Our friend armand Hello, Hi?
Who is this?
Hi? Hi?
This is armand Armand what's up?
Armand?
Yeah? I'm good? How are you?
Uh?
Yeah, not too bad?
Man?
What what is it that brings you into my Gecko show today?
Uh? So I did say I'm good, but I'm mentioning that feel too good? Uh, I don't know. I tink to you a couple of times. I a'my lng.
In and your Iranian?
Yes, m And I don't know if you have seen anything in the news, but for the past uh, for the past week, there's been an internet shutdown in Milan, so we shuldn't really hear anything from me. Ran. Well, there's there's a few things here and there. People are trying to, you know, make their voices heard. But it's it's been very difficult, and I've been doing a little stress and and I thought maybe I should call in, try calling in and see uh it should be interested in hearing.
Yeah, definitely, definitely. So Okay, So you're you're Iranian? And where do you live right now? Because you're not You're not there.
I'm not there, you know, I'm im in. I'm living I'm living in Toronto. But I had the time living in Okay.
Did you live there for a bit?
I did. Yeah, I lived there until I was twenty four, until you were twenty four. Yeah that was that was a few years ago. Yeah. I did grow up there, So I know what the government is by, I know what the people are like, and I know that you know, everyone had their biases. But I want to try and give you one non partisan of whatever you would call it.
You sure, sure, but I just I want to just get a profile of you first.
Sure.
So Okay, So three years ago you moved from Iran to Toronto. And so what you're like twenty seven?
Not two years ago? About six seven years ago? Uh? Yeah, I moved out.
Okay? Cool? And what made you want to move from Iran to Toronto?
Uh well, A big part of it was the economic situation alone, and uh the general state of things. I just didn't think that this dre anymore.
Mm hm.
You were in were you in Tehrant?
Yes? Yeah?
And did you move to Toronto? Did you move to Toronto with anyone or did you come here completely alone?
No? No, I moved to Montreal and I was in Montreal for a while and then I moved to Tolano. I would be okay staring more information, but just so you know that your own region is it is a big stat of check. I'm not here to just send political messages or anything, but uh, it is difficult for people to talk, and a lot of people still refuse to voice their opinions and their rage even because they they don't want to be what do you call it
talks whatever. They don't want the reason to know, even if they are outside.
Of you on I I listen, I I I definitely have more questions about Iran itself, but I still want to know. You've been living in Toronto for uh? They said about six years?
Yes?
And how how has it been? How has the experience there been compared to your experience in Iran?
Well, and it's very different. I don't know where to start, okay, just to describe what my experience was right before I moved out of Iran, I was I was going around talking to people, you know, just living a normal life as the average Iranian would. Two. I wasn't the political person. I still don't consider myself a very politically active person.
But but just how life was in Neuron was that the value of their ruanium currency kept dropping day by day, week by week, months by months, kept getting worse and worse.
And there's something you can check online. So I don't want to get too in through it, but just to describe to you what the situation was, I would be talking to someone and they would they would tell me that it doesn't make sense for them to work anymore because they wouldn't have enough money to get to their workplace, so it wouldn't make sense for them to work anymore. And this was back when I was in Iran. This was mostly two colored people, but more recently it has
been everybody. So it doesn't make sense for a white collar worker to go to their office because that doesn't pay you for the cab right there or whatever the gas to get to their office. So that was one big thing that that I don't living here. You know, my situation isn't great, but at least I don't have to worry about the value of my currency dropping every day, and and even just not being able to afford anything.
At this point, it got to a point that people can't afford food anymore, and they can't bring food home to their children. And this is true for again like white collar wouldens at this point, So I'm just trying to Yeah, of course.
So h so six years ago, i've when you made the decision to go to Canada? Do you save up money to get there?
Like?
How how did you get there?
Uh? Be perfectly honest, I had my family support and I I consider myself somewhat privileged in that my family, I'm rich, but they could afford helping me get out of you and I am very grateful to them for that.
And he said that, I'm sorry. I know I asked you this there and maybe I just fucking missed the answer. But did they Did you go alone? Did you go with family? Do you have any friends come with you?
I came alone. I had I had relatives in Montreal, but I did. I did.
And so when you first got to Toronto, what what were you doing for work?
So? While I was in Montreal, I couldn't work because I was on I could only work part time because I was on a student visa basically a student work permit or a student I studied permit and I could only work part time. I was working at a Southway the past food. Uh that was that was Montreal. And then when I got here. I was already because I was studying in Montreal. So when I got to Toronto, I started applying and I found my job, and I'm
doing okay. Now, Toronto was very expensive, and I'm not making amble of money, but I'm compared to what's going on in you and what I could be doing if I were back home. Honestly, I think if I were back home, i'd be unemployed at this one. So, yeah, I'm doing a lot there.
