Hello.
Hello? Is this sile Hi?
Hi? Hello? What is your name?
My name is Jack?
Jack?
What up?
Jack? Here we are? It's what June? Oh shit, it's June tenth. I've been five years since I've since I first started dressing up as a gecko and talking to people on the phone. I think maybe not exactly, but it was June of twenty twenty that I started doing this, So I didn't think that I would still that I would still be doing this, which is cool that I still am. And now I'm talking to you Jack.
Well man, you know, on behalf of everybody. We all thanks, thank you for like the stuff that you do.
Ah, Jack, what's up with you? Man? Tell me enough of I don't want to say. I can't suck my own dick today. What's going on with you? Jack? How's life?
Well? I mean, you know, I can't complain. It's like crazy times going on. I just went to Araby for the first time, so interesting.
What how was your therapy experience?
Well, man, it was like, you know, an n take session. So we just talked about like why I was there in my life ship like that.
Okay, Well here's I'll I guess I'll say this is you know, this is more of a I think a ponder cast than a advice cast. I don't have any advice for anything, but or maybe I do. I don't know. But do you want to talk about the things that you talked about in therapy on a public podcast or would you rather talk about something else?
Man, we can talk about that if you want, dog, you know, talk good to me.
We talked. Hey, fuck you we can talk about if you want.
You know what, Fuck you, man, we can talk about whatever you want. What do you want to?
Fuck you? Hey? Fuck you will talk about whatever you want.
Fuck? All right, I guess you went all right?
Cool?
Well, I mean I just graduated from a fucking fire academy. Oh so yeah, I'm a fireman. And it's not like a crazy year and a half dog Like I went to went to the military, then I went to officer school and and I I'm a firefighter EMT and all that happened in like a year and a half.
You know, Oh what was what was firefighter school?
Like a man, it's like it's like basic training but like diet, you know, but it was just like a lot of high intensity stuff that was the real challenge and it's like, you know, I live in the South, so it's like hot. You got like sixty pounds on your back, you got like this gear on that insulates from heat, and you're just like steaming in there. You're crawling on the floor and you're like you can't see shit, and you're just ragging shit and trying to find your
way out. So it's pretty fun. And then you know there's also the fire.
Stuff, and uh, well, how old.
Are you, Jack, I'm twenty seven.
Twenty seven, just graduated and now you're a firefighter. What made you want to decide to be a firefighter? I feel like, is that are most firefighters like around that age? Or is that something you get into, like right out of high school?
They usually get around high school. I was like mostly around people of that age, you know.
Yeah, So I guess that's why I'm curious.
Is that?
Is that what made you want to decide to do that? Comparative? Well, later in life, I'm.
Trying to do the thing that you do, except like actually do it, you know, I'm trying to be like an actual therapist.
Mm hmm.
But uh, I don't know. It's like a lot of circumstance. I came back after like army training and stuff, and you know, my parents, you know, they're getting old, and you know they're not They're not from this country, so they have to deal with that topical issue, you know. And I want to get my master's degree. So I was like, well, if I work at Walmart, I'm gonna blow my brains out. And you know, I want to
do something that's important to people. But at the same time, I need time to like get experience so for my master's application. So I just work for I just work for two days and I'm off for four days. So that's the kind of kind of gig that I wanted, you know.
Interesting. Okay, so you're a firefighter. Wait, which one the firefighter job? Is the working for two days job?
Yeah?
Oh okay, you needed some side work to do while you're pursuing your actual degree. Could that's so interesting that being a firefighter is like a part time job. It seems like, I guess enough part time hours. It's a full time job with part time hours.
I mean it's forty eight hours, like straight up, straight up, like it doesn't stop. It's forty eight hours. But once you're done, you're four days off.
So for two days you don't sleep at all.
No, we sleep, but I mean we get woken up by fucking alarms that tells us the like the emergency, you just like go to sleep and then or with throughout the day, any moment you hear due and then like you hear this, lady just tell you what the problem is, you go on a truck and then you try to solve it.
Okay, so you're on call at the fire station for forty eight hours straight, exactly exactly, okay, all right now and now I get it. All right, So it's two days a week where there's forty eight hours where you cannot leave the fire station and you can sleep. But if some shit goes down, you gotta wake up.
Exactly. Yeah, we have to. We have to respond to that.
What do you guys do while there's not shit going down? You just sit around?
I mean we do we sometimes it depends on the shit we we have to do, like daily stuff to maintain the station and equipment the truck. We got to like train. If you don't practice this stuff, you know you're gonna get like you can't perform. So then like you know, that's people's lives. But then after all that shit, like, yeah, I mean, you could be chilling, just like playing the goddamn xbox do whatever the fuck you want. Some people do with side hustles, like on the computer with their
free time. You know, a lot of different stuff.
