Hey, folks, My Therapy Gecko Live Show Tour is starting very soon with shows in San Diego, Los Angeles, all over the Pacific Northwest and all over the country, the Country of America and like three cities in Canada. You can look at all of the cities that are available and get tickets right now at therapy geckotour dot com or check the link in the episode description. These shows will be a combination of group gecko therapy sessions with
the audience. Plus I've got stories of my own that I will be telling from my travels across the universe interviewing people as a gecko. The shows are always a great time. If you like the podcast, you're gonna love the live show. And if you bring friends who have no idea who I am, the show is set up so that they will probably like it too. Go to therapy geckotour dot com or check the link in the episode description to get tickets right now. I hope to
see you guys. And with that said, let's get into the episode.
Hello.
Hello, is this a therapy Gecko? This is the therapy Gecko? Who is this?
Hi?
When he is Lily?
Lily, what's going on? Lily, what's happening.
I'm kind of in a predicament to say the least.
You're in a predicament to say the least, do you. I assume that you called me so that we could talk about this predicament. Yes, predict me. Hit me with the predict, Hit me with the predict immense. Okay, So.
I've been married to my current partner for about I would say about three years. Well, we've been on and off for three years. We were dating and then we just got married about a year ago. My ex kind of came back into my life, but it's been there throughout the three years. And he is also married during this entire time.
Okay, and.
Me and him have been off and on, like pretty often on let's just say that, and we both decided to kind of move on with our life and we got married to separate partners. Now, I didn't think I would hear from him again, and it kind of started to pick up, and I was like, oh, we're just picking up where we left off, I guess, And he's like, yeah, I'm not really happy in my marriage. Are you happy
in your marriage? And I'm like yes, and no, I mean my partner cheated on me too, so it's kind of like not like revenge, but I kind of feel like it is.
Okay, I have multiple questions, but it says you're It says you're in Japan seeing an a fair partner and he's been ignoring me. So now I am bumming it out in an airbnb.
Okay, I was in Japan a while back ago, like that was almost like three months ago. Yes, that's the same person.
Okay. Are they Japanese?
Yes?
Okay, So let me get this situation correct. So you've been married for three years. Yes, your husband cheated on you, Yes, you forgave him m hm. And now your ex boyfriend is coming back and you're having an affair with your ex boyfriend on your husband. The ex boyfriend is also having an affair on his wife. Yes, okay, where are you right now?
I'm in Illinois?
Okay, where's your husband? He is currently deployed. Okay. Do you guys have kids together? No?
We don't.
Why Uh, if you you're not happy in your marriage and you don't have kids together and there's another person you want to be with, why are you still in this marriage?
Because I feel like I have to be like an obligation because my family is so strict. What I don't know how i'llso explain it, Like they just they feel like if you marry one person, you should be stuck with that person.
How old are you.
Seven?
Did your family arrange this marriage?
No? But they love him to death? Okay, And I feel like I'm going to be like a disappointment and like let my family down if they find this out.
What's your name, Lily? All right, I'll break here's the few, Okay. So, like, if you're unhappy in your marriage, you really kind of have two options, and especially you don't have kids. It's like,
especially if you don't have kids. Man, I mean like if you're unhappy in your marriage, like it's either like you gotta try to work it out, but you don't sound like you even like it like that, Like but this is you only really you only really want to work it out if you like like this guy, but you don't even like you didn't even like this guy.
It was it was there before, but I feel like some of the things that he did, like cheat on me and do other stuff behind my back, it kind of deteriorated over time. And then I asked about like therapy and maybe we should consult somebody, and she's a type to never want to do that, so it kind of just bothered me from that point on, and instead of like talking to somebody, I ended up talking to my ex about it, and that's where I think things were kind of went.
Solf, why are you? Why are you in this marriage with a part? There's no there's no reason for you to be in this marriage. You don't like this guy, you don't have kids that you're staying together for, Like what are you? Literally are are you being serious that you're literally only doing this because you don't want to disappoint your parents.
Pretty much like they paid for everything they paid for, like the bey paid for, like the move because we move states. They like, I just don't want to let my family down, and I feel like I'd be a disappointment because the rest of my family is a reach together.
Listen. Listen, listen, I listen on this podcast. Listen. I hate uh listen. I really try as hard as possible to not make this like a direct advice podcast, and just like I'm like chatting with people, but this is just this is an open and shut case right now. It's just this is like an open and shut case.
There is no reason whatsoever at all for you to be in this marriage, like like you're not you're not even doing a thing of like, oh, the feelings are complicated and sometimes it's like this, and sometimes it's like that, and I just can't get try, like we're not even getting that, Like you don't like this person at all, You have no desire to make it work or be with them? What what are you doing?
Just what?
Like why are you in this marriage? This is? This is this is this is crazy. Who gives your who gives a fuck what your parents think?
This is?
That's that's I listen, I'm I'm ill, i'll I'm on a level with you. You must have been raised in like uh uh for you to be feeling this way. You there must have been something going on with your parents where like they conditioned you to feel this way or something like that, because this is this is wild, Like do you like you don't like this guy at all? There's no there's no reason for you to be in
this marriage. Yeah, it's it's hard. What okay, tell all right, okay, listen, let's what all right, let's get into the parents thing, because listen from my perspe active it's it's ridiculous, but clearly, clearly it has an emotional hold on you. So we can get into it if you want to, Like why, what's going on with your parents?
