The 2019 ETF Halftime Report

he uh coming like a recurring character. I like it, right, and and here he is again. Yeah, he's kind of like Tom Hanks on Family Ties. You know how he came in once in a while, is the Yes, that is exactly pretty good reference. Right. Yeah. We also have another character who is also a frequent guest, Sarah Ponzac from Bloomberg News also has a podcast of our own,

now hosting a podcast called Welcomes Up Channel's Plague. So what we want to do is talk to Todd and Sarah about a couple observations from the first half of the year, and maybe even a couple I don't know of corystal Ball style predictions exactly this weekend Brilliance twenty nineteen halftime report. Todd Sarah, thanks for joining on Trilliance observation number one big observation. Who wants it? Yeah, I'll start. So this has really been the year of fixed in

comm ETFs. More than half of the net inflows have gone into fixed in comm ETFs this year. It's about of the overall et F pie. But what's quite compelling to us at t F A is a couple of things. One is the range of products that have gained interest.

You've got high yield, you've got long term treasuries like t L T and I e F. You've got the ultra short products that were popular in two thousand and eighteen have stayed popular bill SHV along with the active ones like mint and jps T. And then the second part of this is again the range of products. So using Bloomberg datly earlier this week, I saw, you know, more than a hundred fixed in com ETFs have gathered over a hundred million dollars of net new money this year.

So it's not just the big boys that are gathering assets, but we're seeing a range of products, both large and small, that are popular and that's a great sign for ETF adoption. Why what's happening, Well, you've got a couple of things happening. Many investors are expecting the Fed to not only have paused, but actually cut interest rates. We had see afraid don't think that's going to be happening as aggressively as the

broader market does. But you have investors that are willing to take on risk in order to get the yield. We've seen credit the fault risk be relatively low. And then you've got folks that don't believe that aren't willing to hide under the mattresses, uh the way they did in two thousand and eighteen. And so both both camps are winning out again, a sign that e t F s are held, not often just traded. I'll jump in on this because the love for fixed income was part

of one of my observations. To put a number on it. We've seen about seventy billion dollars go into fixed income so far in the first half, and that's the most for any half ever, So that gives you an idea. And now the amount of assets under management across fixed income products is now at an all time high, so around seven hundred and fifty billion dollars, and as Todd said, it's unbelievable. You see love for short term products, you see love for long term products, even in the belly

of the curve. And it just goes to show that at this point in time, yes, a lot of people do believe that interest rates will be lower for longer, but it's still not set in stone. And I'll jump in here too with a couple of comments. Fixed income relative to itself, these et f s are definitely it's a banner year their own record to have their most

flows ever. But when you use it relative to US equities, I find sometimes that numbers are touch distorted because of the January outflows that were a result of tax loss harvesting. If you take those away, it's not quite as drum attic. But that said, it is dramatic and it's worth pointing out. What's also interesting is active fixed income mutual funds have

also been hauling in the cash. I think they could be right around the seventy billion mark based on the numbers we have so far extrapolating into June, so that would be a banner year all around for fixed income and the idea that it's across the curve is also interesting. Normally it was all ultra short and short. Some years it's all long term, some years it's high yield. It this the diversity is interesting. Geo VT is a ticker

that to me represents this year. Geo VT is the I Shares Treasury et F which invest in all treasuries across the curve right from A to Z, and that is taking in four point six billion. It's uh. I think it's just squeeze into the top ten of inflows and it's not that big, so that one's punching way above its weight. And to me, that's representative of this year. If I had to pick a sort of poster child for this year and flows, it would probably geo VT. And what do we think the second half of the

gear is gonna look like for fixed income? We're getting to the predictions already on it. So we think that we think money is going to continue to pour in, so even if the FED does not, So we don't believe that the FED is going to be conversation ultimately is about the FED. Well, it's it's about the FED, and it's also about investors using e t f s uh, and fixing comm ETFs from more of a strategic perspective.

So you do see a tactical shift based on what's going to happen with the FED and the dot plots and things to that effect. But you are seeing some of these low cost core products continue to gather assets

regardless of what's going on with the yield curve. And so we think we're seeing products like A G, G and B and D from ice Shares in Vanguard respectively, among other products that are just increasingly being used as a replacement in the institutional marketplace and being being a replacement for some mutual funds or for individual bonds as well. I mean, and all of these are products that have been around for a little bit in fixed income space. Is there any is there any new products that have

been kind of a shocker or a surprise for you? Well, I mean when the fixed incomes. Yeah, Well, we're seeing more and more of these ultra short active products that gained some traction in two thousand eighteen that likely we're gonna be just parking money and I think we expected that and others did as well, and we've seen investors continue to move into those products. So Wisdom Tree has a floating rate UH treasury oriented product that that skyrocketed

in two thousand and eighteen. Us f R has really somebody say floating rate. Yeah, but you know what, it's continued to pour in money. And we've seen JPST from JP Morgan other products. These are relatively new products, these are not three years old, and yet they're gathering significant assets.