So you're telling me, and next time I call nine one one for like a fire I might be interrupting somebody's crypto trading.
Yeah, homide, we're deep in doge.
Interesting. What kinds of people are the other firefighters? What's their vibe?
Oh?
Man, it's like a wide variety, wide variety of different people. But like you know, a lot of them are like a lot of them are just like you know, corn corn bread eating. You know, they're pretty traditional American. Some of them have like varying, varying educational stuff like I have a bachelor's degree, and then a person in my same shift he has a master's. Other people only have a high school diploma, you know, just sorts of stuff like that.
Have you Okay, so I know it took a year and a half for you to be do the training, but how long have you been at the job.
Oh dude, that's a.
No.
I'm just saying. It's like, take a year and a half to do all the stuff that I did, like the army stuff and the stuff. But I've only been on the drop for like seven to eight.
Months, And how often have you like, uh, like, what kind of shit has been going down in those seven eight months? Like, are you going to fires every week? No?
It depends on the It depends on the fucking city. Like if you're in a like a bigger metropolitan area, those like fires every day. I lived in like a smaller town, so it's mostly like medical calls. And honestly, dude, like we get like a lot of like fucking uh
listesists and like you know people. I had one where this lady was freaking out because she fucking she was taking like some CBD gummies or some shit like PhD gummies and then her fucking mom like gave her some fucking like violence or some shit the fucking counterair or something, but she was freaking out. I don't know why the fuck you did that though?
That sounds like a Tuesday for me.
Yeah, why was good?
Yeah, well, I mean taking a lot of vivants and then I mean taking a bunch of like getting super why would I mean, I guess that this woman was not operating off of some kind of like medical theory. But why would vivance help calm you down if you're being if you're anxious for that?
Okade, I got I got no clue about that, though. What did you just decide to do that? I just try to do something about it and calming her down, and we just waited for the paramedic to come. And that's as much as we could do at that moment.
Okay, that's okay. Sorry I was interrupting you, But that's what I was going to ask, is like, if I call you and I'm like, yo, my homie's tweaking on vivance and having a panic attack, what do you actually what do you do?
Well? Uh, well, we can't really do much because we do have like no ock zone. We got a narcan. We could do it with opioid stuff and like, you know, if you have like a depressive episode, like we have oxygen in order to like if you do like start hyperventilating, we could chill you out with that. You can make sure that you know you got the right oxygen on you.
I mean, but besides, like any like mechanical issue, if it's like a psychological issue, all we could do is just like be there for you to tell you to calm down, homie.
I mean, what does a depressive episode look like? Like the type of amt.
For Well, I'm telling you. I'm telling you, like, if it's somehow like you have let's just say, like you have asthma, you could do something like that. Like if you're if something that's obstructing your airway, we could do something about that. Like we could do a lot with like airway airway stuff. But like if you're just tweaking out, homie, like I mean, we just try your best, try our best to chill you up.
Mm hmmm. How's the job been for you? Is that like crazy and tough or do you like that schedule?
No, dude, this is the only job, like the true only job that I don't dread going to. It's probably like people say, like most firefighters have something fucking wrong with them because like a lot of them like relish the job and it's like weird to like want want
to go into dangerous situations. Like a lot of the people there that they sit down and then like you know, they watch fucking they watch fucking Netflix and shit and they're just like, man, I wish there was a car accident right now, and I'm just like, I don't wish that, but like other people do. You know, it's like kind of weird.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sit here and say that that doesn't make sense. You know. I think humans we want to, you know, be doing shit. But why But tell me why specifically you don't dread the job and why you love it so much.
Uh well, it's one of the few jobs where you can see the impact of what to do, like directly in front of your eyes. You know, I used to stock I used to work for like the postal service too. I used to be a mailman, and you know, I would fucking give somebody their fucking male and you know, I give them the wave and all that, and uh, you know I see them throw in the trash as it was junk mail. He's just like, man, I guess that, Like, what the fuck am I doing it for?
You know, I don't know why. I don't know why I love that so much. I don't know why that's so funny to me. God damn.
Yeah.
But as a firefighter, just just you're a mailman and you're so proud of your job delivering the mail, and you hand someone their mail and it's junk and they throw it away. That's like, that's like, that's just such a Charlie Brown esque scene.
Dude. I feel like Charlie Brown all the fucking time. Actually, I feel like Charlie Brown a lot.
Why do you feel like Charlie Brown a lot?