Did you mention what Liz you're doing for work in Toronto?
I didn't, And I don't know if I'm comfortable saying all of this. I don't know. Is that okay if I.
Don't of course, yeah, of course, of course.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know, Yeah, yeah, of course, Sorr. I was gonna say, I don't know what it would look like if it wasn't okay, you know what I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't hang up on you. There's many other things I want to talk to you about. So so your mom and dad and siblings. Who's who's in Iran right now?
I don't know how I should say. Again, I I think this might get out and I don't know some of this might be just mean being paranoid.
I don't know, how what do you what are you paranoid about?
So I don't know if you heard. But what I can say for certain based on everything I'm hearing from Iran and people have talk to firsthand who have been able to get in touch good family in Iran, which is very difficult right now, is that thousands of people have died and there's a care few and uh, there's basically Marshall State, you know. I don't know if that's
the correct straying, but there is a martial law. Martial law, yeah, and and there's there's just no discrimination that people are people are being shot at it if if they're outside, it's just well being not doing anything in groups. And it is very scary. And I just don't know, and I don't want to get anyone in trouble directly. Uh and uh, I think I think that I just don't.
I just don't know if me saying anything out of mind could lead to somebody ah getting harmed in any way, but I don't want to do that.
I am listen, you don't have to say anything you don't want to say. I'm I'm pretty sure the Iranian government is not listening to the Therapy Echo podcast. But you still don't have to You can do whatever you want. But I still have questions for you. So, I mean, regardless of the specifics of who you know, have you been able to get in touch with the people that you you you do know there?
So the last message I got personally was Thursday, Thursday last week, so it's been a week since I heard anything. I lost messages for people, but they haven't been delivered. Uh. And I don't know what's happening on the other end, so I have no idea of my family there or even safe. I heard something from one of my aunts who lives in the US. She told me that she contacted a friend of hers and they contacted my family members and they said that they were okay. But I
don't know. I don't I don't have any specifics. And it's been a week since I heard anything from my my family members there. The calling there, I left no message. I tried calling. My calls don't go to Some people say that they have had calls coming out of Iran. So people you know, I means, who are outside your room right now, got calls from inside Iran, but they couldn't call back. They couldn't call they couldn't make any
calls to Iran. And that's been a situation called about a week now and there's been a total internet blackout. There are a few people getting some stuff out with starlink. I don't know if you remember all that Elon Musk starlink mom. I have no idea how they work, but apparently some of those got into yourn and people have
been using that very sparingly. Like the amount of information that's coming out of Yon is very very little, and all day run in people that I had been in contact with, people I you know, people I grew up with, people I knew from school. They're completely silent this past week because they can't make their words or they don't have access to the internet.
M So, so you said that there's been Okay, So I've I've been reading the news a little bit and I'm gonna summarize what my understanding is of what's going on, and then uh, you can help me fill in these these gaps. So basically, my understanding is that these widespread protests going on in Iran, UH and the government is cracking down on those protesters and as and it's what you just said is freaky about they're not making a distinction between protesters and people just stand in the fuck around,
which is which is spooky. Uh why well okay, why.
Uh?
Why why are why are people protesting? And also like why why is why are they protesting now?
So just to be clear there, I've been protests going on for quite a while now. I wish I was a little more educated on these matters. I know. The latest products in Iran huber In the latest bigger protests in Iran that became international news were in twenty twenty two and twenty three about Masmini protests and that was the woman Wife's freedom progress and again thousands of people died in those protests, a lot of people were arrested.
That again the internet was shot down before that. I was in twenty nineteen there were massive protests in on because the regime, as they say, by mistake, they are shut down a plane, a passenger plane in Tyhran and people came industry. They were massive protests and that was the first huge internet shutdown back in twenty nineteen. So these products have been going on for years. But to anserior plush specifically, right now, people are set up with
a lot of things. They won't freedom, they want their voices heard, they want basic civil rights, human rights that they've been deprived of. But it's got two points where people don't have a choice anymore because the majority of people are so poor that they can't afford very basic food food stuff like they can't afford eggs, they can't afford a regular on a regular income, you can't afford eggs or tuna for your family. You can afford the
basy vegetable stream. And that's just food. I'm not talking about the price of gas or your rent or whatever. So this is this is a huge This is a huge issue for the Iranian people, especially because when when I was living in your this wasn't a situation. You know, there was some poverty, but it wasn't so widespread. I
can't put a number to it. I can't put a percentage it, but I know that at this point, at least judging by something that hurt from the Onion government themselves, at least like eighty percent of the people are in poverty. So the thing is they don't have a choice anymore because if they stay home at the end of the month, they're still gonna perish at this point. So it is I don't know if this is being setting the news, but they run and people really don't have a choice anymore.
