to be significantly cheaper than actively managed mutual funds. And so if if the returns are gonna be relatively muted, you want to pay as little as possible.

So number UH six is agg which I think we've hit on with what we've been talking about with bonds UH number seven float fl LT also bonds UH number nine momentum m t u M. That's a shocker. Why well, because it's it's kind of hasn't come from oblivion per se, but it only had about, you know, a couple of billion last year. Now it's taken in, it's basically doubled in size in the past um six or seven months.

And this hasn't been the most exciting year for stock, so it is interesting that momentum would be that high on the list. Yeah, A couple of things. One, what we've seen this year is that the winners of last year in many cases have continued to move higher. And this is basically a let your winners run approach. The socks that get in have performed relatively well and have strong relative strength and strong technical metrics from a momentum perspective,

and so that's TECH. Where that was Tech at the end of the year, and Tech has done relatively well, which explains number ten, Which explains number ten as well. Uh. The second thing is we at c F r A we do individual research on on e t F fourteen hundred in total. We decided to write about M t U M for the month of June as our focus et F and we did so because we were pleasantly surprised that despite the strong run for many of the socks inside the portfolio, we still our analysts still felt

they were many of them were still undervalued. Some of those are bank companies, some of them in the financial sector. Summer technology stocks like Cisco and Intel, and I believe it actually just rebalanced UM and I saw one of your members of the team here posted on Twitter in June just examples of stocks that made it in additional technology stocks have rotated and this is not unlike the

agg or i VV products. This does rotate and rebalance every six months, and so it's something for investors to be top of the top of mind. Yeah, I'm looking right now MTUM. The tech waiting is so you're getting a lot of tech here. Okay, So there's there's some some themes that I noticed, cheapness being one, tech being another, the things that did well last year. What do you go? How do you guys feel about this top ten for influence.

I'm not surprised to see. I think many of the names are what you would expect in the market, which has been expectations of of bonds declining and value, so investors hiding out in that and then continue demand for international investing. I think the fact that we have a single factor product m t UM and we have net inflows for the triple queues, which is often seen net outflows. It's been around for a while, but his money has

flowed out of it over time. I think it's encouraging that there's still adoption of e t f s to be had. And I also think that this top ten list, when the market's a little shaky a lot of times, that will clear off some of the crazy hot trends. I think MTUM is one example where that that does, and the cues uh and what it will leave with is the huge secular shift from like high cost mutual

funds into low cost ttfs. A lot of this money was going to come over no matter what was going on, So I think this is like a baseline that you can expect to see for a while. I think half these e t f s, maybe even six of them, are probably gonna be on the top ten list for a long time. It's the floating rate debt e t F the momentum which I think will come and go. Look, you gotta I shares in Vanguard are just so dominant.

The cues on there is Investco. But outside of that, I mean, I haven't gone down to the top twenty five, but you're probably looking at four of the top twenty five or two companies. And I bet if you look at the flows in the first or I did this when there was volatility. Still of the money goes to products that charge less than twenty basis points. So even with its volatile or it's utopia, there's nothing like dirt cheap. Okay. So we talked about inflows. Part two, Let's talk about outflows.

Number one. This is a shocker spy also known as spiders, also known as the first ETF. I can keep going well when you're the largest HEATF, you know that you can obviously gain as as the pie continues to expand, or when there's a lower cost alternative, as there is. You know there's two of them actually I VV and

v O that are on the top ten list. Some of that money that's going into those respected products are coming out of spy spy and then spy tends to be used more by from a trading perspective, institutional investors that are trying to position ahead of something or using it as a hedging vehicle. So it tends to either be the biggest from an inflows or tends to be the biggest from an outflows perspective year after year just because of its scale. Yeah, I agree, Spies got a

crosshairs on it. I VV in particular is going after Spies. It's a little cheaper, right, spies point o nine percent i vvs point four pc IVV starting to trade a little more. Uh, they're gonna be going back and forth for a while. One thing about Spy though, is in the first month January was a killer month before the vall came, Spy took in nineteen billion in a month and that was like, uh, almost of the whole months flows.

