Hello, Hey, who is this?
Hi? A'm Fox?
Your Fox?
Yeah, f o X Fox.
Okay is that really?
In? Is not? I don't really feel comfortable with you know, maybe one hundred plus people hear my name.
It's okay, that's okay. Yeah, why did you pick a fox?
Uh?
It's been it's actually why. It's actually my h R your name, my Steam account and for my microscount I got. Well, I talk to you about virtually virtual reality VR.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It says here that you feel like virtual reality has a lot of control over your life. I think this is interesting because soon enough, we are all going to be living inside of the computer. So you're kind of like a example of what all of our fates will eventually be.
Yeah, I kind of guess. So basically, I saw a lot of your podcasts. You know, I love you, Lyle. I love all your podcasts. That's amazing way you do. There was this one podcast this guy was talking about for reality and you're trying to hear to try it. It is worth trying. I will say that VR is a really open thing to have. It is now it's pretty cheap nowadays. He used to be like two thousand dollars and now it's down to like three hundred dollars.
Well so so so fox. So you said that VR has a lot of control over your life. Is that a has this manifested itself in any ways that are I would like to hear about the ways in which VR has been a positive thing for you and also the ways in which it is it has been a negative thing for you.
Okay, let's start off with negative.
Let's start off with negative.
Yeah, mind you, I have a skin condition basically throughout the exact name. But when I can't sweat, or when I do sweat, a sweat can't really come from my body, so it comes to side of like little pimple sum ups and VR hands a big, big like sweat focus almost because it's a heads on your head. You know. It's like wearing a ski mask and like Florida you
know summers. It makes you sweat a lot. VR hands also taken control of my wife, you know, at least in my mental statement, because I used to be this guy that would it's like, talk to anybody. I would walk up to them and say, hey, how you doing. I just ram strangers, you know. Now I'm really antisocial because I don't know how it's just really active people interesting.
So you used to be better at going up to people and starting conversations, and then VR kind of atrophied that muscle.
Yeah, it's it's kind of like that because inside of VR you can be whoever you want to be. You can walk up to anybody, say anything that you want to. It's online. But it just kind of in perspective of me talking to people because I used to I still am like a really friendly guy. It's just that now I've become antisocial. I'm not wis sure how it really happens, just that I don't like talking to people in the real world.
Let me ask you this, how often are you out in situations where you are talking to people in real life and socializing.
Works that? That's pretty much it. I don't really talk to anybody like my mom, my, stepdad, you know, my sister.
Do you have Do you have a lot of friends outside of VR in real life?
Oh?
No, no, not at all. I have no friends at all. I be this guy that was really time to hear. Everybody knew me. I was basically my friendliest guy. I would give like kids some popsicles on a hot summer day, and on the smiles, you know that kind of stuff.
Okay, that's very specific.
Now I have I have like no friends at all, Like I can't listen off anybody. All my friends are on line and it's a big.
Okay around when so you say, you're you're you're painting this arc of yourself as formerly confident, formerly having a lot of friends, and then VR kind of changed that for you. Around how long ago did you start to notice an atrophy in your social skills?
So I played VR back four years ago and around not even six months into gamesight VR, I realized that I was getting more antisocial. I went to talk to me about you and to go outside that much, and I thought that was okay, Like and like, imagine you got like a new Xbox while playing more often? Right, sure, but DR is just something different. You can interact with people. It's just like just to go outside, you have to do you do this?
Okay, So it's been so so so it's been about three and a half years around there you are, Okay, Now does any part of you, uh does I mean do you personally do you desire to be more social to have more friends? Are you sitting there in and wishing that you had those social skills that you felt like you had a good hand along a few years ago, or are you feeling rather comfortable where you're at right now.
It's a mix of a bulk. Actually, I feel like I'm really comfortable because like when I drink and stuff, you know, I get like either really aggravated, like really you know, I'm just that kind of guy, or like really calm. Usually I take an advantage of when I'm calm, so when I'm being drunk and inside VR, it's a virtual world, like nobody can harm me in an kind of way. But I want to be more social in the world too, because I know I'm gonna need some friends.
I wanna need child true like family. I know that I need that, but I just I don't think I can.
You know, why don't you say, well, okay, why don't you think you can?
It's just, you know, social anxiety. I guess I just kind of feel like I don't right around people anymore. But I stacked the exact same. I don't know if VR has kind of controlled me in a way, but like, I don't know, just I've met so many friends on here, and it's like why do I need real life friends when I have already a whole entire group of almost family around me inside online? You know?
I mean you bring up something interesting, right about Okay, So you don't have a lot of friends in real life, but you have all these internet friends, and even though they are avatars, they are real human beings. You are exchanging thoughts and ideas and spending quality time with representations of real people. And it's an interesting thing because there is legitimacy to that. Have you ever met anyone that you've met in VR in real life?
I met my ex?
Yeah, you met so you you had a relationship.
Yes, I actually want to tell you about that too, So VR you can meet anybody rather it be a girl, a man, a lover.
A follower. What's the what's the most fucked up avatar you've seen? By the way?
Oh? Okay? Is there certain words that are explicit to the Twitch channel?
I mean, don't say anything racist, but other than that, go ahead and racist.
I just want to make sure that I can describe this, So in VR chat you can make any anazar that you like. So it's this, it's this naked man? Right? Sure, I didn't have a good good, like a crotch or anything like that. It's just like a naked avid artist fully peach skin. But when you talk out of it, it moves your skin and it makes flesh pop out.
What wait, so it makes like you can like make your penis talk and ship.
Yes, you can. Actually also when you when you talk, skin stops out of your chest and moves around when you talk, around your legs, around your thighs, around the world, your body.
I'm starting to see why you don't leave the VR world.
It's interesting.
Okay, So back to the relationship you met a girl on VR.
Uh. Yeah, there's actually my burnst long term relationship clearer or not. So I realized people would just take advantage of me. H yah, yeah, you know, kind of true. But we last a year, so really we wanted.
Yeah, in the course in the course of that year, did you guys ever meet in real life?