They're they're fighting for their survival, not for not for anything else. You know, I hear a lot of people saying that they're being incited by the West or employe Asrall or whoever.
I what what is what?
What is the what is the argument that they're being Who's arguing that they're being incited by the West?
Well, I don't know, man, I've been reading too much news honestly, whole past week of my phone, non stuff, and uh, I just see a lot of triggering stuff. Uh, I don't know. I don't know if it's just rage faid or you know, there there is propaganda coming out of ground. There is a lot of propaganda coming out of your own And I was just talking to my girlfriend, like my dad, she said something that you know, it
was her opinion. They come because she's about Iranian and these weren't her opinions based on what she had heard in the news and other political abouts and whatnot.
And what was her opinion.
So there were a couple of points that she made that Ah, sorry, I'm not blanking all a little bit. But one thing I remember specifically was the Balcanization of Iran. I don't know if you're familiar with the concept, but basically she was saying, Iran is going to be broken into different states if there's if there's the Western basically, if there's Western people coming and messing with the situation.
Oh in West Western. Okay, So you're saying that Iran, your girlfriend thinks Iran is gonna split into two uh different states if the West comes in and intervenes with what's going on. Yeah, and then what I assume I assume I assume would it be one state, uh whatever proxy governed by the West versus the one state that's ran by the regime.
So specifically, specifically, what I what I heard when I was living in Iran, when I was going up in Iran over and over again, was that if there's Western into once Ian intergration, if there is a war, if there is unrest, there's going to be abouganization of Iran and a separation of all the different states of Jan and there's going to be actually more than a few states, so the Courtish part of Iran. This is by the way,
not true at all. I just at least I'm not I'm not a prophet, you know, I'm not a I can't say for certain that this is definitely not going to happen. But judging by how this was the Iranian regimes propaganda all all of my childhood and adulthood, I know that this is something that they've drummed up and this is their opinion, and this is what they're steaking to.
So there's definitely something in it for them. And they believe that Kurdistan is going to get separated from your on, which is the western western part of Iran.
So it's the so you believe it's the current regimes desire to have Iran split into multiple states.
No, but that is there. That is something they're using as leverage. That is their propaganda. For lack of very words, that is that, that is their instruments. That is one of their instruments of terror, because that's what they keep telling people whenever there is civil unrest in Iran. They keep telling people all these people are Westerners. They're paid by the US, They're paid by outside forces and uh, yeah, there are trying to.
So it's being it's it's used as a propaganda tool where the regime is like trying to convince people that the protesters are uh. The regime wants people to know, uh, wants people to think that the protesters are like Western actors attempting to split the state.
Exactly. Yes, yes, And this is may I say, I I know there are different political side than everything. This was my experience growing up in Iran. And I can I can prove it that. You know, there's so much evidence out there that this is the Iranian the Islamic Republics stands on the civil long rest in Iran.
So how long has the regime? How long has this current regime been in power?
For it for forty seven years, has been in power for forty seven years.
It's a slave guy.
Yeah, it's the Islamic Revolution back in nineteen seventy nine. The government of Iran has been the Islamic Republic of Iran, and that is what they call the country now. And just because you said the same guy, there is a sort of full election process. There is false democracy, if not an actual democracy. It happens in a lot of places in the Middle East and in other places in
the world as well as well. But in in its core there is one one political group and uh it's one person at the top, and there there is a system of oligarchy.
But uh wait, so what's the who's the who's the one person I'm looking right now, massued Uh yeah, so is he like the guy or is he like a puppet for a different guy who actually has the power.
So the mass which as is is a pupp is, as you said, a puppet. I don't want to use very strong words here, but he is quote unquote the alexa president of your own at the moment, he is not. He is not a very important figure. Uh the most important figure in the country right now is uh say as many oh.
I say, here you go that yeah, okay, So he's the Okay, he's a supreme lead. He's a supreme leader of ira Yes since uh oh ship Okay, he's the longest serving head of state in the entire Middle East. That's crazy, Yes, forty seven years, I mean eighty six.
He is barely alive, honestly, but this is this is the person who took it, took the reins after the death of the Test of Harmony, So technically not forty seven years because the revolution got started by another figure, but uh how many came right afterwards?
So is so uh m hmm, what do you think? What do you think? I think this is very interesting. I don't usually don't know, you know, I don't talk a lot about politics on this podcast, but I but like, as a on an individual level, I'm like very fascinated
in them. And and you know, American politics two And I'm like, I don't know if we have I don't know if Americans have the U, if we if we'll if we're going to really be able to do that, you know, like in the way like where you got Like I feel like in other countries when they just have like a fucked up government, like they really they really go at it. But I think you gotta be It makes sense. It makes sense that like true revolutions are primarily happening when people like literally just have no
other option, like it's pure survival. Maybe maybe America like we're still maybe we're still too comfortable, I mean, especially compared to other countries to ever like you know, and we're too big for us to ever do like a crazy, uh, full scale revolution the way that other countries have.
