A trigger is essentially an open wound. It's an open wound that hasn't healed yet. So think about having an open wound, like I've got one on my hand right now, anytime that I rub it up against anything, I feel it. That's what a trigger is like. It's an emotional wound. It's still open, it has not healed yet. Welcome back, well come back to another episode of till the wheels fall off. I am Matt. We are talking triggers today. We've actually
done an episode on this. And if you haven't ever heard that one, I would suggest you go back and check that one out. Our first episode on triggers was more general about life triggers, social media triggers, things that happen in your day to day world. Today, we're going to be discussing more of what we focus on here lately anyway, maybe what we focus on from here on out as because back then we didn't really know what we were doing when we started a podcast.
Yeah, but we're talking more about triggers in a relationship where there drugs and alcohol involved over a long period of time, and I know that coming from me is not going to mean nearly as much. So I love these episodes where
Paige gets to talk. You say like that.
I love it. I love your input. And I like being able to riff off of you versus the other way around.
All right, well, let's get into it.
Let's do it. Okay, so first of all, tell us where this came from. Oh,
okay, what where the idea came from? Yeah, okay. So we got a lot of, we got a lot of DMS. And we've gotten a lot of people in the community that have brought up the fact that they're triggered. And this is for people who are like in recovery, their partner is sober. And they're working on, you know, sobriety and recovery. So we've had people reach out to us and ask us, How do you cope with these triggers? And that's where I got the idea. I made a tick tock.
Oh, you did? Yeah. You had a really good Tiktok on this. Yeah. And
then, and I felt like I wanted to really elaborate on it. So that's where this idea came back. I was like, I had a lot to say about this. Behind
the scenes, y'all. Oh, my God spent hours going through this tic tock video, trying to condense it into just a couple of minutes. And I don't even know how you finally got it out. Because you were so frustrated. Like it's too long. It's too much. Should have just been an episode all along, I guess.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cuz I had a lot of experience that I wanted to like, share. And some of it was like six minutes long. And I'm like, no one's watching that. No one's gonna watch this. And then I got it down to like three minutes. And it's pretty still pretty
long. Yeah. It's really hard to get the stuff we talked about down in like, one minute. Yeah, but
then sometimes I'll do a video and it's like the first recording. I'm like, That's it. That's perfect. I'm letting it out.
That's the best. Those are the best. Yeah, whenever you just like let it out from the heart.
I did have a lot to say about this, though. So you want to get started? Yeah, it's good to ask you questions like you're the boss. I'm not
the boss of the show. That's so more this relationship is a matter.
That's true. All right. So what is a trigger? A trigger is something that prompts a strong emotional reaction, often related to a past traumatic experience. So think of like thunder, it might be a trigger for someone who has experienced a traumatic event involving their home catching on fire due to lightning.
That sounds awfully familiar.
Yes, it does. Because we had in June, yes. Back in June, our neighbor's house caught on fire after a storm. So now when it storms we do we get pretty triggered, our kids get triggered, triggered, and they get a little scared. But this triggers like, usually, when we talk about triggers, or thinking about the addict or alcoholics trigger,
right, yeah. When in the context of triggers, and we're talking about addiction in general. That's like the number one question I get asked when I go to treatment centers, like, what are your triggers? And how you cope with those, but no one's really talking about triggers from the other side of this?
No. So I didn't know what a trigger was until I went to the family education program at your treatment center, which was only like two days long. Yeah, right. So only got two days. Yes, they did. But it was about your triggers, and how I needed to prepare for you to come home with your trigger. And I was like, what, okay, that's kind of weird, but whatever. So I didn't know that I was going to have triggers until down the line.
Can I say something quickly about family education, treatment centers and things like that? Are you about to go off? Just No, not really, I'm
gonna do my best not to. But anyway, so treatment centers, the the treatment industry in general, I think that this is really important for spouses family members to understand is that the treatment industry is geared toward getting your loved one sober, the end, they have very little concern about the health of the family or the spouse afterward, they can say that they care but oftentimes what you will find even if like, there's some treatment centers that give you access to your,
your loved ones, counselor, and families feel really secure about that. In the beginning, they're like, wow, like this is, this is great. And some treatment centers do a pretty good job about staying in touch, letting you know what's going on, allowing you to express concerns that they will in turn, bring up to your loved one who's in treatment and work through are some things. But inevitably what happens is that something will occur, the spouse will
reach out. And then you get crickets or something that you really didn't want to hear come back. And we get questions about that all the time. Like, they said this and it seems really like they're not thinking about me. And I'm like, No, you're right. They're not. But they're paid by insurance companies like 10s of 1000s of dollars to get someone sober. That is their focus is to get someone sober
like they are. While they can be advocates for spouses, they're very poor ones at best, I would say, and they're not really there for you.
They're trying to help us help you. In a way I often say not enable you like how do we not enable you? How do we stop being codependent? How do we do things like that, but it's really it's mostly about the addict. Yeah,
a lot of the stuff that I hear about comes from counselors like addiction counselors, lctcs, even some of the the licensed therapists in these places makes me want to throw a chair. Because it's a, it's a, because I know what it's doing from the other sides, like they are concerned with getting the addict sober. So they're going to create an environment and encourage you to get on the same page about creating an environment that makes it as easy as possible for them,
because that is their job. Part of it because I come from kind of like the roof of school of accountability is I don't believe in that I don't Well, it's not that I don't believe in helping people get sober. Like, I think you can support someone in sobriety. There are limits to that gray area. And sometimes I feel like they, they go way too far. And they're really not considering the other person's
needs. And it becomes like, like, as a professional, how could you provide that advice, knowing what it's going to do to them? Like you are creating an environment where they now feel responsible for their loved ones sobriety or you have made them like the guardian of it, where you've told them like you need to breathalyze this person you need to drug test this person, you need to ask them questions you need, like do know, you
know where they're located. Now,
you've created a role in the relationship, this really strange dynamic where the spouse is like the caretaker, and which further instills exactly the stuff we talked about trying to get away from here. Yeah, yeah. So it's I don't know, like, we're not enemies by any means. But some of the stuff that comes out of there is detrimental to spousal recovery.
Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that. Yeah. All right. So we're gonna touch on what's going to trigger you the partner. What triggers a partner, whenever their partner, their spouse or partner is actually sober and working on a recovery. So the one thing that I hear the most is the opening of cans. That's a big one, people hear a can opening it, they equate it to beer, glasses hitting the counter, like when you put a class clown on my grant account. Yeah, that's, I remember that.
And that's, oh, yeah, I threw away all of our shot glasses when we moved to this house, because I was like, I don't like the sound on counters. And I thought, you know, we don't really need those. So I'm going to trash them. It's true. We used to get them at vacation spots, too. So I think that we had some that was like that. Yeah, yeah. mementos.
I can replace. I'm good with that. We do coffee cups now. Yeah.
The sound of a freezer door opening the sound of pill bottles. Whenever your partner runs errands and they take too long. ATM withdrawal alerts, people going to work or dinner like work dinners and events. Certain ringtones you get triggered by certain ringtones
get triggered by the phone in general, I think rings too much over it.
Walking into the garage, maybe your partner's sleeping in all of these are they we equate these to a time when it was very uncomfortable?
Yeah, these are reminders of behaviors that when these occurred, typically you knew what was going on? And it wasn't good.
Yeah, there was usually lies, there were Trump, there was trauma, there was yelling, there was so much going on in that time. And some people may think that we're crazy when we think of like, Oh, I'm triggered by can opening. Like, I haven't personally been triggered by account opening. I mean, it did like it would bring back memories, but it wasn't a trigger. But there are a lot of people who deal with that. And I completely understand that the outsiders will look at that
thinking. What's your problem? Are the big Oh, you're obsessive? A little bit? Yeah. Yeah. But it was a it was about a time when we were hurt. So you know, it's like when you smell a certain scent, and it takes you back in time. Oh, yeah,
man, I smelled curve cologne. Remember that? And it took me it took me back to sixth grade. Yeah, immediately. I could like see myself in the hallway. It was everywhere when we were little kids.
Yeah. And like when I smell crayons, it takes me back to this time when I was sitting in front of my door at my house and when it was raining, I would have this big old bucket of crayons and I would color so it just hit me it was a nice time you know and the smell of fire burning will make you think of fall and smores sure and being outside by the campfire and then the smell of pine makes you think of Christmas like these are all you know nice memories
but triggers. Yeah, they're good triggers but the other things will take us back to a really dark time. So you want me to talk about my triggers. Please do tell some stories. Okay, well, pill bottles this Sounds of pill bottles can't really get away from the sounds of pill bottles. But, Matt,
I mean, I've got a goal not to take any pills at all, but some stuff you have to take, right?
Well, you took them a lot even in, you know, early recovery. So Matt had a back injury when he was around 17 or 18 years old. Yeah. And he ended up on hydrocodone
pain, boxy, hydrocodone, Valium, like all kinds of
stuff. Yes. And then like all of his drugs, choices, its main drugs choices were like, all these different pills. So pill bottles were around the house all the time. And when he was in recovery, he would take a lot of Tylenol or ibuprofen, or he would have pills and he wears a man purse. So if you know Matt, he has a man purse. Yeah. And he carries it around. And if I would pick it up, I would hear pills. And all my little leave bottles. Having a leaf bottle in
there. Yeah, yeah. So I would pick it up and it would take me to a time of,
hey, by the way, it's a sling bag. Okay, just, it's a Patagonia Sling Bag. Like, it's great. I got the image of like me walk around like some designer handbag. It's not it's like a
nice little outdoor like you do get them. But you get them for different seasons. Like he gets different colors for Fuji about it. And it's the cutest thing ever. Typically the woman
Okay. I'll take it. Okay. Okay, well, with that it's fine. Whatever.
Anyway, and you say he would take he would, I could heal it here, pill bottles, it would take me back to a time whenever, you know, our relationship was very toxic. So that was a trigger. Running errands.
Yeah, that was a big one. Man.
This one was, this one really hit me this one would really be like, oh, ooh, something's going on. When Matt was an active addiction, and obviously, we've talked about him being a closet addict. So I didn't really know that he was on drugs. He lied a lot. But every weekend, or even in the evening times, he was saying I gotta go run some errands. I gotta go to the store. Matt's running errands to the store wasn't a 30 minute trip to go
grab milk. Two hours meant Oh, God, I was gonna say, two hours, like, minimum half a day, typically. And I knew that whenever he said he had to go run errands, it was going to take forever for him to come back. And he would he lied to me like you were constantly lying to me. We would our whole entire day would be ruined, you would come home being you know, you'd be effed up the rest of the day. Like that's what I equated long errands with.
