Hey, what's up is this Charles.
Ave It?
Oh?
This is the gecko guy?
What?
What the fuck? What's up?
Man? Dude? How you doing?
I'm doing good? How are you?
Uh? I just pulled into the liquor store. I got done grocery shopping.
How what did you get?
I went to Sam's Club, So just bulk stuff like paper towels and spounges and shit.
How many paper towels? Uh? Came in the bulk paper towel unit that you guys?
I think it's like a forty pack?
Forty pack? How long do you think that'll last you?
A year?
Probably like three months? Four months?
Yeah? What are you using all those paper towels on?
Uh?
I mean my girlfriend has a really bad habit spilling stuff, so instead of dirty and rags, she just likes to grab paper towels.
Do you think the onus of environmental conservation is on the people or or on like the governments and the corporations.
I'm not a big paper towel person, but she needs them, so that's why I get them. Same with paper plates. I come home and there's paper plates in the cupboard all the time.
Yeah. No, I agree with that perspective. Anyway, Charles, your name is Yeah, what's up?
Man? What I know?
So crazy? I've been listening to you for like since the pandemic. I got into you, and then I showed you to my girlfriend and she listens to you every time you post a new one on her way to work because she works down she like works an hour away from where we live.
Cool. Well, what does she do?
She's like a Whole Foods like manager person. She works at Whole Foods.
Does she come home a lot with like stories of like people being shitty to her at Whole Foods?
Uh?
Yeah, A bunch of like homeless people too, because it's like right downtown, a bunch of homeless people that like make shit all over the toilet seats and everything. It's pretty gross me and customers. I hear that all the time. Also famous Beeple too tranded, Charlie Day not too long ago?
Really?
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Are you guys in Los Angeles?
No, man, we're in Utah? Oh yeah, what.
Are all these famous people doing in Utah?
So surprisingly, there's like quite a bit of films I get filmed around like Salt Lake and and like the mountains and stuff, and like downtown like towards Provo, and a lot of Ogden, like Ogden's where we're from, and like Halloween's been filmed up here. Like, uh, there's this Chivy Chase movie that was also filmed up here. Like a bunch of older like eighties and like mid nineties movies were filmed in Augden. Dumb and Dumber was filmed in Ogden and in Salt Lake.
Charles, you sent me a bunch of texts? Can I read a few of them? Is that?
Okay? Yeah, that's cool.
Oh, some of them are a little uh, some of them are at least a year old. But I'll bring Yeah, dude.
I've been trying to I've been I downloaded Twitch so I could like get your messages and then like I was sitting watching that, I'll call and I'll message. So this is actually kind of crazy, man, like not gonna lie.
Okay, you know, I'm gonna I'll just start going through the list because there's a lot of stuff here. Yeah, okay, first when you text me, was I stuck a knife four inches into my chest last year?
Yeah? That did happen?
Well, what was up with that?
Uh?
Let me go through the thought process of it all. So I was in a really bad place in life, and I was a severe, severe alcoholic, Like I like to have a drink every now and then, like it's the weekend, you know, So yeah, I like to have a little bit of whiskey here in there. But I was in a really abusive relationship with my ex and she like beat the shit out of me and just kind of treated me like absolute shit. And I hit a one night there was just like the straw that
broke the camel's back. I had a drink like a whole handle a jim Beam, and then like half a big bottle of Nadrill, And I remember laying on the couch and just grabbed the knife and I just kind of like I held it and then just stuck it deep into my chest. I got a giant hole like where it is like when I flexed my peck like an indentse And yeah, I woke up in the ICU. I remember seeing this old lady like telling me I can't leave, and I kept telling her to fuck off, and she's like, no, you can't leave.
I was like fuck you.
And then yeah, I woke up in the ICU with I got a big zipper from my belly button into my pubiccare from like they had to go there and I got a big scar on my back where they had to take a piece of my lung out everything. It was. It's pretty gnarly.
Yeah.
I got a great girlfriend now though, she's very supportive and loving and wonderful person.
So you were drunk. So you were drunk and four inches is no fucking joke. I mean that's really that's in you.
Yeah, it's it was.
I punctured my diaphragm and like it was. It was pretty I mean, it's a giant invent in my chest. Man.
And you woke up in the end, so somebody called, Yeah, it was my ex and do you still have? Like this was okay, So this was two years ago then, because you sent me the text to you.
Yeah, this was almost going on you almost going on three years?
Do you uh do you still have? I mean, I know you still have the hole in your chest? Do you are there any other like lasting things?
I'm like kind of like I wouldn't say paralyzed, but you know that feeling like when you sit on your hands for too long or something and it goes asleep and sal keenly. Yeah, that effect is still kind of like underneath my bicep and like my peck and everything, and it's like super sensitive to touch. Like my girlfriend will be like laying on me and then like touch it and it kind of like gives me a little jolty, going m hm.
You sound like you're you're doing better now than you were when you did that.
Oh yeah, wonderful. Man, I'm kicking ass. I've been at my job for like five years now. I mean me and this girl, my new girl. Uh, we've been together about we're celebrating our two year anniversary coming up here like next week.
So that's dope. Cool.
We've been trying to do all the fall stuff.
Yeah, it's so crazy.
I'm on the phone with the gek dude.
What's it.
Yeah, you got you guys just like you guys go to like the pumpkin patch and shit.
Uh, she wants to go hit up a haunted house tomorrow because we got them local and like corn mazes and shit.
That's cool. How old is your girlfriend?
She's thirty one and got to be thirty two next months. So early birthdays and I'm I'm I had thirty four. I turned thirty five in May. When did you a little older than most of the people out here on here?
Yeah, I feel like that. I feel like there's a solid eighteen to forty.
Range going on, that's true.
When did you meet your girlfriend?
Like?
Where'd you meet her?
Oh?
I met her on Hinge?
Actually that's cool. I'm yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Oh no, yeah.
No.
She's originally from San Jose and she had moved out here because she like was dating some dude and then she moved out to like Salt Lake to be with him. And then I guess he turned out to be a total dirtbag and was kind of a piece of shit. And then I was just I wasn't dating women for a while after all that whole thing with my ex happened. I was kind of like, you know, here and there dating, But I had came across her on Hinge and we like met and hung out and we kept doing that.
And then next thing, you know, like we're sitting there talking and she's in a rough pot, like a rough patch, and I was in a little studio and she ended up hating to always stay with me, and she kind of like gracefully moved her stuff in and I was like, I'm cool with it, but I was like telling her, like, you know, I just got out of this nutty, extra like past relationship, so you know, things need to be kind of these are the ground rules of kind of
how I am and everything. And she just she was always there for me and just always caring and just whatever I needed to talk like, she was there. And next thing you know, it's like we're full blown living together. And I got a bigger apartment in the same building that we lived in, and we did that for like the rest of my lease, and then just this year we moved into a new two bedroom so it's a bigger place. It's actually a lot nicer. So yeah, things are going great.
Bro, that's awesome. I love this. I love I gotta say this podcast is like it's a lot of it is truly therapy for me because I'm I'm I'm I'm terrified of like being I'm like, the idea of being on hinge in my thirties just yeah, that fucking sounds awful. But it worked out. But I'm like, Okay, it worked out for you.
Yeah, Well, I feel like, I mean, I'm not to sound conceded or anything. I feel like I'm a decent looking dude. Like I'm six three, like two hundred pounds, like I got green eyes. I'm a pretty decent looking dude. I guess you could say so.
But and my girlfriend's beautiful.
So, like I said, not just sound conceited or anything, but like the dating apps never really scared me or anything. I'm honestly worse talking on the dating apps than I am in person. Yeah.
I feel like that's probably most people.
Yeah, it's weird, like you don't have the more context of everything.
Well, let's see. Okay, so I'm gonna keep going down the list.
Yeah, no, go ahead.
You texted me, Actually, you texted me all these on the same day. You said, my dog is fourteen, and I don't know how I'm gonna handle him passing away.
Yeah.
We he passed away in March of this year.
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
Man.
Yeah, that was my buddy. I got him since he was a puppy.
I'm sorry.
It was It was really rough, and luckily Laurna was there with me, so she u helped it with everything, and I got a nice little cedar box and he hangs out in the living room. With us all the time, so it's it's still rough. Sometimes I'll go through pictures and just like, look at all the fun times of him in the in the river and just us hanging out, and we would go to the bars together downtown and everybody, like all the patrons would just love him, and he
would just love everyone there. So he was welcoming all the bars downtown.
How about this? Uh, I need somebody. Then you then you texted me this three months after texting me those things. You said, I need some advice about being an adult.
Oh, well, man, I'm barely remembering any of these honestly. Well, I mean, fuck, are you an adult? I don't. We don't have kids yet or anything, so I don't feel like I'm adulting adult thing. But all my bills are paid and I have a full time job and health and dental and optic like insurance, So I feel like I'm adulting enough at the moment.