Around eight months is when we started to you know, trying me up. We had plans, and then another month later we decided to do it. So we met up inside of VR. I mean we met up in the side of the real world and sounded like a double airport. We got some pretzels from and Annie's and you just kind of ended up for a while.
Okay, where did you so? So did you guys? Did you go to her, did she come to you? Or did you meet somewhere in the middle? Uh?
We I came to her.
Okay. And how did that feel for you meeting somebody in real life that you met in VR.
I'll be honest, I really did not feel that comfortable of it. So, really, mind you have line personas. They can act like a whole entire different person on the airnet, a whole time person. They can make more cameras, make more aggravated, to make a whole entire, big different difference when you act online. It's like mongel for two lobbies almost,
you know. But it just felt weird because her actual persona herself was very, very very different, interesting, She was a lot more sense, she had to say, She flirted a lot with other guys, and then that next month I started to try to tell her that one break off with her. But it's just online personas can be really controversial, I think.
Okay, hold on, so, so okay, stick stick with me here for a second. Okay, give me what is the difference that you observe between her online persona and how she acted in real life towards you.
So online side y are, she'd be really kind, like she would hang out with me almost every day. She'd talk to me, she tell me how my day was, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like she was very very kind, like almost like my dream girlfriend almost, you know, and she hass all these ways and I really liked it, you know, But in real life she was a lot more sand here, a lot more aggravated, i'd say, at times. And she'd never ask anything if they was or any of this or
any of that. And she would constantly flirt with other guys right from me, like strangers.
Almost Hmmm, interesting, do you I mean, it's it feels a little pointless to speculate about this, but do you have any theories as to why she she was acting so differently than than she was normally.
I've only seen her like that once, you know, once, mm hmm. She kinda was just like a lot more fantsy towards like well of her other friends. I think it's just how she acted around me.
Do you do you get a did you get a sense from her when you when you met her, did you get a sense from her that she also was a little bit nervous to meet somebody in real life and also kind of spent a lot of time in VR and had sort of atrophy social skills.
She she told me before that she met a guy in her life and basically smashed him like.
That said, okay, okay, okay, So Fox, so you had this girl friend over VR. You did meet her in real life, and then I guess, I I guess when you met her in real life and the vibe was different, that was kind of the beginning of the end for that relationship.
Yeah. I mean when I met her and several life I just lost a lot of feelings. Okay, just everything changed, I guess.
So Now what about what about friends? What about friends?
Friends?
Have you met any friends? Have you met any friends in real life from VR?
Any friends? Hey? Have you played D and D? And just a question for those.
Post I haven't, but I know it is, you know what it is?
Okay, So me and my friends we've played D and B a lot inside of like VR. There's this VR world side VR chant It's called D and D Dungeons and Dragons, and we play like this made up Rick and Morty, D and D session, and we've been doing it for about for like by four months now recently actually not even I think three weeks ago, we did a road trip all across the country. I had really drive from Florida to Michigan to Alabama to I believe
not in New York. No, it was New York. So we had this a little big idea that we go to like random like little places like Washington State or like see like New York buildings that we've never seen before, like New York pizza fiverstun.
So you so you went on this road trip with with all of you how many of how many of you guys were there on this road trip?
Five?
Damn? So all all five of you guys went on a big road trip across the country.
Yeah it was. It was really nice.
You know that sounds fun, man, Yeah, it really, it really was.
I gotta say, you know, get go. I gotta say, if you ever get into VR, a good tip for you is treat it like it's a console, like you you're playing on your PC, like you're just trying to play a game for once. Don't treat it as in like a separate life. Because a lot of people when the game slight VR. They think it's almost like a second life for them, and it's kind of sad how they feel like that. I once felt like VR one it's a second life, but I just kind of came over that a little factor.
Then, well, you know, you bring you know, this whole call is is really bringing up an interesting thing. And it's like this point of contention of you know, you're you're telling me that you've been in VR for three and a half years and that it's really like fucked with yourself social skills, and you're telling me that you can't name a single friend that you have outside of VR. But yet you just told me about like a really cool, real life life experience of you hanging out with five
real human beings traveling across the world. I mean, that's a real legitimate social life experience that you had as
a result of being in this virtual world. And it's a really interesting thing to think about, Like are virtual friends, internet friends, you know, a legitimate healthy form of social interaction And I don't, I don't know, because you're you're bringing up all these different like sort of of of pros and cons in either direction, and maybe there's some kind of balance to be struck here, you know, like, like, it's so great to me that you have these friends
that you can go out and do real life stuff with, like this road trip. But at the same time you should try to balance that out with with finding friends in your immediate vicinity and making sure that when you do go out into the world you're adequately prepared to speak with other people.
Yeah, I don't know, there there is definitely a balance to be made, you know. VR is just about like one game too, like mind you I love military similar Its like Milsen. It's a roleplay of Milton. It's like, uh if people are really getting called onward. It's a game that lets you experience almost like drill tactics. For example, I'm an owner of a Milson serio.
Well well so, well so Fox. You know, I listened the specific games and whatnot is is uh you know, I mean I'm talking, but there's just the broader thing here of your internet friends versus your real life friends. But so listen, I mean, before we get off here, I want to I want to talk to you about your own personal life and your kind of future with this. Let me ask you something. Okay, you've had some great experiences,
you know. I mean, even if the girlfriend thing didn't work out quite the way you wanted it to, it's like it was a relationship. It was a thing that happened to you in your life. You know, you went on this road trip. You're having real human life experiences in this interesting hybrid way with VR and real life, and so moving forward for you, do you see yourself being able to put down the headset and go and really make a concentrated effort to make friends outside of VR.
I I'm not really sure. I wants almost all of my terroistics that people love about him from in real life. Like before I got into VR, VR itself online itself changes here how I've acted recently and how I do things and how I do this and now I do that, it's all changed, So it might not I might not be able to like I'm struck, You're rick?
Can I ask you this? Have you ever been to real therapy to talk about this?
