Hi, Oh my god, am I on?
Yes you are.
What's your name, Naudia? It's not my real name, but you.
Know, I'm gonna give you some advice if you're going by a if you're going by a fake name, let everyone think it's your real name. It's the point of the fake name to clarify that it's not your real name. It it ruins your progriface.
I just don't want to lie.
To you, you know what.
I respect the intention with which you you did that.
Thank you. I'm glad.
Uh, what's what's going on?
I just want to apologize. If I sound bad, it's because I'm a little under the liver right now. My voice doesn't normally sound like this, but I'm just so psyched that I'm on here. The reason I wanted to talk to you, as I'm sure you know, is because I catfished somebody that I worked with over a year ago, and I broke his heart as the catfish. And now we're like best friends and he still doesn't know that I did this.
Mmm.
Okay, so uh, how do you first start to catfish this guy?
Okay, so it started when he first started working with me. I didn't know anything about him. But one day he said something that came across as like really like homophobic, and I was like, yikes, you know, like you know, you don't just say that shit around people openly. And then I found out from one of the other people that I work with that apparently he told a girl that he wanted to stuff her donut when he was trying to get laid, I guess, and so we thought, yeah, natural,
just you know, regular weird things. So I knew that this guy had tender because I joined Tinder around this time that year, and I had seen him while I was swiping on Tender. So we got the idea to make a Tender profile that was like geared specifically towards this guy. Like the profile it was so specific. It was like I love short guys, I love guys that can cook, just like very generic things that just happened
to apply to him. And within like a few minutes of us swiping on him, we matched and we started talking to him as a fake profile, and we never had any like in depth conversations with him, at least from our angle. Most of it was just us like saying the weirdest shit and like trying to get like some kind of like reaction or suspicion out of him, and like, I think we told him that our grandma was like addicted to cocaine and that she was hiding coke in the the flower pantry.
So did you did you?
Ever?
How long? How long did you talk to this guy as the fake profile?
We talked to him for two months and it ended because he started to get saucy one night and we wanted to see like just how far we could, like what kind of crazy stuff we could say to like scare him away. Like we told him to open his bitch hole for mommy at one point, and that still didn't scare him away, and he started asking for live pictures, so we like panicked and we left him undelivered for like two days, and then a few days later he like just finally ended.
Yeah, So so you say that he was heartbroken, What did he say to you, either that you found out about in real life or that the uh you found out through the fake profile.
He blocked the fake profile after we the The thing we did to I guess really make him go away was we've had some like random dude on her Snapchat story and called him a sexy cowboy and he finally just blocked her, I guess, and then when he came back to work, he seemed really upset. And that was when I first was like, oh, like this like actually affected this guy. And I remember one of my other coworkers asked him what was wrong, and he was like, oh, well,
I might want to talk about it later. And that was when I started feeling bad for it, like, you know, beyond just like oh, this is a silly thing I'm doing.
Okay, so you said you started to feel bad for I feel bad about doing this. What what did those feelings look like?
Well, especially started once I actually like got to know him. It started around the beginning of this year, Like my work started throwing these little parties after work where we
all drink and we'd have like a good time. And that was when I started like actually talking to this dude, and I was like, oh, he's actually kind of like cool and sweet, and he eventually like joined my friend group over time, and now like we're really close, and like over time, I've just been feeling like worse and worse about it because it's like he doesn't know about this horrible thing I did. But I know it, and if I tell him, it's like he's never gonna talk
to me again. And it's like, as much as I want to tell him, it's like I don't know if it would be worth it, if that makes sense, But I also feel like genuinely guilty about it. But it's just a matter of like if it would be worth to, like how much things would change if I were to like tell him, m.
A, is this for you? Has this experience like changed your perspective on people in any way or giving you a lesson of any kind?
I think so, Yeah, it's kind of taught me that, like I'm not always right about people from the get go, you know, like that's definitely one thing I've learned, because like at the time, I just thought this guy was like some weird, little homophobic troll, but he's actually like chill with like me and my friend group and everything. So now it's just like, oh, like, you know, if I knew what I knew now, I wouldn't have done it.
But I don't know how much I can blame myself for doing it with what I knew at the time.
You know, Okay, you said you did this with a friend.
Yeah, I did this with two of the people I was living with at the time. One of them denies any and all involvement in it to this day, but was definitely involved.
Okay, Uh, do they know this guy personally at all?
Yeah, he has been hanging out with like all of us, Like we hang out at those people's house like regularly. Other people I did it with.
So, so, what are their thoughts and feelings about the situation.
I'm with one of those people right now. Actually I'm not.
Don't worry.
I'm not gonna put you on the spot.