So it's sort of like when Spy is on, it carries a lot of the weight, and when Spy goes away, when the hot money pulls out, what you find is Spy had nineteen billion and outflows the next month. So Spy we'll see flows in a day that would be like a lifetime for other ETFs. So a lot of the Spy volume and flows our money coming in and out using spin inst the futures. But there is this sort of secular shift away inside baseball of I v V and VU sort of maybe chipping away at spies

long term holders. Yeah, because some of the products we talked about it in the first segment, I guess the first quarter of this segment to use the basketball analogy, even though it's okay, I don't know. Is that a cricket game. I don't know. I'm an American, I don't real cricket. Sorry about that. It's a great mystery. But what we saw is, you know, the difference between the Eye Shares International and the Vanguard and National. There are differences the VOO product, I, VV and SPY all hold

the same exact stocks within the SMP five hundred. They all trade quite well. They all have significant volume behind it and type bit esque spreads, so you're really not getting the difference and needing to go into the weeds and understand what's inside it. People are buying the cheaper product. So number two is e f A. We talked about that one in the first segment. Number three l q D. What's that. L q D is the famous investment Great corporate bond d t F four billion, four point five

billion and outflows. That's eleven organic negative growth there. Here's the thing is a lot of people don't realize that how big the duration is on l q T. It's a like seven years, eight years, meaning that it's very sensitive to interest rate. So I think the FED is why you saw some money come out of l q D.

I don't know if Toddy, you've beenything to add. Yeah, I think what we saw is that the short term bond products for much of the year, in both investment grade and high yield, which we'll get to, took some of that share as investors were rotating to reduce the interest rate risk. So it's again important to not just look at the expense ratio with the liquidity of THETF, but looking at the interest rate sensitivity that a product provides. Also Number four I w D Number five easy you

both I shares. The first one the I shares Russell one thousand value et F. Second ones I shares MSc I Eurozone ETF. So both I shares. What do you guys seeing these two? Yeah, I mean the Russell one thousand series. You know, the growth and the value are relatively expensive compared to other products that are out there that are either tied to the SMP five hundred that that I shares offers, or relative to vanguards lineup of growth versus values. I think there's more of an incumbent

base that money is moving out of it. Values underperformed or you know, this year relative to growth. So I think that may play apart as well as people have. We talked about earlier about momentum and and the triple queues are much more growth oriented. Value is going to have more exposure to energy and financials. Yeah, just to give you some numbers here, I W D which is the one with the outflows, is basically down one percent. It's sort of sister product that's the growth version is

up eight point two. That there you have it. I mean, that's really the story there. Another thing I noticed about the easy you it's a europe product, right, and we have another Europe product a little bit lower on the list, which is number ten for redemptions. What's the difference between those two? Yes, I mean H E D J, which is the Wisdom Tree Europe hedge product is I think poorly named. It's not just Europe, it's actually the your

zone for what it is, so it's dominant. Has a pet peeve about this, well, I just think you should. You should know what's inside. It doesn't have UK, it doesn't have UK, doesn't have switchholand which is trying to get out of the out of the youth. So yeah, but they don't. They're not out, they're not ahead of they're not out of Europe. You know, they're still in the continent as this though. It's a great surfboard. Oh right.

