But I think a lot of people look at relationships and say that just basically everything's a deal breaker. And it's not the case not everything is a deal breaker, right?
It's not let it go.
Just let some of the stuff go. Right. Some like the lot of stuff we usually talk about here. Those are deal breakers deal
breakers. Absolutely. This is important things that are like really going to affect your mental health things
that are not deal breakers is the way that you keep your car which looks like people live Welcome back, well, come back to another episode of till the wheels fall off I am Matt I'm paying scared you did startled jumped
almost every time and it's like I don't know if it's I'm, I'm sensitive. Like my ears are sensitive sometimes. But it's like, bam, right in your face.
Because the room goes from quiet to just that. Probably no segue just boom. It could also be because this is the earliest we've ever recorded. Yeah, this is weird. It's before 9am Our time.
It's kind of nice, though. I feel more like refreshed.
You'd rather record early than late.
Yes, I'm tired at night. You know me.
This is true. Usually I start losing you by late. 20 minute mark. Look over there. It's yeah, you're gone. Yeah. And
it's really hard for me to like, collect myself. I just want to go to bed like oh, and today I've only had one cup of coffee, which is not normal.
That's only because we ran out of coffee.
Yeah, I suck at that.
Do what ordering coffee.
Yeah. Keeping it like in line. I should have it in stock before we run out.
I think it's a failure on both our parts because we're both addicted to coffee. And if neither of us can maintain our habit. That's a bad thing. That's just addict fail.
Honestly, I think I only need one cup.
Technically, you don't need any. Okay.
I only my okay, I can only handle one cup. Okay, yeah.
I like to do salt water in the mornings. That actually works better than coffee.
Yeah, but the stuff you have breaks are fast. I don't like that. It does. Yeah, it has
stevia leaf in it. That's right. needs all right.
No, you don't care. It's all but it's a thing for me.
I won't even worry about it. Okay, yeah, this last week's been kind of wild. We've been just focusing really, really, what are you doing? I guess, oh, I got you're setting your dandruff on me. So she's, she's wiping me out. I was helping. We've been working hard and heavy on till the wheels fall off this last week. Yes. Got all kinds of crazy stuff. We've got a board with a to do list. It's like a mile long. And we're gonna have every bit of this stuff done. Which means more
resources for you exactly. More resources for you includes online course and retreats. We got some merch in the works. It is sweatshirt season. And we've got some we took delivery of like 20 samples we've got to go through and but anyway, it's it's getting for real. And we have you listeners to thank for that. The support we get is just
absolutely amazing. And since we are on the topic of gratitude for just a moment with Thanksgiving holiday upon us, I just want to say that I'm thankful for everyone that listens, the the DMS, the messages, we get the kind words, we see just about all of them. And it warms our heart, we do not take it lightly that we have a responsibility to our followers to people that listen to people that you know, get hope and inspiration from this. And I just want to thank everybody. That's what I'm
thankful for this season. Is you all the listeners. Yeah. Even as you're walking through some really dark moments in life sharing it with us. It's just, it means the world to us that you feel safe enough to do that.
Yes. And I hope you're becoming more empowered each time you listen. Absolutely.
Yeah, that's our overarching goal there. But anyway, we we kind of interrupted our series on communication with an episode of Around the holidays, which I hope people found helpful. As you're kind of walking into this holiday season, and we are going to pick back up where we left off a few weeks back with
communication. This series on communication has been, I guess, sort of like a like a 30,000 foot view like a transition as we go from like communicating with someone who's still actively using to that early recovery stage, which is fill of just full of potholes and all kinds of Yes, things you can trip over and then sort of what we get to in this isn't just unique to relationships in later stages of recovery. I think this is just healthy, healthy communication in general. Right.
And we've done a communication episode before. Oh, yeah, it's been quite some time ago, which is about a year I think, and we pulled like a real from it. And Tiktok got really mad.
Well, we had a lot of listeners that were triggered by it as well. I received some messages from it, who were like, Oh, you made me look at something that I didn't want to look at. And I think that the wording I used was a little triggering. So we're going to clarify some things today.
Okay. I think even though our intent was good, obviously it came off wrong and we are big on action. rather than intent, So, apologies for that. We'll try to hit the point better this time around. And
maybe in a year, we will shift this one to, or we could get roasted for this one. Our communication skills do change throughout our relationship. Yeah, they do. Absolutely.
As we as we grow and mature and learn still more. Yeah, it will always evolve. Yes,
we are not perfect. Heck, no, no, don't ever get that. No, we're not perfect. We actually have a video or a clip from our first recording. Oh, it was our first podcast, each other. We were cussing, yelling, saying really ugly things to each other. And it was like a real life fight that we put out into the world to let you know that we do struggle with communication sometimes as well.
But apologies to me, I had some apologies to make after that one, too.
But that's the thing, like we learn and we grow from it. And we I think this past year, we really learned a lot and how to communicate with each other better. Absolutely.
We have. Okay, so Paige, you're gonna, you're gonna basically run this. Sure. And I get to sort of sit back and enjoy and listen to your lovely voice and chime in. Okay,
well, it might go all over the place, but it should we have some good tips for you.
We've got an outline here. Yeah.
It's totally different than your outlines, though, because I am all over the place. Oh, really? Did you go through it? And were you did you did it?
I said, No, I didn't feel like at any point. It was all over the place. Hey,
I'm just sick. I'm really critical of myself. There's
probably some truth to that. Yeah. Okay. Well, first, I
just want to ask, like, what is communication?
Making noises, back and forth? And grunts and nonverbal cues and things like that?
Yes. It's just the process of exchanging expressing or conveying information and ideas through writing, speaking and gesturing. That sums it up. I mean, I think that we think way too hard about communication. And that's why I put the definition in there.
You think we think too hard about it or not enough? Maybe not enough? Or
maybe it's just changed so much over the years that no one can communicate healthy anymore?
I don't want to derail this so early on, but I think that technology has drastically changed the way that we communicate. Yeah, that plays a huge role in the way that communication has changed over even our even our lifetimes. We're
going to have an episode on that. We can't get into that right now.