Because Charlie Brown tends to try his best, and whenever he has like a moment of optimism, fate happens to just push him down back to the state where he was before. Yeah, he trudges along, you know. That's very Charlie.
Brown asked, mm hmm, what was the last thing you had optimism for that fate?
Uh rejected, Ah, Man, Well, it's I don't want to get political, but it's it's like, you know, the political landscape.
I guess, yeah, you can if you even get political, if you want. Don't really give a shit.
Well, it's uh, it's uh uh, you know, my my parents are like they're they're what you call, like, you know, undocumented and all that.
So that's pretty much sure.
That's the crux of it all. You know this top and you know the very topical topical moment, especially in the state of California.
Sure, yeah, sure, I mean yeah, I mean, I yeah, I understand that. But I guess I guess you can still you trudge along anyway.
Yeah, it's just it's it's very discouraging, you know, when you when you work for a country and like sixty percent of it don't really care for your parents or want them to go home or some stuff like that. You know, it's a bit it's a bit disheartening. But I try, I just you know, I just try my best.
As you say, yeah, no, sure, sure, I mean what as a firefart, you work for like a county, right, a city? Yeah, a city, I'm gonna assume. I mean sure, you know, yeah, if you want to get bigger about it, you can look at it like that, but like what about your your city or forget about that, I mean, just the people whom you who you serve directly, do you feel.
That's why I try not to. That's why I try not to bring that stuff into me with the job. But when I go home, you know, that's you know, that's what I see, frankly, But I don't. I don't work, and that's what I think about, you know, when an emergency happens, I don't think about how this guy is fucking voted. I'm just like, this guy's in fucking trouble. I need to help him out however I.
Can, right of course, of course. Hm, I'm still I'm very I'm very curious on again, still on the thread of you feeling like Charlie Brown all the time.
Well, but that's how I feel like Charlie Brown. It's like, you know, I have two government jobs, and you know, and it seems I am wary of the government, especially in terms of how they view my family. And I try my best to do my job, and I do it well, but when I go home, I just, you know, I get a little bit shaded about it because it's it's really the crux of a lot of my problems
in my personal life is that. So I have this optimism for working for my country in my city and helping people and you know, doing my best, but at the same time that gets shot down by all the political happenings.
You know, yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny. Okay, wait, now, I don't want to get political, but I also kind of do a.
Little bit well that's you get go man.
You know what? Yes, you're right, Yes, you're right, it is it is. What's your name? Jack?
Yes? Jack?
Sorry, it's bad names. I've been on I've been thinking a lot about like uh fucking and now I'm gonna I'm gonna go on a philosophical rant. Oh god, well, like because I think like, like, okay, like like loving America or really like loving anything. I think inherent to like loving something or belonging to something, like true patriotism is is being viciously critical of that which you love and belong to.
You know what I mean, Yeah, of course because you love it.
Because you love it so I so so by being a man who in such a pure way serves his country and yet is critical of it and feel it feels betrayed by it. I don't think you you, I guess from that perspective, you don't live in a contradiction at all. You live in you know. I mean, you're a you're a you're a you're a patriot. You're doing what you're I think should be doing. If you're a patriot.
Well, it's not just for you, know, I don't want to be the stereotype. It's not just for country. You know, there's I do it because it's a it's a thing to do regardless of like you know, the whole country stuff. And you know, I do love my country. It's just like, uh, I mean, you know, if you if you believe life is suffering, which I believe it is, and that everybody suffers, you inherently have compassionate for your fellow man. So you're you have you're prompted to want to quell that suffering
as much as you can. And you know, I know I suffer.
So you know what's so funny is I I forgive me listeners if I referenced this on an earlier podcast, because I'm sure I have. It's one of my favorite Onion articles. Do you know the one I'm talking about? It goes existentialist firefighter delays three deaths, And it's so
funny because like, that's you. That's what you're doing every time you're really you're going out there delaying deaths every day, putting that's that's what it is, don't putting your death closer to now to help delay the deaths of others.
Pretty much as it's pretty much how it is man.
But so I'm trying to I'm trying to think here again we can talk about you. Is this is wait? Is this what you were talking about with your therapist?
Yeah?
You were just okay, yeah.
Yeah, this is what I was talking about.
Tell tell me, tell me more if you want. I got this like kind of conflict you're having internally.
It's honestly, it's just, uh, sometimes I just get fucking mad at society because you know, we we we we deal with all this and it's like greater stuff like too, like we deal with all this cate categorization, and and we just put ourselves in these boxes and we hate ourselves for reasons that don't even make sense, that are just social constructs. But yet here we are in this fucking clusterfuck of whatever the fuck is going on right
now that just makes everybody else suffer. And I and that's what I'm in the middle of it, just like like what do I do? You know?
