Hi there, everybody, another week, another chance to natter about something with my supervisor, Fiona, that we wouldn't normally make this time to natter about. So thanks for listening everybody and giving me the chance to do this. If you don't already know me, I'm psychotherapist Richard Nicholls and with me is fellow psychotherapist, Fiona, Biddle. Hello Fiona. Welcome to a new episode.
Hi Richard. How are you doing?
Sound as a pound. What you been up to this week?
Well, I'm a little bit tired this week cause I haven't been sleeping very well due to
Ooh
a visit from. A little or maybe not so little furry thing who decided that he wants to make my house his home. And it's been rather distracting in the night because he's been running up and down the ceiling above my bed. So it's been
so this isn't a, this isn't a fox in your garden then
I don't think it's a fox in my garden. I have not actually seen this creature. I think a fox would struggle to get into the kitchen drawers that he has got into to eat my food.
this is definitely rodent then.
It is a rodent. Yes, and I had a, I had a man come to find out and he says it's a juvenile rat.
Okay. And you can tell that from doing a sort of a Gillian McKeith thing and staring at its poo.
I think it is. Yes. I think that. is how he determined it. Last evening, he was that's the rat, not the guy was in the kitchen and I could hear him in the drawer. I knew he was in there. I couldn't bring myself to open the drawer to, to beat him. So we have not actually become acquainted. And there was no noise last night from my ceiling. So maybe he has now departed following
or maybe it's got the hint, it's got the hint. And, and it's, and it's ran off to join his friends in rat land
I have, I have had a few conversations, one sided conversations, but I have had conversations with him about
I'm glad they're one sided, Fiona. Otherwise, we might have to have words
we, we might, yes. Um, He, he, no, he hasn't, he hasn't replied, but I've said, you know, it's okay that you've had this, this food as I didn't really want those stock cubes and those oats. It's okay. But now could you, could you go somewhere else please?
And one way or another it did, and possibly it's just gone to find a new home with its little rat friends. Or, or maybe sadly, it has joined the choir invisible and no longer exists.
We just do not know, but yes.
no. We're gonna follow on from last weeks episode because we had quite a lot to talk about and we didn't get through it all. So we are gonna carry on with a similar sort of topic, I think from what we were saying.
So yeah, last week we were talking about um, TA drivers. the things that we're told to be so hurry up and be perfect and so on. This is a related theory called injunctions, which are things that we are not supposed to be. So sentences that start with don't and thinking of rats Rats that we generally speaking do not want to have running around our homes. The first of these, which is actually very profound. I mean, we're making light of it, thinking of rats, but it is actually Don't Exist.
And if you just even just begin to feel what it could be like to have. An injunction. So this is put on from the outside or interpreted from outside sources that you shouldn't even be here, you should not exist. And of course the extreme of that leads to a suicidal personality, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that extreme and. all of these will be set up in childhood. That's part of the, theories they're set up as we are children.
There could even be a little element of this for people who were told that, for example, that they were conceived as an accident. Uh, And that's one that I mean, It's often said in a sort of jokey way, you are A happy accident. But some people, and I've I've had this with clients that they've, at some level, maybe not at a conscious level, consciously, they know that they're loved and that they welcomed and they're part of everything. But at some level, they've got that Don't Exist going on.
Mm. I've certainly heard that story quite a few times often the stories I get told it's about the Mums, but I guess Dad's I'm gonna have a similar experience. Maybe because of their mental health. They will say things to their children when they're young. I wish I hadn't had you. They'll say that phrase. they might be under the influence of something, whether it's under the influence of their mental health issues or the under the influence of alcohol.
They're under the influence of something and they say, you know, don't have kids. It ruins your life. You think, why you, your mum said that to you?