I kind of just grew up where it's like really strict, really like Catholic family, to say the least. My mom was kind of abusive a little bit towards me, and I would always have to do stuff like to please a guy if that made sense, okay, Like anything I had to do, it had to be like, oh, you have to actually put makeup on, you have to actually try when you go out. You can't look like basically crap. And it was always like for male gates, like never
for my own, you know. And if it wasn't, like if I would never get dressed up, she would always kind of put me down. So I feel like with going into the marriage, like I feel like I was doing everything to be perfect for somebody that I really I thought I cared for, and then it kind of fell apart.
Okay, that's fine, by the way, you know, Like that's fine, like if you go into a thing with someone and you thought that you can I mean, especially if you don't have kids, right, and especially if you're not like in like some I get that some people are in like kind of these crazy scenarios with like uh, like you know whatever, like the kids are involved, or like significant like financial discrepancies are involved, or like there's like
whatever logistical difficulties involved in like leaving a relationship, Like I like, I get that those things can be difficult, but in this situation, like or is anything like that in this situation that is preventing you from leaving this marriage?
I would say financials too. Financials and then moving. I picked up a lot when I decided to marry this person, and I picked up my entire life to be with them. And then when they hurt me that way, it definitely shifted my mindset because I left my job and I was making somewhat decent money. I was working for the government at this time, and I was making pretty good and he wasn't doing too much because he was injured.
So I felt like I was providing all the money everything into it, and I feel bad like if I was just going to pull the rug out too and all the money that I saved up, you know, and be like hey, like you're on your own, Like I can't do that to somebody to you know.
What on your what you wait, your husband? You said, your husband's on his own.
Yeah, he was injured, okay, related accident.
But he's deployed. Now he's your husband's employed, yes, currently, Okay, so your husband's currently deploy your your husband has a career with the military. No, no, yeah, okay, so it's not even like again, I'm like trying to find and I'm like literally trying to find anything like I like that of like it's not like your like even it's not even a thing of like like a financial provider, and like what are they gonna do without me? Like your husband's employed.
So you think that to leave?
Well yeah, I'm no, I'm like he's the thing I like U for for for whatever, Like I like, I understand like the various emotions and difficulties in life that cause people to do things or stay in relationships they shouldn't be in or whatever. Like I understand that, And I'm really like trying to like search in your situation for anything remotely that is that. But if the only thing that you're bringing up is that you don't want
to disappoint your parents. It's feeling it's feeling open and shut. Okay, do you know that, right?
Do you? Like?
I don't. What is the benefit of that?
Yeah?
Yeah? What is the benefit to you of staying in this?
Like?
Like, I can't I can't even make a pros and consolest with you, Like I can't name a single pro.
I guess to go back home. I feel like that's the pro.
You get to go back home if you don't divorce your Like, what's the pro of not what is the advantage of What is the advantage of being in this?
Like?
What is the blockade of leaving this marriage with this person that you don't like?
I just think it's it's something that I built for a little bit, but it was built on I guess, mistrust and two different things. So I guess nothing. You're right. I mean, there's really nothing holding me back, and I feel like my family has to be they have to come to terms to it, Like eventually, is that I.
Genuinely want to know? Is that the main issue that you have?
I think? So that's all I can really list. I did care about him, but we both done things, like I said, to hurt each other. And I feel like it's just not there. I just didn't want to disappoint my family, but it's like they.
Have to get over it. You know, does he even I mean I'm looking for anything, like does he is it even a thing of like he really likes you and wants to make it work.
Yeah, I mean he was before he left. Yeah, I could say that he put an effort, but I feel like it was like guilt, you know what I'm saying, Like when somebody goes out of their way to do stuff when they did you dirty, like they hurt you. That's what I kind of got out of that. Like after I found out, it went all downhill and he would try to do anything to stay with me, but I felt like everything he was doing was just like a facade, like it wasn't real at all to me.
M Yeah, listen, what's your name again, Lily? Lily? Well, literally listen. You should talk to a real therapist about all this stuff going on with your family. But if you did want Gecko therapy perspective, I mean your family like like dude, like I mean, I mean, you're twenty seven, but I mean, like I know, like what the whole thing of like I'll disappoint your your family. It's like, dude, fuck them, what the fuck? Like that's like I don't like,
that's ridiculous. You know, it's totally ridiculous to like stay in a marriage that you don't want to be, Like, what the fuck does your family have to do with like you staying in an unhappy marriage? For Lily, there's really no reason, like like let them suck it up. Okay, do you know?
Do you do?
You do?
You do?
You do? You see why? That's I don't want to discount it because clearly this is like again it's from my perspective it's ridiculous, but clearly from your perspective, it's a big thing, and I want to I want to understand why.
Like I said, I just think the way I grew up is just a lot of disappointment if I do certain things that aren't in the like the right eyes of my family.
I e.
Like, they paid for a wedding and then I turn around and get divorced three years later. It's like why do they even pay for it?