Yeah, like I would get home and you would have been ready for hours, we're late to what we were going to the days basically ruin now. And that's how that
I felt like I was on the back burner at that time. Right? Yeah. Because you were you did not give a rat's ass about my feelings. At that point. You were like, okay, she'll be fine with it, I'll be able to lie my way out of this like I usually do, she'll get over it, everything will be fine. So in recovery, whenever he would run errands, and he would be gone for a long time, it would trigger me and I don't have or I do have the location app on my phone. But I don't track Matt. I
use it for my kids. I didn't have it back in the day either. Because for my mental health, I don't want to track my husband. I'm just throwing that out there. I don't want to do it. Even if it was going to build up back trust. It was too much for me. So I had to build back trust in another way. But if he was gone for long periods of time, it would make me feel like I was on the backburner or he was going to go he was at a drug dealers house or maybe he was going somewhere he wasn't
supposed to be. So it would scare me.
Yeah, just doing something selfish. Basic, right. Yeah. Right.
And then ATM alerts. Whenever I had ATM alerts on my phone,
yeah, these were set up over. It took a little while for us to get there. But you would log into the account like okay, we're broke. Why? What happened here and she would see all these ATM withdrawals. And so I think one of your earlier financial boundaries, but you set up these alerts and we had to discuss what they were for what it was about. And it made me more accountable. To show you what I was doing with the money. And this is back when I was still
using Yes. And it was a pain in the butt for me because I was just trying to get high. But it was yeah, it made it rather difficult, but they would pop up. And then yeah, it just brought that doom of, oh my God, here goes the money again.
Right? Because we were in the process of saving for our house. We wanted to move out and get our own place. We were newlyweds with a new baby. I was working full time. And our we were like in negative we didn't have money. We weren't any strangers to overdraft fees, right. And we've talked about this before on episodes where we did not like we had to ask for extensions on our rent. And it was when I started to detach from you because I was that was
like the last straw for me. I was like financially like I'm working my ass off dude and you're not going to be spending all of our money. That's not okay. So in early recovery, I still had the ATM alerts on my phone. Yeah. And anytime they would pop up, I would be very triggered. I was like, Holy crap, like, are we going back down this road? It would take me back to a very, you know,
dark time you still have those alerts on your phone to this day, don't you? I do.
And I get it now too. Well, I turned on Wi Fi turned them off. But I think that we don't do it anymore. So I don't see it.
Man. I think in the last 10 years, I've probably gotten cash out 10 times or less.
Yeah, like in before it was multiple times a day sometimes. Yep. And it was hundreds of dollars. It was not like it wasn't like 2020 bucks. It was excessive. Oh my gosh.
Yeah. My habit near the end was I mean, there were some days it was $300 a day to get by and then on average, they'll probably 120 bucks.
Yeah, yeah. So like, okay, those were my main triggers. And whenever we feel triggered, we may want to react. We go into this like survival mode. Our hearts start pounding, we get sweaty, our brain doesn't stay present. We may want to lash out yell blame, tell our partner how they triggered us. It releases a hormone a stress hormone, cortisol and adrenaline, which over time can cause long term stress, heart problems weakened, weakened
immune system. Like we were just talking about how you know some of the wheelies. And some of even myself whenever I met was an act of addiction like our health suffered
a lot. Oh, man cortisol like, oh my god, it cortisol release is terrible for your health. Yeah, so bad for your health like it. It affects like your ability to lose weight. It affects like the types of foods that you'll eat. Like it basically it puts you into like, like, you know, around the holidays, everyone gets stressed. And like everyone puts on about 15 pounds. Like that's what it's like all the time all the time when you've got cortisol flowing through your system. Always. Yeah, it's bad
man. So bad for you. Yeah.
So the triggers that we have may be caused by our partners. Yeah, they are typically Yes. But it's our responsibility to manage them. So like I said, if you were traumatized by a storm, you cannot completely avoid storms.
Yeah, you can't write Mother Nature letter like, could you like, really bothers me, I can really appreciate you, could you please
stop, you know, but when we learn to manage them without making it, someone else's responsibility, we can level it up, like in our recovery, you know, people are going to open cans, people are going to run errands, people are going to open freezer doors people are going to sleep in, you know, that's just what's going to happen. And I can show you and teach you how I deal dealt with my deal. I dealt with my
triggers. And I hope that y'all can, you know, utilize it and it will be beneficial for you. Yeah. And
caveat and derailing us for just a moment here. We mentioned that this is this information is going to be the most helpful for anyone who's got a partner in early sobriety, or even maybe in sobriety, long term sobriety and just haven't really talked about the trigger stuff. You haven't talked about any of this stuff, maybe like the trigger is essentially an open wound. It's an open wound that hasn't healed yet. So think about having an open wound, like I've got one on my hand right
now. Anytime that I rub it up against anything, I feel it, like, that's what it triggers like, it's an emotional wound, it's still open, it has not healed yet. We can help them heal. But your environment has a great deal to do with how it heals. If you're if you're wanting the solution of, hey, my partner still is still on drugs today. And they still drink today, and things are still a
mess today. And you want the freedom of healing your triggers, it's it's going to be nearly impossible, if not just impossible to do that. Because you're still in an environment where you're being cut every day, this stuff is still happening. It's ongoing. And that's what's so freaking hard. And like, let's just talk about the elephant in the room here for a moment, let's just kind of pull back the curtain. This is tough to say but and I'll just
relate to my own experiences. I don't ever want to speak like to people and give direct advice. But this is something that I've done. I've been in some really, really, really tough situations in my life, some really toxic situations. And I have used just about every psychological trick that I know spiritual trick as well, to learn how to find peace in a storm, which is ultimately what I've challenged myself to do. And sobriety is kind of a sobriety is like, inside of my
head is it's crazy. It's like a lightning storm all the time. Like it's nuts in here, I promise you it is if you ever feel crazy, just remember then probably 10 times crazier. So feel good about that, that you're not as bad as me. But I've had to learn how to just cope with day to day life. And I took those same principles and I started to apply them to situations when I was sober. Of how Okay, so I'm in a really tough situation right now how can I find serenity in it right?
