Hello, Yeah, you hear me, GK.
Yeah, what's your name?
Man?
Uh call me Steve, Steve, Steve. I'm cool with Steve today too. I think it's a good name. Can I can I tell the people what it is that you texted me? Is that all right?
Yeah? That's cool. Now we'll give a good start off.
You said, Hey, Gek, I want to chat with you about growing up in ultra orthodox Judaism and now I have landed somewhere in between an absurdist and a nihilist. I left the fold years ago, managed to make a life for myself on the other side. I'll be scary. I wanted to hit you up about this because well, a few things is uh, you know, I grew up in somewhere let's call it reform Judaism, but I was
around a lot of like Orthodox Judaism. And then also now i'm you know, living in New York, I'm around I see a lot of Orthodox Judaism, and I find it. I find it fascinating because it, yeah, it's always like it seems to be like intentionally isolated from like the rest of the world. So I'm curious, like how your experience growing up in that has been.
Yeah, so I actually did grow up in New York City. I grew up in a small six I'm not going to be specific there, but yeah, I grew up Altra orthodox Kee nicola Asidic if you want, raised in the hole full. My whole life went through the system. They call it Yeshiva. It's like their type of school system. Yeah, I got my rabinical ordination once I was done the Yeshiva system, then I guess more to answer your question,
it is very closed off, like it pretty insulated. But the SEC I grew up in is has more outreach, so like there's stopmer in like Williamsburg. Like the guys were the furry hats. They're the ones who are like cut off the outside wall. They can't have cell phone. They have like they kind of accident internet. They they are very strict. The one I was involved in is a little bit more relaxed, so I had a little
bit more of like experiencing outside world. So I was able to collect you to get people on the other side even while I was in the SEC. M hm.
So you weren't necessarily a Hasidic, uh.
They call it acidic, but like if you asked like a real like Hasidic sect. If they consider that asidic, they'll say, no, it's going to real people or something like that. So it's debatable.
But yeah, was it like serious enough that when you left your family was unsupportive to the degree with I stopped talking to you?
Uh? Ish uh. There's other reasons why. So I still talk to my family, like I spent Thanksgiving with them. Most of them are still religious. I don't really talk to my parents that much, and then I much to say to them, it's just unfortunate. But you know, like ex communicayy, they every time they talk to me, they try to bring me back, like that's the thing, Like they think I'm a lost person and I just try to like guide me back to the right path. And I just got sick of it, and I'm like, this
is not I'm not living a lifestyle. So it just got really frustrating. I just gave up on that and I just started, you know, just keeping myself more in touch with my siblings. And then yeah, once in a while, I see my parents maybe once or twice a year. Uh.
Oh do you see your parents once I see year?
Yeah, I don't go to visit them like I'll go in for like Honaker or Thanksgiving or something, and they'll be there, and I'll try to like avoid my dad because I don't want to talk to him to say me or whatever. But yeah, it's very anxious for me when I do that, Like I still like mentally prepare myself before and after that happens. Like, it's just a lot for me.
What what's the deal with your Uh, you had a brother or sister.
I got a bunch of siblings. Most of them are married with kids, so I have a lot of nieces and nephews. I would say most of them are like more modern orphodox, so they're not like old Shore Orthodox. They're kind of like chill about it. So I can more communicate with them than it's like my parents are still stuck in the same you know, ideas they brought us up with. Hm hmm.
Are you are you married? Do you have kids?
No? I am not married. I don't have kids, are you?
The only one of the clients say again.
Not that I know, I could have kids?
Yeah, okay, all right, all right, you might have a what is it called, I guess a bastard child?
Yeah, is the Yiddish word momser mom's area.
Mom A, I've heard that word before.
Yeah, yeah, it's been out there.
Uh do you speak Yiddish?
I do not fluently. Uh. So basically like growing up in like Yeshiva, they want to like teach you Yiddish. They would expect that you already spoke it at home so you understand it. So then they would like teach you in school you like read the Bible and Hebrew and then you yell out to get this translation over and over. It was like cult like you like you don't even know what you're saying. But yeah, I did speak Yiddish like growing up. I can understand it, like
even German, like I could understand like high German. It's kind of weird. But when I try to talk German, like the vocablary and grammars like totally off.
But yeah, did you do you also do like regular Jews stuff like, uh, there's I'm for for those who are not Jewish, there's a well, there's there's Jewish summer camp, although I guess religious summer camp is a general thing. And then for me, there was this thing called bb YO, which was like a youth Jewish youth organization type of thing. Uh, did you do any of that kind of stuff.
No, we wouldn't like really mingle with like the other Jewish organizations. Like we had our own like summer camps, like all Boys summer camps, and those are like pretty fucked up places.
Interesting if you ask me.
Yeah, a lot of shit went down there, and then like that's where they say they don't vet their staff very well, and there are incidents where these like pedophiles and ship like oh Jesus roaming free over there. It's it's horrible. Yeah, I've had experiences there a lot of people I know how it's yeah, was it? What?
Did you have any? Do you have any? Do you have any positive experiences there?
Not that I know? No, I hated it.
M m hmm.
It's so it's so interesting how like a different the experience of like Orthodox Judaism and Reform Judaism is because we're both Jews, but it's like it's a different fucking world by like a billion degrees.
Oh yeah, yeah. A lot of my friends now are like just like reform or non Jews or whatever, and they don't like I've been out of it so long, Like they don't believe me if I tell them like I grew up like a ultra orthodox or Ascidic in some small sect in New York City and yeah, and they're like, oh, it's crazy. I've heard about it, and like, I you know whatever, but like you don't seem like you're from there.
Yeah, what's your life like?
Now? Are you?
Do you have any of it in you? Or are you completely atheist? Agnostic?
