Yo, what's up? How's it going?
Yo? What's up? It's going good?
What's your name?
Oh?
Fuck? I didn't think of that.
That's okay, I'm gonna call you, Uh Sam?
I like Sam? Sam is Sam is great?
Sam?
Okay?
What's up? Flow? Life is good? I texted you that I was eating quinoa salads and then it's delicious. Mm hmm. I was gonna crack open a kombucha and that's about. That's about what I've what I've got going on. How's the how's the night? Are you still?
Like?
Were you in Japan? Are you still in Japan?
Sam? What? Uh? What's up?
Sam?
What?
What?
Uh? Would you want to talk about today?
Uh?
Well?
I I mean, I mean there, let's see things I wanted to talk about. I I low key wish I was a girl. Mm hmm. There's that. Yeah, maybe that's what I want to talk about. I'll take that.
Mm hm.
So I'm a I mean, I mean, you know, it's the way my voice sounds is like I'm a boy, you know, and like I don't know, I've always always felt like kind of kind of different, kind of like I was never into sports and shit like that, and lately It's like I just moved to a I moved to a very like progressive town. I'm very young, and now that I'm around a bunch of people who are like, oh shit, you can be you can be different than what what you what the world told you you were
when you were born. And I'm kind of like, kind of fucked up about back because it's like, I don't really know what to think. It sounds like a lot of efforts, but yeah, I don't know.
No, definitely way more effort than being a guy. A lot more products you're gonna have.
You're gonna need a lot more.
Shelf space on your shower. For sure. You're gonna need to start using I don't know if you're I don't know if you've been using three and one shampoo, conditioner, body wash. But you're gonna have to uh uh, the three separate things.
I got curly hair, So yeah.
Okay, yeah, okay, all right, So you're already doing okay on the products front.
I'm doing all right on the products.
That's so okay. So where did you grow up?
I grew up in a small Midwest college town.
Mm hmm, So tell me this. So, okay, the thing of like, yet, you grow up in like a small town and you have this idea of the universe, and then you leave and then you meet these other people you have this ol experience, and you're like, whoa, what the fucking fucking the universe expands infinitely beyond whatever what I thought it was in my small town. You're like, and you said that your reaction to this was that it fucked you up, not that it like excited you.
Why why do you think this fucked you up as opposed to exciting you.
Oh, that's that's a good question. I mean, let me think. I mean, I guess right now, I feel fucked up about it because it's like there's a lot of things I want. They're new, they're like that are really easy to get and hard to get in the same way, Like, I don't know. It's like now, you know, if I wanted to fucking become a girl, I could and I
don't know. It's it sucks me up because it's like I feel it feels like there's a lot of people around me now who like really did know what they want and they got that, and it's like I don't know what I want?
Interesting, you know, Yeah, no, I feel when you're around a lot of like, uh, decisive people, you it can no, it totally fucks you up. You're like, oh, fuck, am I supposed to know exactly what I want to do? What are you indecisive about? Like whether or not you want to be a girl?
I guess so, I mean ideally, uh, in my opinion, the ideal world is one where gender doesn't exist. Like, I think it's totally unnecessary. I think it causes so much more harm than the good and like, you know, like but but I don't know. It's it's like a thing that for it's you know, literally binary literally forces you to decide mm hmm.
I mean you can do I mean, listen, this thing where where you're you've decided like, oh, I can exist outside of the realm of of of of what the universe and what society has set as being the thing. I'm very pro that. I'm very pro. I mean, I mean, I'm very pro that. Do you The problem is that you do, like yes, like in choosing that path, you do inevitably have to deal with like the inevitable cons
of doing that. Yeah, you know, so I feel you on that there are kind of inevitable cons of going against the grain, but they also provide you with pros. But the good I mean, the good thing for you is that you can I mean you can just you can do whatever you want, like if you want to, especially Like, Okay, so you're in this where where did you move? Two from the small town?
Uh we'll say, we'll say a gay West coast city. There's a couple and I stay there elder.
Yeah.
Yeah, So if you're in this gay West Coast city, Like, how old are you?
I'm fucking eighteen. I'm in high school.
Bro, oh you're eighteen?
Yeah?
Oh shit? Do you just move there for college?
Uh? Yeah I am. I'm probably gonna go to college here, and like yeah, okay, yeah, I just need to kind of get out of the Midwest.
What I mean, Shit, fucking perfect time, just uh if like but yeah, right, because like in your gut, if you're if this is something you want to try, and if it's because like if if in your gut this is something that you wanted to try, and like you kind of felt.
It the whole time, Like I mean, give it a give it a try. Right, You're in a new place, You're in a new environment. Yeah, yeah, I mean fuck fuck dog, like give it a try to see how you feel.
Yeah, actually, yeah, I guess it's like dealing with the like no matter where am I, even if it's like whatever, I just moved, it's like there's people who know me, and it's like I have to deal with like being vulnerable with people I don't want to like like like asking so much of people to like be like yo, totally change your perception of me.
You know. Well, so it's it's hard. It's hard, right because you can't really like it, guess, and forget about like the whatever, the stupid the politics around like being transgender or whatever. Just the general idea of like like figure out like this, just the general idea of like you really have very little control of other people's perception of you, you know what I mean?
Like supsetting?