I have not, But I think that I really don't, you know, I think that I can easily pass through through life and I'll eventually get over it. It's social anxiety, I know it, So I will eventually get over.
It, you believe so, so looking forward, you're optimistic about your ability to get over your social anxiety.
Yes, yes, I am. I'm pretty sure that if I I meet some more friends from online hopefully here soon, and maybe we I just meet all my friends or some of my friends in real life again, I think that I could definitely get more used to talking to people in real life. And I just moving on conviction, right, I think so too.
I think that the more efforts you can make to take these people that you've been meeting in VR and and make plans to you know, go to them or have them come to you and meet them in real life and slowly through that kind of transition from your virtual world into the real world is a good way for you to get over that that anxiety. And I'm stoked to hear that you're optimistic about that.
Yeah, I mean, I have hope. You know. I love my friends. I trem like family. I will do anything to meet them, to talk to them of the life. I want to see those things. I want to talk to them. That's some Adazar, that's kind of like what I want to do. I want to meet my friends in the real world, all right, I'll let.
You go, man, I'll talk to you soon. Thank you very much for calling, and genuinely very excited to hear that you see an upward trajectory for yourself.
All Right, get go, all right, I love what you're doing. Man, continue with Okay, I will be appreciated.
Take care by the all right, that was a really really interesting modern call.
You know.
I was just I went to twitch Con recently and I met a lot of people there who were meeting their internet friends in real life for the first time. And I don't know, I don't have like opinions about this. I'm just kind of going through it. It's like there's all this pushback of, oh, kids aren't socializing enough these days because they're out in v or playing Call of
Duty or doing these things. And it's a legitimate question as to whether or not, you know, it's a legitimate question as to how much of those interactions are legitimate,
healthy human social interactions. And I don't know. And Fox was an interesting case study of this because he is he is meeting real people and having real interactions through VR, and they are leading to human interactions that have nothing to do with VR, like this road trip, like meeting up with that girl and listen, would it be better and cleaner perhaps if he were able to have nothing to do with the internet, have nothing to do with VR,
and have a healthy social life. Maybe, But I mean that's not where we're at, even societally, That's not where we're at. I mean, this is just gonna keep being a thing that people get more and more into. And Yeah, it was just interesting to talk to Fox in that first person perspective of how he's he's navigating that, and
like I said, I'm glad to hear that. It's it seems as though he's trying to make more of an effort to transition these online relationships into real life relationships and that that maybe leads to him being a little bit more confident in the future in uh going out and forming these relationships in real life without VR. Anyway, let's take another call.
Oh, Lyle, how are we doing?
I'm doing good? Is this is this Scottie?
Is this Scotti?
What's going on?
Get go coffee for Halloween?
Oh?
Yeah? How much was yours?
It was like seventy five I think plus shipping.
Offerously, she was expensive. Dude, I don't know.
What I know I was sitting in my car and I think you actually got an answers. I walked in, but I guess, do some single bathroom real quick.
So Scotty, what's going on with you?
So I called to talk about something that happened to me. It was a few years ago. I'm twenty seven since last week, and when I was twenty one, me and my family went to the Bahamas and we all drank a good bit. It's a big drinking family. And at one point we're all on the beach and I met this girl and we were hanging out mostly and the family always going to dinner. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna stay ears. I cool, like I don't care, it's fine whatever. And uh so they all went to dinner.
I mean, this girl ended up going the ocean and doing.
A girl folk do.
And later that night, after came back to gave me went home, my uncle came up to me. He's like, hey, your granddad might have been videoing you while you were doing it. I don't know if he knows.
I noticed.
I don't anyone else might have noticed. I guess, like you can see what's going on and not like the graphic because they were pretty far away, Like, I don't even know the restaurants.
That close to us on the beach. I want to done.
It down for a second. Here, your grandfather accidentally videoed you having sex? Yes, were you?
I don't know if he knows it or not.
Were How does that even happen? Logistically?
They were pretty far away, but he got really nice.
Camera, so you can really zoom in on those things. I guess he's video in the family at dinner.
You were having on the beach.
It was in the water, it was.
So you can see the motions, but you can't see everything. Obviously.
Is it during the day?
Sun was going down, but it was a little live outside.
And we were just having sex with this girl in the middle of the day. Apparently it wasn't empty. Apparently your grandfather was there.
The restaurant has seen a lot further at the time.
Okay, so there's a restaurant and then hold on, I'm trying to get the bistics of this down. Okay, So there's a restaurant overlooking the beach, and it overlooks the part of the beach that you are in with this girl in the water having sex, and your grandfather is just video things going on in the restaurant, and then you are somehow in the background of your grandfather's Now wait, he zoomed, how do you Okay, how do you accidentally zoom in on you having sex? How is that an accident?
He didn't know I was doing it.
He didn't know what was going on.
So he was just zooming in on the beach.
Me in the water with this girl. And does this makes.
Sense to you night lately?
See what does this make sense to you?
Yeah?
Because I was there, it makes sense to me. I've seen the video, Like just imagine that was at the table and he's like, hey.
I mean this is the family vacation.
It's like Scott say, to hang out with this girl and he zooms in and zooms out.
Okay.
So so basically what's happening is your grandfather was taking some home videos and then you happened to be in the background, unbeknownst to your grandfather, having sex in the water.
Yes, but it must have been noticely enough for my uncle to realize because I knew. But my uncle came up to me and was like, hey, I hope you know that, Like this is what happened, and he has it. But the thing is is what I call it. It's like I didn't really care at the time.
I thought it's a funny to where I told my friends.
But like the older I get, you know, the boy, You're like, god, damn indeed.
I don't why if he knows?
Well, okay, why you say god damn it?
Dude?
You say that you didn't care at the time, but as you get older, it's starting to weigh on you. Why is it start older?
You just respect your grandparents more than what you get, you know, and you don't love to see ship like that. It was an awful decision for sure, but also didn't know they were so close, and I was heavily appreciated.
Okay, So do you so your grandfather doesn't know that he's in possession of a video of you having sex.