And the fact of the matter is, yes, a lot of this has to do with where interest rates are going, but it also has to do with where we are in the economic cycle and where we are in the market cycle, because as Todd mentioned, people also use these strategically. So people now, if they truly believe that we are towards the end of the economic cycle, which pretty much is consensus at this point in time, you could say, although there's people who don't believe in the economic cycle either,

I think it will go on forever. This this time is different. This time is different, but still people are going to these products to use as a hedge. So yes, positioning regarding interest rates, but also just a strategic hedge. And if the FED is accommodative as they have been, it's gonna be good for all all of this. But if they do get hawkish suddenly and people start freaking out, it's going to as as everybody said, you will see flows two different products, but it probably will take down

the overall number in my opinion. So the seventy billion we saw to me could double to one forty if the Feds, you know, relaxed accommodative. If the Fed turns hawk ish, I could see that struggling, maybe ending up ending up the year a hundred as people as the outflows from t LT and those guys maybe get offset by the inflows to the short duration stuff. All right,

who's another big observation I can come in. It kind of ties in with the whole fixed income bent because even if you look at equity flows so far this year, where we have seen the focus is unbelievably defensive if you look on a sector level, and then also if you look at factors as well. So to give you an idea, the top sectors flow wise so far this year our real estate, communications, utilities, and consumer stables. Now communications, yes it holds some of those bang names, but also

those dividend yielding telecom names as well. Every other sector has seen outflows. So it's pretty amazing that there is just a unison want for defense. And then on the smart beta side, we have just seen massive flows into low volatility funds. It's like the first half is the first half year of the low volatility funds because so far they've taken in more than eleven billion dollars. It's the most for any half going back to I believe. So it just shows you that on the equity side

where we are seeing flows is the defensive side. And to I'm in on that. Two things on that just to first of all, low volatility ETFs are the most sellable thing ever created. What person who's like sixty doesn't want like the market with like a smoother ride. It's like you could sell the correct Yeah, it's like diet coke, right, It's like zero calorie. It's such a sellable thing. So there's an evergreen nature to low vall sweeping the world.

The other thing was on those sectors though, I will say that the real estate to me is also maybe FED related as well. And yeah, so you get this because at the beginning of the year, when the FED got dovish around January fourth ish, right at the beginning, we saw this thirst for yield trade comeback, whether that be those sectors, the fixed income ETFs UH, junk bond ETFs,

inflows UH, and that was kind of dying. We actually wrote a note in late about how the thirst for yield trade was possibly over um and then boom, it came right back. Even if you look in smart beta, so low ball is your number one, but below that is multi factor, so diversification at its best. And then

it's dividend yields. So these dividend e t f s. And that's just another case to be made that when you have really low interest rates, you have a ten year two percent or below, people want yield and if you can go to the equity market, still take a little bit of risk, but be guaranteed a payout, that's clearly attractive at this point in time. What I think is also interesting is you cited this is strong since

two thousand seventeen. What that means also is two thousand sixteen was a great year for the first half for low volatility ETFs. But what was happening in two thousand the first half two thousand and sixteen is the broader market and the financial press outside of Bloomberg was freaking out that there was too much money going into low folatility ets they were actually driving the overall market, which is of course absurd given how small these e t

F products are. Three fast forward three years, we're seeing the money going into it, and people are now applauding e t F investors for taking more of a lower risk approach, even though we're up seventeen percent in the broader market. That's a sign of some maturity that's out there. And I think it's also just a sign that investors are willing to wanting to have their cake and needed too. So you still want to be part of the marketplace

and be up, but be down less. And and these products held up quite well in May, you know, when the market became much more volatile. I will point out though that one of the most popular low volatility funds us m V. Eric and I were talking about this the other day because actually outperformed the SMP this year. So when you think of low vall, you think of safety. You're tracking the market, but maybe you get a little bit less of a return. This year, you're actually getting

