Hi, is this Franklin?
Hello?
How are you doing? Franklin?
You know I'm doing very good.
How you get I'm doing good myself. I love your voice. You have a great diaphragm.
Yeah, I've worked a lot on it in my lifetime, I guess. So that's that's very nice of you to say.
Really you've worked on your voice. This is not a natural thing you were born with. This is something that you had to put active effort into.
Well, I mean partly yes and partly no. You know, like I feel like, compared to most people, I have to make quite a conscious effort as to what I'm saying. You know, like I've always said that most others are on like a driving and automatic when it comes to communication, whereas I'm driving a manual car. But also, you know, like I've been told since I was like thirteen, I'm a deep voice. So that's one thing I actually a British.
I'm not like faking my accent. That's not one way that I've worked my boy.
So I like what you said just now. You said that most people are when they're when they're talking, they're driving an automatic, But you're driving a manual, so you're putting a lot of effort and thought behind each annunciation of each letter of each word exactly.
Not only that, but like I used to be a big theater kid, and like all the time my drama teacher would she'd just like be so serious about enunciation and stuff, and like I definitely indoctrinated that, And and annunciation is something that's quite important to me, isn't that?
It exhausting though, having to think so much about every single thing that you say, Oh.
Very tiring. It's like so unbelievably tiring. Like scripting is a really bad thing for me because I literally can't go into a conversation without like preparing what I'm going to say and what I think the other person is going to say.
Hmm, okay, let's dive into that here. Scripting so you script out to the best of your ability, using the knowledge that you have available to you almost all of your own reactions.
Yes, definitely, And like a lot it's really bad because a lot of the time I will just try and script a conversation, and if I can't, if it doesn't go the way that I want it to in my head, I will just completely avoid the interaction overall. And it leads to not the best of communication.
But so much of conversation is not just preparing what you're going to say beforehand. It's responding in real time to what the other person is going to say. So how do you account for that when you don't know what the other person is going to say?
It's so interesting because that is such a huge thing in conversation For me, is like I hate having to react to what people are going to say, especially if they're like telling me a story that I again, it feels so annual that I'm forcing myself to be like, oh, that's so interesting, or like it feels like life is just this huge improv show. And that's why I like improvisation and theater that has helped me a lot, because it's all about like trusting your own instincts and like
saying the first thing that comes to mind. But it's so much easier said than done.
Why do you think you script so much of your conversations? Where do you think that desire comes from.
I think it's like, because I've had so many failed social interactions in my life that I'm able to recognize this pattern of what people expect from me in conversation slash what my abilities in conversation are? I guess, and you know, like I really if I have a social interaction that goes not well, I will fixate on it literally the whole day and be like, you're such an idiot, like why did you say that?
And you said this that that this fixation on social interactions is something that happens to you to this day.
Yes, definitely.
Let me ask you this, when you say a failed social interaction, what does that mean? What is the rubric for failure in your eyes?
Basically, Like with failed social interactions, a lot of the time, it's just to do with like how I was acting in the conversation and that like sometimes I can just be really awkward and say things that aren't like too socially acceptable, but they were in my head or a lot of you make a joke.
Can we get an example of something that you can think of in recent memory that you said that in your head was socially acceptable, but when you said it, it wasn't.
Like a concrete example. I'm not sure. I'm sure I can think of like an exact quote of what I said that Usually it's when I overestimate how mentally ill. Others are like, I forget that not everyone is mentally ill, and I will just kind of like trauma down to something in conversation and people will be like, oh, that's weird, and I'm like, fuck, I wish I never said anything interesting.
All right, So you feel like you might be, uh, what they like to call an oversharer.
Yeah, yes, I have such an issue with oversharing interesting.
Have you spoken to a real therapist about this? I'm curious.
Yeah, quite a few.
What do they tell you?
That's the thing is that I don't know a lot of them don't really want to focus on that aspect of my mental health. A lot of them just try. And it's so hard to put into words, but like basically, like all this stuff to do with communication is to do with my autism basically, and therapists never seem to
want to talk about autism. It's like very frustrating because and it's also very invalidating because you know, I mentioned something and it like affects almost every aspect of my life that they just want to talk about, like oh, well, have you been sleeping well or did you eat well or something like that. I'm just like, yeah, I don't really care, Like, you.
