The person that berates you when they're drunk, and the person that's overly kind when they're sober is the same person. I think humans we love. We love binary concepts. We love to be able to categorize good and bad, right or wrong, yes or no. And so when it comes to sober versus drunk, we'd love to be able to categorize that. Oh, that's just him when he's drunk. That's him when he's sober. False, it is not true. That is the same person. That is one bucket of him. That is him.
That's who he is. The ups and the downs and everything that come with it. Welcome back, well, come back to another episode till the wheels fall off. Man. We didn't cover this last week. And I can't believe we didn't get to spend just a moment to thank you, the listener, you, the viewer, whether you're on YouTube, any podcast platform, thank you for being a listener. Thank you for being a viewer. Thank you for following along with us. We reached 100,000 downloads, which
is a milestone. big milestone. Yes. That was exciting. And the growth has been in the beginning. It's very slow. I think we got to 10,000, like near the end of last summer. Yeah. And then since then, seven months or so we've 10x that. Yeah. So the message is catching on. And I just, it's hard to describe what it feels like.
It's it's amazing to have people follow along with us and listen to us, and we get the great reviews and the communities popping in and but at the same time, it's really sad that there's so many people that are in need of this conversation, man. Yeah, it's just it's it's sad. But it's not nothing that a podcast gets 100,000 downloads. I think we covered the stats a
long time ago. Something like 95% of podcasts don't make it past and maybe it's 90% of podcasts don't make it past seven episodes or stats, and then out of those that are left that 10% I think only like I think like 90% don't make it
past 20 episodes. So if you get like 21 episodes are in the top 1% of podcasters ever Yeah, we're right about it. 100 episodes, but 100,000 downloads and just wanted to thank you all Yeah, I just wanted to thank you all like we when we started this thing, it was like let's have some cool conversations. Didn't know how who would listen just like our closest friends and family. And now it's been listened to on every continent but Antarctica. Yeah, still waiting for our first Antarctica
listener. But it's it's all over the place. It's it's worldwide. And it's amazing
to change the recovery world, and that's what we're doing and why we're here and we're getting closer and closer to it every day is so
cool. So thank you so much for for being a viewer for being a listener. You know, I think I first see us in not too distant future doing this full time. This is going to be what we do for a living our job is like having these cool conversations, guests and all kinds of stuff. We've got some awesome things planned for this year. We mentioned this the end of last year. We'll have more guests this year. Some cool conversations and bigger things
coming out. We've got the the ad that we filmed coming out pretty soon should give us some more exposure in different spaces. And I'm excited to see what that brings. So excited to see what that brings. We've also got some meetups scheduled this year. Not on the calendar yet. We are still working through some of
these days. Tentatively the month of June could include as many as four meetups not 100% sure one will be local to Texas from the area that we are in others across the country where we have the densest population of listeners and viewers. Be looking out for that check out
our social media accounts. You probably know what they are but it's at Tufo underscore couple TW fo underscore couple for more updates on those yes, we've also still got sweatshirts available we got merch we got tons of stickers got some sweatshirts left not too many available on
our website to fau.com. And then lastly here for our ads, the courses, the courses, the courses, we've got our miniature course, it is the first piece of the larger independently strong course pulled out as a sample, I guess it's to say it's an appetizer, but it's also
really good worksheet and like videos in there that are going to help you start your healing journey. Yeah,
relationship evaluation, you also get access to the teachable community. The courses are offered through teachables the platform we do this on and the full course is still out there available and helping people if you are ready, if you are tired of being stuck and you want an answer independently strong.com Check it out. We at least get a 75% discount with the code wheelies 75 that's released with an S 75 at checkout for 75% off for a limited time. It is a founders
round. And there will be an end to that discount at some point but not sure exactly how much longer it's gonna last. But that's all. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for listening for being part of this for your support. We see the messages in the DMS and the kind words and I cannot tell you how much that means to us. Truly. It's amazing. Thank you. Okay, as promised, we're going to further our conversation on overthinking Yeah,
so last week, we talks about overthinking basics, just in general, despite people who overthink, which is pretty common. And this one is going to be based on questions that we received within the community. I asked everybody to submit some questions on what they struggle with, with overthinking. And what I came to find this is why we split this up is that it's not necessarily overthinking that they're struggling with, it's a lot deeper than that. So
we're gonna get into it. We're going to answer some of the questions. There were so many I couldn't pull out all of them. So I pulled out the best ones that I could think of at the moment. The ones that made you go, Oh, yeah, yeah. And a lot of them were very similar, but these are the ones that I was like, okay, yeah, we can definitely touch on that. So
you said something interesting. earlier? Yeah, just a moment ago, that it's not just overthinking. It's not as simple as that. Yeah, I think that a lot of these conversations are taking very complex situations and problems, and they're distilling them down to terms like codependency or something like overthinking. But it's just not that simple. If it were that simple, the solution would be really easy and shows like this wouldn't exist. But it's not so simple. So we're gonna dig into
it. We're gonna go a step further than some of the normal vernacular around this stuff, which is just overthinking anxiety codependent. It's, it's so much more than that, man. And we've we've been saying this from the very beginning. It's, those words are nice, because they help people relate to what's going on. It helps you find communities of people who are going through similar situations. But I think that they're too broad and generic.
And I think the solutions they offer are ineffective, ineffective, simplest, nicest way I can put it. Yeah, no knock on anyone that has found hope or help through programs like Al Anon or Codependents Anonymous, or maybe work with a therapist on topics like codependency. It's just our opinion and our perspective and our experience. It's much deeper than that. Yeah. So let's get into some of this over thinking stuff as it pertains to an addicted
relationship. Yes. What are some of the questions you got? Alright, so
here's the first one. It's overthinking if the addiction is as bad as it seems. You want me to go on this? Yeah, I just thought that you had like notes, and you were gonna do I want to I don't even know why I'm asking you. I'm gonna have this chicken as we say, thank you. Okay, so here's the thing, if you're asking this question, yes, it is as bad as it seems, I feel like a addiction. Education is lacking. And we get in these relationships. And we think, oh, you know, it's not as bad as it
seems. Maybe it isn't as bad as it seems. Excuse me, because the people that you're speaking with are telling you Oh, it's not that bad. This is just normal, like it becomes normalized and minimized. And if you're asking this question, you are not overthinking that is, it's bad because it is it is as bad as it seems. If there's addiction involved, it is as bad as it seems. And that's just the reality of it. You
want to know how how we handle this from the other side of the coin from the addiction standpoint, let's hear it. So anytime you're, we're a treatment center I go with this good friend of mine is in recovery. And he's got this really funny but very obvious point that he makes. If at any point, you have Googled signs of alcoholism, or am I an alcoholic? There's a 99.9% chance that you are these normal people aren't googling these
sorts of things. If you on the conversely, on the other side of that if you're in a relationship with one of us, chances are it's absolutely as bad as it seems. Yeah. It's absolutely as bad as it seems like there are criteria that can be met for alcoholism. Yes, like the DSM five gives 11 criteria. Okay. And it is said that I think more than two of those is recommended or insinuated that you probably have a substance use disorder that I want to go through them all, but I don't want to go
through those. But from the other side of this. It's not about that. If you're overthinking that's as bad as it seems. It's it's as bad as it
seems. Yes. And here's the thing, too, it's progressive. Yes, it is. So if they are not getting help at the moment, it may not seem that bad at at the very beginning, but it is going to get worse. It almost always gets worse. I don't like using absolutes, but this is the truth. If there's no change or any type of recovery happening, it is going to get worse. So yes, it it may not be as bad as it seems in the moment, but it will be eventually.
