The rom coms don't show a lot of that work happening. People are either, like, already ready and find someone and have to figure out a few obstacles, which they do quickly, or everything is just so much easier than it actually is in real life. And being a human in a relationship is a lot of work. It can be really hard and it's really worth it. But people just gotta know what they're getting into. Well, hello, everybody. We are so excited to be here.
I'm Kira. And I'm Isabelle. And welcome to the rom.com rescue podcast, a brand new podcast where we bring the love and life lessons from your favorite rom coms. I'm Kira Saban. I am a healthy dating educator, a certified coach, and a positive psychology practitioner. But more importantly, I spend my days teaching the skills and mindsets of dating because it's rough out there. And what I have found that most of us just don't know
how to date. So I've been spending the last 16 years of my life teaching people how to set boundaries, how to build self worth, how to make sure that when they meet a great person, they know how to date them and they know how to create a relationship with them. Isabel, tell us a little bit about you. Well, while you take on the dating and the front end of a relationship, I take on the back end once people are together. I am a licensed clinical psychologist and an
EFT certified couples therapist. And my private practice is solely focused on working with couples who come in because of a crisis or because of longstanding issues with communication, recurring fights they can't seem to get out of. And I help them have the happiest, healthiest relationship possible. That's awesome. I'm just going to stir this pot right away. I heard that couples go to therapy six years too late. What do you think?
That's correct. Research shows it's about six to seven years of being unhappy before couples finally go to couples therapy. For a lot of reasons, I think people still have the misconception that couples therapy is for the brink of divorce. It's like you're about to get divorced, so you finally go and really, like, with dating, you should be proactive. You should get help as quickly as possible because it just saves you a lot of suffering. I'm sure that, too, with people you work with.
Absolutely. It's. Yes, absolutely. But when I heard that statistic, I was like, are you kidding me? But I know it's true. We are a society who's not really into prevention, not really into making sure that things are good. We're really into fixing them when they're really bad. But, yeah, the first time I heard that, I was like, that's crazy, but I fully believe it. But I'm not talking to couples therapists every day, so I wanted to know what you think. I'm a little nervous, and
I think we both are, because this is our first episode. I have been doing podcasts for a while, but I've been doing solo podcasts, which just means it's me and my microphone and nothing. So this is brand new. Isabel and I found each other, I don't know, maybe a year ago, even maybe not that long ago, on Instagram. And so we're still getting to know each other. So you guys are actually getting to know each other with us as we get to know each other, which is fun.
Fun and exciting and everything else. It is. I actually love our meet cute, and especially that we don't remember it the same way, where I have the impression of finding you on Instagram, loving your content, wanting to learn from you, messaging you, and trying to, like, sneakily become your best friend through your DM's. And your impression was like, oh, I didn't think that was happening at all. At all. That just shows how much we miss things, right? We miss signals. Here you
are on Instagram, clearly of a crush on me. I'm kidding. No, obviously. Obviously, no. I just remember being like, oh, this woman seems cool. And then going back to whatever I was working on. I'm pining away for you, okay? And you're living your life. This is classic rom.com. I know. We are already in the thick of relationships right there. No, but we've become friends. And when I was thinking about doing
this, I was, okay, I need a co host. I want somebody who's bringing a different perspective, coming from a different place. And I think I remember. So one of the things that you and I connected on and was the beginning of me talking about tv shows, reality shows, movies, things like that, was I broke down the first season of Love is blind because I got talked into it. I hate dating reality shows. They make my eye twitch. It's because
they're so unhealthy. Like, I want to cry the whole entire time. And I know that you talked about love is blind, too. So I was like, I love it. And you not only have talked about love is blind, you have taken that, like, a whole step further. Yeah. So I wrote about love is blind a few seasons later than the one you did on psychology today, where I have a blog where I analyze onscreen relationships,
and one of the articles went viral. And long story short, now I'm a founding board member of the UCAN foundation, which is a nonprofit dedicated to helping people who are in reality tv to know their rights and advocate for themselves and get mental
health and legal support and to try to change the industry at large. But I think where we connected on that point was we both watched it, we both spoke about it and analyzed it, and both had the same sort of icky feeling of, this isn't really how it goes in real life, and people are not being given all the tools to make good decisions. I don't think it sat right, either of us. And so I think we just realized how aligned we were in doing this work from our
experiences with that show. Absolutely. And we're going to be talking about this a lot, which is, there's a very big difference between entertainment and healthy ideas, healthy content. And we're entertained by these reality tv shows, these dating tv shows, rom coms, all of them. But that doesn't mean they're healthy.