What did your what did the therapist say?
Well, it was it was like the first session, so that they're just like, well, well, we'll deal with this the next session. But she said, she said, like she understands where my anger is from. She she gets it.
Sure, but then again I didn't pay her, so yeah, it's true if she didn't understand where your anger was coming from.
I mean, is that that it's not that hard. I don't think to understand where your anger is coming from. Wait, hold on, I'm trying to see if I'm trying to see if I understand where I think I understand where your anger is coming from. I mean, yeah, you're in a you're in a crisis about like, oh, I'm working so hard to do all this and then it seems
like nobody really gives a fuck on like a global scale. Yes, but I don't know, I can I just from from my uh personal opinion perspective looking at uh, your life is like your kind is like you're kind of doing
the best that you can. I think, what like one of the subjects I think about a lot when I just sit around and think or whatever, is like like like the the onus of the individual versus the onus of society and because it's like it's like, well, you sit there and you want things to get better, and you you know, if you really want to go crazy mode and not going crazy whatever, if you really want
to you know, do a bunch of ship. Yeah, you can pick some cause that you have and you can protest and you can work on it, and you can you know, vote, of course you can do all these things. But there comes a point where you where like, uh, I'm also I'm also big on like what is within my control and what is not? And there's also a it's like when it comes like societal issues, there becomes a little bit of a point where you're like, when is when is when do I when? When do I
throw up my hands? You know? When do I throw up my hands and go? A lot of this is out of my control and for you you are doing, like to look around. I really hope I'm trying to hone in on a point here is for you to look around, and it's everything you see is on fire metaphorically, and then you go and then you go, Okay, in response to everything around me metaphorically being on fire, I'm going to literally go and put out fires. And I like that.
Yeah, and I like that.
I like that about your life, Jack, That's cool. I think that's really cool. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good response to fighting the metaphorical fires is to fight real ones. I think that's a good Uh, that's a good vibe.
That's a good point, man, very good point.
Do you got do you? Is there an Xbox in the fire station? Uh?
I mean sometimes people bring it. I mean I can bring my own PlayStation. But yeah, what do.
You What do you got on the what do you got on the PlayStation?
Ah? Man, people are gonna uh dude, I played fucking overall Watching Dark Souls. Those are the fucking games that I play.
Okay, why why why did you think that people would be upset about that? Millions and millions of people play those games.
I don't fucking know. I don't know. I just thoughted up because it's just such a juxtaposition of two games just seems weird.
Overwatching Dark Souls. Yeah, what is Uh? I don't really know much about Dark Souls. I just know it's like, I know, it's I know it's hard. That's what I know about it.
Yeah, Like one, like Overwatching, like it's a very cutesy game and all that, and then like fucking I played like, well I'm born now going to the beginning of like Dark Souls, like this gritty, like gothic, fucking fuck you kind of a game.
Are the other are the other firefighters also like inexistential crisises or like what do you think is going on in their bro what do you think is going on brains?
Well, everybody has like you know and apparently like a special human experience, So I don't really know what the fuck's going on. But a lot of them are like, you know, I think they just go home, have a few beers, like fucking watch sports and just you know, people like live with their families and just big chilling until like the next time they got to come here. But who knows what they have in their own personal life.
You know, how's how's your personal life gone?
You know, it's you know, I did. I have been fucking complaining for about like fucking thirty minutes. But like comparatively, like I live a pretty good life, like I do, Like I have a good as you know, I got a fiance, I have a bachelor's degree. I have a kick ass job. People say, like it's one of the greatest jobs people can have. You know, I have the benefits of military benefits and these benefits, I actually own a home and my parents live in it and all that.
I mean, you know, prices are going up and fucking I I'm broke as ship. But like comparatively to a lot of people, I mean, I'm love. It's good, you know, but sometimes when I yes, no, go ahead. But if they you know, the point of contention here, it's just like, uh, you know, I here's here. Let me tell you the truth. I would give all the ship that I've ever done away,
like all the all this ship. I would give it all away as my parents truly had had like it had the shot to be citizens of these United States, you know. So that's that's all. That's all they've ever wanted ever since they got here. M I'd throw it all with m hmm, I saw it all. M hm.
Where can I ask where they're from?
Uh? Therefore south as a border?
What is the like actual I was reading a little bit about this, like what what What is the actual process of becoming a US citizen?