Why why is that upsetting? It just is like a fact of reality that you have no control of other people's perceptions of you. Right, it's a factive reality. But I but if and if I think if you're going to take that fact, you don't necessarily have to take
that fact and look at it as inherently upsetting. But there's another fact that you've recently has But this other fact of reality has come into your life which is exciting, which is that like the the the idea of who you are and other people's perceptions of you doesn't have to be the way in which you like live your life, you know what I mean?
Yeah?
So, and that's and that's a that's a it's a bit of a terrifying But why well why am I saying it's terrifying. It's just a fact of reality. It can be another, it can be an exciting thing. Right, So if you want to look at these two facts, right, you can't decide other people's perception of you and just be like, I'm okay with that. And then also other people can't decide my perception of myself and that's great. Yeah, So do with those two things what you will, right?
And what within those two things can you do to make yourself feel just like proud and happy of the life that you're living.
Yeah, that's true. I guess I guess going forth would help be be deciding something, just doing anything about it could help mm hmm yeah yeah yeah.
I Well, so what what about mm hmmm mmmm? What do you what are you most? What are you most afraid of.
I'm most afraid of. I mean, I'm pretty afraid of people thinking I'm evil, people thinking you're people, people taking people seeing me. Uh. I mean, I guess it's kind of self to be like I'm afraid of however people seems. But it's like like whatever, I'm afraid that people don't see me how I feel me?
You know, Yeah, why are you afraid of people seeing that you're evil? Do you let me? Well? Do you do you think you're evil?
I think I kind of do, Like I kind of think I'm kind of evil, like because a lot of time I just I'm just like I should do whatever the hell I want, which is kind of evil. And it's like I don't know because because it like, okay, this is another thing, holy fucked side tangent. But I low key don't feel empathy that often, which is kind of fuck though. But it's like it's like, yeah, I
don't know, I don't know. It's like I'm trying to my my my values are like you know, whatever, be nice and shit, but it's like I don't feel it in my heart that much, which is kind of great today, But I don't know.
Yeah, interesting mm hmm I mean, if you want to subscribe to this, like okay, just to keep this like theory that this uh thread going right, if you want to subscribe to the idea that the universe is fairly chaotic and subjective, uh yeah, and you can be whatever you want and do what everyone and like whatever, like you kind of get to decide what's evil, right.
Mm hmm okay, mm hm, so you can you get.
To decide like you get you can, you can if and if you want to and I just meet. What I think is the most beneficial is to like look at yourself and go like, okay, how do I best like operate within my own like framework of of whatever.
You know.
I don't know if that means anything?
No, no, yeah, yeah, what words?
Yeah? So like I don't know, I don't know, just try your just try your best. I guess, yeah, I guess I kind of yeah, I don't know if this makes sense? Am I being crazy?
I think that makes sense? I think them all right, it's kind of like who gives a fuck? But yeah m hm m hmm.
Okay, was this helpful?
I think I think this is helpful.
Okay.
I think it's nice to just talk about it. Because it's like it's like, what the fuck I don't talk about this is like not this is veral Like there's like two there's like two people I've talked about about that. I don't know. I think it's helpful.
Yeah, it's easier. So it's it's easier said than done to not care about other people's perception of you, hun because that's I mean, are like we're like biologically wired to do that.
Yeah, no, I think about that all the time. It's like it's like it's like if you do something wrong, it's like people would fucking kill you, and it's like, yeah, that's how we that's how we would stay alive. That's that. Shit's fascinating.
Yes, it is true. Our animal brain it's okay. Yeah, our animal brains subscribe to the idea that we need to care what other people think about because us, because that's how we used to live. And like if you got out ousted from the tribe, you couldn't survive. But we live in uh a half animal half human world and the human evolved part of your brain is like,
oh shit, like I can receive the universe above. I've evolved is an organism to be able to perceive the universe beyond the rules of my biology, and I can cheat them and work with it. It's kind of fucking crazy if you think about.
It, it's crazy. It makes it sound pretty cool.
Yeah, so, yes, it's true. So you can use your higher human intellect to go above your biological need to have everyone's approval and then enter, you know, become an evolved being who just kind of lives in their own orbis.
Yeah.
Yeah, but then you know, be a girl if you so desire.
All right, Therapy Geto told me to tell me to be a girl.
It cool.
Yeah, just do do what you want. Dog, What were you gonna say?
All right, it'd be cool if we can. I'll just be lizards and like lick our eyes and ship.
That. Well. Well, this is this is like my whole thing. I made a whole video about this. But now being a humans good. It's uh, there's gifts, there's there's there's gift there's as with everything, it's a double edged sword, but uh, I'll take the gifts over the over the cons Sam. Yeah, is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go.
Go to a hardcore punk show? Go see go or just go see live music. There's a lot of really hot people and bad music to be seen.
I love bad music.
I do too, Thank you, sir, Thank you. Mile.
Hello, Hi, Hello, what's up? What's your name? My name is Drew, Drew, Drew Carrey. Yeah, Drew, you texted me and you said I've been calling around for lawyers about me being hacked because weird things have been happening and people have been recording my phone conversations.
Yeah, I know, right, I don't know.
I have no idea. I'm perplexed. I'm perplexed by Yes, are you airsta? I'm not a lawyer. I'm a I don't know what I am right.
It's still it's something i'd like to talk about.
Okay, great, Okay, cool. I'm perplexed. I don't I'm confused. I'm scared, please.