That doesn't mean they're helpful in any way. And sometimes we're learning downright terrible information from these different types of shows, from these rom coms that I think that everybody's, oh, I know it's not real, but I still see us acting from that place. I still see us sometimes making decisions from that place. I'll hear things come out of my clients mouths like, well, men just don't have as many emotions as women, right? And I'm like, where did you get that information
from? Where? But I think that's some of the really unhealthy things that we see in entertainment that we've been taught throughout the years. And I'm a little bit older. I'm like 15 years older, actually. So we both came up in even, like, different spaces and places. And as a. I turned 50 this year. I am on a daily basis seeing the things that I was taught to believe, that I was supposed to take care of men, that I was supposed to be polite to men, even if they iched
me out. I was supposed to do all of these things because I was a woman. And I love the following generations that are calling bullshit on that, and I'm still shaking that shit off every single day. It's hard because you watch it and you watch it over and over again with the same tropes going through, and the stories are so compelling, right? The romantic part is so
exciting, and they are always happy in the end. And you don't realize the parts of the story that you are internalizing and then expecting and living that are not serving you. And I even think about when I was young, probably too young, watching pretty woman and not really understanding what was happening. Like, I knew that he was buying her time, but I didn't
understand the full extent. But even that message of the man being financially responsible and scooping people out of bad situations and defending them and all these things that, especially when you're young, you don't think about until suddenly you're faced with a situation where you realize you've been believing something so unhelpful, and now you have to undo all of that. It's really hard. It absolutely is. And sometimes believing some of these basic ideas and not. I don't even want to
say we believe them, but we don't question them. So we get ourselves into different situations or situationships or relationships where maybe we've seen it on tv a thousand times or movies a thousand times, and we're like, wow, this is actually not healthy, and this doesn't feel good. And I'm sure that there will be a
time on this podcast that we discussed pretty woman. It will not be right away, because the fact that Richard Gere is 20 years older than her alone just upsets me, that I'm like, okay, so we're starting there, huh? Not even any of the money exchange, not any of the. Him basically being okay with his friend, I think, maybe hitting her. I don't know. Yeah, exactly like that. He attacks her. Yeah. Yeah. We have to table this because there's so much with the power differential, but it's that kind of
good content people can look forward to hearing on this podcast. Absolutely. Why we're doing this podcast, and because there are other rom.com podcasts out there. There's plenty of movie review podcasts out there. We're taking a little bit different of a take. Both you and I have been in our field for years and years, teaching people in real life what healthy relationships look like, what they feel like, and how to get them. And that is my life purpose at
this point for me. And I really think that out of the two groups, and I'm probably biased, you might feel completely different. There's not a ton of healthy information for singles. There's not a ton of healthy, like, here are things you can actively do to get yourself in a better situation, in a better relationship. Choose wiser. So you're not five years, ten years later going, oh, my gosh, who did I marry. Who is this person? I don't even know. And
it tore us down. I really think that there's a lot we can do on the front end to prevent a ton of time with Isabel in the future. I'm not trying to take away your job in any way, but do you know what I mean? Make it better so that you're more of a tweak than a make or break. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I think there is so much work people can do to be ready to be in a good relationship. And then I also think that there is a certain amount of work that can only be done in
the context of a relationship. And so it's both pieces, right? Be as prepared and ready as you can and expect to do more work once you find the person that you want to spend your life with. But I think back to the rom coms. They don't show a lot of that work happening. People are either, like, already ready and find someone and have to figure out a few obstacles, which they do quickly, or everything is just so much easier than it actually is in real life. And being a human in a relationship
is a lot of work. It can be really hard and it's really worth it, but people just got to know what they're getting into. So that's why we're here. We're going to hold up these rom coms under a lens to say, hey, here's something great we can learn from these. We can laugh at them, we can appreciate them, but we can also say, wait, but that's actually not healthy and something we can be doing.
And to me, it's such a great learning tool. I'll talk about boundaries, but people have a hard time figuring out how to actually do that or apply that to the relationship. But if we have a movie that we're all watching, and then you and I can say, do you see this moment where they set those boundaries? Then everybody's like, oh, I see it. I see it. And then everybody can learn a little bit better, which is the goal here.
Yeah, I think I'll share this, if this is all right with you, that I think we both went into the saying, we don't want to be too harsh and cynical when we are talking about these movies. And I think we both had the expectation there would be so many bad messages to unearth and warn people against that we didn't want to go down this negative route. But watching the ones that we've started watching and talking about, we've actually really loved them. And these
are pom comps are fun. They're just inherently fun and romantic. And who doesn't love a good happy ending? So I think it is exactly what you said. Be entertained, enjoy them, kick back, but just take the right lessons from them into your actual life. And you can do both things. So people don't have to swear off rom coms. They just have to be mindful consumers of the messages they're taking in. I couldn't have said it better. So let's get into rom coms. Are you a rom.com fan?
What was the first rom.com you remember seeing? Did you like it? Did you love it? Tell me a little bit about your experience with rom coms. Kira. I'm worried this is going to be our first relationship rupture, so I just want our listeners to be prepared for this. The first rom.com that I loved and watched and rewatched was dirty dancing. And to this day, I love it. To my core,
I loved it. And it's, for whatever reason, it just speaks to my soul. And it captured a moment and time in my life when I was so susceptible to that kind of romantic story. So now I feel like I have to give you the floor that you can speak your piece. Not at all. And it's funny because we have some questions coming up, and we have not discussed all of our answers in any way. So I did not know that Isabel was gonna say that. But one of the things I said was, what's like a rom.com that everybody
loves that you don't? And I said, personally, for me, it's dirty dancing. Because one of the things that I think people who listen to this are gonna find out, particularly about me, is I'm like a very real person. I will tell you a story, even if it makes me sound like an asshole. I will tell you, because I want people to learn from my mistakes, too. And I will say this about myself. I feel like I was immature for my age. I feel like I was really young being raised in a christian light Methodist
environment. And so to me, why I think I didn't like dirty dancing or why I was so turned off when I was younger, because I remember seeing it. I think it came out in maybe 87, so I would have been 14. So I was supposed to be only a couple years younger than baby was supposed to be in that scenario. And I just remember, first of all, I thought Johnny was so old. I thought, Patrick says she was so old. I was
like, why is she dating this guy? But then all the complications about his friend who was having an abortion. And I think that it was too much for me at that age. I did not know how to take in those stories and make sense of it. So it felt a little scary. And I was like, I'm not enjoying, yeah, I'm not enjoying the love story here because it's way heavier than just she goes off to a family camp and falls in love with the dance instructor. There's the family dynamics and
she has a sister. There's just so many parts. But I'll be honest, I have not watched Dirty Dancing since maybe the nineties. So we will probably have to do a rewatch at some point on this podcast. And maybe I'm going to come back and love it because I'd like to think that I can change my mind and I can grow and I can evolve. But I actually thought about it since because I know people are like, what, you don't love dirty dancing? And I'm like, why do you monster? Right? But I'm like, why
don't I like dirty dancing? What is this beloved film? What is my thing? And I really think it's that. And I also think breakfast club at the time, in the eighties, remember seeing that? And that was also very heavy, right? And I just felt very young and was not able to take on those topics. The eighties were very much like a very special episode of like, what they were really delving into
to topics. And I think it took me a long time to grow up and be okay with some of them because they were, they're pretty heavy and I don't know if I was ready for them at the time. And they are very heavy. And I don't think Dirty Dancing is gonna hold up with a rewatch from this perspective. I'm thinking about parts of it now that we'll already be talking. Okay, but so for you, it wasn't dirty dancing. That's not your childhood favorite. What for you is like the first
rom.com that you loved and held onto. So first of all, my first rom.com, I remember, first of all, there was grease. I was even alive in the seventies, for God's sake. But. And I don't know if that's grease. Is that a rom.com? It's not a healthy one. She's basically put slaps on hot pants and is, let's do it, boys. I don't know how healthy that was, but the first kind of rom coms I remember were a little bit more early, mid eighties, so
there was a movie called Romancing the Stone. And I wanted. I'm going to out isabelle right now that I mentioned this movie the other day. She did not know what it was for my older listeners, like myself. And that's okay because maybe we're going to watch her, make her watch it as well as splash, which was, this is where Tom Hanks was, like, just starting to get into kind of that goofy rom coms that he was so.