Yeah. Yeah.
no.
it does happen and it's sort of, oh, I should never have had kids. Look, look what I'd be doing if I hadn't had you. You're the bane of my life. I'm a terrible mother stroke father. And so I would've been better off without you. Yeah, it's, it's hard. Some of the things that people do get told.
for you, just that phrase, if it wasn't for you, and then you're filling the gap there. , you say that to somebody even as an adult, and that feels quite critical, quite judgmental. Say that to a child and that's when their personality is being formed, where they fit in in the world, and they're gonna take on that. Don't Exist, Don't Be Schema. Injunctions, you know, these things are set up when people are very young and figuring themselves out.
But some people can have a, a decent enough childhood, but throughout their adult life, maybe through difficult relationships, they try to be invisible. Maybe they have a partner that they have to walk on eggshells around and their existence over time becomes an embarrassment to them as if I shouldn't exist. I shouldn't be seen. Don't be seen. I guess that's an injunction, isn't it? Don't be seen. But yeah, that's further down the list. I will talk about that.
I think it's more profound when it starts as a child, cuz it becomes your identity of Don't Be, but even as an adult we can pick up on these things we're, we're humans. Our personality isn't necessarily set in stone and if it was we wouldn't have a job cause we help people to try and change these things. So I guess they can develop these as adults as well. Even if the foundations as a child were pretty good.
I mean, we know from lots of twin studies, twin research that personality and our mental health traits, it's 50 50. Nature and nurture. Some of it is genetic. It's just you have a predisposition to these certain feelings and can have a decent childhood, but you've still got the predisposition to anxiety or depression, but it doesn't get switched on until you're an adult when you've had some difficult life experiences maybe.
As we've been talking, I, I'm just aware that there could be people listening who are going Oh, crikey. I've said that to my children probably on the sort of jokey side of you were an
Or the happy accident thing. Yeah.
more likely that, but it could be could be more than that. If that is the case, I'd just like to encourage you to just talk to your child and explain and, and, and help them. They, they might be still children, they might be adults, but just talk to them and make it clear what you really do mean and help them to, process that so it's not lingering. That can be done.
It's one thing to say, I wish I hadn't had kids. It was really difficult time for me. And if you realize oh that could be taken in a painful way, you can follow that up later with, you know, I said the other week that I wish I'd never had kids and meant to add on to the end then that, Hmm. How would you say it, you
start with, I love you
You Yes. Yeah. And it is worth. Or you are worth it. Yes, having children is difficult, but you are worth it. You're worth going through that difficulty for, because having children is difficult. It is because there's all the extra pressure that gets put on somebody. And sadly, I wrote about this in my book, going through some studies, some research into the happiness levels, the wellbeing levels of people with and without children. And actually the, the ones without children are happier.
So if you're gonna follow the happiness research in the short term, don't have children. But in the long term you find that parents, it takes a few years, their wellbeing does return to what it was before they had children. you can measure the wellbeing of somebody before they have children, and then immediately afterwards and their wellbeing is slumped.
The happiness levels have dropped, takes about five to six years to get back to how you were, your happiness levels before you had kids, just because those five years are hard. That's all. And then it can pick up a little bit for some people, but it, it's certainly not something on the list of if you want to improve your relationship or you want to be happy, you only have to have children and you're gonna be happier. That doesn't stand up to research.
I'd also say that looking back on those times, it really is so context dependent on how you're feeling. So, different occasions spring to mind when if I was asked the question, I'd have said, yeah, I'm really, really happy. And other times I'd have said absolutely not.
Yeah, I mean, you had a bad night. You've had a few bad night sleeps cuz there's been a rat running around
yeah,
Imagine if every half an hour you're waking up
that that, yeah, that relentless time. But if you were at a time when you just had a couple of hours of rest you weren't on your own with children and all's right, with the world for some of it, if you're in the state where none of it's good, then that's problematic as well. So we move onto the one on the list of these injunctions, which sort of ties in with the previous one. It's the sort of variant of it, which is Don't Be You.