I don't know. If he doesn't know, he could very well know. And if he knows, my grandma knows. God, that's even worth all to have.
Have you ever talked to him about it?
No, not a conversation immigrants that usually kind of have.
Okay, So is this a thing that weighs heavy on your mind?
Oh?
Yeah, I definitely, late in bed and I had thought about this a long time.
Okay, do you feel do you feel as though do you feel as though addressing it and talking to your grandfather would uh would get rid of that?
If he does?
What if he doesn't know though?
Well? Okay, the weighing heavy, let's let's get into this. You say it weighs heavy on your mind?
Right?
Does it? Actually? Yes?
No?
Okay, okay, why does it? Why do you hate it? Why is it way heavy on your mind?
It's just you know, you look back at stuff you definitely should have done differently, and it's definitely probably top.
Three on my list right now.
Okay, Well, you know like they have.
I feel like I feel like they possibly have acted differently towards me the beast couple of years ago.
Oh okay, you think they've seen it? Do you think they've seen it? And you don't want to bring it up to them because if they haven't seen it, you bring it up, then.
They know if I are their poor decisions, So it could be other things has kind of changed our relationship, I guess some, but that's the one that's like, what.
The fuck, Scotty, you gotta eat this all right?
I'd eat it you just gotta eat it.
You just gotta like. Look, I don't know if you I don't know whether or not you should go and tell him, but don't, don't let What do you.
Think I should do?
I think you should do?
You think I should?
Yeah?
I think you should?
Interesting?
Oh all right, well maybe I will.
Is that footage you We don't know how many generations that footage is gonna be passed down through.
I don't even remember the footage at this point.
It's in like five years. I can't remember what it looks like. I'm looked back at it. I'm like, I wish I remember.
Years ago. Scotty has happened five years ago. You gotta deal with you gotta deal with this, Scott. You gotta eat this all right?
All right?
Well, thank you, Lou.
Is there anything else? Who I say to the people of the computer before we go?
Yea, all was on Friday night? Get wild for me, have a.
Good night, Scotty man. Now I kind of want to go in a family vacation with Scotty's family. It sounds like it's fun. Hi, Hi, who is this?
I love?
So?
I love?
Yes?
Uh, what's going on with you today?
There's plenty, but I told the call screener, I, okay, I have a weird name. I'm Eastern European and I grew up for Eastern European. Right that being said, I have a lot of friends who are the same way as me, one being my best friend, who I've known since I was two, and like within the last two years, he's told me that he's in love with me and
that we're going to get married. But I strongly believe he's gay, and I've heard stories, but he doesn't know that I know any of that, and I'm wondering if I should tell him.
Okay, so you have this childhood friend who claims they're in love with you, but you believe they are gay.
Yep, And oh, okay. Me personally, when I I'm just an anxious human being. When I hear people like come up to me and tell me, hey, I heard this about you, I get super embarrassed, even if it's not true, and I feel like being gay, there's nothing to be embarrassed about whatsoever. If he's gay, more power to him. He should just tell me so I can be there welcome.
Well, okay, so hold on. So but before we get into him, tell me about you. Do you have romantic feelings for this guy? No.
I look at him and okay, he's like conventionally attractive. I have a boyfriend and I got a boyfriend in the last three years, and they don't get along. Because I've told my boyfriend how he's told me he likes me. Obviously, I have to tell my boyfriend that. Sure, But I grew up with him, like, I love him so much like a brother, and I don't with my friends, my friends. He's tried to make me jealous by dating myself.
So hold on, you said Ila, You said yes, Isla. So here's kind of like just off the bat is, Like, you know, I think the reason I asked you is if you like him back, because that's the only thing that I think matters here. You know, you speculating about your friend's sexuality. I think you're doing it from a nice place. Well, hold on, give you the second. I think it's okay, it's okay. I think you're doing it from a nice place. I think you're coming at it from like I want him to tell me so that
I can be there for him. And you know, I think, like I said, you're doing it from a kind place. But you have to understand, you know, whether whether or not like this guy's sexuality in terms of the question of him liking you is irrelevant. The only thing that's relevant is whether or not you like him back, and
you don't. And so at this point with your friend, whatever you have heard, whatever you are speculating, is irrelevant because if your friend wants to come out to you and come out to the way, he'll do it on his own time, and you know, you can let him know. You can let him you can, and you can let him know however you want to, in whatever subtle way, not necessarily saying hey, I heard this, and just say you know, if this, then this, but just just let
him know that you were supportive friend. In general.
I try to bring it up and he like, but I'm but I try to be extremely vague, so it's like really bad the way that I'm like, I'm just trying to get it out of him, and we're both super accepting people. But I don't think he'll ever admit it to like anyone, let alone himself. And that's love.
You don't you don't need to feel bad, you don't need to keep speculating about his sexuality. You don't, I don't even don't think about it, don't worry about it. It's it's all you should be doing.
I don't have to worry about with myself and how I feel.
And well there's that, but I listen, just just just be a good friend to this person. Don't keep thinking about their sexuality. Don't try to like get them to admit anything to you. They'll they'll do it on their own time.
But I kind of feel like I'm being a bad friend to him because I'm keeping the secret from him. Like, hey, people are saying that, Like we grew up in a
really small town and we still live here. Like if you go to a bar, you're going to be at the bar with every person you went to high school, middle school with and their parents pretty much, right, And all these people know this about him, and like they've told me, and I feel like he's the only person that doesn't know people are saying this about him.
Okay, so what I tell him you? Okay, so you're trying to decide whether or not you should report the rumors that other people yeah.
To him because I've been holding it in for like almost two years now, Okay, can I tell you what the rumor is. Sure, and there's a reason why I think it's true. So he's like a gym guy, right, he's a bodybuilder. He's like strong, and apparently he's been hooking up with the bartender who's also like a dream a dym rat from those two bars in my town, from one of the local bars, he's been hooking up
with him. And Christmas Day, me and him, we went to his family's like Christmas like breakfast, and then after he was like, Hey, I'm gonna go get that can I say weed of marijuana from his buddy? And it was and he brought me with him, but it was the most weird interaction and it was him in the sky and he like gave him like freed and.