But does she I mean, I'm down to hear from her perspective if she wants to tell us?
Do you want to talk to?
What am I supposed to say?
Hello?
Hi? Hi? What's your name?
Hi? My name is Meredith.
Hello, Meredith. How are you doing?
I am doing amazing? I can't believe I'm talking to you.
So.
Uh, Meredith, you heard your friend tell this story that you were involved with, and you've heard her feelings about it.
Hm, what.
Are your feelings about it?
I have no regrets. I would do it all over again.
Interesting, Why do you feel like you would do it all over again?
I it was just a wonderful experience, and it's it brought us closer together than me and this other person here. And even though the person who was affected by it is still experiencing the effects, I think it was worth it because he deserved it. It also it also it also changed him for the better, because before he was he's a little homophobic grimlin and then like now he's more open and like, I feel like we did that as the catfish.
Why do you think your feelings about this are so different from your friends?
Can I tell the truth here? You can let me tell the truth here?
Please?
Yeah, go ahead, Okay, I had to get permission first. This Naughtia here eventually fell in love with the person that we catfish. I wouldn't say love selling light.
Okay, okay, but I mean I mean, look to me, these two retrospectives on this situation.
Are not.
Like like to me, even the not now that Nadia did have like a deeper personal relationship with this guy feels irrelevant to me in terms of how she now views the situation as a whole because she took a lesson from it of you know, not going you know, not feeling as though you know a person based off of very little information, which is a general broad lesson that has nothing to do really with her having any sort of deep personal relationship with the guy. And I'm wondering,
you know that from just an objective level. Does does that not resonate with you as an idea, these ideas that she's talking about as to why she feels guilty about it?
No, because for me, I got to know him a little more as just as did Nadia, but I did not eventually like him.
Okay, do you feel as though you can do wrong onto people if you feel like you're justified in doing it?
Yes?
What makes you feel like that?
You can't see it? But Meredith is shrugging right now.
No, I'm asking you genuine question. It's not like a gotcha moment or anything.
I want to know, still shrugging. So I guess I'll speak my piece here. Okay, sure, because I've been having talked about this recently, Because one of the reasons I've been wanting to talk to you about this so bad is because one of my other close friends recently just kind of like confronted me and basically told me that they think I'm like this like mean spirited person who just like enjoys doing these things to people, and this was like the most prominent example, and you.
The angel on your shoulder, don't you Apparently yeah, okay, so tell me more.
They just.
Oh, sorry, you're good. But they they like kind of cited this as like proof that I'm like just generally like not a good person because I can do these things to people. But it's like, again, like I don't think they fully understand that, Like, you know, this isn't something I just did for like no reason. I wasn't like I'm just going to rip this dude's hard out of his chest, even if that's what we ended up doing it. At the time, it wasn't from a place
of like genuine malice to an innocent person. It was just like, oh, this guy is like has a really shitty worldview. Let's let's mess with them a little. But now it's turned into like this whole thing where I'm questioning my own morality.
Well even that, I mean even I mean, that's that's I guess when I'm asking Meredith. And again again I'm not you know, inflecting any kind of like you know, personal view on it, but I I want to understand deeper like why, I mean, do you I mean, do you feel as though if you feel like you're justified, uh to to do something to someone that you should do it?
Is that to both of us or just Meredith?
Sorry?
Well I asked it to Meredith and she she doesn't have an answer, which is which is fine, But I'm curious what yours is.
That is a good question. That's That's definitely another thing I've been struggling with because at the time, like another element of it was like it just felt like a funny thing to do, like I guess, not something necessarily that I should do, but that like you know, like, oh, I'll get a kick out of seeing what like this weird little man says to his like fake tender soulmates.
Well, it's funny that you guys are friends. I mean, it sounds like you have gained a new perspective out of this situation. And yeah, I don't know. Hopefully that perspective is helpful to you and you believe in it and that it guides you towards doing the things in the future that you you are proud of. I guess.
Do you think we should tell him? Yet?
I cannot answer that question.
I appreciate that.
Let me ask you that I can. I ask you a question before we.
Go, Yes, ask me a question.
Do you think you should tell him?
Well, I guess I'm gonna go right back at you with the I don't have an answer to that because on a moral standpoint, I think I should, But on a standpoint of like basic self preservation and not wanting to dig up old wounds, I also don't think I should because I think telling him would ultimately harm both me and him more than it would, like help me relieve myself with this burden. If that makes sense.