So I practice all the things we know how to do. Acceptance is probably the highest form of spirituality for me. And that essentially states that when I'm disturbed by some person, place, thing or situation. What I'm really saying is that I don't accept reality for what it truly is. And if I'm going To find happiness, anytime I have to accept my reality for what it really is. Now, I'm not talking about someone using drugs and physically and emotionally abusing me, I'm not talking
about that kind of stuff. And it was tough for me to even find days where I could get by. And just what I'm talking about, which is some more relationship related stuff. It's incredibly difficult, if not impossible, because what's going to happen is that you can spend all day talking yourself off the cliff, getting to a place of acceptance, you can you can pray, you can use mindfulness techniques, you can use grounding techniques, you can get yourself in a good place.
And then what's going to happen the next day is that the trigger is going to happen again, because that person is still using, they're still doing all this stuff. And so what you'll find is, at some point, what I found was backup, not you, what I found was that I ultimately had to make the decision to get the hell out of that situation, or it was never going to stop, because I couldn't change other people. But I did have a choice
in what I exposed myself to. I had a choice every single day and what I was going to allow in my life and what I was going to allow to affect my piece. And I had a choice in some of that stuff. And like I hate to tell people this, but it's it's a fact is that this relationship if it doesn't work out, and won't be because you didn't try. Yeah, it's not all up to you. It's not, it's not all up to the listener who wants someone to get sober, the larger burden is
on them to get sober. The fact matters, and most people don't do it, they just don't get sober. They either don't want to see that they have a problem, or they see they have a problem. But they're convinced nothing will work for them. And maybe they'll try to control it in a million different ways. But it's a process of trial and error that could take decades before they finally see. Okay, I think I really do need to stop and get
serious about this. But in the meantime, you're going to be exposed to this stuff day in day out every single day. So you might have a couple good days, but it's coming back. If you're still in that environment. Like it's really hard, if not impossible to heal in the same environment that got you sick.
So I just want before we go any further for people that are like, Okay, what's the answer to be happy while he's still drinking and still emotionally abusive, and he's using drugs and the ATM, the money's gone, like, That situation is not going to get a whole hell of a lot better while you're inside of it. Now, if you listen to our first episode on triggers, I think that we covered some of
this stuff. And we've even covered some mindfulness techniques and some of our early episodes about spirituality and some other things that that could be helpful to you like I have found, I have found gratitude to be an extremely effective way to get me out of some funks when people are not not acting right, when they're not treating me right. And I can I can find relative peace in a
really bad situation. But overall, that situation is not never going to change as long as I'm in it, because it's not up to me. It's the other people around me that are treating me this way. As long as I allow them to even have access to me. I'm going to keep getting the same thing, right? Like it's unlikely that some magical moments going to occur where they just go, Oh, hey, I've been treating you poorly. We should I should stop doing that. Yeah. Some people do it like I did
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You Yeah, it's like if you hear the sound of a cane opening and you're in it, the person who's opening the can is probably opening a beer who is going to you know, have a drink and they're won't be some of the yelling and you know all the abusive stuff that goes along with that. But if you're out of it and you hear the sound of a Ken opening, it's going to probably be a sparkling water so you want to look at the reality of that situation it doesn't the abuse is not going to go along
with that. Yeah, like
like all the like, your feelings around this are valid. Like even today with Paige gets upset about like an ATM withdrawal alert. Man, I completely get why. Yeah, that's a valid feeling. Because for so long this happened. But now it's the ball is more in your court than it is in mine. Yeah. And it's more your responsibility to learn how to manage your piece. Yep. Than it is my job to change that.
Exactly. You know, I
can certainly help. But let's say we're still in it. Right? The responsibility is more on me. And you have little to no control. Yeah, you've got to play mind games with yourself. You've got to get, you've got to work really, really, really hard to find peace in the storm. Yep. It's It's damn near impossible. And what I'm saying is that, for me, anyway, it's more trouble than it was worth.
Right. Right. Okay, so I want to talk about what to do whenever you do feel like you have that trigger. Come on. So I'm going to say what I did in my experience, and what has helped me throughout the years. Yeah. So once you feel that trigger, take a deep breath, it's going to regulate your nervous system. It'll help reduce the levels of the stress hormones that we talked about
earlier. And your body and when you're stressed or you're anxious, your body releases these hormones, and the deep breathing can help counter counteract this response.
Yeah, man deep breathing like the oh my gosh, flow of oxygen to your brain like like, do I do these big four second in four second, hold four seconds out. And I do that, at minimum six times. But as many times as I need to start to feel regulated?
Yes. It starts to feel peaceful. It brings you to the present moment. Yeah. So because what triggers do, it takes you to a time another time, right? It takes your body to another time. So what do you breathe, you focus on that breath, it's going to bring you more back to the present. And that's what's so important. And it seems so simple, but it's like, it's it's incredible, the breathing techniques really worked for me.