Like, okay, give me a second. I think we're getting.
No.
No, you're you're you're totally fine. I'm glad that we're talking about this, but just give me a second here, because I think you're talking about these You're I'm the one who said sure, so I'll take the blame for you explaining that, but I'm thinking about it.
I'm a talker, so it's unnervous and tell me to shut up.
Okay, it's okay, Okay. So here's the thing. I think that again. You know, you didn't know you're coming at everything with good intentions. You know, you're like, should I tell my friend because hold on, yes, okay, it's okay, it's okay, okay, you're coming at everything with good intentions. You know, you're like, Okay, people are talking shit about my friend. It is my duty as a friend to
report when they're talking shit. And on that note, as to whether or not it's your duty to report any shit talk or rumors going on about your friend, I don't know. I'm thinking about it. You're making me think about it right now, because on one hand, I really do believe that ignorance is bliss and your friend might just be completely better off not even knowing or thinking about these rumors, are knowing that they exist because what other people are saying about this guy is irrelevant to
him and his experience of life. And then on the other hand, it's like, Okay, maybe you feel like it's your duty to report these things and not just be ignorant about it. I don't know. I don't really have any answer to that. I think it's an interesting thing to kind of think about. But just listen. Whatever you do isila. Don't try to milk this or like speculate about your friend. Don't join into the rumors. Don't tell anybody else the rumors. Just try to ignore.
Them anyone talk about him.
Be in your head thinking about always my friend hooking up with this part. Just be a friend to this guy and I And if I were you, I would I think you should just stop speculating on his sexuality and accept friend that he'll come out when he is ready to do so, if he is ready to do so.
But the friend thing, I'm torn with the friend thing as well because he says that he likes me and he feels a certain way, but I feel like he's kind of rude in the way that he goes about it. Like I feel like if I don't like him and I tell him I'm not interested, then he like doesn't talk to me for how over long? So it's like, am I really doing a favor for a friend by not telling him, because like he was really my friend?
This is this you just you just brought up a completely separate issue from anything that we've talked about.
I know, I know, I'm gonna say, I call you. I call you every time you're on stream. I get the notification. I call within like the first five minutes, and I never thought i'd get this far.
No, it's it's okay, it's okay. Just listen to me for a second. Okay, I'm gonna do. This is the last thing I'm gonna say to you. You're coming You're coming in here with like. Again. I think good intentions. You want to be a good friend. That's where we're operating from. I think it's a good place to operate from. But you're you're coming in here with like. Oh, I think there he might be this, and I think possibly this,
and maybe this and maybe this. If you what you just told me about how you think he's being rude about it, and you want to preserve the friendship, Okay, tell that to him. Tell that to him. Okay, And if he says to you and if and listen, if he says to you, listen, I like you too much. And because I like you, I can't just be friends with you, and so I have to live with the amount of contact I have with you. That's that's his boundary and you should accept that too. Okay, So just.
Way of thinking, and I feel like he's a little toxic, and I feel like it's the Eastern European in him. But I feel like he wouldn't go that way, like you wouldn't say that.
What do you think he would? Well? Okay, dude, well, dude, dude. Let you don't know what he would say unless if you fucking tell them. So sitting here wondering whether what he would say is under.
The conversation with him all the time. And I've had it with like my friends, all of our friends that we grew up together, like we can, like our families came to this country, like to America at the same time, so we all grew up together and like kind of similarly at home, Like I don't know, at school, I always felt like you had one foot in one door and then one out.
The other when you LISTENLA, is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?
Can I say something to you?
What's up?
I've called before to tell you this, but I found your podcast and I you have me thinking about like life situations in such a healthy, like way. Good and you literally seriously like the way that you like like process things that people say to you, and like the way you go about it is like so healthy and so cool, and I really appreciate it. It has me thinking about my life and like the way I respond to things in such a better way.
I'm going to try to I'm going to try to take my own Thank you. I appreciate that very much.
I'm gonna try to start all over the place I thought.
No, it's okay, I don't worry. But like I said, you're coming at it with good intentions, and I appreciate that. I'm going to try to take my own advice and uh, live live live better according to how I tell other people to live in my personal life.
So yeah, I feel like it's so easy to like say, like give people advice, but taking it at yourself it's the hardest start. But yeah, you're amazing. I look at things so much better now because of you, and I Yeah, I really wish I got to see you in Boston, but I.
Hope to see you next year in Boston, And good luck with your friends, and I will talk to you.
It was so good talking to you. Finally, have a rest of the day of your day.
Bye.
You know it's funny it's funny. It's funny, she said all this stuff. And then I said, you know, I'm trying to do it more in my personal life because I think what I told her of Like, I mean that interaction we had where I was like, I told her, Okay, why don't you tell him this? And she said, but if I tell him this, he's going to say this. And then I said, well, you don't know what he's going to say unless if you actually go and tell him. That's something I think I should do more in my
personal life. You know, that was an easy thing for me to tell someone because having tough conversation. It's so easy to tell somebody to go run and have a tough conversation. But I think it's harder, to harder to actually do it. So I'll think about that. I'm always try I'm trying to check myself more often. I'm like, i'd go on a podcast and talk to other people about their lives. I hope I practice things that I tell others, or it could just be a giant gecko
hypocrite guy. Anyway, Thank you Isla for did I say that right? Isla? Thank you for talking to a get go on the phone. He'sla. Hello, Hello, what's new with you?
Nothing much? I saw you out in Denver on Wednesday.
Your live shows are super good.
Oh fuck yeah, no, thanks for coming to the Denver show Man. That was That was fine. That was crazy. I felt really good about that one.
No, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's such a fun show.
What's going on with you? My friend? What is it that you called in to talk about?
I wanted to call you about something called monkey time. It's been happening to me since middle school.