It depends on like and and now I'm talking about a subject that I'm not an expert that so I mean, if I'm saying something, if I've been wrong, you know, excuse me. But under their circumstances where they came here, you know, illegally, and all that in the traditional sense, they have this penalty of ten years where they would have to go back to their home country and then they would have to wait that out and then particularly
apply it again. However, since you know, I am a whe where I am a member of the United States Military, I I've put two petitions to Homeland Security for a parole in place, which means that they'll take off that ten year penalty and for one year they cannot be they cannot be deported. But it's in that system, and it's gonna take like a year and a half and it's only you know, I still have a year to wait. So that's that. That's where I'm at. Mm hmm.
Okay. So you as a military okay, sorry, hold on, I'm trying to piece together your life. You you have a government job as a firefighter and then a government job in the military, okay, okay, And so as a member of the military, you are eligible to like petition for your parents to get citizenship.
Yep, That's basically what I'm doing.
And there's a bunch of bureaucratic bullshit that is keeping that in the system for a year, so your parents still are dealing with insecure status for like a year, yes, yes, but then what happened and are we and after that year is up, they.
Don't make a decision. They'll make a decision. You know, not all positions are guaranteed. It's like case by case basis, and who knows, Like if you know, the current administration wants to change the certain those certain qualifications and can make it either easier or more difficult. You know what I'm saying.
Mm hmmmm what yeah? What are they? You said? It's a case by case basis, Like do you do you have any idea what they.
It looks like, Uh, criminal background mostly and like you know, like whether you're on welfare or not, the stuff you've done.
But I think, oh, sorry, Jack, your phone fucked up again?
Oh sorry, I said, whether you pay taxes? Criminal history, Uh, the stuff you've done, whether you can do in any other crimes stuff like that. M hm.
And how long how long have your parents been in the States For.
As long as I've been alive. I think it's probably like thirty years now.
God damn, that's crazy after that long, really, Like that's crazy to me that like after that long it's still I had.
To sign a contract for them to get a shot at it, and it is a shot.
That's crazy. So but if you aren't, if you aren't, like if your son's not in the military, like, what the fuck do you do?
I guess fucking get a million dollars and then fucking do that?
What can you can you buy citizenship?
That's what the current administration is talking about. I'm not sure if it's a million or what. It's some sort of exorbitant amount, but he's been talking about it. It's like some sort of gold card or whatever.
Huh yeah, do you have siblings? Yes, how are they doing?
Uh? Well, you know one of them is doing the same situation as my parents, and then you know another one's just like trying to start their own life.
So wait, you have a sibling who was not born here, right? And then do they and they have to deal with the exact same shit that your parents do.
Yeah, it's even worse because I was talking to him. I talked to an immigration lawyer to deal with all this stuff, and he said if I wanted a petition for him directly, it would take thirteen years.
What the fuck?
Yep, So apparently one of my parents would need to get naturalized first, and then he can get a shot at it.
When he says it will take thirteen years, does that mean like he has to go back to where he came from and then wait thirteen.
Years thirteen years in the United States?
Okay, so he'll spend thirteen years in the United States, but he doesn't become it. But it requires thirteen years to be a citizen.
Not a citizen, he would like get the same like petition, like parole in place, like it'd be like that same thing, and then he would get a shot at being a naturalized citizen. It's not like it's not an automatic picket. There's steps.
But during those thirteen years, like motherfuckers, can't just think it happen, anything can happen to him.
Yeah, damn.
And you said your other sibling is like not he's that kind of doing their own thing.
Yeah, he's just doing their own thing.
Are you close with them? Yeah that's cool.
Yeah hmm.
And what and your therapist didn't tell you anything.
I was talking to them about it, and they said I was justified in my anger. And I was telling them basically like how I'm motivated by existential spite about it. And I was telling them like, you know, I don't think this is a healthy mechanism to motivate myself. And they were just basically like, uh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, there's healthier ways to do it. And then we're gonna talk.
We're gonna work that through. Basically, they said, like, you know, it's just an intake, so they're gonna we're gonna work through those negative.
I've never heard that word before. Existential spite.
Yeah.
Can you explain what that means to you? Existential spites?
Yeah, I'll explain it. Given the situations that I've, like, you know, been through, where like all this shit piles on you, and you know, you're backed in a fucking corner, and it seems like the fates themselves have vendetta towards your life. Like it just seems that the only way to move forward is to hate, Like the position you're in, your very own hate. You should hate the fates, like you should get revenge on the fates for doing this to you by living a good life. That's how I feel about it.