Yeah, that does make sense. It does make sense. I don't know. I'm not the fucking moral police, and I don't even think, thank you. I don't. Well, nobody fucking acts morally all I don't fucking act morally all the time. I gotta sit here and tell you two. So, I mean, do whatever feels right. I suppose that was a stupid thing to say. I could have just said nothing, but I said do what ever feels right, which doesn't make any sense. God damn it, do what ever feels right?
Now? Do you?
Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go.
I just wanted to say I was totally like stoked that you took my call. I'm sure everyone says that, but it just made my night, Like you have no idea how long I've wanted to talk to you. Everyone, don't catfish weird little guys that you work with. They might turn out to be kind of cool.
Meredith. Any is Meredith still there? Does she have any final words before we go?
Fuck bitches, get money?
Thank yes for calling?
Thank you?
That that poses an interesting question. Should you fuck with people if you feel like they deserve it? And as somebody who has fucked with people in my life before because I felt like they deserved it, I don't know the answer to that question. I mean, at this point in my life, I feel like the answer is no.
But I don't know. Some person who knows about like history and fucking science and psychology or something could sit down and have some good argument as to why you should be able to do things if you feel justified in doing it. But I guess my thing is I don't. And again, in the when I was in a fucking in high school, I probably fucked with a lot of people just because I felt like, you know, they deserved it. I should be able to fuck with them. But to me,
that feels childish. That's why I did it when I was a child, because what I don't I guess where I stand now in my life. I don't feel comfortable designating myself as like the universe's moral arbiter. Like I get to decide who has done wrong, and then I get to decide that they deserve something or don't deserve something. That's just not a power I feel comfortable wielding, and so I don't. I don't know if it's a power
that any one mortal shall wield. That's why I'm not a fucking this is I'm not Christian, but I do believe in the weird hippie sense that only God can judge. And so if I decide to judge, does that make me am I declaring myself as a god? Isn't that insane to declare yourself as a god? All right, let's take another call.
Hello, Hi, Hi, I'm Noko, Noko.
How are you doing?
I'm live and kicking, and that's not it?
Noko? How can I how can I get you today? What's going on with you in the universe?
Well? I have a shut in. I've been a shut in for years, a year at least, and I was going fine because I was doing remote work. That they cut my remote hours from five days a week to two. And then my significant others she's not too I'm happy about not being able to go outside with me. So it's just my shudden ness is just starting to get in the way of my life.
So tell me where the shutting ness originated from.
I wish I knew there's on and off for my entire adult life, but and then as a teenager, I was always stuck in the house.
So so is this is this like a gloraphobia?
That's what the what the term I used before I started seeing a doctor and then she told me, no, it's not a gloraphobia. And then we haven't come to a diagnosis yet after six months of sessions. But it's not a gorphobia, apparently.
Tell me more about what the doctor is telling you. Why what what information have they given you as to what might be going on with.
You outside of the normal depression. And they're claiming PTSD but I don't even know what could even be PTSD in my life. But yeah, I don't know why and I'm not too concerned why if it wasn't. Honestly, I'd be okay with never leaving the house. If I could just work, people would let me work, you know.
So you would be okay with never leaving the house if it didn't affect your work. So you have no this is not a thing that you even desire to overcome.
Not particularly, And I'd rather set my life around not leaving than leaving.
You know, it's not necessary. And if you don't have it, that's cool. And if you don't even want to tell me, that's cool. But do you have a explanation of some kind? Again, you don't even need to, But do you have an explanation of some kind as to why you have no desire to overcome this?
I mean, I don't have an explicit reason. It's just I'd rather be comfortable than uncomfortable. I guess I'd rather not deal with the anxieties that come with dealing with the public and people and strangers and all that. Sure, But I guess that's about all the reason that I have got, you know.
Okay, I you know, look, I think that's legitimately. I think you're you know, as a free human on the earth. You are entitled and compelled to live your life in whatever way you choose, but you're finding it difficult to work in these constraints.
Yeah, i've before. See I started working remote in twenty twenty. Well what it it's twenty twenty two now, so it would have been twenty twenty one. I started working remote for the first time. But before then, i'd be able to work for I don't know, like three months or so, and then just stop going in, just no call, no show, and never never come back or talk to them again. And then I started working remote, and then I actually started working for it's really started working for the state.
And apparently you can't get fired from the state. So when I just stopped going in and talking to everybody, instead of just firing me, they actually reached out and said, hey, we can provide you with a doctor. Just go to this doctor, be remote and keep doing your work. And then a couple of weeks ago they said, well the remote time's over. You need to start going back into
the office. And at that point I told my doctor, hey, I can't do this, and she said, well, you can take fml not fuck my life, but family medical leave, which is cool. Which means I won't get fired, but it also means I'm not getting paid three days a week. I mean, I'm a single father and you know, just trying to make it on my own, which is not easy paying rent on a single income.