And I would pretty much say that everybody has this to a certain extent because society does try to mold people into well into conforming. So a lot of people will have their little eccentricities judged. But one critical form of this would be parents again who have a child of a gender that's not the one that they wanted to have. I know I have said this to my boys, but I'm able to say it in a way that's very supportive of them because before I had children I wanted girls. And I got boys.
My brother wanted boys and got girls. But both of us are absolutely thrilled with what we got that, you know, so, but that's, that's the difference. If I wasn't, if I'd spent all these years, there's a lot of them wishing that they were girls, then that would be rubbing off on them as being Don't be what you are. Of course, this also applies with or can not, obviously always, but can apply to sexuality. You remember ages ago we had that episode, didn't we?
Very early on about is it okay to be gay? Cause the person who was asking the question was, was being told he's not right as himself and he should be something else.
Yeah. And sometimes, they see their children as little extensions of themselves and they want their children to turn into them, and they. not them. Your children are somebody else completely. They might be inspired by you, but they're figuring out who they are and to think that they have to follow in your footsteps. if that's the message that's being put out there day after day, week after week while they're growing up, it is gonna give them that feeling of being me is wrong.
I need to be like them. Me. There's something wrong with me and yeah, not a nice message to feel in your body.
And I think these days there's an awful lot more acceptance of being yourself. It's sort of considered to be a good thing in most circumstances, but there would still be circumstances where it's not. I mean, I don't know much about the military, but I would expect that still there is an element of not being yourself in the military, because that's sort of how it works. But if you're working in a, let's say you're working in a call center. And you're not allowed to be yourself.
That's, that's not right, is it? I mean, it's good to have some, some personality, but you still have to do the job. So you still have to conform to those degrees. But that's, that is part of living in society that we all have to conform to a certain degree.
We do even as therapists to a degree, but therapists listening cuz I know therapists do. What's important is that we are ourselves in the therapy room. That we are congruent. There's, there's nothing about us that is false or fake because clients will pick up on that.
And that's why it's important for therapists to make sure that if they've got any of these injunctions kicking around or they've got anything that a client might bring in, if that, if we've got something similar, we need to work on that. Cuz if a client comes in with the same issue that we've got, we need to know, yeah, I can help them because I've worked on this issue myself and maybe even self-disclose.
We always say with self-disclosure that as a therapist, you only do that if it's specifically going to help the client. And it's the best way to help the client, but it can be. So yeah. An another form of this Don't Be You, is about the physical body that with social media, particularly Instagram, I would say that is telling people. What they should be physically. And that gives that message of Don't Be whatever it is,
Yeah,
which can lead to all sorts of problems, including sort of addiction to cosmetic surgery and.
yeah. It's one thing to see cuz fashions will come and go and all of us are gonna look back at our, our past as decades go on and see photos of ourselves and go, what was I wearing? Look, I'm have, I got an earring in. I used to wear an earring back in the day. I wouldn't do it now. It wouldn't suit me, but fashions change. I used to have a, oh yeah, it had a cross on it. , and I wore a gold bracelet. It was not, yeah, it wouldn't suit me anymore. I'd just look daft. That's easily changed.
But if we've got this need to change our body, I mean, I've got a couple of tattoos. I don't necessarily regret them that one of them particularly hasn't stood the test of time. Cause it's very nineties and I do look at that and go, oh, that needs some color in it. That's just black. That sort of 1990s, fashion of just these black tribal tattoos. Yeah, I got one of those, like a lot of blokes did in the nineties, and I'm accepting of that and go it is what it is.
It's, it's, but that's only small. It takes up an arm, you know, it's not a big deal. But to change your, your entire face as cosmetic surgery can do, and there's no going back from that. Yeah. That's not a fashion thing that's, that can be painful, physically painful, as well as emotionally painful when, oh, I still don't feel right. I still have that background injunction that says, Don't Be You cause you still carry you cosmetic surgery or tattoos or new hats.
You're still gonna be you, you still take you with you wherever you go. And that
wherever you go.
be there.
so the next one is, Don't Be A Child.
Have you met me?