Know, so you've tried to bring up your autism to therapists and they won't talk to you about it.
Yeah. Yeah, especially before I was like diagnosed and stuff. And when I was trying to get diagnosed, the therapists just like were really iffy about it and didn't want to get into that process or help me with it at all. It's like, why so many people self diagnosed with autism because therapists just like aren't helpful about it and they make the process for getting diagnosed really difficult.
M let's bring up what you wrote here on the screening notes because I find this interesting. It says here that you figured out that you were autistic after a bad trip on mushrooms.
Yeah, what was that? Yeah, So it was the first time I'd ever done psychedelics, and it was my first year at UNI, and I the first mistake I made was that I took shrooms the same day that I actually had a therapy session literally like half an hour before, and it was not a very good one, and so I was not exactly in the best headspace. But then we took the shrooms and I didn't like see anything crazy. That's the thing, Like I was still getting visuals. People's
faces looked weird. Everything was like wavy and stuff like that. But the first thing I started to notice was how much I was overthinking, and also how much I didn't want to be around other people. And like, I started having this huge identity crisis and I literally couldn't stop fixating on it because I was like, I realized that I basically just replicate the personality and persona of whoever I'm talking to or interacting with, And I was like why do I do that? And I kept thinking, like
why do I do that so much? And it's because I have this like deep rooted fear of people finding out that I'm not normal, and so, you know, and it also goes back to when I was like a little kid, and I was also a non normal kid, and you know, I figured out from a young age that the best way to get other people's validation is by making them laugh, and so you know, from then on,
I became like class clown and stuff like that. And so yeah, like when I was having a bad trip, I was overthinking so much and the only way to come myself down was by doing like really repetitive and like stimulating things, like we were watching music videos. Like I just kept putting on music videos because you're getting that auditory stimuli and the visual stimuli, which is really cool.
I want to talk about really quick before I move on, because I this peaked my curiosity and I don't want to move on from it. You said that you mirror the personality of whoever you're talking to, and you believe that you do that because you are insecure about your own personality because you believe it is weird. Is that accurate? Yeah, why do you believe that your personality is weird?
Well? I was bullied a lot when I was younger, in like primary school and stuff. Kids, You know that all the time they would tell me that I was gay before I even I knew what gay meant, or before I was even like thinking about sexuality and stuff. Because I've never I've never really had I've never perceived the world or anything in like a gendered way. That's also another thing to do with autism. There's that like a lot of the time ORTO two people don't perceive
gender norms in that sort of way. And that led to me, you know, I was always like, why is it girly for me to, you know, sing Beyonce, Why is it girly for me to paint my nails or like pretend to be a mermaid with my friends. I never understood the concept of cooties. I was like, cooties are so stupid that literally doesn't make any sense. Even as like a six year old, I was like, why
can't I be friends with girls? And so yeah, all the time, I was bullied a lot, and that led to a lot of like me, especially around other guys. I would feel this really strong and toxic urge to like perform masculinity. And the thing is, I've gotten so much better over time at not doing that, but I still I still mask, and I still basically just give the person I'm interacting with whatever they want. Basically, Well, let.
Me tell you this. And I'm not a real therapist, and maybe this is a reductive response to to trauma, but I'm gonna hail Mary. I'm gonna say it anyway. I'm you know, when when was this bullying taking place? When you were like what ten, thirteen, twelve?
Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, around like preteenage and you're and you're.
You're twenty years old, now, yes, you know, thirteen year old, twelve year old, eleven year old boys, they're fucked up and they're a little mean, and it's not a it's not a fun environment to be in when you're autistic, when you have all these sort of things that you're going through, and you know your your community of peers is not emotionally mature enough to, you know, know how to accept you for as you are. And that's a
fucking bummer, man. And I get that now that you're twenty, now that you're an adult, you have access to the entirety of the world, which I do believe is filled with people who are understanding and caring. And I think that you know, in this one life that you have, Franklin, you should feel empowered to let go of how you were treated when you were younger and be however the fuck you are. Definitely, what do you think about that? What is your response to that idea?
Yeah, Like, I want to do that so much. I literally like that's the dream and I'm working on it. And you know that's why I'm like going through therapy and stuff and I literally just got diagnosable to this.