Yeah, magnostic nihilists. I would mostly categorize myself as an absurdist, you know, like Albercamo, the myth of Sistypus. Yeah, so that really Like I went through some rough times and then I was like a philosophy major in my undergrad and I was like reading that shit and I'm like, first had an exidential crisis, and I was like, what the fuck does everything mean? Like everything to do? So I'm not going to heaven when I die or whatever and all the all the things I've done that doesn't
count up. Maybe I'm not gonna go to heaven. But like I got after a couple of years of therapy whatever, and I calmed down about it and I started like looking into like I'm served as I'm like, hey, this shit's awesome, Like I can live by this.
Yeah, that is a crazy exce. Okay, So when how old were you when you realized that there was no heaven?
I would say my mid twenties, somewhere in college when I was like just studying philosophy and like my whole world just came crashing down. I was literally walking around like a dark cloud loving over my head. I was super depressed. Not I was not in a good place for years. But thank god I can ount on the either side, I want to think, just thankfully, Well I do.
I believe, I.
Don't.
I've talked about this a bunch of fucking times, but like, uh, I don't know. I look at God as just like uh an allegory to mean that which is uh been beyond you or unknown to you.
Yeah, you know, like God?
Yeah, yeah, like if I, if I pray, like if I because here's the thing, like I'm listen like tomorrow or that today, a lot of people are gonna have random brain aneurysms and die and there's no real reason why it's gonna happen to them and not me, uh or or it might happen to me.
I don't know.
But when I guess when I'm praying to God, I'm I don't know. I guess it's just hope. It's just just like I hope that that I hope that these things that are out of my control. I don't think the prayers like go anywhere, but I guess it feels nice or something, or like when you say, like, I don't like, I don't know if I don't really like I don't pray for myself, but like or I guess
sometimes I do. Yeah, But like if I pray to like, if I pray to you, it's like, hey, man, I hope that you don't get hit by a car that I have no control over it. I don't think the pray is going anywhere, but I'm expressing to you that I hope you don't get hit by a car. Uh and and that all of the things outside of your control go well, and not necessarily that I am sending an energy to a omnipotent force that is in control of those things. I don't believe in that, but yeah.
You know, yeah, now I'm on the same level. I believe the universe is indifferent to us. It's just chaos, and you know, we're just living here and most things are just out of our control and man as well just enjoy the ride.
But it's funny because yeah, I look at it like Orthodox studiaism, I guess, just all religions and all things where it's like why are why are we doing this? Like the certain religion, like the certain traditions and whatnot. Like if you like, I don't know, were you like, were you ever in Hebrew School and you're like why do we There's a thing about this. It's the fucking dude, you know the Four Questions?
Oh on Passover?
Yeah yeah, okay, So I'm gonna try to explain this and maybe you can help me fill in the gaps. But like Passover is a Jewish holiday where I believe it is commemorates a time where like the Jews were slaves and God freed them and like sent a bunch of plagues down to their like captors and whatnot. Yeah, yeah, we're slaves in Egypt, and like there there's a part of so we have a sayer which is like this fucking a dinner. Yeah, there's a dinner that kind of
commemorates that. And there's a part of the sator called the Four Questions where you you reenact to this thing of these like four children who are asking why do we do this stuff?
Yeah?
And and the first three there's okay, wait, okay, there's a there's a.
Sorry, two separate things. There's the four questions, and there's the four children. Two separate things.
Okay, who are the four children? There's four different children.
I know what I'm saying in Hebrew. So there's a smart one. There's the smart one who knows everything. There's a bad one who knows everything but goes against it. There's a tom I'm not say in English, but they got with the humor names. And then there's two like one who doesn't know what's going on. He's just like minded there somehow, and then one of them I forgot what the middle third one is he also doesn't know
what it's just going on. But yeah, it's basically supposed to be like I don't know, some type of metaphor for life.
I don't know, but.
There's okay, so there's what there's a smart child, the dumb child or whatever child, the wicked child. Okay, this is what's always gotten. I'm sure I've said this on this stupid podcast. I've said this before, but this has always gotten to me, is okay. The wicked child asks the question that essentially goes, yo, why do we like do all this stuff? Like what's the point?
You know? Yeah?
And do you know what The answer to the wicked child's question is that slipped my mind if the wicked child. The wicked child asks, so, wait, why do we do all this stuff? And the answer the wicked child's question is how dare you question this? If you were an egypt you would not have been saved? Do you remember that? I'm not crazy? Right, that's the answer to that. Hold on, I'm like, I'm hold on, Jamie looked this up. I'm Jamie, I'm looking it up. The wicked child passover. Yeah, the
wicked child is like, uh, why do you Oh? Yeah, okay. The wicked child says, why do you guys do this? And by saying you guys, he's signaling his own alienation from like, hey, why are you guys doing this stuff? As like he's signaling that he's not part of it. And then the answer in the book is because he has excluded himself from the community he is, he has committed heresy. Therefore, the Lord would not have saved him.
See that ship. I just that's I don't know, that's there's a lot of you know what is I was, I'm in Brazil right now, and I was looking at the thing, the big statue with Jesus, and I was thinking about Jesus, and I was thinking about religion, and is a lot like Jesus said a lot of stuff that made sense. He was like, you know what, I love your neighbor, all that other stuff, and then I'm whatever,
I'm sure Moses did a bunch of stuff. To all the religion, they're like nice things about them, but then they're all like, it's so weird because like at the core of a lot of them is like these nice things and then there's all these like traditions and fear and whatever that surrounds them. Yeah dogma. Yeah, it's a good, good way to put it, that surrounds them. And that's
such a bummer to me. Could you imagine if it had gone differently, if it was like we had all the nice parts of religion without the dogma.
