Hey there everybody. Hope all's tickety boo with you. It's time for another episode of Therapy Natters. Whether you want to be a therapist or a, or a therapee, I'm sure we can natter about something that you'll find useful. I'm Richard Nicholls and fellow psychotherapist Fiona Biddle is with me too. How's tricks Fiona?
All fine here, except it's so cold, isn't it? Gosh, it's
Yeah. It's pretty blooming nippy.
It's what we expect at this time of year,
Yes. It. Because we've had some mild times. Every now and again there's bit like a couple of weeks ago it went from minus three to plus 10 Celsius in the matter of 24 hours. We're like, wow, that's why I love this country. cuz it's so different and varied and then it's cold again and you're like, oh, for goodness sake.
and what would we do if we couldn't talk about the weather?
Oh, we'd have to have proper conversations with each other instead of small talk. So many people hate small talk. Do you have clients who say, I just don't know how to do small talk?
Yes, absolutely. There's a great book on that. How to talk to anyone by Leil Lowndes. You can find it very easily on Amazon or wherever you buy your books. It's got little tricks and ideas as to how to talk to anyone. And so it's very digestible and useful. So I do recommend
I like
people who say they can't do small talk
Oh, that's quite good. Can I do small talk? Always assume I can do anything when it comes to talking cuz you can't shut me up often friends and family will say, what's wrong with you, Can you not be quiet? Can you just please be quiet? My wife adores me. I'm quite sure she does, or at least I adore her. So maybe I'm projecting. But I think she loves me But. Even the people that love me still have to walk away.
So do, do you find it difficult to empathize with people who say they can't do small talk then?
Maybe I would've done if I wasn't a therapist, but I totally get other people's frame of reference now cause I've been a therapist for 20 years. And it's doing that, that has taught me about different frames of reference, that everybody's got a phenomenological way of experience in the world. Their own individual personal way of seeing and feeling about everything and. I dunno. When I realized that there wasn't a light bulb moment, it was just gradual over time.
Maybe it started with the theory from books that, oh, I hear this is the truth. I hear this is, this is how we work as humans. And then month by month, year by year, it becomes who I am because of repetition and. That's that's how humans work, isn't it?
Indeed. And it is something that sometimes people say that you have to have had a particular experience in order to work with others who've had that experience in therapy. And I'm not a fan of that that theory
have had depression in order to work with people who have depression.
there are exceptions to that rule. I do remember saying to a supervisee once who was a, a professional sports person. Just could not get their head around the idea of somebody eating too much from becoming overweight. It was just just absolute how could they, how could anybody do that? And so I did say, I suggest you don't work with that then. And they were perfectly happy to accept that should not be working with. Because if you, if you just literally cannot empathize with it, then that's a a,
That's a little unusual, but I, if it just goes to show that all therapists are different and when somebody goes through the UKCP or B ACP registers or wherever they're looking for a therapist and they're just it doesn't matter who it is or as long as they're local cause they want somebody that's in, you know, a local area. Cause they don't wanna travel or work on Zoom or whatever. And to them they might think it doesn't matter. These are people all have the same qualifications.
They'll all do the same thing. No, unless it's C B T, And even then, no. Mm-hmm. I was only thinking, I was thinking about that in bed this morning. Cause I, you know, I wake up early and I stare at the ceiling and I think about theory, C B T, there were some humanistic therapists that would still do C B T and they would do it in a humanistic way. But there were lots of agencies that would just do just the C B T, just the worksheets. Just the very logical stuff.
there is now the, the version of C B T in iapt, the improving access to psychological therapies, which this week has been renamed as the NHS talking therapies. I dunno if there's another word after that. Oh, yes, it has. Yes. Hot off the press. Hot off the press. Health education England only tweeted it yesterday, I believe, but certainly this week. There is a version of that.