The book Alcoholics Anonymous book I'm trying to recall. I don't have it here in front of me, but I'm almost positive that it does use an absolute when it comes to the progressive nature of alcoholism and addiction. It says that it gets worse. No, never better over time.
Okay, no, that's okay. I can be using these absolutes in this
situation I experienced personally in over a decade of this. I've never seen it get better. Okay.
Yeah. And that's what I mean, too, because I've seen it in all sorts of ways too. And if there's no help if there's no you know, progress, it's just going to To get worse,
yeah. So if you're having the thoughts already, and likely these thoughts came from a very sound place, right? So you identified some problematic behaviors. But I think that we all feel we're all guilty of this. We all feel like it would be different in reality. What I mean by that is, like, let's say, you, you're an alcoholic. Like for me, I'm an alcoholic.
It's so easy. And a lot of us get stuck in this trap where you can compare out and say, but I haven't I haven't lost my license yet, or I haven't lost my family yet. It's not that bad. Yeah, it's just not that bad, right? It's not that bad. Yes, yes, it will get to that point, you've identified some of the early symptoms, which is good. It's like you've seen a foundation repair commercial, like, Hey, have you noticed that your doors are sticking or something like these weird
things are happening? Well, these are signs of a larger problem that's going to get worse over time. It's important, it's important to recognize these early symptoms. And to say, Yeah, but a lot of people are gonna look at this and say, Well, I just always assumed or I've looked out, and I watch movies, and you see how hopeless addiction can be. And I just not like the movies. Yes, it's whatever that is. It's not what I'm going through. But it is it is, but it is, this is what it
feels like. Yes. This is what it's like, for sure. It's just the tip of the iceberg, though. It gets worse. Yeah. Yeah. So you're not overthinking you're not overthinking this.
So I'm gonna go the second one. How can you tell if it's overthinking or gut instinct? This is good. This question was brought up a lot. And I've had this question and been be it's been brought up a lot even throughout this whole Tufo experience, and I haven't really touched on it too much. But your gut instinct is an immediate response, your body is going to feel a warmth, a punch, a, we all know what it feels like. It's almost a trigger, you know, you're feeling this like,
it's a sensation. If you're overthinking something that's mental, and it's not necessarily a feeling that's overpowering. It's just a thought process that's going on over and over again in your head. But it doesn't, you know, you can make yourself sick, though, you can make yourself have that gut feeling, if you think about it over and over and over and over again. But the gut instinct that is your initial reaction, and it's a feeling that you have, yeah,
good instincts are powerful. Yeah. I was reading a lot about this, this this last week. And it talks about how the subconscious mind has a way of communicating to our bodies when we recognize something that's out of place. And we often refer to these things as gut instincts, or just instincts or intuition. Your brain has done billions and billions of calculations on this problem underneath the surface without
you even realizing it. And when the moment comes that you've noticed something, it will let you know. And we like you mentioned, we all know that feeling like when you've identified like, ooh, something's not right with this. It could be a red flag that you recognize it could be anything. Let's say that you've got someone in your family. And you're just not comfortable with your kids around them. You're not 100% sure why. But you know,
something's not right. In those moments when it comes up, you will know. You will know your body will tell you. No, this isn't right. Right. But then we what we'll do is we second guess it? Yes. And we take it we try to rationalize then it turns into overthinking then it Yes, exactly. Oh, that was good. Yeah. And, like anxiety and gut instincts are similar, but they're different. And you mentioned it like a gut feeling is not an anxious type of feeling. It's an AHA type of
feeling. Yes. Yeah. So much different. From the way it feels right. It doesn't feel scary. It feels very confident. Sometimes it can feel a little bit jarring because you're like, Ooh, I just recognize something like, this is a hard thing to talk about. Like I just recognize that there's a problem here. But it's the anxiety is totally different. We all know what anxiety feels like. Sometimes it's just ambient, it just hangs in the air and it just wears on
us. But it can be chronic, where it's happening all day every day. That is not the same as that initial aha moment that you have from a gut instinct. wheelies I've never met one that didn't have strong intuition, strong gut instincts. A lot of our listeners are mothers or women and I believe that women have really really good Oh, yeah, their instincts and I don't have any data to support this. I'm sure someone's done it, but it's just been my experience that it's always on.
It's always on the money.
Yeah. And our our instincts come up based on patterns of behavior that have happened throughout our life and relationships. Yes, it's about a pattern so you're not overthinking things like are we are supposed to pick up on patterns in our lives to protect ourselves and that's what your gut instinct is doing. It is picking up on a pattern and telling you Oh, something's not right here. We need to focus Some survival exactly
like the mind is doing those calculations, and it's keeping score and it's keeping tabs. And it's remembering the patterns. It will remind you in sometimes subtle ways. It's not always like top of mind, like very front of your brain, like I'm conscious of what's happening. It starts as a little Aha, feeling like, Ooh, let's listen to that. What was that about? I just recognize something that was weird. And it's really tough to begin to trust yourself again, which is, like our course aims to
accomplish. Like, the the journey of empowerment is so powerful, because it's about getting to, like, who am I again, like, trusting myself again, being able to trust when I have a thought that there's it's backed from a from a place of reason and factual information, calculations that are done by my brain, not by what some lunatic is telling me right is right or wrong? Yeah.
So I was gonna say, that's the reason you feel like you can't trust your gut instinct is because you're with somebody who's telling you you're wrong all the time. And that will make anybody question themselves.