As am I so about? I don't know if you can see the text messages from like a couple of months ago, but yeah, about almost three years ago now, I've been uh like I was starting on my business being uh like consulting firm like life coaching, and uh called up I was cold calling, called up this one guy, and uh, well, we started arguing because he tried to sell to me when I was trying to I guess selp him.
Okay, stop here, hold on. So you're a life you're a life coach.
No, not anymore.
This is like three years ago, dude.
Okay, okay, okay, okay. So at the time, at the time, you're a life coach and you start cold calling people, how do okay, where do you find the people to cold call? So like, how do you find people who whose lives are going terribly so they need a life coach? Like where do you get these leads?
Uh?
Well, someone them I got from, uh, the coach that I hired. H And also like like friends, like like me calling around my friends uh and then giving Like there's a thing called three for free, so you help out three people or three to five people, ten people or whatever, and then you ask them for three referrals and then yeah, so that rabbit hole.
What kind of life coaching were you doing?
Uh? That was helping specifically my niche was just at the time, it was pretty much anyone. I didn't have a niche, but I was helping musicians like that were that were like stuck. Yeah, that were like oh man, I don't. Yeah, they were like they like musicians, they are really creative people, but like they don't know the business side of it. And I'm very familiar with business and selling because I was a nightclub promoter and a strip club promoter in Las Vegas for like ten years,
so like I knew how to like sell music. I worked with all of the I worked for every single nightclub and strip club in Las Vegas for over the course of like nine or ten years. So I thought I could bring something to the table and uh yeah, and then called up you know, some people, and then I got it into a heated argument old hola.
Hold on, Well, we're gonna trust me, We're gonna get there. But I have more questions about your life. You have an interesting life. Man. We're gonna get there, thank you, But I have I have more questions for you before we get into what's why your phone has been hacked? Okay, so you worked as a strip club promoter for ten years. We're gonna go through your entire life. I need to fill an hour of podcasts, and I feel like we
can do it with you. I'm gonna fill as much of the of the you like as soon as you said you said a few things in the past two minutes, so I was like, we've got at least forty five minutes of podcasts to do. Okay, I'm honored you. How did you get involved as a strip club promoter? And what does that even look like?
When I was I don't know, like sixteen years old or seventeen years old, I stumbled across the television show The Pickup Artist, and I was a loser, you know.
I was like, never had a girlfriend or anything. I mean, not many people have when they're like sixteen or seventeen years old, but I was pretty desperate, and I was like, right, somebled across I stumbled across the TV show and they're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you to learn how to pick up girls Ormano as a seventeen year old or yeah, I was sixteen when that show came out. I was like, oh my gosh, you can. And then I bought the books and then I went to a teen club when I was sixteen.
Wait you went to Wait you went to a teenage pickup artist club.
No, I mean it wasn't a pickup artist club. It's just a nightclub for sixteen year old.
Oh oh teen clubs? Yeah, oh you went to a teen cup?
Yeah?
Oh okay, yeah yeah, dude, yeah, that's funny. I no, no, I went to I dude, No, I went to shit like that when I was a kid. It's so like as an adult, so weird looking back on it, like a like an in Ocean City, Maryland, there was this place called H two. Oh have you heard of that place? Yeah?
No, I went to a place called Inferno and Pontiac when I was sixteen. Okay, I don't think it's around anymore.
Okay, so you're okay, So.
I was nervous wreck yeah yeah.
Okay, so you're sixteen you go to one of those like weird teenage nightclubs. You just read a bunch of pickup Artistry book? Yeah please got fat? Yeah sure, okay, we'll keep going.
And the Mystery Method. And when I turned twenty one, my friend was like, I want to move to Las Vegas. And I was like, oh my gosh, yes, that sounds like a great idea because I wanted at that time, I wanted to be pick up coach.
Interesting.
Yeah, And so at twenty one I moved to Las Vegas because I thought I could be a you know, pick up coach, hown my own craft pick up girls?
Were you doing? Were you doing like like when you were eighteen or seventeen or whatever? Were you coaching other high school kids at the teen clubs had to pick up girls?
No? No, I was. I was a nervous wreck. I only went that one time because I was like so much of a nervous wreck that I didn't go to another club until I was like eighteen.
Whow interesting. Okay, So you get into you get into all this stuff, and then at twenty one, you're like, I'm gonna go with my homemide to Vegas and become a pickup artist coach. Yeah, okay, and how did that? How did that work out?
Well? I ran the largest meetup group WHOA.
In the world for pick for a pickup artistry? Yeah, like you ran you the world, You ran the largest because I feel like, I mean that's a that's a bold claim, because I feel like those guys are like like the most famous what like the like the I feel like really like those guys, Like I don't I don't know any of their names, but I know that they exist and like people done videos of them and stuff. Like, so you ran the biggest what are you like a public figure of some kind?
I'm not. I was like working with the biggest people though, like it's kind of a it's kind of a thing to try and stay because everything is like underground. And the famous ones that I worked with, all of them, like they gave free talks at my meetups, all of them. So people from Real Social Dynamics. I've worked with Real Social Dynamics after about like five years.
What is Real Social.
Dynamics it, I don't think it's around anymore. But that was like the biggest pickup artist company and I worked with I met a guy named rsd Luke Luke Rogue and anyone that's I guess listening would know Owen Cook aka Tyler Durden from the book The Game.
