Codependency - It's NOT What You Think

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housekeeping items. Let's get to the episode. All right. All right. We're talking codependency today, something that we hear about God from so many people when we started this thing we've mentioned last episode, we never dreamed that we would we would attract so many people that were dealing with this. Yeah, yeah. But I think that our experience tells us that we found a way out and they want to know more about it. Right. But we've never really exclusively covered this in an

episode. Because I think that it's got to the word itself kind of throws people off. So bad. I think that when codependency is something you call someone else when you're talking crap about them, not something you ever identify us. Yeah, it's got such a stigma related to it, right. So can I just say people listening to this, please have an open mind about this, because I did not for many years. And if I would have had an open mind about this, I would have healed a lot quicker and a lot sooner.

So So let's give a clinical definition. It's not clinical, because it's not a clinic diagnosis, necessarily. Word came around in like the 70s. So it's often described as a dysfunctional pattern of behavior that develops in relationships where one person is over overly reliant on another person's approval or validation. This can result in the codependent person neglecting their own needs and prioritizing the needs of the other person, even to their own

detriment. Codependency can also be characterized by a strong desire to control or fix the other person's behavior, even when it is not in their best interest. It's a good definition Yes, it is basically covers what we've always talked about, right all known about codependent people. But we're gonna dig deeper into this episode. Yeah, we were. So we were working on something earlier. And this, this thought came to us and it's the law of

attraction. The Law of Attraction essentially states that we attract people and things and subjects that we focus on the most. So have that in mind as we kind of move through this and stay with me the law of attraction so you attract what you focus on the

most. So as a codependent person, if you're focusing on finding a partner that is just like you, someone that is overly reliant on another's approval or validation because you think that if you had someone who's felt the same way and they gave you that, then you would be made whole but it backfires. What actually happens is that you attract someone who is overly reliant on something, but it's generally not you. It's usually a substance. Yeah. And that's why these two personalities so often

end up together, right? We attract each other. Like this. Cosmic force pulls us together. I was attracted to you and you were attracted to me for different reasons. Yeah. I thought you were going to fill a void in some way. I was searching for something else, though. I just needed you along for the ride. And you were looking for someone that would make you feel whole and complete. Yeah. And that you could, you know, I was a project. I was like a 69 Camaro that needed a motor and a paint

job. Oh, yeah, I wanted that project. I was like, I can fix him. Let me come in, scoop him up and make him better. So there are some let's forget about the definition. Keep stay open minded. And let's just talk through some of the ways that this I guess it shows itself in real life. Okay. So do you self sacrifice your own well being for others? I did. I think this applies to a lot of moms out there too. Man. When I'm reading this, I'm just like, that's every mom ever. Are you a people

pleaser? Do you not want to rock the boat? Do you not say what everyone else is thinking? Because you don't want to cause a stir? Are you constantly worried about how to fix your relationship? Always thinking about what can I change? What can I do different? What? What do they need to do different? What needs to happen in our relationship? Here's another one. Does your partner's mood determine your mood? Oh, yeah, that's a big one. Right?

Yep. They come home in a bad mood or they're mad about something and automatically, you're the you're just like him? Are you trying to control their emotions? Do you feel like you can fix others? Do you need to be needed? I think we all need to be needed. Yeah. Some cases more severe than others. Yes. That's what we're referring to here. Do you have a high tolerance for abuse? That's a crazy concept. I love like I've always said I had a high pain tolerance some other people do

when it comes to abuse. They can let other people walk all over them in ways that would blow your mind. Yeah, yep. They have a high tolerance for layer doormats. Are you obsessed with changing someone else? Do you constantly battle wanting to leave? But also feeling guilty? Over choosing yourself? One of the most toughest predicaments to be put in? Ever? Do you feel that your loved one loves the bottle more than you?