And the moment we're still calling it iapt because nobody's come up with a, a snappy way of saying NHS talking therapies. I'm sure we will come up with one, but at the moment, let's think of just iapt, there is one that combines person-centered theory with, C B T and I was actually talking to the, the guy at Metanoia which is one of the key places that train in that.
And he was saying that their research, which is a huge data sample, is showing that that is superior in results than pure C B T. So that's a good thing
Mm-hmm.
the importance of the relationship even in C B T. So in my mind, the more that that can spread throughout, the better. But I distracted you from I think this was your segue, talking about people's own truths,
Yes. Cuz a couple of episodes ago we did an episode based on a message that got sent to us by a woman called Eve who was wondering, cause the subject in the email was simply, Am I in an abusive relationship? And I'm not sure we actually said yes or whether we just started talking about the process of how to handle it. I think it's fair to say she, she is, that would tick all the boxes for an abusive relationship.
And we did have a message from, well actually we had, we had two very, very recently. Cause as we're recording this, the episode actually only went out 48 hours ago. So we've only had a couple of messages. One from somebody who thought of themselves as uh, an abuser in the past thanking us. Saying let me precis it. I mean, they sent the message in anonymous. They didn't want their name on there. I'm ashamed to say that the character Eve described sounded very much like myself. For many years.
I was an abuser here's the important thing in, in anonymous' message in reply. It was many months of weekly therapy before I could accept what I had done and for my wife to start to trust me again. And it's been five years and they're, they're doing well. but he's still full of shame and guilt. And guilt I get when it comes to that. Shame not so, I don't like the word shame. Shame implies you've got something to feel bad about because of who you are as a person. So I get it. Maybe who you were.
but guilt, that's an important emotion. I think we should feel guilty if we've done bad things. If we've hurt somebody, we should feel guilty. Listen to that feeling because that then gives you information to work with, oh, that feels bad. Don't do it again. Guilt is great as long as you do something with it.
and as long
you do nothing with it,
in the first place. I mean, because
oh yeah. People can feel guilty when they've done nothing.
Yeah.
absolutely. But if you have, then that's when our defense mechanisms need to drop a little bit. We need to push the denial away and go, I get it. Yeah. It's okay to admit that I did something wrong. And this is because of toxic masculinity and the patriarchy. It's almost. Almost always is, is is strong. And it almost sounds like an absolute, but more often than not, of course, statistically it's the men that are the abusers, not the women.
Women do abuse, of course they do, but men do so far more. I was thinking of a phrase while I was in the shower this morning. I do a lot of thinking when I've got nothing else to do. Do you remember the phrase, and I'm hoping that there are some younger listeners listening to this who would go, I've never heard that phrase before. Who wears the trousers in your relationship?
Of course, I certainly remember that phrase.
Yeah, I remember people saying that to me in the nineties, maybe even in the two thousands.
I, I, it's not one that I have actually thought about, but as soon as you say it, you go, gosh, yes.
How horrible is that?
an awful phrase, isn't it?
The implications there that the one that wears the trousers is the one that makes the decisions and is in charge and in control. That's vile. And of course, if that's your truth, if that's your reality, because that's how you were brought up, that's what you're gonna pass on to the next generation. Hurt people hurt people and they need to be called out for it. And that's why we made the episode the other week about abusive relationships.
And what we wanna make sure is that people don't take away from that, that it's the, I hate the word victim. I hate the word victim, but what else do we do? The sufferer. But it is, people are being victimized. If somebody's being abused, they are being victimized, but it's not, it's not necessarily up to the abused to stop the abuse. The abuser needs to stop. And we had a, a messaging from a lady called Sophie and she put the message onto Facebook.
She copied and pasted it, I think, and put it onto Facebook with a link. So if, if you go onto my Facebook page, which is Richard, Nicholls author, find me on Facebook. Or just put Richard Nicholls into Facebook. You'll see my cheesy face. I've been using the same headshot for 12 years, although I've got no hair now cause I shave my head. So I don't look quite like that anymore. But hey, I'll get a new one. I'm, I'm diverting cuz I'm clearly uncomfortable. Because Sophie had a fair point.