more than the SPRED So it's pretty amazing. Yeah, I mean, that's got a heavy weighting still relatively high weighting, and technology for a defensive portfolio because it reduces the risk within each of those sectors. So you do have exposure to some of the growthier sectors, just in a more defensive way, so companies like MasterCard instead of Apple, for example, within technology. And but just to go back to the craze of where low Ball took in like forty billion

or something. Um, don't quote me on that. It's it was a lot, uh, you know, relative to its size that year, they were outperformed by eight nine. This year it's two. So it's interesting that they've taken in so much money despite not not crushing it per se. So to me, this is more about the psychology of hey, we're late in the market. How long can the FED

keep the party going. It's like the party feels like it's four in the morning now, and I know the FED just brought some new beer, but it's like, dude, I gotta get some sleep. This thing is gonna this thing is gonna bust up soon. So I think there's a general defensiveness despite the returns to talk about your rave days, is that what you're trying to say, The late nineties. Oh yeah, So this defensive posturing, though, how

much your investors missing out on? What they what we've seen so far this year, So it's pretty amazing because you look at the SMP five and the SMP is up sevent or so we just recently hit new highs. However, much of that has been driven at least in the back half of the half, So I guess the second quarter of the year you would say, has been driven by gines and defensive sectors. So by positioning in these areas, they're actually don't seem to be missing out on all

that much. Because if you look at since May, and May was when everything related to trade started to fall apart a bit, we saw a little bit of a pullback since then, where the outperformance really has been is in utilities, is in real state, is actually in consumer staples. So by positioning in these places that you would think maybe you're not going to get that much of a return on the upside, but you get protection on the downside,

we're actually seeing participation in the upside as well. Yeah, and with utilities and real estate in particular, I will leave consumer stables to the side for this. They are defensive, They offer the yield, but these are also US centric place so we've had the trade fears that have been going on pretty much all of the first half of the year. The easiest way to hide from that is just to stay as local as possible, and you're local

utility or your assignment property. You're not getting the same international exposure that you would within technology, which was has been a strong performer, but oviously has been much more volatile in the last couple of months. So which sectors have been the biggest losers from an outflow protective well, from an outflow perspective, the worst our financials, energy and materials.

So that is just a clear cyclical play. I mean, you want to look at the areas that are tied in with the economy vs. Are them, and it shows you that E t F investors are a little bit worried at the moment. They don't want to be anywhere near these three because we've seen some pretty sizable outflows in those areas as well. Okay, Eric, do you have an observation from the first half. I do, uh, and I'll go a different track. We just did flows. I think we covered a lot. Let's go to launches we'd

like to see what's launching. It gives us a flavor of what's going on in the ETS space. There was more launches than I thought, hundred and twenty nine this year. That puts us on track for what to six the ish that would about about tie the record for annual launches. I'm surprised by this, given how rough the fee war has gotten and how some we saw some launches that

came out at zero fee and negative fee. I thought this would put a little more fear into the bones of people who had e t F s lined up, But they're coming out like crazy still, probably because the e t F continue to take in most of the flows. Uh. Interesting on the top ten list, like so the new launches, which are the rookies of the year, Which ones are taking in the most cash? Barely any big names? I mean yes, the top two are E s G. That's also a shocker. Um I've been barished on E s G,

but these two have overcome that. It's the I Shares and the Deutsche Bank, mostly because all that money came from one investor, a European pension funds, so institutions could be the way for E s G. Four that's interesting observation from those. Also two big thematic ETFs in the top ten, the global X cloud computing. There was already one of the market, but the global X came in and it's already got four hundred million. That is a

shocker to me. It charges the sixty eight basis points and it shows you can still innovate and win because this one is much more targeted than Sky the first trust one, and it's doing a lot better this year. I think it's up six percent for the Sky flat because it goes after the smaller, more pure play companies.

That's interesting. And then finally on the list, you've got Yolo, which is the marijuana et F. I was shocked it took people so long to do a me too potty t F. I was this is probably the most no brainer launch you could ever think of, because there's definitely enough interest. Mj is now a billion dollars ish, I would be not I wouldn't be surprised if we see a couple more potty tfs come out all out of

the robotics craze of a year ago. Um, but as they keep coming out, they're gonna law of diminishing returns will kick in, but the tickers should be really something. I'm anticipating some crazy tickers in that space. But anyway, on the flip side, there's been ninety one closures. That's also shockingly high. If you extrapolate that, you get to one eight and one eighty would crush the record. I think the old records about a hundred and twenty five.