The currency hedge dtfs I did refer to them as the central bank surfboards, so H E d J would basically neutralize the currency and go along the stocks. And when the central bank was you know, keeping rates low and printing money, it was a great way to play. That was it a longboard or sort of a short board. This is a long board because all you have to do is get on that puppy and just ride it like there was. You don't have to be like you know,

Kelly Slater doing all the crazy moves. It didn't require that much trading, but it ended and now you have Europeans down is down in general, but the hedge is even down worse. You got to keep mind. Currency hedge gtf s were a phenomenon. They were like the hula hoop of E T s. A couple of years ago. They ruled the top ten list. In fact, a couple of years ago and Todd you know, you see if you agree with me on this. D x J was

the number one E t F and flows. I don't think we'll ever see a non vanguard or our shares on the top of the list again. But that's how that was only three years ago for first over d x J, and I think the year after that h G d J might have been one or two. It was an amazing situation going on. Everybody was getting in on that, and that trade has sort of like unwound

big time. And but it's been a slow bleed of assets because it's a couple it's been a couple of years, and we see both d x J and h G d J here and what we're not doing a program that's about the fun closures this year, but a lot of currency hedge E t F s that came out in that wave or following that wave have now shut down. His money never flowed in to current heads international products, so I think it is a long tail for some of these products. But one more point on that um.

Only half the money that went into currency gtfs has come out. And I've seen this all Every time there's a huge trend, usually half the money sticks. People either bought the story forgot they bought it or they're hanging in there. And I think the currency hedged wave taught people that they have a lot of dollar exposure and maybe they do want half of their international hedged. Do you think todd that half of your international exposure, whether it's e M or it developed, should be hedged or

should you try to trade around it? Yeah, I think it's gonna come down to do you understand the risk that's out there? So so some people will want to have it. You can do it from a pure currency hedge perspective, and the I Shares suite of products and the DWS the formerly Deutsche Bank products do a currency hedge on that. The Wisdom Tree ones do a double down on the currency hedge because or the currency impact, because there's exposure to not just reducing the euro or

the or the end. But these are the companies inside it are significant exporters, so the revenues are coming from outside of Europe in the case of the European product and outside of Japan in the case of the Japanese product. So I think that's I think there's a role for these in in someone's portfolio, but you have to be aware that that trend is gonna go against you just as much as it's gonna go for you. Okay, So

number six on the list j n K junk. I think that's kind of funny because when we're talking about inflows bonds everywhere talk about outflows different type of bonds in massive flight. Well, yeah, j n K, I think is much more like an equity. UM. It's also got a duration of I think four or five years, which isn't as bad as l q D, meaning that it has got some rate risk. But ultimately, I think high yield just got hurt in the sell off of from equities.

And because you did see some flows into UM the cheaper junk bond e t F h y LB, which is the Deutsche Bank low cost So even the junk bond space, you do see this sort of hot monny moving around to where performances, but you see the secular change out of H y G and j n K into the cheaper h y LB, which is twenty basis

points of their forty. So j n K I think got hit by two things at once, being a little pricey and by just people wanting out of junk because uh, there was more of a risk off trade, especially for the first three months. Yeah, in relation to J and K versus the short term and floating rate bond products are are significant ends of the of the spectrum on it, so you're you're taking on much more risk from a

credit perspective. UH investors favored much more of the reducing the duration the interest rate sensitivity of the portfolio in the first half of two thousand and eighteen. Was h y G, which is number nine in the list, affected by that double whammy as well. Totally both of them J n K, H y G kind of sort of mirror each other, right, Yeah, they're like, um, they're brothers who don't like each other. Yeah. Yeah, they a few I shares, always trashing jan K and vice versa. But

they tend to their flows move very much similar. I think h y G is this sort of bigger, more popular product, but they're both, Um, it's not surprising they're both on the list with the outflows. That's what made h y L B s inflow so interesting, which was that they you know, this cheap high yell, but bondy

t F took in a billion. That just goes to show you that some people are still allocating and that's what makes all flows tough to read, is because you've got people trading and you've got people allocating, and allocating typically is more immune from what's going on in the market. So we're trying to suss out long term investment. Absolutely, So I think both J and K and H y G are not used that much by allocators, So that

reflects trading trends. Uh. Okay, So number seven d x J We're gonna skip that one because we've talked about it with the head stuff. Number eight, this one's surprising to me. A Vanguard real Estate et F v n Q. Why is that on the list? Well, v n Q saw two point five billion outflows, and um, this is a rate story. Basically, people rushed into reats, which are