Mm hmm. You know, and you don't remember, Yeah, I am I an adult? No, I feel like you're not a real adult. I feel like the the level of adultness that you are is directly, in my opinion, directly proportional to the amount of things external to you that require you to exist.
Yeah, I mean having a child is the biggest one. Like, I got two twin cousins and they're twenty four and one of them already has three children.
No shit, that's crazy, that's wild.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, he's already living the dad life at twenty four. And at twenty four I was a major pothead and also kind of a drug user back in the day.
So are you planning on having kids? Do you want? Is that something you want? At some point?
We have talked about it, actually, you know, because we're not getting any younger, and you know, we're both set up pretty good with like our jobs and everything, and we always want to pursue better like routes and all that. But it's it's been in the it's been in the works talking about it and everything.
Mm hmmmm hmm. What did you do You remember anything about what you said you needed advice on for being an adult when you sent this text?
I really don't, man, It was probably just one of those like I heard you and I was just like spam texting you. Yeah, so it was probably just one of those stupid things. I don't I honestly never thought I would get a call from the get go. This is pretty nuts, man.
Okay, I'm gonna keep going. You said my girlfriend is a witch?
What the fuck? Yeah? I don't remember any of these.
Yeah, she kind of can be. This was when I took mushrooms though, I had ate like an eighthick mushrooms, and she had like came home from work and for some reason, just like her whole face kind of like kept morphing into that old witch lady from Snow White and the Seven Doors, you know what I'm talking about, with like the ward on her nose. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she kind of kept morphing into that. So I kind
of I kept calling her a witch that night. So I think this was around that time when all this was going down.
Hm hmm.
You seem like you got a good lie, you know, honestly, the fact that you seem like for having gotten drunk and I got when you stab when you stab yourself with the knife, were you like, were you trying to kill yourself or were you just like.
I'm oh, yeah I was.
I was.
No, I was trying to I was trying to end it, man, like I was. I was done. But then for some reason, that old that old fucking lady. Like it was so weird, Like you know what a ches like a cheese grader, a metal cheese grad. Yeah, so you like flip it on its side and then look in it and it has all the holes and shit.
Yeah, like I was.
I was inside of a fucking cheese grader. And then like at the end of it was like this old lady and like a black coat and I couldn't really see her face, and she kept telling me I couldn't fucking leave and I kept saying, fuck you bitch, get me out of here. And then yeah, next again, I woke up in a nice U.
So, man, I and what this You were like you were thirties, thirty one something like that.
Ye, so yeah about thirty one.
Yeah, man, now you're you seem like you're doing pretty well. Now you seem like you don't want to kill your No.
Man, life's fucking awesome. I've always thought life is beautiful, but you know, it can it can be a bitch at times. I mean, when isn't it. It's like everyone has their problems, Like I mean, we just My mom's kind of going through a tough time right now. She's a she just got out of the ICU yesterday and we went down and saw her in Salt Lake. So she's not doing so well. So that's another worry to my adultingness, I guess.
But still, I mean, you're doing you're doing uh, I mean all these things, right, I mean, you tried to kill yourself three years ago, thirty one. Now you're doing now, you seem like you're doing well. You seem like you like life. You seem like you're not near doing that again. Your dog passed away, which was I'm sure tough, but you're still but you're still here. You're still here, You're still doing it. I don't know, I'm inspired by your existence.
I really this is one of the things I like doing about this show, and maybe one of the reasons
people like listening to is. I don't know, I just there's something, really, there's just something reassuring about like observing a life that's been like lived and and seeing it presently just to be like, because because you know, when you're in that thing where you want to kill yourself, you really you just truly are doing it because you you you can't bro yeah, you just you just can't possibly imagine that there's a future in which you are. You don't want it to like fucking kill yourself. And
so it's yeah, and it's just cool. It's cool talking to you and being like, oh, well you know you there that exists.
Yeah.
It was just a whole conglomerate of things that led up to that. Like I had just gotten back from Mexico, and because I took a week vacation in Mexico, down in Guadalaa or yeah, Gudalaa or something Gudala yeah, Guadalajara, and the only ended up my job only paid me like three days of vacation pay, and I ended up flipping out and like walked out, which is the same job I'm still at. And I it's funny, I didn't
ask for my job back. My boss called me literally like two days after I got out of the hospital and asked if I wanted to come back to work, and I was like, well, I got a funny story for you, but just that, and then like I didn't have a job at the moment, and I didn't want to go on unemployment and then I was drinking like a handle of whiskey a day, like and then just completely out of it, and I didn't have a car.
I felt unmotivated. I felt just like a worthless piece of shit that was just like existing and just you know, like after my ex was telling me that she was fucking the neighbor and then she was fucking this dude. And I'm just drunk as fuck on whiskey. And I grabbed a big bottle of Benagerial eight half of it and then finished it with the rest of my handle and I went in and grabbed the sharpest chef knife that I have, and I just I sat there for
a minute and contemplated and contemplated. I was like slashing it around my neck, so I kind of got some scars on my neck. And then after that, I just said fuck it and like I like drove it into my chest and yeah, I remember a bunch of blood coming out, and I said, I called her name, and then next thing and I like blacked out and woke up to then I see you, man, So yeah, I mean.
Tried, you tried to quit. Yeah, you tried to quit your job and quit life and you're yeah, and you're and you're employed and alive.
Still yeah, man, kicking ass like and I got a car now too, like and we got a cat. Our cat's pretty cool. She's an asshole to me, but she loves her mom.
Man.
Wait, so what's up with the drinking? Now?
Are you?
Are you sober? Are you still? I'm not a beer now? And then where you Atah?
Yeah, Like when don't get off work, I'll crack a couple of beers. Like I'll have like two or three when I get off work because I've been working like ten twelve hour shifts for the past like two and a half months now, so it's like, yeah, you get home, I'll crack a beer and then usually on the weekends, I'll get like a little bottle of whiskey and then I'll just like kind of sip on it. Like my girlfriend got these little ice cubes. Then when you fill
them up, they turned into little bulldogs. So I'll like put it in a rock glass with my bulldog ice cube and then like sip on some whiskey and watch some YouTube or podcasts, you know, listening to music.
But you're not you're not getting dark with it.
No, no, no, no, not anymore.
That's good.
Yeah, the mushrooms have really fucking been great to me as well too.
Got Yeah, how often you do you do in the shrooms.
I went on a bender two weekends ago where I took like, I took a couple of grams because we went to a concert and I didn't want to be all trippy trippy. And then after that I left and I went over to my homies and got more and then ate him, and then I think it was like the weekend after that, I took like seven grams and literally had an ego desk and fucking this golden fucking flying eagle thing touched my shoulder and sent me on another trip to I don't know where the fuck it was,
but it was it was in lightning. M Well, yeah, I've slowed I've slowed down on it now because those batches are pretty fucking intense.
You know.
I said this to the last caller, who I like. Okay, for purposes of context, I'm probably going to put the person I talked to before you. I'm actually gonna probably put that call after this call when I put it in the podcast.
But uh oh, it's just going in the podcast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's going away. Yeah, but it's dope. I said to him. I guess you'll hear it because I'm gonna put after this thing. But I said to him that I'm I'm a little bit more afraid of getting older than I'd like to admit. But it's I know, you're you're thirty.
You're about to turn thirty five, right, yeah, thirty five?
Yeah, I don't know. I'm talking like talking to you and few and hearing like your kind of like life transformations and that you're like you're here and you're like present and living and stuff. It's like it's like calming to me in a weird way. Does that make sense?
Yeah, that's I mean, that's great to hear, you know. I mean, I honestly think the way that I kind of handle things lately, it's going to completely change after we do have children or a child, Like I can't be going off on the weekends and doing mushrooms and shit, you know what I mean. Like I won't say when a child gets put into the situation, I'm definitely gonna
have to look at life a little differently. But I've been through so many experiences of life where like I've been homeless before, like slept on church lawns, and I've gone through like a lot of addiction issues and like obviously alcohol and heavy drugs when I was way younger, and just for some reason, man, like, all you gotta do is just I got. I got a tattoo on each one of my butt cheeks. I got a smiley
face and a frownie face. So like, every time you start to have a bad daughter, a bad day, just turn the other cheek. You know what I mean as stupid is that I got that when yeah, I was I was going. I was liked it be cool to get a smiley face on one cheek and then a frownie paste on the other. So if you're ever having a bad day, do you just turn the other cheek?
So what's your what's your like m O these days? What's what's next for you in life? Uh?
Moving up in the company I work for is definitely on that. And then also I paint a lot. I've been on a painting kick late lately, So cool, do more paintings. Uh, hang out with a girlfriend, get outside a little more, and then yeah, just keep living.
Dude, are you in Are you in Salt Lake?
No?
We're in Ogden, Oh Town?
Okay? Is that it is that big city or like chill town?
It's it's a decent It's better than Salt Lake.