It's episode because we were I think the last generation of kids that grew up with and without the Internet. Were for a big part of our childhoods. We didn't have technology. Yeah. And then it sort of came into into vogue. And I don't know, we were probably in our teens. Like I didn't I don't remember sending a text message until after high school. No,
yeah, that's true. We didn't have smartphones until after high school. But today
is a younger generation, even and some of our listeners communicate in a totally different fashion than we ever did. Yes. So I think there's just so many more avenues to communicate, and each one has its own set of like do's and don'ts. And it's just, it's gotten complicated, I would say,
yeah, yeah. Well, we're gonna have an episode on that. So that'd be fun for derailing us.
Okay, sorry, no, it's
this. So, um, so sometimes we forget that what it is, and we think that our partner should be able to read our minds. Do you feel that? Do you feel like I should, you should be able to read my mind sometimes? Yeah,
yeah. You know, okay, I'm just gonna put it out there. You know, how men always say, like, we can't read your minds. We're not supposed to read your minds. That's true sometimes. But I think, in general, when you when you've been in a long term relationship, you can read people pretty well. But it's really convenient to say, I can't read your mind right now. And full disclosure, I have used that when I definitely knew what you wanted. But I didn't. Don't look at me like, but I just said,
your, your body language is like this. This is why don't hit me. I'm not going to hit you.
But yeah, I think a lot of guys have used that trick before was I can't read your mind. But I totally could have assumed what you need to do that moment. But I just didn't do it because I didn't feel like it. But there have also been other times where I truly couldn't read your mind. I'm like, what do you expect from me? So it's been used as a convenient excuse. It's also
been used as a valid excuse. You just admitted that every guy right now is like, slamming the dash and they are at adults tell them that thanks for that, but it's true. It's true. I mean, okay, listen, like think about it. Your dog, your dog can't communicate verbally. Well, some can I know some dogs that will like memorable dog. Are you
serious? Like the dog would like chomp at you and that is the time I need to go outside but body language nonverbal cues time of the day like you know what your animal needs and it can't talk you can sort of you could argue I can read its mind yeah, you know, so okay, like yeah, we're smart enough to assume what people need at certain times but not all the time.
I was just I need to change this entire episodes. I
just blow the whole thing. Oh,
you did? We
can we can be real about this. Just move.
Well, thank you for admitting that you do going back the curtain on that just a moment. Uh, thank you for that accountability. So whenever we communicate typically like we don't listen to the other person's perspective, we just want to win. Right? It's wrapped up in ego. Yeah, there's a ton of ego that's wrapped up in it. Yeah. And whenever you want to have healthy communication, you have to have trust and mutual respect. It boils down to that.
I agree with that. 100% is that has to be the underlying foundation. Yeah.
So I mean, it's about listening and finding solutions based on logic and you know, reasoning with not much emotion in it, like you can have emotion in it. But whenever you are reasoning with somebody who you trust, it's so much easier to communicate. Yeah, absolutely. So when we have something to get off our chest or need to communicate our needs, it's so much healthier than it used to
be. We actually actively listen to each other intentional on what we're saying what we're listening to, we stick to one topic at a time, and we pick our battles.
Do you think we do all those things pretty well? I do. Okay, I guess I'm a perfectionist. I look at it. Like I could do better at probably all the above. But I'm a much better listener than I used to be. Sure.
Okay. That's Yes. Oh, that's probably your downfall is actively listening. Like you're just listening because you get very distracted.
I have ADHD, and it's not an excuse, but it's my blind brain goes all over the place. It's hard to keep it focused. I have to like, sometimes I'll be staring at you and like, don't look at anything else. Just listen, just listen. It's it takes a lot of intention. The
thing that I have to work on, mostly in our relationship with communication is not being defensive. I do get defensive pretty quickly. So that's something that I've been intentional about on trying to correct.
Yeah, yeah, you do get defensive pretty quick. Yeah.
You agree? Yeah. Is it weird that I'm owning something, or I was trying
to bait you into getting defensive just now and you didn't take it?
Grow? Right. Okay, so we're gonna dig deep into this in just a second. But I wanted to talk about how stress can make communication way more difficult. Yeah, because I have to say, like, within the past week, when we have been stressful, a little stress, we've had a little extra stress on our plate. Our communication kind of goes back to
what it used to be breaks down a bit. It does.
So like we revert to our old ways, with the defending the reacting, the justifying the blaming the raising of our voices, but each time we become aware of what we're doing, and we make an effort to change it the next time. Yes, so it's like this, obviously, like anything in life that has to grow, your communication skills go up and down. Yeah,
I think that the expectation should never be perfection. Yeah,
yeah. But we trust each other. So when this stuff happens, we don't take what the other saying, personally, because we know is an issue within them. And that just needs to be processed. But we also hold ourselves accountable when they are addressing something that we did that affected them. You know, you own it, apologize, and promise to do better going
forward. So let's say you need to be held accountable for when it happens again, say something along the lines of if I communicate in a way that hurts your feelings, do you mind pausing for a moment and telling me so I can be aware?
Oh, this happens in just general not even just in basic communication. But like, quick, personal story, I've got this terrible habit of like, just, I just moved too quickly through life. If we're in public, and let's say that we leave our seats from an event and go to the restroom, I will be I will walk in front of you, like 20 to 30 steps, like as fast as I can, because I were going to the restroom, I want to get that done as fast as possible and get back to where I'm going. I have
a really hard time. Not all the time. But most of the time, I would say just being present. And everything to me is like a task. And it's like how can I get this task done as efficiently as possible? But in doing that, I leave you behind. Yes. And for you. It's like, it's sort of disrespectful. It bothers me. You take it. Personally. I do. Yes. Like this last week. And you even said to me, I like and you were triggered when you said like I hate when you do this stop walking in front of me. Yeah.
It's like it's embarrassing. And my first thought is like to react and get mad at you and tell you that you shouldn't feel that way. And it's not that big of a deal. But now I can stop and pause and you're just letting me know basically that That hurts my feelings when you do that. Could you be more considerate? Yeah. And then I don't know two minutes later, I did it again. And then you reminded me again, or maybe I even caught myself. You caught yourself but that turned around
and I'm like, I'm sorry. Like when you catch me doing that to say something? Yeah. And I promise you I'm going to work at it right. It just takes time to train myself to do it. Yeah. And
I'm I apologize for going at you I it was a reaction instead of saying hey, do you mind you know, stop walking with me instead of going laying in front of me, because it does kind of hurt my feelings. Yeah, like I could have totally handled that better. But this is kind of what I was talking about with stress like I had been, there was a lot going on. It's not an excuse. And it is not an excuse for the way that I reacted. But that I know that me I don't always react like that.