You know, like yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, but you know what, you know what, fuck them because you know what, you don't pay for your fucking daughter wedding. You pay for your daughters, like like, okay, you have to fuck them. And here's why, because listen, it was listen, it was nice of your parents to pay for your wedding. This is my but this is really what I believe. This is what what I what I want you to believe to Listen, it was nice of your parents to pay
for your wedding. And if your parents are going to do some ship like that, if they're gonna pay for your wedding, they should be doing it because they love you and they want to help you out and they want to pay for the wedding. They're not doing it because it's not You're not in a business deal with them. You didn't they're they're not making you sign a contract. We're paying for your wedding so you can never get
divorced even if you're unhappy. Like that's completely insane, right, like you know what I yeah, yes, yeah, no, yes, how I'm know how I'm describing it. If that's how they act, that's their fucking problem. That is not your problem, Lily, that is not your problem. That's a fucking insane mentality
to have. I'm deeply sorry for you, Lily. I'm very sorry that you have parents that have that kind of like insane mentality, But I want you to recognize if nobody else in your life is telling you this, that that's an insane mentality. It makes no fucking sense. It's like it's stupid. I'm sorry. Your parents are supposed to be people who like have have some form of like something that you can you can trust in and and
look into. And I'm sorry that like they have that mentality, but like, I just need you to realize, if nobody else has told you this, that that is an insane mentality. Your parents should only pay for your wedding if they want to because they want to help you, not because it's a contract that you can never get the voice if you're unhappy, that's fucking insane. And if your parents say some shit like that to you, to fuck them, Okay,
Like that's just that's completely insane. I don't know if anyone else in your life has been telling you this, but like that's that's just insane. And I get it you have a relation, Like I'm not I'm not your parents' daughter. I'm not dealing with the giant emotional brunt of it that you have to, but like just from an outside of perspective, like you, I just need you to know that that is an insane mentality for your parents to have.
That you don't have to be responsible for their insane mentality, and you should feel free as a twenty seven year old adult woman to leave a marriage that's making you unhappy, not to stay in it because of what your parents will think, Like like, that's just completely insane.
You have no clue, Like how much that just made me feel like ten times lighter. I'm not even kidding you. Every time I talk to somebody, they think anybody in my family thinks, oh well, I'm so ungrateful I'm this I'm not, And I'm like, it's not even that, it's just when your family acts like a debt collector instead of actually being there for your daughter.
No, that's insaney.
Like I tried to talk to my mom too about it, and she's like, you have everything set up for you. Why are you acting so ungrateful? Like you're such a brat, Like you had a happy life, Like why are you gonna throw it away? And I'm like, okay, but if I'm not happy, what am I going to do, like.
You know, there's a different like there's a difference, right, like in terms of like, but it's just for specific things like this, like your parents paying for your wedding, Like it's okay for you to get a fucking divorce, like it's your life like it like your parents like childhood. This childhood is not a thing, and you're like the gifts that your parents give you, you're supposed to just do that shit because you want to, not because it's a
fucking debt that you have to repay. Like that's insane. Like you bring a child into the fucking world and you want to help them do these things, but you don't do it as a way to like repay like your your parents can't act like fucking like debt collectors to you. That's fucking insane.
And every time something goes wrong in their life it always has to be because my job, Hey, can we borrow X.
Y and Z?
And I'm like, I should be able to tell you no without you getting mad at me or throwing back in my face.
Yes, of course, yes, there could be no reception with how I'm feeling. Yes, yes, yes, please leave this marriage if you're not happy and and if you're not happy in this marriage and the only reason, Again, there's a lot of complicated reasons why people stay in relationships and whatnot if the only one is that you're afraid of disappointing your parents, Please like reconcile that it's completely insane.
Okay, I definitely will. I'm like, I'm sorry I called in about something else, but I feel like this one, like this convo went a little bit further, and I feel like I needed to hear that my family was driving me up the wall.
No, and then you can just be with who I mean, Yeah, I mean, and then you can just be with whoever you want. Doesn't have to be like a because you're just you're you're you're tangled up in the eight thousand different chords that I is just I don't even know how you like that. That's just I don't know how you exist like that, Like that's this is crazy. You don't you don't have to tangle yourself on that shit.
It'd be nice to just kind of do what I want without having other people kind of tell me what to do. So thank you for saying that.
Yeah, for sure, Is there is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go.
You know what, I just want to let people know that you're never stuck then what you're doing. And I know people probably think I'm a bad person right now from what they heard, but trust if you can get out, get out and go see the world.
Please, all right, take care man, YouTube go bay No. Hello, Hey, what's up, homie?
Oh my god? You actually called Hi?
Hi? Hello? Hello? What's your name?
I'm Jeff. I'm Jeff. I'm calling from Hong Kong.
You're calling from Hong Kong. Are you Hong Kong Eese or are you American?
I am Hong Kong Ease. But it's quite of interesting. We have a lot of international schools in Hong Kong because of our colonial days from the Brits. So I grew up in international schools and that's how I got my accent.
Ah.
Interesting. Yeah, I'm in Japan right now. I've met a few like folks who like grew up in like an international school and it's basically my understanding is it's basically like going to like an American high.
School pretty much. Yeah, we grew up with American movies, you know, American TV shows, American music. Yeah, it's it's quite It's sort of that identity crisis you have where I'm not local enough to be Hong Kong ease, you know, considered by the local Hong Kong. But then I'm also not you know, I'm like ethnically shiny. So when I'm abroad, people are like, you're Chinese, you know, like, for example, I can't write in my own language.
Wait, can I ask you a dumb question? Yeah, Hong Kong is China, right.