I mean, in my opinion, it's like a lot of people how they interpret it. Yeah, I don't know much about Christianity or Jesus, but like in Judaism, most of the stuff we follow just as like some dude's interpretation of what the Bible said and they argue about it. It's something called atama and they argue about what it means, and whoever won that argument, that's how we have to live by. So it's like very like I don't know
what's the word, not patriarch but very dogmatic. But there's like another word like what I say is the thing they have to follow or something Yeah I read it, well.
Yeah, it's you know, it's it's funny because that feels to me like it feels like you can either like your parents for example, or or whoever is like you know, deeply ingrained in like a fundamentalist and interpretation of their religion is like there's a deep there's a deep comfort in that. But if you want to start asking yourself questions,
you'll have an insane existential crisis. Oh yeah, and it'll take you to a place that's not it's they it'll take you to place it's just nowhere that's just terrifying. But you will pay but you but I think I don't know it's by the way, neither of those journeys is the correct one. You still you know, die, But I think if you're alive, it's but you I I I'm a fan. I think taking the journey is good.
Yeah, I want to recommend it for everyone, like a lot of times, and I'm just thinking about it. I'm like, if I just stayed in the fold and never left and just live an ignorant, I might have been happier, you know, get get like matched up with a girl and have kids and just live a life and ignorance and don't know better. Yeah, coming out, But you know.
What, here the the thing about like that arranged marriage stuff too. Maybe not the arranged marriage is a heavy thing for it. But like I had this thought the other I think nihilism is like a it's like a scale issue, you know, like yeah, of course you don't, like all the time the album walking around like I'm in Brazil, there's an eighty billion people, and I'm like and I'm like, I like, there's like I don't matter, you know, but you don't. But that's you don't have
to matter, but you don't, but you don't. But it's a scale issue because you don't have to matter to the whole universe. You just have to matter in order to not go down like a crazy existential nihilistic path. You just have to matter to like something or someone outside of yourself.
You know.
That's where that's where I think I've gotten it. My nihilism's got out of controls because it's just a scale issue. It's like you want, you want to feel like you matter on a grand scale of things. But that's that's insane. You know, nobody. You could be the most in you could be the most talked about person ever, and you
don't matter on a scale issue. Yeah, but if you just made whatever, if you just have like a friend who want who likes that you're not dead, or if you deliver mail and you got to deliver the mail to that one guy, like you know, just just scale it, scale it down until you matter.
Yeah. Now I'm with you on that, But I mean I haven't had that feeling. Like you said, you're in Brazil eighty other people like I used to travel a lot, or go to Japan Tokyo on a whim and just go there alone for a couple of days, and I would just love getting lost there, not mattering at all, not understanding the language, just being a spec and just walking down the street. And I don't know, I just found a lot of comfort in that. At the time, I can't really do that anymore because they have a
job responsibility. But back when I was in college and I just really enjoy doing that. But yeah, I do like if I matter to someone, Like sometimes I wonder, like what if I did die in my apartment I live alone, Like the name will have to complain until like start smelling outside or something like. I think my biggest fear like I was just choking to people or something and no one could find me until my body's decaying or some ship.
Yep, No, I have I have that. I have that thing. I have that same thought where yeah, there's a lot I've had that same thought in my in my living alone. That's a classic living alone thing where I'm like, ship, it would take a long time for someone to find out if I died.
Yeah, people will listen to your podcast. It's like, hey, kid, me come up with a podcast a long time, what's up with him? Yeah?
I guess that I could be the case. Yeah, that could be. That could be the case. Do you have a girl? Do you have a girlfriend or anything like that?
No, don't have a girlfriend, never really been in a serious relationship, Like I've only had like flings out lasted for a couple of months. Mostly when I was younger, I was just unstable, Like I couldn't commit to anybody, Like it was just tough. I was trying to find myself. And now that I'm older, you know, it's looking back. I mean, yeah, I'm trying to find someone to, you know, spend the rest of my life with. But it's tough when you get older too.
How can I ask how old you are?
Late thirties?
Well, and why is why has it been getting getting tougher for you? I don't know.
I used to rely on like dating apps a lot, and when I was like living in New York, like I would get like four or five days tonight, Like if I wanted to go on four or five days tonight, I would just go on four five days tonight. Like sometimes I'd go on a date and I forget the girl's name. I'll call her the girl I'll see earlier that night. I called her by her name, and they'll be like, what the fuck. But now it's like I'm in a much smaller city, and like I guess I
guess give. I gave up on dating apps a couple of months ago. It's just dead, Like I have not gotten any matches or anyone who actually wanted to like meet up. I have some conversations and I will just spade away. So yeah, I'm trying on the message. I'm trying to get more out there, meet people in person. Thinks like that. But it's tough. You know, I'm getting old, and you know it's not like when you're in your twenties, and you know it's easy to make friends. But it's
not difficult, very difficult. I would say, in the city I live in now, but the city I lived in before was really hard. I was like boss level making friends.
Why wait, okay, so the city live in now is easier than the city lived in before? Oh yeah, why what was Where did you live before?
I don't want to say the city because I know people are gonna listen to this and know who I am. I don't want to get ducked. Oh city in the Upper Midwest. Just say it's very cold there. It's just notoriously cold, and it's just people don't leave their house like six months out of the year. Sometimes can't really meet people. If you don't have your friends or like a girlfriend or a pet, you're gonna like spend like most of the winter alone.
Why what's your life like now? Now?
I'm chilling. I just moved to Colorado a couple of months ago. You know, I'm really out, really into like outdoorsy stuff, hiking, camping, skiing, mountain biking, things like that. Yeah, I just find friends that way. I meet up with some branded people on the trail sometimes and exchange numbers. We had Nami Tuk group, and I, you know, start showing up to their rides or their hikes or their camping trips. So, yeah, it's only been a couple of months here and so far, so good.