You got you finally got diagnosed by an actual by a mushroom thing.
Yes, exactly. And the beautiful thing about it is that one of the most helpful resources wasn't like the therapists or like the Internet and stuff like that. It was other autistic people that helped me realize that I was autistic because I've and from that, I've formed like such a huge community and safe net of autistic people on
Tiptop that I'm friends with or that follow me. And it's honestly just like really crazy because I didn't know that there were other people out there that think like me. I always thought I was just broken and everyone else thought it the same way, and so it's very comforting that And like, autism is literally like the most specific thing ever, Like there's some symptoms that are just so fucking specific that I'm like, that's crazy that we share that in common.
Well, I'm a big fan. Let me tell you this. I'm thinking about this right now as I'm talking to you. I've taught We've talked to other autistic callers on the show who have like expressed uh like anxiety over how
they're presenting themselves in social situations. But like the other autistic people have talked to on the show, but very good at at at talking, like they know when to pause and let me speak there if they're good listeners, Like it's it's I almost think that the the this whole thing that you're doing where you're you're putting a lot of thought and effort into social interactions. I know why it's exhausting. It sounds like it's exhausting, but it's
it's it's it's working. I mean, even this conversation I'm having with you right now, you know, I wouldn't think that that you were socially awkward at all.
No, definitely. I I think it goes back to like what I was saying that with, like, it's not that autistic people don't understand a lot of social norms and stuff like that, it's that they don't come naturally to us. And that's the whole thing with like being on manual versus automatic, is that I work a much more conscious effort. Yes, exactly.
Yeah hmm. So you've been able to find a community of other artistic people went on TikTok and read it.
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
That's awesome man. So I mean, how do you feel about your trajectory in terms of what we talked about, of you eventually coming to terms with who you are and being a little bit more comfortable expressing that.
I think it's it's very interesting because I think I'm very much on the trajectory of doing that, but there's steps that I need to take. Like one of the biggest steps initially for me was breaking up with my ex girlfriend, and I didn't realize how much I was, you know, performing for her and changing my personality to cater hers. And I think the next step, honestly is like moving out of my family's house, because like, I love them so much, but they just don't really understand.
And they also they simultaneously know I'm autistic that they also don't really want to accommodate for me in any sort of way, And you know that's just tiring.
Sure, sure, well, Franklin, I I'm really I'm glad to hear it seems like you've been on quite a journey, and it seems like you're on an upward trajectory with this. You definitely seem like you're very aware of all these issues and you're currently working to fix them. I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know, but you don't need to perform for people. I love, man. You know,
people are so doom Marie about the internet. But I love that you can go from you know, being thirteen and just having all these people around who just don't and don't even want to try to understand you, to finding a community of people where you go, Oh the fuck, I'm not crazy. This is a real thing that other people are experiencing as well. I'm glad you were able to find Yeah.
It's useful, Yeah, definitely.
Frankly, is there anything you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?
Yes, I have a question for you, Lyle.
You're from Maryland, right, Oh yeah, I'm from Maryland.
Why what's your opinion on the flag of Maryland? Uh?
You want my real answer?
I do? Uh?
You asking me this question is the very first time I have ever thought about the flag of Maryland.
That's what everyone says. What I them about flags?
It says Oh, it says here that you have an obsession with flags too, Yes, a.
Very strong obsession with flags.
What's what's your opinion about the flag of Maryland.
I think it's awful. I think it's one of the worst flags I've ever seen. And it also has no symbolism or meaning or significance to Maryland. The only significance is that the people of Maryland love that flag like they love that flag. And I have been like bullied on the internet before because I said that Maryland was the worst state flag and literally the whole state like hoped on in my comment section and with like sending death threats and stuff. But it's just people.
People were, actually people are sending you death threats over hating the Maryland.
Literally, people were trying to like dock me.
All right, well I will I will not be fucking with the flag community anytime soon. No, I am personally, I'm personally not offended by your slander of the Maryland flag because, like I said, I never think about it. But what, Okay, so you have an obsession with flags, What is in your opinion the best flag?