I wasn't
I wonder if if I was encouraged to be a child. Cause I've not really grown up.
Well, there's a, there's a contrasting one, which is Don't Grow Up. And I, I saw somebody the other day on Facebook. I think this was with a picture of their baby saying exactly that. Stop growing up. Now, I'm sure that it was just, Oh, you're so gorgeous at this phase and I love you so much. Now I don't want you to change, which is a very natural thing. And when it comes to puppies, I wish that could be the case. Cuz wouldn't it be nice if we could keep a puppy forever?
Probably, there's plenty of people listening to that going, what? No, they're much better when they're dogs. But anyway, that's beside the point. But it would tend to be that the elder child is told not to be a child cuz they're wanting the elder child to have responsibility and for the younger one to be kept as the baby so that the parents still have their baby.
But it's worth just looking out for that and seeing either whether you are putting that on your children or whether it's being put on you.
mm.
Next one. All. I love this one. Don't succeed. Don't make it. That often fits with the try hard driver, so try hard, but don't make it as, as sort of a, a way of being in the world. Any thoughts on why that might be?
Jealousy can play a part in that. That a parent can look at the successes of their child and, and maybe envious is probably the right word, that. How come they, they're having more opportunities than I had. They should have the same life that I had. And I know that probably fits in with a couple of the other injunctions as well. But there is this, I think sometimes an envy of the opportunities that the next generation gets. And some parents don't want their children to surpass them.
It also fits with what you were saying about Don't Be Visible doesn't it. Which isn't actually on the list that I've got. So it does tie in here that it's, it's a keep yourself down, stay down. Don't make a noise, don't make a fuss. Don't show off. just, be quiet.
mm
don't make too much of an impact. Don't put your head above the parapet. Stay down.
Yeah. And that that comes from place of pain. If a parent is teaching that, they're teaching that for a reason, cuz they've been hurt by having their head above the parapet. Well, I'm definitely one for sticking my head above the parapet and I've been shot at so many times.
just, just the
I mean, and it does hurt.
Just, just the other day, somebody this is just in a, a WhatsApp group. Somebody said something that I found unacceptable. Somebody else called it out and I backed him up and he then said, Thank you for putting your head above the parapet, and I just said I'm very used to having my head above the parapet. It, it, it happens a lot. Used to it. Got a tin hat. It's okay. it's not nice, but it's, to me it's better that way. But that doesn't mean that.
I mean, if everybody put their heads above the parapets, we wouldn't need a parapet.
Hmm. Yeah. What's the next one?
our next one. Well, it also fits in with that as well. Don't be important. So that leads to people having low self-esteem, cuz of course don't be important it contains the message of you are not important and, but you need to stay there. Stay there. In this list it says more often female. I can see that I was thinking sort of the office jobs where it's the imposed glass ceiling. you know, don't bother to apply for that. And that's, it's still there.
I mean, obviously nowhere near as much as it was.
Well, yeah, there's still a long way to go. Women are still seen as bossy when they're assertive and men are seen as confident,
Yep.
that is still there in our culture all these years later. The more we talk about it, the more it dilutes down, but we've still got so far to go. I saw something on Twitter a couple of days ago where somebody was they were just at work having a conversation with, with a man. And a stranger into the office walked over to the two of them and interrupted turned to the woman and said, are you the one you need to speak to about getting a flip chart? And she went, No. What makes you think that?
And the guy didn't know what to say, , because he didn't say, who would I need to speak to to organize a flip chart? Do you know? It was, are you the one that would get me a flip chart? It's not what, because, because I don't have a penis. I doubt she said that. Although actually following her stuff on Twitter, she seems to be the type that would, and I wouldn't blame her if she did
I had an example last week when I was flying home from holiday, there was a medical emergency on the plane and they did the , the call. It was quite an interesting phrase, I thought. Is there anybody who is a trained doctor or nurse on the plane? I thought trained. Do you mean you don't want somebody who plays one on television? But
Well, no, I don't want somebody who's got a PhD in economics,
it was trained. But anyway, apart from that, Two people got up, they were together. I, well, they either they were together or it was a coincidence that they were in the same row. One man, one woman, and I heard somebody person sitting next to me referred to the man as the doctor and the woman as the nurse. And there was, there was no evidence one way or other as to, they could have both been nurses. They could have both been doctors, could have been the other way around.