She had a point to say that was like, whoa, I listened to that episode and was really upset. It was obviously, it was upsetting. It was maybe, maybe triggering in some way because the takeaway for, for Sophie was it's the abused fault and they've just got to be more assertive. and it gives abusers permission to carry on abusing because, well, it's your fault. You should have stood up to me. And obviously that is not what we want the takeaway to be.
But what we do want is that abusers can listen to that episode and go, yeah, that sounds like me. And everybody's saying that this person's an abuser, but they're not doing anything. That I'm not doing A little bit like. I don't think he'd mind mentioning it, but my son was diagnosed with A D H D, and when he described some of his experiences to me a year or so ago, I said, Wow, that sounds completely normal. He went, yeah, you would say that though.
A bit like people who get diagnosed as autistic and their family goes, no, you're not. You do everything exactly the same as normal people do. It's fine. No but you would say that because that's your reality. And to be 46 and to, discover that, oh, I'm not as neurotypical as I thought was a lot to take on because then you've gotta, you've gotta look at your foundations that make you, you. Now, for something like autism or adhd, that's relatively painless. Might even be positively life changing.
But for somebody who discovers they're an abuser, that's. Defense. Mechanisms are gonna kick in and they're gonna go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But they need to hear it again and again, and it takes everybody to step forward and say, that is abuse. And and I hope that that's gonna be the takeaway from that message from a few weeks ago. And go back and have a, have a listen to that and if you haven't listened to it already, let us know what you think.
I'd, I'd also just like to, to, to add in, you know, Sophie says that what Eve described is coercive control, which is a crime. Now, obviously the coercive control is a crime. But our perception from what Eve sent us was that it hadn't quite reached that sort of level. But I will, I will hold, hold my hands up that for confidentiality reasons, because what we really didn't want to happen was, and the slight chance that Eve's husband might listen to the episode.
We didn't want him thinking, oh my God, this is actually me. We'd be fine if he thought this is like me, but we didn't want him to think it was me, so I changed her story quite significantly. And. Really do sus I, no, I don't suspect. I know that I made it worse, so I apologize for that. I should have been a little bit more careful and not made it further along that continuum towards coercive control. So yes, sorry folks.
But even if there wasn't that, that slight exaggeration, the takeaway would've been the same if if that's exactly what Eve'd said, you know, all of those things were, were true.
Yes. If, if all of those things were true, we, we, we would've included involving the police or whatever. And we didn't, because that wasn't the feel of what Eve actually sent to us.
Yeah. Well, well, listener Sophie's concern was that there have been many, many cases where partners have been killed. By their abuser. And if you backtrack through the, the, those experiences, you'll see that there was all of those signs beforehand and there were the things that Eve was describing. That doesn't necessarily mean that everybody who does those things is gonna become a murderer because Correlation does not imply causation.
It, it's the opposite way around that those that are doing the murdering were cruel and manipulative psychopaths. It doesn't work the other way around. That being an abuser makes you
a psychopath.
But it definitely needs a spotlight shining on it because it is scary. It absolutely is, but it's all, everything's always on a case by case basis. But if people can look at their partners and, and recognize, I'm not as happy as I should be, and you don't treat me in the same way that is respectful and fair. That needs addressing safely, obviously. and that might mean for some, like you said the other week, it might mean the relationship has to end and you walk away.
Cuz I, I'm all for trying to rescue relationships if possible. I think relationships can be rescued even on the brink of separation. Sometimes they can't. They absolutely can't. And how do we know until we talk about it? Think about it, discuss it with others on forums, listen to podcasts, learn about it all. We don't know. But like you said, the other week, you have to sit down and go, is this worth saving? Because if it isn't, yeah, you gotta walk away.
But if it is, if it's worth saving, genuinely. Try and save it. Absolutely.