Tyler. I thought Tyler Durden was the fight club guy.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the that was his like stage name.
Owen Cook.
Yeah.
Okay, I have more. I have so many more questions. I'm so glad that we this is we're talking about. Okay.
So, and then there's like Julian Blanc who was famous for he really blew up on social media. I forgot what year it was.
But is he the guy that wears like that? I know there's one of these guys that wears like a funny hat.
Yeah, that was a mystery mister. That's the stage aim. His real name is Eric von Markovic and so like.
Yeah, even guy like Pete Cables.
Okay, so a guy like that, right, Like does he actually get a lot of girls? Like he's just like a guy in a.
Hat mystery Now? I know, like maybe back in the day, like when he wrote the book and he had the TV show, Yeah, probably, But I mean.
Like.
The more I dove into it, the more I realized that like a lot of them, a lot of like not just mystery but like most of the dating coaches and stuff, they're just like kind of just milking the uh right, you know, the fame right, which I mean like fame, fame can get you laid. But they were just like leaning heavy on that and they're just like you know, they got like wife and kids and stuff. You know, they're just like, yeah, I'll just show you how which is I guess like that's the end goal.
But they kind of like lost that that edge, you know that they lost the isn't.
The isn't the goal isn't the goal is the Okay now I actually okay, I actually want to talk to you about, like again, pick up artistry in general, right is it? Like I don't know, I feel like all is there? Is there really anything? Is really anything?
Too?
Like all you really have to do, I think is like be physically attractive and like confident, Like what is with all the what is like? What is the like like like I don't really believe in like this whole thing of like there's some magic like game that I mean learn or well yeah, sure, but I think but like I don't like the idea that like there's a magical spell that you can say or like mind manipulation tactics or whatever. Seems like yeah, you're correct wild to me.
There's charisma, right, and then there's you got to think of logistics, Like if you want to pick up a girl tonight, well you gotta like plan ahead, right, I mean you could do like last moment thing, but legit thin really kind of fuck.
You're like you're coaching guys, and like you have to clean your room before you bring a curl.
Yeah, yeah, like clean the pubes around your toilet bowl, you know, because.
Are you really, are you, sir? Is that really what like like find like a good parking spot. Is that the kind of shit you're like talking to people?
Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean if you if you're pulling a girl from the club right and she's got heels on, she might be a quitter after like ten minutes of walking in those heels like hes off, you know. But if you're if you're parked like thirty minutes away, I mean, she might just be like nah, I think I'll just get an uber, you know, like you gotta think of things like that, you.
Know what, Actually, I actually, you know what for like all for the guff that I pick up artistry gets that's actually rather rather consider it, I would say, of a logistical element to consider. You know, if a girl's wearing heels, you don't want her to have to walk too far. That's actually there's something kind of sweet about that. I actually.
And so if you're going around talking to a bunch of girls in the nightclub, and or if you're going around and talking, you know, just having general conversations, there's like a couple of questions you can ask, see, hey, is this like a good candidate for a one night stand, or am I gonna have to get her number for like another time. So if she's saying, you know, because I lived in Las Vegas, Oh, her plane leaves in like a couple of hours, maybe that she's not you know,
she doesn't want the quickie right now. You know, like maybe go talk to someone else and save some time, or you know, grab her phone number, grab her Instagram. I would always go for like Instagram or Snapchat because then you can kind of keep them in the back burner if they look at your stories and they get li fomo, and then they can hitch you up when they come back.
Does this pursuit? Do you have a Do you have a girlfriend?
Yeah? Now I do. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean after a while, does it don't you get a little tired?
Yeah? I kind of got sick of going in nightclibs. I left it. I guess pick up art stuff like back in like twenty twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen.
Sure, I mean it makes sense that when you're younger, but as you get older, it's like, yeah, you know this is.
I'm thirty four now. Yeah, I mean like yeah, I mean I don't mind talking about this kind of stuff about like pick up artistry and stuff, because it's like, yeah, I mean I got pretty pretty good at it. You know, it's like very once you get like you kind of get a system down going to the nightclib so often or pulling from say like Tender or any dating app.
Okay, so you're doing these meetups. What like what kind of guys are going on the meetups? What's the demographic?
I would say eighty percent are either in it or autistic?
Interesting? Yeah, interesting.
Anytime like I had a large group, I would say, how many of you are in it? Because they're like very logical thinking people. And right, those are the people that in it that usually are either in college or they just they're pretty well established in you got money.
Like I mean it. I mean no, it does make sense that a very logical thinking person would be like, oh, I want to find I want to have sex. Let me take a course on it and find this logistical formula to like do that.
Yeah. Yeah, and they get a little too logical and you gotta kind of help them out of that.
Have you have you have you encountered a lot of like autistic or like people who have like lower social skills. Have you have you seen a lot of guys like that transform into like, you know, confident people.
Yeah, some of them kind of have to like, uh, you know, you teach body language so that way it can kind of help them reach social cues. Like I would recommend the book like the Definitive Book of Body Language.
You know, it's interesting. I've I actually have always you'd
be an interesting person to talking about this. I have always wondered to myself if like social skills are a thing that can be taught, or if like, because sometimes I do believe that like social skills and like charisma and whatnot are kind of a thing of like you either have it or you don't, you know, like like like I meet like I just meet people all the time and who just like have the sauce, you know, like they just are able to like get people to
like them very easily, like that like everything they say makes sense, you know, they just like, yeah, you know how to do it.