Or that the person you love? is no longer the person that you see everyday with your own eyes? Like you think they're in there, but maybe not. Yeah. And I think that there's this, this concept that caregiving that I'm loving you and in return I should receive love. But caregiving takes on the form of enabling sometimes is not necessarily love, right? These are all characteristics or questions to ask someone who might be codependent. And it's, it's a

huge loaded concept. I know we don't have a ton of time here. But let's sort of dive into this and explore it. And I'd love to really pick your brain. Because you have identified as codependent Yes. All right. What were you what was your thought the first time this was brought to you, okay, be this thing? Well, when you were in treatment, it was the first time I heard this word. And I said, No, there's no way that's not who I am. I can take care of myself. I can pay for my own

bills, I can do what I need. And I did not listen to anything else after I heard that word. Because it meant to me that I wasn't independent. That was ridiculous. Sort of sort of what a headset though is you're right. But I wasn't or I was not ready to look within myself. Because when you went to rehab, you went to treatment. I thought that is his problem. That's your problem thing. You're the one who needs to be fixed, not me.

But I was still willing to look through some things within the you know, the the program that I went through, they did help me process some things, but with the codependent part. There's no way I didn't want to look at it. I was like, that's not me. I'm not even going to dig into that. Yeah, I've got no problem here. Right? No problem whatsoever. So you got you got sober. And everything was okay. With both of us for about two years. I'd say two to three years, maybe a little bit longer. And then

what? Oh, no, I was just listening. Okay, I thought you were gonna do anything? Oh, no, I think I agree with you totally. Like in the beginning. When I got when I cleaned up, our relationship did get better in so many ways, because we were communicating in a healthy way we were communicating period. Yeah. I was more present in our lives. I was some of the problem, right? Some of it, right? Absolutely. But I was in denial with my own problems because I was kind of faking it.

Eventually, things came to the surface where my anxiety got really bad again, I started having panic attacks again. And I was like, I was depressed. And I was, you know, I almost asked you to take me to mental institute because I couldn't handle living at this time. Can we back up for one moment? Yeah. So I was thinking about this earlier. So codependency stems from things that have happened

generally in the past. It's usually like when you dig into this with someone, a therapist, someone who's licensed to deal with the past trauma and stuff in the past, a lot of times it comes from the past, right? And so I think about were there signs of this before we ever gotten married? Were there signs of this when we first got together? And there's a resounding yes, there are water signs. Yeah, I was gonna bring that up. Oh, you were I was

okay. That was a big deal. Yeah, I just remember being a teenager and like, you were the girlfriend, that man, psycho calling me like if I didn't answer my phone, like, blown me up over and over and over and over. Or if I wanted to, like, go hang out my friends. Yeah. You did not like that. Man. That meant that I liked my friends more than you like being around you. Yeah. Like those emotions went so far so deep. I thought that all girls was just that way. It's just the way that

girls were. I don't mean that ugly. I just, I had dealt with it to an extent. And they're like, oh, yeah, that's just how it is. I had a very low self esteem. So I and I had issues with the codependency. But I didn't realize this was much of a problem until I started to get up until recently, honestly, until I really started my healing process to see where my personal challenges were and where I could fix or correct and heal and deal with my stuff. You've done an amazing job, too.

I guess. Sort of like a lot of things in life like with with age comes wisdom. So I think you think you grow out of this crap as you get older. I don't think that every girl that's that wants to be around someone they love is codependent. It's not an all or nothing like no, I think that new I think some people, most people probably become more secure and who they are. And as they age like, Man, I don't need anybody. I'm good. Yeah, fine. I'm not blowing anyone up like

that. I'm good. But I think for others, like in our situation, especially there was it was much deeper than that. Right? So my point with all of this was that just because Matt got sober didn't mean that everything was fine. And that's where we actually come in and decided to even share most of our story because we realized that we both had a part in this. Yeah. And I, I had to dig into my defects. I mean, I call them defects because it doesn't bother me

that they were my defects. They were things that I had to challenge myself and actually work through. So with that said, why don't we dig deep into what, like some of the codependency traits or symptoms are okay, those are good. So we asked some of the questions earlier for identifiers, like if do you feel this way? That could be a sign so there are some pretty common traits? Yes. So difficulty making decisions or asserting

oneself. I had that because I always wanted you to make the decisions for me and it was I never really asserted myself either because I didn't have that self esteem to be like, Okay, no, this is what I want. Is that worthy, worthy. The timeless argument about where we eating dinner comes from? Absolutely. You know, I just saw it. Oh, my gosh, okay. So so when she says, I'm good with anything, that's a codependent

behavior. People pleasing behavior is that you know, not wanting to make a decision for for fear of upsetting someone else. Yes. But you know what you want, right? You know that you wanted McDonald's. Something has obviously happened in some of our past where someone told us no constantly and rejected us. Every time we asked that question word, I get it. I'm just saying is that what is behind that? Fight? Because I just came to me, I'm like, not wanting to assert yourself. But