Yeah, pattern recognition is huge. And the relationship evaluation in the beginning, that first part of the course that we've released. Yeah, the the mini course, is a pattern recognition exercise. Yes, it is. That is the point of it. Let's recognize some patterns. Let's go through and let's see it. This happens subconsciously, most of the time, but to actually do the work and practice pen to paper, put it on
paper, write it out. It's undeniable at this point, like you're looking at the patterns, patterns are huge patterns tell the story. You got to pay attention to him? Yes, you do. Alright, so
the next question is, is being a single parent easier than feeling like one in a marriage? That's a great question. Yeah. And this is so people, somebody asked this question, because they feel like they were overthinking it. And I from experience, obviously, I haven't been a single parent, you felt like but I have felt like one. And it was more difficult to parent, when Matt was around and not, like engaged, like if you were sitting on the couch or just not even paying attention or
whatever. And I'm over here doing stuff. That was probably more difficult than me being a single parent while he was away at treatment. Like it was easier when you were gone. It was easier. I had a weight lifted off of my shoulders, you know, I did have help. Obviously, it was with my mom and stuff. But it was still easier that you weren't around with that added layer of drama.
Yeah, that's a great way to put it. So like, like you mentioned, we honestly have never been single parents, either one of us like truly a single parent, right? We split up from one another with like visitation rights and all that stuff. So I took to the internet, and I explored message boards, different forums, I read several articles, probably a dozen in total from people that have done this, though, that have left a bad situation for one reason or another. It wasn't
always addiction. It could have been physical abuse, it could have been just relationship issues. How do they refer to that in divorces irreconcilable and reconcile II wreck? I'm done. Yeah, differences. Let me reconcile. They, they, they you know, they tell their stories. And I read through and every single one said that it is easier to be a single parent than it was to feel like one Yeah. Because the outcome is the same, you still have the same workload, you still have the
same amount of stress. For many of them, they still had the same financial problems, many of them, not all of them. But all those problems. Were still there. So setters paribus, all things equal, that stuff is going to be there. So net, it was easier to deal with someone who wasn't around causing more grief, resentment and anxiety from not doing their job, or yelling at you or screaming at you and causing fights while you were trying to get all this stuff done than it was just
doing it on your own. Yeah.
And also a lot of people will say that they're like parenting their spouse anyway. So you're just going to lose a kid
on more than one occasion. Called me your third child? Yes.
I think I think women in general do that.
Yeah, but so obviously not from a place of experience, but from relaying the experiences of others. Yes. Many do report that it is much easier, although painful in different ways, much easier on a day to day basis, not dealing with that, right? The person who is gaslighting you or another person, another thing you really have to worry about, and that affects the immediate safety of your children and you all those things disappear. Yeah.
And like you said, the resentment because you have a lot of resentment. Oh, yeah. Personally, I eat you up and it will go into your children and it sucks. It sucks. I know that feeling. Yeah. So
you can remove those pieces of it. Yeah. And it becomes easier on like, net easier, right. Okay.
The next one is do I have the ability to leave due to financial reasons. So this person is overthinking that, which I think that this is probably very common across the board. But I know there are solutions to that. You know, we We've met a lot of people who have had to leave even when they were not financially able or capable of doing so. But there were solutions to it,
there are solutions. And this is a really, really tough one. And this is this is a practical reason that a lot of people stay in relationships. I don't want to get too far off in the weeds here. But a lot of these relationships stay together for this reason where it is, I practically cannot pick up my stuff and my kids and leave. Because I haven't worked in however many years, I don't have a degree or work experience, I'm not going to be able to get a job support myself
and my children. And so the alternative is I will just stay and try to find a way to make this work. But it never that thought never leaves you I think once you come to that place, it never quite leaves you. So you start to think of okay, so how can I figure this out? If you're in our community, if you're not already in there to fill community, there are many people that have figured a way out of this. It starts small, though, yeah, very small. Yes, this
is where that like one day at a time really can't apply, because you want all the answers to be able to fix it. But sometimes you just have to take that first step and get help and support. And there are people in there who can help you with that to figure out what you need to do to get there. Think
of it from a more common life experience. Let's say that you have a job that you absolutely hate, but it pays you well. A lot of Americans and people around the world find themselves in this, this world to myself included.
You see my face where you're
working a job and you've sort of got like these golden handcuffs where it pays well, you like the lifestyle that comes with it, but you're absolutely miserable. It's like, well, how much is it worth it? And you can find a million ways to make yourself comfortable and happy and overtime, but I find that they all have an expiration date. And it will ultimately always go back to that place. So for us, it's come to this place, it's like could we could we live on much less and be happier?
Yes. Is that worth it? It is now at one point, I could say it wasn't at one point I was more than willing to accept the bad for the perceived good, which was income. It was a certain number. And it's like Okay, so we're happy here. I can deal with anything that catches up. I think that I always thought there'd be a number in I think we all feel this way. What we thought there'd be a number. It's like, if I could just make that number. I'll be happy.
False. But no one's gonna believe it until you do it yourself. Yeah, like when you more kids. Think about when you're graduating high school is like if I could find a job that paid me 50k A year, dude, I'd be sad. I'd be sad. But then you become an adult and realize how expensive adulting is. And it's like, that's not a lot. Yeah. So then you what do you do just increase the number. And each time you hit those numbers, you find yourself equally miserable,
if not more miserable. There are ways out you can do practical things like you can get side hustles you can go back to school, you can set aside a savings account, you can you know, reach out to friends and family for help. Like there are there are options, there are things you can do. But this is not a problem that is solved today or tomorrow or the next day or the next day. Yeah, you can find yourself in these types of situations for many, many years, actually, until you're
able to finally get out. It's time plus pain equals change, right? Kind of we talked about that a lot. Eventually, you'll get in enough pain where a longer period of time, you will just make the change and you won't. You won't even think twice.
It'll it'll be easier actually to just do it because you're like this is gonna be so much better than what I've been dealing with. That is a process. Oh, yeah. It does not happen overnight. You can even write it down
and be like, Oh, that makes total sense and still not be ready to do it. Yeah, that's okay. That's totally fine. Absolutely.
All right. The next one is this one.
This one pisses you off?
This one gets under my skin? Did I sign up for this? There were red flags? No, you did not sign up for this. You did not sign up for this. Everybody's gonna find red flags. Okay. But like I said, there's not enough education on addiction and alcoholism, and stuff where we don't realize the impact it's going to have on us in the future. You didn't not sign up for this. You didn't pick a partner like this. Like none of us would have signed up for this. I would not have
signed up for this life. And I had so many red flags. If you take the course we talk about all of the red flags that I saw, but I didn't like walking red. Oh my god, he was a walking red flag. I like seriously there were so many. I mean, sometimes I do beat myself up because I'm like, Oh my God, why did I not see it? But oh my gosh, Matt was so good at what he did. And it's true. Like addicts are really really good at that charm at that. So keeping you in like it's it will make you feel
crazy. But no, you did not sign up for this. Don't ever think once you know, like twice that you signed up for this. Don't think that? Yeah.