And just, just thinking, I've, I've talked I'm sure many times about things being on continua, that, you know, very few things are black and white. And even A relationship is going to be somewhere on a continuum of, of control and coercion, and even then, it will vary from moment to moment if somebody is being coercive an awful lot of the time, that is different from occasional.
And the, the, the sort of subtle differences of encouraging somebody to go this, this was part of your story, to go to his family rather than hers at Christmas. Rather than say, you cannot see your family. The, the subtle, the subtle differences and all of this, as you say, on a Richard, on a case-to-case basis, all of this needs to be looked at.
Yeah, because it, it needs to stop cuz the, this, these attitudes get passed down. The generations. Man hands-on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. As the poem goes, I won't do the whole poem cuz it's got a dirty swear word in it. But I think I did read it out on a patron only episode. You'd probably hear me swearing like a trooper on a patron only episode if you wanna go and find that. You're very welcome. Hurt people. Hurt people. And they can get therapy and heal.
one thing I, I've often thought is, that almost everybody tries to be the best that they can. And I actually remember having an argument with a student once when I was saying nobody deliberately does bad things. And he was, oh, yes, they do. Oh, but let's say most people do the best that they can, and that means most people will be trying to learn the lessons. From the past.
So modeling the good things that they've seen, particularly from parents and teachers and other important people and, and not doing and being the things that they perceive as bad. By now, shouldn't we all be jolly well, perfect if we, if that worked because if Over the, how many millions of generations we've had, shouldn't we? But that's, we are not so clearly that only works to a degree.
Yeah. If we all want better for our kids and everybody for a a thousand generations has wanted better for their kids, how great would it be? And if Christmas really did get earlier every year, it'd soon be in June. It, it, it doesn't It just feels that way sometimes. So there was another topic we wanted to talk about today, wasn't there because we had a message from let's have a Look, Andy from London, he says. My question would be, is there such a thing as positivity bias during therapy?
And if so, what causes it? And how aware are therapists of it? By positivity, bias, I mean generally feeling or coming across in a better mood before, during, and after therapy than day to day. Andy, thank you for sending in a message, Andy. Positivity bias Fiona. Have you ever considered that before?
Not with that label on it. But the thought behind it, yes. And what Andy said made me smile in the very simplistic way of I should jolly well, hope so. But only to a degree. Cuz it can be the other way around. Sometimes people are, what would the word be? Well, it could be any sorts of words. They might be scared before the therapy sessions, they might be uneasy stressed because, you know, therapy's not supposed to be easy.
It's not come along, have a natter and go away again, feeling better in the same way that if you have a natter with your friend, over a cup of tea, you might feel better. It's not, it's not the idea. It's supposed to be, in a sense, uncomfortable. It's supposed to be challenging. So sometimes people would feel a little bit the opposite. But on the whole, I would hope that people are generally feeling that they're looking forward to the therapy, even if it is challenging and uncomfortable.
There's lots of things which are uncomfortable that can be very good for us in many ways. Used the example of a rollercoaster last week. I think you know, that's not necessarily comfortable, although they vary. But things aren't necessarily comfortable, but you can still look forward to the process and look forward to the result that you get from it. And one would also hope that most of the time, you know, people do feel good.
Even if it's just from the fact of being heard and being in relationship to somebody in that really close, unique sort of way that happens in therapy.
And obviously it depends what somebody's expecting to bring into therapy. If they're expecting to sit down with a therapist and, and talk about how well they've been doing lately because they seem to be improving, the mental health is improving, then they're gonna look forward to saying that. And focusing then on the benefits that have come from being in therapy. But of course that's not gonna be everybody's case. My receptionist hello Ruth. If you're listening, she doesn't listen.
Because I work in a health clinic. There's an osteopath in there. There's somebody who looks after somebody's feet. They might even have a nice gentle massage. There might be something very therapeutic. And as I come to collect my client from reception, well, hello, Missy Smith. Come with me. I'll show you where I work. I'll take her away and Ruth will call over. Enjoy like that.