But I know when I do react that way, or I come at you that way. There's usually something going on within me. Yeah. And
I realize that too.
It's a two way street. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So
yeah, so good. But there's there's a foundation of trust and understanding there. And I think that that's maybe something the preface this entire conversation with is I think healthy communication takes place when there's trust in the relationship, and there's safety in the relationship. And it becomes very hard to build that. But once you do, it becomes you're capable of having this type of communication.
Yeah. And so during your early recovery, I had a lot of patience for you to rewire your brain and how you're communicating, right? You've been pretty patient with me, because I've had to change my communication style as well. I'm a little bit behind you in my recovery. Obviously, it took me a lot longer. But I'm not as impulsive as I used to be. Even though that was an example of how I did revert to my old ways, and you still have patience for me. Which is kind. Thank you.
I mean, why wouldn't I? I mean, I look at it as like, it's both of our first time being alive on this planet. And like, no one's perfect. And we're trying and I think that everyone's suffering from the pains of growing up at varying degrees. And never forget that. Yeah, like have compassion and empathy for people as they're trying to figure things out. Even if it hurts you, in the moment understand. They're trying to figure something out.
But since you trust me, because I trust what you're going I'm I trust that we're essentially on the same page. Right? And I trust that you're, you're actually working on it, right? I guess it'd be a lot more frustrating to have this kind of conversation if someone wasn't working at it. Yes. I'm just thinking about our listeners, like, well, that'd be sounds great. And all but it's not really possible for me right now. Right?
But this could later on, this is what you can look forward to in any type of relationship you're in, you know, that's kind of the basis of this or even think
about it, maybe not with your spouse or significant other partner, just other people in your life. Yes. So you've got an adult child. So you've got friends, co workers, think about this. Yep. It's applicable for those types of relationships? For
sure. Alright, so I asked our wheelies, what some issues they're struggling with with within communication. Oh, yes. I just pulled out a few. Thank you for the feedback on that as well. Yes. Oh, my gosh, there was so much feedback. And it was everyone felt less alone. And I think that was a great little process. But some of the main issues are trust, communicating feelings without a fight
actively listening. So like if someone's watching TV or on their phone or doing you know, has HD ADHD, taking things personally when feelings are being addressed, expectations and mind reading, and then other person shutting down and getting defensive. So how do we communicate better? Let's get some solutions here.
Let's do it based on those, so she's Yes, yes,
it's kind of going to go in a little work, you'll see. So the whole trust thing we've discussed multiple times. So you both have to have mutual trust, since living events have been made. That's what we have, we respect each other. And like he just said, this is during later recovery, or with somebody who's not an act of addiction. So that's going to be if you're with someone an act of addiction, there's not going to be trust there. So it is going
to be hard to communicate. You can do your part, but your expectations have to be very low on the other person's heart. Yeah, right. So communicating feelings without a fight, so you can't control or you can't know if your partner is going to fight you or not. So this is when you go in with little explicit expectations and know how to handle yourself if a fight does start. So you go with I feel statements. Here's an
example. I feel unheard when you watch TV while I'm trying to have a conversation.
That's not how you say. It's not No, how do I say get off your damn phone. Hey, I'm
gotten more better at this. That's usually how it goes. No. Are you serious? Yeah. I'm gaslighting you right now. For
sure. That's okay. I mean, I know the point. And I know that when you say that what you mean is, I don't feel heard when you're not paying attention to me.
Yeah, but that's messed up on my part. I need to come in and with a little bit more compassion. If you
said it this way. I can tell you right now I would feel awful and I'd be like, Oh crap, I'm sorry. Get off your damn phone sounds more like an order from like a parent or something. Damn. But I'm just telling you like, yeah, it's much more effective to use I feel statements because you don't feel attacked in that moment. Yeah, just letting someone know how you feel. Okay. Yeah, usually jump My ass is what you do.
It's probably not gonna Okay, you're right. I'm not going to justify it. I'm trying to justify this with a
really smart remark you'll say something like, or you'll just hop and pop and say, I'm gonna talk to you right now.
Or I'll just say, Can you please get off your phone? I've said that before. Can you please pay attention? Can you please do this? Yeah, it might
be my tone. That's always do you have a tone? Yeah, the kids say you have a main voice.
I do have a main voice. Apparently. I think that this episode is going to be very beneficial for me.
Okay, you're learning here? That's processing your own issues. Oh, yeah. Because
I was going to justify why I react that way. And I'm not going to justify it. Because you're right. I'm just going to own it and say, I can do better with the way that I approach this.
As Can I ask and I should get for tat Here we go. No, but I'm terrible at limiting distractions. Knowing what I know about myself and how my brain works. I shouldn't have distractions around me. Like when I when I have to do intensive work. I put my phone in a different room. Yes,
yes. That's a new thing. But yeah, but also recently, we had, I was trying to have an important conversation with you and you just like change the subject pretty quickly. And it irritates me so much. My brain just went oh my god, it irritates me because I'm like, I'm I'm really trying to have a conversation with you. And you made me feel unheard and felt disregarded when you is that a word? That sounded weird disregard? Yeah. Yeah. Senator, that story of my life anyway.
And you started talking about something completely opposite. I'm like, Okay, does my do my feelings not matter right now, like, this doesn't feel good. It sucks.
And these types of conversations are possible. I just want to say, I know this sounds weird. It's like who actually talks this way? Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do. And we learned this in therapy, and marriage counseling. This is, this is what it looks like, using I feel statements just being out there with things rather than just letting it slide and ignoring it, and then hoping it's going to get better or having the expectation is going to be different. And then that creates a resentment and
then it just snowballs. Yeah, just address these things in a kind, loving manner. Own your feelings in it. Let someone know how it makes you feel when they do XYZ. And you start to get somewhere,
yes, no, but if the person still becomes defensive, and you know, ugly about it, or something, then step away and address it at another time, you might need to go to a therapist and talk to them about that counseling
is great. It really is. It really is like, it's it's wonderful.