Ooh, this can get very political officially according to the Chinese government, Yes, Hong Kong is part of China, but we are what we call a Special Administrative Region, which means we have a different sort of legal and government system, so we basically run ourselves in a way.
Okay, see Hong Kong is different from mainland China.
I would say, yes, politically, culturally very different. Hmm.
Interesting do you But when you're in America that I what's the word that minutia is irrelevant to people. They're just like you're Chinese.
Yeah, well I've actually never been to the States. Interesting, But I studied in London, so I lived in London for seven years and that's where people sort of go, oh, you're just Chinese, you know, they sort of just You're just Chinese.
How did you like living in London? London is a good town.
I actually thought it was really cool. I loved London. I think it fit my culture better because, like I said, you know, I grew up in a very westernized environment even though I was in Hong Kong. And I feel like I get along with people in the UK better than I do back home here.
Ah why is that?
I don't know. I think it's a cultural thing. Like I mean, for a start, I expressed myself much better in English. I would consider English my first language, and so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm actually you know, part of the reason why I texted you is because I used to be a journalist and I write exclusively in English. So I'm a writer in English by trade. And I can't write a single Chinese character to save my life, Like I just can't do it.
So uh, okay, okay, I'm gonna ask another crazy question. What language do they primarily speak in Hong Kong?
So Hong Kong people speak, I would say a dialect of Chinese called Cantonese. M H. So you know, if you've watched like Bruce Lee movies growing up, or like Jackie Chan movies. Those are like in Cantonese, that's what we speak in Hong Kong m and then you go to mainland China and they speak Mandarin, which for the whole nation of China is the official language. It's slightly different. I would I would say it's sort of like Italian and Spanish. You know, they're like similar but identical.
Right right, right, right right?
Yeah? So, but canton go ahead, But if you speak so for example, if I speak Cantonese and I cross the border we have a border, uh into mainland China, most of the time, we can sort of understand each other even if we're just speaking our own you know, dialect.
Mmm, so you can speak Cantonese, can you write Cantonese?
No? I I I tried for a while, and I just gave up because it's just I never grew up learning Anthony's formally, you know. I just learned how to speak Cantonese via my parents.
Wait, you learned it via your parents, But I thought you grew up in Hong Kong, So wouldn't you just learn it by just existing there?
So I learned how Okay, I don't know how to explain this. I learned how to speak via my parents and sort of like you know, obviously the people around me. So speaking is not a problem. I can read it enough, so I can sort of read a newspaper or I can go to a restaurant and read a menu. But I can't, like, it's not at a high level, you know what I mean?
Yeah, but like, but that's that's crazy to me, Like that you like, you are Hong Kongese, you grew up there, your parents are both their parents both Hong Kong E's.
Yes, yes, they're both locals.
And okay, so they're both local. Your parents are both locals, and you grew up there, but you can't fully read and write the language.
Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a common problem a lot of us international school kids have because we study exclusively Lang English in school. They don't really have Chinese lessons, and even if they do, it's they import like a like a UK system for Chinese, so it's tailored to beginners. So I'm sort of at a primary school level. I think this is actually quite interesting as a as a
generational thing. Back when I was in school. So I'm thirty three years old, and back with when I was in primary school or international school growing up, they would actually tell you that you're not allowed to speak Cantonese in school, really, and I understand it. It's because there's a lot of expat students in school, right and they didn't want us to exclude the x BAT kids by speaking Cantonese with each other. But then it's sort of
awkward as well, because you know, I'm Chinese. I have friends in school who are Chinese were located in Hong Kong, but we grew up in an environment where they just discouraged the use of Chinese in school. So I never learned it, you know, as a as a study, you know what I mean. I just sort of picked it up here and there from television, from restaurant menus.
But then as you move about the world, like when you go to the fucking bank or whatever and you have to read the sign that says, hey, we're the bank, do you is that?
Like?
So can you do that?
Shit?
Yes? I can. I can read. I can read. But it's also funny because Hong Kong, as you know, maybe used to belong to the British, right, And because of that, a lot of systems here still run bilingually on English and Chinese. So we have the option of growing up just entirely filling out every bank form or whatever only in English and never having to write a word of Chinese.
Really, so you can just like do the whole country in just.
English pretty much. Yeah, and it's quite I also find it quite weird that actually, you know, in Hong Kong, if you take like a cab, the older generation of cab drivers or like the older generation of just people will be pretty good at English because they existed in Hong Kong when it was still a colony, right, so English was very commonly used, whereas the younger generation now, because we were handed back to China, they study English less.
So funny enough, the younger generation don't speak as much English as the older generation. You know, if you go to I'm sure if you go to Japan or something, you know, the younger people are more sort of you know, open and more international, right, But Hong Kong right now at least kind of has this reverse syndrome.
Interesting, I mean, yeah, that's so that's fascinating. Yeah, because in pretty much all foreign countries I've been to, it's the opposite where it's like, yeah, the older generation doesn't really speak English and the younger generation, I mean in Japan, like there's English proficiency in Japan in general is not like it's not huge, but like definitely, like even among the younger people it's not huge, but like, yeah, you definitely like most most old older cab drivers here do
not speak English. It's fascinating that the older generation in Hong Kong speaks more English than the younger generation. So that okay, So you're as a thirty three year old who experiences the universe in English more than in Cantonese. You don't feel isolated. You don't feel like, oh, I'm like, I don't really do it?