Well, like Joe versus volcano. And then obviously moving into the nineties of you've got mail and sleepless in Seattle. But I also was lucky enough to grow up, like I said, I think a little bit young, but in the John Hughes era. So Jake Ryan waiting by that car at the end, I'm hearing the music in my head when she's like. Like, sucker. Like, I just. I am. It has taken me years to get the Jake
Ryan belief out of my head. That's healthy. That some guy who virtually doesn't talk to you the entire movie, and you have fresh, like, at your 16th birthday that your parents forgot or your whole family forgot because your sister was getting married. She's, like, high on, like, volume, but he saves her by. So romantic. Yeah. Like, it's. But Michael Schlefling, who plays that, I mean, he was just such a quintessential quiet type, that silent type that you just thought would love you forever. Oh,
man. I mean, I was so. I love the John Hughes movies and just all of that. What about you? I'm just realizing that there was really a time of this popular bad boy that really had a heyday and it hasn't come back around. Really? That hasn't been a recent theme. But I do love a bad boy showing up and being romantic, surprisingly, at the end. Oh, I love being a bad boy. Oh, I love it. Are you kidding? Like a Jake Ryan. We've got
Bender, who was in breakfast club. We've got Craig Shepherd's character in some kind of wonderful, which is my favorite of the eighties. Like, I don't even think that's a full on John Hughes movie. Oh, my gosh. So I think there will just be. I'm dating myself. I know. That's okay. That's okay. You also grew up in what I will say is a little bit of a really quintessential rom.com time, which was that mid, late nineties. There was so many rom coms from 95 to early two thousands. It was crazy.
Yes. So many high school rom coms, so many high school specific, ugly duckling, popular boy. That whole narrative. Really. And who doesn't want that to be their story. When they're also in high school, everyone feels a little unseen, and you want the popular person to pick you and give you a makeover, and everything works out in the end. I'm really. I'm going back. I'm being
taken back. It's very nostalgic. I'm enjoying this. It's been interesting diving back into just watching and organizing like we've been talking about what we want to break down and everything, and just seeing kind of the theme. Themes of different rom coms. There's that theme of there's so many Shakespeare or Jane Austen in the mid to the late nineties, where so many teen rom coms based on ten things I hate about you is taming of the shrew. We've got clueless,
which is Emma, I believe, which is a Jane Austen. There's these different times, and I can't wait to break them all down. Cause it's just. They're all bringing Shakespeare. Let's just. It's not going to be highly empowering for women if it was written in, like, the 16 hundreds. So throw it. What it is. It took me a long time to realize, absolutely fucked up. Romeo and Juliet is, they're 13. They die, they
die, they die. I know, but it speaks to our desire to have this love above all else, that we'd sacrifice anything for that person, would sacrifice anything to be with us, because we all want to feel spiritual, special. That's like a human need, is to feel important and special to someone, especially to someone romantically. And these stories know exactly how to hit that note and make us feel that same feeling of, this is
more important than life. This love is more important than anything, which is a beautiful idea, but in real life, it doesn't play out in quite the same way, hopefully. So that's an important thing for everyone to know. How horrified would we be now if two middle schoolers virtually lost their lives because they were so in love with each other? This would be like a 2020 or a Dateline episode, like young love gone
wrong. But it's so funny that we even still hold, like, ideals up to some of these stories that when we look at them through a little bit more of a critical view, we're like, oh, yeah, that's a whole lot of crazy. That's a whole lot. That's a whole lot of crazy. And one of the best things that I found out in the last few years is that Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliet as a warning about romantic love. Yes. Versus which, of course, we don't
talk about. And you are reading my mind right now because it's exactly what I was going to say is part of the rom.com intrigue is that it is a love match. Whereas most of history people have been put together because it's made economic sense or their families have decided it behooves them right. Cultural reasons, all sorts of stuff. There have been a lot of many times in life and marriages, it has not been primarily for
love. And when that door opened and people could choose to be together despite what their families and their cultures and whatever expectations demanded, the idea of finding this one true love that you would give up everything for was so romantic and seemed so sweet, and it went a little too far in that direction. When you start looking at one of the things that I have done in my life and my business in the last few years is really understand the history of love, of romantic love, of dating,
of relationships. When did it start? And once you start learning, you're like, oh, this has never been good. This has never been healthy. This has never been helpful. Women have not really had any kind of roles or, or choices until literally, I'm not even joking. The seventies and eighties, just as a reminder that I'm telling people regularly because they're like, I want what my grandparents had or my great grandparents. I'm like, oh, you mean you don't
want to be able to have your own bank account? Is that what you're talking about? Is that what you wanted? I remind people, because they're like, why do me? Why don't guys want to pay for dates? I said, because the reason men paid for dates for all those years is because women were only paid enough to supplement their husbands or their father's salary. So you actually couldn't really afford to barely live
if you did not marry. So it's really interesting what we look back at and, like, back on and emulate that's not really ever been good or healthy. And that's the kind of stuff I want to bring on this podcast, because here's what I have learned when our story's a little different and if we can sidestep for a second. I'm 50 years old. I didn't meet my husband till I was 41 years old. I was actually in my hometown at a bowling alley. It was an accidental meeting.