Well, that's such a good question. My personal favorite flag is either between Sicily or Uruguay. Basically, a flag has to have five things. It has to have meaningful symbolism, two to three colors, no lettering or seals. It also there's a couple other things that they're like the five rules of vexillology, and basically like almost all of the state flags break those rules. Like that's why I just hate most of the state flags. That Maryland takes the number one spot for my least favorite.
Well, I don't have a five point rubric, but I will say I like the California flag because it has a bear.
On it, you know, and I respect that. I respect that, but I personally don't like the Californian flag because it has a bear on it. And what does that say about California? You know, it's the Golden State, and there's not even any gold on the flag. There's so much more you could represent about California's beautiful landscape, about its booming economy, about its history, and yet they were just like, oh, there's a lot of beers here, let's put a beer on the flag.
And although we disagree about flags, I will not send you any death threats. And I appreciate you calling in and sharing all of this with us. It's been an awesome convo.
Yeah, it's been a lovely conversation, and I appreciate our willingness to agree to disagree. That's just really about human's ability, right there.
Hey, I have a good night, Franklin, you too, have a good one. I really have not thought about the Maryland flag. I gotta check where I you know what I should have asked him. I should have asked him where people are arguing about flags. I want to go on r slash flags and just see if it's a fucking blood bath of people saying horrible things to each other because of the disagreements of whether Wyoming or South Dakota has a better shade of blue on their flag.
That's a little I know about flags. I'm pretty sure there's no blue in the Wyoming state flag or the North Dakota state flag. All right, I'm gonna look this up really quick. Okay, it is kind of blue. It has a bull. And then let's see it with's South Dakota. That one has a bull on it. That looks kind of cool. Oh fuck, they do both. They are both blue. Holy shit, I'm a genius. They're both blue. That was a complete guess. That was a complete and other guess.
And I will say South Dakota's shade of blue I like a little bit better. Oh, North Dakota. North Dakota and Wyoming both have similar shades of blue. Okay, I'm starting to become a little bit obsessed with flags myself. I see where Franklin is coming from. Hello, hey, yeah, this gino?
This is he? How you doing?
Man?
G You know it says here that you once masturbated at the Vatican, Yes, sir, that is correct. Says here that you have a goal in life to masturbate in as many different countries as possible.
If I am able to do it, I would absolutely love to.
Okay, how many? How many different countries have you masturbated in? So far?
Five?
Which countries are?
France, Italy, the Vatican because the Vaticans can have its own country, United States? And London? Well, London is my country, you can't.
Did you did you masturbate in Rome?
Yes?
Okay, so that's Vatican, Rome, France, Italy, US and England. So that's that's six. You masturbated in six countries.
In Italy?
Wait? Hold on, mm hmm? Did I did you say Italy already?
Yes?
Okay, I think I did. I don't. I you know, I know, I have this fucking podcast where I talk to people and stuff, but I just don't. I don't know anything, and I don't care. I don't care the people are, like, oh, Rome is a thing. I don't care where anything it is. I don't care what anything is. I don't care how you pronounce things. I don't care if words that I say mean anything I do. I don't fucking care. Alaska is a city, it's not a state.
I don't care Alabama and Alaska and Morocco in Japan and Laos and Baltimore and Austin that they're all this. Everywhere is the same place. I don't fucking care. It's all fine. Everything is fine. Everything I say is okay.
I agree.
Tell me about masturbating in the Vatican, how did that come about?
So? Like the Vatican is kind of its own country within within Rome itself, like it has its own like army, it has its own like postal stuff going on. And I visited a couple of times because I was on an archaeological dig in Italy and I went there and the first time I was like, whoa, this is so cool, Like it's got this big museum and there's so much cool art, you know, the Sistine Chapel all that. The second time I went, I was like, man, they're their
own country. I've spanked it in like several countries so far, I might not ever get this chance again. Okay, So I didn't like do it in public or like inside the Systeine Chapel or anything like that, but I went to one of the bathrooms in the museum and did it there. And actually the stalls were like very very nice and very kind of private, like they were their own like water closets sort of. And it like it took a little bit because I'm transgender, so like you know,
it was a little bit awkward. A couple of people banged on the door.
But.
Your people banging on the door, yeah, because they needed to use the toilet.
Can I ask you in this bathroom configuration, how many stalls are in this bathroom?