Pretty good, pretty good. M Do you still talk to a lot of the friends that you had growing up?
I actually just met one a couple of weeks ago. I haven't seen the guy in like ten years, and we were just catching up. Turns out like he's not that religious either, and we're just catching up and like we're like where the rest of the guys I grew up with, Like where are they all now? And it came to that they're all married with kids, and you know, we living their life and I had nothing to do with that, now, did he? So I don't really talk to them anymore, Like if they see me on the street,
they won't recognize me. Like I don't look to say.
Hmm, you know, I know that you kind of first initially wanted to talk about like the way you grew up, and I guess I want to get back to that for a second, where there are like other aspects of the way that you grew up that you feel like affected the way you exist now in your late thirties.
Oh yeah, every aspect of it. Like it took me, I'm not gonna lie, it took me like ten years to like find myself and like be happy with who I am. You know, it's really tough. They they ingrain you pretty good, you know, off the get go, like you're in their school system, and then you kind of like stuck in that loop unless you break out of it somehow. And yeah, it's like cult like shit, like everything they tell you about, like there's an organizations that
help people get out of it. I only found out about that like after I was already transitioned into like absurdist or non religious, but actually volunteer for them sometimes try to help people out as well. Really, yeah, it's tough.
Yeah, what does that tell you about that? What does that look like?
Uh So, I mean when you go and when you grow up in like an alt Orthodox or a Sitic sect, like you're not going to college, you're not learning English and you're learning math, you'n't learning anything. If you're lucky to have some bullshit program for an hour a day or have a tutor, they'll teach you some of that. But I had to get a ged I told myself through college. I had to go to grad school, payment out, like I'm still paying off student death and all that.
And a lot of people just don't know who come out of the sect and like they don't know where to go, they don't have a degree, that nothing. I can't even write their name in English. Some of them, like it's tough. So I just try to help Malcolm guidance. I work in IT, so tell him to send people who are trying to like get into the IT like world like software engineering and things like that. I try to guide them and you know, put them on the right path.
What would you say, is the like number one problem that those people who are trying to re enter the real world.
Face cultural differences.
I mean there's a few depends how deep you are in there. If you grew up in like a really really strict sect, Like you could have been married when you're sixteen and your wife was sixteen. You have kids and you're like twenty five. The guy spoke to a guy once. He's you know, right now, he's an atheist, but he still lives in the community. He has like five kids who go to Yeshiva, and his wife is still religious, and he has no idea what the fuck
to do. He's like I still have to pay for their school, and like I hate this whole thing, but I can't just make This is the way my wife and the kids want to live, so I have to support them. And he's stuck in the house like I've never felt the bath or someone in my life. Like he was just in between a rock and a hard place, like he had no way out. That's like the toughest one. Yeah. The people was just integrating into society like without any skill.
You know, wow, they don't.
Yeah, they don't like train you for any skill, like when you're in school or whatever, like you're learning math, you're learning English or learning literature. They don't teach any of that. You're just get your head into the Torah and the Bible and pretty much it.
So this kid is pretty So. This kid's like more or less like groomed into like starting a family with another sixteen year old, and then like he's once he like kind of gains his own consciousness, He's like, Yo, what the fuck am I?
Guy?
I can't just leave these kids, Like I can't just like damn, that's fun. And I also like the yeah, dude, I also like the the the dissonance between like you and like your wife who you have to who's like your fucking yeah supposed to be like your your partner and doing all this stuff. Like that's crazy too, that's sucking five of them.
Yeah, I don't know exactly how the kids they have, but yeah, it was like I had like I don't I don't know what to say. But they have the organization that you know, I'm a part of now, Like they have resources for people like him, you know, if they want to get divorced. Also, another big thing is like in some communities, if you there's a whole New York, there's New York Times, New York who wrote a massive article about this. It's like if the mother leaves the religion,
like who where the children going? Or something basically like if you leave the religion, they're the the community has these lawyers that would make sure you never see your children again. WHOA really yeah, yeah, they'll make They're very well connected, the powerful lawyers. There's a New Yorker article about it. I forgot the name of it. It was pretty it was pretty scan a mess when it came out,
probably like twenty twenty. It was like talking about it like they will fight too from they all to get full custody other kids, whichever parents stays religious.
Wow, how is that even fucking.
Like legal they have they would they're just I.
Don't know, they have like top lawyers and they'll like blackmail you and I don't know. It's crazy shit. That's not the sect that came from, the sect that came from a little more chill. This is like worst case scenario.
So what's your interpretation of absurdism? Because you hear stuff like that, you hear stuff like this, and you go, wow, that's blatantly unfair. Life is pretty crazy. There's no no one's really lo ones, really tipping the scales and whatnot. Exactly what I don't know if I actually don't know if people have talked to about absurdism before. But I don't really have a good understanding of it.
I mean, the most simple explanation is from like Albert Camera's book The Messa Bus, where you know, the massive setupus he has to push that boulder up the fucking mountains the rest of his life, and it rolls down he has to do it again. So like Albal Camera's like, we have to imagine that's just what's happy doing that. He knows that he just to do the stupid ship every single day, but he doesn't care. He just he's just happy to just roll the boulder up. He's smiling
and he's having a good time doing it. Uh. It's hard to interpret that because like, yeah, it sounds like it's rough and you know a lot of times life throws should I you that you're not expecting it, you know how to handle it, even like me, like I don't know how to handle some things. Sometimes I can't even like look into a servis and like what do I do? But you know, in most cases I try
to come out on top like I don't. One of the funny interpretations I think I was reading a book somewhere and there was like some exercises where you can practice to be an abservice. So one of the funny ones was like, go wait in line for like a ticket or something. It looks like it took a two hour long line. Just wait in line a second, it gets your turn, Just walk away. Now. I was like,
that sounds awesome, and I did it. I was like waiting a line like on a like Apple store for iPhone or some ship, like an hour and I got this my turning. I fucking I just walked away and I got a kick out of it. It's fun. And that was it. Yeah, tell me, tell me. Yeah.