I'll say that.
Everyone talks shit on Ogden because we have a dog food factory here and you can like smell it sometimes and people call the dog food town. But it's honestly, it's a pretty cool little city. Like I just moved up here like almost ten years ago. So but yeah, I love it up here. She loves it up here.
We got good friends, I mean duck good jobs. Like, we got a lot of people that we can just reach out to and if you want to hang out, hang out, grab our kayaks and go to Kazi's because we got two big lakes literally like twenty minutes away from us.
So and when you did the knife thing, was that the first time that you tried to kill yourself or was there other times?
Oh?
Yeah, that was like I've had suicidal thoughts before of like overdosing and stuff, like you know, I could just goog get some Mari whin it overdose I want, but I don't know, just I was just not in the right state of mind and some reason, it just felt like a knife was like that's what I had. It was sharp as shit, and I just wanted to end it and I felt like that would have been the quickest way to do it. But you know, here I am.
Do you do you have suicidal thoughts ever? Or are they gone?
Uh?
No, they've been gone. I actually do see a real therapist as well.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, she's pretty cool. So yeah, I mean I've never I haven't had suicidal thoughts in a pretty long time, like ever since my girlfriend and I have been together, they've kind of been non existent.
Cool.
Yeah, it's pretty sweet.
Yeah, that's been awesome. Man.
What do you think?
Go ahead, what do you think? No, what do you think? What was?
Oh? What do you think it was?
Of just the no longer suicidal tendencies? Yeah, just the fact that, I mean I have such good family and such good friends and amazing girlfriends. I mean people at my job that actually care about me. And just where we live, like we have mountains every like three sixty around here. It's like so beautiful and just believes are starting to change and like it's just life. Is it sounds corny?
Dude?
Life's beautiful man, Like it's not worth you know, it's not your time when it's not your time?
So cool?
I like that.
Thanks for thanks for sharing this with me, Charles, thanks for for this talk. This was cool. I liked to talking to you about this.
No, I appreciate you calling me man. Like I said, I've been listening to you since around the pandemic. I came across to you, and I listened to you when I'm at work too, like I'll put on some of your episodes, and that dude with the Hurst honestly pretty dope. That yeah, that sounds sick. And then also the train hopping guy, big inspiration. That guy is. He's a tough one.
That guy is, he's a bonified GAK legends.
Yeah, that dude's a tough one.
Yeah, he's a bonified GAK legend. I'm getting, like, you know, text from people I know being like, oh I listened to that one.
Yeah, no, that that one really sucks. So that was a wholeheartedly great conversation.
Well ship, I'm glad. You know I say this too much, but yeah, five years of doing this podcast, I'm glad to still be having good calls like this one. So I appreciate you sharing your story with me. Yeah, Charles, is anything else you want to you want to say to the people the computer before we.
Go, No, just keep your head up, man, you know you got this ship even though it seems tough.
You got it.
Thank you, Charles, you ever go on?
Yeah, use one man?
That was Charles. I liked Charles. I like, you know, yeah, Sometimes it feels like I don't I'm just I don't know. I just like being candid. But sometimes it feels like kind of it feels difficult to like do this show. It feels like there's like an oil and it feels like oil and water. And then sometimes it just feels like it feels really natural and good and I'm like inspired by it still to this day, I don't know.
This is like an I have like a nihilistic uh uh uh pressure in my mind that tells me things like all war like all conversations have already been ad or whatever. But I'm still finding I'm finding a lot of inspiragenum being genuine. I'm finding a lot of inspiration out of the people, uh that I'm talking to on here still, and that's that's good. I you know, I hope people listening are too. Hello, what's up man? This is uh the Gecko guy.
Hey, Gecko guy, Lyle, what's uh, what's going on?
Not much?
Brother?
What's your name?
My name is Dustin.
Dustin. Have we ever spoken before?
Nope? First time calling in.
Very good, very cool. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell a story real quick, if that's cool with you. I tried to record this podcast yesterday and I failed. I I was live for maybe five minutes and I got about two minutes into a call with someone and then something in my brain was just like, I can't do this right now, and so I and I used to and this this has been happening to me the entire five years I've been doing this show, and at this point I just accepted as a fact of I
don't fight through it? Are you? Which one?
Are you? Are you?
Like?
I mean, it's obviously it's a thing that I guess you kind of sometimes have the privilege to do or whatever, But like do you do you fight through things or do you surrender?
I guess it really depends on on the thing and on like what's happening at the at the time. Yeah, yeah, no, that that's uh, it's fine. I was actually watching the stream when I saw that yesterday, Oh you were I was, yeah, And I thought it was really cool because I kind of I was like, oh, man, is he thinking right
now or is he like taking a beat? And I thought it was actually really cool that you like recognized where you're at and kind of, you know, very politely, was just like, hey, I can't do this right now, but let me make it up to you and walked away from it. I think that actually ties in really well to the story that I wanted to share.
You know what, I Dustin, you said your name was, Yeah, Dustin. I appreciate that I do because I felt I felt bad. This happens to me. There's nothing the worst thing that I've one of the worst things I've experienced doing this is when like I like someone like someone calls in and I can tell that they're excited to be on the show where to talk talk, and I'm just I just I search inside myself and there's insufficient funds of energy, you know what I mean. That's the fucking worst. And
it feel shitty when it happened. So I appreciate you saying that you appreciate did that, so so thank you. Anyway, I'm gonna stop talking about myself. I want to hear about the story you wanted to share.
No, yeah, I'm glad you brought up so so it actually it ties in well because the end of this, you know, to jump to the end. I was seeing this person and was kind of on the fence but like and like kind of not seeing it as being a big thing. But I had friends who were kind of moving me forward a little bit on like hey, man, like you sometimes cut things off before you give it a chance. That was like, okay, let's let's try this.
Let's try this thing out, and kind of you know, focused on communicating what I needed from this person and
like the pace I needed to go at. It seemed to be going fine, until like all of a sudden, there was this date that like was she was just kind of like really focused on any kind of physicality, which, like you know, of course, yeah, and that's nice, but when it's like progressively over a few hours, going from like like needing to hold hands at every second to like me communicating, hey, like can I just have a few minutes when we eat here, and then like you know,
by hour two or three, it was literally NonStop. The only thing that was getting talked about was like, hey, like I need a moment to just need a little space at.
The moment this is I'm this is the first date.
No, it was like week three with like you know, like one day to week yeah everything.
And she wanted to always be touching you and you weren't into that.
Yeah, just like in this moment where I was like I want to feel this out. I want to like just kind of experience what this is and let things happen naturally. But then it was like kept becoming like the stated communication, you know, and I'm sorry, sorry, just when it was like you know, I'm stating like I'm giving reasons, you know, and stuff like hey, you know, I'm not crazy about PDA. I'm not like you know, never don't even look my way. I'm not like that.
But I'm you know, communicating like, hey, you know, I have some feelings about just like in public, and like, you know, I don't I don't want to be all over each other. But like our three of this final date was like you know, like can I hold your hand? And I'm like, you know, I just need a moment right now and let's just talk. And I'm fielding you know, questions like hey, if you know money's not an object,
anywhere where would you live? You know, and She's dodging the question to immediately ask again what can I hold your hand? And why aren't we doing this? And I don't understand, and I'm like, okay, let me share my feelings again on like, you know, the stuff I've shared for the past a few weeks and what I'm feeling right now in this moment that I would like to just kind of be here with you and see what happens naturally as you okay, okay, okay, but can I
just hold your hand? And I'm like, oh my god, like is anything even getting through here?
Okay?
And if if I, you know, give an inch take a mile where, I like, okay, well, let me just you know. She really she really wants this thing, so I just open it up, like okay, yeah, you know, like well and if I like, you know, come around the table here and I give you a hug, I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm checking with myself. That's nice, thank you. And then she like dives in to like lick my ear and I'm like, whoa, okay, hang on, what what the hell?
So so listen, listen, listen, I I uh, this is your well the third date with this lady, fourth something.
Like that, yeah, third or fourth, Okay?
Are you typically like are you typically A because everyone's different on this sort of thing, are you typically A let's take it slow before we uh, you know, start licking the ears kind of kind of guy.
I generally approach it with like, I don't know. I'm usually I'm usually the follower, Like I'm kind of reading the person on how they want to play things and doing that. But for me, like if we're talking like sex and like you know, first date or like what's the pace of it, I'm I'm more like I like the passionate, like, oh my god, I just met this person. Holy crap, and you know, let's see if we're compatible.
Now we are great. Now it's been the next few weeks, Like let's paste this out and let's you know, let's see how we are in like a friendly context. Not no, that's not the right word, but.
It sounds to me like, yeah, it sounds to me like you you you like to you like to take it slow, yeah, And it sounds like this lady is ready to get.
Down, which wasn't the case until this date. Like there were there were signs and there was definitely like you know, other kinds of touch, but like it was yeah at at this moment was Yeah, it was like a new level.