And I feel quite uncomfortable about that, and I had to take her to one side the other week and go, don't say that what I do might not necessarily be something that people are expecting to enjoy. But You're a therapist, Richard. Yeah, but actually it can be quite painful, the stories that people bring in. They might not enjoy it and you, given that suggestion that they're supposed to, might be upsetting. So don't say that. She's like, oh, okay. I won't do that.
So thank you, Ruth. She hasn't done that for a few weeks, but that was something she used to do a lot. Enjoy. Now, maybe years ago when I used to do a lot of hypnotherapy, Sometimes people just came for hypnotherapy cuz they wanted to learn to relax. They had no difficult stories to tell. They just wanted to learn some relaxation techniques or they were just fascinated with the idea of hypnosis and just were just interested.
So yeah, come and lie down, enjoy, but actually talk therapy, even hypnotherapy can sometimes be quite challenging and people can be expecting beforehand that it's gonna be painful for them in the short term, addressing these things that they bring in .But in the long term, hmm, there'll be some benefits from leaving all that stuff in the therapy room and not have to take it with them.
This conversation reminds me of something that came up in a supervision session the other day where my supervisee was saying that their new client. Had done lots of therapy before and it was all good. All of them were good for a little while,
Hm
and then things reverted. And this, I think this ties in with the question because you know, if something is making you feel better for a little while, but not long term, then to me then that hasn't got to the root of it. It's like chopping a dandelion off at the stem and it'll grow back.
But there was also something with a subtle little bit I thought, I dunno if it was intended to be there in Andy's question about coming across in a better mood, which to me suggests that that's something created probably unconsciously for the benefit of the therapist showing the therapist I'm okay when actually maybe they aren't. And that is something that we, as therapists, we are definitely aware of that.
I did that for two years.
Oh, did
years in. Yes,
you pretended to your therapist that you were better than you.
Oh yeah. I was perfect client. I was exactly what she wanted. I was the ideal client. I brought in everything that they, that they needed to, needed to hear, and said all the right things. Yeah.
well that's not really a perfect
two years. No, absolutely not. Because I'm still in therapy now,
Yeah.
and, and will be forever. I quite enjoy it.
Oh, yes, me too. So and that is a thing, just going back to the enjoyment. You can get to the point where you do really enjoy the process of being challenged because it's safe, and then it's, it's okay. And it's, it's like going on a rollercoaster. It's safe. But yeah, that's not, that's not an ideal client. And I'm interested as to how you managed to pull wool over her eyes.
It's, it's natural that people want to make their therapist happy though in the same way that we often want to make other people happy. You know, maybe we should do an episode on that sometime.
Yes. It's a common question. We, we do get it brought up a lot, whether it's in the therapy room or it's, through messages to the podcast. About fearing what people think
Hmm.
and people pleasing. People
maybe let's do that next time, shall we?
Yes. We absolutely will. In fact, I know for a fact we've had some, we've definitely got some questions that we can, we can put somebody's a listener's name to, to that.
But back to Andy's point about positivity bias. I think that will be questioning specifically whether therapists are aware of it. Again, it's a case by case basis and all therapists will be checking out the how much this person that's sitting there in front of them is, is being how they are out there in the, in the world.
Mm-hmm.
So they might not be aware of it with that phrase as I wasn't, but the idea behind it Is that the phrase that you've been aware of in terms of therapy sessions per se?
The first thing that popped into my mind when I read it and saw the word positivity bias was placebo. That we have, whether it's coming across or whether it's genuine, we have. Control over our instincts and unconscious processes with nothing more than expectation. If we're expecting to feel something, then we'll feel it in advance. That's what anxiety is.
That's why we feel nervous about something that isn't happening, but it's something that's either a potential or it's something that's due around the corner. When people are stressed about their exams, well, you're not in an exam. In fact, you're sitting on the bus. What's going on? Why are you stressed? Well, I've got an exam next week. Well, that's next week. Why are you feeling it now? Because they have a brain. They have frontal lobes.