Okay, a couple of things. What I I don't think I have a strong I don't think I have a strong understanding of what absurdism is but I think it's something kind of like this. But also actually, what I was going to say before you explained existential spite is like I feel like, maybe sorry, maybe I'm being maybe this is just like semantics or whatever, but like existentialism
or maybe this is nihilism. Uh, just the the idea that they're even the idea, Okay, the idea that there even are fates to spite, I feel like, is not like do you believe in fates? Like do you believe that there are like forces that exist like God, like.
I make I'm agnostic, so I don't really know.
So you believe there might be fates that exist that are that hate you.
Sometimes it feels like that, Oh you know, it's a ridiculous thing to think about, but sometimes it feels like that, Like you know when you know when you want to you want to hate something and there's nothing for you to hate, so you just invent.
Something and you said it is and you said you believe it's unhealthy, Yeah.
To be motivated by by fight because it makes you hate everything.
Okay, that idea, I'm the idea. Basically I kind of believe through operating like this in my life and through kind of observing ship and talking to people in my real life and on this podcast and stuff. It might not be this binary, but like you can kind of act. I think out of fear or love and through and it's dynamic and people are dynamic and narratives are dynamic.
And yeah, all that, and I've personally lived probably lived most of my If you took everything I've ever done in my entire life, I would say a lot of it is fear, for sure. Yeah, hold lot, I'm actually thinking. I was you know what I was gonna. I was gonna try to make a joke and I was going to say something like wiping. I don't know if I wiped my ass out of fear of love. But now I'm gonna challenge myself to decide if I wipe my ass out of fear of love. I think I wipe
my ass out of love. I think I wipe my ass out of love because I love well the fun. You could wipe your ass out of fear of love. You could have You could be afraid that you have a stinky asshole and there are the cancer that people will judge you. You can you can be wiping your ass.
Because instead of like up and down.
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you or you call wipe your ass out of love because you love yourself and so you want to clean an asshole. I should, Yes, I I think I wipe my ass out of a fear of discomfort when I'm like walking around and I have shit in my ass. But you can also But either way, you wipe your ass either way with a motive behind. It didn't matter that much anyway, Okay, fear and love and your life is typically I think gonna be better the more you can operate from love and
not fear. Although again in my personal life, I feel as though I have gotten to a lot of places that I enjoy. I have gotten a lot of good results via things that I did operating out of fear. And I was pretty miserable. I'm pretty miserable anytime I'm operating out of fear, I'm pretty fucking miserable. And when I look back, part of me is like, and this is something I can I can only come to looking back.
But when I look back, I'm like, oh, I probably could have gotten similar results if I did the same exact shit, but I operated from a place of love, you know, because look you're gonna go to work and you're gonna put out fires, and you're gonna try to live your best life and you're gonna, you know, try to be a good boyfriend or you know, exercise or be a good son to your parents, or you're gonna do all the ship anyway, like the the the action,
the actions are the actions themselves. They're like objective. So if you're gonna do it, you might as well reframe it and be doing it from a place of you know, I love helping people, I love my parents, I love myself all that, you know. Stupid ship. You know, I'm trying to get I'm trying to get more on that train. I'm realizing this, Yeah, because I because yeah, that's the thing. Despite the doing thing, I always thought I've always thought
doing things that a spike was really fucking stupid. Like uh like I'm uh like when you you ever, you ever on Instagram and you see a thing where it's like a guy with a cool watch and he's like yeah and he's like and he's like he's like you got and he's like you got a lot of people to prove wrong. Today, I'm like, what a stupid, fucking reason to do anything to prove someone wrong. You know, it's so fucking stupid, really stupid reason to do anything.
But also love, I think, like you know, love can take a lot of different forms, you know, like it's not doesn't have to just necessarily be like positive. Yeah, maybe I don't know. Existential spite you do, you feel so you feel that way right now? You're living out of spite. But you're trying to spite fate. But you don't even believe in fate. So how so you're trying to spite something that you don't even believe.
I spite in spite, in spite of your own circumstances. Like you hate said, since you hate the position you are in now, that motivates you to try to beat it.
You know, yeah, yeah, yes, okay, sorry everyone, I have to give some context real quick. Halfway okay, two seconds ago, while we were recording the computer, my computer shout out and it's still might shut out, who knows, But so I I I had to, like I spent like an hour fixing it, and then I called Jack back and so now we we so in in the in a split second that you that between whatever I was just saying, before and now there has been in real time an hour.