I mean social is like being social is just like a practice. You know, if someone says something e to you, if someone like you know, you're at the bar talking to like a girl and some showed walks up and starts like you know, what are those as he points out your shoes. You know, it's just like how do you combat that? At the first time, you know, you might be like, uh, You're like I don't know what
to say. But second time around, when someone comes up and they're like, you know, trying to take your girl away that you're that you've just been talking to for like twenty minutes, so she's willing to walk away at any moment, you know, you can be like, hey, nice shirt, dude, does it coming, straight guy or whatever? You know, like just like just you know, and in front of them.
Is in one of the books Nice shirt, Yeah, and straight Guy is one of.
The books that's that was one of my lines that I would just like.
It.
It gets people took because you can't get out of that, you know. But I learned if you just like in front of them like kind of yeah. If if you're just like kind of like step in front of them just like a little bit and just continue talking, most guys just kind of like turn around there and they just give up real quick.
Nice shirt does it come? And straight up? I'm gonna use that.
Okay, go ahead, man, I hung out my jersey.
So you were running these pickup artists circles, and then how did that come into Like Okay, so you've been like a like a coach for a while and this kind of led to you being being like a life coach of some kind.
Yeah, the community kind of just like blew up. Yeah, no one was doing it anymore because back in twenty i'd say twenty nineteen or so twenty eighteen, there was like a kind of like social media was doing like this purge where they were like deleting a bunch of social media accounts of like all of the famous pickup artists. They're like deleting their like YouTube channels and Facebook accounts
and stuff like that. Mostly because I believe because Julian Blanc, he was like there was a picture of him that went viral of him choking a girl, and then he got like I guess I think he got banned from like thirty different countries for that because he was an Australian sense when he did that, yeah, sense, But I mean in his defense, like.
Okay, let's get let's let's let's let's get back to your life. Let's get back to your life, right, But.
I mean, like I just believe his story, and you know, because like it's not like he was going around strangling women. It was just he just did something that I was just like stupid, you know. He just kind of like, let's let's let's get back, let's apologize and stuff.
Okay, so anyway you okay, okay, who'd you call?
The pickup artist community kind of like fell apart, and then COVID happened. I moved back to Michigan, where I'm originally from, and then I was like, I don't want to be a pick up coach anymore because it's actually ironically kind of hard to be dating when you're a pick up coach, because every girl that you date is going to be like, uh, They're always going to be like questioning, like you know him, yeah, oh wait.
What Like they're going to be questioned like if you're like manipulating them in some way.
Yeah, like well not manipulating them, like well, every like if you get in an argument, every girl is going to be like, well, why don't you go pick up some other girl then you don't need me type of stuff, or they would be or uh, they would just like insecure thinking that like I've never cheated on anyone, but it would always be a thing if I'm out with a student that like, oh, you're out teaching other guys how to pick up women, so you have to go pick up women. So it's just like, no, that's not
how it works. I'm just it is there with them.
It is an unquestionably tough sell to anyone who does not like you know, there is a certain kind of a certain kind of kind of person has to be, you know, on board, and it's definitely not going to be every kind of person.
So I was mostly looming on the whole, like the nightclub in strip club promoting, like just selling going to the club was a better profession than being a pickup coach.
Okay, so uh you switched from doing this pickup coaching to coaching musicians who were having trouble with like their confidence the business side of things. Yeah okay, yeah, and then how did your I'm ready to talk about how your phone got hacked. I'm very curious.
Yeah, I'm very eager to talk about it. I've been trying to get hold of you for months now, like on and off.
Your phone has been hacked. It's been hard.
Yeah, well yeah, right, you're telling me so, uh I got yeah, So I was just you know, doing my you know three for free you know business plan, calling around and I had like a list of people and talk to this one individual. I don't know what kind of accent he had, but like I still remember his voice because I hear it almost every day. It's so true.
It's it's so traumatic to me that since I had this conversation with this guy, it echoes in my head like every day, and it's just like, uh, we start talking and he's like, well, if I'm going to hire you, I need to know who I need to know you know about you. So I started telling him about me, about how was a nightclub promoter as promoting strip clips. I worked at you know, haksan Omnia, Access One, Oak Bank, Yeah, Hustlers Club, you know all those places. I'm like, but
I'm not one to really brag. It's just just look on my social media and then you'll just see for yourself. Right, That's just I'm about that life, okay. And and then we got into we ended up getting into an argument about religion and because I'm an atheist, and apparently that struck a chord with him because he was I think he was a judeo Christian or or some sort of Christian right, And he started like she was, I don't
like to argue about religion. I just like to pretty much stand my ground, like I'm people look down at atheists all the time.
Okay, how how how did your phone get hacked? Right?
So, like we started arguing about like religion, and then you know, at the end of the conversation, he said, I, by the way, I've been recording all like he tried to sell me on this program to because I was trying to sell to him. He's trying to sell to me. The program is to go into other people's phones. All you need is their phone number and what type of phone that they have. So if they an Android, an
Android or an Apple, it doesn't matter. As long as they have their phone number and what type of phone that they have, you can just go into their phone and just go into all their accounts, look at whatever. You don't want that, I'm like, no, yeah, it's possible. And I was like, I don't want that. I respect people's privacy.