They have an imagination they can daydream, and that is gonna influence everything because like one of my phrases is the brain doesn't know the difference between fact and fiction. Well use that to your advantage. If the brain doesn't know the difference between fact and fiction, use some fiction to create a, an expectation of a future where things are gonna be brighter.
Now, with clinical depression, that's not so easy because people are struggling either through hormonal problems, chemical issues within the brain, however true that is, and that's an ongoing debate about what actually depression is. Is it just a list of symptoms? Is it a serotonin issue in the brain? Is it a gut hormone imbalance?
And then you've got
whatever you want it to be to a degree.
then you've got the chicken and egg scenario. Let's just say, let's just say for ease that depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Well, is it the chemical imbalance that causes the feelings of being depressed or is it the feelings of being depressed that cause the chemical imbalance to match the feelings? And nobody's got an answer to that one. Generally.
Some people have a very specific, their own interpretation, and sometimes it's very clearly, well, that's reactive depression where it's, they know that it's this bereavement, for example, that's caused the depression, therefore cause the imbalance. Other people will say, no, there's nothing wrong at all. Therefore, it's a chemical thing, but often it's in between.
Just to say about your example of the anxiety on the bus, because you've got an exam next week, that can be jolly useful because that ensures that you revise.
Yes. Like I was saying earlier, emotions are there for a reason. We're supposed to feel them, listen to them. What's it telling you? It's if it's telling you I haven't revised enough, then check whether that's true or whether that is part of a, a narrative of I've, I've, I've got to be perfect. Or whether genuinely you haven't revised enough, and that's great. If you haven't revised enough, then you know I've gotta revise for that exam. Word of advice, just revise for that one.
If you've got four exams over three weeks, just revise for the next one. Don't revise for all of them because that feels too overwhelming. Just do one at a time. Yeah, but they're all on the same day, Richard. Oh. Speak to somebody about that because that's not fair. And what we're gonna do, change the education system. Oh, I don't know. One thing when we were talking earlier there about serotonin and so on, I was reminded of a question that somebody sent.
actually last year, and I, I had nowhere to put it in an episode. And it was from somebody called Celexa who, sorry, Fiona, you've not seen this, this question. Cause I, I was waiting for a space to put it in. Whereas somebody Celexa said, if the serotonin theory has now been debunked, cause I think it has, then why does citalopram really help me, especially with the increase in dose. She's saying it can't be the placebo effect. she was doubting.
It was, it would help from the, from the beginning and has switched to citalopram. Um, One thing worth mentioning about SSRIs, not that I know a great deal about it cause I'm a talk therapist, but the way they work is to stop your body, reabsorbing the serotonin to keep it in the brain, but your brain has to make the serotonin in the first place. The antidepressant won't do that. That's not what the antidepressant does.
It uses the serotonin that you create in the first place and stops it fading away, keeps it there in your brain. But you have to make that serotonin, and you don't do that by taking a pill. You do that by. The things that bring you pleasure in life. Joy. Usually it's connections to other people. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's reading. Sometimes it's the meaning behind a piece of art. It could be all sorts.
But does that mean that the cure for the depression is just to live your life, be free, do what you want to do? Yes and no. Case by case basis. You've gotta do a lot of things. But to say, There's no point in taking SSRIs. No point in taking antidepressants because I've gotta produce the serotonin myself anyway. Well, that's like saying don't go to therapy because I could always talk to a stranger on the bus. Yeah, you could, but it might not have the same effect. Do as many things as you can.
Do what works for you. You'll see these books that say I mean I but I'm just as guilty or am I, I dunno. I haven't read it for a long time, but I wrote a book, 15 Minutes to Happiness. Do these 15 minute Things in Into Your Life every day and throughout the course of a year, you're gonna get better. Is there a rule book that says this is what you do? No, and I, I think hopefully that was the takeaway from my book, that you've gotta figure out what works for you.