So this tells me that yes, there's a lot of innovation and a lot of excitement, but there's a lot of Darwinism going on, and you have an industry I think that's maturing. That's my takeaway on that. Well, you've got two camps in that you you kind of glossed for the cheap products that have come out this year, and for understandable reasons, because they haven't been gathering as

much assets the ultra cheap or free products. Maybe we'll come back to that one later on, but thematic has really been the way of investing for launching new products because you can be differentiated in how you interpret the themes we now have. I think now our third and our fourth related gaming et F will probably see ten at some point because that's such a broad open area. I triggered myself on this. I just don't get it.

But what I do get. But but you're a fan of the five quality large cap smart Beta fund, I am because it's the in house expertise that puts me to sleep. I will, I will blow your mind right now if you don't get the gaming thing. I have a younger brother, actually he was a professional gamer. Well now he's retired, but believable, and this is a this

is a thing. I'm sure, this is I'm sure, but we now again we have now more gaming related et s out there than home building related e t f s. What I just think is interesting is that we're seeing a lot of these innovations that are out there. I shares his launched products in the thematic and trend oriented space.

We've seen State Street launch it. We're seeing some of the bigger boys come in, and that's gonna against spur additional innovation and adoption because you've got to find where the puck is going to uh to skate to it and and these smaller firms are really doing a good job of launching these products. In my view, the real reason thematics are are becoming big business is the modern

portfolio is real low cost core. Right, you know, you've got this building block of like a baby five bits for the whole thing, International, Developed, emerging markets, US equity bonds. Then to have fun on the outside, to try for a little outfit, you could do a factor factor e T F. You could do a single country or thematics and I think thematics again for advisors, are easy to explain. You can buy into the story and then you put

them on top. That's why we like the hardcore thematic ones because we're assuming you're using it as a little hot sauce on top of the portfolio, so we say you might as well go all the way and try to really capture. So that's why that thematic capture score that we create I think is crucial and hopefully you know, helps people navigating because now a lot of these categories have three or four e T s to pick from. Robotics, cybersecurity,

cloud computing, you name it. But what the other part of that from an asset management perspective is you can charge forty five, fifty sixty eight basis points for these products and still be able to gather assets as opposed to even though we've seen competition the floor is considerably higher for these products overall, whereas I Shares has three and four and five basis point products. It's a lot harder to become profitable if you're a public company that way.

That's true, and that gets us to the shiny object stuff we've talked about. If you're hardcore and concentrated, you have the shiny object potential because you're in smaller companies. And when some of these products hit, they hit big.

I mean, they don't perform by two or three percentage points, they are performed by twenty percentage points, so nobody cares that it charges sixty And that's the beauty of a thematic et F from an issuer standpoint and from the investor that said, the problem with thematic et f s if they are concentrated is you really have to buy into the story because you will see volatility. Like if you're into robotics, are you really into robotics? Are you

into performance chasing? How many people can stomach when those things have a rough run because say, hi, beta stocks are selling off currently you have to buy and solar energy is happening with that this year right Look at tannis Yere, one of the best performing ets out there. Yeah, but if you're gonna swing for the fences, you better make contact because you're gonna you're gonna strike out quite a lot. So there is a catch twenty two in going for the goal with thematic ETFs. You need a

stomach for it. But it probably makes more sense to go and pure and capture the industry because a lot of those stocks typically when they go pure, they're not in other big indexes, so you're getting unique exposure. Yeah. I mean, well, Eric talked about from a flows perspective, the E s G products and they got the money from institutional investors, but US s G, which is that

was the cheapest of those two products. I believe that s USL cut the fee as well, but ten basis points for E s G exposure that's broadly diversified across the sectors. E s G has been off on the sidelines in part because they charge a premium fee. If you're going to compete on price for an E s G product, you're likely to get further adoption. And I

think we're gonna see that throughout the year. And let me bring up one other new launch that this is the e t F to watch b b U S. Todd and I have a bet on this one and how fast it will grow. It's only thirty million now, but JP Morgan launched this thing, and if yeah, I mean it could grow quickly. And here's this is fascinating. B b US is literally a straight knockoff of the SMP five hundred. Have you ever seen coming to America