M I mean that sounds like a hmmm, I'm just going off of what my gut feeling. It sounds like a like a like a pretty strong incompatibility, especially if you because if you said to her, you're like, hey, listen, uh, I kind of want to take it slow, and she's like and look, no fault to either of you, right, I mean, some people are like that. They want to
always be touching the person. There was something like, you know, they want to always be like holding a hand or touching a knee or like that's their way of like, that's their way of being like, Okay, you like me. We can be talking about whatever, but the fact that you're touching me means that you like me, and if we're not touching me, is you don't like me. That's like a language for some people that I don't think that that's your language. That seems like it's her language.
But I mean, or early on, that just seems like a strong sign of incompatibility. How does it normally go on your dates?
Normally, it's like it's at a really nice pace. You know, or it's like because I'm not I'm not I'm not against it. Like, for example, when this first came up in conversation, we were out at this event as the first time where I was like, Hey, meet some of my friends and we're gonna go out to the show.
And as we're at the show, I just kind of was like off to the side when we had a moment with just like, hey, by the way, you know, like I'm not always nuts about like constant touch, and she was oh, okay, well, gosh, I you know, I don't know how I feel about that, and like we were talking about a little bit, but then at the end of the night she was like, hey, you know, like when you said that, I wasn't certain that it was going to work, but then you showed like throughout
the rest of the night that you would like reach for like you know, hand on the knee, hand on the back kind of stuff. And I'm like, yeah, it's not it's not that I'm against it. It's just that I like the freedom to be able to initiate that and to like kind of feel it out as it happens naturally, not like you know, we're walking from this room to that room and you're like, hey, you have to hold my hand. I'm like, well, okay, let's just let it happen, you know, mm.
Hmmm, okay, So, well, how's your dating? Can I actually, well, it's funny I called you back because you you texted me. Actually a bunch of things, so.
Yeah, I think some of them. Some of them are over a year or so. Yeah. Yeah, ever like a year or two. Every now and then, I'll I listen all the time, but every now and then I'm inspired to send something over.
Well can I bring Can I bring up what you messaged me?
Uh? Yeah, let's do it.
You said, Hey, Gek, I just turned twenty nine, so you're thirty now.
Yeah.
I don't know how to meet women. I'm interested in lots of close female friends, but struggling. Meanwhile, being single is just not the fun time people keep telling me it is. Do you still is that something you still resonate with?
Not? Really. I was looking at that text when I sent you the new one and thought, man, lot a lot has changed in the past year.
Ooh, okay, I'm interested in this. Tell me what's changed.
I think the central.
That I would I d is like the the.
Internal change of like just being more okay with just where I'm at, And that's not like a surrendery okay, that's just like finding the love and like what is my life and who I am and just like, hey, let's let's just fucking love this, because that's can totally be a choice, and why why why not just pick that?
How the fuck? How the how the fuck do you do that?
Dude? Looking back? I don't know. That's it? You know, one of those things where it's like from one side of the threshold, it's like, how the fuck do I get over here? And from the other side, you're like, I don't know how the fuck I got here?
Interesting, So you don't even know, and I ask you, how the fuck you I'm I'm impressed by that because like to be to be like really candid with you, I've I'm I frequently try to get on that frequency and it's really it's difficult, and you seem as though you were very and I'm very fascinated because it seems like you were really not on that frequency a year ago, and now you are and you're telling me that you don't even know how the fuck you got there.
I mean, it's with uh, just living life and trying things, you know, going to therapy a couple times a month, uh, you know, making efforts to like get more stable, and you know, the logistical life shit, and then some like esoteric little switch when you're looking in the mirror and just going, I'm going to choose to like that.
Wow, okay, well stop me. Stop right there. You look in the mirror and you go, I'm going to choose to like that. Do you mean like you're looking at your face and you're like, I'm gonna choose to like my face?
Yeah, or like you know, body image stuff sometimes has been it's been a thing for me a lot of my life, and you know, can become attached with so much spiraling guilt and anxieties about like, oh man, like why the fuck am I not hitting the gym? And
do they really have four pizzas this week? And you know, and you know sparrows into well the jobs and relationships and all this other stuff that is so not actually related and is also completely like the whole waterfall starts from comparison, you know, it starts from like what I think I should be seeing, or like what I should be living up to or something when.
You look in the mirror, When you look in the mirror and you're like, I'm going to decide to decide to like that. What are you talking about? Like your body? Like you're like, oh, I'm going to decide to like the way I look.
Yeah, yeah, And you've found it, and you found it easy, and you found it as easy as declaring that you decide that you like that.
I mean as a practice over a lot of time.
Yeah, I'm not saying yeah, no, I know you mean, I know you mean, but.
I think it's like taking like because we're you know, we're obviously so inundated with how not just body stuff, but like how how we're supposed to be based on like advertising and media and social media and all this stuff. But if you, as an individual decide, like, well, in my life, what I'm seeing of myself, that is that is the norm? Like that that's the standard. That's the gold standard, you know, like exactly what is and what
I am like, that's that's the gold standard. Hm hm, you know, actually I think that's like I've been hearing you on some episodes recently bringing up that your thoughts on like the phrase like you are enough sure and and I'm totally like I get your I get your thought on it about it's it's proclivity to like leave leave you where like you can give up really easily, or you can be like I'm fucking depressed and what
do you mean that's enough? But yeah, I think I think of what I'm getting at is kind of the same idea, but just like phrased in a way, that's if you make who you are and everything about you like that's that's the standard, then there's you know, that's that's the you're leveling the ground to build everything on top of. You know, if you want to do more with that, great, But you know, I can be a real lazy piece of shit sometimes and like not build
anything on that. But I can still be like, hey, this is this is fine, Like I'm staying alive and I'm eating food and I'm working at a job and that's great.
I'm away by the way, and you know the whole like, uh yeah, I have been talking about that a lot, and it's a spectrum. I think. I don't think it's like an either or and then always never you know what I mean, I don't believe in either or isn't always never's uh, because uh, you know, sometimes you can you are enough yourself into giving up, but then sometimes you can you are not enough yourself into a spiral.
And so uh, you know, like I sometimes life feels like just a constant balancing act of all those things. But yeah, dude, hmmm you also said here, I.
Mean yesterday, You're you're saying yesterday where you got onto a call and then you checked in with yourself and you're like, hey, this isn't it Like that was you? That was you. You are enough in yourself and just like you know, if you weren't, if you you know, if you weren't making yourself as enough and you you know, might have pushed yourself through to something that didn't feel right.
Yeah, I mean I came to that. I logically came to a place where I was like, if I try to record an episode like this, it's just gonna be shitty. So I'm just gonna not do it, you know what I mean? Yeah, you said here, Oh okay, how about this, I'm gonna Actually, you know what, I'm enjoying reading these texts that you sent me a year and a half ago, because it seems you seem to be in a different headspace and that's that's an interesting thing to explore to me.
Yeah. I never said my text to the therapy keecho to be like a time capsule.
Right, it's interesting. Yeah you said that. Okay, you said I've been on the up from This is from February of twenty twenty four. This is a year and a half ago. I've been on the up and up from the lowest points of my life. I'm letting go of all the friends I've lost over the years. I can't stop wishing I could reconnect with my long distance Canadian
girlfriend from nine years ago. Now, let me ask you this, and we all have that, right, we all have a person where we're like, oh shit, was that should that? Should that have been more of a thing than it was? And now it's ten years ago, Are you still thinking about your long distance Canadian girlfriend?
Oh? Yeah, definitely shows up time to time. At the I think in the moment that I texted, it was like a real like it felt like something was missing and something in my brain like you know, subconsciously tried to put it was looking for a jigsaw piece and that was her, and was like this is this is the thing and now she I definitely think about her a lot and think about all of that. It's not as much of a fervor as it was at the time, but it was definitely like a really impactful relationship on
my life. And uh yeah that I think about, like what it meant and like what I valued in that and how I messed it up too.
I mean you were what were yeah, yeah yeah, what kind of impact did it have on you?
The the the level of like connection and communication that was there was not something that I experienced before in that, like in a romantic level actually maybe at all, And now like and that became like a defining thing for what I look for in a romantic relationship is like that level of community.
Oh we're still there. Hello, Hellosa, Hello, Hello, hello Hello. Oh you're back.
Oh cool. It's funny. I was I was hearing you the whole time.
What we were saying.
You were saying, yeah, yeah.
I was talking about the communication with her and how
that became like an important part. And I kind of don't want to pick communication because like I feel like that it's just like that suggests I'm talking about like the you know, like like setting boundaries and doing kind of like the the management work on a relationship, but I just mean like talking and like sharing ideas and like, you know, going for a three hour walk where we're playing out every possible factor of like a zombie apocalypse scenario,
and just like I'd just skin the talk and just like go way down the rabbit hole.