Have you looked into any alternative work that you might be able to do from home, just.
Just just some remote stuff. I've tried to look at a couple of different things, and I've even been told that I qualify to go on disability and get those neat bucks. But it's just it's much to do, you know. The doctor's prescribed of all things ken of me, and I don't know how I feel about that.
I wanted to ask you this year, your father, Yeah, how has what's been going on with you affected that aspect of your life?
Oh? My kid's twelve now and they're more interested in staying in and playing games anyway, which I so it's really just a guilt thing. Having know, I'd like to take them out and go and do things, but it's already hard enough for me. And when they say, oh, I don't want to do anything anyway. Yeah, so it's it's affecting my guilt a lot. I feel like I'm not doing I'm setting a bad example, you know.
Mm Hm, does that guilt compel you to change anything?
That guilt has kept me from commit becoming an hero a couple of times, but and it's kept me from running away out of the state and going and living in the woods. But uh, and I guess it's what's keeping me going to see a doctor. I mean, I could just say do what I've always done and say screw it. I'm just gonna like just quit my job and screw this mental health thing. It's not working, you know, for six months and nothing's changed. But like, h, they're
keeping being going. I guess you don't really like I do. I do, and especially now, ah, because they're getting older and this is the time when they're really learning life, you know. And uh, I really like teaching her about these things, but it's hard not to be give her a bleak outlook on things too. HM.
Do you have in your mind an outlook a vision of philosophy of any kind for her that you would like to see her adopt or open up to, just about life, even if it's different from your personal one.
I really wish I could say, Yeah, it's a lot of times, you know, and like hard things happen. H I don't know what to say, and I end up just sitting next to her, you know, because if I were to say what's on my mind, then it's just incredibly bleak and it's best not to give my view of my world view.
Yeah that makes sense, Yeah, it does, it does.
Mm hmm.
No, col it sounds like it sounds like you are dealing with a lot, and it's good to hear.
That you.
Are still doing the best you can in spite of that. You know what I'm saying. It sounds to me like you're doing the best to be the best father that you can within the constraints of your mental health issues.
I mean, I don't know what else to do, you know. It's yeah, it's a by day thing for me right now, and it's.
Just you know, but I mean just to just to I mean, look at the ways from what you've told me on the phone in which you're trying like going to the doctor like you. I mean, you said this yourself. I just want to point it out, you know, you totally. I mean, like I told you earlier, I was like, you are free as a human being to live life. However you want. You don't have to make any attempt to change how you're currently living. But you're going to the doctor. You don't have to go to You're a
grown man. You don't have to go to the doctor ran too. But you're doing it. But you're doing it because you want to try, because you want to be a better father. I think that's an admirable thing to do, to try to help yourself so that you can be a better father. I just wanted to say.
That, Yeah, yeah, and I and that's ultimately I want to I want to be a better father. I want to be a better significant other, I want to be a better son, and I want to be a better employee. Mhm. But something, why can't they just see it my way? You know?
So you're going what kind of what kind of doctor are you? Do you also speak with a I don't know. I don't know what the types of doctors are for what you're going to a therapy? Okay, So what has your psychotherapist told you anything else that's been helpful to you?
Honestly? I mean she comes from like I love acid, I love lsky. I take it maybe like once or twice a year and and I really lucked out because she doesn't condemn me for my LD and my cannabis use and all this other stuff. She doesn't say, oh, well that's your problem. You got to stop that, you know. But no, she she listens to me, which has been really good. It's all. That's it, you know what I mean,
It's just, yeah, that sucks. I wish you could do I wish you could have things better, try thinking different, you know, I don't know.
Did she get what's the most helpful thing you think she's told you? Or that you're just that you've gotten out of that experience.
Someone to talk to every every week.
M hm.
That's that's really I mean, that's that's been helpful, and it's been helpful and like remembering things I have, my memory is just gone. But she she does she said that that's a sentiment of PTSD apparently, but she just is just gone. And so she's kind of like unearthed a couple of things. There's just been like two or three sessions that it's just you know, a typical therapy session when you're out, when you're done with it and you're just bawling at the end of it or whatever,
and so there's been a couple of those. I guess that's that's I guess that's progress. I guess that counts as progress.
Okay, So like in defining progress, can I ask you this, and you know, look, tell me the truth of however you feel. But day to day or I guess week to week as time goes on, are you noticing, even if it's microscopic, are you noticing any kind of trajectory upwards or downwards in dealing with this problem?