dinner conversation. Oh, crap. Yeah. Everyone fights over that. Everybody? Okay, sorry, me. No, that's good. Okay, so a tendency to take on responsibility for others feelings and actions, which is what you said earlier about taking on people's emotions. That's definitely something I've worked on for many years. I think I've gotten pretty good at it. You've gotten really good at that. Fine. Feeling bad. You're like Sucks to be you, dude. Yep. A fear of abandonment or

rejection. Same thing about the rejection of asserting yourself. You're scared that someone's going to reject you or say no, yeah, and validate what you feel. Yep, difficulty saying boundaries or saying no. Hang on. No, that wasn't geared towards you. That was towards me. Okay. No, I thought about the squabbling, no down. Low self esteem or a lack of self worth. I think that everything is stemmed from that like all of these. That's like the main thing. The main driver, the main

Yeah. A tendency to prioritize others needs over one's one's own. That's like caretaking to an extreme and you completely forget yourself. Yeah. Um, A need for control or perfectionism. Did you have that one to check all these boxes? I checked so many of the boxes. Okay, and just thinking, what? It's maybe a stupid question. But is it sort of a spectrum? Like you can have? Yes, a few of these are the some of them. Don't

identify. Okay, gotcha. Yep. It's not all or nothing. It's like it's in between you can you can have a few of these. And it can be really bad. You could have a lot of them and be super mild, but it's fine. Yeah. But if you feel like your life is unmanageable, and there's something going on, then yeah, you definitely, if you have trouble in your relationships, if you have, especially if you have an addict in your life, there's a good chance this is

going on. Yep. Enabling behavior, we're actually going to do another episode on enabling behavior because it's, it can go in pretty deep, we can go pretty deep into that one. Because people, when we enable we do it with good intentions. It's not like we're doing it on purpose to hurt anybody. But in reality, it does. Hurt people. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Yeah. So denial. Yep. That was me. Chronic self sacrifice, basically. Yeah, that sums you up in so many ways. Yeah, I

think that yeah, man. And it sucks, too, because I think we just described some very noble characteristics as well. Like, when you think about someone who's codependent, it's much easier to have empathy and sympathy for someone who's dealing with that, as opposed to this dude who just chooses to drive to a dealer's house and get loaded every day. Right? Oh, right. Right. With this stuff. It's, it's, I mean, you're trying to do the right thing. You just want to be loved, you

want to be admired. You want to be picked up and told that you're amazing. It's like, God, why is that such a bad thing? And it's not. It's not when you find the right person. But the fact remains, this starts within 100%. Right? This is a battle that starts within Yeah, and you can't attract someone that does that. If you're not focusing first on yourself, on what you need to do to be happy, sans all of this

crap. Someone else and what they're going to do for you and how they're going to fill this void in your life. It starts with us. Yeah. So where do we take it from here? Yeah. So how do we do this? You tell me. There's like this is a process and everybody needs to be patient with themselves. I mean, the first thing you need to do is be aware and be open minded, like we said at the beginning of this episode, is that whenever you look with be willing to look within yourself and really see

what needs to change. Because the reality is you cannot change somebody in your life. You can't change their actions, you cannot fix them, you can't do anything, but you can change you. And that comes from finding awareness and figuring out what is within you that needs to be changed. And there's nothing wrong with it. It sounds scary, right? Like, all of this sounds scary. Because you're thinking, why do I need to change? Why does this person not need to change? Why

do I need to? Because from experience, we learned that just because he changed, doesn't mean that I changed to know. And that really did prove to me that there was something else going on here. All these Kooks that talk about this for work. Correct. And they were right. Yep. I think anytime you start to tackle something this deep seated, you have to look at your past. And I think for everybody, this is a very individual journey when you go and look in

the past. So like, so we coach people and coaching, we generally look forward, right? We're looking at what's going on right now. And let's look at the next year, two years, five years, right? And what's gonna have to change for you to get to where you want to be, let's set a goal. Let's set a vision for who you want to be, you know, when your eulogy is written, how do you want it written? That's what we do. But we go into the past. That's, that's more therapy that's more clinical.