McDonald's versus McDowell's. This is McDowell's of the SMP. It's so close that they literally have the same, like ten point performance through the first core or the stocks are almost the same. I mean, there's almost no overlap. Why are they doing that? Why would they do that? The Golden arcs, the Golden arcs, the Golden arches right. Anyway, if you look, JP Morgan is the largest owner of SPY. They own something like I want to say, twenty billion dollars or the v S p Y. That's a lot

of their advisor business. It's very likely some of that is going to be converted over to b b U S. And this is this b y O a bring your own assets. Thing we talk about is more and more issuers that hold SPY and i VV these companies that have large advisor networks. If they launched their own McDowell's versions of these, you could see a big ceiling on

the black Rock Vanguard juggernaut. I'm not sure will happen widespread, but if b bus starts to take off and everybody accepts it as not like having a huge conflict of interest, which I don't think it does because it's cheaper, does the same thing. It's not like you're putting your clients into something more expensive or different. Um, but b b us is want to watch this could be a ten billion dollar et F in a couple of years. Yeah, I mean the JP Morgan is launching or expanding a

retail oriented program for investments later on the summer. I forgot the exact date, and that's the time period. You know, you're gonna have an asset allocation strategy that has b bus as as the core for the US. You're gonna have a your product b b EU, which is out

there from them. They've got Canada, they've got Japan. You could build an asset allocation strategy using JP Morgan's owned products, and it's highly likely that JP Morgan is the one who's going to make that available for their client, and if I didn't mention b bus charges two basis points, that's just under VOO and IBV cheapest, cheapest like the Big the Big Mick, Okay, Sarah, any other observations. So I have one more observation that I just find really

strange or not strange, but very unexpected. And two reporters that were on the new side, Rachel Evans and build on a hazrec found that if you look at the ten top performing e t s this year, eight of the ten of them have less than a hundred million dollars in assets. So it goes to show you you don't have to be big to be great. Now, Yes, a lot of these funds are leveraged three times leveraged products you could imagine, but one of them is are you s L So that's a direction daily Russiable three

times shares fund. When a lot of people think about investing outside of the US, you hear about India a lot, of course, you hear about China, emerging markets, Europe. You don't hear about Russia too often. But there is this fundamentally good, strong economic story for Russia, and the fund is up or more this year, so pretty amazing and I think it's something people wouldn't really expect. That reminds me of last episode where we had Sylvia Jablonsky on maker of the three x E t F. So just

a warning, these are power tools daily usage. Uh, Sarah just did a great job promoting the return. But let's just they're not supposed to hold on to it for the whole ser second series months. They could be zero. But Todd, how's yours? There's a good reason that this product has little assets. Three times leveraged a country that the United States is not on good terms with stuff. He doesn't like it. He could serve him a Davis

large cap and he's happy. Everyone should go to take back. Okay, so if it's half time, we got to talk about the second half? What are you guys watching? Yeah, I mean the exciting thing to us is that in the first half we didn't touch on it, but in the first half of the year we've got the regulatory approval for non transparent et f s. I think you guys

may have covered that beforehand on the show. Uh. These are e t fs that will be disclosed as infrequently of the holding's perspective as mutual funds, and there's a number of big boy asset managers that are lining up to work with Presidian that have have a license agreement.

I think there's a couple of dozen firms out there that are doing this them that have not offered ETFs to begin with, and I think that's going to cause not you know, not only new products to launches, as Eric touched on of breaking the record, but we're gonna see some of these firms dip their toe in or

more aggressively move into the e t F market. From like American Century that has already e t f s today is likely to expand their lineup we have from like American Funds, it doesn't have anything to do that. And so I know, the easy argument is nobody wants these products, but people want mutual funds. Easy it though, it's the correct argument. I mean, look, I feel I don't want to be barrassed on these because I'm willing

to be open minded in surprise. But here's the question to ask you, Look, some of these a lot of these firms you just mentioned already have transparent active ETFs and nobody's buying them, and obviously they are mutual funds are seeing outflows a lot of them. So it's like the metaphor I uses, You've just made this incredibly awesome, new, state of the art dog food ball, but the dog doesn't want the food in it. The dog has to

want the food in the bowl. Yeah, but I think who's gonna want it in the part of why that the issue is is that the firms are not committing to it, so that many of these firms that have a small et F presence within a larger asset management company are not putting the resources, the marketing, the distribution teams to support those efforts. If they're can work directly connected with the mutual funds UH and the people who are advocating and educating about those mutual funds. I really

think you're gonna see greater adoption that's out there. And there's a whole host of advisors that would be very happy to buy an American funds e t F because they love American funds. There just isn't an ETF available for for them. That's the advisor I'm not sure I think is A is A I don't think that demand is interesting to me. The distribution, the relationships, the hey, this is better than the old thing. I get that, but grassroots, organic demand from that sort of classic et

F investor, I'm not sure. The other question is could they convert their mutual funds to this or will they move money over? And I just don't think some of these firms have the stomach to move something from a higher revenue source to a lower revenue source. You know, I could be wrong. I just I see these struggling over time, Sarah, I will go the complete opposite direction.