Do you?
Do?
You do you have that feeling where you're like, oh do I where the hell do I fit in in this crazy world?
Yeah? No, honestly, it was it was an identity crisis. I think it first hit me when I went to university in Hong Kong because in university, everyone's in university. You know, there's no sort of English international kids university, so you start getting mixed into the well, you know, locals, right, and when you try to hang out with the locals
because my Chinese wasn't great. I didn't understand their TV references because I don't watch Chinese TV, or I don't watch Chinese movies, or you know, they'll go sing karaoke and I wouldn't know any of the Chinese songs. There was a moment, yeah, in my early twenties where I was like, man, I don't really belong here, or like, they don't really want to hang out with me. And then I ended up having to hang out with the expat like exchange students. Funny enough, like they accepted me
more and I became one of them. And to the degree that actually during university my girlfriend was Italian, so we dated for like a good five years. And yeah, so you know, throughout my life it's always been that.
And then I think the other culture sort of clash was when I started working and you know, like I said, I used to be a journalist, but I can only write English, right, And you can imagine in Hong Kong, where everything is predominantly Cantonese, there's not a lot of English papers or magazines, and so I had this moment of like, man, what am I gonna do. You know, there's like two official magazines in English in Hong Kong, and if I don't get either of them, I'm screwed.
Because I kind of write in Cantonese.
This kind of brings me to I'm gonna. I'll go ahead and read your text that you sent me. Oh yeah, you said hello, I'm Jeff, and I'm going through a reality check. I used to be a lifestyle journalist and was treated like royalty, and now I'm working for a charity in the same industry, and I've become the one begging others to work with us. It's been quite a slap in the face to see people who you thought were friends turn so quickly on you once you're no
longer valuable to them. So, uh, okay, we'll talk about this. What you were treated like royalty?
Yeah, so you know, like it was like games journalists because I listened to your podcast. I know, like you play video games sometimes, you know those like game journalists and they always get like free free video games to like test out, or like people will send them like PCs or like super pro consoles for free. It was sort of like that where I was a lifestyle journalist and I would get invited to like hotel stays, resorts stays,
all for free. You know, everything's covered. I'd go to restaurants like three michellin Star restaurants, you know, which were like a meal there in Hong Kong would set you back maybe like five six hundred US dollars, okay, and they would treat you to that for free, you know, just because you're a journalist and they want you to write about it and promote it, right, They want you to talk about it, they want you to review it.
You know, they'd fly you out business class to wherever you want, things like that, and you know, it was just they would pamper you with everything because you were writing for a reputable magazine or a reputable newspaper and they wanted the coverage, right. So that was sort of the life that I was living for the past maybe like six years.
Mm hmmm.
And then yeah, and then it just got a bit tiring because I was out all the time. You know, I would work in the office Monday to Friday, like a regular office job, but then every night I'd have to go dinners and and events. And at first it was very glamorous. At first, it was like, man, this is awesome.
You know, I'm getting it sounds sick, go wrong?
Yeah, yeah, this is this is so I've talked to friends about it, which is why I wanted to talk to you about it, because everyone's like, dude, that's awesome, you know, like you get all this free ship. You know. I I used to get gaming PCs too, because I used to write for a website called hype Beast. I was an editor at hype Beast, and so they would send me like all this free gaming ship and all this free stuff. I'd interview like Hollywood stars for like
Disney and like Marvel movies. It was crazy, and so everyone's like, why are you complaining? But eventually it got a bit too much where I felt like my work just overwhelmed my life, Like I wasn't living my life anymore. It was, you know, constantly it was work, work, work, work, work, And I looked around the people around me and I could see the same with them. You know, they would be working Monday and Friday like me. They would go all to these events on weekends and evenings, and it
was all just jumbled into one day pile. And then all they post on Instagram is about you know, which event they went to, which bar they went to, which restaurant they went to, and it all became too much for me. I felt like I was losing my own life. I wasn't tending to the stuff that I needed to do at home or my relationship.
So what so, okay, what about your life needed tending that was going untended. As a result of of all of this.
I think the biggest thing was my mental health. I think might be sill mental so not to get like too grim, but I grew up in sort of like an abusive household, and I for the past twelve years or like thirteen years, I've been on antidepressants and I have like sort of chronic I guess depression and anxiety, and like when I was twenty, I was also diagnosed with borderline. I don't know if you know what borderline is. Yeah, so it's something that I've been dealing with for like
the past decade. And I feel like during that phase of my life where I was like just setting and eating and just partying a lot, I stopped doing all the things that used to like bring me peace or like ten to my mental health, you know, just small things like even waking up and like meditating for five minutes, I was skipping stuff like that, or like you know, feeding my cats. You know, I would forget. I would forget to get like cat food for my cats, or
I would be really really anxious all the time. And I felt like it also started affecting people around me, Like I live with my girlfriend, and it started affecting her too, because I was just anxious all the time about missing that next event, or like where I have to go, or you know who I have to talk to, things like that. So my mental health took a dip.
Okay, So tell me about this this part of your message where you're like, I'm my friends turned on me once I was no longer valuable to them. Who are who were these friends?
Right? So to be honest, this is this is part of the question, right, is were they ever friends? You know, I worked in the industry for a while, and when you go off with events and you go off with dinners, always with the same other journalists right from other circles, other publications or there's pr people who work for the restaurants or the hotels or whatever, and you know you're seeing them a lot, right because you're going to a lot of these events and you have this connection with them.