So in in that, in that moment, how did it feel. Why did you enjoy doing that? What did you feel like? You were?
You were? It was like why who the fuck would do that? Wait on line for an hour for no reason and just walk away. I just thought it's hilarious and I got a kick out of it. That made me happy.
Did it make you feel empowered that you were like? Uh, you were?
You were?
You were like you were you were subverting all the expectations of you were subverting so many powerful expectations in that moment.
Yeah, I mean I might not have gotten the full extent of it because in my mind and I'll get to do it. So like if you just like wait a line, I don't know when their next iPhone or something comes out, or PlayStation six or whatever, and like I really want that PlayStation six, and you wait a line, and then you get to the front and you just walk away. Maybe it's a different feeling. So I don't know. I planned it out. I did it so I knew it was coming.
What other sort of absurdist exercises have you done like that?
I not really exercises, I think it really comes to mind. But just like I just don't take things too seriously, you know, like just in general, I try like to you know, no, I have no problem like just lapping on myself and things like that. Other exercises not like come to mind. There are a few, though, but ye, if anyone wants to like really get into absurdism, I would say, just read like The Myth of Sisyphis by
Albert Camo or any of his other book. He has some good book do you and They're pretty sure easy to read.
Do you feel like sis sometimes? Like in what? In what aspects of your life do you feel the most like you're just rolling a boulder up a hill.
I mean every fucking day, man, Like out on the ground, I'm working, I'm like, you know what if I never meet someone and never you know, get married or have kids or whatever, and like I'm just gonna die one day and all my money is just I don't know, I'll probably give it to my family and my nieces and nephews, and I'm like, what's the point of all this? Like why am I doing this now? Just to like move on to wherever the fuck we go and we die. Yeah,
So it's just's what it feels like. Every day, wake up, same fucking shit every day. Some days it's not. I guess I'll take a day off for the weekends. I'll go to outdoors and stuff, which I really enjoy. So those days are.
But don't you, don't you, but don't you scheme? Because my here's the thing. I scheme, Like when I when I when I notice that I am falling into some kind of sisifian thing, I'll scheme I still have I I guess you know, I don't. I still have hope that I can escape my Sisifian cycles via various schemes. I still believe in that. Do you have you lost all beliefs?
Do you give me an example of a scheme?
Okay, I can, Yeah, I can give you an example of the scheme. And we've started, like like like with dating for example, I'm like, I'm like, if I get super ripped, it'll be easier, so I'll scheme to do that. But then also I'll fail to do that as well. Oh like doing like like doing work, like doing work or whatnot. I'm like, Okay, every day I feel like I'm in like fight or flight mode to like get
work done. If I'll scheme to come up with a better system to get my work done so that it's done ahead of time instead of like, uh, you know, feeling like I'm in fight or flight all the time. Yeah right, So like I don't know, I just have all the and like I'm by the the But the funny thing is the schemes, the scheming in and of itself is Sissifian. Because I've been talking this is you know I do this every year.
Yeah, Like the scheme is also just a temporary fix. It's like it's gonna whatever is chasing you, whatever fight or flight, it's gonna catch up to you again. Schemes.
See, I disagree with you, though I disagree with you because I still have well, no, I well, I disagree with you out of u uh, well I think I disagree with you. Well, okay, let me I have a few things is and listen. Some of this could just be cope, but I don't. I don't think cope is ultimately a bad I don't think cope is a bad thing. No, I kind I think that the world shapes itself around the way you view it, and I've felt that deeply
in practice. So when I am scheming and I'm feeling like I have some hope, and I'm like, you know, I don't have to be in a fight or flight all the time. I don't have to be in nihilistic mode all the time. I don't have my life doesn't have to always look like this, Like life doesn't always have to look like this big sure sisifian thing. I find that I'm like, I act more productively, and then that leads me towards feeling like life is not a big,
crazy specifian task. But then when I'm overtaken by nihilism and I'm like there's no hope or whatever, then I just you know, you find what you look That's like what manifestation means to me is like you find you find what you what you look for or what you believe to be true and being true in some way. So I guess that's my h retort. But I'm sure it gets hard. I'm sure it gets harder the more, uh times you go around the sun with it.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, honestly, just take it one day at a time. So I do it, like you know, every day, go to bed, wake up, hoping it will be a better day, but usually not. It's just the same shit, same grind, same thing, over and over.
Are the okay the man ask you this. The people who stayed and they got married and did a bunch of all that crap. Like the people you know, like your friends, Yeah, are they happy?
Well?
How do they feel?
I haven't really had a heart to heart with anyone. I would say the closest is probably by siblings. I mean they're there. I would say they're happier than me for sure. There but they're living in more ignorance there. They refused to peak over the wall, you know, see what's on the other side there. But yeah, they're definitely happier than me. They have their families and everything, and and there's me.
I's got myself interesting.
Yeah, they got their own problems of you know, costs a lot of money raising raising kids these days. Yeah.
You got to pick your fucking poison. That's what I've I think that's what I've learned is you got to pick your fucking poison. You commit to fucking something.
Yeah, I haven't really committed to anything. I'm just trying to live through life and you know, having my best time here. And that's it.
Where do you want to What do you want to do next with it? What's what's well? Okay, before we go, what's the next for you? Do you think?
Ah?