So like the entire bathroom, it was rather large, but like each stall was kind of its own contained like water closet, Like it was like a closet almost like it was its own kind of private room almost. So it was very private. It had like sufficient space to get everything done.
Well, Okay, so what I'm asking you is like I like, if I go into a public restroom, I won't take a shit in a public restroom unless if I see that there are other stalls, because if I'm the only person, because there's absolutely nothing more horrifying than taking a shit in a stall that's the only one. So like you're taking a shit while there's a line to get in, that's a horrifying experience. I don't know if that's the configuration of this bathroom.
No, no, no, there were other toilets in this bathroom as well, Like imagine like a public bathroom that had like I would say, there were probably maybe twelve other toilets.
Yeah, from what I recall, there are twelve other the toilets. Why are people banging on your stall? If there's twelve of the toils, I think I use one of the other ones.
It was it was rather busy. There were a lot of tourists and things like that, so I it wasn't like there were a lot of people. This was in the Vatican Museum, proper, Okay.
The Vatican Museum. And how did you feel when you completed the task?
I felt very accomplished. Is that my first time being like down about like even though I wasn't necessarily in public, like it wasn't it was still in like a public space, right, Like I wasn't in the hotel room or like in my bedroom. So the first time I had ever done that, and I just felt like accomplished, Like yeah, check that box off my bucket list.
And was it in the Vatican. Was it right after you jacked off in the Vatican Museum bathroom that you decided it would be your goal to master beating as many countries as possible or was that beforehand?
I really didn't think about it until then. It was just like kind of a if I don't do this now, like I might never have the chance again because I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, you know, if I get you know, blown away by a car or something like that, like it's now or never. And so I just like impulsively decided to do it. But afterwards, I like, if I ever got God, you got, if I ever do now to travel to another country, I would be like committed to doing it there as well.
So this is my next question. Are you planning on traveling to other countries with the express purpose of masturbating in there?
If I had the money and the like the time to do so, absolutely, like that would not like if I were to plan a travel trip now that would not necessarily be the number one goal for it. But if I have the ability, the free time, the money and everything to be able to travel wherever I wanted, whenever I wanted, absolutely, you know.
What you could probably do is you could probably book a flight to somewhere like super far away and then masturbate in the airplane bathroom while it's over different countries and kind of plan it out so you can knock out a few.
You know, that's a brilliant idea, and I would get into mild hog club.
You also would potentially get arrested. But you don't see that's true. I'm rather stealthy, Okay, I have like a do you have like a process by which you abide.
To don't get caught? But also it's like I don't have so I'm female to male transgender, so I don't have something that would be like sticking out that could be seen if that makes sense?
Like, so.
Is like I'm able to do it stealthier than like a non transgender man would.
Yep. So you is there is there a country in particular that's at the top of your list.
Man, Like the Vatican was pretty good. I think if there was a next goal, like the next summit that I could achieve probably be not necessarily a country, but Antarctica. If I could do it at least like once on every continent, that would be pretty baller.
Okay, I think once per I mean every single country. That's definitely ambitious, and I think it's good to be ambitious, But once in every continent, I think that's a little bit more appropriate or more achievable. Yeah, the Vatican one is the and you know, we're talking a lot about,
you know, masturbating public bathrooms. The Vatican seems like it's the only one where, you know, it necessitates needing a public bathroom, because every every other place you can you can find a there's no hotel rooms in the Vatican, I don't think, correct. Yeah, so everywhere that's the name. Everywhere else, there's the Vatican city. That's the hardest. You already did the most difficult one. Actually, No, North Korea is probably the most difficult one.
Yeah, that might be a little bit difficult.
Yeah, that's that's Is there something to you that is sexually exciting about this or is this merely just a a sort of checking off boxes type of thing for you?
I would say it's just checking off boxes. I don't have any particular affinity for you know, like I guess it is like interesting, like thrilling. I guess there's some adrenaline aspect, but I don't like think about it a whole lot. For me, Like the goal is just to be able to say that I did it.
Well, let's see, we've done about ten minutes on masturbating in every country in the world. Do you think there's any part of this conversation. Do you think there's any stone left unturned in this conversation, any other aspect of this that we did not go over that the people listening might want to hear about.