But so I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time other than than to preface it by saying that this isn't something we specialize in, which is the past and what causes this stuff, and healing the trauma that usually results in these types of behaviors. Yeah, because that's what it usually boils down to.

It's some sort of trauma. Yeah, in childhood, most of the time, whether it's growing up in a dysfunctional family, and not having your emotional needs met, or being in a relationship with an addict at some point in your life, that they will scar you for the rest of your life. Right. Without realizing trauma or abuse, we kind of mentioned that. Just always having a low self esteem or low self worth. I know that a lot of the same characteristics, a lot of the same things are at the root of

addiction. As I went through my stuff to you know, fix me, this is the stuff that I had to look in the mirror and face this is the stuff that I had to get a piece of paper out and talk about with somebody this is like painful, deep seated stuff. And there's also this this cultural or, I guess societal expectation to prioritize caregiving over self care. So not so much in the past but just in in society.

Indian culture like, I think a lot of is generational to like, I think a lot of us probably listening, have a grandparent, the most selfless human being in the world who will, you know, do anything for you Who will cook no matter what time it is, we'll do anything for the family selflessly. And just, it's amazing. But I always wonder what's going on with Granny's life and what granny wants?

Yeah, you know, but I think that it also creates an expectation for later generations that come that this is how you perform. And this is what we do. And this is how you act. But it's not always what's best for the individual, in fact, rarely, right? It just kind of comes from nowhere. It's arbitrary. Really. Yeah. And we were talking about this earlier how codependency and addiction isn't your fault. But it is your

responsibility. It is like one of the hardest truths to accept is that may not be your fault. Why you are the way you are, but you're the only one that's gonna get you out of this. Yeah, it's your responsibility to fix it. Right. So which means digging deep and accepting reality and what's going on within you. Yeah. And so a lot of the a lot of the people that we hear from via social media, the DMS looks something like this, what do I do about my

addicted partner? What do I do about this person that won't quit using what do I do about this person? That's a denial. How do I get them to see these problems? There is no clean cut answer for that. There's just not like there's no magic bullet. It's like, oh, try this method. Try that doesn't really work that way. No, it doesn't. I know that there are some people out there who don't believe in

tough love. But I will tell you firsthand, and from the 1000s of accounts that I have been witness to, from people who are sober today will tell you that consequences help get you sober. Exactly. That's not the end all be all, or else everyone in prison would be sober. But they're not. I mean, it's not the end all be all. There's some other pieces that need to be present, you know, for that, for

that recipe to work. The other ingredients happened to be desperation, willingness, and then this perfect storm of opportunity. And then the ability to look within and be like, alright, what am I really going to have to do to fix this? What am I really going to have to do you put your happiness first, but consequences are part of it. Yeah, they are part of it. But I promise you what's not part of it is if people just would have loved me more, if they just would have tried harder than I

would have been fixed. Right? Like you can't love someone out of this crap. No, you can't. And I think that's it's so hard. Because logically we think, Well, if I just did XYZ, then I would get that result. This is not the way the mind works. That's not the way love works. That's not the way the relationships work. It sucks. But that's why we're here. But then you grow from it and you learn from it and you do the hard things and it's like, oh,

wow, yeah, it's hard work. But dang is it worth it once you guys go through it? Yeah, so let's address some of this stuff. Okay, rest codependency. Okay, so we're, obviously can't tell you how to fix codependency in one episode, because it is a process. It's individual. So we're just going to break down just a few pieces like of what we how we help others. So setting boundaries and learning to say no, and that no is a complete sentence, right?

Practicing self care and prioritizing your own needs. Very difficult. A lot of people because once again, especially as women like you're the caretaker like you're the nurturer like you're this idea of like, like home for everyone. But, you know, you gotta make time for yourself as well. And that is oh, it's not selfless. That hang on selfish. It's just self care. Yeah, yeah. I'm seeking support from a support group like to folk

community. We have a lot of people in there who they posted anonymously, and they asked for help on very specific situations. And we chime in. And I think that we're, we're building a great group of people to help process problems and timeout real quick. I want to shout out our community. Yeah, when we first started, I thought we might get crickets. But we've had some people come in, they're extremely vulnerable and share

what they're going through. And we'll respond but not just us, the community respond, right. And it can be done anonymously, which I love about it. Because you may not want people to know that this person on Facebook is going through this. Some people don't mind but think for others. It's like, I can share with you what I know and what I've been through my experience with this thing or just to let you know that you're not alone. And I love how they pick each other up. Yeah, I just freaking love