Yeah, i'd say neither. It just seems I just feel the same. It's like it comes in ebbs and flows, you know, where I get really really bad for a little while. Then I kind of like plateau at an okay level. And I've been all that plateau for a while, so but I'm just waiting for the time when it dips down again. Yeah, And it's good to know that
she's there and she's doing a pro bono, right. I have insurance through my job and she's not even taking the money, so she'll be there even if I did leave my job, which is a relief to say the least. And also knowing that she's not going to call the cops if I say something suicidal and get me in more debt.
You know, I feel like I'm not obviously I think we all know I'm obviously not a real therapist, you know, I think one of my big takeaways, I don't know if your real therapist has but I said this already.
I don't know if your real therapist has brought this up or if this is something that you believe about yourself because you told me about like all this guilt that you have, and if it does any help to alleviate the guilt, and I might not, I don't know, but I do hope that you recognize, at least from my perspective, it sounds as though you are you are doing the best you can to help yourself, to be a good father, to be a better significant other, to be a good son by just showing up every week
to work on it. Just you're trying, and you're trying the best you can within your constraints, and I hope that you're not feeling guilty about that not being good enough, because it's it's a lot. Let's I'll say it again. We both we both said it where you were like, I don't have to fucking go to the dock I don't have to work on this. You don't, You really don't.
You really don't have to. You could if you wanted to, be like, fuck everything, I'm gonna not even work on this issue because I'm too afraid to or I don't feel like it. But you are. You're showing up to therapy every week. You're even you know what, You're even not noticing progress right away, but you're still showing up because you so badly want to be a good father,
to be all those things. And I hope you recognize that that's a big deal and that's not nothing, and I hope you feel good about that, and I hope that that alleviates the guilt because you're dealing with a tough issue, but your role, you're standing beneath the boulder every day, pushing on it. You're not letting it roll back down the hill.
You know.
You're pushing on the boulder. You're not giving up. And I don't know how long it's gonna take. And I'm not a real therapist, and I can't sit here and tell you whether or not things are going to give.
I can't sit here and tell you about the trajectory because I don't know, but I hope you feel good about that, and I hope that you continue to show up every day and work on this, and I hope that as you do, you stop feeling so guilty because you really are doing the best you can, and I think, I think that makes you a good father.
I appreciate those words. I do. I do. It is the best I can.
Is enough, Noko, Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer or any aspect of this that you feel like we didn't talk about that that you would want to talk about.
No, glad you talked to me.
Thank you, Yeah, thanks for sharing this stuff. It's you know, I know, it's it's a lot, and I appreciate you sharing it because you never know who's listening to this, and perhaps somebody else is in you know, some form of a similar circumstance and has helped you, uh sharing, So thanks for doing that.
Thanks thanksking laugh, take care, nokop my mind?
How sorry that is inappropriate to make silly noises after that call. It just was my own personal version of Catharsis after dealing with a heavy topic, I shiit. My post call thoughts are just me reiterating all the things that I've said, do but fuck it, why not? Yes, I think it's uh. They're like, we have limited capacities, limited energy, and limited time and limited health, and I think it's it's important to just fucking focus on doing what you can with what you have. And that's uh
what Noko is doing, man. And I hope he feels empowered by that. And I hope that the empower I hope he feels empowered by that, and I hope the empowerment he feels overcomes beats out the guilt and motivates him to keep showing up. I wasn't gonna say it to him because I don't like to promise that. I don't like to say it gets better because it's I don't know, but I have an inkling of a feeling.
Maybe it's a naive feeling, but an inkling of a feeling that if he shows up continuously to work on the problem, I don't know how long, and I might not even I fucking might not be right, but I would think after some period of time that it would get better. And I cannot tell the future, but I hope that it does. And I appreciate you for calling Noko Hello, Hi is this Greg?
Yeah?
It is. Uh what's life like, Greg?
Life's busy?
Yeah, it was? It busy with school.
I'm finishing my degree finally after a million and a half years.
What are you getting? The degree in.
Art and graphic design?
Yeah?
Yeah, nothing, fancy.
Greg, What is it that you wanted to talk about today?
So, as I'm sure you saw, I used to think that my life was like the Truman Show, but I didn't know the Truman Show existed, if that makes any sense. Like I used to think that everything in my life was like meant. I mean, I guess it's meant to happen, but like people were watching me through cameras and like monitoring my moves and like does that make sense?
Yeah? So you thought that you were being watched and this was before you even knew that the Truman Show was a thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So then like once I finally told people like hey, guys, like I think, like I think I'm crazy, and they're like, no, that's just the Truman Show And I was like no, no, no, like genuinely I think I'm crazy. What is Truman Show?
Yeah? Yeah, How did you feel when you found out that this was a thing? That was actually fictionalized.
