It's episode 50, Therapy Natters is officially quinquagenarian. Is that the word , which means that the Therapy Natters podcast is gonna be. It's, it's a year old now. Well, actually, the, the, the pilot episode of this went out to my patrons on Valentine's Day last year. So it is officially a year old. Really? We just haven't done 52 episodes yet. How are you Fiona? Are you feeling like a, a, a quinquagenarian? you just made that word up? No, it's a real word.
I did Google it cause I thought it was Quinta, but it's not. It's quinquagenarian. Just to be weird. I just, if well, I'll just stick with 50 or half a century. That'll do, but no, I cannot believe it. No, I really can't. It's gone so quickly and we've still we talked about doing this forever. on our list. Yeah. We're never gonna stop talking about this. Are we? Plenty still to go. Yeah, I put a little post out to my patrons on Patreon to say whether it be in episode 50, we want to do things
about being 50 . Do you have any comments or questions? Because it was, it was Jack, was it Jack or Greg that said, Hey, you should do something about, you should have a party or something Yeah. I can't remember which one it was, but somebody did. Yes. Yeah. And that led us to think about midlife. Yes. And that famous phrase of a midlife crisis. No one talks about a, a midlife existential satisfaction. Do they? Why not? Shouldn't that be our focus?
That the, the middle of our life goes, ah, this is nice. The kids have gone off to uni. I can do what I like. I've got more space. I can make more noise. Whoop whoop. Ooh. Is that what it is? Is that what causes it? Now that people have got more time, they've got more time to think, and they go, oh, oh dear. And then they're full of regret, You are going off down a path, aren't you?
And then you took a turn because it, I think you probably, you know, at that point kids go to the university and you've got more time, you are at crossroads or a fork in the road. That would be better and you can choose which way you go. I would think I've certainly personally mostly gone down the positive route, although, There are some puddles on the road and some hills and rocky bits and potholes. You know, it's not a smooth road, but definitely positive sometimes the, wind blows you over.
That's what I think of sometimes that sometimes you're leaning into the wind and every step's a little bit harder, and sometimes the wind is pushing you forwards and you're like, where am I going? Where am I going? It's just pushing me, oh, where am I going? I'm outta control. But yeah, you're right. There isn't a phrase or not that I'm aware of for everything going really well and exciting in midlife. We, we should make one up. Yeah. We should all be celebrating the midlife opportunities.
If we go back to the term, the midlife crisis, which was coined in the sixties by a Pschoanalyst called Elliot Jakes, and He noted that there were people in their mid to late thirties that seemed to go through this sort of depressive period and, oh, hang on. Didn't we always used to say that life begins at 40? Do you remember? We don't say that anymore, do we? People tend to use it now to say, oh, we used to say life, but now it begins at 50, or now it begins at 60.
Yes. But that was, I wonder where that phrase came from. Who said that Oh, life begins at 40. I dunno, that's an old one.
I'll let you Google that while I have a little natter about it because I think cause it obviously goes back quite away, it would've been a time when people took 20 year mortgages out when they were 18 and by the time they were 40, the mortgage was paid off and the kids have flown the nest and yeah, life begins and they're young enough and fit enough to be able to do all the things that they want to do.
Maybe it was about women going back into the workplace once the kids grew up because there was a culture in up until recently where once the mum became a mum, She didn't work. Maybe she had a part-time job in a cake shop or something like that. And we, I mean, I smile at that now, the idea that I would say ever say to my wife, wait, why don't you just get a part-time job in a cake shop? Cuz that's what mums do, isn't it? And I'm from a working class background.
Both my parents worked and my mom particularly, I think had two jobs on the go quite often. But , for a lot of people in other cultures, in other, say the middle of class women didn't work and they probably did get into their forties and that's when the female equivalent of a midlife crisis kicks in. And I say the female equivalent because one of my listeners wrote in to say something along the lines of, I'll read it out actually cause I've got it just here. It was Peter. Hello Peter.
He says, is the midlife crisis mostly a male thing? I don't hear the concept talked about in relation to women very often, if at all. If so, why? Is it that women are more resilient to it? We can pick that apart. You can write a dissertation on, on that and the patriarchy. we certainly could. And just to go back to the phrase, it was a book written by Probably a man Walter B Pitkin. Yep. bloody knew it. Well, presumably called Walter Walter B Pitkin in 1932.
It's a self-help book, Wow. And written during the time of a rapid increase in life expectancy. So at that time, it was around about 60 life expectancy. It had been about 40, 50 years before. yeah, so that's where it came from. Oh, it does say here, I'm only on Wikipedia, but it does say he did not necessarily coin the phrase, life begins at 40, but the book brought it into popular culture.