passed through securities, which yields six percent five percent. So when you can get you know, three percent in a ten year treasury, it makes that a lot less appealing, not from everybody, but certainly some people that holds reets and yields five or six percent. It was being used as a surrogate place for income. In fact, what's interesting is if you look at sectors, everybody's shocked to hear this the sector with the most assets is real estate,

not tech or energy or anything like that. Because this low rate environment, everybody needed yield, and reets was a huge one thing that was reliable, right right, So this is a little bit of an unwinding of what we many called the thirst for yield trade because it had more yield than a bond. Oh a lot. Yeah, I was yielding more than a junk bond. And you've seen that. It's not on the list, But consumer staples, which is another defensive sector I think had significant as collectively had

significant outflows in the first half of the year. Also, it's interesting also just to point out, is that V and Q has been changing. The index that's behind it UH is changing, and so it actually has added in some specialty read companies American Tower, Crown Castle, some more growth oriented companies, and that may not be as appealing for some investors that wanted the defensive, more traditional read exposure.

No idea if anyone's actually selling because of it, but there is a change behind this that investors that may be considering V and Q may want to be be aware of. Closing thought about these outflows, well, my closing thought is this significantly more money going into the inflows

the money that's going out of the outflows. So we still are seeing a very good year behind it, but it is still a it's a trade towards lower cost products, and it's been more defensive oriented fixed income products that really shined in the first half, and taking on credit or interest rate risk through fixed income hasn't been rewarding

investors this year, and money is flowing out as well. Yeah, if you look at the top ten, I mean I read it as again, uh, a migration for high cost to low cost as well as just this rising rate environment that those are the two big I think us straws that are stirring the drink. Okay, so we've talked about influence, we've talked about outflows. Let's talk about some of the top performing e t f s year to date. Right, we've had a lot of tickers, a little bit like

alphabet soup. We're gonna have a few more yet, and we're not going to look at leveraged or fixed vixed products. Right, Yeah, that's not really that's sort of like um counting. It's like they're using steroids. We just want to look at the natural long only kind of stuff that did it the real way, whereas fixed and leverage they can go up, they're usually gonna be at the top, in the bottom of the list, right, no muscle creams, Okay, we want

Roger Marris, not Barry Bonds. So based on what we're looking at, P s c H is top performing e t F here today up twenty nine. I had to look it up. These are two kers that I don't have memorized. And you know, usually even in the long only area, if it's gonna be the top of list,

it's probably something very specific and maybe concentrated. This is power shares S and P small cap healthcare and looks like it's getting some kick from biotech, it's getting some kick from UM having small caps that they've been doing better this year, but ultimately it's doing a lot better than both of those. So it's got some stock picking probably help here by just owning some stocks that have

gone up. Maybe there's been a few acquisitions in there, but ultimately this is sort of like a lottery ticket coming in. Todd, did you know that one? I did know that one of the small cap sector products I think are quite interesting that make you better analysts than Eric it means I knew the one that one on the list will be some others on the list. I had to look at myself because some of these are are few and far between on this. But he's just trying to draw drive a wedge between us where wants

to see some fireworks. It's fine. There's only a handful of et F analysts that will talk on just about any topic. And Eric and I found and you found two of them in the room, and you haven't locked the door. So small cap healthcare, you've got a couple of things that are working out. Their small caps are doing relatively well. Domestic focused as opposed to international. Uh, there's been some international tensions that have been going on.