Yeah, we I think we say that, like every episode, I
hope people recognize that it's really beneficial. I mean, seriously. Okay,
so the next one is it's kind of sensitive, because it's what we discussed in the last communication expectations
in mind reading. Yeah, so
this is going to, in our last episode about communication, we made comments about how you can ask your partner to help you around the house. And I think that we need to use the term you know, pull their weight instead of help, because it's not like you're helping me do household things around the house. It's you live here, too. It's your part to do your part in the home. Right. Like it's your responsibility of
the work and responsibility for keeping up with the home. Yeah, yeah.
So when your partner doesn't do what we think they should be doing automatically, we're expecting them to be mind reader's, which is a cognitive distortion. We take it personally. And then we get angry when they don't do what we think they should be doing. So in a perfect world, we marry someone who knows how to take care of themselves and pull their weight in the home. But this isn't a perfect world in our society is in the middle of shifting roles to be more equal.
Yeah, better. Men are primarily bad at this. I would say I think that this is echoed with just about every man I know. I think I think of my friend group and everything else, like maybe some are better than others. But for the most part, this is something I struggle with. Yeah,
yeah. And for years, I had I took it personally because I felt like you were taking advantage or you were neglecting? Or you know, you just weren't really acknowledging that I was doing things. So it made me feel very alone, because I was doing everything around the house and you weren't helping me. But I got to a point where I was like, in multiple therapy sessions, actually it was with my individual and with our counseling, is that or marriage is that you can ask for somebody
to do something. And it's not asking for help. It's just asking to do something around the house. It's okay. Like we put this aside thinking that they need to do this and they should do No, and it makes us feel bad. But men, honestly, you could do a little bit better.
We could but I think that the issue comes from the expectation that's probably not communicated. And that's what the whole segment was about the last time that this is my belief and I stand by this, I'll die on the Hill that uncommunicative expectations are resentments in the making apps, they are, they are the the architecture that will set up huge rifts in a relationship later down the line
if they're not addressed. So this issue of household chores and what's to be done, what's not, there are some people who will do these things. And if they're not getting help, rather than addressing it, they'll just, they'll get hurt by that. They'll get angry by that. Rather than communicating it, they'll just get mad, they'll start to feel like someone's absolutely worthless, that they don't respect me. And like I see
both sides of this. I completely understand it was it's primarily women that were that I was getting roasted by Yeah. That said, like, you're you're an adult, like you're telling me that you can't walk by the trash? No, it needs to be taken out. Like that's supposed to be my job. Right. And I that's completely valid. I totally understand that. Yeah. My only contention to that at all is in the context of communication. If there's an issue, we should talk about it, we should address it.
Yes. Is it bad that you have to ask someone to take the trash out? Yes, yeah. Yes, yeah. But how do we solve that problem, right, we communicate, they communicate. Now we can get into why men are this way. Now? We're not gonna get to that. I think, just on a, you know, on a small tangent, I think that the way that boys are raised by their mothers, yes. Think back, think back a generation or two. It was primarily the men was the head of household. We talked about this when it comes to men's
purpose. And like what's going on with men? Women were the head of household women took care of these things. Like it's not uncommon to find men who don't really know how to do laundry, or have never really cleaned up because their mothers did this for them. I'm talking about like, like younger 20s males. Yeah, like they go out in the world without really knowing how to do a lot of this stuff. Some of its cultural, depending on where you're from, or, you know, the background that you have.
But it's, you know, in a lot of cases, I think that women think that they are getting in relationships with like, these finished products when it's not the case. Yeah, never basically getting, because in a perfect world, this teenager, this like young boy, comes to domestic household duties and whatnot. Yeah. And I think that the communication is the, it's what's going to solve this.
Well, yeah. But there's so many other people that are so resentful, so angry about this, that they're basically just saying, I shouldn't have to ask you, right, you shouldn't. But what if you did
try it? It made my life so much easier. When he brought it up. What happened? You, you helped me and then yeah, I
was, I was embarrassed by it. I was like, Oh, help wrap like Holly. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, you're right. Well, I say
that because I was a stay at home mom. So this was really hard for me to navigate. That was our things that
I worked, who stayed at home to care the kids and it's not, we didn't really sit down and go over the piece of paper. It's like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to do. And this is what you're supposed to
write. And there's nothing wrong with doing that. Well,
I think it could be even helpful to understand like, this is what I would need help with, here's what I will take care of, here's what you will take care of, I think in the 1950s sort of way I we looked at this when we first started this arrangement was that domestic duties you'd handle running the kids around and everything else, and I would handle everything outside of that finances and all that good stuff. Right? And I would mow the yard if that was my thing. Yeah, you did yard stuff would
mow the yard. But we never really discussed, there will be certain times where I'm going to need help one way or the other. Right. And I did the same thing where I would take on like, there was a lot of stuff. When it came to setting up accounts for I don't know, like phone bills, or cable or whatever else like technically that's in my, my arena. Right. But I think you helped with that stuff. Yeah, absolutely. It was a matter of
me asking for help. I think a lot of time this other it's not getting communicated the other way around. And you're right, you shouldn't have to ask, but if you want the whole point of that episode, and I think communication in general, I still believe in this is that it's an excellent way to get what you need out of a relationship is just communicate what you need. Yes, this is what I need. Yeah, here's why would you help me with this? Right? Most people are going to say,
Yeah, I got you. They might even moan about it for a moment, but the end of the day, you're gonna get the help you need. I think that a lot of people's like, feel that there's just sort of ego thing. It's like, I shouldn't have to ask that's how I felt. It was very weird. I understand it, but at the end of the day, like what is that benefiting? If you're not going to ask and then stay upset with this person. It's almost like you're agreeing at that point.
To pick up that load and the I guess your your actions that you're just gonna stay angry with him, and you're just gonna live in this unhappy environment and nothing gets resolved. Because you feel like you shouldn't have to say anything and like, you can do that that's fine and well, but it's just not going anywhere. And that was our entire point was that communication can solve these problems right
now, if you do bring this up to your partner, and they say, No, that's your job, I'm not helping you, then you need to reevaluate, you know, we got a problem. That's a problem, right?