I kind of felt stupid. I was like, well, I feel like I don't know that I'm just crazy.
Is this something that you still feel or is this the fear that you've gotten over?
For the most part, I've gotten over it. Like living as like a being watched every move like cameras and like people on queue type thing like okay, go now she's doing this type thing. I've gotten over that. But like I'm obviously mentally unstable undiagnosed.
For how long were you feeling like you were being watched?
I mean it was like the majority of like my high school years. Like I have a very vivid memory of like being in like the back hallways of school and I'm like thinking, Okay, once I turn this corner, they're gonna tell the people on the other side of that wall, like Okay, she's coming around the corner, like go you know what I mean, Like everybody was kind of on a queue around me.
So how did this feeling like you're being watched effect kind of the way that you lived your life?
I feel like I was. I was very impulsive and I tried to like do things. I'm like, this is gonna throw them off today, like this is gonna this is gonna you know, throw them off, and they're not gonna know how to react to this. And I like try to catch people off guard like they were instructed. Okay, Greg, here is gonna react this way, so then you're gonna
react like this. So then I would try to do something crazy out of the ordinary to see if they're like, oh, okay, we didn't we weren't prepared for you to react like this, like our head honcho, doesn't you know to tell us what to do after this?
So you would do things out of your routine and to try to trip up the camera crew?
Yes?
Interesting? Uh did did? Did you ever do like things that were just irrational because you were trying to trip up the camera crew?
I mean kind of not really. I mean it was like kind of just like stupid little things where like I would try to like read people's like their body language in a sense, seeing if like I could catch them off and notice that they're being weird and like they're kind of on like a script and if I'm not like not following this said script.
What is it that made you realize that you're not being watched? Was it the realization that a movie about this existed.
Yeah, that, and like you know, I tell people, I'm like, oh, you know, kind of a joke. I'm like, hey, I think my life was like the simulation, like scripted, and you all were put in my life, like you were hired to do this. And they're like okay, like they kind of not really guilty because they made me feel stupid about it. So I'm like, ah, I'm just an idiot for thinking this, like it's weird for me to
think this. And then of course when I heard about the Truman Show, I was like, oh, that's how I feel felt not really anymore, but right.
You're saying you say that for the most you said, for the most part, you don't feel like this, And I feel like you wouldn't have said that if some hint of a little something was lingering. What is it that is preventing you from saying I am completely over this.
I guess it's like I don't know, I'm like not a spiritual person whatsoever, but I still think like it's like so cliche, but like everything kind of happens for a reason, and like in the sense of like you know, if it's going to happen. It's going to happen, so not in like the sense that like there's a camera crew, but like I can't really control what's going on. I don't know what's going on around me. But yeah, if that makes sense, I feel like I'm not making sense here.
Well okay, So I mean, is it the idea that life is sort of deterministic and that all of your actions have been pre planned in a sense you're just following out?
Yeah?
Yeah for the most part.
Yeah.
Yeah. Do you feel as though you have free will?
Greg?
For the most part, Yeah, I kind of just feel like I go through the emotions every day and I feel like, I don't know.
I don't know.
It's it's a weird part of my brain that I try. I'm like, I try not to look too much into it because I don't know. And I think that's what makes me spiral, is because.
I don't know.
Have you talked to a real therapist about this stuff?
No, I'm too scared.
Why are you scared?
I'm scared they're gonna tell me I'm crazy, which I probably am.
But why knowing you're afraid of being told that you're crazy or of living in a reality in which you actually are some kind of a you know whatever, you have some sort of mental illness you don't want to face that. If that's the case, yeah, tell me more about why you're afraid of that.
I guess I don't know. I'm like in a place in my life where I'm like cool with what's going on. I'm like finally okay with waking up and being alive. So I feel like I'm scared that if I put something new in my life, Like I'm I've been doing the same thing kind of for the past ever since, so I don't know, five years ago or so, So I feel like if I throw something new into my life, it like makes me crumble because I'm not your new things happening.
If that makes yeah, no, it actually makes a lot of your your I mean, it sounds like it took you a while to get to a point that you're feeling good about and now you're here and you're feeling good and uh, you've reached this like state of equilibrium and you don't want to fuck with it because it's fragile, right, well, does any part of you? And I don't know, I'm not gonna it's really not my place to argue with
that mode of operation. It's really not can I ask you look, let me ask you this, then, let me ask you this. What do you feel like it is right now that is giving your life a state of peaceful equilibrium?