Wait, hold on, hold on, I'm so okay. First of all, first of all, there's no way that that's a real thing.
Yeah, it's Second of a well known at this point. There's it's called Pegasus. I don't know if that's the exact program he was trying to sell to me, but there's there's one out there that's called Pegasus.
Pegasus and they can go into anyone's phone just using their phone number, of phone or not. Here we go. Oh holy shit. Pegasus is spyware developed by the Israeli cyber arms company NSO Group. What the fuck? Oh this is real.
Yeah, So I didn't want that stuff because I was like, it's only a matter of time if I would not only do I respect people's privacy, but I it would only be a matter of time before I get caught with it. You know, even if I did accept that, and not that I even had the money at the time to like buy that from him.
This is crazy. Oh fuck, so this guy fucking tried. Wait, so this guy tried to sell you this pegasust crazy phone.
I believe that the person even has it.
And then he pegasists you.
Yeah, he said he was going to keep me in the in his circle because he said when he's bored, he likes to just watch other people. And he told me that he likes to watch you know, politicians poop on the toilet when they accidentally pull up their camera app.
Yeah, what the fuck?
And he said that he could just listen in to the insider trading that they do, and he said, I could make so much more money. And I'm like, I don't know, dude, I'm good. I don't sounds like a superpower that I don't want.
How did you? How did you? How did you find this guy?
Uh?
So I was talking to because like I was, I hired like my own coach for myself, uh Tony Robbins company. Uh and like they just Tony Robbins's coach, like uh, like they had their own coaching program that I went through and she gave me like a list of names to call.
Well this kind of sounds like a pyramid scheme, but also before that, life coaching itself.
Yeah I don't. Yeah, I believe that life coaching itself can sometimes be a pyramid scam.
Yeah, so I got out of that. Yeah what exactly what were you trying to get a coach for?
Just like for because I was used to marketing nightclubs and strip clubs.
I wanted to, Oh you needed you needed to coach for myself? You needed to. Oh okay, see you. No, no, it's funny. I have actually I had no do. I have seen so many like Facebook ads for this. They are hilarious. That's like, oh, I.
Can get to that too, the whole Actually, you got to make twenty thousand a month type of people to get rid.
Of, like the Facebook ads that are like hire a coach to learn how to get people to hire a coach.
Yeah. So I'm actually in the middle of editing a documentary called Coaches or Quacks that targets that exact thing.
I mean, here's the thing, honestly what it's about. Yeah, you kinda. I mean.
I am out of coach anymore. Like, I actually refunded everybody that paid me money. I refunded everybody because I realized how much of a scam that let that life coaching and marketing coaches and business coaches are. I refunded everybody, and I started doing a documentary on it.
Well you coach everybody? Wait, okay, hello, yeah you so you refunded everybody. I mean you've you refunded everybody that you and.
I started doing it for free.
Okay, so you refunded everybody that you were like a dating coach for or like any kind of coach.
No, because like dating coaching is, like you know, it's not like what you said, like a pyramid scam.
Like for.
It's not like you pay a coach. Make it coaching coaches to coach coaches to coach coaches.
Right, okay you.
Yes, that's what marketing coaches and business coaches is. And I was like, oh when I realized that, nah, I'm I'm not about that. So I refunded everybody, and then I made a documentary where I started filming a documentary and I got really deep into like, you know, how unqualified that of what life coaches are. And I got life coaches at you know, people that work at Tony Robbinson's company trying to trying to sell to me using unsubstantiated income claims, which is itself illegal by the FTC.
And Tony Robbins can get sued once his documentary drops, and not not just him, but other people too, because there's life coaches out there that they'll just tell you anything like oh, I spent over a million dollars on my own coaching, and now I'm going to show you how to do it, and you'll be rich just like me. And then it's like it's the never ending cycle. I'll
give you an example. I was talking to this one guy who didn't realize that he was a victim, and he spent twelve thousand dollars on coaching, and I broke the news to him that the person that he bought from was scamming him. And he's like he was trying, and he broke down and he said, I'm going to look into this. And he was in denial, right, And I said.
But he's, OK, can I can? I can?
I see you?
Can?
I say, you're saying, you're saying that the guy that he spent twelve thousand dollars on is scamming him. But yeah, but the question is right, but like what's a scam?
Right?
Because if you because there's the if stiff because if a coach, if a guy, if you go on if you're on Facebook, this is what I was going to say originally. If you're on Facebook, right and you see an ad and someone says, I'm going to coach you how to get people. I'm going to coach you how to coach people to get them to coach people, and so and so and then you pay someone and then you pay someone two thousand dollars or whatever it is to to teach you how to do it, and then
they do it. But that's all. But yes, it's a pyramid scheme. But like, were you really scammed or did you just but I mean, what's the scam here?
Right?
Like? Like that's the like you bought you you It's like if somebody, if somebody says to you, hey, I'll sell you this this uh piece of dirt for three thousand dollars and then you buy it. Were you were you scammed or did you just like spend money stupidly?
Right? A great question. It's it comes down to straight up just like they say, you know, I'm going to show you how to make forty thousand dollars, that itself, according to the FTC, is an unsubstantiated income claim.
You cannot sure that makes sense? That makes sense.