Yeah, it says here. That says here you wanted to talk about monkey time. And I saw that and I was like, what the hell is that? And I figured the only way to answer that question is to ask you.
So monkey Time has happened since middle school. So basically what happens is I'd be hanging out with my friends, like four guys, and at some point in the night they'd see monkey time and they would pin me to the ground and tickle me until I screamed like a monkey.
Okay, now when did this start happening?
So this started happening I would say sixth seventh grade.
And how long has it been going on for.
The last monkey time? Maybe a year ago? But I've since moved from my hometown, so the monkey times aren't as frequent.
And how old are you know?
I am twenty three?
Okay, so you were having monkey time from seventh grade up until you were twenty two years old?
Yeah?
And is monkey time always directed towards you? Or is there a rotating sort of victim of the monkey time?
That's the thing, Ryle, It has always just been me. There is no other person that takes a monkey time.
Interesting. Why do you think your friends have designated you as the consistent monkey time taker?
You know?
I think it's because I am extremely ticklish and I'm not quite as strong as them, so I'm very easy to overpower and tickle.
Okay. Uh, how do you feel about being the constant subject of monkey time?
Powerless?
Interesting? Uh? Do you wish that your friends would stop doing monkey time on you?
Sometimes?
I do, but it's kind of nice to know that it's my thing. I'm special in my own way.
Interesting. So, so you feel does a small part of you feel a sense of pride in being the constant subject of the monkey time?
Yes? And uh, some of my friends are actually up in town right now, and I'm worried it might happen. They're downstairs, but if you want, you can talk to one of them about monkey time?
Oh sure, yeah? Who can I talk to? Who invented the monkey time? Can I can I talk to them?
I think the maker is in a different state.
But okay, sure, I'll talk to one of your friends.
I'll give you to a big instigator. Great, they're both really scared to pick one of them. I'm putting Brock on.
Okay, I'm not doing well.
Hey, Brock, what's going on?
Nothing much? How's it going?
So, Brock? I heard about monkey Time? Oh yeah yeah, Well in your words, how would you how would you describe monkey time?
You know, it sort of just started as a friendly thing. We Teith was really really good at me, Like when we tiggled him, he sound exactly like a monkey. So it started off as that and that'd be a joke. We just like passed by him in the hallways, give him little touch on the side, and he screamed like a monkey, and we all thought it was hilarious.
So you say it started friendly, did it then become hostile?
No? No, he's always been friendly.
Okay, actually, kay, what's your friend's name again?
Keith?
Okay, can talk to Keith real quick.
Yeah, definitely. Let me pass the phone back.
Hey, Keith, can I hear this monkey noise? Oh?
I can try and recreate it?
Like, how would you feel about doing a monkey time right now.
On the phone?
All right, I'll be consenting to it, so it'll be better than usual.
Okay, good, all right, I'm gonna try and do this. So so sorry, are you gonna get your friends?
Yeah?
Yeah, he's right here. It's gonna happen.
All right, all right, you're good to go back.
I'm good, okay, Lyle. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's a uh I think I'm too nervous to uh do a natural monkey noise.
Okay, I mean you don't have to do it if you don't want to.
Yeah, I try it though.
Okay. So I mean you say you're nervous, do you do you not like monkey time?
You know, for a long time I didn't like monkey time. It did bother me for a while. But now I've been I feel like I've gained power back by going out of town. I've been working on myself, but then going to the gym, and now I think if they do try and monkey timey right now. I think I can fight back. I think I'll be strong enough.
Mm. I like this arc that you've developed for yourself. Were you once we're weak and now you are strongly You're like a monkey they turned into a gorilla.
Yeah, and my dream is to one day give monkey time to one of them.
Ah. Do you feel as though committing monkey time upon one of them would serve as a retribution for all the monkey time that has been bestowed upon you?
Yeah? Yeah, I think it would be a good I know revenge isn't good, but I think it would be a healthy thing for me and maybe them too.
Well. Listen, Keith, I hope that you eventually get whatever it is you're looking for rut of this entire monkey time debacle.
Thank you.
And before we do you have friends outside of these friends?
Yes?
Okay?
Good?
They when I bring a monkey time to them for a while, they're a little disturbed about it.
Yeah.
I think you have to be there, you know.
Yeah, you know, I think that you uh, searching for perspectives outside of your friend group on monkey time is a good thing.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Sayment.
I'll talk to you soon, Keith.
All right, Thanks Lyle.
Hello, folks, it is Lyle. Lately, I've been ending my Sunday podcasts with an excerpt from my street interview segments, and I'm excited for you guys to listen to this one. It's a conversation I had on the campus of Harvard University in Boston with a very smart student who is navigating her way through life, through trying to be a high achiever, through dealing with other people's expectations. And I just really enjoyed having this talk on the campus of
Boston University. And I'm gonna Boston of Harvard University. I don't even know where I am anymore. Okay, all right, I'm gonna shut up. I hate ramboly intros. I would rather you guys just listen to the conversation without me having to explain anything. But I'm here to explain the jarring contrast between the phone calls and hearing me out in public talking to real people. So that is why I am recording this. Okay, anyway, let's get into it. What's up, man, what's your name? I'm Nya, nice to
meet you. I'm Lyle. I'm a Gecko guy.
How's it like? What's it like being a gecko.
It feels good. I like not being anything, if that makes sense, Like you're nia, you're a person, you exist. I'm perceiving you right now. Me I'm gonna theorial gecko. I don't. I don't. I'm not really here right now. I'm here, I don't. Actually, that's a good point saying. Do you feel as though you're here right now?
But I'm not sure if you're here.
Are you good at living at naya right?
Yes?
Now? Are you good at living in the moments?
I think I'm here right now?
So yeah, okay, okay, let's be in the moment. Then what do you What are you all about, Naya? What's give us a baseline of your life, a baseline of my life? Yeah, I'd love to hear.
Well.
I was born and raised in South Carolina, but my family's Syrian. Okay, so, got a lot of cultures going on. I really love the brain. So I'm studying neuroscience.