I guess I don't know. Like I finally am, like I said earlier, finishing up school, which was something I never really got into the groove of. But like now I'm like excited to go to school. I'm excited to be doing something that I enjoyed, And for a long time I didn't know what I enjoyed. So like finding things that I'm like genuinely good at and like genuinely enjoy doing is really like a good thing for me.
M hm.
Mm hmm. Well, I'm glad to hear that. It sounds like there's been an upward trajectory for you, that life is getting better.
Yeah, slowly. Okay, here's the thing. This call was like supposed to be kind of goofy, funny, but I'm like pacing around my room.
Nervous, pacing around your room, nervous that you're on the phone, kind of can I ask you this, what what do you what do you desire for the future? Even though you think it's uh, you know, you're just following and it started planned out for me, right right. Yeah, But so let's say you have free will, what would you be doing, Greg, I don't know.
I just I just want to be happy. I want to be with my friends and people I love, doing something I love, you know, waking up, going to a job, or doing whatever that I like to do. Yeah, every day, I just try to find like a happiness if that like sounds so emio. But I just try to be happy because I feel like that. I mean, I don't really care what's going on around as long as I'm happy.
I think that's very legitimate. Let me ask you this, how close is your reality to that? Right now? In this very moment?
Uh, what do you mean exactly?
You described to me being at a job that you like, being with friends that you like. Oh, sure, you're happy right now. You described to me a version of reality. Well, how how close is your reality to what you just described?
Sure? I mean, it's it's getting there. I recently moved away from my family actually, but the school I'm going to is close to my family, so I see my family during the week, but then on the weekends, I'm at like my house that's you know, about an hour or so away, so I don't see my family as much. But you know, I talk to him all the time and call him on the phone face time and whatever. And then for job stuff. I don't really have a
job right now. I'm trying to just finish school. So that's the other thing I was I mean, I'm feeling good about since I'm finishing my degree, I'm feeling good about jobs. Trying not to think too much about.
It though, Greg, is there any other aspect of any of the or anything in particular that you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?
I don't.
I don't think so. I love your podcast. I'm sure everybody says it. I love your podcast, love listening to it.
Thanks all the time.
But yeah, I think that's all I got.
Well, thanks for being a part of it. Thanks for I mean, is there are you still pacing around your room?
Yeah?
You did it, but I have to.
I'm a mover. I'm a mover to think.
Well, it's funny because you're being perceived right now, which seems as though it has been a fear of yours being perceived and yet you're you're handling, At least from where I sit, You're you're being perceived you're handling it.
Well, yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying. Yeah, I know it's so cringey and cliche, but yeah, listening to your pod podcast, it's great because it's like a just a normal gek So it's not really someone with a an opinion that is based off of you know.
What am I trying to say?
You're gidding? Did you watch the movie?
Oh?
No, no, I avoided it.
Would it would if the main character of the movie was wearing a gecko costume, not the main character, the guy who's orchestrating the thing. Would that make it better?
Uh?
I don't know.
Maybe I feel like it would be kind of funny, but it'd be kind of scary.
It be kind of scary. Thank you for calling Greg.
Okay, yeah, I'll let you go. Bye.
Right, Let's figure out what's going on with Michael while Hey Michael, Oh Hello, what's that man?
Uh?
Is this all?
Or? No?
Oh?
Yeah? Who is this?
Oh? Michael?
Michael? It says here that it says here that you just tried crossing a river and your foot slipped and now you're stuck on a rock?
Yeah, okay, So, oh my gosh, it's just crazy. I didn't think I talked to him.
What do you hold on? Okay? Yeah, no, go ahead, go ahead, I'll let you talk.
Okay, okay, I'll just I'll just go through it quick. So I'm just at like a state park sometimes I just go hiking by myself out here, and there was a river and like on the other side, like there's a big like dirt cliff from the river, you know, taking the dirt away obviously, So I'm like trying to cross it because I want to go up there. And there's like a lot of rocks scattered, but not many, so I'm like hopping across them, you know, and my
foot slips and it gets like soaked. So I just like take my shoes and talked off because like I mean, my foot sweat, I might as well just try it. And then basically just after that, I uh, just up there for a while. Yeah, And that's when I tried calling in.
So, so, are you currently stuck on a rock? What does that mean? Like, is your foot stuck somewhere? Is your what what do you mean by you're.
Stuck it's more like I just have nowhere to go. Like the rocks around me are like more than five feet away, and it's just like I can't they're not They're too far to jump. So it's like I'm just gonna have to get in at some point.
Okay, so you're not like stuck, You're just gonna have to get wet.
Yeah, basically, But it's like freezing cool because I'm in you know, North America, northern.
Okay, I thought were I thought we were in some kind of a one hundred and twenty seven hours situation.