Yeah, you cannot say this product will help you lose ten pounds. You cannot say this product will you know, it's unsubstantiated, it can't be proven. You can't guarantee results, even if they say I guarantee it or you get your money back. That's just trying for themselves to get a cop out, but that don't work with the FDC, and it won't work legally, and most of those people
they go broke and they can't pay you back. So specifically, the scams that I was looking into was you go on in an interview with people.
Like uh.
For them to join their program, and then they show you their Stripe dashboard. So Stripe is a process of payment processing, and it'll say like how much money they made in the month, right, And then there's this one person the name was Brandon Forbes, showed two hundred and seven thousand dollars a month that he was making. And then that's the point where you're like, oh, I could learn from this guy, right, and it's only going to cost like two to five thousand dollars? Are you kidding me?
Of course you want if you see that stripe dashboard, you see two hundred and seven thousand dollars.
Right now, I see, I see I see your I see your I see your argument that it's like, yeah, if you're if you're backing up your ship with unsubstantiated claims, then it is like, yes.
You go to you go to. What they won't show you is the individual transactions. So they just show you the like the graph that spikes up of how much money they made. But if you look at their individual like their individual transactions, most of them are denied or they're failed, and that counts towards their gross income for the months. M hm. And but that's not how much they make.
Okay. So a guy, okay, so hold okay, so you had a scammy. Okay, so you had a scammy. I'm going to coach you to coach other coaches person and and then that person somehow connected you to this random guy who you called trying to get him to sign up for you being a coach. And then that person was trying to get you to buy this Israeli spyware to hack another people's phones, and then you said no,
and then he used the spyware against you. And now you put it that way, it is that that's the story, correct.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the story.
Okay, so what so what? But so so is he like he's listened to this right now, he's getting he's he's on the Patreon, he's getting the podcast early.
Yeah, sure, so h uh, it's at first I didn't notice anything. I called his bluff and he said, I'm gonna put you in the loop. I'm gonna like he said that he has his own like group of people that he likes to just check in on every once in a while. Okay, And he said, I recorded this conversation, and I want you to do what I say or else I'm gonna take your voice and splice it up in the little pit. The bits and pieces make you
sound like a very terrible person. And I can just send a little audio clips to random people whatever.
I mean, people can do that with your voice. I mean, anyone listening to this can do that with AI.
Yeah.
Yeah, And not that they should.
Not that they should please don't do that.
I mean, shit, they could do that. There's enough.
But if we do, I didn't say it.
I mean I've recorded five hundred I mean I've recorded five hundred plus hours of podcasts. I've said enough words in this podcast to give people like, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of AI generated crap you could do with the library of my podcast. I mean, whatever, if it should be, but anyway, okay, So he says that.
Yeah, and uh, and then then I started noticing more glitches on my phone, and I noticed my specifically, I noticed my nudes were deleted on my phone. I guess he didn't like what you were saying. But like even my locked folder in my phone it was gone, you know, the one that you need to password for, right that
like all all Android phones have. And yeah, and I it was maybe about a year later I started noticing that, like my I had a Google Phone of Google Pixel at the time, and it was just like like really going crazy, man, I don't know. It was just like my whole phone was just like flickering, like pretty much like a brand new phone. It was only like a year old. I never dropped. I never dropped it or anything.
And just like my friend was like, oh, switching an iPhone, so like I have my whole life on like my phone all of the pictures from like when smartphones just first came out basically, so I uploaded them to my Google drive. I switched to an Apple and still, like my I had the I phoned fifteen pro Max at the time, and that was going crazy too. It was like it was just like turn on and turn off.
And so this guy was hardcore. This guy was hardcore pegasustic. Yeah, did he did he So did he come back to you with any like weird like jigsaw messages of like you need to do this or else I'll delete more.
A bunch of text message you sent out to my friends whoa off of my phone number. And then I've even had friends contact me and I and I text them, uh And I was like, yo, would you say that for and he was and he was like, I I literally I never said that. I did not say that.
Damn.
So this guy's really fucking me.
Yeah, it's it's like ruining relationships. I lost my girlfriend at the time because like she just couldn't deal with the drama.
She could deal with the drama of you in my life.
Yeah, of just like in my business was just like which is what the ship? Not because the like coaching thing, but because like it was just every day of just like changing emails. I changed my phone number like three times. I changed phones like I got a new phone, like kept on returning them while like doing it in a specific way where I can't be hacked. I called a Verizon, I changed my modem and my router. My I got like three different laptops. I think it's like four different laptops.
And not pone was working.
It was just like.
My like my laptop screen was like flickering, and then like I would have windows that would pull up and close out. And then when I talked to the people at Microcenter, which is kind of like a best buy in the Midwest, they were like, oh, you have some spyware on your on your laptop. I'm like, wait, what, Like yeah, someone is like remotely sounds like someone's remotely hacking you. I never told them anything of what I of what I just told you. They were just saying
that those are the symptoms. So my podcast Microphone was cutting on, like how did this person like listening to.
How did this person get the spyware on your thing?
Well, he had my phone number, and he knew what kind of phone I had. I don't. I don't know.
Can I like, now I'm working, is he gonna is he gonna hack my Gecko phone?
I mean, I don't. I don't know, because it only just not as sporadic. Okay, hey the contagious.
Now now I have Now I now there's there's documented evidence on this podcast that I.