Hmm. There's also something about a 1980 John Lennon song, which is rather sad considering that, that he died at 42. yeah. The I'm not quite sure about that, but yeah. As to women and men, I mean, I, am from the, group where women didn't tend to work. So my mother stopped work when she got married. Not even when she had children. She stopped work when she got married. And she did go through a crisis when my brother and I left home. because that was half of her role suddenly gone.
Cause we left at the same time. We went to university the same time. So that wasn't very considerate of us. But yeah, I think, you know, these things, these things do vary. But we also had the question from Bernadette, which I think we should bring in cuz it's quite interesting. Why do we call it a crisis? Does panic really set in or is it a stage of life when we wake up and commit to do things we know we won't be able to do in the near future for fear of physical limitation.
We spend on fast cars because we can, when we just don't care about what people think or take any more nonsense. that's going back to what you started off with, the positives, and I think there's an element here of. if it's, if it's just a behavior because you now can, so you can afford a fast car now that you couldn't afford before, then that's not a crisis.
And I suppose it's a crisis when there's some element of psychological distress associated with it or trying to fix some level of psychological distress. Hmm. Changes of behavior, changes of life, that sort of thing, isn't it? That's what we're really looking at. Cause if this, if the, the fast car, the, the motorbike or the, the new house or the affair or whatever it is, if that was food or alcohol that somebody was using as a distraction from some sort of internal angst.
And we'd go, yeah, this is a problem. You're doing something. In order to mask a feeling, you need to look at the feeling and find out what's your unconscious mind trying to tell you through your body. It's trying to tell you something. Listen. But if we're not very good at listening to our body, listening to our emotions, then we get scared. and that can lead to what we now call a crisis. maybe like we say, an existential crisis.
Cuz now I'm getting these signals from my body that says, you full of regret, aren't you? We don't, we might not call it regret, we just go, oh, I feel anxious, or I feeling impatient, or I'm fed up. I just want more. And if you look beneath it, I mean it's easier with the therapist, but you can look beneath it yourself and go, what is really going on? Oh, it's regret. I'm feeling very nostalgic for my youth. I wish I had hair again.
I don't, I mean, I'm quite, I quite embrace losing my hair and I literally shaved my head about five minutes ago while I was waiting for, for us to start recording this. Cause I've got a little head shave, a little school shaver thing, just roll around. So every couple of days I'll give that a go because, well, what's the point in gonna, the hairdressers, there's nothing to cut back to Bernadette.
Sorry, She, has linked a few things here though that she says doing things we know we won't be able to do in the near future for fear of physical limitation. Well, that doesn't apply to a fast car cuz Well, there will be a time when you can't drive a fast car. Most people at some point have to stop driving because of limitations and, Yeah. That's. That's another form of crisis in a way of accepting that, which sometimes people don't accept it soon enough.
Which is . That's, was an interesting face you pulled then well, you talking about yourself? no, I'm nowhere near that cheek but I, there was a, it's great. Hey, let me, I'll, I'll, I'll challenge you on that to a degree because most people, when they get into their fifties, and I, it's, it's a long way off for me, but I, I notice it now. Let alone, my friends who are older than me. Driving at night, That starts to become a limitation. I've got a friend, actually he's 50.
Oh, happy birthday Paul. When this comes out, he'd just turned 50. Hey. Hi. And his partner is a little older and she's been saying for a few years. Paul, if we go out, can I drive there. And you drive back and he's like, but we're going out with Richard for beers. I really don't wanna drive when I'm on the way back. Oh, okay. a good excuse for her then if she's saying it's because she doesn't like driving in the dark. And I might, I might make that excuse.
And I have had that, I have had that feeling of driving in the dark. But I think it's, at the moment still for me, it's more that I just don't do it. So it's different that I'm outta the habit, whereas I used to do it when I was running the kids around everywhere, it was, it was a common thing to do. But yeah, I do think that that does come in. But no, my the face I made was um, somebody who is no longer with us, so I won't identify them, but they are no longer here.
Who did carry on driving longer than should have for everybody's safety. It was all right, but it was not like your head. It was hairy. Right. Okay. But anyway so that's another tangent we've gone off down. But there are some things that people do do as part of a midlife plan or a retirement plan of doing things. We'll do it now because we can, and we might not be able earlier, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a crisis.