Oh my god, that sounds that sounds difficult. There's even an expression. It's not brain surgery.
Right, And I want to be a brain surgeon.
You want to be a brain I want to let me ask you this because this one of the first people that sat down told me that he was having a really hard time because he's in a tough major and he is, you know, very passionate about what he does. But it feels like it doesn't have enough time to go live life and do other things, and you're doing one of the hardest things a person could attempt to do. How do you carve time for other aspects of your life?
Well, seeing like I got three hours of sleep last night, Oh my goodness, time gets.
Carved out there. But I don't know. I believe if you say you're gonna do something, you.
Just do it.
We just do it.
Yeah, do you do you do break easily?
No, I've been through I've been through some ship.
Okay, yeah, okay. So you feel like in the past, your your life has prepared you for this experience of attempting to do something very challenging.
Yeah, Like, I've wanted to Harvard has been my dream since I was four, really since forever, and I wanted to do it. And now that I'm here, I owe it to like everyone that helped me to get here, to just keep doing what I was.
Who can tell me about the people that helped you to be here?
My parents probably the best people I've ever met. Okay, very tough, very tough, very Arab immigrant parents, very crazy. Uh, my best friend Emily raf Bella, like, I have some really great friends in my life.
So you're I want to talk about your parents. What kinds of you said? They were very tough? What kinds of like things did they instill upon you or things growing up that you feel like shaped you into who you are today.
So when I was in first grade, this one is my favorite story because now we're at Harvard. When I was in first grade, I brought home a spelling test and I got a seventy. The words were stupid, right, It's like, I don't know putting, Like it's first grade. But I was like, you think Harvard takes kids who
got who get seas well? Harvard did, But like that's kind of the thing, like there's a there was kind of there was always pressure, yeah, but then after a while, like you internalize like your own drive.
Interesting. Yeah, So they give you the pressure and then it's kind of like you're on a bike and they're pushing it with their pressure and then they let go and then you have your own wheels of pressure that are spinning and making it go forward and then like.
With a bike, you're gonna fall, Okay, you're gonna get back up the end.
Okay.
It's like it sounds like so stupid, But I do believe that if you like when you when you believe you're gonna do something, you just do it.
Interesting, have you experienced attempting to do things and failing at them many times and misering getting here? And how do you bounce back from those failures.
I like to think that I'm an optimist. I like to think that I've romanticized life, because otherwise, like everything is horrible. If it's not a learning experience, then you're gonna think it's horrible.
Sure.
Yeah, So like in the past two years, I've gotten rejected from a lot of things, and if I give it time, in the next month, I actually get an opportunity that was way better in the first place.
Interesting.
Yeah, wait, time everything works out. I fully believe it.
I agree with that. I feel that every time I go and sit out here, like you know, sometimes nobody wants to come talk. Sometimes we get an interview that doesn't go well, but then you push past it. You get to talk to some interesting people. I've been learning that myself.
No, because I'm happy you're here right now, like wholeheartedly. I liked.
I've been thinking to myself that if you do more bold, random things, then you just become a bolder person.
What's the last bold random thing that you did?
It was our friend's birthday like two days maybe yesterday, two days ago, and I thought it'd be funny to stand on the table in Annenberg, our dining hall and to get the cafeteria to sing Happy Birthday.
Did you successfully do it?
I have done it before, and I've done it when it's not actually anyone's birthday.
Oh wow, you seem like you're very good at putting yourself out there.
I'm doing it because I'm not very good at it in high school. Yes, I wasn't very good at it at least, And now I'm doing it because why.
Not exposure therapy? Just like ye brute force, I'm gonna get so I feel so uncomfortable with doing this thing that I gotta do it to to learn.
Yeah, my Like, I started journaling and meditating, and like the word I wrote down for this year at was unapologetic. Unapologetic, So like everything is either you're being unapologetic or you're gonna wonder what if?
Do you have any what ifs that you've left on the table.
No, but I read this quote that was like, the only regrets you have in life is wishing you had been more empathetic in a situation. Like, I don't regret anything, because the point that I'm at now is amazing, like tearing my I told my aco playing soccer, and I always said like if only I hadn't done that, we would have won state championships whatever. But then I created my research project out of it, and I wrote about that in my Harvard like application, and now I'm here.
Ah, you think that because that you know, it's it's funny that when a thing like that happens, that's bad and you couldn't even possibly think of a way that it could turn into a good thing, and then it turns into a good thing. Yeah, in a weird way.
It's like I still I literally still have right me pain, so like I can't play soccer, but now I'm walking onto the crew team hopefully.
So why brain surgery? Was it just kind of like a Mount Everest? We did it because it was so hard thing?
No, I definitely don't think I'm that type of person, because like, I get very I think a lot, and I overthink sometimes, and I'm usually the friend that like feels events like deeper per se, like we just may just feel them, you know, that like annoying person that goes like, oh, I'm an EmPATH. I'm not that person, but I do think about that. But no brain surgery, because like I said, I've always thought just like very deeply, and I like would have the same experience as someone
and I just experience it differently. And I started wondering why, And then I came across like consciousness, like how do I think about my own thinking and like my experience right now, and like why am I thinking so differently? And so with that comes neuroscience. And I've always known I wanted to be some sort of doctor. I really love medicine. So as I fell in love with neuroscience,
I just thought to myself, what is more vulnerable? Like what is the biggest test of trust than to hold someone's thinking in your own hands?
Wow? Interesting? Does learning about the brain and how it works key you in a lot to your own methods of thinking?
I think it's interesting because I found a lot of like thinking about my own thinking through meditation and on that path, Like, I don't think neuroscience is exactly it, but it's more so just the observation of everything going on. Like my favorite thing is that because I'm so talkative and I do a lot of stuff, people never think I'm actually observing what's going on. But I really like
observing my friends. My favorite thing to do is to ask them if they have siblings, and no matter what their answer is, just say, interesting, you have a younger brother, I have an older sister.
Interesting, I see.
I say that. Do your friends ever like feel feel too perceived around you because you're observing them so much?