Yeah, you're right. You said it. And of course, valuate the whole relationship, we have a fundamental issue here,
right? Yeah. Like I had always, when in active addiction, it was difficult for me to ask for things because it didn't get done. If I did ask for things, it's likely not going to do it, write about something else or say you're gonna do it. So that was a very unhealthy situation. But now outside of that, it is okay to ask, Hey, pull your weight. Okay. So that will, we're done with that part. And
as far as mind reading goes, now, now that we've had some in depth discussions about responsibilities that you need help with, because it is too much for especially when you have kids, it's too much for one person to handle you've got, like, obviously, we all make our own little messes, but you've got two little kids and their friends that will make, like, I mean, they will completely ruin a house. Within an hour. Yeah, it's like I can't I don't I have
a lot of things to do. I don't have time to help to fix all this crap. I'm gonna need your help. So when I get home now, and I see that the sink is full of dishes and you're busy doing something else, I'm just gonna take care of the dishes. Yes, obviously, you need help, because you've communicated it to me. Exactly. It's not like you just said, Don't worry, I'll get to those later, I got this, which is what I assumed in the beginning, but now you've let me know, I'm gonna need help with
this stuff. When you see it. Grab it. Right. Okay, totally fine. You got it. No problem,
again, help. People got really triggered by
that by the word help. Yes. I mean, what else would you call it? pulling your
weight? Because it's when you say they told you, they were saying when you say that you need help that says that you're responsible for everything, and you just need help. And it just got misconstrued. It really did like it did not in our, but in our arrangement, it made sense for us.
At home mom in general, okay, I see that point, right? If you're in the context of what we were talking about, which was our life, like,
if you're both working, like that makes sense, for sure. Because you, I mean, you should have equal even then
I think that you should help each other out when they're struggling. But you have to communicate it let people know. Yeah, you still
there's nothing wrong with it, it's there. It's there's nothing wrong with asking it, it's just gonna you have to put your ego aside, and it's okay. And it works. And it's amazing. And it will make your relationships so much stronger. And
there are times I come home, and like, I've had a really rough day, and I'm overwhelmed with a million things I have going on at the office. And I will need help. I will need help with something that's part of my
responsibility. Like, I will help like, Hey, could you look into this account and, and settle that out or call customer service, whatever it is, and you'll do it, but I gotta let you know, if I come home just angry and feel like you're not going to help me or that you should know that I'm struggling right now. Rather than communicating it. The that responsibility of being upset actually lays within me. Yeah, at that point. Yeah. That's going to piss people off. But
it's true. Just trying to help people communicate better. That's all.
It's all right. Some things you're not going to like what we say. That's all right. It works for us. So agreeing to disagree, you don't have to agree on everything. This is another thing in communication. Can you think of anything recently that we've had to agree to disagree on?
Yeah, it's like family stuff, holidays coming around? Like, what are we going to attend? What do we not stuff like that?
Okay, yep, that's true. But you did, it's respectful. So okay,
I'm gonna do this, you do that? You know, good. High five. Okay.
All right. Move on. Yeah. Knowing when to step away and take a breather. So say you're in a heated argument and things are just getting, you know, way too fired up. It's okay. To step away and say, I need to go collect myself for a moment and take a breather, like Tofana healthy, but I mean, a lot of people will say, Oh, that's narcissistic. Some people will say that it's because you're deflecting, or you're putting it and shoving it under the rug or
whatnot, but you're not. It's okay to take a breather and step away from a conversation. It's okay to, you know, block people from a little bit so that you don't have to be involved with the whatever's going on. It's okay to just take a step back or just not respond or not respond to people,
right and text or email. Right. That
was another thing that was on here. We'll just go ahead and say no text fighting. Text
fighting is the most useless form of flattery, productive form of fighting in general, I would say yes. Yes. No one reads the texts that you just sent. They just want to send one in reply.
It's all about your reaction. You're reacting. You're not letting this the world revolve before you actually respond.
I have seen text fights go on for hours. For hours between couples, oh yeah, we used
to text. We used to text fight and it didn't do anything, it just made things worse. And now we're just like, Ah, I don't even have time for this. Like, it just takes too much to text fi we'll address it later on, or whenever it gets brought up again, because I don't want to do it over text. Now it's we've gotten better at that fighting. Yeah. Again, not getting defensive. This will help you build a safe space to talk with one another and be vulnerable.
So if you're not defensive, you feel like you can actually open up, you know what you're feeling. So if I were to tell you something about how I'm feeling, and you get really defensive about it, it's gonna make me not want to tell you things in the future, because I don't feel so safe. That makes sense. Yeah. And I have that's me, I get defensive.
I still tell you things, though, you do? Because you don't take it personally. No, that's a you thing.
It isn't me thing. And I know that there isn't anything, I just kind
of let you feel it and then we'll get to the end of it. Yep. It's okay. Like, I mean, I guess I learned this at management is that people aren't going to always like what you say,
yeah, yeah. And you're able to not take it personally, that's important. Almost fell. Validation comes from both sides, we have to validate both parties like each other. It's not just, I'm telling you how I feels you need to validate me, you have to validate the other person as well. And that just means, you know, I understand what you're going through, even if you don't agree, validation,
in my opinion, is the cause of and solution to most of the relationship problems that I see 100% There was an old Simpsons quote that alcohol is the cause of and solution to all of life's problems, which is wow, it is not a solution by any means. It's a funny joke. Obviously, we can appreciate but validation is oftentimes what I'll you get to people who have just dug their heels in. And they want to be heard and the other side refuses to hear them.
And so what you get is just two people who just not being validated by each other. Yeah. And they're just screaming validate me. No, you validate me? No, you validate me. And then you just it's like, never stop. Never circular like that just goes and
goes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I see that a lot. Yep. All right. Compromising. Like goes along a lot, a lot.
A relationship is just agreeing to disagree. Relationships are just a series of compromises marriage, it's just a series of compromises.
You're not gonna get what you want. 100% of the time, it doesn't work that way. I don't remember who
said the quote, but there's a quote that says, There are no such things in as decisions in life only compromises this true, like whenever you decide to do one thing you are in fact compromising for another, you are making a compromise to not do something else making a compromise to meet someone half halfway, but like, good negotiators compromisers this is like, you know, meet me halfway or meet me the whole way and understand why and just, you know, swallow your pride and
compromises, man compromises. It's an it's a lost art in so many ways. Yeah, I read this book called never split the difference, which is actually like the antithesis of compromise. But it was written by an FBI hostage negotiator. And the book is about basically how to get through some really, really difficult negotiations. Like he's talking to people who are, you know, insane with guns
and whatnot. Yeah, but he has some really, really effective tools for how to get through to people in really, really bad situations. Like when stuff gets really hostile and people are arguing and fighting and you have to go the restroom. Don't you do? You're bouncing all over the place? Oh, my gosh. But yeah, never split the difference, even though it sounds like there's no better work. It's a way to get what you need, make people feel safe.