But it was that, it was, that presumption was there.
Yeah. It's gonna be generations
the person next to me was a woman, about 20
What
mm.
ugh!
So yeah,
definitely worth calling out
I didn't, I was gonna be sitting next to her four hours. I thought, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna question this.
And how often are girls brought up with that message that, don't make a noise. Don't be important. It's one thing to say that children should be seen and not heard. I mean, that's bad enough, but, oh, it's okay if half of the population can be seen and heard, but you can't. That's the message that girls are often given.
Yeah, and I mean, It will have changed now, but when I was at school, I mean, I'm 61 now, but when I was at school I went to an all girls school. My brother went to the all boys school over the road, and if you did some research on the technical achievement levels of our comparative classes, there'd be a big difference because theirs was all about success Success and achievement academically. And then in careers.
Ours was, you're expected to go to university and then get a, a good job until you have children and then you'd go part-time and that's really, it would dwindle off. And the jobs that were expected were much more the typical. Not as in nurses rather than doctors, but more things like teachers. Those were the sort of things that you were encouraged to go into. But anyway, let's go into the next one. We could spend a whole episode talking about that, couldn't
we could. And have you seen the time? Might have to do an extra long episode today.
Okay, so the next one is don't enjoy. So that's the sort of message that life is serious. You you shouldn't enjoy yourself, can lead to people being workaholics because all they know how to do is work. Anything that they do that's for fun has sort of negative connotation and it can lead to says here sexual dysfunction. Cause if they're not supposed to enjoy that part of life, that's a problem too.
Yeah. We don't want that running in the background of our mind. That's,
And we probably all know people who we wouldn't know that about people. Generally speaking, therapists do, but generally most normal people dunno what's going on in other people's sex lives. But we know people who struggle unless they're working. So that, that one we can see. The next one is, Don't be close.
Ah,
keep your distance don't commit. Don't be intimate. Keep away.
I think a lot of people with trust issues have got that running in the background of their mind. because I think that would fall into Don't trust as well. Don't be close. So don't let anyone in. Why? Well, they might hurt you. They might let you down. They might disappoint you. And seeing the world in such a black and white, good or bad, and that's splitting, that's that dichotomous thinking of people are either all good or all bad. And I guess there are some introverts who really enjoy.
Close knit relationships and friendships. Sure. Thrive on that. Enjoy that. Doesn't mean that you can't trust people, though. It just means that you enjoy deeper, closer things. if you're an introvert who wants that deeper, closer connection, and you've got this, Don't Be Close mantra, unconsciously running through who you are. That's gonna create a lot of anxiety cuz your desires aren't gonna match with your reality.
But you could easily be an extrovert and have a, Don't Be Close as well because the extroversion could be a defense against being close.
yeah.
next one is somewhat linked as its don't belong.
Right. Ah. clients have brought that in if they've been an army kid, if they've moved around a lot, they've gone from barrack to barrack and they don't have that. You ask them, you know what, you know, where did you grow? Where do you think of his home? Well, I grew up in Germany. Those six years.
And then I was doing that for six years and then we lived up in Scotland for six years and then there was this barrack that Barrack, and this is where I am right now when I've got a job and met somebody. So this is home now? No, I don't feel like I belong here either. Yeah. Don't belong. That's, that's a nasty side effect, unfortunately, of just having that traveling, moving around lifestyle amongst other things. What else could cause that?
I suppose it could be a result of some of the others. So if, if parents were very cold and saying, Don't Be Close and Don't exist, or any of the others, then they could. Child will get a feeling of don't belong. But it's also, it's a not safe to belong. And that ties in with the trust, doesn't it? If you've belonged to a group and been let down or thrown out of a group, then having a Don't Belong injunction would be safer.