I think yes, And like, because we're here now and we're like meeting new people, sometimes people might not like they think you know how some people do they just want to have fun, and like, I think I'm a fun person, but I'm a very like deep person as well. I don't love the lighthearted fun like I need some
sort of I need more to it. Okay, So a lot of my friends will like feel like they're being perceived when they're being around me, And at first it's a little vulnerable because I'm the person like I don't text one words. I text paragraphs, So I think it's fun because I'm perceiving them. And then when they're upset and I like know the upset but they haven't like clued us in, it's more fun for me because then you can like help without saying why you're helping.
What does your idea of fun look like? If you're not into kind of just you seem like everything you do you want to get something out of it, not just like kind of hang out and vibe. Is that accurate?
I guess?
I also think though that, like I actually have one of my friends behind the camera right now. She's a very fun person. She is the lighthearted, fun like giggly person. So like here at Harvard, like I can do the fun stuff, but I also really like going to coffee shops and just like having a drink and talking.
Are you talk to strangers a lot around I'll.
Talk to strangers.
I don't know if I have as much as possible, but like most of my friends actually are like people that I saw online on Instagram that are we're going to Harvard and I just like I slid in the.
Ms splitting in their dms. Yeah, that's is that how you met your friend behind the camera.
Actually I met her at so Visitas is like the Harvard visit weekend, and we were at like a little like mixer fundraiser or something was going on, super tight room, and she came up to me and she started talking to like the people that were around me, but not to me.
And I was like, oh, purpose she was like this, what is this?
So I could have been offended, but I kind of thought it was funny. So afterward I just went up to her and I was asked her for a snap. I was like, hey, that was pretty funny, like whatever, and now she's everywhere, so.
Wow, I love I love that. That's like you you changed your perception, you took control of it. You were like, I am not going to be offended. I am going to make this a productive thing. And then you reached out and now you guys are friends, and that's a really powerful thing to do. I feel like that's the kind of stuff that happens when you do all this stuff that you're talking about of being conscious of your own thoughts and trying to be mindful.
I'm really trying.
I think I've had like a struggle with being unapologetic because, like, I don't know, I'm a loud person. I'm a six foot tall girl. Like I guess you can't tell because I'm seated, but I don't know. I really like how I've been handling myself since I've come here, and so I'm proud of that.
That's awesome. It's also cool that you know these practices are having like real life effects that are changing your timeline positively, things like you meeting her and everything that you've done to get here at Harvard. I want to know what things in the future that you're uncomfortable with are you trying to become more comfortable with because you
seem like you're always trying to improve upon things. Is there anything that you're trying to improve upon your next mountain that you're gonna climb at all?
Well, I was just talking with some one, how like there is fifteen years between now and whenever I could be an attending surgeon. Yeah, and within those fifteen years anything could happen. I could injure one of my fingers, I could anything could happen, Like I could not be a surgeon, I could hate neuroscience. I could go into consulting like a lot of the ECON kids here, I probably won't.
I will.
I think I'll stay with neuroscience because, like I said, if I believe something to do it, I'm uncomfortable with the idea that I'm so driven. Am I gonna miss out on something?
Yeah? Sure, And I think just.
But being uncomfortable, I will. I will just wholeheartedly plug my favorite like YouTube collective of all time, Yes Theory. Their motto is seek discomfort. So when you ask me if I'm uncomfortable, I'll be like, Okay, yeah I'm uncomfortable.
What do you think that you might miss?
I'm not sure.
I think being someone who's been so passionate and like I'm from South Carolina, we don't know the same resources that kids like up here or in California know about, like getting to college, Like I had to apply for every club of all time, try to be a leader in all of them, like focus on my grades, and I know, like I had a different high school experience than a lot of my friends. So like I had FOMO for a while long time, I was like, did I miss something? But I'm I'm still happy I'm here.
But it's also just like it's uncomfortable knowing you didn't experience things like other people might have.
Well, I feel like and you were you were alluding to this too, like you you had what you wanted to do, and so you're doing it. And if you're gonna do that, you know, you're all whatever you do. If you if you were to indulge in the things that you felt like you were missing, you'd be missing that. There's always an opportunity cost of anything that you're doing. And it's it's I myself struggle with, like, you know, thinking about opportunity costs a lot. I think a lot
of people do. I think a lot of people I have talked to today do. But that's all. It's just it's just an acceptance of the fact that there's always gonna be an opportunity cost. You're never gonna get to do everything.
I just love that you said opportunity costs because my friend behind the camera, she's always saying opportunity costs. Because they're in X ten right now. That's actually the class. And I just joined the crew team. This morning was our first practice, six thirty am. I just found out I got into the clubs I wanted like I'm I'm really, I'm really like throwing the net wide.
Yes, sure, and I know that.
Opportunity cost is gonna come into place soon. But at the end of the day, like I think, things will work out, and then once they work out, you're not gonna wonder like what could have been, because you're gonna be happy with where you are, I hope.
So what's your name again?
No?
I got it. I'm always forgetting people's names.
And you're not just Gecko. You have a name, Lyle Lyle.
Yes, Lyle very nice to meet you. Is the anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go? I love y'all.
That's about it?
NA.
Yeah, oh man, that was interesting stuff. It's it's cool to hear people who I've tacked down to talk to you today all have like very you know, similar issues with each other. Uh, because I feel like people a lot, just with anyone having any issue tends to feel like they could be like alone in it, you know, and and having people come and talk about what's going on with them and these struggles of opportunity costs or of Oh I'm focusing on this so I have to neglect that.
How do I deal with that. It's it's a common uh experience between people. I myself for a while, I had had a period. I was overwhelmed by all of the options that the earth has of what to do with the time I have before in between birth and death. And I'm trying my best to not think about that opportunity cost. And she was awesome. It was just great talking to her about everything, and I wish her well in her quest to being uncomfortable. Never Being goes on
the line taking your phone calls every night. Never Being goes to what his d's teaching you to loud in the meaning of your life. But he's not really an expert.