I mean, I'm vaguely contemplating the idea of going around the world without flying. OSH around the world in 80 days. well that's, I mean, you can do that. There's a cruise now. You can do a around the world in 80 days cruise. But that's not really what I'm thinking. I'm thinking of doing it a little bit more independently. But my life circumstances don't allow it now. But I'm thinking ahead. Yeah, maybe I'd like to do that cuz I've never been able to do it. Circumstances have never allowed it.
But that's not, that's not a crisis. That's just a, that would be fun, wouldn't it? There's a lot of extra responsibilities that come. As well. It's not just about, oh, now I've got more time cuz my children are older. At the same time as that, maybe you start to feel a little bit of freedom, but maybe that's when we have to start looking after aging parents, cuz that comes up in therapy a lot for people. They were expecting to be able to relax in their fifties.
and now they're having to work harder, especially if they're an only child or they're closer to their parents than their siblings are. Yeah, I hear that story quite a lot. I know that that's therapy. People bring the things into therapy that are difficult. But that comes up a lot because modern medicine, we're all living that little bit longer. We are picking up conditions earlier and there's lots of medication to, to help prevent those things getting worse.
But we still get older we almost revert, don't we? We looked after our kids and then they're gonna have to look after us. That does. When I went to school reunion, which I think I mentioned on here at the time, just a few months ago it was so common just talking to people. It was one of the first things that people were saying, what's happening with your parents? And so many of us were in that position of having to care for parents. Yeah. Very, very common.
But then there's the extra stage of when parents depart and you become, which I haven't got to. Because one of mine's gone and one's still here. Still got my father. and I've seen this, you get to the point where, oh, crikey I'm the, I'm the older one. I'm the one who sits at the head of the table. I'm the head of the family I'm the next generation to go, which leads to existential angst of, can't avoid the idea of death.
Because it's me next people will think about the typical idea of somebody having a midlife crisis is a man getting a new fast car and acting younger than he is, and I think. Whether it's true or not, it gives the impression that you're trying to run away from the aging process rather than embracing it. Cuz not everybody wants to embrace the idea of, getting older. ask me again in 20 years time, but the minute, age 47. I've got no problems with it at all. The idea of being 57.
67, okay, I expect I'm gonna be walking a little bit slower and I'm not gonna have quite the core strength that I've got right now, but I'm the optimistic realist who says, but everything will be okay. and if it's not okay, I'll do my best. And I can't do any more than that now. Like I say, ask me again in 10 years time when I'm, when I'm 57, and I might well be thinking, oh no, but what's next? Rather than thinking, oh, great, look what I've achieved.
Look at all the things that have happened to me. Look at all these friends I've made over the years. Look at all this fun that I've had, and maybe. bit of privilege that I've got there. I know not everybody will have had great experiences in their life. Maybe they won't have done because their partners had a midlife crisis and spent all their money on cars. It does come down well, partly comes down to therefore choice again, doesn't it?
That you can choose to see things in different ways and focus on different things. Cuz you mentioned about regrets earlier. It could be that somebody who is ripe for a mid life crisis has not done the things that they wish they had done for whatever reason. And. if they then in that stage of regret, it could escalate into that panic that Bernadette used the word panic of, oh my God, I've got to do something now, or it's too late.
as opposed to looking at that feeling of regret and recognizing it and accepting it. That, yeah, I wish I'd done that. , but nevermind, eh, there are lots of things we can regret if that's where our focus is, and like I say, we are back to choice, it might not feel that we've got a choice, cuz we've got a feeling in our body that says you are frustrated and it's about regret because you always wished you'd done that or gone there or had that experience.
Oh. The only reason we know that those things exist is because of exposure to the idea. Well, if you'd never had exposure to the idea of going around the world and having those sorts of experiences or that those fast cars exist, you wouldn't want them.
So I think as, we look back on life, then it's, you know, I, I just said a few minutes ago, I said that my life circumstances didn't allow me to travel around the world before I have done lots of travel, but I'd never been able to take the amount of time that this would take. And also I wouldn't have been able to afford it, but I could have, if I'd prioritized differently. if I'd decided, as you know, quite a lot of people do now, but it wasn't such a thing when I was at that age.
But they take their gap year and, and travel and save up and go and take months traveling around the world. But I didn't prioritize that. So life circumstances I could have, but I chose not to. But that still doesn't make it a crisis in this circumstance. But it could if you took the choice, made the choice of thinking I should have done such and such. The other one that we've sort of skirted over a bit, but I don't think we really should skirt over it, is the affair thing.
that sort of midlife crisis when perhaps the relationship has gone a bit stale just because. Old and maybe there's been a bit of taking things for granted, too busy, occupied with the children and jobs and so on. And then maybe this stereotypically, but the children leave home and then it's a, oh, what Now we are just going to sit here watching TV and asking what's for dinner for the rest of our lives.