I don't think so. I just think that, you know, I mean, there is the aspect of it was kind of freeing in a personal aspect, since it's like, you know, a very holy religious city and be having a background of like Christian extremism, Like, it was a little bit of a freeing feeling to kind of at my own hate a little bit a little bit, no offense to anybody who's religious, but that was just my own personal like kind of being able to free myself from the
trappings of the past, so to speak. Other than that. Just about following your dreams.
Man. Everybody has their own way of dealing with trauma, and for some people, the way that they do it is to masturbate in the bathroom of the Vatican Museum. And you know, I believe in my heart of hearts that you should be able to do whatever it is you want in this life as long as you're not hurting other people. So yeah, you know, power to you, you know.
Rock on. Thank you so much for taking my call, man, I really appreciate.
Anything else, anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before.
You go, Love and peace and follow your dreams, do you know forever? All right? Take it easy, man.
Danny, Danny, Danny, how's it going.
I'm good, are you?
I'm doing pretty swell. I feel like We've had a good evening of wonderful calls and I'm ready to have some more. Is there anything in particular you want to talk about today, Danny?
Yep.
So this one's a funny story actually in a way. So my grandparents immigrated to America. I made like thirty years ago, and I was born and raised in California, lived someone of my life in Texas, and then when I was around like nine years old, my mom was like, you know what, let's move back to our like to our roots so you can learn more about your culture. And next thing, I know, my little gay ass went to the Middle East.
Mmm.
Where where exactly in the Middle East?
Jordan?
Jordan? Okay, all right, so you're nine years old, you're in Jordan.
And this is my story of how I learned to discover who I am as a person.
I would love to.
So, growing up, like, I've always known that I was gay, but for the most part, there wasn't much representation and most religions obviously aren't really fond of it. So growing up, like, I've always had this notion that like it's wrong to love guys, but in my head, I always thought that
I was the exception. And so growing up I've just like always had crushes here and there, like this guy in my classroom, like my neighbor, like stuff like that, until around high school and I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna like learn checked up my gulf and at home with my parents, I'd be like the very straightforward I'll do what you say dad, like of course,
mom kind of kid. But then the moment. I was out on the streets, I was kissing boys nice and so one day it got me in a bit of trouble. I was in a car with this guy that I met on Grinder and Jordan, and we were having a good time, like he was really chill.
Dude, Wait, tell me really quick, because I I how long were you a Jordan for it, because you're not nine years old on grind.
Or are you? Oh?
Yeah, okay, at the time, I think I was eighteen.
Okay, damn, So you and Jordan for a while, Yep.
It happened.
Yeah.
So I was in Jordan for about like ten years, and this was like around the end of the time because I left around twenty twenty. But at the time I was twenty nineteen. I was like eighteen nineen years old, and I was in the car with the sky. It was like really nice whatever. We were having like a nice chat, and next thing I know, I'm leaning in for a kiss. And so we're in this like really like cute moment, passionate kissing whatever, and all I see
are blue and red lights flashing in the background. Oh no, And so here's the funny thing. So being gay technically isn't illegal in Jordan, but that's just like on paper. Realistically, considering the society and everything, there are other terms what they call what I do. And so all I saw were a bunch of cops putting me in handcuffs and escorting me to the station and ooh that was That
was the time. I think I spent like three nights there in like a trap in the jail cell because they were trying to get my paperwork done to send me off to court because apparently it was a big offense that I did.
So yes, I'm very curious. So so being gay is not expressly illegal in Jordan, but is it a thing of like the police forces corrupt and so they like try to get you on something else even though they're really trying to get you for being gay.
Yes, So originally my charge was actually public in decency, so it wasn't like considered homosexuality. It was just like because it was indecent to kiss the man in public, so that was my charge, but they kind of took it to the extreme side. I even remember the chief of police from the station looked at me specifically and was like put that one in a separate cell.
Damn, that's fucked up.
I mean, it was so funny. They even went through my wallet and they were like killing him what I had in my pocket because they were like, oh, like how much did he tying?
You? Like what?
This is not like y'all. I'm like, I coughed way more than just twenty bil like twenty bucks. But anyway, okay, and next thing.
Where did they put I'm sorry, I want to let you finish your story, but where did they put the guy who you were kissing? Would they put them in like a different cellar or something?