Well, don't come out. Don't don't sue me over this, because I don't have any money.
Dude, why have you been Okay? We sort of the lawyer has been saying.
So in a second, so like it was like last uh last year. On two different occasions, I was talking to my friend. This is how I knew that he was listening to my like phone conversation. I was talking to my friend just casually because I'm a truck driver now and we were both hands free, Like he was talking on his through his truck, and I was I have a headset that when I'm driving, I can talk
to people. And in the middle of his sentence, we both heard this phone call is being recorded and I and he was like, wait, what are you recording me? I'm like no, and I'm like, oh my gosh, he's still listening to me. He's still bugging me.
What.
I really hope you're telling me the truth and you're not, just like.
I wish man, no man. I even on my Instagram from like a couple of years ago, I have a picture of my phone from my camera app, Like I had my camera app. I was actually filming my documentary and I was setting up my tripod and my phone took a picture of took a picture of me if you want, I can even send you to you don't I don't, Actually, I don't want to.
I want to have as little amount of technological interaction with you as humanly possible.
Actually, So, when I was putting in my because I use my phone as a mirror sometimes in my truck, I was putting in my contacts the day before Thanksgiving last year, I was taking my contacts out, and my phone took a picture of me. And I have all those settings turned off where it's like if you smile or if you say smile, or if you have your hand. I have all those settings turned off because I'm so, like, so paranoid at this point. My phone took a picture of me and caught me off guard. And then I'm
just like staring at my camera, not making it. I'm not saying anything or doing anything. I'm just staring at my my my phone, and it just takes another picture of me, a second photo right after another.
So like, so, what did the lawyers, What did the lawyers say? Do they say anything?
Yeah, so it said.
That they said because I talked to net year next year said to talk to the FBI. Lawyers said, to talk to the FBI. And they can scrape my phone see my metadata and then maybe I can use that to do something, either to go after Google or find out who is doing this to me?
And so do you contact the FBI?
Not yet, I'm going to do that in a couple of days.
How did this guy get Because I'm on the road. This is crazy. I'm like on the Wikipedia page of this shit. This is crazy. This so this shit exists, you can just like, yet's get how did this guy get this? It seems like it's like a government technology.
I don't know if he's specifically Pegasus or maybe the guy worked at Google for all I know, or like Verizon, because like if if you have a problem with your phone, because I've looked into this for the last couple of for I guess the last year or so, like, if you have a problem with your phone, you can call up like AT and T or Verizon or whatever and
they can just remotely go into your phone. So like someone rogue at Breisen or AT and T could possibly do that, you know, and all you'd have to do is just send them a link and then they click on the like blue text and then they're in your phone.
Whoa damn do you're making I'm looking through this Wikipedia page. I' about to put on my fucking timfoil hat. This is this is uh yeah, you know what, man, I gotta I just I just miss. I just miss so deeply, like what life was like before I knew anything, No, just before he knew about anything, you know, like when I was just a Remember being a kid. I remember like being outside, you know, used a kid. You're riding a bike. You're not thinking about fucking governments using high
powered spyware to you know, you don't care. You don't even care about like the greater whatever. You just want to look at.
Like the doomsday news that's going on every day.
Listen, man, I hope the FBI helped so you get your get your nudes back?
Yeah, I mean, but like here's another thing, man, Do I really want the FED going through my phone?
Too?
You know, I don't have anything to hide, But I mean do I need them to be like, oh well look at this guy? All right? Yeah, well we'll just delete this stuff and then whatever, you know, let.
The fan I don't I mean, like I don't know if if you I mean, well, that's for you to decide. You're like do I want this random weird guy looking through my phone or or the FEDS. You know, you don't want to either to look at your phone. Yeah, it's kind of like it's kind of like saying like, actually, I don't know if it's like this at all, but go ahead. It's like, would I rather get like, you know, like have a stranger put their hand up my ass, or like a TSA agent. You know, that's a good
way to say neither. Neither is like enjoyable, but I'd rather it be the person who.
Is trained to do so.
Yeah, trains is is part of an institution that I guess, Yeah, part of an institution that I guess we have some form of trust in still, but I won't discuss that because this is really that kind of you know, it's not really that kind of podcast. I'm not really in a Gecko Wars kind of a kind of a thing.
I get it.
What what's your name again, man, Drew? Drew? It's been interesting talking to you, Drew. I appreciate, uh you telling me about all this stuff, although it's gonna be harder to sleep at night.
How do you think I feel for the last yeah, two years?
And hey, when you're.
Talking to when I'm talking to my best friend about just you know whatever, and then you hear this phone call is being recorded.
I was I really it would maybe laugh so hard I heard that right now?
Oh maybe maybe's I'm yeah.
Movies on break? Hey, Hey, you know what, Okay, before we go, listen, I'm gonna speak directly to the person who is hacking. I mean, this is a public conversation, so whatever, but uh, you know, I'm gonna speak directly the person who's hacking Drew's phone. And I'm gonna say this. I think using government spy where on someone's phone is mean, and it's bullying them, and it's and it's mean. He shouldn't do it. It's my official stance.
Get them gat.
Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?
Yeah, I think nothing in life has any meaning except for the meaning that you give it.
Swag out, Thank you, Drew, Thank you. Never goes on the line taking your phone calls every night. Never Repink goes to his eye. He's teaching you cloud your life, but he's not ready. An expert