No, no, no, it's gonna get really cold.
Okay.
I mean you've been on hold by the way for forty five minutes, so have you just how long have you been on this rock?
For about an hour?
You have surprisingly good cell service in the middle of the woods.
Yeah, I think at and T is just the it's just the.
It's are you Are you really on a rock right now?
Yes?
Are you serious?
I'm serious? I just I don't know. I don't really have anywhere to be. I plan my whole day around this, so it's like I was just gonna come out here until like nighttime, and it's just I don't really have anywhere to go, So I just been listening into the call music.
Do you do this a lot where you just kind of go hiking by yourself and spend the whole day outside?
Yeah?
Do you learn things about it? Much? But I'm various epiphanies.
Yeah, Like.
I mean, just really recently, I was just like, I just did not think this through, Like, even if I did get across, how was I supposed to get back? And so I was like, well, should you always think about should you always think like five steps ahead? Or should you just do it? And I think you just need to bet that balance, you know, sometimes you gotta think ahead and sometimes you just gotta go for it.
Mm hmmm.
I like that. That's a good life analogy.
I know. Yeah, I know for a fact, once I get up to that, once I get across and I go up there, it's just gonna I'm gonna have no regrets, you know, seeing to the prairie on the other side.
What are you looking at right now? Can you describe the scene.
Just up and down the river?
Uh?
A lot, there's I mean, there's a lot of rocks across it, but just really far as like distance as far actually just like this. The part that I was on to get to this rock, there was a lot of little rocks get kind of like start where the river was just barely below the the river bed, you know what I mean, kind of there's a little bit of land and there's a lot of birds on it right now, a lot of robins. Pretty cool. I've just been watching them.
What do you hope to do with your life? Michael?
Basically this, I mean, I'm in college right now, because I mean it's still like you still live in a society. You need money and stuff, so you need like a degree. But I mean, this is really what I live for is just not thinking at all. I've mostly just been writing a lot of stuff down.
Have you been Have you been writing down, like like your thoughts and feelings?
Oh yeah, yeah?
What can I hear the most recently wrote down?
Okay, so m hm.
M hmm.
I'm getting looking at my notebook. Usually just go to spots. I'm trying to become a better writer, so I just try and describe places as best as I can. Mm hmmm, Oh hold on, alright, just I can't.
Mm hmm is your is your notebook? Wet?
No?
I did keep my back pack off the ground thankfully.
Okay, I'm fine.
Do you get it? You find it?
Yeah, A lot of the recent stuff is about school.
Oh yeah, what what what about school?
Just like an English class. I've just been talking to a professor. So I was just trying, like, I mean, just like stuff I gotta do, and like what I'm gonna do for homework. Basically, you said you.
Sound like you got a chill life going on, Michael.
I mean compared to like everyone else that calls in. I mean, I've listened to like your stuff for a year now. I'm yeah, I probably have the most stable life out of everyone.
You.
You're throwing your hat in the ring as the most stable person that has ever called in your you are in the on a rock right now, in the middle of the woods.
Yeah, but mentally, I'm the most stable person that's ever called in here. What makes you say that, Well, just because like everyone in here, everyone that calls in usually has a bunch of life problems stuff. I really don't have any problems other than right now. But I wouldn't see this as a problem. I'd see it as more of an opportunity.
So you're saying that the advice that you would give to every single person who's called into the show is to go find a rock to lay on in the middle of the woods.
I'm not the best advocate. I've never had any mental health issues, so it's like I don't really have sympathy for people with I can't really feel a sympathy for people with that. Yeah, it's a bit of an issue, but.
Well, it's not necessarily about mental health issues. It's just about life, walking around and looking at stuff and thinking things.
Yeah, I mean I just try to not think as much as possible.
Well, Michael, I feel like we can all learn a lot from you. Thank you. Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?
Well I did. I didn't want to say, like, you're like jingle for the end of the Spotify is like so good, it's so catchy. Oh thank you you like did you make that?
That was made by crmony? Okay, anything you want to say about have you ever thought of.
Like having like oh, I'm just gonna probably take a nap out here later, so right to shut down?
So no, no, Well, thank you very much for calling and sharing with us your secrets to a good life, Michael.
No problem, I'll have to the share.
Take care brother.
Yeah.
But you know, maybe he is the most mentally stable person that's ever called in. Maybe he's right, although I feel like the most mentally stable person that's ever called in wouldn't declare themselves to be that, So it's a bit of a catch. Twenty two. I'm gonna go find a rock to lay on.
The cat goes on the line, taking your phone calls every night.
There Bek goes to his eye. He's teaching you aloud in the mid of your life, but he's not really an expert.