So this person impacted you in the sense that she set a standard for connection that you hope that you still to this day are like, Okay, this is the standard amount of connection that I desire from a relationship.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
And I mean in the past ten years. God, I saw I'm afraid to I'm actually afraid to hear your answer to this question. I saw this Instagram meme and it's like it was It's not an Instagram meme, it was like a quote from a movie. Was it before midnight or after midnight? Maybe you'll know what I'm talking about. It's like this lady's talking to some guy and she's like, people think that they'll meet many people that they'll connect with over their life, but the truth is it's only
a few. You know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I don't know what that's from, but I've heard I've heard stuff like that.
Do you so, I so, in the past ten years, have you found someone you've connected with as well as you connected with this lady in Canada?
Well, it's different, right, I think it would be a trap, Not not that you're setting me up for trap, but I think it would be like a disservice to myself to like try and rank it on a scale in comparison.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but like I've had yeah, yeah, Like I've had a significant relationship since then that like was definitely founded on like that kind of communication and talk.
And I often wonder when I think about this, uh, this girl from ten years ago, I often wonder if, like, man, if it was that exact same thing here and now what I actually would it be the same And maybe not, But like I think just kind of looking for there there's a there's a weird, you know, indescribable feeling that's that's attached to like knowing when that's thinking in in that and it's that level that like is what I look for in conversation and then like you know, talking
to people and seeing what it's going to be. I met fantastic people, were great, and like we spend time together. But I think that's one of the things that like gets one of the things that gets me prone to kind of like chalking up what I think a relationship is going to be too early and makes my friends go, hey, like just try this and don't don't cut it down before it starts.
Oh, because you're like, hm, I'm not getting what I feel like I used to normally be getting at this point in time, So I'm going to move on. But then you have but you have people outside of you or check you, or you're like, well give it a second.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Interesting. That's interesting. That's one of the that's that's like one of the prime things of that's the one of the prime conflicts of not only dating, but like relationships. You know, it starts out when you're dating, of like and do I feel aligned with this person? Okay? If I do kind of, I'll keep seeing them, but if not, I'll move on. And then it evolves then it's like do I enjoy my marriage? Should I get divorced or
should I stay? You know, I mean that's the prime conflict, I suppose, And I don't know if you ever, I don't know if relationships exist where that doesn't come into question, even like the best ones. I don't know if anyone ever gets into a relationship that they don't question. Maybe that I don't know, maybe there's somebody listening to this right now. That's like I've never I've been with my you know, boyfriend girlfriend eight years, I've never questioned it.
That's what we want, right is you want something you want, you want to fuck, You want a whole motherfucking life that you never have to have to question, you know what I mean. Isn't it like you're like, I'm everything is great. I've never questioned anything ever. I mean, that's an insane.
Level of that. Yeah, I'm sorry. Uh, there's a I think there's a certain level of that that's like, uh, that's it's just too subjective for us to every like is my green your green? Like you know, I'll never know even somebody listening that's like, I've never questioned this relationship, Like okay, Like are you usually an inquisitive person? Or
like what is questioning look like to you? Or you know, we might be going through the exact same process internally, but I'm just like I'm pulling out pieces of it differently, and this other person and analyzing those in a different way because I'm just prone to analyze the thing. My my therapist will often say that I has inspired me a lot. Is like the point of a first date is to see if there's going to be a second one, and that that carries all the way through a relationship.
That it's all like every day it's like, I know how I feel today, I have a guess about how I'm going to feel tomorrow, and you know, a pretty good guess about how I'm gonna feel for the next week or whatever. But I'm just going to keep renewing that all the time.
Yeah.
Interesting, which might not be as like Happily ever after as I know some people enjoy. But for me, like, I like that because I can get my hands on it better, you know, that's more that feels more human to me. That feels more like, yeah, like something we can't know.
That's a lot of work, and a lot of people don't want to do that work. And that applies to things outside of relationships. I think there's some like Alan Watts quote or whatever, that's like you're under no obligation to be who you were five minutes ago. But that's tough. That's why I think. That's why I think that's why people don't think of it like that, like that, you know, like that could apply to any aspect of your existence, right, like, all right, if I don't like my life today, then
you know, I could change it tomorrow. But it's but you get comfortable. It's a lot of work too, and it's no small and I don't even and I don't even, Bro, I don't even know. I like, I used to fucking be on like a motivational grind and be like, yeah, you should always do that work and not be complacent. But but bro, the older I get, the more agnostic I become to these things. I'm like, you know, maybe
maybe you should. Maybe it is better to just stay in the shitty in the life that you kind of like, I don't know, I'm probably wrong, I'm probably I'm probably uh no, I'm probably I'm probably wrong. It's probably you probably should do stuff, you know what I mean.
Well, it's interesting to me that, like your phrasing behind it was about like mustering up motivation to change it tomorrow. But let me try this one on. What if what if we're just naturally changing like you at rest like sitting around playing video games. Is that like there is changing happening because you're getting older and you're having more distanced perspective on events in your life. Like we're just
naturally changing. And maybe Allen Watts quote is not about like, go fucking change, Like I don't think Alan Wats is a rise and grind kind of guy. I think it's more like I attribute it to more about like regret
and like feeling embarrassed about your past self. Like, dude, if if we had talked, if we had talked last year when I said that, then they sent that text, and then you brought up the text from like a year and a half ago, I probably felt guilty about it, and I probably would have liked, Oh.
I lost you again, Dustin, He'll come back. They always come back. Hold on, we're gonna get Dustin back.
Hello.
Hey, Okay, what were you saying if you were talking about it? If I had brought up that text from February, if I called you a year ago.
Yeah, yeah. So like when you say that Alan Wats quote, it makes me think about like when you were like, hey, can we read some of these old texts? You know, there was a there's an old part of me that was like, no, don't do that. It's gonna be embarrassing, like that's not who you are anymore. But then I was like, yeah, fuck it, like let's let's do that, and I can own like, yeah, that's who I was at the time, and that's different.
Now I'm inspired talking to you because I'm I'm about to turn twenty eight, and uh, I feel like I I'd probably talk about this on the show a lot, but I feel like I'm dying. I feel like I'm like,
you know, decrepit or whatever. And it's cool, and I'm like, I think I'm you know, I don't like to admit it, but I'm a f I I don't like to admit it because when I was young, I was like, oh, you know whatever, every you're not you know, you're not dead until you're dead, right, But now I think, now i'm getting a little bit older, I'm approaching thirty, I'm like scared. I'm like, I'm like scared of getting older more than I want to admit, you know. But it's cool.
But the fact that you turn twenty nine and you're like you were like a little freaked out, and then a year later, you're feeling more zen. I'm like, oh, that's like that's like cool to me. That makes me feel like there's still time to shift and show like I'm not gonna die tomorrow, you know what I mean.
There's still time to shift and change, you know, because twenty seven you start to or you know, yeah, I'm gonna turn twenty eight, and I start to be like, you know, I'm kind of aware of my own brain, and I'm aware of my like patterns and habits and things, and I'm aware of where they've got me thus far, and they haven't gotten me to a horrible place thus far. I'm doing okay, but part of me is like, oh crap,
if he you know, is it gonna keep going? If it keeps going like this, then I don't know where that leads, do you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's and that's like I think it's like the human the evolved like pattern recognition that leads us to, like, you know, we're so prone to like see a pattern and try and analyze where it's going and to be wary of danger in the bushes, and maybe that's the thing that leads us to naturally just be like, Okay, well this happened before and this is happening now, so obviously this is happening next. And I'm just gonna be on this road forever. But it doesn't
I have like, it doesn't no, absolutely. I I the first time I ever did acid, I remember sitting sitting on a was it Twin Towers just no good Jesus Christ, twin twin peaks in uh In in San Francisco and looking over everything, and I just had this thought of, like I love video games, so I'm like, oh shit, like we're living in an open world game. It's not it's not a linear thing to it. Like I could I could run down there in my underwear if I wanted to,
Like I have every choice available to me. I'm not like destined on this path to you know, be the same person that I said I was going to be. I mean, if I have massive changes in my life, like inspired by you know, I wanted to I want to switch. I was like gung ho to be an actor for like the better part of my life. And then I hit a point where I was like, I don't think I really want to do this anymore. And it was hard to let go of that because I was like, I felt like I was dishonoring my.
Whole life but so much identity in that.
Yeah, but I had to. I had to. I just had to recognize and respect the fact that like as soon as I finally allowed myself to, Like I remember one day, I'm toying it over, I'm like not in a great place in my life, so I'm like having a hard time even considering it. And I remember one day just thinking like, Okay, well let me let me put on this idea like a hat, like let me just try it, like let me pretend for a moment
that this is my new path. And as soon as I did, I felt all of this weight come off me and I was like, oh my god, Okay, I got to do something. I gotta I gotta follow that there's something going on here. And I've come back around to it, and I've had friends that are like, hey, do you want to like act in this thing? You want to do this out? I'm like, yeah, sure, great, but uh, like I you know, sometimes think about like the inner child and like what what would that kid
want to look up to and see? Yeah, and that's beautiful, but I think there's another side, which is the inner child is a child, and sometimes you have to go, hey, that's great, buddy, but we're doing something different now.