Now, the next part will be if you feel comfortable bringing it up to your partner, like we said, If this is your sober partner, approach the subject from a non judgmental, calm manner. Remember, this is about how you're feeling not about how your partner in what they did to cause the the trigger. This is where healthy communication
comes into play. Oh, yeah. So when I know that a lot of people, because I know how I felt when I was triggered, I would want to respond in a way like in a blame full way to say, look, would you you know, look at your dealings, like would you did you I just mean, how dare you make me feel this way. But I didn't do that. Matt. And I had a discussion about this. Recently, I asked you I was like, Did I ever come at you? Because I felt like I didn't I know that I might have wanted to
come at you. But I don't think I did.
No. Okay. No, you didn't like come in like a spider monkey. Like no, like, not with my trigger also, like screaming anything like that, right?
Because I knew that you were in a place of trying to build back trust. So I have to give that to you. So whenever I would have it, I would take that moment. Take the breath, I'd call Matt and I'd say something along the lines of like, Hey, I saw you took money out of the account, you know, what's this for? And he would tell me specifically what it says. And I would be like, Okay, this is a trigger for me. And I just wanted to let you know how I feel. And he would, we would
like talk it out. And he would just let me know, it's okay. Sometimes we would laugh about it too. You know, we would kind of go back and be like, Oh, that's funny. You're triggered about this. But I mean, I'm here for you. I understand it, you'd give me space? Or I would laugh about it. You know? Yeah, I
don't think I ever made funny. No,
no, no, no, no, but I would laugh about it. Like, oh my gosh, this is silly. But then I realized that we would talk it out. And it's just how we would communicate. He would always give me space because he knew that it was earned distrust. Yes. Like, did you stop getting money out of the ATM? No, not totally. No. Did you stop running errands?
No. So gotta do that.
Did you stop taking Tylenol? Because it was triggering? No, I'm still gonna do that some time. Right. So he notifies me before he gets money out. Like he'll discuss the length of the errands. Now if he's going somewhere, and I don't fault like I said, I don't follow him on an app or anything like that. But we have open communication and we don't judge each other. So what would you
say to the addict partner? How would you tell them to react to somebody who to their partner who brings up a trigger?
This comes up all the time with people that I'm working with in early sobriety. I heard it first. I'm like, again, like I'm not some kind of like genius to figure this out on my own. I heard it from somebody when I was in treatment. He was talking about triggers and things that happened. And he he coined this, this, this phrase earned distrust and that there's earned distrust and that the reason that you don't have any trust between you and your partner is because you earned it you earned
that distrust. And now the balls in your court learn how to manage yourself out of that. And so I remember early on maybe even day one I came out and I'd let you know that like you can Feel however you need to feel about my recovery, and the triggers that will pop up and things that will happen and I always held space for you to feel however you needed to feel.
Even if you jumped on me like I remember there was, I think maybe one of the earlier ATM withdrawals, like you had the alert and you let me know like, I think he even said like, that's a major trigger for me, like I saw this. And as I'm hearing it, and you weren't, you weren't like being aggressive, but I could hear your tone in your voice like you were
definitely hurt. And you were coming at me from a place of stress and anxiety and I'm hearing it and like my you know, just don't fight back like don't like I know you'll you'll want to defend yourself but do your best just to sit there and just let them listen just listen, let
them talk and hear them out. And I would always just say I completely understand why you would feel that way I totally get it because for X amount of years I was doing this and then lying you about it but this time I'm buying a pair of Yeezys or whatever I'd be doing buying a pair of Jordans or sneakers or something like that you know next addiction Yeah, so I would be doing something like that and then I would say so in order to make this easier I will let you know long before I make this
purchase and then I'll let you know before I get the money out so that you're not just you know, like I don't know writing an episode hanging out around the house or running your own errands and all sudden you get this alert that takes you back to 2010 it's like oh my god here we go again. This way at least you'll know and I will also come home with shoes to show you like
where the money really are. And you'll say those are ugly Why'd you buy those but anyway it's communication around it and just holding space for people's emotions I think is the most important thing like even Aaron's there have been like there was one not long ago where I had to get Nicorette gum. So that's like something that you every so often like she's so yeah, it's like my thing like I have two biases. One of them is like Nicorette gum and the other
one is black coffee. Yeah. And I had to go get Nicorette gum, we had a storm, and knocked the power out the drugstore. So I'm like, Oh, I gotta go with another one. And I, I used to do this crap all the time when I was using like, oh, well, they didn't have it. So I had to go to a different one. I had to go to like three places to find it. And I was calling you each time and I was laughing. I'm like, I know how this sounds like I know exactly. I use like, I totally get it. If you're upset about
this. If you got your doubts, yeah, I completely understand where you're at. And then once I give you once I've validated I let you know that it's okay to feel the way you feel. Then you usually laugh about it. You're like, Yeah, this is this is tough, not gonna lie. So it's easier for me to process a little weird for me. And then we're like, we kind of joke about it, then. Yeah. And then it's like, okay, well, I'll be home in you know, 1015 minutes, right? Stay in touch with you.