And something that's amazed me all year long has been the I p o E t F. Because it feels like everyone hears names like Uber, you hear names like Lift, which didn't have the best I p s, and people think that it's been a rocky start, but it really has it. I mean I p o s are off to an unbelievable year. The I p o E t F up more than thirty and I think that this is really going to be a very hot area going forwards.

We're supposed to see more launches, and if the environment that we have seen so far this year continues, where people are actually willing to really reach for risk and get on on these funds, we could see more well from a performance standpoint, they're likely to be driven more because some of these companies will have to have to wait a little bit of time before they get added to the SMPI index or other indexes that have much

more money behind it. And so you'll it's still surprising that there's one kind of a second one from First Trust that's an i p o E t F given the range of products that are at, the new stocks that are out there, and the and demand four I p o s. So I think we're gonna see I think we should see more of them and again surprising I p s that still could happen in the second half of the year. We work among them fp X to me, at these they're underrated. Um, they hold these

stocks them anywhere else. Yeah, they hold them for the two or three I call catch and release. You know, they grab the top releases really long. It's four years for for that one, and you only need to be right a couple of times because like you only need a couple of facebooks to totally make up for the deads. But yeah, that that et F. Look at the performance

of FPX over the past fifteen years, unbelievable. My prediction is that US equity e t f s are going to regain control and knock out this fixed income narrative and and lead the year in flows by the end of the year. And I'll tell you why. It's it is bold. Wait, that's something that's sent of the overall et F pie is gonna continue to do that. It's been it's against like your last twenty tweets, it's against the whole narrative we've been hearing now is it's fixed

income fixed and come US equity sucks. I just don't see it happening. Here's what I I just think Trump's desire to use the stock market as a campaign item a big one, is going to make him make the trade deal happen. It's going to make him sort of coerce the FED to keep right slow. And that's going to get the trading crowd involved. Because if you look at flows, we've divided them from allocators buying whold ETFs

to the ones that traders use. The ones that traders use have seen a negative outflows of fifteen billion this year. The allocators are doing their thing forty five. They're going to continue. But if the trading crowd comes back in and buys like the I w M s and the spies. That's what's missing from this year and a little bit from last year. If that crowd comes in hard, I think that's when you see US Equity E t F sort of regain that sort of um, you know, lead

dog aspect that they're normally used to. But we'll it could go the other direction. That's elections in over a year. We still got plenty of time for him to make but he's gonna be seeing the debates and people talking trash and he's gonna I'm telling you this is just a complete theory by me, and that it also indicates that that the fete is an independent which is kind of, you know, blasphemy, But I'm just saying my thoughts. Todd.

I I think there's no question that US Equity ETF are going to dominate in the second half of the year. I think what we saw thus far in June is that's been UH investors have gravitated towards it. But when you're seventy of the overall marketplace, it's like saying you think Golden State is going to return to the finals, which they have done in the last three years. Yes,

and I was rooting for them, and that's great. But the underdog that's out there, it's like perhaps picking the Philadelphia seventies six years a year ago and rooting for them is as some of them Michigan to lose the World Series. So we're taping this for everybody's purposes. We're taping this on the eve of what is the last game of the College World Series and Michigan. I have to admit that I'm Sarah and I are both proud in Michigan alums. It's Michigan had a baseball team. He

went a few months ago. I wasn't paying attention to it, but I'll happily jump on that bandwagon. Of course. Yes, but they don't play in June. It ends the season's over. These guys are spoiled rotten. They've got baseball now on top of basketball and football. I got Runners is like and everything is including like field hockey. That's me complaining you guys. You guys are spoiled rotten. Go Blue Todd, Sarah, thanks for joining us, and Trillion, thanks for having it,

Thanks a lot, Thanks for listening to trillions. Until next time, you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and wherever else you like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. We're on Twitter, I'm at Joel Webber Show, He's at Eric ball Tunis. You can get Todd at Todd c f r A and Sarah at Sarah Ponzack. Trillions is produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Princessica Levie is the head for Bloomberg podcast Tit