And. Then there can certainly be a feeling of missing out or I've missed out on the excitement of relationships and thinking back, I mean, I've heard this so many times in the therapy room of, you know, I remember that feeling of excitement of a new relationship, but I'm never gonna have that again. And so that can be a problem and of course, what people want is to feel excited and at the same time, cuz we're humans, we crave intimacy and we need to look at that feeling.
Your emotions are telling you something. Look at it, examine that, and then think about it and talk about it. You can take it to therapy, but it's probably best to talk about it with your partner. What's probably not a good idea is to say, Hey, I'm thinking of having an affair. I need some excitement in my life. That's not a great way to start a conversation. I'd leave that bit out if I were you uh, monsters lead that way. But, and, and maybe that's when it's okay to lie by omission.
But you tell the truth in that I'm feeling frustrated. I'm feeling that I'm missing out on stuff I want some excitement. It's a conversation to have, yeah, I mean, have that conversation of, okay, let's take this stereotypical example of we've just been using of the kids of left home. You sat there watching the tv.
discuss the fact, okay, we've got all this time now where we are not fighting the kids for the remote control and we are not having to yell at them to come down for dinner and sort out what they're doing at school and taking them everywhere. Oh, we've got all this time. What can we do together now that we couldn't do together before? How can we be together now in a different way? It's just a different phase.
again, stereotypically, you know, the the couple would've got together and had their time on their own, gradually getting to know each other, getting more and more serious, and then, finally settling down and living together and then having children. Different phases. It's just a different phase, but it needs to be discussed, needs to be acted upon and not ignored. Mm-hmm. I wonder why people do find it so difficult to talk about the way that they feel like this.
What's going on in our culture that stops us having these conversations with our partner that says, this is how I feel. Very odd but then if, if people were great at that, they wouldn't need a therapist and we'd be out of a job, which is fine. I'll just do something else long for a world where people don't need therapy. It's not happening anytime soon. Unfortunately. I think, you know, you asked a question why?
Well, partly, hopefully it's because they don't want to hurt the other partner, and if you are still in a relationship where you really care and don't want to hurt the other person, so you're not gonna say, oh, I, I'm thinking of having an affair. because that would hurt the other person then it's quite tricky in most people, I'd say aren't that good at expressing themselves in a way that's I mean, I'm exaggerating probably, but the way that's clear and that they are sure is not going to upset.
But then is that ever going to not upset if it was exactly that? I don. Hmm. So what advice would we give somebody who is starting to feel that frustration or that sense that time is running out? Maybe some sense of regret or some nostalgia for their youth. Well, we're not supposed to give advice. Richard Well, we're not to our clients, no Um, Although we do, so cop out, great it, yeah, it, it absolutely is. There's a myth that we don't give our clients advice in therapy. We do.
It just depends what they bring into therapy. We're not gonna say, a as often happens, people will talk about the problems in their relationship. It's not for us to go, oh yeah, you need to leave her. Well, it's dreadful. Yeah, you're better off without. What, no, we don't do that. But if somebody comes to us and says, these are the, these are the things that are going on in my life we do give advice. We would say, have you tried this? It might be a good idea to do that.
If somebody's not sleeping very well, but they live on espresso, switch to decaf, you might find you have a better night's sleep. Uh, Yeah. I suppose we could. Yeah, we do give advice, but we just don't tell people what to do. That's not what we are there to do. Yeah, I mean, the purest person-centered therapist wouldn't even go there, but. we still do anyway, even the purest sort of does because they will be reflecting back certain portions of what is said rather than other portions.
So it's, it's still, it's, it's impossible unless you said nothing. Well, basically then even if they're looking at you, they'd still get some response. So basically, unless weren't there unless they were talking to nobody. we, we are all giving some sort of feedback to the clients. Otherwise, all we'll we doing is just shuffling a tarot deck and pulling something out and going, ah. Then they look at it and go, oh, I think I know what that means to me. Okay, shuffle it again.
Pull out another one. And those things are useful, whether it's because of the universe making the right card appear, or it's just interpretation. If you need something to help point you in the right direction, even though it's you, yourself, that is giving you the instructions because there's a sign. That tells you something, but listen to what that means. And I saw a feather. I saw a feather float down, and it reminded me of this. It was a sign to do that.
While that sign came from you, from your desires, your inner needs. Examine that. Make sure that you, you're doing things for the right reasons. Because our body can't always be trusted to give us the right information. I, I've said this a few times, so I apologies if I'm repeating myself cause I forget all the different places where I publish the, the different things that I say and where I say them. But a lot of people can't trust their gut instinct.