And communication helps a ton around this stuff. But you've got to understand that if this trust exists, you don't get to be defensive over it. You get to sit there and just listen to them. Let them process it. And I have this come up with people that I work with too. They'll call me and it's like, Hey, man, I've been sober for nine months, I've been working really hard. I've been doing everything I'm
supposed to be doing. And my wife jumped on me today for there was a guy who was like wanting to make a purchase of some kind. I forgot what it was, but didn't really discuss it with her. And he didn't make the purchase. But he was like, basically on the fence about he had already done all the research. He just needed her to
say okay, yeah. And it was a huge trigger for her because in her in her mind, it was like this is what you did when we were in you were using it was like the selfishness you never involved in me even even your thoughts leading up to it. You would just come to me and say I'm doing this thing. And it was triggering. He's like, Well, I think at this point, I've urns back then I was like, oh, timeout, hell, no, no, like, they could be there for years.
It might always be there. Yeah, but you have to understand why it is. And so your part in all of this is just to let them know that you understand why that exists. And then if you really want to be a gentleman about it go the extra mile and how about have a have a you know, have a healthy communication or have healthy communication around? How can I make that easier for them? How can I involve them more in my thoughts and in sort of eliminated in the first place so you can nip it in the bud
before it ever gets there? Yeah, and I think that that's something that we've done, like now that's what it looks like. Yeah, like the ATM withdrawals like even like, like sleeping in like I don't do it a whole heck of a lot. But I know that was a big one for us that sleep till noon or one o'clock, three o'clock somedays. And that's such a waste of time, but right now it's like you let me do it.
I think early on you probably felt really weird about it and, and but now it's like I think you're like okay, you need to sleep like it's been really hard.
Even think much about it anymore. Yeah, but it's to a point where the trust is built
I think that you work really hard at something is like you expect to see something come back from that and in recovery, you expect your partner your spouse to be okay with things way before they will be and that works both ways. We come out of treatment and our partners and spouses think we're gonna go back to being a family again, like right like we're totally cool. No, you're gonna get a zombie who sits around doesn't know how to navigate anything
doesn't talk to you? Because they don't know how yet yeah, it's like a brand new person like right, you're not going to get back the same person. They'll let have to. But here's my question why why would you want that person back? Right? That's the person that screwed the whole deal up in the first place. Yeah. You know, like, there's this. There's this artists. It's on Instagram at BLKSMT H at, like a blacksmith. Oh yeah, he does his balloon.
Art. I love it. And there's this one that I always thought was greatness. It says, What's wrong babe? You're not acting like the romanticized version of you, I thought you were. And like that happens, like, underlying a lot of the stuff like that happens. It's like we expect people to act a certain way, because that's how they are in our head. Yeah, created like their own personality and like, who they can be based on their potential. And a couple of situations or actions where they were really
awesome. It's like, oh, that's my boo. Yeah, that's the person I want. Yeah, that's the dude I want like, no, like, it starts over in recovery. It does. You get a new person,
literally, you're totally different. Like, I mean, there's some things like that there's some quirky things that you have from when I first met you, but still there, you're Yeah, but you're still pretty much like a totally different person. Yeah. And you got sober.
And the danger in that is that sometimes this person that comes out and even, like, even after, like a year or so you'd be like, Look at each other and say, we don't really get along that, well. We're just not really freaking compatible. I want to make that I want to be honest about that make that clear that I've seen that happen many times as well, where someone comes out of treatment, it's just like, Man, I'm totally different person, like the person that you knew wasn't
really me at all. Like, if I'm being real and authentic about it. This is who I really am. And you'll, as a partner be like, that's not what I signed up for. I kind of liked some of the stuff before but if this is what we're talking about, now, maybe I'm not interested either, right? Like it's a scary time. There's no guarantees in this game. Yeah. Like, I hate that about us, though. Because I think people will see us and the first thing they're attracted to is like, Oh, we could be just
like them. And you're right. You could, but it's, it's possible. But there are also several other possibilities. Yeah, that it's it's like, I don't know, maybe like a roulette wheel, like, Oh, yes. Or you could get something totally different, right? Or it could be, what I think most people do is that they, they become so empowered, that they're like, You know what, I can be truly happy living authentic life on my own with or without this person. But I think I want to do it without them.