I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, I'm gonna be honest. When I called you, I wanted to just say as much as I can about to prow this happening in your and I'm the guy had you started with the basics and you know, trying to understand what the situation, and then it's very perceptive of you to say that
you can't really connect with it that deeply. And I'm genuinely good I've had you fill that with because growing up in a totalitarian state is an awful, awful thing and I wouldn't lose it on anybody, And just about the US itself, I don't want to quote, I don't want to get anybody Quoteah.
We're here, we're here, we're here, let's do it say whatever.
Yeah, I don't personally, I don't consider myself a left, but a lot of my ideas, a lot of the things I stand for are left leaning at least as or as the US political left goes. But but yeah, I I'm trying to make a cohesive comment here. But I just think the US political left has nothing to do. That's that's the wrong way putting it, It has no equivalent in Iran. Like, there's no no, there's nothing that I can point to in your own and say, oh, this is somehow reminding me of the political agenda.
Don't you really I would? There's not even there's no like I mean, are there not even any fringe movements in Iran that are you think are similar?
So you talked about the president of Iran and a few nuts back, this guy is actually called a reformists. So the are two, yes, yeah, there are two, at least on paper, there are two political groups in Iran. There's not really any divides. There's only one Islamic group, and he is of the reformist group. These are these people are supposed to be the political left in Iran. But the fact of the marry is that all these protests that happened, the protest that is happening right now,
the protests that happened in back in thirteen eighty eight. Paly, I'm using because we use a different calendar system, So thirteen eighty eight have been four and sixteen years ago. The protest that happened then there under reformist government quote unquote, a lot of people got killed and a lot of people got arrested. So there is there's really no real political left in me wrong, there is no there is no opposition to be honest, and there are people outside
of youran that sort of take on that mantle. But again, I don't want to get tuned to the politics of it. I don't want to bore your audience. I would rather people no.
I yeah, Well, actually it's funny you call because I'm like, I'm very lately becoming on a personal level more interested in geo politics after like, you know, fucking traveling and uh,
traveling to Iraq. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I don't know, I haven't I haven't talked about this on the podcast, but I'm going to Ukraine in four days to make a video there, so I don't And I've also just been thinking about fucking America, been thinking about I talked to Gemini about Israel and Palestine for like six hours the other day, so I've just been I've been thinking about a lot of this ship. What's it going to say? Oh, yes, oh,
I was gonna bring this up. There's this there's this TikTok, this video that I don't know if it's the same video if it's a bunch of different videos, but it's going around and it's of these like younger teens in uh, I think in Tehran who are like putting on like a I if I think I'm correct that they're putting on like a punk concert and like nobody's wearing a hit job, and it's very like, uh, you know, like this this like punk rock kind of informal thing happening
on the streets. If you've seen the video and that's not what this is. It's something like that. I don't know the exact thing, but okay, you've seen it, Okay, And then a bunch of people are like, bro, does secular mean religious or non religious? So if you say something as non secular, that means it's not religious, right.
So sexually, my understanding of it is, and if I'm wrong, I don't want to chats right now or way.
I can google this, okay, hold on.
Yeah, my understanding of it is it's a state where religion and politics are separate.
Okay, all right, So ira so okay, basically okay, So that would mean people in the comments are saying that Iran is slowly becoming more secular. Do you think that's do you think that's true? And do you think do you think that like we're looking at like the future of the country, do you think that like it will it will become like slowly over generations more secular, or do you think that like, uh, like regimes and people in power are going to like shut that down.
So just to speak to the people in the chat, I'm I'm I'm not sure I'm being a little technologically illiterate because I can't see your chat right now, but uh, for the people in your chat to be perfectly almost with you, and uh, I mean, I don't I don't want this to get misconstrued. But since twenty twenty two when the Mason MiQ photests happened, because a big, a large focus of those photos was the mandatory h job laws.
So they wanted they wanted to make it so that people could wear whatever they want, uh m hm, for women not specifically not to have to wear a job. So that was what happened in twenty twenty two and to government twenty three. There are other civil rights issues that the people were fighting for, but that was a large focus then and since then, since then, the government has been has been trying to let go of those
laws a little bit. It has been, it has become it has become a little more lax on those laws. And the reason for that is the government, in my opinion, and this is this, that is my opinion, the government is trying to buy itself more time by appealing to the general population of your on and people.
You think it's a four dy chess move of like we'll give a few, well, well it will sprinkle a little bit of secularism here, buyer sells more time to like to take it all away. Is that what you're saying.
Pretty much? Yes, But what I also what I'm also saying is that so so for the people in Iran, if not that they've been given the specific rights, maybe some people feel like they've they've made some headway and it's a bargain of sorts and the government is trying to sort of pay them off by giving them these specific freedom. But first of all, the laws are still that a job is mandatory in Iran, it's just not being forced as much as before. So that's one thing.