Man? I mean I just moved here, So this was like a big stuff for me. I basically city I was living in before. I was there for a really long time. I feel like I was mexile there, So getting out of that was like my biggest breakthrough. Next thing, I don't know, I mean, hopefully maybe i'll I'll meet someone I'll get along with and spend my life with them. That's my hope. But if that doesn't happen, then my backup plan is retire early, moved to Eastern Europe and live my life there.
Where in Eastern Europe I don't know.
I haven't decided on. Oh yeah, somewhere where my dollar will carry me a lot stronger than it would hear, Maybe like Romania, Bulgaria. Yeah, I can retire early and just live comfortably.
You know, it's not it's not the worst plan. B. It's good to have a plan. It helps you. It helps you sleep at night.
Yeah, exactly, So it to keep me going.
Right now, would you say your name was uh?
We said Steve?
Right, yeah, Steve. I'm glad I got to talk Steve.
Yeah great talking to you, was right?
Anything else about any of the stuff that you text to me, or anything at all in the entire universe that you wanted to say to the people or talk about or anything before we go?
Uh?
Yeah. Just keep your head up and you know, when times seem hard, just try to push through and you know better day will come.
Beautiful, have a good rest of your life, Steve.
Yeah, thank you. Take care of gek.
Take care man, yep, But I like Steve. Although talking to Steve's talking to Steve felt like, uh, it felt like it felt like looking at what my life might be like in ten years if I continued to succumb to nihilism. That's why I still have cope. That's why I still got to have cope. I like Steve. I hope you find some cope. I guess he has found some cope. I love that story about waiting in line for two hours to get the iPhone. I think that's so funny. I think that that's uh, there's a lot
that I like it. I think that's why I think that that's there's something punk rock about that. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm a fan of that. Hey, what's up everyone, how's it going. I'm gonna make this a little hybrid phone call gek mail episode because on last episode's gek mail, or last the last gak mail episode, I had some emails that I still wanted to read that I didn't get a chance to read. So I figured I'd spend the rest of
this episode reading them. Uh, if you want to send an episode, if you want to send an email to the podcast for me to maybe read it on the air. You can send it to therapy geckomail dot com. No shit, therap, I don't know why. I don't know how to talk today. Therapy Gecko mail at gmail dot com. And uh, I'm gonna just read some emails and we'll hang out. I think this episode's getting released on Christmas Eve, so hopefully.
I don't know. I don't know if are people going to I don't know if people will listen to this. People are do people usually do stuff on Christmas Eve?
Right?
What are you guys doing? This is why I hate holidays. It's it's it's more, it always feels like a unless if you're like a like a young, hot, cool person, this always feels like a like Ah, crap, Now I gotta figure out what I have to do to celebrate. I'm gonna stop being a fucking loser for a second. Okay. This is from Kaya, subject line reject the digital era or succumb to evolution? Hello, Lyle, I hope you are well.
Thank you Kaya. My conundrum is whether to abstain from the use of technology and social media or to dive in and evolve with this technological era. My relationship with
tech and social media goes in cycles. I start being passionate about rejecting screens and toxic media standards, being determined about pursuing painting and being in nature, then falling into pockets of anxiety and depression, returning to doom, scrolling and frying my brain because I have lost the motivation to do anything, and I don't want to go outside because it's cold. I live in England, so it's always cold.
I don't own a TV in an attempt to rebel against laziness, yet I'm a hypocrite because I use a laptop instead to watch the same five shows on repeat. I do the same fucking thing. I ended up just buying a TV, but I didn't have a TV for a while because I thought I was whatever too cool for a TV, and then I was just laptopping it instead. I also don't watch the news, which is great, so I'm not depressed with how fucked up the world is, but I also feel dumb as shit because I have
no idea what's going on in the world. I want to live my life surrounded by positivity and nature, not glued to a screen, and actually exist in what remains of the physical world. Trouble is, I have problems forming relationships with people due to social anxiety, so I'm already quite isolated and suffer with loneliness. I fear the more I reject evolution, the less connected I will be and the more lonely I will feel. Technology is also so ingrained into everyday human life that it would be almost
impossible to live without it. After being so reliant on it banking, shopping, travel, work, etc. I feel the pros and the cons are even, and I am left not knowing what path to follow. Should I reject the tech and try to live the few years I have on this planet how I want to or suck it up, evolve and learn to live with it? Kaya interesting? Well, I don't. Here's the thing you're drawing to ext and I'm no master of this because I'm addicted to fucking
technology and I hate it. I really do. I really hate how addicted I've become to like watching reels and stuff. I never choose to do it. Fucking Instagram. I don't know if this has happened to you, guys. Instagram did this asshole thing where they put the dms right the dms used to be on the right, upper right hand side on Instagram, so you swipe to the right and
you're in your DMS. And social media has become this thing of like interacting with a lot of people who are like all this short form shit, but at least in the DMS, it's like, okay, I'm gonna be interacting with another human being directly somehow. So now instead when I swipe right instinctively to go to my DMS, it takes me to the fucking reels. And it did that on purpose. That's what pisses me off. It did that
on purpose. It knew that my muscle memory would swipe right to go to the DMS and instead be like, oh, you wanted to talk to an actual person, No, you will get the short form content that makes us the most money. And it's like this is such an asshole. So yeah, so listen, you're dealing I say this to say, yeah, you're dealing with companies that want to make you addicted to this shit like it's in their best interest. And they won. They won globally. It's not even like a
rich it's like it's crazy. It's like like people who like people on the streets have cell phones. People in third world countries have cell phones, like everyone has it. It's crazy how much they'd like just one. You know, I'm on a rant. Back to your conundrum. Back to your conundrum. Uh, you don't have to be all or nothing. You could always spend some time on the screen and sometime off of the screen. I'll say this, try not try to be intentional. I love playing video games. It
is great. I have no regrets about playing video games. So like, if I spend screen time that I chose, I'm pretty happy with it. Like some people like watching movies or TV shows, as long as you're choosing it right, because it's a big difference between choosing to play a video game choosing to watch a movie and finding yourself accidentally scrolling through reels for two hours. So at least, whatever you do, that's what I'll say. That's my kind of By the way, I don't do I'm a hypocrite.