Because it's easier. I don't have to deal with the triggers the back and forth and like, I love them. But if I'm going to have to leave them in the reality that they've chosen for themselves. And I love you, but I can't do this anymore. And they walk their own path. Like that's another possibility. Yeah, but
these triggers are still gonna come up in other relationships. Probably too. Yeah, you'll find someone who had nothing to do with it. And then you're gonna hear Ken and think, oh, yeah, that's why we have to learn to cope with them. Yes, no, it's not typically, it's not the other person's responsibility. Yes, they may have caused it. But we're the ones that are responsible for coping, which kind
of sucks. It's like someone like through baggage on your front porch. It's like, Hey, this is your problem. It
totally sucks. It totally sucks. But so in our part, it's going to be coming at it in a calm manner. And in an open communication, where you just talk about how it made you feel and not how the other person was really triggering you. It's just like, This is how I feel when this happens. And that's just, that's just healthy communication in a marriage, it
just is I agree. So if you feel like you cannot really talk with this person, or maybe your triggers are even, they won't go away after you've discussed it. Here are some other techniques that you can use to kind of kind of manage the trigger. So like we talked about earlier, the grounding techniques, self care and make sure you're taking care of yourself because it does create resilience, and it reduces the stress over time. So okay, like exercising and
eating, right? It's, it's important because it is going to help your levels like your stress levels,
it'll help your stress levels and it also helps you become proud of the person that you see in the mirror. Yeah, like not not just physically not just physically, the physical benefits. Like, it's so small, like that part is like That's neat. And all like when I started to get fit, I wasn't doing it because I wanted to look like a like a men's health cover guy. Like, I look like that now, but that's just been a byproduct of just trying to get my mind. Right, right. Like I go
to the gym now. And it's, it's truly it's self care. It's like, Man, I'm stressed. I feel like my self esteem is crap. Like, I'm not feeling myself at all. Like I just I've got to lift some heavy crap, set it back down. Yeah,
if you break a sweat, if you have that trigger, like go do something like turn up some loud music and get your heart rate going and get that anger out on something and you will feel a little bit better when you're done you absolutely well, yeah. Meditation, like we talked about earlier to meditation helped me throughout a lot of triggers. When the first year of my recovery just gets you practicing and being in the present moment. cognitive
distortions. We've talked about this a little bit, but if you change your thought patterns, we actually have a website for a worksheet that will help you with those specific trigger if you want to write it down. We have how you can work through it and process it on your own to kind of shift your mind to where it'll be a little bit more positive and help you get through it. So if you want to check out twf.com, I think it's called Change your patterns or something like that your thought
patterns, okay? And then journal to identify your triggers. Because a lot of the times like, I, there were some triggers that I have that had that I didn't identify until I went into therapy. So if you can just identify them, it's easier to manage them. So write them down, talk with a support group, people who are going through the same thing. So you don't feel so crazy. Like in our community, people will go in there and talk
about their triggers. And they're like, I know, I sound crazy, but this is what's happening. And we're all like, Oh, you're not crazy. This is very common. It is part of the the situation and experience, we're all going through it. So we totally understand. If your triggers are completely unmanageable, and you feel like you need extra help, like panic attacks and stuff, and your stress is getting in the way of your daily life. Get with a therapist that specializes in trauma.
Yeah, that's man, the power of therapy is just, it's it doesn't it's not a quick fix. And I think that that might frustrate people at times, it takes time, it takes time, and you will take one step forward to back but over time, it's not a linear path, right? It's, it's up and down, up and down, up and down. But if you stick with it, one to two years, consistently going in wanting to get better as you're going, you'll have breakthroughs along the way.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like it takes two years before you feel better, you'll feel better, but to really, really heal and process through some things. Yeah, you got to invest some time in it. But it's so worth it. It's so worth it. You know, like, we'll sign up for loans on crap that we don't need, like, we'll finance a TV. But we won't spend the money on therapy or mental health or any of that kind of stuff. It's just kind of wild, but it should be
backwards backwards. Right? We should really focus on that stuff first. Yeah. Like I know, it's a commitment, because it's not tangible. Yeah, it's not but it hot man is so worth
is like amazing, human only one life to live in.
Yeah. It's huge. And any advice that I would give to, I guess the the addict out there in your life, or the the person who's in recovery, and they aren't so kind about your triggers, stop being an ass. That's my word, you can tell him I said that. I don't care. I can take the punches, arguments, whatever. But there's earned
distrust. And these things exist because of a situation that I put us in, I put us here, I was the one who I was the one that derail this, the addiction derail this, and I have to deal with and I have to clean up a lot of that stuff, which means that I have to become a participant in your mental health journey. And any way that I can be helpful, I want to be helpful, I never want you to feel like you're not allowed to feel certain way. I never want you to feel like you're alone in
this deal. And I want partners to start supporting, I really do. And I cannot wait until the day that we get workshops where we've got, you know, 20 to 30 couples together. And we can have these kinds of conversations. And we can have these live and we can do some, some some work where it's like, okay, I want you to validate that feeling and tell me what that felt like. And how's that feel? And what I'm having a thought, what, give me a thought.
Are you ready for this?
Sure. I don't know if I am actually you. Look, you're getting me right now. Okay, so and that's all we have on this episode.
All right. So you've always allowed me to have space for my triggers and stuff, right? Like, it's never really been a problem. But oh, okay, validating my feelings on like, stuff that don't necessarily have to do with you. I guess, that took a lot longer. It did. Think about that, like you were, I guess whenever you were validating me with my trigger, or with the triggers and stuff. It's like, it's totally
validating. You could tell you're like, oh, I can I can accept this I can understand but actually validating my feelings on anything else that you thought was like stupid things that I wasn't responsible for you weren't responsible for and you'd be like, Oh, you're sensitive. That's stupid that
I would I would basically write you, you know, like a, like a peer review. Paper. It's like, oh, here's here's how you here's why you
This is how here's my fix it. Yeah. Think about I just I don't know, I don't know why connected that. But it
Yeah, that's interesting. Let's explore that for just a moment, such as the end of the episode. Most people have already checked out. But it's interesting. So I guess if you're right, you're absolutely right. This this did occur. And my first, my first thought about the response would be something along the lines of so when I'm responsible for it. It was easier for me to see a solution to getting past that it was also easier to see for me why it
existed in the first place. And when it didn't concern me directly. I would offer solutions I would offer fixes and I would show you how to apply that same logic to get out of that thought. And that was my biggest pro Um, for so very long anyway, is that it's like you didn't need a coach, you needed a husband? Yeah. It's like, dude, I'm not one of your clients or one of these people that you work with, like, I'm your, I'm your wife like I have, I just need to know that I'm not
crazy. I need to know that I can have these feelings,
right? Where, even if you didn't agree with them, I mean,
this is this is one of my just in general, one of my flaws is that I'm a fixer. And anytime someone brings me a problem I'm my brain automatically goes to like, even before you're finished talking, I'm constructing a solution for you. I'm already going through like, okay, yeah, yeah. Active
listening. No, I
did not. I'm terrible activists. We've talked about that. I'm already creating solutions to get you out of that. Because I mean, I don't want you to feel this way. Let me come up with a solution that will get you past that, which is totally wrong. And is, the worst thing you can do for someone is just show them the way out, the best thing you can do is love them, support the validate them, and then let them figure out how to give them advice. If they ask for it. Like, if you don't
figure it out yourself. You never really learned it anyway. You know, like, if you wanted advice, you would ask me for advice. And I think that I always assumed anytime you brought me into a problem, it comes from like work stuff. I think it's like, yeah, if you've been a boss or manager anywhere, like that's what people do they come to you and they say here, here's a problem. I need a solution here. Yeah. And I guess I started to apply that in my own relationship, which is
terrible. Don't do that. Don't do that is does not make for happy marriage at all. Yeah, I think that gets kind of where my thought process was. But it's much easier now that just Just shut up. Listen, shut my mind off and listen to exactly what you're saying and just validate you along the way.