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Okay, so what do our arguments look like? I kind of wanted to give an example of a recent recent situation that happens. So you had like, when you have a stressful situation and you bring it to my attention, I made three throw out solutions. And you calmly stopped me and you say, I don't want solutions. Right now. I just want to talk about how I'm feeling. And when you bring that to my attention, I pause and I say I'm sorry, I'm here for you.
I'll listen. I don't get defensive or try to justify why I was providing solutions. I let it go and I let you talk. Do you remember when that happened recently? Yeah, it was actually over text messages.
No, it wasn't either one. I remember it was over the phone. Oh. Oh, you're right. It happened over text to Okay. You do this thing. Where you have no patience for me when I'm struggling and you're just like you stupid MF er, fix it this way. I'm tired of listening to you complain about this thing?
Okay. You fix it. I don't say it that way. Oh, good curries how it feels? Okay. But that's not that this is what I was saying that validation goes both ways. Because this is definitely my part. Like, you used to do this to me. And then I do it to you. Like we're both at fault here. Get us go. I know, girl, baby. But I did. I was like, I was proud of myself when I'm just like, Okay, I'm gonna take a moment. He's right. And I'm just going to let him vent. And that's what happened.
And it was great.
Yeah. And it was it was, it's just the stuff like that will come up. It's not that big of a deal. What really matters is how you acknowledge it move forward. Make that right. Yeah,
yeah. And like, another situation is I was, I was recently again, stressed. So my communication skills have kind of gone out the window. And I was hanging out on our daughter. And I was like, I don't know, I'm really bad about it. And, and I had a conversation with her after it happened. And I was telling her like, I'm sorry, it was not a reflection of her at all, I explained that I was taking my stress out on her and that that wasn't okay. And I just felt really guilty about
it. And she, I mean, she handled it pretty well, she's 11. And it as parents also wise, as parents, we, we we try to do the best we can, but we still lacking the communication department as well. And I called Matt after the conversation, because I needed to process this with somebody. And I used to be scared to do things like that, because I didn't know how to approach the topic. Like I didn't know how to approach it in a healthy way. Or I didn't have a safe space to really communicate it
with you. Is that because I would just try to offer solutions or tell you what you should be doing. Exactly, exactly.
And I was like, Okay, I need to talk to him about this. I need to talk to somebody and he was my safe space. So
I remember this conversation. I don't mean to cut you off. But when we were having this conversation, I was actively telling myself in my mind, just listen to her, just listen to her. Let her know she's okay. And just let her talk. Rather than trying to offer you solutions or interject to make you feel better about it or anything else. I just let you process it. But I was it was called I had to tell myself to do it. Because this isn't where
my brain goes naturally. But I think it's important to acknowledge that because it doesn't come natural. And so we will have to force it at times.
Yes, yes. That's awesome.
But you didn't know any different as you. You didn't know that I was actively trying to like know exactly. You were being very intentional. In that moment. You felt like you got the conversation that you needed. Yeah, better afterward. And that was growth for both of us. Yeah,
that's awesome. Because I was telling you how I felt like a bad mom. And I knew where it was coming from and that I was working to correct it. And I wasn't asking you to tell me that I'm not a terrible mom. You know, I wasn't looking for reassurance there. This was literally me, being so open and vulnerable with you to where I'm like, I need to process and I just need to talk to you and I need to hold myself accountable
and speak my truth out loud. And I was correcting the issue by speaking with you without you telling me what to do. It was a good conversation was Yeah. And I was grateful for you in that moment. Because it was huge growth for both of us. Yeah, that's
that's new style conversation. That's very productive.
Yes. And it's going to spill over into my other relationships with my children, obviously. So all of this obviously takes practice, like we've been saying it does take we're gonna make mistakes. That's okay. but it does become easier with time when you have intention. So I did. This last piece is going to talk about picking your battles.
Why are you looking at me? I think I'm fairly good at this one.
No, I think you're great at this. Um, I think we're both pretty decent with picking our battles. So like, let's say, Do you try to control what your partner wears? I don't know clothing? Oh, no, you don't give a crap what I wear at all? No, I don't. I typically don't care what you wear either. But I do know relationships where, you know, their partner is very vocal on how they should present themselves, on how their spouse spouse should present
themselves. So we recently had a discussion on how we should dress at certain events. And I didn't address it in a way of being demanding. It was more of addressing it in a way of like, Hmm, what are your thoughts on this? Right? Yeah, because we were we went to multiple events this past weekend, where, you know, a lot of people were dressed up. Yes. With jackets and suits, and glitter and glam and all this fun stuff. And Matt was Matt.
Took away but yeah, I, man. I don't know if I'm just anti establishment in general. But I think when I'm told to do something, for the sake of just being told to do it, and I can't see an actual purpose for it, I always question it. I think just goes back to the way I am. I don't know why I'm like this. I
just am very down. Like, actually, I
like this question. And I'm like, Okay, is it necessary that we all do this? Because I don't know. Is there a dignitary there is like the king going to be there? Or is it just because people want to feel like they're dressed up on a night out? And it feels special? Because everyone's dressed up? Right? And if so, like, do I have to participate? Does it really matter if I'm not wearing a collar? Like, is it that big of a deal? I wasn't trying to wear flip flops and beer shorts,
right? But anyway, you
always look good no matter what. But anyway,
you brought it up to me. And you let me say my piece, which is basically me just complaining and moaning about how the idea of dressing up is silly. Which I will do don't get me wrong, but generally, it's when I'm directly involved in something like I've officiated weddings, I'm absolutely going to ask the bride, what would you like me to wear? Right? They told me to get a green suit. I'll go get a green suit. Right there wedding? I'm happy to do
that. Yeah. If I'm in a crowd of 1000 people, does it really matter how I'm dressed? If I'm essentially just how everyone else is dressed? Do I have to wear a color? Why do we have to wear collars? What's a collar? Anyway? Who invented Okay, here we go. Why do we have this little wife on our neck to say that we're dressed up nicely, and I just can't wear a tight shirt with some slacks. And that's, that's I don't know, it's very arbitrary. To me. This is the stupid crap that goes
through my head, though. And so we had a conversation about it. And she let me you know, complain and moan about it. And then at the end of it, I was like, alright, I'll go get dressed.