Hmm.
Then we got a contrasting one. Don't be separate.
Ah.
So, yeah, if, if the message is you cannot exist on your own, you need me stroke us, stroke your family, society, whatever, you cannot be on your own. Mm hmm. That reminds me of people I know well from when I was a child, distant, very distant family, people who, when their child went to university, they insisted that he went to university in the hometown so that he stayed at home didn't, go and live independently. Whereas in my family, it wasn't sort of get as far away as you can.
It was that part of going to university was to separate and to get your own life and to live independently. Because my parents knew that's going to be good. It's all good. You can still, I mean then, then it was go and use a call box to phone home.
And
no mobile phones, but we were still connected.
Yeah. As a parent, it is scary to think of your children growing up. I mean, my son's just turned 18 and he's had a few university offers now actually. Cause he's, he'll be going to Uni next year if he's gonna go. And he's had, he's had all these offers and some of them are local-ish and some are literally the other side of the country. They're as far away as you can get. And I know that both me and my wife are gonna struggle. Of course we are. He's been with us for 18 years.
You know, it, it's close to half of our life almost. It's gonna be horrible and we've gotta deal with that. And because we are close to Coventry and, and he did have a look around Coventry University and went, it's a bit close to home though, isn't. and I thought, yeah, exactly. It's a bit close to, oh, okay, it's a bit close to home. You probably don't want to go here. Okay, fine. And I know he is not gonna go there.
I know for a fact cuz he specifically said, oh, I want the, he's actually used those phrase, that phrase, I want the university experience, you know, I want to go and do stuff. Even if I've gotta do a foundation year and spend more money and spend more time, don't care. I wanna get away. It's like, oh my boy , he wants to go. And For most parents, that's a hard thing, but for some it's almost impossible.
And that when it's put onto the child, it's, that's when it's, that's when it's the problem. I remember Jack when he was in the sixth form, he was considering trying to get a golf scholarship to the states. It didn't ever get even close to coming off, but he did a gap year and went to Australia. And he, he said at one point it was just, I want to be anywhere but here. And that was fine. I
remember that. Did he stop with Alan
he did. He he stayed with Alan. Yeah. He was, it, it wasn't said in any way that was. In, in anyway negative. I understood it completely. So he went to Australia and it didn't really work out very well for various reasons, which you don't need to go into. But again, it sort of was just didn't work out, but nothing particularly negative. And he just wanted to come home
Hmm.
and he came home early and he was so happy to be home. A month of coming home, he met Ellie, who he's going to marry next year. and he went off to university a distance away and everything was alright. But he needed that getaway to learn he wanted to stay, to be close. Anyway, right. What's the next one? Don't be well
Oh,
or sane. so this will be parents who like to look after their child or children and keep them under control, I would guess.
yes. They would've been rewarded if they were unwell. And the brain learns. That feels good. Do it again. That feels good. Do it again. And we know that go and listen to our placebo effect episode that we did the other week. If you want to, the brain makes things happen. Psychosomatic illnesses are just as real as somatic illnesses. The brain can bring you out in hives it can make your legs stop working. It can make you
you blind.
out of bed. It can make you blind. Yes, absolutely can. And if you've got that message,
that, that life is better if you're not. Then we've got two that are related which there is the last one, but we've actually really covered, which is don't trust. So we've covered that. So the last two, are Don't Think, and Don't Feel.
Ah,
So don't think. That again is a sort of putting down, isn't it? It's a it, well, is it, is it a safety one? It's better not to think or is it that it's better if you let me do the thinking.
The thing is, children will question everything if there's, apart from yes and no. Mama, dada. One of the first things that a child will say the most is why? Why? Why? And of course that's gonna get tiring. Eventually you just go because it just is. That's why.