And also when you have people without his job going around in Iran. You can take videos of that and send it, send it too far, impressed and tell them all you're on is free. You're on is like Lebanon run, like the U A E. It's like Dubai. People are having, you know, the time of their lives. That is certainly not the case. And uh for a lot of people, you know, people are still getting you know, arrest. That's for not having his job. It's just not happening as much as before.
Mm hmmm mm hmm h what's your name again?
Uh?
My name is Armah Ahmed armand ar armand armand Arma, armand armand and yes, how you how you feel in armand.
Frankly, I'm I'm very hired. I uh, you know, I haven't had a call any week from many one inside you on so uh at this point because some other people, I don't know if everybody has had called some of the people have talked to you and whatever day I've
had calls from you on. So now that I haven't been in contacted by anybody on wondering if somebody has died and they are not calling me because if they do, they would have to go ah, and that is very difficult and uh, well a lot of scary stuff is also happened there, so mm hmmm, it just uh yeah, I've just been very tired that I've been eating the needs and I've been trying to you know, be active
on social media. That there's nothing else I can do, and uh, I just wanted to get on here and talk to people because maybe you haven't had maybe you haven't seen a lot of publical views online, but you might see it in the future. And I just warned people to know that there are lives that's taking here on. There are people who are suffering, and I feel like this is the least I can do two to just tell people what's going on and whatever, what are political
stuff is going on out there. The people are still you know, they're suffering, they're dying, they're getting arrested, they're having their basic human rights pummeled, and I I just wish I could do more. Uh h yeah, I am, I don't know. I did you want to ask something else? I really want to talk as much as possible because I think I feel like I have a I have
a duty, you know. I uh, I'm not sure if I'm sure you guys have heard of like survivor's guilt I feel a little bit of survivors guilt, and I have been feeling that for since I moved to Canada, because uh, I have been in contact with people on your own and a lot of them are doing it very, very poorly. And uh uh that could be me. You know, I could tell myself that could be and it could be me who's unemployed. It could be me who's who can't afford anything. It could be me who who dreams
about having a car or even phone. It could be me there and now, it could be me fighting for my life, fighting for food, and uh, things like these don't know any public and you know, when people are hungry, that's that's the end of the line. And I think it's very important from you to the goals of my people. And I just wish I was more elocal, and I wish I was more politically savvy. I wish I knew more. I wish I studied more so that I could say more, well, I know, well.
I'm in you, but you well, it's you know, it's funny to me because that you say It's funny to me that you say that because and this is kind of this is my uh you know, I like kind of approaching these conversations through the lens of like who are you right? Because I was like asking you more questions about yourself earlier and you were like, well, I would I want to you know, more talk about h you know, kind of uh broader political issues.
But to me, I I think.
You know, your your knowledge of a specific thing is is less is I will say to me, what's more powerful is just you as a person and your feelings and your your lived experience and and so I think you're sending a really strong message to people just simply through your lived experience, you know, regardless of political savviness, your your you know, you you lived there for twenty four years and you saw things that you can talk about, not you know, filtered through uh a journalist or a
social media post or a text message. So you know, to me, your just sharing of your lived experience is I think a lot more powerful than you having some kind of uh savviness over the complex information in regarding any kind of geo geopolitical issue and uh, you know, before we go, I I I appreciate you sharing all
of this stuff with us. And I'm I'm I'm, I'm like, I'm seriously praying for you and for your family, and you know it's also thanks for coming, Thanks for coming to my dumb show to talk to talk about all of this stuff. I really, you know, I appreciate it.
Can I just say, okay, I know your time is on school valuable and I don't want to go ahead get into too much. But by the way, if you're interested in how I was living there on and I could talk about that, but I don't want to. I don't want to drag this on forever. I can talk about my childhood, and there's a lot of When I talk about my childhood, people listen then are fascinated, whether in a good way or bad way. Definitely in a bad way. But I can talk about my childhood if
you're interested. But just getting on the show, I want to make this clear. I know a lot of people from all different sorts of political ideas. They listen to your show, you know, really left, right, whatever, listen to your show, and you talk to something very personal and human. And I was sure that if I get on your show,
you would ask questions that were the right questions. And I feel like you have to show and again, I don't know I'm not gonna, you know, have a show call on your podcast or whatever, but if you did want to hear more about my childhood, I'm willing to talk about it. I think it would be important let people know about it too. I don't know, it's not it's okay.
Any stick mm hmm, yeah, do you want to.