Yeah, no, yeah, you got to look at your inner child and be like, but you're gonna learn how the world works. You know, it's not gonna it's not gonna turn out exactly how you expected it to. But uh, you know, I don't know. Sometimes this is a bad way to look at life, I think. But sometimes I look, b this is a bad way to look at life. This, this creeps into this creeps into my head sometimes where I'm like, uh, this is just me being like because
I want good things for my life. But I'm also I try to be realistic man, So I'm like I do, and it also goes against because I do believe in like manifestation in a sense of like your thoughts will become your words, and shit, man, when did the therapy Gecko podcast becomes so therapy anyway? But sometimes I do look at my life and I'm like, I'm like what why. I'm like, why why should nothing bad happen to you? You know, I'm like, why should everything work out for you?
Like I walk outside in New York or like I walk around like like when I was in Iraq or like what you know, you just like look you see like everyone's kind of just like surviving and like living their life and like whatever, You're not like that special and I'm kind of like why why why should I be amazing and everything works out for me and it is awesome. Again, I don't think that's a healthy way to live life, is to think that way, because that's
it's really not productive. But I'm just saying that that happens to me, that that thought appears in my brain where I'm like, why should everything work out for you all the time? You know, that's like a crazy expectation to have.
I think it's super valid to to have this. I mean, I think anything that pops in a brain is like, you know, nothing, like it's you know, it's life and it's nature. Like something pops in your brain. Okay, like it's not wrong, but like how we choose to hold it and what we choose to do because of it, Like that's that's up to us. Those are things that we can make given bad choices on Yeah, thinking about yeah, go ahead, well I was.
Gonna I was just gonna say I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna challenge I'm gonna challenge that. I'm gonna try to challenge that thought when it comes up and just be like, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna counterpoint myself real quick and just be like, Okay, the sure you can think like that, but it's not help it's not helpful.
It's it's nihilistic and it's not helpful. And you know, you've your my consciousness has spawned into this brain and this body for whatever cosmic reason that I it's beyond me that I'm tired of thinking about uh, And so I'm responding. So, if I only have one goal, it's for me to be responsible for my own like I'm like, I like, I have the bandwidth to care about my own happiness. And that's like kind of my job as
a human. And so you know, it's you should care about whether or not you hate your you should care about whether or not you're thriving. Like logically speaking, in the same way I come to in the same with the same logic I use to come to this conclusion that I shouldn't be happy, I can use to come to the conclusion that I should be happy. Does that make sense?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, absolute, Yeah, you're you're something, the something the switch I think I got. I go through a similar process. I just like I don't I don't do great with like good, like uh this this grand good and bad idea In nature, I think that they're like placeholder words for things that are or are not effective towards a particular goal. Like murder happens all the time in the animal kingdom, and we're not gonna say that's bad. But the reason we say it's bad amongst us is
because it's not productive. It doesn't that doesn't help things along, It's unequivocally not helpful. So I've I've come to like try and train the words should out of my vocabulary unless I'm very particular about how I'm using it, because I mean, what is what is should? You know? Like we may live in this society that's like structured around particular milestones and goals and metrics metrics of success, but like at the end of the day, I'm just an animal,
you know, and so like what what is should? Really there? I can be a good person, and I'd like to be a good person, and I will be a good person, but like should should is it should make me claustrophobic, you know, should It's.
Like, yeah, this would be an awesome testimony to give in court after you murder someone. The way you said, the way you said, I'm an animal, it reminds me. Go on, everyone listening, go on YouTube and search. Hold on, I'm gonna find this real quick. Sorry to take us completely off to I think it's Oh, it reminded me of a search up Charles Manson Epic Answer. You ever seen that video where he goes like, uh, yeah, the
way he said I'm an animal? Yes, everone on YouTube search up Charles Manson Epic Answer, Like an interviewer is like who are you? And he does a bunch of crazy faces and he goes and he goes, I'm nobody. I'm nobody. And you kind of reminded me of that just now. I don't think you would murder someone though you're you're a nice guy. But I know, I know, I know what you mean. There's no real rules of should and shouldn't you get to Yeah, you get to
kind of decide what they are. But then that's a that's a that's a big responsibility.
Yeah, but you know there again, let's you know, do it today and say promise to do it tomorrow and keep going from there. You got me thinking on I always like to to make the claim that there's the uh you know that for every everything happens for a reason, you know, and it's it can be a real like thoughts and prayers of a statement. Sometimes it's like, well, everything happens for a reason. I think it's bullshit, and I think the I think the main thing I I
believe that it's been misunderstood. I think it's the exact same but with a different connotation. I think it's not everything happens for a reason, like towards some end, I think it's everything happens for a reason, like everything happens because of something. It's it's it's all about context. It's all like you know, particles colliding with each other that create you know, the big bank. I don't know, I'm not well versed in this, but.
Yeah, you're saying that everything happens for a reason. Is a phrase that normally points forward. But you're like, no, I look at that as pointing backward.
Yeah, which isn't going to like, you know, that doesn't give you the cozy blanket of assurance that's like, well, this bad thing is gonna end up okay, yeah, as much, but like it does, I think like it for me as like a very anxious person, it gives me context, like it gives me when I'm you know, spiraling out there. It gives me something to like grab onto and be like, well I can understand this now. And that might not be like cozy it's but I get I can get it, you know.
I don't. Yeah, I don't like that phrase everything happens for I hate Yeah, I don't like that. That feels uh uh. I don't believe in some form of like external cosmic thing that's like manicuring uh events to happen for certain purposes. I think that's bullshit. Yeah, I'm kind of one of those guys that believes that everything is like a complete like cosmic accident. I'm not like, I think it's like typically like when saren, I believe here's what I like, my the whole, like everything happens for
a reason or like serendipity or cosmic this. I think that serendipity is kind of what happens natural truly as a result of you putting forth some effort into the world. I think. I think I've said this before a lot and I and I mean it, but I think when you like do stuff, like the universe kind of rewards you,
and I don't. I'm not even in like a woo waway just like an a logical way, just because like there's so much like because we live on a in a world with so many like moving fucking parts and so many different people and so much stuff going on that when you decide to like it's like it's like if the world is like a giant spinning tornado of like entery of like and like in there, it's like it's like the Wizard of Oz, Like you know, there's like chairs and Dorothy's and then the can of Witch
comes by and all that shit. Right, Like it's like it's a big hurricane of action and things and you're
like standing on the sidelines of it. If you toss a fucking ball in there, you know, it'll get swept up in the hurricane and think or if you jump into the fucking hurricane, you're gonna see some shit, you know what I mean, Like you're you just like so much kinetic energy is unfolding everywhere that if you just do something to like leave yourself and interact with it, something something comes back, you know, just lot like logically, I don't even like so when I say like the
universal wards you, I don't even mean that, and like like it makes logical sense, especially now with like the Internet, all of our like everything we do is like leveraged, you know what I mean, Like you do one you know, like like if you like I mean, like look at this podcast right Like if I went if I went out into the into the square in the seventeen hundreds and I just started talking, I'd you know, i'd talked to I'd maybe talk to like three people. But we're
gonna have this conversation. There's gonna be a few thousand people that listen to it, and it's leveraged, you know. So we live in a we live in a crazy leverage in the world. I don't know if I don't know what I'm saying relates to anything we've been talking about, but it was in my head and I'm.
It came up for some reason.
It did.
Yeah, I think the like the I I get really on the perspective and how it's like everything that we are in everything we do and everything we know is reliant on perspective. And it's like the great shame on the shame is not the right word, but the you know, it's the great struggle of our existence is that like we'll never know true objectivity for something. So that tornado from you know, God's eye, it probably is meticulously like intricate.
It's you know, you could you could take that tornado in a simulation and study every single particle and like where it's going, and it all has like this path that like from outside of time makes sense. But for us, it's just like I'm hopping in the dam tornado. I have no idea. I'm I'm I'm one thousand percent with you on the agnosticism. And that's exactly where I land
on this stuff too, is maybe there's an answer. Maybe it might be a guy in a cloud for all I know, But I don't think I'm capable of knowing.
Dustin. Yeah, this was a good conversation, Dustin. I'm gonna be honest with you. I yeah, like yesterday, when I shut the laptop off early, I was like expecting that I was like I was, I was kind of nervous. I didn't want to do this. I was nervous that this was going to happen again. But I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. So I appreciate you being easy to talk to and and fun to talk to and you know, talking to me today.
I appreciate you.
Man.
It was great to get on and inconnect and sure some ideas.