Yes. But this is one of those agreeing to disagree type thing. It was absolutely agreed disagree, because I can understand why certain events, you know, ask you to dress a certain way, I can understand that for from a respectful point of view, but you were we this is just where we meet in the middle and we compromise and we just do our thing. But I'm not demanding on what you should be doing. We just have a nice conversation about it. And we're debate and
we move on. But I do think there are some couples out there where maybe the partner is very, like, you need to be dressing this way. And that's End of story. Is it worth it? I don't know. Pick your battles? Maybe maybe not. I don't you're very difficult to argue with. And actually one of our our good friend couples, we've discussed this before, because he can't argue with his wife for the same reasons. Like they just y'all, you know who I'm talking about? No, like are
besties? No, dang it. Okay, well, he can't he can't argue with his wife because she will come at him. Like it. Tell him that he is wrong constantly, all the time. And that's how I felt with you. I can't argue with you. There's no arguing with you. You're right. You're like, you're right. So I've learned to really pick my battles. And I'm like, This is not even worth this discussion. Sanity at this
moment. It's not, it's not and that kind of goes to our next point of like, do you feel like you have to talk about how you feel about everything. And yes, it's important to be able to speak our minds and how we're feeling but we don't have to communicate our feelings on every single thing that comes to mind, especially if it's like controlling or critical. If we do feel the need to address everything on our mind, we need to approach it in a way that is non judgmental, or it doesn't
come from an emotional space. So I was a very critical person early on in our relationship. We don't have to tell our partners everything we feel because sometimes those feelings are not facts. and they can be extremely hurtful. It's best to discuss some of these things with a professional instead to see if you have a cognitive distortion. So because criticism can lead, it leads to our partner to become defensive, and it's ugly.
It's something that I've really had to work on my entire adult life.
A lot of times criticism comes from a place of like, sort of the cognitive distortion of all or nothing or perfection. And thinking that everything's supposed to be a certain way, perfect way, the way I expect things to be. And when people don't live up to those expectations, we get critical of them without understanding that we're human, and we're going to make mistakes, and we're not going to be perfect. Yeah. So just because I don't exactly
like my hair cut. It doesn't mean you have to tell me it looks like absolute crap and laugh about it. Right? Just because just because the thought came to your mind doesn't mean it needs to leave your mouth. Hilary Swank, yeah. Yeah, I've had some bad cuts in my day. And it does not feel good. When you get laughed at for like, I know, it's bad enough. I mean, it's not that big of a deal. But I
learned this as well. And basically, the way I summed this up, in my mind is that I can't be held accountable for the things I never say. Yeah. So I don't, I don't have to say like, I can't be held responsible for the things that never leave my mouth. But I can have the thought, right, but is it? Is it worth what's coming? If I vocalize it? Yeah, there are some things that are big deals. Don't get me wrong. Talk about those things. Yes. But not everything's a big problem.
Right? Not everything. Right. Right.
And that, like people have quirks?
Yes, absolutely. You're gonna have quirks and they're not going to be perfect. Like, there's some compromises you make in a relationship where you're not going to meet my every expectation, but that's who you are. And I can accept that. And I love you. Yeah, that's compromise. Yeah. So some of these things are not they don't challenge my values. They're not deal breakers. But I think a lot of people look at relationships and say, that just basically everything's a deal
breaker. And it's not the case, not everything is a deal breaker, right? It's not let
it go. Just let some of this stuff go. Right.
So like a lot of the stuff we usually talk about here. Those are deal breakers, deal breakers.
Absolutely. This is important things that are like really going to affect your mental
health things that are not deal breakers is the way that you keep your car, which looks like people live in. And every time I get in there, it's like, smells funny, and it's packed full of trash. And I'm like, I can say it a million times, but you're probably never going to change. And at the end of the day, is it affecting me. It's not my car. It's your car. Right? That's this you have to live in it. You have to drive it. It's your problem. Yeah. Does it really affect me? No. Is
it? Does it do any good to bring it up and criticize you every time for it when you're probably never going to change? No, I accept that cork, it is what it is. Thank you. Not a big deal. Thank you. It was a lot of weird stuff like that, that people do. Yeah.
So I was gonna say, you know, if you get upset if your partner is loading the dishwasher wrong, or if you make a comment about how they're folding towels incorrectly, or maybe they're decorating the Christmas tree wrong, like that kind of stuff. I've I've seriously let go. It's not that big of a deal. It takes way too much energy to critique you on how you're doing something than it is to just let you do it doesn't really affect me
is that I think about things like that. And I think about the day work because we're not no one lives forever. But I'll probably die before you just statistically. But if I don't I'll think about the things that you used to do that I used to criticize you for some of the things that I will love you for more than anything the things I will remember you by the way, they used to fold
towels. That was wrong, but it was hilarious, because it wasn't the way I did that stuff I love about you the way that you kept your car gross. Like, I will come to miss those things. If it was if everyone was just like you, it wouldn't be fun. Like that's, there's what's the fun in that relationship? Right? It's it's about learning to live
with someone else. It's about learning to accept people like relationships can teach us so much about just the world in general, how much we accept what we can and can't control and what we're willing to live with and not but there's some people who will dig their heels in and say like, there's a basically a rulebook and if you don't hit every one of these, we got a problem. Well, I
want to challenge our listeners, if they haven't put their Christmas decorations up, and they have children of age to, you know, be involved. Let them do it without you moving. They're the decorations. Um, you know, we're
talking about some people take Christmas time, frickin I
know, that's blood. So I allow the kids to set things up the way that they want. And sometimes I will move something and my kid definitely has called me out within the past few years. Yeah, quit moving my stuff. For a reason. It hurt his feelings because he's like, you know, is it not good enough? Is it not good enough and that it's true. It's like, is it really that big of a deal that you put a Santa claws on the corner instead of in the center where I
would have put it. You know, just some of those things, it's growth to let your kids kind of just take it and see what they do. And you can make it magical that way. Just like our Christmas tree. It's pretty basic. We don't have it perfect. We were very classic. Just I let the kids do what they want with the tree. And I did tell them to put the balls on first instead
of the specialty. Yeah, cuz you want those decorations because I want the special ones to show but that was like that was that was like the one guy who was like the one guidance I gave them Yeah, and and I just kind of let them go with it because I wanted them to be a part of it. So if you're brave enough, or just give them a table to decorate if you don't want to do the whole thing, you know, I just that kind of stuff. I just let I let go.