When we're dating. When we get into relationships, we put our best foot forward. Like we try to show people the best parts of ourselves or not. Going like it's not. It's not like, like there are companies that especially like car companies like we are going to treat you right, we're going to give you a CARFAX, we're going to show you where this car has been all the issues with it upfront, we'll sell you a warranty on it. Like they want to make they want to be like, fully disclose
everything. In dating, we don't play that game. Rarely. We don't show up in the first month and tell you everything that's wrong with us under the hood. And we don't tell you about the squeaky wheel that comes up only when it's wet outside. We don't we don't tell you about like the cup holder that broken. We just glued it back together. Like we don't we're not disclosing these
sorts of things. And like you mentioned, there's not enough education around the progressive nature of addiction, and what these relationships can look like at some point. So does anyone sign up for it? Arguably, I never signed up to be an addict either. So it's not fair to say anyone signed up for this. Yeah, because I didn't sign up for it. And you didn't sign up for it. But it happened.
Here we are. But there's a lot of shame that comes with these like types of relationships, especially from people who are either still in it. Like in they're really arrogant about it. Like a lot of addicts will do this, or people who have never been in it and they're just like, women haters. I see a lot of men that come in like, you should know better. They can
Why would you even in a relationship with an addict. They come after me all the time on Tik Tok. And it just I know, kind of cracks me up. It's always dudes. But also I had somebody told me it told me before and I'll never forget it like you picked him basically, like, I have to deal with it. And I picked him and I'm like,
I did, but I didn't pick this life. Thinks did not represent himself.
Yeah. And another thing is a lot of people who are in active addiction, and if they if they come from toxic families, they do not recognize how toxic the situation or the dynamics are. So you're not going to get into this relationship and think and they say, oh, yeah, you know, my family is just like, so toxic. And all of this, and I you know, this is this runs in my family, blah, blah, blah, you just don't talk about that
stuff. And you don't think of it just being a red flag or like, oh, well, maybe they do talk about it. And then you think, Oh, well, then maybe we can I can help them. Or maybe I can, you know, be a good influence on him or something like that. And that's just not how it works.
Yeah, like we talked about the Michelangelo phenomenon. Remember that we're over time, we sort of mold our partners to be the ideal partner that we've always wanted. And that happens bilaterally happens. Both people do this over time to where you become each other's ideal partners, you sort of mold each other over time. Yeah, that happens in relationships all the time. And very common talk to a couple has been together for 60
years. Ask them what they're like today versus what they were like when they got together. Very, very, very different people. Yeah, we become softer over time more willing to bend our egos not as strong. We understand what's important, what's not. I think that so many people can beat themselves up for not recognizing there's red flags. When it comes to overthinking you can sit there and like Gosh, second guess yourself to death. I should have
seen this. I should have seen this I should not necessarily. It's a progressive thing. You're not going to catch it in a position where it's really obvious. What if you met your partner, let's say that, okay, your partner is really bad right? Now, let's say they've been to treatment three or four times. If you met them right now today in that state, I think you'd be able to identify that
you would know. But early on, especially when we start dating in our 20s and whatnot, it hasn't gotten that bad yet, generally presents itself a little bit later. The stresses of life get worse, it becomes more obvious and harder to hide. At certain time in life. It's totally acceptable and normal to drink and do drugs every once in a while. Like, I'm not saying it's okay. But I'm saying it's, you can get away with it. No one's gonna think twice about it. Yeah.
But a lot of people experiment with that. A
lot of people don't end up addicts either. So it's not fair to just to look at those and say, You should have seen the red flags. Like dude, your husband is doing the same thing. Right? And he's fine. Like, what do you mean, look at me,
I partied. Yeah, I mean, I didn't go nearly as hard as you. When it came to things. Like I was always a supervisor. But like I was able to grow out of it. I was I was a supervisor for y'all a little parties, remember? Yeah. It was in our early 20s Whenever people were experimenting, you know, it's like, you don't think about that. And so no, you did not sign up for this. No, man.
Like, like my best friends of my group. I've I've had the same like core group of friends since I was like six or seven years old. Yeah, we all party together. And I'm not implicating anyone. All right, so I can't confirm or deny that they participated in everything with me. But I will say I'm the only one that ended up an addict. And we all had the same quote unquote, red flags, because we all ran together and
did the same things. So it's not fair to say there were red flags or for you to beat yourself up and say why didn't they recognize those and then overthink that stuff? Yeah, not right. Now. Give yourself a break. It's
okay. It's alright.
We get worse over time. It's not your fault. Yeah.
All right. So is sober husband the true version or is drunk version. I know that this question and people overthink this all the time. Um, I'm gonna
say neither. What do you mean by neither, neither one of them is the true version of who you married, your sober husband is going to be the person who's given you all the highs, and it's going to be high high, it's going to be like, special love bombing, all the good stuff, everything that you hold on, it's the potential drunk version is going to be the total opposite of that, who's going to
be the lowest of lows? If they were truly sober, or like, working on personal development and doing what they're supposed to be doing? They would be in between that. So you're not getting their true colors? During sober period or drunk period? Yeah. Does that make sense? Like, like, do you agree with that? I do. We didn't discuss this question very much. So I didn't know
I absolutely agree with this. This is a question that I get a lot. A lot.