We got drunk on Sambuca. Why the fuck I was drinking Sambuca in a bowling alley at 41 years old. The way I kara, who are you? The way I describe it is going to my hometown building alley, because I'm only from a town of 5000 people in small town Wisconsin is like the high school reunion you didn't ask for. So especially a younger version of me that drank quite a bit more. The minute I walked in there and saw all of the people I knew, I was like, what is going to get me drunk?
Okay, Sambuca. There we go. Throw it on ice and let's just do it. And I ended up meeting Danny that night, who's my husband? You'll probably hear his name more than a little. And it was an accident. We got, and we got drunk. I got him drinking some buck. I don't think he'd ever had it before. And then we made out out back by the dumpster. And that was our first date, or our first night, how we met. Oh, I love that. But the random chance of in a small town finally
meeting and noticing each. Other, it was actually a friend. So my friend Rob, who I was going to actually meet his new girlfriend, who he met from a Valentine's Day challenge that I put out to everybody on Facebook. So it was this weird moment in time. And he was like, hey, I'm in town. Are you in town? I'm like, I am in town. And then he's, oh, I also have another friend in town. Can they join us? And I was like, I don't care. And then
Rob said, well, they want to go bowling. I'm like, I'm not fucking going bowling. And then Rob's like, well, that's where we're going. And I'm like, fine. 2 hours later at the bowling yard. Right, exactly. So that friend ended up being Danny. He didn't set us up. There was no intention. It was literally a, I'm trying to see as many people as I can while I'm in this one spot kind of situation. But here we are. But I love to tell. I don't know how much I love to
tell that story because we sound like hicks. And we made out my mom's car after we made up at the dumpster, by the way, in the backseat. So I think Isabelle's just hearing this for the first time, everybody. So I also just like to say, because you never. I didn't know. I didn't know that night that he would be the man that I would marry. I didn't know
it when I saw it. There was no love at first sight. I didn't feel like I wasn't like, even after teaching about love and dating relationships for five plus years at that point, it took probably a couple months to go, oh, this might actually be something, right? Oh, do I actually want to check something out with this guy? It took a while because it was both a
wacky and weird time in our lives. And I love people because one things that rom coms do is they make us believe that it's going to be this grand gesture or this huge moment, or there's instant sparks, and there was no instant sparks. Like, the only sparks that happened was some bucca and a lot of it, because I did not feel good that next day at all. So a lot of it. And then he, at one point when we were putting our shoes on from
bowling, looked at me and goes, I just think you're beautiful. And I was like, this guy's getting made out with tonight. So that's Danny. What, that? Yeah. I don't know. He just looked at me. I just think you're like, gorgeous or beautiful or something along those lines. Because we'd been flirting a little bit because as the sambuca roles were a go. And he said that, I literally looked at him and goes, oh, okay, well, we're making out and he's like, all right. And so, yeah, dumpster
City, are you impressed? Who's impressed? I hope everybody is gonna come back and tell me how impressed they are with that story. If you're listening to this and you're looking for love, we highly recommend your local bowling alley, sambuca. And if a dumpster is present, take. Advantage, because obviously the pyramid of love, right? Sambuca, bowling alley, dumpsters. I think the secret, no one will tell you. Right? Exactly. Right here we did on this podcast. You are getting the real shit.
Isabel, tell me a little bit about your love story. Oh, it's such a different love story. My husband went to college with my eldest sister, so I have two older sisters. So we had. And it's a complicated, incestuous web of who dated and married who within this friend group because my two eldest sisters went to the same college and were in the same group. So we orbited each other for a long time. It's a small college in New England that people probably haven't heard of. It's
called Harvard. Right. Okay. Just making sure. I'm from a town of 5000, Wisconsin. Isabel's like my sister and my husband went to the. Went to the same college. Oh, it's Harvard. Oh, okay. Yeah, Harvard is a big deal. Less of a big deal when you live in Boston. Feels like everyone goes there, does something there. I didn't go to Harvard. I didn't go to an Ivy League school. Just everyone knows. But
I married into it, so we knew each other for a long time. But he's four years older, so when he was in college, I was in high school. That didn't seem appropriate for many reasons. And then my sister had a birthday party, and we all got together at her place. I was in grad school at the time, and I was single. And she said, you know, who's gonna be there? Who's really cute? And he plays poker, and he's got a really cool
sports car. Lucas is gonna be there. And so she just put the bug in my ear, and that night, we, like, finally paid attention to each other and flirted. And I remember distinctly, a bunch of girls got into an uber to go to a club where we're gonna all go hang out then for her birthday. And one of my friends was like, oh, lucas is cute. And I remember saying, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, I have dibs on him. I actually have all dibs on him. And she goes, totally get
it. You go, absolutely. Totally understand. And that was the beginning of him and I. And so we started talking, and he is more introverted than I am, so I thought he wasn't interested in me because he would not text me back right away or accept my Facebook friend request right away. And so I had to manage my own anxiety about that. And I like to joke that I just hounded him down until he agreed to date. And here we are, over a decade later. Two kids, a dog.