Yeah, don't take life so seriously.
Right. And that was the next the last thing is have fun in your relationship. Like we there are times Matt has put ice water in my shower. Oh,
no, that's That's hilarious. This is a bit that we started doing back and forth. And I don't remember why I did this for the first time. I thought it just be fun. It was from Sopranos. So I was that was from Yes. Okay. So wait till your spouse is washing their hair when their eyes are closed. And you have the time it just right washing their face. Yeah, and then go get go get a cup of cold water and over the top of the shower, douse it on and that is the most jarring thing in the
world. So I did it to you and then you did it back to me and then we just do
this. Yeah, and so yeah, I got angry at first but then I laugh about it. You know? We Nerf gun wars. He likes to shoot me with Nerf guns. Sometimes that would piss me off. Nowhere near the face though. Just in the book. No, thank you. But it's fun. Like we have fun with stuff. What are the what are other pranks that you do? I grew up with all brothers. So I think that that had a lot to do with my mental like how what I deal with and what I don't sort of used to be messed with. Oh my
gosh, go back. Yes, exactly. I was messed with for even my dad. He's messed with me. Like that's just like what I grew up with. So being with Matt wasn't wasn't that weird. But there are some people who I've posted stuff online of things. Or Matt has posted stuff online that he's done. And people were like, Ah, he would be sleeping in the dog house. He would be sleeping on the couch. He would not be alive to
your dancing. Was he still alive work out? Yeah. And you were like full in it. Man. You were going hard. And I turned the corner and I was filming you and I posted it. People like so cold blooded. Why would you do that? Might chewing cares. Thanks. Funny. Yeah, I mean, if I told you I was gonna do it, you'd like don't post that. But I did. And knew that you would really wouldn't care.
I mean, you're mindful about things you do. I just don't take it so seriously. Yeah, don't just have fun. It's fine.
Try not to take things too seriously. But life, they're small problems in
Exactly. Which you usually get mad about the small things and not the stupid things.
So we've had
that conversation before. Yeah, but Okay, so like, do you have anything else to add to this? I mean, I hope that people can get away and and learn a thing or two from healthy communication.
I think communication is important. Anytime you're trying to communicate your needs, don't let don't let on communicated expectations become resentments in your relationship, that then start to attach themselves to other things. And before you know it, you just hate each other. Talk about this stuff, if you have difficulty talking about it. And this episode is not detailed enough or not
specific enough. I strongly encourage marriage counseling like marriage counseling does not and you don't show up there because your marriage is failing. I think you show up there when you want it to be better. And it's maintenance. Like you change your oil in a car, right? Well, why don't you get a marriage counseling, it's just maintenance, it's maintenance and healthy
communication. Because the older we get, oftentimes, the more we get stuck in our ways, and the more ideas become cemented, or they're harder to change, not as malleable. And counseling is a great way to just have open communication about this stuff before it becomes a major issue. Now, if it is a major issue, it's also a great place to work through that stuff. I would just encourage people to take it seriously. If you've got serious resentments about some things. And there's it feels like
there's no moving past it. You know, we've like written things like drop the rope, which is essentially counseling in a nutshell. But it's helpful to go get a third party to talk you through this stuff, someone who's trained and allowing that type of communication to flow and teaching you how to do it. Yeah. Just it's crucial man, like, if you're in a marriage with somebody, and there are some things that we talked about that our deal breakers, these
things are against my values. I don't appreciate cheating, lying, stealing, alcoholism, emotional or psychological abuse, physical abuse, like those are deal breakers. Yeah. The way that someone loves a dishwasher is not right. But if that if that becomes such a big issue, like there are larger problems at play here. Yeah, so many other issues. That's something that you cannot let
go. And I think that's just a sign of it's like tip of the iceberg if there are bigger problems in this relationship. Yeah, for sure. Hold on too tight, just holding on way too tight. I think if we got anything going for us at all, it's that we don't we don't hold on super tight to things like that. Yeah, there are big problems. They're small problems, we can move past some of this other stuff. But oftentimes we're talking about
big issues on this podcast. And I don't want people to think that if that's the issue, that that's not a big one, because that is a big issue. Yeah. fundamental issue in a relationship, right? We're talking about later down the line. How because it's tough to move from what we went through into a normal relationship. And it takes a long time to get there. It doesn't happen
overnight. Yes. Like, we had to learn how to communicate again, it's like you're, you're in a relationship with a new person. And I had to learn a ton in a short period of time. And I just, you have to be patient with each other. Right? Don't forget that. We are all struggling with the pains of adulting. And growing up, everyone, no matter what your age is. Everyone struggles with it. Yeah, have patience for each other. If you're putting forth the effort, then you're gonna be
fine. Yep. As long as you're putting forth the effort, you're gonna be fine. The only time we ever have issues when someone says I'm not changing. Okay, goodbye, then.
Right? That's all and there's no accountability for how you react or act then yeah, that's a problem. That's
a deal breaker. Yeah, absolutely. People are trying, man, just be patient. Be patient, good stuff. But I would also say argue that this is really bad. A lot of dudes do this. I'm trying to get better like Yoda said, Do or do not. There is no trial.
You said that to me the other day it made me mad. That's true, though, man. Like his turn it I said
it's a kid. It's like, I'm trying to eat better right now. Now either eat better or you don't eat better. There's no trying to eat better. Yeah, you just do it or you don't. Right. Like, you got to shift your mind having the intention of eating lettuce and eating candy instead is not the same as eating healthy. Yeah, it's not. But when someone is actively trying, like, like me, like trying to listen to you, instead of interjecting or not really paying attention. There'll be
times where I slip. But most of the time I'm getting it right. I'm trying that's what trying looks like to me. Trying is not just thinking about doing better and doing nothing different. Right. It's an intentional, intentional, yeah, intentions versus actions. Go back and check that one out. Yeah. Okay. I think that's all we got, right? Yes. Now we get to edit and put this out within less than 24 hours. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you guys for joining
us. Until next time, I am Matt I pay and we'll see