I don't know why I'm giving you advice, but this is any advice I give is just what. Any advice I give is just like what i'd I do if I were the idealized version of myself. But I would say kaya as long as you're being intentional about whatever you're doing. So if you're using technology to connect with other people, as long as you're doing it intentionally, or
if you're not using it, you're doing it intentionally. But try not to get like sucked into the Try not to let the tech use you, I would say, And then if you successfully figure out how to do that, please let me know how you did it, because I'm not good at doing that at all. Okay, let's see. I get a lot of spam emails. What's this? One is the rudest thing you can do on a flight? What the fuck is this? I don't care about this? All right? This is from Jackson, subject line I commute
three hours to work and I'm happy. Hello GEK, I'm Jackson and I now commute three hours to work and three hours home. It sounds crazy, but let me explain that sounds really crazy. Yeah, my fiance and I used to live in Philly, where both of our jobs were. We both graduated in twenty twenty four and have pretty significant student debt. She is a medical lab scientist and I am an aerospace engineer. With how expensive Philly is,
we were both struggling to save money every month. Her parents live in Harrisburg, and they offered to let us move in to save some money, and after some deliberation, we agreed. My relationship with my own family is long and complex, but TLDR there is abuse, neglect, lying, and I no longer speak to my father and stepmother. My real mother left when I was three, so she's out of the question. Two anyway, The point of this email
is that here's a breakdown of my commute. My fiance's father drives me to the train station at four thirty in the morning. He wakes up around then anyway for his own job. Then I take a two and a half hour train to a stop near my work. Then I hop on a foldable bike and ride about twenty
minutes to work. After work, I ride my bike to a different station fifteen minutes nearby, take a train to thirtieth Street station in Philly, which is about twenty minutes, and then I take a train to Harrisburg and get back around seven thirty pm. That sucks. You really can't find hold on Okay, listen, I used to live in Philadelphia. You can't find a shitty You can't like, dude, move, dude, live in like North Philly. They like live live with
like roommates in South Philly. Philly is you're okay, wait, you're an aeros hold on, bro, this doesn't make any sense to me. You're a You're an aerospace engineer and your wife is a medical lab scientist. Get like, get like roommates, get like four roommates. This is a horrible situation. Okay, hold on, you said that you really like doing this, so I'm going to keep going. If you think I'm insane, let me explain. I work remotely two times a week
and then three times the next week. It alternates. I never have to make the commute two days in a row, so I can rest up and sleep in the days I work from home. That doesn't make me feel like this is less insane. I only just started doing this and it hasn't felt terrible. It will, but I am sure the burnout will ensue. Thankfully, it is only a temporary thing. I've decided to stay at my job because I got extremely lucky to land it right outside of college,
and there isn't much opportunity in Harrisburg for me. My manager and work pleasant my manager and workplace environment is also so chill and easy. I struck gold with it. It makes the commute worth it. Dude, just get roommates. Okay. I love having the free time to read and write music because I'm a million hobbies Anyway, I still have plenty of time with my fiance and her family. I have time to do hobby. Thanks for letting me explain my crazy schedule and why I'm happy with it. I
love seeing you and Philly. Last year, you said you liked my green shirt. Jackson Jackson, you seem like a genuine jack Jackson. Jackson is just one of those guys. Dude, Jackson's just one of those guys that, like, Jackson's the kind of guy where like he could someone could point a gun at him and be like, give me your wallet, and He's like, oh my wallet, like this wallet rat. Yeah, of course, of course you get out my wallet. That
came out wrong. How do I say this? Jackson is the kind of guy where just like he's just a like, he's this sweet guy where the toy you seem like the toils of the universe don't get you down. That's the vibe I get from you, Jackson. Jackson, Jackson, don't keep doing this. You're one of those you know, those people that like TLC will cover where it's like he has no pain. He is he doesn't have the nerve and in his arm that make him feel pain. That's
that's you with your entire life, I think. But just because you don't And by the way, that's just like with the guy who you know, lets people punch him in the face for money because he doesn't have the nerve endings. You know, just because you have it doesn't mean you got to take advantage of it. So I don't know, Jackson, this is too it. This is you have. You have to have some kind of uh, you have to have the life nerve endings to show you when
things are shitty. Just get roommates, man, Phil, It's Phil, It's go. You're an aerospace engineer. Like, if you really want to save money, just live with roommates in North Philadelphia and take the Broad Street line to wherever the fuck you're going. But don't do this. This is a terrible idea, Jackson. I'm obsessed with how terrible of an idea. This is, yeah, of course an uprontity. You just started doing it, Jackson, give me a call. I want to directly tell you how terrible of an idea I think
this is. Yes, Jackson, if you can hear me, please give me a call on the podcast sometimes so I can directly tell you one hundred ideas I have of how you can make your life better. What else are you doing with you? I'm curious what else you're doing with your life that you're putting up with. I'm trying to think of things. Do you eat food? Are you just like I? Don't eat food? I don't need it.
I know you think.