A lot of people say we're agreeable. So I'm just asking, is there something that this is, was I
hope we're agreeable to some point? You know, we have a show about this and the relationship that works. I think that we have to be agreeable at some point. But no, I agree with you here. What you're seeing our highlight reels and disaster reels. That's what you're basically seeing whenever you're with an addict or an alcoholic and active use, you're seeing someone at their worst, and you're seeing them performatively at their best performatively it's this
performance that we put on. A lot of times I felt a lot of guilt, and sometimes shame for the ways that I'd acted. And I would recognize it, I could listen to you and your tears and so upset telling me of all this crap that I've done that it hurts you. And I feel that man, I feel horrible. So I need to make up for that. I need to make up for it syndrome kicks in. And then we become this performative like caricature of husband. Oh,
yeah, like, Oh, I'm gonna read to the baby. I'll do bath time tonight. I'll make sure she goes to sleep. I'm going to feed her. I'll stay up all night. So you can sleep. Yes, all of these things happened. And that's why you start questioning a lot of things because of those highs and you're like, oh, wow, maybe it isn't that bad. But it's performative. Like you said,
it's performance in a lot of ways. We want to be better a lot of us want to be better. A lot of us know deep, deep deep down that we've, we're screwed. And we've got to be better. Sometimes I think we can take this like fake it till you make it sort of idea. And you know what, I'll just let me just move past that stuff. I know what I need to be let me just be that person. But you're not that person. You're acting like that person. That's not really who
you are. So when people say, I can't tell if what he says when he drunk? What if he actually means these things to the people actually mean the things they say when they're drunk? Whenever he's really sweet. Is this the real him? Or is this just fake? You don't know what to think. You're looking at who they are. This is who they are. Yes. So when you say neither? I agree with that, like the real. themselves. Yeah, it's both. That's, that's the same person. Let's just get get that out of
the way. That's the same person, the person that berates you when they're drunk. And the person that's overly kind when they're sober is the same person. I think humans we love. We love binary concepts. We love to be able to categorize good and bad, right or wrong, yes or no. And so when it comes to sober versus drunk, we'd love to be able to categorize that, oh, that's just him when he's drunk. That's him when he's sober, false, it is not true. That is the same person that is one bucket of
him. That is him. That's who he is. The ups and the downs and everything that come with it. I think that we, like a lot of people do this. And it's, it's funny, and I don't think it's unhelpful by any means. But they'll, they'll give the addicted person a name, like something. And it's hilarious. And it's true, because it feels like you're dealing with a completely different person. But it's not the same as something like this is so to disassociative identity disorder, which is like multiple
personality disorder. What was the name of that movie? Guy, I can't remember, there's a movie recently, where a guy had like four or five personalities. And at any given point, he could be any of them. It's not like that. It's not like that. It's not like I am a completely different person with my own set of values and my own background, in my own past experiences that never actually happened, when I'm sober versus when I'm drunk. I'm
the same person, right? So it's not a disassociation from your personality, that is your personality. The worst parts of it are often brought out when you're drunk. And when you're using, you get to see those they're on display for all to see. A lot of them aren't even intentional and intentional. It's just stuff that sort of
happens. And when we're sober, we're oftentimes trying to make up for those things or at times, you can just be like a shadow of your authentic self, but the real person has yet to be seen, this person will come out at some point later. It's not going to be as good or as bad as those ups and downs that you see in active addiction. It's somewhere in between, like you mentioned, absolutely. Normal people kind of hover around the mean around
the middle. Yeah, they're not on the on the The tail ends of the distribution curve where it's super high, super low. We're somewhere in between. So you don't know what this person looks like yet most likely for us, let's just talk about what it was like for us. So when I was inactive us, I was completely detached. I was really, really selfish. I was complete aihole I had zero to no empathy for you. No validation, no compassion. That was like the worst of me. Right? Yeah. Liar.
That whole bit. The best of me when I was an act of addiction was, let's be in all the Facebook photos. Let's appear to be the great dad. Let's take the daughter to the store when she's little bitty and show off. But how good of a dad I am. Oh, I
got her to sleep tonight.
I did all these things. Let me let me bring home dinner tonight. Let me do all this stuff. How long did that stuff last?
Not long. It wasn't
consistent. I even do it for a week. I don't remember. No. Oh, no. So it was short lived? Yes.
And I remember them. And that's what's crazy is like I actually remember those specific times. It wasn't consistent short bursts
of performative empathy and performative compassion and performative look at me how great of a dad I am, how great of a husband, I am. Trying to be that person in so many ways, but also trying to make up for the wrongs that I had done. That's not authenticity. That's not the real me, the real me is much more balanced. Now in between, I have a lot less of the really bad stuff. And I have more of
the good stuff. So I would say on the on the whole it's much more like the person that was performing, but not nearly as exaggerated. Right. You know, and I have far fewer like high high highs, like how often do I like just randomly go get flowers and bring them home? Their handout? What do you mean? Yeah, I do. It's just less often. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, order or order flowers and haven't sent up here with the funny note, I still do that. Every few months or so. Maybe a couple times a year?
Yes. But during active addiction, you did it? Oh, it was like my god. It was like, whenever you were angry, it was a way for you to like, look what I did for
you. When I was doing like, when I were I would do dishes and stuff back then how often did I do that? Oh, gosh, once every how often? I don't even I can't even I can't even now it's much more stable. Right? It's more consistent consistency. It's about consistency, which
it's not all the time, which is fine. And it's not like going balls to the wall,
you know, being good. It's just normal. It's
just normal. And then like, you'll say, Okay, I can't, I can't, I can't parent right now, I kind of need to, you know, detach for a little bit. And that's okay. Like, you can tell me those things. And it's not all the time. And I can do the same thing for you. Like, I just need a break. So can you help me out here?
It's just balance. Like, we've talked about this before. I'm gonna spend too much more time here, but you're gonna get a new person and the relationship. Yeah, they will be very familiar. It will almost be like a cousin of your original husband. Like, like, you can tell they're sort of related, but they're different here. It's different. But we got to know each other in a totally new way a lot. A lot of it was just better, like on the whole net
just gains and wins. But a lot of the other stuff that came with it, like the like I had to come to terms the fact that like, I'm actually a really emotional person, I wasn't as stoic as I'd like to think I was. I'm hyper emotional a lot of time I get really like, I have to try and cry not cry commercials and movies. All the time, man. Like daily, I feel this stuff that I just hit forever, like a weird. There's a lot of stuff like that, that for
you that you get now. And it's like, well, I guess that's part of it, too. So there are some parts I guess, I guess. I don't know, depending on who you are. Some may perceive that as negative. I don't. But some may. Some may be like, I'm not interested in the guy that cries Well, we have emotions, too. You know, you'll get some of that comes with it. You'll get sweet. You're gonna get a totally new person, a new person, which is should be an exciting thing. You don't want back the old person
you don't know. And we've talked about that before, too. Yeah, and everything else is like a highlight reel. You don't want that necessarily either. Right? Like that's not sustainable. No, you know, like, I know, I do know some dads and husbands that make us all look bad. Like just some Mike. Dude, these guys are just rock stars. Like they're I don't know how to keep it up like that though, man. Like, how does anyone right? Like, how do
the Rockstar moms do it? I know I'm talking about Yeah, I think some people are just wired that way. But be in more we don't see in my experience. That's a very, very, very small slice of the pie. Yeah, that are able to maintain that level of energy and consistency all the time. Right. They make us all feel bad. Yeah, they exist, but it's not common. Right. You're probably not going to get back. Super like man.