Oh, because I say so
because I say so
we've all be, we've all
a
had to, we've all had to resort to that at some point.
Yeah. Yeah. But if more often than not, we can say, and this is why, then the child doesn't learn that they shouldn't be questioning stuff. The more we question, the more we learn. If we don't question things, we don't learn to think critically and think outside of the box and do different things. Otherwise, we'd still be in the stone age. Well, this is what we've always done around here.
And if we just react to things rather than think and plan and wonder and consider, then well, it's limiting. And then of course the don't feel on the list. It says that's a group of injunctions really. But it's the it's the confusion that there is in society about feeling and expressing feelings when it says big boys don't cry, which applies to girls as well, of course,
Oh yeah. Good girls don't get angry.
a little child who's told, let's say they're screaming in a restaurant cuz they haven't got their chicken nuggets. And they're told. To stop it, then that child is not gonna have the wherewithal to go, oh, I understand. It's okay to be disappointed that I haven't got my chicken nuggets, but it's not okay to scream about it in the restaurant. They're not gonna be able to differentiate that they're gonna hear the message. I shouldn't feel disappointed. That's unacceptable.
So, I'm not allowed to do that, so I won't feel it.
I'll squash that down.
Yeah,
Yeah. And that's, that's not healthy. It's getting better. You know, people are in our generation, they are sharing more information about, it's good to talk, it's good to express things, get it out. let's feel all of this. But there is still a pushback for everyone that does that. There's another person who says, but that means me changing who I am. No one's gonna make me change who I am. And then they dig down into who they were.
Like, I so often say nothing's a problem unless it causes problems. And for that other person might not be causing them a problem, except they're always angry because the world seems to be changing around them. And they'll do things to try and conserve everything. Cuz change is scary. Well, no change is safe. But yeah, I suppose it is scary, but it's still safe. Doesn't mean it just, cuz it's scary doesn't mean it's not safe.
I often think it's useful to consider that we could name a hundred different emotions. Probably narrow that down into couple of dozen categories. And we are all feeling all of them on a, let's say a scale of one to 10 all the time. So right now my anger is that, well, let's say zero to 10, but it's still, you know, it's probably, I could think of something if I wanted to that would get it to about a one. Like the damage that's been done to my cupboard.
So we are always somewhere on a scale for all of those emotions all the time. It's when they come to the higher levels that being aware of them is really useful because that's informative. But then we have a separate scale of expression of them. Which don't have to tally at all. You could be 10 on an anger scale and zero on expression of it. If that is what you feel is appropriate at that time.
You could also have a, a sort of one or two on an anger scale and express it at a 10 if that's what you felt was appropriate.
and we've all met people like that.
Yeah, and it might be appropriate at, at particular times it might have more impact. So any of these things, so if we're doing that with, let's say, 20 different emotions all the time, we're weighing up A, how we are feeling, where we are on those continua for each one and what we are choosing to do in terms of expression of them. It's a jolly, complicated thing.
Mm. Yeah. this would be an episode, I think to re-listen to from time to time because there's a lot in here to take in. There really is. And people do re-listen to podcasts. They, say that to me all the time. You know, somebody said to me last week, I mean, an
00 AM I got a message at eight o'clock that said, I've listened to this twice today. Already . Wow. Because, oh, that, that meant something to me. I'm gonna go back and listen to that and I think this is gonna be one of those episodes cuz there's a lot
there's a lot here.
it'd be really useful to get your head around it really, really would. Well, an extra long episode today, Fiona. I think we need you to do that today and that's okay from time to time.
absolutely is
Do continue to send us in some questions. Give us some prompts of things to talk about, not, by the sound of things, we need much prompting, but it is always nice to hear from you and we do like to tailor make these episodes where we can. So link is in the show notes to a form on our website where you can let us know what you're thinking and feeling and some feedback from many of these episodes as well. Happy to hear it.
Right, gonna love you and leave you have super duper week if you need anything, you know where we are. See you again soon. Bye for now.
Bye.