I know you think I'm crazy for not eating food and drinking water. But let me explain. If I don't eat food and drink water, I'll save a little bit of money and I don't really need it. I found that my body can just subsist off of air. I need to know more about your life, Jackson, call me on the Real podcast. Okay, let's take let's talk. Let's do one or maybe two of these things. Okay. This is from Alexander A fix for your name being called out at Starbucks. Hey, Gek, I saw you in Saint
Louis in twenty twenty three. Fuck you you signed Gek on a T shirt on the back of my fiance because we didn't have a writing space to write GEK on a shirt. You were also my Facebook profile picture for a while. Thanks for being a part of my life in some way. Thank you, Alex. These are really nice. I feel really lucky, man, I really do. I'm man. This guy Alex that I don't know is really nice to me. I appreciate that. I really don't mean that, and I don't know why. I know it sounds like
I'm being like fucking sarcastic, but I'm not. I it feels nice. Thank you, Alex. Anyways, I'm listening to a podcast episode and you're currently ranting about having to give personal info to a corporation and don't want your name to be called out when you finish when they finish your order. I use Optimist Prime or Megatron when I'm at a restaurant where they call out your name, because I find it pretty funny and you can do whatever you want.
I do that.
I usually say like a fake name. I'll say like Kyle, because if I go to a like a Starbucks or something and they're like, what's your name and I go Lyle, they go what? But if I just say Kyle, they don't say what, and so it's speeds of the process if I do Optimists. Actually, I feel like I don't like Alex. I think what I think saying Megatron is.
It's fun, but I don't like it because it makes the interaction longer and I'm just trying to shorten I'm trying to make the interaction as fluid as possible, and if I say Megatron, they might like give me a stupid look or be like really, or like Also, I don't want to force these people to say Megatron, you know, like that's like that feels like an embarrassment ritual, or that feels like a hazing thing. I don't want to haze the Starbucks workers, man. I want to make their
job easy. I want to make my experience with Starbucks easy. Just you know, I'm not going to force some someone working at Starbucks to yell Megatron.
I don't know.
Maybe it's maybe they like it. I don't I don't know. I don't know how your experience has been. Okay, I'll do one more. I make music for my girlfriend, and that's it is from Samuel. I make music for my girlfriend. Sometimes I pretend my girlfriend is one million people and it makes me feel famous. She doesn't like all my songs, but I made her cry twice. It's really fulfilling. I want to make music for my friends, but I need to get better first, get blessed. That's the whole email.
That's one of the greatest emails that have been sent in this show, and it goes to show that you don't need the email, don't need to belong to be to be great. I love this. Thank you, Thank you so much for sending this. Sam. This is this. You sent this on October twenty seventh. Sorry for just getting around to it now, but that was a fantastic email. I told you I said it before. I said it earlier with Steve. Nihilism's a scale issue.
Man.
All you need is one fucking person to acknowledge that you exist. That's all you need. One thing. If you if you can find one thing outside of yourself, one person or thing that kind of acknowledge that you exist, you can pull yourself out on nihilism. So I appreciate Sam making music for just his girlfriend and feeling as though she's a million people. This is so beautiful. I'm gonna read this. I can I read this again. Is everyone. Okay, is it everyone to write a read this email again
before we go. I'm just read it one more time. It's really beautiful email. I make music for my girlfriend and that's it. Sometimes I pretend my girlfriend is one million people and it makes me feel famous. She doesn't like all my songs, but I made her cry twice. It's really fulfilling. I want to make music for my friends, but I'll need to get better first. That's a beautiful fucking email. Thank you, Sam. I hope, I hope i'd listen. I'd like to hear your music someday. I would love
to hear your music. Sam send me another. If you hear this somehow, send me an email. I want to hear your music because if you write lyrics the way you write emails, I want to hear this music. I'm obsessed with this email. This is the best email. And this is the best email I've ever gotten in the history of a get mail. I'll say it. I know we've gotten emails that it's like, oh, it's a big crazy story and something, and I like those two, but this,
something about this, this makes me really happy. I enjoy this. Thank you, Samuel. That was Gek mail. I hope you guys enjoyed enjoyed this. I hope that you enjoyed the podcast and enjoyed being here. I'm excited. It's a happy new year. This is the last podcast of twenty twenty five. Oh shit, this is the last fucking episode of this of twenty twenty five. Oh fuck. All right, I should say I should say something, right, Thanks for listening to this show all year. Thanks for continuing to be on
this journey with me. It's been five and a half years. Next June, it'll be six fucking years of being a Gecko. That's crazy. Thanks for being on this journey with me. I did not I really didn't think this would last that long. And I'm so honored to keep getting phone calls and emails and keep being able to engage with people, and keep getting to do shit like go to Iraq or Tijuana or Japan or the gathering of the Juggalos and and and make these documentaries and go on tour again.
And uh, it's awesome. I I can't thank he has enough for allowing me to continue to do all this stuff. So thank you, guys very much for being part of this Gecko community. This this this crazy, weird thing that continues to go. We'll keep the train run on as long as you guys want to be on it and gek bless Happy New year. See see you, uh see a next episode. I was gonna say see you next year, but I don't like when people say that, but it is I guess true. All right, see you next year.
Thank you. Hello, folks, it's Lyle here. That's the end of this episode. But get this, I'm releasing a bonus episode this week. That's right, an entire extra hour of the podcast that you can listen to by becoming a premium member of Therapy Gecko over at Therapy Gecko dots supercast dot com. Supercast subscribers get access to bonus episodes.
They get a completely ad free podcast feed of the regular show, they get recordings from my live shows, members only streams, and they help support my ability to continue doing this podcast. So here's a clip from this week's members only bonus episode.
She was like, not treatment right and stuff. So I was like, oh, yeah, you know, I'll rescue this parent. Long story short, I've got a parrot now and she's only there are a lot of work, but my wife is she's good with pets, so she just handled it.
Mostly so you rescue the parrot and then subsequently put it in an also shitty situation. If you want to hear this full conversation, you can sign up to become a premium member at Therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com, or find the link in the episode description that's therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com. All right, I have nothing else to say.
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