Yes? So yeah, And I don't want to use two strong language, but okay. I remember when I was when I started going to school. Uh. And this is true of schools all true Iran. First of all, it's a boys' school and girls' schools. There's no co education unless it's in a very small village somewhere. And it just doesn't make sense to have two classrooms because you know, there's there's just one teacher and he's trying to teach like
multiple multiple levels. But generally, like in Tehran, all the schools are segregated by I don't know if that's the right work, but they're split by gender and uh, and that's all the way to secondary school like high school. And UH. When I started going to school, we used to uh in in the school yard and we would it would ask us to form lines like military lines, and I don't know if there's normal. Maybe it's normal
in some places. I don't know if it ever happens in the US, but uh, we would basically form lines and uh uh whatever you call it. The dean, the the head teacher that.
Sorry, the principal or dean probably I suppose yeah.
Sorry, I'm again, this is my second language. The principle would get up, uh on I put him and he would start chanting things and uh chanting religious stuff. And depending on all the time of the year, it is, uh there was a specific religious Uh. I wouldn't call it holidays, but there it would be like the death of my mom or somebody, and they would change things for that, and they would read a bit of kron and then they chant things like death to as well
as to America. They would change stuff like this. This is the exact thing. Yes to six year olds. Six year olds all around your on and we would we wouldn't know what it means. But I don't go where the US. Wise, you know, when you were talking to a six year old, the six year old doesn't know where you know, it's you talk to a six year old in the US, they might not know where. I don't know, for example, where Minnesota is. No, they wouldn't
even have a clear idea. They might not even have a clear idea of what a country is and whether the US is and Minnesota. I remember when I was a kid, I think at some point I thought that Iran was a place in Tehran because I was a kid, like I didn't know anything anything right, right, So but at that age, it would make you chant and like to this this entity and that entity. And you know, it's just very when people talk about industry nation, that's
that's really what it is. And I just want to make it clear that doesn't mean that everybody in London is in doctrine naked or a games all Western entities or whatever, especially now because you know, now is the age of internet. But when I was the kid, we didn't have internet. The internet was just coming around. You know, we're about the same age, so you know, I remember I remember Google coming around, like I remember Marcus of ninety eight, and back then people didn't know, but they
didn't have all that information that they have now. They didn't have access to social media. But now people know, and still they chanced these things at that level. And when I was a kid, you know, you have music classes at school? You have I don't know. Yeah, let's start with music classes. We don't. We didn't have any sort of art classes. I remember one year in middle school we have we had a sort of painting class, drawing sort of class, and that was the only only
year I had that. And we had shopped for one year as inn you know, uh workshop where you do woodworking or whatever, and that was it that those were my two classes. Instead, we had things like religious studies, and we had Arabic. I mean, it's it's a language. There's nothing wrong with Aratic. I'm you know, if you're interested in studying it, more power to you. It has
if a beautiful language is a history whatever. But we would study Arabic specifically to study the Quran, and we would have so we would have Arabic, we would have a separate class for Quran. We would have a separate class for religious studies. And then when I got to high school, we had a class called defense, defense preparation something like that. It's I'm trying to translate here, and
that might not be the exact thing. But this this book, the textbook is basically all about gardens, all about you know, how to be prepared for a foreign attack, and this is this was a textbook at school, at high school level. And obviously, like when I was growing up, even this was in twenty ten, let's say we didn't really buy it. Like everyone in my class knew that this was nonsense, Like this was really.
Even when you are even when you were like, uh, you know, a high school, middle school, you were like, this is a this is a lot, this is not the thing.
Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm not saying that there was nobody I was. I was Again, I was kind of privileged. I wasn't rich. My family was middle rich, but we were middle class, upper middle class even at some points maybe so the people I hung out with were they had, uh, they had time in their day to sit down and think, and they had families who you know, they they've arn't wealthy. Thankfully I wouldn't. I wouldn't under a lot of super wealthy to our people because some of those people are
actually pro regime because they get paid by real regime. Again, I don't want to get too cool to go with this right now.
Is there a weird thing where like, is there a weird thing where like if you're like like if you're very poor and you have access to you you know, really don't have that much access to like greater education or greater information or even like time to think like you support the regime because of propaganda, and then if you're really really rich, you support the regime because the regime acts in your favor.
That that is basically that is very perceptual of you. I was I was trying to uh put that into words, but that is more less it access. There are a lot of pool people. There are a lot of pool people in your own who are against the regime. But just to be clear, there are some people who are so starved for information or they're so heavily inductrin that they don't really know they have an option to oppose the regime or complain about things.
Even Yeah, it doesn't.
Even like consciously register. Like they're so deep in like the indoctrination of it, like the idea that they could not it's like not even in the consciousness.