Mmm, is there anything else that you wanted to say or talk about at all before we go, or say to the people of the computer, Are.
You gonna go to New Orleans Marty Gras?
When is that?
Because it's in mid February.
Ship that could be kind of very.
Awesome to party, Marty Gray, I am.
I am Marty Gras. Colors you are.
Yeah, a little purple flare there you go.
I've never been to New Orleans before. That's like one of the few major cities in the States that I've just never been to.
It's beautiful. I've gone once, very briefly for a wedding, and now I'm gonna go spend a whole week there. I'm not I'm not always crazy about like big crowd events, but once in a lifetime thing just got to go. Go do it, you know.
Yeah, I'm want to try to flash my tits and get some beads.
I literally did that last time I was there. It was it was very effective, beautiful.
Wait you so you went to Marty gars before?
No, just it was just it's still New Orleans.
They just wait, they just do that year round, I guess.
So. Yeah, just some guys on on a balcony in the French Quarter.
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna test that.
Hell yeah, well if you go, uh text me, great party.
Thank you very much for calling Dustin. I'll see you around the universe.
Take care.
That was Dustin, nice guy. I liked Dustin. Do I have any other post call thoughts. Marty Garos could be fun? Hmm Yeah. That whole thing about like uh having like a having like I love from a long time ago. I'm curious do you guys have to tell me in the in the comments, do you guys still have like x's or loves that you think about from like a long time ago. It's interesting, I didn't really get to talking about this like twenty to thirty. That's such a
huge fucking change. But yeah, I'm curious if anyone else has like loves like that, like from like a long time. Everyone has, you know, people like who've kind of come in and out of their life and shit, but any you know, like from anyone they just really haven't talked to in a while. They're like, I wonder how they're doing. Yeah, let me know. I'm curious. Hello, Okay, Uh. I'm gonna keep doing this thing where I I'm trying to make the episodes a little longer. I know that there's been
a lot of ads in the podcast. I'm aware of that. I'm trying to make the podcasts longer so that it feels like you're it's you know, it feels like you're getting some podcasts with your ads. So I'm enjoying doing this thing where I read the viewer mail at the end of the podcast. So I'm gonna I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna read a little handful of viewer mail to bring us on home before we go. I'm also still
hyped up. I had a vibe ance and a coffee and so I feel if there if if I were ever in a mood to rant into a microphone about nothing, it would be now. So I'm gonna take advantage of this Okay. This is from uh Kalum subject line fear and loathing in Barnsley. Hi gek, I hope life is treating you well. My name is Calem. I'm twenty nine from Barnsley, South Yorkshire in England. I wanted to reach No,
I'm not gonna do that. I wanted to reach out as I've been going through some real therapy recently, as I was struggling with some self image issues and grief from both grandparents dying and a relationship ending a few years ago. However, I still find myself wondering what's the point in life. I genuinely question myself and wonder why I'm going to work at times, not from a depressive point of view, but more so what do I want
to do with my life? I feel like I've got the world at my feet and I don't know where to jump. Over the past few years, I've been well my whole life. Recently, I've been into cars and track days. Track days are where you drive your car around in circles on a racetrack all day. Whilst who I like this use of wilst Whilst it is extremely fun and was my sole motivation for a long period of my life.
I now wonder if it's been worth it. I've managed to buy a house, which I know is a real achievement in twenty twenty five, but still feel little achievement for it, and go on vacations around the hobby, visiting the nerber Gring in Germany a few times, as well as going on car related trips. Okay, I'm gonna google what Neurbering is. Oh, then it's like a big ass well, holy fucking shit, it is one hundred and fifty thousand person capacity motor sports complex. That's crazy. That's cool. It's
good to have a thing. You gotta have a thing. I mean, I'm not a fan of I don't I you know, it's good to have a thing. I don't need to I was gonna say, I'm not a fan. I don't like fast cars. They scare me. But whatever, this guy's got a thing. It's good to have a thing, especially if the thing gets you around people and you know, visiting Germany. Okay, back to the email. I have a feeling that I need to travel more and experience more of life and people. But doing this I struggle as
I'm a single guy. And it's hard convincing friends to come along when the price for trips can be high. I'm lucky enough that I get to travel around Europe for work, and I've been to pretty much every part of Germany with this, but I still find myself wanting to look further Afield so much so I'd argue it's my favorite country to visit. That's cool. I've also started riding mountain bikes, and I love the feeling it gives me when I'm out in the trail and the bonds
I share with the friends I do it with. I feel like I want to leave the car stuff behind. As the guys I know from it can be wankers, even though I like them, but they do drag me down at times. I've distanced myself from them, but feel like I've spent less and less time with people. But on the other hand, I feel like the time I'm spending with people is worthwhile and truly enriching my life. Am I just being a drama queen? Or do you
see where I'm coming from? I feel like I'm being a typical privileged person and crying about doing things I enjoy. Cheers and keep up the good work. If you ever find yourself wanting to visit Yorkshire and need a place to stay, I'm your man. Thanks, Kalum, Thank you, Kalum. This a nice invitation. Well, first of all, listen, here's the thing about you being a drama queen and whatnot.
Is like, listen, everyone's life is relative to theirs, and I've done this thing in my own life where I have the same thoughts as you, where I'm like, am I being a drama queen? Whatever? Whatever? Whatever? Listen completely denying the existence of any of your feelings, because there's people with worse feelings out there. Is it's good to acknowledge that you have it good and whatnot. But at a certain point, it's just like, you know, you're just
beating yourself up. It's not like helpful. It's like I fucking said to the caller earlier, where I was like, shit, hold on, I fucking was gonna make a connection and it just left my brain. Oh yeah, that's what I said to the caller earlier, where I was like, I'll have this thought in my head where I'll be like why should I be happy or this or that the other thing, And I don't think that's a productive thing. I have that same thought, and I don't think it's
a productive thought to have. So I'm gonna say to you that I don't think it's a productive thought to have. There's definitely people out there who do who I think do need to kind of have some and it's helpful to have some like perspective and be like, well, you know, it's helpful to have some perspective. But you're feeling a thing, and I think it's you know, good to it's okay to validate your own feelings. Anyway. I have a lot
of thoughts about this. Yeah, it can be tough if you're like a single and you want to go do shit and you know you're you're kind of navigating, like, bro, this is the this is the the lone wolf ponderer versus the social butterfly kind of a thing. You know, and clearly you've met a lot of friends doing this car stuff. But there also comes a time where you have to look around people you're with and be like, wait,
are all my friends fucking complete assholes? And it's hard because sometimes you're sometimes you look around and you're like, oh shit, all of my friends are complete assholes. But they're there. You know, if I call them, they pick up. Are you are your asshole friends? At least there? Because we all have people in our life who were like, yeah, this person kind of sucks, but you know I love them. They pick up the phone when I call them. Uh,
they're who's around. They're in my life. They're not like you know, you know, you have you have people who are kind of like on the peripheral and like they kind of have their own life and they're doing that and you see them, and if those people are assholes, then it's like, well, that's who cares. You know, I'm not I don't. I'm not gonna go out of my way to be friends with something like that. But yeah, people who are like like you know, they're like in
your life. You see them like kind of every day you talk to them, like kind of every day they're up to date on you and your existence. And maybe those people are kind of assholes, but that those people are kind of like, you know, we all have like a someone who's kind of an asshole, but like they're
in our life. You know, I don't know if anything I'm saying is helpful, but hmmm, I empathize with a lot of what you're talking about, Kalem in terms of like, you know, you want just what you want was so much out of life, but you're also you want a lot at a life and that kind of isolates you in a way, and you're like, should I continue to isolate myself and go on this like journey or should I kind of hang back and you know, spend time with uh these wankers. I get what you mean. I'm
kind of on the side of taking the journey. I think, uh, you know, you're twenty nine, You're not getna Tony Younger. I'm always on the side of taking the journey, even if you're have to do it alone. I feel like you're you're always gonna be glad you took the journey. If that's what this email is about. If this email is about should I take the journey alone or not?
I kind of usually think it's best to take the journey alone, especially because again, you're not gonna you know, you're only going to get it's only ever going to get harder in life to take these journeys. It's only
ever going to get more difficult. I mean, listen to the fucking I mean, look at your twenty nine right, you could you in two years, you could have a life where you travel around Europe alone for two years, get really depressed, try to kill yourself, and then at thirty five, you're like with your beautiful girlfriend and you have a cat and everything's okay. You know, like life, like life works weirdly like that because you only ever
know it looking back. But yeah, I don't know. I after like talking to a bunch of people and seeing like how people's lives kind of work out, you know, it seems like it can kind of take a lot of different turns, and so I don't know. I'm with you on jumping, you know. Yeah, if you're wondering what the fucking point of life is, it seems like you you gotta jump because I get like that too every
fucking time. Every fucking time, I'm like just like on my couch with my face down and in my underwear, I'm laying around in trash, and I'm like, i think I'm dying, perhaps me like like multiple times a week, I'm like, I think I'm I think this is it. I think I'm done. I think I'm dying, laying around in trash, and then I'm like, Okay, I gotta go, I gotta, I gotta go do something crazy and then
I go. And that's that's why I that's why I went to Iraq, is just to be like, I gotta, I gotta remind myself I'm alive in some way, shape or form. And by the way, you don't know, you don't not You don't have to go to Iraq or go to Germany or go whatever to do that. You know, you can do any little thing that gets you out of your existence to do that. But kalem, whatever it is that you can do to like metaphorically splash some water on yourself, it doesn't have to be a big thing.