I just had to connect the two because it was kind of interesting. How because I feel like the opposite would be for me. Like if you were triggered by something that I would that I did. I think it would kind of
pissed me off. You would get defensive about it. Right? I would get I would get defensive. But like when
you come to me with problems that don't direct, very, like, I'm just I mean, I sometimes I'll throw in my two cents, but I'm not trying to fix it for you. It's more of my opinion. It's like like, well, this is what I would do you know, but I'm not judging you for what you're going through or telling you how to fix it. I'm
just there for any any thing that is like, hey, I need
to do that. This is how I would I think I
would start gaslighting me and telling me no Oh.
Yeah, I wonder what that's about?
I don't know, man. We're crazy. I
don't know. We just process this though. Maybe like, I'll do better. If you ever come up with something that's true. Like yelling was always a trigger for you. Yeah. I mean, like, I know why it was a trigger. But it would make me mad because I'm like, That's just who I am. You know, it's kind of stupid.
Man. We're never finished projects. Are we? No matter how squared away you think anyone is? We're never finished projects. And that's, I don't know. I kind of love that. I love that. This is a game with no end. I know. Right? You just have to be good at playing the game. It's fine. Yeah,
I love it. At this point. It wasn't before. Like for a while. It wasn't fun. But
the beginning of the game is not very fun. reading the instructions, setting it up. But once you start getting it like get into Awesome. Yeah, there's no end and I never see. And the benefits aren't like, like, there's no diminishing returns on the benefits either. It just keeps getting better and better and better and better. And keeps leveling up. Like there's no end like, sky's the limit, man. Yeah, it's good stuff. All right. Well think that doesn't hear right. Yeah, you got
anything else? No, no, no, man. Just be be gentle with your triggers. Be gentle with yourself as you're processing those things. And just understand, like Paige said that if you've got someone in recovery, like I would, I would wish I could just shake them and tell them like, hey, you need to be more cognizant of this stuff. And you need to be hold space. But if they don't, there's still work that you can do to get past
these things. And, you know, Paige gave some really awesome suggestions that are really effective, and they actually work. These aren't just guesses like, oh, you could probably do that. No, no, no, this is stuff that we do. We actually practice worked in our lives. We wouldn't be sharing it. Exactly. This is this stuff's effective, truly effective. Yep. So we appreciate
you guys being here. We appreciate all the support support we've been getting like the podcast is growing, the community is growing like the word is getting out. Like we're, we're getting referred out from all different places. And it's awesome watching this, this movement grow, which is really it's it's a movement at this point. It's not just, hey, these these two people have got some good things to say. Like they're
really saying some stuff. And there could be some, like sizable change in industries that don't even know what's coming yet. But it's common, and I can't wait to like I said, I just I always look forward and I'm always hopeful, I believe in brighter tomorrow's and I believe in a brighter tomorrow for spousal and family recovery.
When it comes to addiction. I look forward to the day where we've got you know, we've got a convention we've got 1000s of people attending and like, these conversations look much different than they do today. Before people discover us, because the first time they discover us, it's generally like holy crap. I didn't know I was allowed to say this kind of stuff or feel this kind of way or any of that, right. Like I want this to be the standard
man. And then I want some other people to take what we've done here and then take that el de Yes, yeah, like just let's, let's grow this, let's blow this thing up. We can really help people, we can save people years of misery, if we really start to have these discussions and get people to help they need. Yeah. So thank you all for being here. And thank you for the support. Like, I can't tell you how much it means to us. Like, we do our best to get back to DMS emails
and things like that. But there's a lot of them and like, we tried to pick a couple of days to respond to. So we haven't responded to that. We just don't care. Like we just, it's just a lot. So we appreciate it. I can't tell you how much it means to us. Like it's, it's nuts. It's awesome. We love you all. And like we always say that we will love you until you can love yourself. We're here for you. You're not alone in any of this stuff. So if you're not in our community,
please check it out. If you click any of our social media profiles, it'll bring up a bunch of Tufo links. And one of those is the community, you can check us out there. And it's a great place to stay in touch with us. Not on a one on one basis, but it's great place to just know what's happening and in our world and with two FFO. We have community calls, which I think we've got coming up this week. We should have one nothing definite yet, but keep an eye
out. If it's announced, it'll be announced in the community. That's where you get access to it. That's where the link is in the password and all that good stuff. Awesome. Page. Thanks for carrying us through this thing.
Thanks for chiming in. Thanks for letting me boss.
Oh, sure. All right, till next time, Ironman. Bye.