it. I'm so proud of everybody, right? So and it helps you not feel alone. And that's a great way to start getting getting support. Also learning to communicate effectively and express your own needs and emotions. Very hard to do when you're with an addict though because you're not dealing with a rational person. We've discussed this in prior episodes. We did an episode on communication. Yeah,

communicating your needs. We've also done an episode an episode on I don't remember the name of it, but if you go to our website www.tufo.com I believe that you've got to exercise up there for healthy communication, don't you? Ie maybe Yeah, I'm talking about the I feel statements and all that. Yeah, that's, that's yes, that's in our boundaries. I think the

boundaries exercise. Okay. So I was going to discuss our guides, so that we can be, if you need help starting, we actually have a lot of guides, like you said on our website, and one of them is a healing guide to living with an alcoholic or addict. So it talks about codependency enabling behaviors. And then there's also some exercises in here to help you kind of process through it to see if it's something that you need to work on. And then you can ask us, and we can help you through that.

Next process. Yeah, it's, it's awesome. A lot of time has gone into these ton of research. And they're effective. That's my favorite part. It's not just something we wrote, like, they actually work. Yeah, there are some guides in there that I've put together myself. And then I go in, and I'm like, I have a problem that I need to process and I'll do it. And it works.

It's amazing. I love it. Okay, so in summary, we've talked about what is codependency what are some signs, you might be codependent, what are some of the symptoms? How does this thing show itself in life? And then, okay, ultimately, if you're sold that you might be one of these people, then what do we do about it? And what do

we do about it? And if you follow our social media accounts, we have tons and tons of rules about stuff like this page is really good about making sure that people who suffer from this don't feel alone. It's a very lonely if you're not ready right now to deal with it. That's perfectly fine. That's fine. It is a process like we sometimes it takes years to get ready to really tackle something this big. Totally fine. We are here for you. In the meantime, we will love you until you can

love yourself. Yes. Okay. Well, I think that's all we've got, other than to tease that we've got something so cool in the works right now that I wanted to talk about it. And Paige told me I can't yet she told me it's shut up. So I'm gonna shut up. I just want you all to know that when we started this thing, we said it was going to be big, and it's going to be big, we change lives. And one day, I hope that we look back on this episode, it's like, can you believe this

is what it's become? Right? How awesome is that? So stick with us. And thank you for everyone that has stuck with us up to this point. I think this is we've we're over 40 episodes now. Yeah, this is really cool. And I don't get proud about these little milestones, really, because I feel like the goal is the goal. But I've always been someone that sucked at celebrating the little victories along the way. Before. He's kind

of a big deal. I think we did an episode one time and talked about how the average podcast gets about seven episodes in Yeah. And that's it. And I think if you get more than 20, you're in the top point oh, 1% of podcasts of all time, because people just give up on stuff like this. But there's nothing more stubborn than a codependent and an addict. So we ain't going anywhere. Forget that and come back and find me in 10 years doing the same thing. Stubborn as a coma.

So thank you, for everyone that stuck with us supported us, I see the likes, I see the mentions, I see the story shares, we see all that stuff. And we thank you all so much, that I just can't thank you enough. It's amazing. When something that we've written or something we put out in the world is helping other people like that was the goal here. And it's actually working. And it's just the greatest feeling in the world. Yeah. And not in a

selfish arrogant way. It's just so cool that people are getting help that we didn't have when we were going through exactly our experiences helping others. And I think it's so beautiful. Like if I had this stuff, whenever he when we were 10 years ago, I feel like I would have been way ahead in life. But this is how life worked out. And I'm grateful for every bit of it.

And if we had something like this, when we were going through it, I would have put these dudes on the wall like Kim Jong moon, there would have been like a picture of the great leaders on the wall. You know what I mean? Thank God, I don't have to feel alone and someone else gets it and I've got a voice that's talking about it. And I don't feel crazy, like they're in my head. This is a wonderful, you know, such a cool thing. So thank you for

everyone. That's, that's been there with us from day one if you're new. Thanks for being here. Glad you made it. Yeah. Looking forward to seeing what we can do with this. I think that's all we've got. So until next time, I am Matt. I'm painting and we'll see you