And I I would consider myself like quite an open, trusting person, like what you see is kind of what you get. And I guess in a way, it's a bit naive to think that other people are always like that. So when I'm with these people, I'm quite genuine and I just be myself and and I feel like, yeah, you know, we get along. We're good friends. You know, they they laugh, we laugh, we talk about things. You know, We're not like close friends, but I would consider them friends. You know.
So how did they sting you differently once you stopped having this gig?
You know, I think I just so. I when life was overwhelming, I decided to leave and then I joined
the charity that I knew for a long time. And this charity is adjacent to what I used to do because they also work with a lot of hotels and restaurants and they basically help We call them underprivileged and disadvantaged youths, but you know, they might be kids like orphaned youths or you know, kids with Down syndrome, things like that, and we try to find them employment opportunities at these restaurants and hotels, you know, simple tasks, things
that they feel fulfilled doing but not overwhelmed. And so we need to work with a lot of restaurants and a lot of hotels, right, And that's when I started reaching back out to these people and saying, hey, you know, it's been a while, I'm working with this charity now, and like half of them just ghost me to begin with,
like nobody ever replies, They just completely ghost you. And then some other people start making like you know, terrible excuses up like oh we're just too busy, Oh we can't do this, we can't do that, and you sort of follow up on email with them for like a couple of months, and then they just eventually disappear as well. And it's just a big contrast, you know, from my phone blasted every day from offers of people going hey you want to come here, Hey you want to do this,
Hey you want to do this with us. So like now I'm sort of chasing everyone and going, hey, please, you know, please give us a chance, you know, give these kids a chance, and just nobody replying, just everyone ghosting me.
Mm hmmm hmmm. What about like, okay, so you're talking about like your relationships in your personal life, correct, like how are those going?
Honestly, starting this job sort of helped with my personal relationships, like what I really consider my friends or or my partner, you know, my girlfriend, Like I've had more time with family, I'd have more time with friends because I don't have to go to events anymore. I get to see my friends more often. So those relationships have strengthened, I feel, which is a great thing. But then there's always that nudging feeling at the back of like, am I too
trusting of people? Am I too naive? Did I think we were friends and they never considered me a friend before? Yeah?
Yeah?
But who do care? Who cares about that shit? You know?
No?
I mean it, I I like, I don't like, I don't care. I don't care about that stuff like that when people are like, oh, like, uh, am I too trusting? Am I too?
Like?
Just decide how you I kind of do believe in a sense, and I probably get faultimate. I mean, I this it's kind of my whole thing that I take everyone at face value, and I take a lot of the world a face value, and this whole thing of like, oh am I being too trusting. It's that's not the way to think about it, right, It's like decide how you want to be and then just be it, right, So, like, you know, do you want do you want to be a trusting person? Do you want to take people at
face value? Okay? Then just do it right, and then you do it and then you accept whatever the perceived the consequences are of that, which really I mean also also kind of decide like how much power are you giving a person or an entity to hurt you? Really?
Right?
Like if you whatever, like like who are these like what can these people really do to you? I mean, think about it from that point of view, right, Like if you like, let's say you're really nice to some guy and you think he's your friend and then once you can't get once you can't get him a nice dinner or whatever the fuck anymore he stops being your friend, are you gonna be like, oh, I'm so hurt that this guy is not my friend anymore, or like like it's just some guy. What's he gonna do to you?
You know?
I Mean it's different. I like, if you're getting if you're getting married to someone, or uh, it's going into deep business with someone or something like that, something where someone really actually can like fuck you over very badly. Then you wanna like kind of vet that shit. But like ninety nine point of all people and all interactions like who gives a fuck?
You know?
Yeah, like if like like like you know what I mean, Like like certain like really specific roles in your life need to be thought through deeply, like am I being true?
Trusting? Like and even fund dude, fuck even in those roles, right, Like let's say you're dating someone. Fuck even to those roles. It's like, let's say you're dating someone or you're in a business own or whatever, and you're like, whatever, I'm just gonna decide to trust this person, and then you
get fucked over. It's like, well, you know, well you go to bed at night and you can go, well, I made the decision to be trusting and to put myself out there and whatnot, and I'm okay with that decision, and I'm living in the whatever of that decision. But I'm not gonna like I just think it's so I don't need to go around being like, oh, is this person a snake? Are they gonna It's like who ca, what's anyone gonna, you know, do like, who who cares?
Do you know what I'm saying, Yeah, I do, I do, I do, I I understand, you know. Sort of in a way, it's sort of taking back control right of how you feel and not letting people dictate how you feel. Yeah, I feel like this is something as as someone who has borderline that I always struggled with growing up, Like I always take things very personally, and so if anyone ever has it doesn't even have to be a bad reaction. It can just be a very neutral reaction to something
I do. It would sort of be the end of the world for me, Like I would care a lot about how other people reacted to me and how other people saw me, and if I could share a little story. Actually, a while ago, I was listening to your podcast. So I'm like, I'm quite a tattooed dude. I've got like
I would say, like half my body's covered. And I listened to you one of your podcasts a while back, and there was this guy talking about, you know, just caring a lot about what other people thought, and then you told him and this was I think when you were still doing live streams a lot and you know, you always used to say, like, don't look at the chat. Yeah, and then that time you told him like, don't look at the chat, but like the chat is sort of
like the world, not the actual literal stream chat. And then that sort of really resonated with me. And then I got a tattoo of that. So now I have a tattoo look at the.