And it might be art, and it might be antidepressants. It might be leaving your husband, it might be changing your job. It might be becoming a therapist. It might be becoming a bin cleaner whatever. You've gotta find out what works for you. Hm. That's my tangent.
One of many today, but that's, that's fine. That's what a natter is, isn't it? Go off on tangents and it's fine. I mean, I think, you know, what you've said there about the serotonin makes perfect sense. But I mean, I just, I take away the, the fact that what I've heard psychiatrists say is, They don't know why it works, but it works for a lot of people. but still some of them would say only as a short term measure, but then other people would say if they work.
And they continue to work, then stay on them. if you're taking antidepressants and you're still depressed, then to me that's sort of a, a why are you taking the, the thing that's supposed to stop the thing? But it might be making it better. Not better. Better but better. That's an awful thing in the English language, isn't it? That the same word means two things. Yeah. Better or better.
Yeah. Somebody said to me recently that they got a friend who'd been in, they'd been seeing a therapist for I think four years. And they were no further forward now than they were four years ago. And they said to their friend think you need a different therapist that's not working for you. And and she said that to me and I thought, maybe, but that's up to her to figure out.
Because maybe she's just not getting worse and would've done if it hadn't been for therapy, because yeah, weekly therapy for four years, you would expect that you'd be in a better place than you were four years ago.
And that also makes me think that an awful lot of therapists don't do measures. And so I, I've experienced this a few times where a client says, oh, I'm no better. But I do use measures quite a lot of the time, and I can, so I can say, well, when you started, you scored this and now you are scoring that. I mean, I don't overly use them. I don't think I overly use them.
And sometimes if a client's eyes glaze over when I suggest it, I'll leave it be, but when you've changed your new normal is normal
Mm-hmm.
Easy to forget or indeed difficult to remember how it used to be. So it is quite a regular thing that people will say, nothing's changed when actually it has.
Yeah, it's, it's definitely worth working that out. But there's always the possibility that actually the therapy isn't really helping
absolutely.
you're just going over the same things over and over again, and the therapist says, tell me how you feel about that. And that's it. Person-centered counseling, and if it's done well, then can be helpful because it helps you to figure out how you feel like, we've, we said a few times in this episode, well, I, I have at least haven't I, that you, you've gotta look at those feelings. You can't just say, well, I feel bad.
What's that?
what's that? What's that mean? Yeah. Well, I feel bad. Well, does that make you want to throw a chair through a window or does it make you wanna cry? Does it make you wanna hide? Does it make you wanna run away? Let's play with this, cuz it could be guilt that somebody feels, or it could be fear, or it could be loneliness, or it could be regret.
There's lots of different feelings and unless you can look at it, and this is a problem that many people have, but especially men, unfortunately, just because of toxic masculinity, men are supposed to feel nothing other than bravado and anger, and that's it. There are no other feelings for a lot of men, that's it. And of course, if actually you're feeling guilt, well, that's not bravado. Must be anger, then, then they'll become angry. Well, what if it's loneliness? Isolation, regret.
I feel like a child. I feel small. I feel stupid. Well, it's worth looking at. We need to look at that. I think these are questions that everybody should be asking themselves, but it's best done with a therapist. Really is.
There's on the internet that wonderful place of information. Yeah, there's a list of 271 words to describe emotion. If you put in list of emotions, it'll probably pop up and it's on a site called berkeleywellbeing.com. Berkeley spelled B E R K E L E Y wellbeing.com, and you can download a PDF of those 271, emotion words. And for anybody who struggles to name what they're feeling, that can be a really, really useful one.
There's obviously, there's an awful lot of overlap between a lot of the words, but subtle differences. Shall we leave them with that today? Richard.
so, because time has ticked on, as we always say. There is a link in the show notes. Send us a message, give us a question, give us something to natter about and we will, we'll be here every week. Nattering away to our heart's content. Right. Leave you to it. Let us know if you need anything. You know where we are. Speak to you next time.
Bye.