But sorry, Jack, and this is weird. I'm gonna try to get back into our conversation because what the thing, Okay, the thing that got cut out that I wanted to tell that I told you but that I wanted to record, was that, yeah, I've personally, I would be lying, is that I would be lying to you if I told you that I haven't in my own like personal life achieved certain like empirical outcomes via by being fueled by like hating myself or like hating my life or whatever,
you know, Like i'd it would be wrong to say that that's not an effective fuel, but that I also I but that I also kind of believe that I'm also I try, I try to be like optimistic. That it's that that you that it is possible to achieve like effective results that you want by not hating yourself and operating out of some form of of love. You know, it feels weird to get back into this conversation with
you after a full hour of losing momentum. But but but I know you were talking a little bit about uh, yeah, like going against like fate. You know, do you do you do you do you so you feel like do you feel like you're working in spite of fate?
Yeah, because like it feels like my life the cards have always been stacked against me, given like my demographical makeup, you know, like, you know, I'm a first generation American. I'm the first person in my family who's like got a college degree, been in the military, who's been a firefighter. And it's you know, it's sometimes I feel like I don't really belong in these places because I think of
like because like, let's just give you this instance. I was working with somebody like during the summer, like in construction, and they were like the same demographic that I was. You know, we were both laborers, with the differences that I was an American citizen than this guy. He came from some you know, he came from some of my Hispanic country. He didn't have like any citizenship or anything. He couldn't speak English. We only spoke in like Spanish,
and that was that was the difference. So I I talked to myself about, man, I could this could happen to me? You know, I could be that guy, And there's so many people like that around here in this country. That that's what I mean by like things are like stacked up against me, that it's like the fates. It's that circumstance.
Mmm. I also wanted to ask, like, I guess with that uh operation from existential spites like moving forward, what do you what do you hope to accomplish out of that? Out of that spite?
Well, that's why I'm like going to the to the counselor if I went today. It's because I know, I know, in my heart of hearts, like it's not you know, it's not a healthy thing to do, but like I've done so much with it, like like even like talking about it right now, I guess you're like pumped up because it's it's like it's like self defense mechanism. You know, when when the card is stacked up against you and
you're trapped in that corner. You're trapped in that corner, the only thing you want to do is fight, right, and if you fight all the time, you just get so like tired and defeated. And sometimes I feel.
Like that, you know, you know, maybe you know, actually what you just said brings up kind of a thing where I'm like, uh, because again I'm trying I try to be optimistic that you can achieve good results via like being fueled by I guess more like traditionally healthy things. What you just said was interesting because it's like, well, okay, maybe like I'll show them, I'll prove them wrong or you know, I I I want to work in spite
of shit. Like it is an effective fuel when balanced, you know, you know, like like like maybe it's an effective fuel when two point and then after a certain point become it's like maybe finding the balance. Maybe maybe that fuel itself is fine, but it's like finding the balance of how much how much to hit that gas pedal? You know, maybe maybe maybe that's it.
Well, part of me is afraid of letting that part of me go because it's been such a motivator, like and it's fucked up to think about that, Like me being like happy and healthier may make me less motivated. Like that's that's the thing that scares me. Like what if I can't go anymore? You know, I get complacent.
I I only have again, I only I only have my own data to work off of. I will say that like since I like for me, like like since since I've been feeling better, I kind of care. I care a lot less about, like certain success metrics, which I think does lead to them going down. But I found new metrics to care about, and those metrics are going up, and like personal mental health and happiness becomes its own metric, and then that goes up. You know, but it is if but but you know, it is
hard to It is hard to tell. My strategy was that, like UH, I would hate myself for a certain amount of time until I got to a certain place, and then once I was there, I would try to learn how to not hate myself.
But the thing is is that it never stops. Like you always want you always want to There's always a new.
Thing, Yes, there is always of course, you know, there is always gonna be a new thing. But I don't know, I don't know. I was talking to him, Do you have any I don't know how. I don't know how. You don't strike me as an extremely online guy, But do you do you know who doctor K is?
Yeah?
Yeah, yeah. I was on his podcast like four years ago and I was like, I don't know why, but I was watching a little bit of it the other day and in it, I'm talking about UH, and he's kind of like a like he's a little he's like a spiritual dude. And we were talking about like the
concept of like there, you know, like once I get there. Yeah, And I was kind of saying like, I don't know if there is a there, and he was like, yeah, I don't think there is a there either, And if I went back on there, I would be more skeptical. I looa dude, I dude, it's all this is all theory crafting. But I low key think I low key think there might be a there. I don't have enough data, but I low I low key think there might be a there.
Like self actualization there or Nirvana there.