Oh my gosh.
Okay. All right. So the next question is how do you recondition yourself to not overthink and feel normal after so much trauma? So I'm assuming this question is coming after active addiction. It's not so high ticket. Well, I I
I took this as someone who's in it currently wanting to know what they can look forward to One day. Most people want answers for the future. Okay,
but it's really hard to not overthink and to feel normal. If you're still having trauma. Yes, in your relationship, if there's still active addiction going on, there's still going to be patterns of behavior. That's not. That's that hasn't changed. And you cannot change your mindset to stop overthinking to feel normal. If you're still in it, that's just the truth.
Yeah, this should be a daily reminder for us. Let's let's get it over with here real quick. Sobriety does not fix everything. Sobriety does not fix much of anything by itself. Sobriety only sets the stage for growth in the future. Yes, that's all it does. And that growth takes place over the course of years, years, years, years, years, years. It does not
happen right away. And I can only imagine what it feels like to be in like your shoes and think to yourself, like, am I ever going to not be able to feel this way? Again? Yes, but only if they're sobriety. So like you said, if someone's still in it, all bets are off? Absolutely not. It's gonna continue you'll have good moments, bad moments, but more bad than good. Yeah.
And if this is how, if this question is happening, if like your partner is in recovery, or whatnot, or maybe you're out of the relationship, and you feel like you still overthink, it's gonna take time healing, you know, you've got to do a lot of self work to help yourself feel normal again, like I still have things that pop up. I don't think no one has ever fully healed like, this is where your brain like this, this stuff imprints on you, like you've said before? So how
did you recondition yourself to not do it? For
me, like, we did that episode on how I found myself again, and there's a lot of good information in there. Yeah. So you know, going to therapy and mindfulness meditation, meditation was huge for me. doing like, looking at my cognitive distortions, my self awareness, spirituality, that kind of stuff. Yeah,
yeah, like, man, like one of the one of the things we sought out to do was to help people find themselves again and begin to trust themselves again, and be able to identify and then act on their intuition again. And that's sort of what's going on here. Like how do you conditioned yourself to not overthink? First of all, you can't be in the situation that got you sick, that has to stop whether they stop or you've stopped participating in one of
the two have to happen. You're not just going to fix this magically, while they're still in it. That will be I would say, impossible. Just go and say impossible. But therapy, therapy therapy. Yeah, helps a ton. Yep. And it takes a long period of time to it does. It takes time. It takes time. Like we've we've
talked about this. So Dr. Taylor, our good friend, and also our partner, and independently strong, I've asked him like, if all things are going well, someone's showing up to their appointments on a regular basis. How long does it take to have breakthroughs? And he's like, I mean, generally, about a year
yeah, I was gonna say six months to a year, a year, that first year is rough. That's
that's like per breakthrough. Yeah, you might have one a year you might have another one, maybe six months later, and then another one six months after that, but it's slow.
I had a breakthrough last like, few months, whenever you like, really started acknowledging my my pain and taking accountability and that like that was another level. Yeah, I it was another layer of my healing that came apart. So yeah, it's gonna take time there is no like solution to this except for just working on yourself. And making sure you're not being you know, traumatized over and
over. Yeah. So how do you recondition yourself? Ricky? I think validation is so important in the healing process. Yeah. So you can self validate all you want. That's no different than like shouting affirmations in the mirror. Affirmations are helpful if you have evidence in your life to support those things. But you can't say I'm an astronaut every morning. If you're not an astronaut. Yeah, it's never going to work. You can say these things. It doesn't
make them true. I think that external validation is really where we can begin to heal. And therapy is a great place to do that. Groups like the community
are a great place to do that. I think that's the benefit of a 12 step community like Al Anon, I think that if it while I, while I disagree with some of the semantics and the things that go on there, I think from a validation standpoint, I think it is validating to just see other people who are going through it and that's validating just the community in itself.
Yeah, yeah. And you used to say, you know, you don't need validation, you just need to do what you want. Circle. Circle for a long time until you realized no, man I I'm gonna become my best once I feel somewhat validated by who I can
do a lot of good work on my own, but to really, really get there and feel it, it came from other people. Yeah, it did.
I mean, that's just Near experience. Yeah. Okay, so the next one is when is the other shoe going to drop? So based on overthinking, I know that every, like so many people struggle with this, but all that is is a like trauma response. It's another way of you recognizing the patterns, and it's only, you know, common, or it only makes sense that you are going to overthink if the other shoe is gonna drop.
I agree. 1,000%. Like, I think, if you're asking the question, when is the other shoe going to drop? I would ask some questions, I would say okay, well, what's different about this time? If your answer is nothing, the other shoe is going
to drop very soon? If your answer is, well, they went to treatment for 30 days, they went to a sober living for 90 days, they're in counseling, they're working a program of some kind, they're going to a ton of meetings, I would say, proceed with cautious optimism that shoe may never drop. But it could. But the likelihood is much, much, much, much lower than someone who's doing next to nothing. So the other shoe is going to drop based on the degree to which they are making real changes.
Yeah, and I'll say like, you know, in our experience, I didn't stress too much over the substances, obviously, like I didn't look for your substances, I wasn't totally concerned that you were going to relapse. That wasn't part of our story, because I always based our experience on behaviors. And I think that since my my mind was shifted that way. It was easier for me not to stress over if you were going to relapse, because it was all about behaviors.
Yeah, I was like, I don't care if you use I don't care if you do that stuff, as long as you don't treat me like crap. I mean, I cared obviously, obviously, the two obviously, they do go hand in hand, but I'm just saying I didn't focus on that very much at all.
Yeah, like you weren't so much concerned with Oh, my God, what if he drives by a liquor store? Yeah, that's it's going to happen, or Oh, my God, he's going out with friends from work, and they're going to a big dinner, and there's going to be alcohol there. But you weren't so much concerned about those things. But you also had someone who was working in it. I know a lot of people who aren't. And I think that you're right to wonder when the other shoe is going to drop. That's not
anxiety. That's pattern recognition. And like you mentioned, a trauma response. This is the response to the typical stimulus, which is them not doing anything expecting something to be different this time. Your right to be call it anxiety, I would say it's pattern recognition. That's a gut instinct, you know, something's going to happen. Why wouldn't it? Right? What's what's different about this? Nothing.
All right, the next one is worrying about the drinking while they're out or when I'm not home, kind of along the same lines. Yeah. And it's almost like you want to this is almost kind of wanting to control the situation, which, obviously, you want to control the situation, because you know, what happens whenever you feel like you don't control the situation? Yeah. So I mean, it really is similar to what we said before.