And you're getting diversification though, so this is not just a pure single industry product. You are getting not only biotech, but you're getting healthcare equipment. But when you're not seeing the larger cap Johnson and Johnson merks that people tend to think of with healthcare stocks, good product. There's a lot of good small cap products that are out there. The number two top performing e t F here today x web what's that also, by the way, Yes, so

this is um uh fairly new product. It's the spider SMP Internet et F and I think f d N is right behind it. That's the first trust Internet. Look, this brings us back to the endless tech rally. This is an Internet E t F S. By the way, if you're looking for a fang play, that's where you go. Internet ets typically have most of the fang stocks, if not all of them, in high way to That's what's been driving these I think that's pretty much the story here. Yeah, and I mean this is an example of this can

be hidden gems out there. X web I think has under twenty million in assets under management. It's a relatively new product. People may have missed it. However, you may not want to chase that performance because it could be fleeting. You know, the tech rally has been strong, but as we talked about it, you know, it could reverse itself.

And just one more thing about the Internet ETFs F d N, which has a longer history, which is number three year today and change right, let's stretch back ten years just to explain this is just like a relentless loop we're on with Internet. Is that this thing is up five two in ten years. The market is up a hundred and six, So I mean it's basically lapped at by three or four times, and that's just what's amazing.

Um having Internet and some in biotech, which I think is driving some of the healthcare ETF if you go back and I'm telling the analysts every year forget flows, but in performance, those two areas are just relentless. They're they're either near the top or at the top. Biotech, Internet and it's just the same thing this year. Yeah, I mean, and the benefit of those industries tend to do relatively well. Obviously with e t S you get

the benefits of diversification. So you mentioned about m and a activity that can be happening within this space specifically small caps or or and the spider product x web is an equal weighted product, so you're all going to

get some small cap exposure to it. Not everything is going to go up, but you get the benefits of diversification, and you can look inside these products and get to know these companies all right, Eric, when you look over the rest of this list of top performing ones you're to date, are there any other e t F that pop to you? Yeah, nib every now and then you just get some outrageous commodity that just either there's a number, by the way, Yeah, this is the iPath Coco point

eight percent here to do. Yeah, this is the Coco E t N. And you know, so occasionally these kind of wacky commodities that you forgot about make it on the US. Like coffee was all the rage maybe like two or three years ago in my morning. Right, you think coffee would be like on it every year, given how much people drink it. But coco um, you know, look, it's probably someplace where there's um a supply issue and

then boom it spikes up. So it's interesting. It reminds me, by the way, and the reason I think it's it's just how ETFs have wrapped up everything. And I would be careful investing in like a Coco E t M because it's holding futures, it's rolling, and typically it's down. If I go look at the five year performance of the Coco E t N Todd, what do you think the performances over the last five years, I would think you would have lost money down eight percent um, which

isn't bad. It's better than I thought. But a lot of this is from rolling and it's very complicated, but these commodity futures tend to pop up with the ones that tracked the single commodity. You'll find them here and there on the top twenty. And I think what you also see here, based on the Bloomberg data that you made available to help me out for this effort, is his net outflows. So usually you see money chase, seeing performance.

This is actually people take either taking chips off the table of a relatively small product to begin with, We're gonna take our chips off the table. Todd rosen Booth, thank you so much for your good to be with you guys, Joel. I know you like your plugs. You do business week plugs all the time. I have one for myself. You know, we do audio, we have TV, but we occasionally do in person appearances. It's like catching this live and um my colleague Tom Sara Vegas, who

was a guest on one of the episodes. He's great. He's going to be touring Europe and we have four events planned for four major cities there in Amsterdam, Frankfort, Paris, and Zurich uh starting next week through the next two weeks. So if you are in Europe and anywhere and you're one of those cities and you want to go. You can go on the terminal and type SCMR to sign up, or just send me an email ed Baltunists at Bloomberg dot net and I will get you signed up for

the event. It's free and there's gonna be really cool. We've got some issuers there, Vanguard, etcetera. UM, so check it out. Thanks for listening to Trillions until next time. You can find us on the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, and whever else you like to listen to podcasts. We'd love to hear from you. We're on Twitter, I'm at Joel Weber Show, He's at Eric Baltunas, and you can get Todd at Todd c f r A. Trillions

is produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Francesca Leedy is the head of Bloomberg podcast Bye