He's stuck now, that's for sure. Stuck. Getting out. Not getting out. Yeah. No. No dumpster, but no dumpster. I feel like that's okay, though. I don't know if it's love. Cause that's not the triangle of love that we've just determined was like. But I think you'll get there, so that's what matters. No, I think that's a great story. Part of the reason that I love you and I doing this is because we are in different
places. Right? You have two younger kids. I am chosen child free, and I'm Gen X. You're millennial. Do you like being a millennial? Yeah, I like millennials a lot, actually. I guess so. I think it turns out that there's all these different distinctions of millennials. Yeah, they're always. Those are millennials. Except for my little age range, my year range, we don't get one. We're just like the average millennials. So I guess it's fine. I guess it's average. Nothing wrong with average.
So did we have any relationships that felt like a rom.com? So for you before? Cause I will tell you, Danny and I did not feel like a rom.com. It felt like, hilarious until I was like, oh, I might like this person. And then he's like, I might like you. And then we create a relationship. But what about you? Like the younger version of Isabel. Were there any relationships that felt like rom coms?
I think like my high school. The beginning of my high school relationship because it's young love, so everything feels momentous. At one point, he made me a mixed CD with the songs that he loved that made him think of me. That was very romcom. Tell me at least one song on that mixtape. I just. What kind of love was being expressed from this mix CD? I'm Sorry, MCCD. He loved Bob Dylan. I'm sure there was a Bob Dylan song in there which I probably didn't care for. I don't even know
how terrible is that. I'm sure I listened to it 10,000 times. I can't think of a single song that was on it. But at the time it felt very romantic and rom comy. And then we ended up dating on and off for eight or ten years and it became a lot less romcomy over time. That'll do it. The eight or ten years of on and off will do it. I would say so. My favorite rom.com, by the way, is when Harry met Sally. Hands down. Love it. It's. I've watched it probably at least 100 times.
I can quote it more than probably any other movie that's out there. And I was really bought into the friends to lovers trope because I tried to make every one of my guy friends. My boyfriend did not work, by the way. Don't do it. Painful. So I really was uncomfortable with dating and expressing interest. This is just me and things I've learned about myself, I think. As I mentioned, I felt like I was just immature. I feel like my parents were good people, but raised
me a little naively. So it took me a while to come out of the gate and start dating, and trusting men were scary to me for a really long time. That's just the truth. So right after college, I started working on cruise ships, actually. So that's something you'll hear me reference. And I'd never actually seen a cruise ship in real life. This was 1995. Only on the love boat. If you remember or know what that tv show is, have you at least heard that reference,
Isabel. I have heard of it. I have not seen it, but I have heard of it. So I had never actually seen a cruise ship, but I went and worked on cruise ships, and that was such a great experience. Cause I got to travel. I was literally surrounded by 80 different nationalities as crew. And so I was able to just really expand and get to know things because I went to a very small private arts college in Iowa. So I just
was really protected. But by the time that I got off cruise ships, I ended up meeting one of my college guy friends roommates. And it was instant, right? It was one of those brief moments in my life that I was like, I'm gonna be making up with this guy by the end of the evening. Like, that is 100% gonna happen. And then the next night, we went to a movie. We went to actually see Shakespeare in love. So speaking of late nineties. Right, Shakespeare in love, which I
love. And we walked out, and as we were walking out of the theater, so we just saw this, like, rom.com. We were holding hands and sitting next to each other and flirting, and then we walked out, and it started snowing. And I just remember later that night, he kissed me outside in the snow. And I was like, this has to be love because this is everything I've ever seen before in a rom.com, my good friend's roommate. And there's instant sparks and we go and we flirt,
and then we walk outside and it's snowing. And he kissed me. And I literally used. Just so we know, 50 year old Kira is dramatic, but 20, like, five year old Kira was a lot more dramatic than this. So that was, like, 98. And I used to describe the kiss the first time he kissed me as. It's from a song, an english song, and it's. We kissed. He kissed me like, he invented it. Oh, my God. I'm so impressed right now. I'm, like, blushing. I'm so impressed. I held onto that
so fucking long. I held onto that. That kiss, that moment, like, really? Because I was. It was so great. And we just had so much in common, and there was just so much at the time, flirtation and sexual tension and stuff. It didn't make sense that it didn't work out, right? I was like, this is it, right? This is what I've been watching for all of these years. These are the movies, the tv shows. This is how it feels.
And so when we didn't end up together, when we ended up making out a bunch of time, and then it turned out he met somebody else around the same time as he met me, and then they started dating. I was devastated because I literally thought that's what relationships start like. And when you feel like that's. It's got to be it, like, that's got to be love, I now realize what, how naive that was, how there was attraction, but this guy was so emotionally unavailable, it was
crazy. He was definitely trying to figure out his life at that time and everything else, but I was just. If I can insert little heart eyes here. Yeah. But I was convinced that is what love was because that's exactly what I had seen on screen and in tv shows and in Jane Austen novels and all of the Judy Bloom and everything else that I had been reading and consuming for years, that I was devastated when it didn't work out.