Uh no, not nothing like that, but like, uh like for me, my my version of there was like like for the for the past five years, at any given time, if you asked me how I was doing, I would
probably say, like, I'm okay or whatever. But I would only for like a little only only sparsely, would I say I'm doing great and for the past and only I'm dude, Jack, I'm like only as of less than a month ago, maybe like three and a half weeks, four weeks, could I if you asked me how I was doing could I say I'm actually doing great and for me fantastic, and I appreciate you saying that, and for me, that's there. And I never felt that way before, and now that I feel that way, I'm like, yo,
am I there? But then this morning I was like feeling kind of like shit, and I was like okay, but and then I was like, okay, there can't be there, Like I can't. There's no fucking way. I'm like done with adversity or anything forever. Like I think just like all of that shit is kind of like you know, depression or whatever the fuck is like inherent to the human experience. But so I don't know, maybe there's no
a there. But I was at least for three weeks ago, at least as a three weeks feeling like there is a there. So I don't know. I don't know. I'm just yeah, sorry, go ahead.
What if there like actually exists? But like it's like the same idea of like like Buddhists, like zen Buddhism, like nirvana, like you can always have it, but you you need to get it, but if you if you search for it too hard, like it push it repels itself, like you could have it, like like an oasis, like a cloud moving across the sun or something like. You can always have it, but if you search for it too much, if you try too hard to get it, if you like instead, if you just allow yourself to
be there, it'll be there. M hm.
Oh man, No, I know, I know what you're talking. I've like, I've I've thought about that shit because I know that that's the whole Buddhist thing of like desire is suffering, so if you don't desire, you will not suffer. But I always, I always felt that was so paradoxical, you know.
Yes, the way I took it, Yeah, the way I took it is that it's like an ideal, you know, that's the ideal of what you want to do. And of course ideals, like ideals are perfect and we're not. But if you can like train yourself to do that, you can you can have like at least a little bit of it.
Oh, yes, I like that. It's it's it's an ideal to be striven for, not necessarily. It is an ideal to be striven to go towards not necessarily, it's not necessarily that Buddhism is saying, like Hey, this is a state that exists, you know. Actually, Jack, actually Jack, sorry Jackie there. Yeah, actually Jack, I don't know who was. I don't know who was just calling you to tell you that you gotta go. But actually I'm looking at my computer right now and I've got like probably sixty
seconds before it craps out again. So I'm gonna dude, I really I really appreciate. First of all, I really appreciate you should wait call letting me call you back after an hour to finish this conversation. Sorry, I know that was kind of annoying, but again, I really appreciate this whole conversation, man. And I hope I hope you get whatever it is that you're going after. And man, is there is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?
Nah? I just do for you, man, Just just I hope. I hope you stay there. I really do you. I hope you there, and I'm trying to and I'm trying to get there, you know, and to everybody is like in a similar position like me. You know, just do your best, you know. I I certainly empathize and feel for you, but you know, just as as you said, just try to do everything with love as best as you can.
Thank you, Jack. I'll let you get back to whoever is whoever is yelling.
At you, all right, have a good night.
Get hey, Thank you Jack, take care man.
Thank you Yo.
That was that guy was sick. Okay, hold on, I want to record this post call thought, but my computer is is about to he is about to get fucked. But now, that conversation was awesome. I liked that conversation so much that I called Jack back after an hour so we could finish it. But I hope he's doing all right. And I don't know if there's a there. I don't have enough data. I've only felt I've only felt mentally healthy for three weeks, so I don't know
if there's a there yet. But we'll see. We'll see how long it goes. I'm optimistic. I think I think there might be a there. I don't know. I don't know anything. All right, my computer is about to die. Okay, hold on, hello, folks, it's Lyle here. That's the end of this episode. But get this, I'm releasing a bonus episode this week. That's right, an entire extra hour of the podcast that you can listen to by becoming a Premium member of Therapy Gecko over at therapy Gecko dot
supercast dot com. Supercast subscribers get access to bonus episodes, They get a completely ad free podcast feed of the regular show, they get recordings from my live shows, members only streams, and they help support my ability to continue doing this podcast. So here's a clip from this week's members only bonus episode, good luck watching a bunch more Dogs Die. I hope that I was going to say, I hope you enjoy it, but whatever. I hope that I hope that it doesn't fuck you up too much.
But you but I assume that if you go to be a veteran veterinarian, but maybe there's a part of you that likes to watch dogs die because you go into it knowing that you're going to do that a lot. So I wanted to leave room to wish that upon you, if that's what you wanted, If that makes any sense. If you want to hear this full conversation, you can sign up to become a premium member at therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com, or find the link in the
episode description that's therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com. All right, I have nothing else to say. Therapy goes on the line, taking your phone calls every night. Therapy goes to his side's teaching you aloud to the men.
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