Chat, get the fuck out of here. You have a tattoo that says don't look at the chat that you got from the podcast.
Yeah, don't.
Get the fuck out of here, no way.
Yeah, And every time I sort of start spiraling into like, oh my god, what do people think of me? You know, why don't they reply me? Why don't I look at that? And I go, you know, remind myself, don't look at the chat. Don't look look at yourself.
Don't look at the chat. I love it. I love it. I love that. Wow. I can't believe we got a tattoo that yeah. Oh my god, Wow, that's so far.
Wow.
I'm getting a real kick out of this. Oh my god, don't look.
At the chat.
No And by the way, yeah, don't look at the chat, like, but I do. I do. I do genuinely believe fuck especially as I'm getting like fucking especially as I'm getting like older, and I'm like like, as I'm getting older and as like there's less time, and as there's less energy, and as there's like more things I want to do, I'm just like and also as like there's less time and there's more noise, Like we live in a world where there's never been more like there's all there's so
many things that decide to care about. I think you just really I think like you really gotta whittle down the things and the people whose opinion you care about, Like you should like absolutly like if you if you don't care about anyone or anything, like your life is going to be an existential nightmare. But you totally should like be very intentional about like the things and the people that you care about. I mean, I have it
down in my head. I in my I've like I've like sat down on like my notes app and been like I care about these people's opinion of me. I care about like in like my personal life and like my business relationships in my fucking like like like the art universe, like the things I want to do. I'm like, I like writing I literally have like written down, like what do I actually give a fuck about? And then you realize, like when when you actually write, like when
you like what do you actually like? What's actually worth giving a fuck about? And then you look at the universe and all and all of the infinite things and people in the universe that are begging for you to care about them. It's too much like the you know what I mean, It's just it's too much, and you will get swept you will get swept away by it.
It's like you have to think about like friends that you just like don't have, Like everything's a fucking trade off you have to think about like fuck, I don't have time to like stew over, like but this fucking person thinks about me, or like go have like I don't have lunch with this fucking person because like whatever, it makes life way better. I mean, don't you don't want to be one of those people. It's like I
don't care. I literally don't give a funk about anyone or anything because that's just a question, right, It's not good. But you want to have like select, yeah, you want to have like select few people that you're like I really care what this person thinks about me because I love them, and like if this person, like if this person, like we all have, like you ever have like a friend, like in Hong Kong, you have a friend come to
town and they're like, we should get lunch. You have to really and it's like this could take up my whole life to go across town of lunch with you. I don't want to do that, you know. Now I have people who if they come to town, I'm like, of course, I will make time out of my existence. It's because
I love that, because I really love that person. But like I don't want to just say yes to like everything and everyone because I just because you just can or like on the TV when they're like this person said this or this thing happened or like or reddits or whatever like so it just fucking so many fucking things that fucking people just fucking trying to get you your attention away from like the things that you have
decided that matter all the time. And it's exhausting and you really have to be like deeply defensive about it. You like addictions to you know, fucking yeah, I mean candy takes dude, Candy takes up a lot of my time to Candy took up like my whole morning. It's crazy.
I think that's really true. Like also sort of deciding what and who matters to you in what way. I think another trait that I sort of have with borderline that I talked about a bit late just now is sort of it's quite sort of black and white. You know. I either say, like if we work together and we get along, I'm like, you're my friend, you know, but like it's a working relationship, right, it's not like they're really friends me. But in my mind we're like, oh, we're besties with friends.
Yeah, but why does okay? But okay, And another thing, and this is all in a similar subject with like again, like with relationships, Like like I like having a lot of acquaintances. You know, it's okay to have a quations, It's okay to have like work for like, it's okay to have have you know, your your relationships kind of teared out in a sense, you know, like it's and
and by the way, listen, listen. Let's say you have a work friend and you really like them and you want to be more than just what they have to give. That's okay, you know, like but just just find enjoyment in your own side of it. If you start needing to have the enjoyment being like what is coming back at you, you just get fucked.
That's where he's zen.
Yeah, I'm trying to live it.
But are you getting a lot of zen in Japan?
Am I getting a lot of zen in Japan?
Uh?
Not really? I don't feel I don't no, not really, no, no, not at all. Yeah, I don't think that like, uh zen, I mean I find I don't like. Finding zen is not about like going to some fucking temple, you know what I mean. It's about like finding a flow of It's like finding a flow and frequency of your life that works for you.
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like sort of what you said about all these external things that bomb bard you every day, and then we kind of developed this idea that I will be happier if I fix everything outside or everything external, but maybe in reality it's you know, inward maybe.
No, I disagree with that. I actually think I totally I think that I used to. I use it. It's total cope. It's like it's it's a stow no, no, it's stoic cope to believe that I by the way, I've this is just how I feel today. I don't know, don't I'm not gonna record this and put it on the internet, but I actually totally am because we get
into a podcast today. But I've I've talked about this a lot on the show, and I've just like think about it in my life, like the concept of like to what degree I'd love to submit myself to the stoic belief that like everything is internal, But I I don't think that's a full truth because I do think so much of one of of internal peace is based off external reality, and I think it's a I think it's a disservice to say that you can just like
at least me, at least me. I can't just go into my brain and be like this is all in my head, Like I can't just do that. Like I need, like I just need stuff, Like I need like a clean room that's like my own. I need like to have like certain certain like things going on in my life.