You don't have to you know, cure cancer or whatever. But just make a little list of whatever you think you could do to kind of spiritually splash some fucking water on yourself and remind you that you're not dead. Is good. I hope that was remotely helpful. Okay, this is from Zach subject line, help me decide, yo, mister Ghek. I'm twenty three and I'm working a decent county job that's easy and routine. It's the best quality job I've had, but it's soul sucking, and I can't see myself doing
it forever. I've been thinking about going to community college for game development because I love the idea of making games and could see myself doing that happily. I spent almost a year making my first game to test if it was just a phase. It's not great, but I'm proud of finishing it. Since then, I've fallen off and struggled to say to stay consistent on my own.
Part of me.
Feels like the structure of school could finally give me the discipline i'm missing. What's holding me back is worrying that a community college game dev program might not actually be that worth it. It's an it's an industry where people kind of lean against going to college, and it's more about your portfolio and knowledge. I'm afraid to potentially waste the money I've saved up because it took me a long time to build another thing. Holding me back is a classic fear of failure. So what do you
think I should do? I wouldn't be able to do both at once. I have more thoughts, but this is too long. Why can't you do both at once? Is it? Is it just like that crazy of a job that it's like fucking like is it like an is your county job like eighty hours a week? Ps? Here here's my first shitty game if you're curious. Okay, I'm gonna play this.
This is like a.
Browser game that I can play Infernal Ascent. Infernal Ascent is a fast paced vertical platform or whether the player must rush against the heat to finish, climb through a hellish gauntlet of fire, darkness, and deadly traps as the flames rise beneath your feet, There's only one way to survive. Up. Okay, I'm gonna. I don't know how great of an audio experience it will be to listen to me play this game, but I'm gonna play it. Okay, run game. Okay, this is on the gott It game engine. I'm gonna try
to live speak myself playing this game. Okay, I'm gonna I'm hitting play. Okay, the wait, what the fuck?
Well?
Okay, w asd Okay, Okay, I died. I'm engulfed in flames. Okay, I'm trying again. I don't know if this is gonna make for a good podcast, but I'm playing playing this game. I'm collecting coins I'm jumping. Fuck all right, I died in Flames again. Okay. I'm dressed as a little character that he kind of looks like a cyclops. I'm collecting a coin. I don't know if people can hear the oh fuck I died again? Okay, all right, honestly already,
I don't know. I just I like platformers. I'm a big fan of like Mario Maker and Super meat Boy and shit like that, so I'm already addicted to this. I guess to answer your question while I'm playing your game. Wait, fucking okay, all right, I don't know a lot about the game. Shit, fuck, I don't know a lot about the game development. Okay, you can like climb walls? Is that what this is?
Okay?
I fucked up? Can you climb that?
All right?
Anyway, I'll play more of this when I'm not recording a podcast.
But I'm.
Well, so here's the thing is, I'm I guess the community college. Yeah, I well, I lean against going to college for a shit like this, only because, like I mean, you made a game, right, and we live in a world where if you want to make money making your own video games, you can do it. But like I don't. This is not an industry I know a lot about. But it's like you you know, there's fucking Steam. There's
never been a either Steam. There's never been like an easier universe to just like make a game and have people play it and like you know, make your games and market them, and like, I don't know how people make money doing that, and I don't know if it's like I don't, I don't even know what the deal is. But this is like you're starting a business, right And so if I were you and I wanted to, if I were, if here's the thing, If I were you, I would take the risk. I don't know how I
feel about game development college. It's it's similar to how I feel about like film school, which is like, I mean you can spend like like there's programs out there that's like yeah, you can totally spend like hundreds of thousands of fucking dollars to go to film school. And it's like, bro with the money, Like, let's say, I don't know how much this community college program is. If it's like I don't, I don't, I don't know how much community college programs are, but let's I'm gonna throw
a number out there. Let's say it's like fifty grand or some shit, right, if you're about to spend fifty if you I think the idea of you spending the money, of you investing the money that you've saved up into your game development career is a good idea. But I don't think that game development school is the best way to do that because, like you know, again I don't know anything about the game industry, but like you know, it costs money to make a game. I'm sure it
costs money to market a game. Like I would just like, you know, make it. I mean, think about all those filmmakers who are like I didn't go to film school. I spent the money I would have spent going to film school to actually make a movie. And so if I were you, if I was going to do this, I would spend that I would allocate that money on
making the game. Don't waste all don't spend all of your money on it, Like like you don't wanna like set aside some money like what like an emergency fund and like make it so that you're not like fucking kicking yourself for this. But like you know, it's okay to spend a little bit of money to be like, I'm gonna I have this game idea that I want to really throw myself into marketing and making and doing.
So.
I don't think it's a bad idea, but spend as little money on it as you can, right, I mean, how much you have the software already to make the game. I don't know how much money it costs to like market something like this or to you know, run ads or you know, like I don't I don't know. I don't know what's evolved in it. But but you should go for it in some sense because because you know, you're so young, like you can always get another fucking job.
You know it's worth it to try. I think it's worth it to try, and you don't have to go broke trying. And I wouldn't go try to go broke trying. But I don't know if I'm just diarrheating, but I think it's worth it to try. Because you're twenty three, you can just always get another fucking job. I'm I'm not a big fan of going to community college for
game development. I think if you're gonna spend that, I think you don't need to spend that kind of money, and I think if you're gonna spend that kind of money, I think there's better ways to allocate the funds. I like your game, The Infernal Ascent. Is this your website? Tso uh, I want to get I want if if okay, if people, I want to share your game on the show, if anyone wants to listen, if anyone wants to play it.
But it's a little hard to okay, Okay, so you're if you want to play this guy's game, you go to tie CEO. That's t I E S I O dot Itch Dot I O Slash Infernal Dash Ascent. If you want to play this guy's game. I like, I like, I like your game. Should make more games, keep going, keep going, Zach, all right, I think I think we did it. Unless if I have one more Okay, I have one more email. Okay. This is from Shark subject
line inquiry about episode themes. I was wondering if every once in a while you could do an episode without sex or love themes. There are a few, but sometimes it can be a lot and bring back bad memories. The train hopping and Distant Dad stories were instant favorites for me because they were more about growth than decay. Thank you for your time and consideration. I appreciate everything you do. Get bless Mark. I don't. I just kind of well, actually, I guess this whole episode was a
lot about love. Yeah, this whole episode was about love pretty much. So you're gonna be very disappointed when it comes out. But I just feel the call. I just feel the calls that come in. Brother listen, don't ask don't don't don't ask me, brother asked the universe. The universe is making the people want to talk about the things that they're talking about. I got no control over that. But I think I don't think. But the way you said, the way that you're implying that a lot of the
episodes are about decay rather than growth, I disagree. I mean, I think this entire episode was about growth. Our boy from the beginning, Dustin and ah fuck, why am I forgetting Dustin and Charles? Dustin and Charles, I think both of them are like I like love. Those are both stories of growth to me, And uh, you know, I feel like a lot I feel like most of the time when people call into this show, it's like a story of growth. It's one of the reasons I like.
I like doing it because it's helpful to me, you know, see other people, especially people who are like a little older than me, because I get scared about like, uh, you know, decaying. But it seems like a lot of people that get older, they don't grow. They don't decay, they grow. It's just nice. So I don't know. I hope you see that mark. All right, that's the end of the podcast. I'm gonna go thank you guys for listening.
I think I'm gonna I might do an I R. I don't know, but I'm gonna do an I haven't done an IRL episode in a bit. Like people don't like to listen to them as much. It seems only by numbers. But I like doing them. They're fun. It's fun to go out as a get go and talk to people in real life. So I'm gonna do it again. I hope you listen to it. I hope you like it. I'm still working on my Iraq video. I haven't started it yet. I'm trying to do one. I trying to
do one documentary a month. I was interact for a bit and then I got sick, So I don't know if I'm gonna get this fucking thing done on the timeline that I want to get it done, but i'm gonna get it done, and it's gonna be sick anyway. Okay, all right, I'm gonna stop talking. Thanks for listening, Get bless see you next time ever beacon goes on the line taking your phone calls. Every night every Beacon goes to and to ride. I'm just teaching you aloud in
the mid of your life. But he's not really an expert.