Yeah, like they don't even even with the Internet. I don't know how this is possible. But they're still a minority group out there who don't really understand that there is so much out there. I guess they don't install on Instagram on their phones or whatever, or they don't
use vpms because you don't know. I'm skipping ahead. But basically they don't have an idea of how people live outside of Iran, or they think that that sort of stuff is a complete fantasy, because if they saw normal life in Europe, in even in Turkey, if they if they could see what normal life is like in even Lebanon in Turkey, they would start complaining very heavily. But they don't. And again maybe they're just not connected. And I said the word vidend you guys know what a
viv ands. I'm sure it's a but in Iran it has a different meaning because the state sensors Internet very heavily, so you don't have access to in Iran. When I was living there, I didn't have access to YouTube, I didn't have access to Facebook, and I had access to Instagram, which was very weird for a while. And I think now you don't have access to Instagram either, So you have to use a private network of some kind of VPN to connect to the censored Internet inside of you.
On uh, and that's not the whole list, by the way. A lot of a lot of publications, a lot of different websites are censored inside Iran, so when you try to connect to them, you get a web page that basically tells you it has it has a bunch of blanks to other websites that are pro regeme or or whatever. Sorry, I'm I'm going on a bit. I don't know if you have any questions so far.
No, it's been really interesting to hear about about all of this. Yeah, like oh man, I I uh, well, it's you know, we had a guy on the podcast a few episodes ago who was talking about like, you know, he was raised like ultra orthodox Jewish and they had a similar he had a similar kind of a thing.
And it's it's weird. It feels like it's like the same story in a bunch of different places, Like I'm thinking about like North Korea too, about like people who just they just don't know about the the the like Greater Beyond, I guess because the government's done a really good job at censoring and you know all that stuff. Uh, And yeah, it's it is interesting to be like, man, you know, same same story across a bunch of same story across a bunch of different applications. You know, I'm
really and I'm a crap. I think we I crap. I think I do have to go uh kind of suit. But I know, you know, you don't apolgize, just Christ, you don't have to pologest for anything. This is I've been I've sincerely, really really enjoyed talking to you. It's yeah, dude, it's it's interesting. I mean, do you feel I know you've expressed a lot of your kind of conflicting feelings about being able to leave Iran and and go to the West, But are you, like I have a weird question.
There's a weird question, and this just has to do with like having an existential crisis. But like, you're an educated guy. I think I think it's it's almost it's pretty. It's I think it's objectively probably better to be educated than not. But like, you're an educated guy, right, But do you ever do you ever do you think rance would ever would be nice? You know what I mean?
What does that ever stay? Like? Just do you feel do you feel burdened by your own clarity of the greater universe that lies beyond?
It's an interesting question. I'm gonna I'm gonna respond by a scenario. Was something that actually happened to me when I was when I was just starting university in my
basslords in Iran, I read nineteen eighty four. Yeah, I read ninety eighty four, and I felt for a lot of week after I read it, I felt extreme anxiety and I just felt awful because I felt like I was living inside nineteen eighty four, Like there are people in your own who would tell on their neighbors, like you can you can get ahead by selling out people who you know to the government. That is exactly something that happens in nineteen eighty four, among other things that
I felt resonated. And I just want to say that I feel like if I wasn't an educated guy, I shouldn't read that book. It's not just about literacy. I think you have to go a little bit out of your way to read something like that, right, And it's a choice, like you have to sit down and you have to finish the book, even though it's genuinely like eating you up. And and I just want to say that I'm the I think I'm a better person for it. Yes, yes, yes,
any person, anyone might have a different depend members. But uh, the fact that I'm calling you right now, I'm trying to stand up and be the voice of the running people. Uh. I shouldn't say it like that because I'm I'm the voice of me. I just I'm trying to say sorry.
I'm sorry, go ahead what you're saying.
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not anybody who attorney you know, but I know a lot of people have had the same experience, and a lot of those people are still living in it, so it's been an even voice for them. If I if I didn't have the education that I've had, I wouldn't have a chance and a privilege to uh stand up with people. And I wouldn't have the chance to uh anymore because you know, the knowledge, even if
it brings pain with it. Uh, it's just still a privilege. Yes, yeah, if you don't have the knowledge, you can't you can't do anything. And uh.
Well oh sorry, sorry, sorry, I'll let you finish.
And other people who will suffer for it. M M. Yeah, that's that's all I wanted to say on that. If you really have to go, just give me a few seconds and uh them makes fun. It's not a statement, but just wonsibly a few words, but at least you were you were saying something.