And that wasn't the only time that happened. That's, like, in my mind, it was just so idyllic. I also spent a summer on cruise ships in the Mediterranean, basically going around Italy and Greece and Spain and France. And let me tell you, I had a ship's boyfriend that summer for the pure fact that I was wine drunk all the time and just, I was in the most romantic part in the world. And we were just like, we should just make out just because it's really pretty here. Yeah. As one should. Yes. That
makes sense to me. So why are we doing this, Isabelle? Why are we doing this? Thoughts? We are doing this because rom coms are fantastic and people love them, and there are so many messages and things we can learn from them. And you and I feel pretty qualified to be the ones to dissect and analyze and show people what they can and should know about their favorite rom coms, because we both have a passion for people having a realistic idea of healthy love so that they can find it in their own real
lives. What would you add? Why else are we doing this? For me, I just told you that story about this guy. I was single for a really long time because I held onto these ideals that didn't exist. I believed this fairy tale that literally kept me single, unhappy. And it was almost impossible for me to move forward with someone because I had such unrealistic expectations. I now am in a
relationship. It is the hardest relationship I've ever had. I had to take a look at myself and my role and how I showed up in the beginning. There was a lot of therapy, and I luckily have a lot of coach and therapist friends during that first year because I'm also a very anxious attachment style, which I'm sure. We will bring up at some point on this podcast more than a few times. Dating for me was really hard. And I would
sabotage it. I would sabotage it by believing in these fairy tales. And when that person didn't add up to that, which, how could they? Because somebody's not writing my life. There's no scripts. It would be sad. And I would, like, either walk away or I think I would get upset and sabotage it, or I would just go quiet. Because, like, the nineties ghosting was just. People stopped calling. That's all I know. There's no people just stop
calling. You don't get on aim. Exactly. So I just think it's so important for us to understand that this is entertainment and there are wonderful stories, and we can feel good, and we can look at handsome and beautiful people and beautiful places around the world, but it's not love. Because what love to me is the hours upon hours that Danny and I have sat on the couch having tough conversations about, like, I'm a plus size woman,
my health and my struggle with weight loss. And he actually got sober in the first year of our relationship, so he went into rehab. Like, we have had some bumps in the road. The love that we have built from intimacy, connection, vulnerability, boundaries, all of the healthy things is unmatched. I wake up being loved for exactly who I am every single day, and I do the same for him. And no rom.com, I, like, have chills. Like, no rom.com even measures up to what we have created in
reality. And I want us to love rom coms, and I want us to enjoy them and laugh and watch them as our comfort shows and soothe ourselves. But I also want us to understand that real love is better. That is a conversation we had, and I think this is the takeaway. Right? And I know I told you this many times. Cause I love when you said this. Love rom coms, but love real love more, which I think is the takeaway of this is rom coms are so great. They're fun, they're entertaining. They're
romantic. They're a fantasy that we all love to indulge in. Even people who see the unhealthy parts of it can still set that aside and indulge in a really quality rom.com and enjoy it.
But don't think that's what your life is going to look like, or you're going to be set up for a really big disappointment, and you're going to pass on people who could actually be really good people for you, and you're going to miss out on relationships, and you're going to miss out on the work, the work of a relationship, because they don't show it in rom coms. It's those tough conversations. It's three months where you think you're going to get divorced because you can't
seem to get on the same page. But you keep talking and you keep trying, and you stay together until you get to the other side of that hard time. Real relationships, long relationships, are just. Aren't as pretty as a rom.com makes love look, but they're so worthwhile. They're so worth all of that work. And the romantic parts are even more romantic because it is deeply
authentic. Like you said, it's somebody who sees all of you and knows all of you and chooses to love you and be with you and do the work with you. And that's what we want people to see and to try to strive for in their life. I love our podcast. I love it, too. I say this pretty regularly on my own podcast and to my clients, which I say I really like the person I am because I've fought to be her. I grew up very naive, very innocent, in a small town in
Wisconsin. I've now traveled the world. I've led 27 retreats around the world. I've taken single women with me, and I spend my days helping people understand what love can be, how to date, to get to that place, and just really letting go of all of the bullshit fairy tales that we have believed that are keeping us from love. Because I study the dating culture. I study what we do. I think dating apps have almost hurt us more than help us. I think
that we're not connecting. And when we're not connecting as a society, terrible things happen. When people feel like they don't belong, when people don't feel seen or heard or loved, that's when we see terrible things. I realize that you and I are just talking about rom coms and laughing about them. And I swear a lot. And we're bringing some deep thoughts. My ultimate goal is that we're changing lives, that we're getting people into real and beautiful, loving relationship that
spin out to the world. And I know that I'm a better person because of Danny, I know that he's a better person because of me, and that we make a bigger impact because of our love and our relationship. Boy, I'm ridiculous. I know why you're gonna think this is just. This is truly what I believe. And like I said, I'm 50 years old. I'd never lived with somebody I'd
never been proposed to before. Danny. I just made a lot of just really ridiculous decisions for a lot of times, and then I just shut down, like in my thirties. I was like, screw it, I don't want this. There is a story on my podcast about my dad becoming ill and the wake up call that I will not bore people with here. But I mourned the young version of myself and the love that she believed in, because it was so not