They've got this feeling and it, it's urging them to do something. They might not be able to trust it, cuz that gut instinct might be broken. It might come from, I don't know, a common one that we, we find as therapists is that somebody's got a feeling that other people can't be trusted so that they need to pull away from everybody and be alone. Examine that. That feeling might not be true.
That could be a feeling that belongs 40 years in the past with some traumas that you are still in the shadow of that. Every time you've, you've been mistreated or been rejected, this, the monolith in your life just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And the shadow it casts gets wider and longer, and it's hard to step out of that shadow. Well until you see what's causing the shadow.
you dunno which direction to actually look to step out of it, to then stand in the sun and go, okay, I can see and feel and think more clearly. Now there's a nice metaphor for you. You can have that one for free. But going back to the advice Question, which I don't want to shirk.
I think the first thing is to allow yourself to feel it, which we have said before, and recognize that it's okay and it's normal and that life has phases and transitioning from one phase to another is sometimes going to be tricky or thought provoking or emotion provoking, which is okay cuz that's just what happens. And then be open to thinking about it and talking about it to whoever is most appropriate to talk about it with. Mm-hmm. And then you can work through. Sounds easier, doesn't it?
It's easier said than done. It's quicker to say it. Actually doing it might lead to some sleepless nights or some wakeful times in the early hours. And if you've gotta think about it, think about it like we say about sleep before, it's okay to be awake, but don't be frustrated about being awake because the frustration leads to more sleeplessness, more anxiety. to a degree, be okay with being awake. Think about it.
Think about what's really going on, because then you might be able to make some changes, but it might be that you make healthy changes because it might be that you do move house because you wants somewhere smaller or even somewhere bigger because your aging parents in five years time might be moving in with you. Who knows? Make some changes if. Want to, but it needs to be thought about and talked about and given some consideration rather than reactive knee jerk.
I feel bad, so I need to make a change. Now. Quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, less haste, more speed. Things can happen, but they've gotta be done in the right way for you. whatever that means to you. That's favorite Latin phrases. Yeah. Hurry up slowly, Yeah. Hurry up slowly. because then you've got time to think. Rather than just reacting to everything, just cuz you can buy a Harley Davidson cuz your credit rating's decent now.
For, for the first time ever, mainly doesn't mean you have to go out and buy one, but maybe it's the right thing to do. Maybe Or maybe, maybe you could, maybe you could. Go and drive over Harley Davidson across Route 66 instead. Yeah. Depends why you want it. Depends why you want it. Just thinking of my, my brother-in-law, he, he bought a Harley and I think at the time a lot of the family did look at him and go, is this a midlife crisis? What's going on here, mate?
and in doing so, he met a lot of people through a fan club, made a lot of new friends.
And now runs a a Harley Sportster Fan Club group, which is nationally renowned, and he's probably the best thing that's ever happened to both him and the sportster community, bringing all these people together to go upon meets hundreds of riders, thousands of people talking to each other, all talking about their mental health and talking about supporting each other and all the different things that go with it and fair play to him.
You know, he's, he's done really well to manage all of that, and it's become his life. If you ask him how he is, how are you? Oh, the bike. Oh, it's fine. I didn't ask him about the bike, but it's always on his mind and it could easily have been thought of at the time as a midlife crisis that, oh, this is just ridiculous. What are you doing that for? buying a Harley, what are you doing? He did the best thing that ever happened to him, I think.
I suppose that does uh, add an extra dimension to this is it's up to you to determine whether it's a crisis or not. And so don't let others make that determination for you. Yeah. Always look at what's going on underneath and make sure you are doing the right thing for you. What is it that that all of you wants? Like last week we were talking about the parts of us. That's a part of us that wants to, wants to be a child, and there's a part of us that wants to be adult and smart and responsible.
There's a part that wants to play and there's a part that wants to be academic. For example, thinking to myself there, I mean the play part of me takes over dominates, but we're all made up of all these parts. We wanna make sure that all those parts are getting their needs met, not just one part of you. All parts of you are getting as much of your needs as possible met, and you're not just letting one dominate. Right. Well, happy 50th Therapy Natters.
It is happy birthday to us Yes, Well, we better go cuz we can't keep doing this for hours on end. So we'll be back next week with another topic which we haven't thought about yet. We'll have to have a look through the questions, but do keep on sending them in even if you want to follow up on this episode. If you've got any topic ideas or questions, fire them away at us. The link to send us a message is in the show note description below. As always, right. Love you and leave you folks.
Have a super week. Bye. See you next time.