Yeah, this is a big one. For a lot of people. It's the fear that they are not taking the recoveries recovery seriously enough to prevent relapses, or the slips that come up whenever they're in the situations that they're probably not ready for. It's a scary thing to do to kind of go hands off. It's like, I mean, this is a horrible thing. But this is true of having children today, and 2024, like sending your kids
to school. Like there's always going to be some level of anxiety associated with that, because you're just not safe anymore. There's always going to be some level of anxiety problem maybe for you about me getting injured, and the prospect of me being in a lot of pain and being around pills or something like that. You know, yes.
But I'm not going to address that until it happens. I can't I know myself, I don't want to over do it. So I do kind of stop my overthinking with that.
Yeah, and I totally understand why spouses and partners, yeah, want to control the scene, like I get it. The only time that your safety is even somewhat guaranteed and your relationship your emotional safety is when you are managing this thing like crazy when you're really putting a lot of effort in to make sure that this person is doing what they're supposed to be doing. Right, because otherwise it doesn't happen. But that is not sustainable. No.
And most of the time it doesn't it they're still gonna do what they want to do. Anyway,
we get really creative, don't we? Yeah, yeah, you gotta
find ways it doesn't even matter. No, you can drug tested. Yeah, you do all of those things. But if they want to find a way to do it, they're gonna do it. So you're just exhausting yourself.
Like I've told addicts before. Like if you put 10% of the effort into staying sober, and being a better person as you did get in high A, you would win a Nobel Peace Prize. Yeah, within five years of getting sober. We put so much effort into deceiving others. It's just crazy. Crazy.
All right. The next one is overthinking the tone of his voice. Did he intend to sound mean or dismissive? Or am I hearings, some thing that's not there. Go. No, you go ahead on this one.
This is this is an interesting one. micro expressions are something that couples oftentimes pick up on the tone of the voice, the look in your eyes. We see these things, but we're not always cognizant that we're doing it like I don't I don't have this awareness. I don't Yeah, I don't realize what you always think I roll my eyes. And I'm not rolling my eyes. I don't even know how to do that. But you're like you're being dismissive. You're rolling your eyes. It's a micro expression you can see.
Right? So are they? Are you overthinking the tone of their voice? Okay, first of all, I'm gonna tell you like, as guys, we're not thinking too hard about this stuff. Yeah, like
your simple creatures steep down. For the most part, right? For the most part, I
would say that, like, I'm not going to try in a calculated way to throw in a passive aggressive dig. I'm just not going to do that. If I have a problem. Most of time, I'm just gonna say I have a problem with something, or bringing up to intend to sound mean or dismissive. So this is one intention comes into play. I don't think that most addicts intend to do much of anything. I don't think that we intend to hurt anybody. I don't think that we intend to become addicts in
the first place. I don't think that we intend on lying to anyone. When we get up in the morning. It just becomes a survival mechanism in order to keep the addiction going. Right. So did they intend to do it? Not necessarily. Does that mean to make it okay? No, not really. But here's a funny story. I'm noticed person in recovery, and he came home. He's been sober for six months now doing really, really well. Super proud of him and his wife doing really well. He came home, and he has a male
version of resting bitchface. So what does that resting bitchface we'll call it resting bitchface. So he has resting bitchface. So he comes home, and she's really quiet. She's like, I thought that you were mad or something. He's like, No, I'm fine. But he understands why this is
happening. And like he did a really awesome job about talking through it because she sees that microexpression that dismissiveness the look on his face, attributes it to his past behaviors of being angry mean dismissive, and validating all those things. They just had a conversation about it and laughed about it a little bit, but also understood that he needs to be more aware of this. Yeah. And then now that there's sobriety in the home, they can
talk about it. She can say from now on, I don't know if they're actually going to do this, but encourage it. Hey, the look on your face sort of tells me that you're bothered Is everything okay? And then he could turn around and say either yes or no, over time having these conversations over and over and over again, is going to help that person reestablish what the norms are in your expressions in the relationship. And everything else. I'm let this dog out real quick, okay.
Okay. Yeah, that was good. All right. Well, I'm
gonna go on to this next one. Is it better to stay because leaving will make the addiction worse?
Is it better to stay? Because leaving will make the addiction worse? Man, that's a million dollar question. Yeah,
because you don't We don't really know. You know, it goes, it can go. It can go both ways. It can go many ways, like sometimes leaving saves life. Sometimes it makes it worse for a time frame. Like we've heard people where addiction was ramped up for like six months until they hit their rock bottom. After they left. They realized, oh, wow, you know, I really need to do something about it.
And full disclosure, some people, they do get worse than ever. And some Yes, some loser lives.
Yes. Yes. Like that's that's the reality of it. But as easy as I mean, as hard as it is to say this, like it's not your responsibility to make sure their addiction is. It's not yours. It's not yours to hold. It's not yours to carry. Yeah, I've
got personal experience with this. I have people that I love in addiction that have tried to hurt themselves. I have worked with people and known them intimately personally that have killed themselves. So I've seen it. I've seen how this unfolds. I've also seen people who had someone leave and they got sober and they're happy today. So I've seen all three, I've seen all three, I've seen people get worse, I've seen people get better, I've seen
people in their life. Here's what I know about addiction is that it is progressive in nature. And that unless there is a significant intervention of some kind, I don't mean like intervention, like let's all sit down to how much we love them. I mean, on the part of the addicted person to make significant changes. It will get worse over time, not better. Here's what I asked people do you want to do you want to read about in the paper or do you want a front row seat? That's
what it boils down to? Yeah. Do you want to front row seat to watch how this unfolds? Do you want to be part of it as it's happening? Because it's going to happen one way or another. Now, could it accelerate whenever you leave? It could, it could. But you'll read about it in the paper, you won't be there. In the experience of it all, you have little to no effect on whether or not this person actually gets sober, to actually
do the work. You cannot take them to a meeting and make them read the book and make them call a sponsor and make them work the steps or do anything like that you can't make them go to therapy, you can't sit there and make sure that they're listening and processing what the therapist is saying, or put that stuff into practice. You can't do a forum, right? So you're sort of a prisoner of what their actions might be. But I can guarantee you that they're going to do what they're going to do.
This has been proven, more times than I can count with my own experience and the experience of other people that I've worked with is that we do it we do. We're going to do it. We're going to do until we're done. Yes, I know this, some people never make it out. So should you? Is it better to stay? Not necessarily. It's not. Right. It's Do you want a front row seat? Or do you want to read about it in the paper? Yeah, that's what it boils down to. For me anyway.