real. And I struggled for a lot of years, and then if PCos, so gaining weight and everything else, it just made me just shut down more and isolate more and not want to date more. And I'm just really thankful that I took a chance on Danny and he took a chance on me, and we really built something that works because this wasn't found, this was made. And I love people to understand that, because a lot of singles think that we fall in love and we're just finding the right one,
and that's just not true. It's not. It is. The effort you put into your relationships. That's exactly right. We're gonna have to get into this more at some point, because we had very different experiences with dating and relationships when we were younger. You think? You said you found, like, men to be scary, and I found. I saw men as a thing to be conquered. I was ruthless in my pursuit of a relationship and keeping one and getting the right one, the next
one. I really strove for it in a very different way and healthy in a whole different sense of the word. Putting up with things that I shouldn't, demanding things that I shouldn't, unrealistic expectations. But in a whole different lens. There'll be a lot for us to discuss. We've got all the time in the world and everybody, we've got a free Facebook group and community that you
can join. So we're going to be talking in between, and I'm sure that people could probably talk us into some non rom.com bonus episodes, just a little bit about our own lives and break that down a little bit more, because I do believe that we learn from each other's stories, and I know that you and I have had different stories, and I can't wait to hear
about Isabelle the conqueror. So I have this idea in my head of you, like, in a barbarella type of outfit with, I don't know, like a big norwegian viking hat or something. So let's talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about week to week. So what we're going to be breaking down what makes us a little different. We're not going to be really talking about the director's viewpoint. We're not going to be talking
about script flaws or things like that. We're looking at this as a relationship that we are looking at breaking down the components to yes. Which is so important for listeners to know. This isn't just going to be like random commentary or a comedic take on a movie. We are going to be looking at evidence based things about relationships and dating that listeners should be aware of. So evidence of boundary issues, self esteem issues, things that
I would consider abuse in a relationship or early on in dating. We'll cover really heavy stuff and also lighter issues that may arise using words that are really attacking or overly defensive. The whole spectrum of things. You have some great ideas for specific things we're going to touch on for each episode. Yeah. A couple of themes that I like to just talk about anyway are I like to point out when I say good boundaries or a lack
of boundaries. Boundaries. So not walls, not people just saying no, but actual boundaries. I love to talk about attachment styles, the anxious versus the avoidant, especially, which I think show up a lot in rom coms, but are looked as more like gender specific things and are not. We're going to be discussing that also. Just red and green flags. Ooh, look what they did there. That's great. Maybe you didn't know it was great or
ooh, look what they did there. Not great. Maybe you didn't know that wasn't great. So just picking some of the things that I think we talk about in the real world, but pointing them out in different scenes or in the movies so that people can see actual examples of them. So we can either use that as a role model or use that as a role model to not do whatsoever. Yes, we're going to point out areas, times when couples do the work, which
is this phrase that people allude to and don't know what that means. What is the work of a relationship? We will show you when it happens or when it doesn't happen. This was a time when they should have done the work and they didn't do the work. And you'll have to in your own life if you want this relationship. Predictors of divorce indicators that a couple won't make it. We'll look at those. We'll look at communication and conflict resolution, rupture repair skills. We're going to
cover all of it. All of it. And then at the end, we're going to go, do we think they'd make it? Why? We're going to talk about once we get past that whole falling in love phase that rom coms love to show us, do they have the skills, the mindsets and even sometimes the situation that's going to keep that going? Or was this just a moment in time? Because sometimes that's all it is. Yeah, the honeymoon phase is great for everyone, but in five to ten years, is that couple still going to
be together? We're going to tell you our best guess. Our best guess. So here's some things we're also not going to do. We're not going to talk shit about actors. We're just not going to do that. We're not going to be weighing in on people's lives, people's personal relationships. That's just not who we are. We don't really know what happens behind people's closed doors. So we're just not going to do that. Another thing that I'm really
adamant about is we're not going to make any gender the bad guy. We're not going to say all men do this or all women do that. When it's terrible, they do that. I actually think that most gender specific things are not real. It's more about attachment styles. It's more about a lot of other things that have nothing to do with us being a woman or a man or however
you identify. And that's really important to me because it drives me crazy when somebody takes 3.5 billion of the population and makes them think we're all the exact same. Totally agree. I think we both are. So on the same page, we will point out when we see the stereotypical gender roles being reinforced in an unhelpful way and help people challenge their ideas of what men or women should or shouldn't do in relationships. So we'll highlight it, but we won't endorse it by any
means. We're not going to talk about the one. There is no one. There are many. There are many people that could be a good fit for you in your romantic life. There is not one single soul person. So we're not going to be a part of that narrative because it's not helpful and there's no evidence to think that it's true. And we're also not going to just talk about the unhealthy bad. Lessons from the rom coms. This is going to be a full picture. The good, the bad, the in between.