I need my life to like feel a certain way day to day and like my my external habits to have like like I like, I like I need there's so much I need reflected in my external reality to feel regulated and like normal, and I don't think that's uh crazy. Necessarily get a lot of and I get I get a lot of motivation, like waking up in the morning trying really hard to uh get my external reality to a place like that where I'm enjoying the
frequency of it. But I don't. I less and less believe in this like stoic ideal that like you can just be chill in your own brain. I mean, but that's just me. Everyone's wired differently, right, so there's some people some people can just do that. And uh also also I'm not like like I like, there's so much I don't know about myself and about like neurochemistry or whatever, where it's like, I don't know, maybe in like twenty years,
I'll realize I was doing everything wrong. And I also I do so much wrong already where.
It's like but I think that's what makes your podcast so interesting because I've listened to you since like pandemic times, and like you, you also evolve and you also develop your beliefs. You know, it's a journey for you. It's you know, it's not like you just have a set of beliefs and everyone calls in and you're like, no, do this, do this, do this, And it was quite interesting to see your journey to finding sort of your
truth over the years and growing with the audience. I think that was quite interesting.
Well thanks man. Yeah, I mean, I'm it's still like it's all it's progressing. I keep I mean I talked to about it with another caller where I was like, I still and I and I do. I do believe this in the in the true in like the whole uh you know, is happiness found externally or internally thing.
I do believe that, Like I can I can think about, like I can map out my life and all the different things that were going on externally in my universe at different times in my life, and like it was just it would just be ignorant to say that they don't affect you, you know, like and like it would be yeah, would just be ignorant to say that they
don't have an effect. But it's a yin yang. It's like the yin yang thing of like, yeah, it's not you can't go the entire like you you can't just like retreat into stoicism and have everything be internal and pretend like external world doesn't affect you. But you also can't have everything be external, right, I mean, like like I'll like work for an example, Right, Like I think a lot of like people get hung up on, like especially in the social media world, like success based on
numbers and all these things. And I do have a thing where I'm kind of trying to make more of my happiness about my input into the world and less about like the outcome of it.
So like.
So like I you know, like I'm making these documentaries and like, of course, like I'm working really hard on them. And because I'm working really hard on them, I want them to get views. I want people to see them, because I think it's just a natural thing if you work really hard on something, you care about it, you want people to see it. But I'm also trying not to be too married to this idea that like my health and existence as a person is like based on
the the outcome of these videos. But I get and I'm trying to be like, okay, like what's a thing, Like what's that? What's that? What's a mode of life?
What's like a thing where like I'm in the most amount of control as possible, meaning like for these videos, right, it's like it's like, Okay, would I be happy if over the next ten years I was able to just keep making Like if over the next ten years, I just keep making these videos and they and nothing ever like pops off again, and all I really got was like to have made the video, I'd be like, yeah, you know, that's a good trade off. I get to make a lot of you know, stuff that I'm proud of,
and I think about that. I try to apply that to a lot of stuff where it's like, Okay, what processes would I be happy to just do because of the process of them, and because I enjoy it? Obviously I want like I obviously like I if I if I work really hard on something and then it it you put it out there and it's not received, well it's it is a bummer, but it's not enough of a bummer that I'm going to be like, oh, there was a waste of time. Why did I do that?
You know, it'll it I'll still be able to look at the work and be like, oh, I'm proud of having done this, whether or not the you know, the external awards come. But that's how you have to do it right, because it to get those external rewards. It's going to require years and years and years of you just like kind of being only focused on your input, and so you have to find a frequency of input that you are actually happy existing in or else you're
gonna burn out. You're not gonna fucking do anything.
That's very true. That's very true.
Well, Jeff, I don't know if any of what I think I spent on a rant.
No, but it's it's it's like a rant of of substance.
I'm trying, but I haven't figured it out yet.
But Jeff, yes, is.
There anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?
Don't look at the chat.
Don't look at the chat. I can't believe you got that tattooed on your hand. That's also that's another Dan. That's another thing in life where it's like the chat's so big. It's there's so many people in the fucking chat, and it's like, who do I? I guess stop reading the Spotify comments. I'll really I'll watch other'll you know,
actually has made me feel better. I'll listen to other podcast I listened to other podcasts, and then I'll like enjoy the podcast and then I'll read the Spotify comments on that podcast and there'll be a bunch of comments being like, you know, like critical, and I'm like, oh, well, I enjoyed it, and it's like maybe something with my brain. I don't know, I'm crazy whatever, Jeff, is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before.
We go, Well, I've said the thing, so Gek, you should come to Hong Kong. We love you.
I mean, I'll make it over there at some point.
Please do please do that swag.
Oh wait, I did I ask you that question twice?
You did? Yeah. My first answer was don't look at the chat, and then we did a second take where I said, come to Hong Kong.
I gotta see a doctor.
Man, it's jet lag. Take it easy, Yes, you too, Love you, Gek.
My name Jeff.
Never goes on the line taking your phone calls every night.
Never bet goes doing to ride.
He's teaching you how to live your life, but he's not really an expert.