Well, I you know, I uh, well, after I asked you that weird question, I was, well, I was, I was I was thinking about my own answer to it, and you you, your answer was really poignant the way you were, like, you know, even though the knowledge, the knowledge is freaky and and unsettling to you and break and really breaks your world down and can lead you to like this place of like existential depression and and all these things like it's I love the way you
phrase it, and I fully agree with it, which is that that you you have to view you get through the pain and then you uh kind of harness the power of the knowledge two to like, you know, help yourself and to help other people, like you're talking about and I I and I think that's really beautiful. And I also think, you know, you get like as you get older and as you settle in with stuff like you get you're like you just become more able to
handle it as a person. I think you just like be become more able to handle like uncomfortable information and shrewths and things you be. You you like grow like your your capability of strength like grows to what you need it to be, and then you can do things like what you're talking about, like you know, be a uh a powerful, you know, a voice of something. And I think that's cool. So I agree with you. It's better to it's better to have known and gone insane
than to have never known at all. I'm with you on that. I I I want to let I want to let you have your few seconds of that thing, of the of of the last few things you wanted to say before we get out of here.
Okay, First of all, thank you so much. You didn't have to talk to me for I don't know how many minutives have been Thank you so much. I really appreciate you. Otherwise as well. I just want to per few seconds to the people who are listening to this live or on the if it makes, if it makes it to object or whatever. I know that there's a lot of news out there, you know. I wish I could talk about this more, but this is happening right now.
It's not holding as we speak. There's people getting arrested and murders, and you know, IM portraying wrong. You don't have to take my word for it. You can do your own research, you can roll on, you can see whatever's out there. If you can spread the word, I would be personally grateful to you, even though we might never meet. I really appreciate you, and I know that you are going out of your way to help people that you have never met and you might never meet.
But this, the last few minutes, has been my story, and that has been the story of a lot of people in your on and if your own are suffering a lot more, and you know, I don't know if the US is gonna intervene in your own or not. I can't tell you for certain it's that's good or back. At this point, as horrible as it might sound to some people, I'm okay with it because I know the government in Yourn will stop it nothing and it will
keep on killing people. So I don't know that the people themselves might not be able to fuck that, and that's the only reason. That's the only reason. But forget about that. You know, you don't have to even think about the intervention. Just you know, aspective work. There are people suffering, and if you can't step the word, that would be very very grateful to you. And thanks again, While hey thank you, Armine.
You have a good night Man.
Good night to you too, Bless your brother.
Oh that's a really good conversation. I thank thank you again, Thank you again, Arman for taking time out of what I'm sure is a really fucking stressful period of time for you to get on here and share your story with us for an hour.
That was I I was.
I really enjoyed getting to talk to you and hear your perspective on things. I was just thinking about how five and a half years ago I was taking phone calls about Diarryie Aing and the Lazy River and now we're into geopolitics and gotten good for it, glad for it, glad for it.
No, that was.
That was really powerful. I have you got it? I need a second. I need a second after that.
Hmm.
Yeah. You know what I was thinking too, is like, dude, who's I think? I was saying, It's like that that guy Arman that we just talked to, who had like this powerful story and this great character and this all this stuff, like you know, he was working at Subway, and uh, I was thinking, I'm like, dude, I think about this now, like if I'm at subway or whatever, I'll just be like looking at the like whoever's behind the count I'll be like, what's what's what would my
hour long conversation with this person be? You know, we're we have this weird crossing where I buy a sandwich from them? What what would an hour long conversation with them be? Like? You know, you just know, you never know. Do I have anything else to say?
I don't know.
If I do, I think we'll call it there. Thank you guys for listening to this. Uh yeah, yeah, I don't know. I've been getting I don't know, I've been thinking about that. We don't we don't usually talk about like uh intense geopolitical things or you know, domestic political things. I think about them a lot. I like talking I like talking about the with my friends and family. I will I don't. I I think in the certain in certain situations, I'm you know, I like talking about them
on the podcast. But uh yeah, I appreciate Arman for uh sharing his story with us, and I'm sending blessings to him and his family and Iran. Maybe I'll go there one day. I was I made that video in Iraq and uh, the whole you know, the whole thing. I think and and by the way, this is not me throwing shade to anyone because I'm I'm like this. I was like this before I actually went there. But I was like Americans, I think just have a thing where like all they just view all countries in the
Middle East as the same. Like I there was a guy, so I passed by a guy at this office that I make my videos out of, and he was like, yo, lil, I liked your Afghanistan video, and it was like, at my gut, my gut instinct was like, it's Iraq, not Afghanistan. And then I was like, you know, a year ago, I would also, I think not have enough information where I knew the difference, you know, because you start out six years old, you don't know what a country is.
Then you find out what your own country is, then you find out what Minnesota is, and then at a certain point you have to manually move the needle on your own ignorance. Ah. But yeah, yeah, I'd like to go to your on someday. I think that that would be it'd be interesting. I mean, I every every every time I go to a place, I'm always feeling like I'm meeting lots of lovely people and learning more about the things that we have in common. Very it's nice, Okay,
I think I said. I think I'm ready to stop talking. Thank you guys for listening to the Therapy Gicle podcast. Let me know in the comments what you think about this one. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on this conversation. Get bless see you again soon goes on the line.
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