It's going to be uplifting. It's going to be fun. It's going to be educational while you're being entertained. It's not going to be us just shitting on the rom.com that we chose to watch that week because that's not fun. We want you to leave feeling happier, lighter, better informed, but also in a good mood. That's going to be our goal. I always want this to feel empowering. I always want us to know that what we're learning from that movie or from this podcast are things that we can apply
so that we can do better. That's what I think is exciting about what you and I both do. It's not just. We're just not sitting here going, yeah, doesn't this stink? No. There's, like, active things that we can do to better our relationships, to better our friendships, to better our dating experiences. There are things that we can do, and most of us have never learned them. I have had to actively research, coach, get therapy, all of
these different things to become the person that I have become. And I want to help other people do that, too, because we do have control over our life. We have do have control over our relationships. And I think that relationships, our love, are one thing that we feel very out of control about. And I want to put the control back in people's laps, back into the. You get to decide who we choose. You get to decide who plays a
role in your life. And if they get to continue playing a role in your life, we have a lot more choices than we think we do when it comes to love. Absolutely. I can't get this out of my head. Please don't kill me for saying this. I feel like we should have a tagline at some point of turn your dumpster fire into a dumpster romance, and I'm just putting it out there. Somebody make that t shirt for us, please. That would be great. Yeah. One of my ladies, a long time ago, actually secretly
wrote romance novels for fun. And she's like, I'm gonna write one for you called dumpster Love. And I was like, aw, that damn insulting. And down in the dumpster all the exact same moment. So, Isabel, I'm gonna ask you a question really fast. What do you think is the number one mistake that people learn from rom coms or, like, the number one unhealthy thing that you see people learn
that's hurting more than helping? What do you think it is? I think it's the impression that a huge obstacle or a huge fight can be resolved with one short, sweet conversation that ends with a kiss. And that's it. And these big ruptures that happen in relationships have to be healed over time. And there's many conversations where people don't feel like anything is healed and it hasn't gotten better until they get to that point of getting through it and past it. And so I
think that is the worst message. It's always at the very end when the couple comes back together, bad things have happened, but they just forgive each other and they're fine. And that's not what happens in real life. It isn't? That drives me crazy, right? Oh, I'm sure it does. And the thing is, not only that, some of the things that we see happen are so big, there's no way that just a. But I love you. Oh, and I love you. Okay. We're good. In the back of your mind, going to be thinking,
right? Wait, is that ever going to happen again? That is a terrible thing that we learn, is that. And I'm even going to just take what you said and make it that it's breezy, that it's easy, right? That even when major obstacles come out, because if it's the right person, if it's the one, if it's your soulmate, it'll just work out. You'll be able to work it out. You'll both be able to see and understand and hear each other and get each
other, and you'll just be able to solve it. And if you don't, then they're not the right person, and you just need to move on. And that's not necessarily true. So, for you, what's the worst message for you that people take from rom coms, the most prevalent, the most damaging. My biggest thing that drives me crazy is honestly not understanding love. Now, I know that's gonna be such a weird thing to say and such a thing that people are like, I'm
sorry, what? But one of my biggest things that I teach is that we are all out there looking for love every day. Yet for a thousand people, they have a thousand different ideas of what love is. How do we find and better yet, create something if we all have a different idea of what it is? So I actually do a ton of research. I am a big believer. Doctor Barbara Fredrickson did a great book called Love 2.0 a couple years ago, and it blew
my mind. And the basic concept behind it was this. And the concept was that love is an emotion just like joy, just like anger, just like everything else. And emotions actually only last for about 90 seconds, which nobody likes. To hear, but that instead of falling in love or finding love and trying to hold onto it tight and keep it forever, I teach people to create relationships where love can be felt every day. I teach people how to be partners so that you can
keep having love coming day after day after day. So for me, just this idea that people fall in love and that it's going to be for happily ever after without any work, without any energy like that, it's just going to work out drives me nutso in the buttso because it's just untrue. It's just untrue. That's not the way love even works. And so my biggest frustration is when I talk about my relationship with Danny, particularly, women will say to me instantly, like,
where did you meet him? Like, that's the answer. Like, there's an island where you have to go hunt for your person. And once you find them, then you're good, right? You're one of the lucky ones. And what I want to change the conversation is, how did you create this? How did you both get to know each other in a slow and thoughtful way, that you could show up, that you could ask for what you needed, that you could teach that person how to treat you and build
something beautiful where love could be there every day. I just think that we're really not doing this right and it's hurting us at this point. It's 2024. We can do better. There are like self flying cars around the corner, but yet we still believe in fairy tales and magic when it comes to love. I believe that love is obtainable for everybody if we know how to create a relationship to get it. Yes, that's your end. And then how to sustain the relationship once
you have it is my end. And between the two of us, we're going to help every single listener, every single person sustain love. Okay, so quickly, what to expect from us, this podcast? First of all, we're going to do weekly episodes. We're going to do them every Wednesday. The first week, we're going to have a couple more. So you guys can just dive in with us and get to know what we're doing here.
And we will grow and evolve. This will change. We've already started a community, but we want this to be not just us, but people helping us weigh in on what movies you want to see. What do you want to learn? Where do you get stuck that we can help you see through a rom.com or through a romantic drama or a limited series? We're going to open that up to other things. I know Bridgerton's coming out soon. We might want to talk about that. If we have any Bridgerton Bridgerton fans out
there. What else can they expect from us? Isabel, I think we have sat up front. Swearing is going to be a part of this because Kira cannot help herself, and I've mostly trained it out of myself, but I'm sure I'm going to swear, too. And along with that, a lot of white hearts and ridiculousness. This is going to be fun. We're going to have personal stories. It's going to be humorous. It's going to be relatable in that way. It should be a good time had by all.
And down the line, we're going to have live events where people can interact with us, ask us questions. Maybe we could watch movies together and analyze them as they're unfolding with people. There'll be a lot of chance people to get to know us and interact with us and really help build this community of people who love rom coms and want to take the right lessons from them. So if you guys like this idea, you can subscribe, you can follow us. We're actually on Instagram, we're on TikTok, we're on
YouTube, and we also have a free community on Facebook. I know not everybody's a Facebook fan, but we're going to be there. We're going to be doing weekly trivia. We're going to be asking for you guys to. To suggest new videos or new rom coms for us so that everybody's part of the conversation, because we don't want this to just be us. Isabel, will you tell everybody what our first movie is going to be? Our first movie is going to be titled sky in ten days, which is just
a classic, and there's so much to talk about. It's going to be a fantastic way to kick off the podcast. Who does not love Matthew McConaughey? Kate Hudson's perfect in this. We have so many thoughts. All right, everybody, that is our intro episode. And if you loved what we shared here, the next episode is already live. How to lose a guy in ten days. And we also already have. You've got mail. So sit back, listen, and enjoy.
Don't forget, if you're loving this, if you want to make sure you never miss any of our episodes going forward, make sure you subscribe. And if you love to dig in deep. If you want to talk about these episodes, if you want to meet other people who are also interested in learning more about life and love, join us in the rom.com rescue podcast community on Facebook. You can learn everything you need to know and listen to episodes and find out more on romcomrescue.com.
So go grab your love fern and meet us on over at how to lose a guy in ten days. See you there.