Okay. The next one is, is this my fault? A lot of people overthink, if all of this is your fault. And no, it is not your fault. I know why you feel like it could be your fault from so many different angles. The person with your with that you're with maybe blaming you and telling you it's your fault all the time. You have you know, different programs that kind of put it on you as well. And like you will, this is what you're doing. And this is partially your fault and whatnot, but it's
not your fault. It is not your fault. It is so complex. These relationships are just it's it's so complicated when you're in it, that it's hard to see the reality of it. But I can just tell you, it's not.
We've talked about this. So it's not new to me. But let's go through it any point. Did you feel like that your responses or the way you treated me? Or some of the things that you got mad at me about led me down further down the
path? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
So you felt like you contributed to it? I do because
I had reactions. And everyone tells you well, you can only focus on your reactions and you know, all these things, but it's like, I wouldn't have reacted this way had I not been threatened?
That's interesting. From a perspective of like, what does it take to keep my side of the street clean? Like almost like, what doesn't make it easier for me to sleep at night? You know, I think when we focus really hard on our responses to other people, keeping our side of the street clean, it helps us sleep at night. Like I didn't contribute to that. Yes. But from an addiction. I think that I was going to do what I was going to do.
Yep. It didn't matter what my responses were, it was always going to be turned you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, your responses
could certainly put me in a position where I was more angry or more disturbed and I would want to get get loaded or something. But I was gonna get loaded when where, exactly. Yeah, I just now I have you to blame. Yeah. So I think more boils down to that, like, Do you Do you want that on you where they can come back? Because we're good at doing this? Like it's your fault. It's your fault that I did XYZ. You didn't make
it easier on me. You're You're making me want to drink that makes me want to throw a chair when someone says that? Yeah,
because they're gonna do it no matter what, no matter what your reaction is. They're going to do it
and ability to process stress. And anything else is the reason you want to drink yes, if it's not from her, it's from someone else. Someone else. It's you're gonna find something. It's the IRS letter in the mailbox. It's whatever name it finds something. We'll find something but I wouldn't think too terribly hard. Unless you're just now. Okay, let's let's like play devil's advocate for a
moment. Okay. Someone that is constantly on, someone's asked about what they're drinking, how much when's the last time you drank? I'd be taking your medication today. Like they become like a case manager for this person like a nurse. Okay, constantly, like nagging, nagging, nagging, nagging, nagging, to the point where you're not even really, that you don't look at someone as a
spouse anymore. It's more like, do this is like an authority figure that I can't stand and makes things worse, like, do you think that it's okay for people to put themselves into that authority figure? Almost like I'm responsible for your sobriety type of lame
No, but I think a lot of people do it because it's, they feel like they need to do something to protect themselves. And that's how they feel like they have a sense of control, when in reality they don't.
Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. It's interesting, you know, I think we can all be better. Like, you know, people in Al Anon are like, well, I've got my own stuff you do. My contention has always been it's just, it's much less of a part than you think it is. Yes. But the way you talk to people does matter. The way that you approach things does matter.
When it comes to any problem, you have addiction or any other issue You know, it's not nice to shame people, it's not nice to belittle them or berate them, or to call them names, or any of the above things. It's not nice, that's not a healthy way necessarily even to process or problem solve or conflict resolution is to, you know, you're the reason I do this, I can't stand you if you are only better. That doesn't help. It certainly doesn't help. But we're going to do what we're
going to do. Yeah. So yeah,
I still think that you no matter what you do, you're still going to do what you're going to do. I do
think you give yourself a better chance of sleeping well at night, and you give them a better chance at not being at seeing what the real problem is, when you're responding the right way.
Well, I think it's you're able to see it in more clarity with more clarity whenever you don't respond that way. Because then you there is no fuel to give them protecting yourself. So
let's remove the variable kind of thing, right? Yeah, but
either way, even if you you don't react, they're still going to do something. Yes, yes, that's, that's the whole list. Figure that out, you have to let them figure that out. And that's why we tell you not to justify, argue, defend or explain it's not because you're fueling the fire is because I want you to see this situation for what it is and know that you're not at fault. Because if you do yell at them, they're gonna do it. If you don't, they're gonna do it.
Yeah, it's, there's something I've seen, I've had, like, guys tell me like, my wife is the reason I drink if you had my wife, you would drink too. Okay? So either the wife leaves, or we can work with the wife and get her on the same page about how to talk with someone who's inactive addiction, how to support someone who's trying to get sober. And then the wife becomes a non non issue here, the wife is doing amazing, like she is doing everything she's
supposed to do. And then the addicted person will call me for instance, and it's like, now it's my boss on my car. That's a bitch. And if it's not one thing, it's um, it's like Whack a Mole. It's always something with you. Yep. Yep. So so you can remove all the variables and find that the result is still going to be the same, you're still going to want to use over something most the time. Yeah. Okay,
so we already kind of answered that question. And we kind of have to go. So I'm going to Can I close this out? For one thing? Yeah, let's
do it. Okay.
I kind of had a realization last week in the group when I was discussing this with some of the wheelies. And a lot of us in these relationships, have no choice but to overthink, because we don't have an equal partner. We carry the load of everything while they get to be selfish, or do whatever they're doing. And the only way to make sure that you know, shit gets done. We overthink, we take on everything, we have to have structure, we have to have
these. These rules we have to have like all of these guidances like to make sure that shit gets done, because we know that we can't depend on our partner to do it. And that's why we overthink. Absolutely,
there's a reason for it. Yeah, you're not broken. You're not You're not broken. Yeah, it's a feature. It's not like a
problem. It's a feature. Yeah. It's like evolutionary processes have played into this to what's the benefit of this being passed down someone who can think forward in the future predict what's going to happen recognize patterns, think about the possible scenarios of what could go wrong, like risk assessment, social navigation, problem solving, anxiety, regulation, anticipation of future needs, these are all qualities that you would want someone to have in your pack. Yes, not a bad thing.
And you're sort of pinned into this corner where you're forced to do it. It's not like people wake up one day, it's like, you know what I want to do maybe a control freak. Really? Yeah. Who wants to do that? No,
you have no choice. It's how you're surviving and getting through the day. Yeah. So I hope this episode was helpful.
I do too.
I think that we,
I think it's repackaging of some like similar information we've had before. But anytime you can repackage it and give to someone in a new way. I think that's what makes makes us better teachers. Great, and basically information new. So, alright, let's do it. Let's finish it up. All right. Well, thank you for being here with us again. Thank you so much for being part of this thing. Getting 100,000 downloads was awesome. Give me a fist bump. Pray work. Alright, until next time, I am Matt