Yeah, they put him in the separate cell but things he had other people with him. I think they thought he was the top and I was at bottom.
I'm not sure why there is there like a where do you think they were more harsh to you than him? Because of that?
It's hard to tell. He did get his fair share of scrutiny, but I think for me, specifically, my physique and small stature doesn't really help my case. Not to mention, I've always been stubborn about because I've growing up in America, I've like I've been more Americanized than other people, so growing up there, I never really accepted like learning Arabic or anything, because I just wanted to stick to who I was as a person and I just want to
be the unique one. So as they were trying to talk to me in my broken Arabic, it was like, Oh, you're clearly the corrupt one over here. You're the one that's changing voids.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you're sorry? What all you continue? You call your mom?
So I call my mom and I'm like, hey, like, bestie, I'm not coming home tonight, and uh. She ended up coming uh to the station and she was like trying to convince them just to let me out, but like I said, be cause they're trying to finish my paperwork. I ended up staying there for like three nights in like pretty much two days. I think. It was like A went in there like a Thursday night, left there Saturday morning. It was a fun time, really, They gave us food.
It wasn't that bad, you said. It was fun to an extent.
You know.
I met some pretty cool people there. I I hadn't expected i'd be like the odd one out and everyone would hate me, But honestly, like they were pretty chill with me. Like surprisingly, it was the people behind bars.
That was the nicest.
Really, you said you make cool people that who tell me about the people that you met.
Was this one guy who actually asked for my number that first time I walked in there. They they didn't really have any respect for me. But then we just start like chatting and I was like, yeah, like talking to them whatever. And I was pretty chill about it because at that point I was like, ocky, I'll get a shit And this dude was like, you know, you're kind of cool, Like hey, like, once you get out of you want to hang out. I'm like, sure, here's my number.
Did you end up hanging out with here?
No?
God, no, he did try calling me, but I kept blocking the number.
Ah what what what was he like in in in there for something fucked up?
I think he beats someone up. I wasn't really sure.
Oh Jesus, it is. It is interesting that they's like the jail because they're jailing gay men. It just becomes another place for you to meet other gay men.
You no, now that you mention it kind of is.
Interesting. So okay, So they weren't that rough with you. You said it was a chill experience. They weren't like, you know, it's weird because to me, when you're painting the picture of and this is me knowing absolutely nothing about Jordan, about the Jordanian police force, about what people's
values are over there. I would think in a place where it's like literally illegal, well I guess, I guess you said it's not illegal, but where it's like, uh, quasi illegal to be gay, I would think that their prisons would be fucked up too.
So I only say it's the police station. So for the most part, like they did drop me out of myself a few times, and they were like trying to harass me here and there. A lot of jokes want it like it was. It wasn't really a fun time. But for the most part, I kind of just I knew I didn't do anything wrong, and like, despite what they believe, I just had to bear through and it was all going to be okay. So I kind of like kept reassuring myself and it kind of was, well,
not really, it wasn't that okay. When I went to court, I think a week later after they bailed me out, I think my sentencing was like a year in prison something like that. Yeah, No, it was serious. At that point. I was like, okay, so I'm not sure if I can get out.
Of this, And what happened? Did you have to get to prison for a year?
So not really, Here's what happened. So the guy that I was making out with, his dad had some connections, and so because he didn't want either of us going to jail, he made a few phone calls and next thing I know, they kind of change our sentences to like forty hours of community service with like a three year of probation. And at that point I already contact the American Visy. I was like, you know, get me out of here, like about this shit, I'm not doing
it anymore. And I think within like three months they got all my paperwork ready, they gave me an emergency passport, bought my plane tickets, and swum me out to Virginia.
God damn, you hooked up with the right grinder guy.
Thank god?
You know, yeah, thank god.
Man.
You almost had to spend a year in Jordanian prison, which I mean, apparently, from what you're saying, is not that bad, but still.
It could have been worse. Honestly, for the most part, I think it really did teach me a lot of values and it gave me a lot of faith in myself, and I realized that a lot of not a lot of people are going to speak up and fight for you. So if you're not willing to do it for yourself, no one else is going to do that. I spent so long just like sitting by myself, like especially after that, my terms are furious. They locked me in my room for like probably three months.
Yeah, that was that was an aspect of that I did touch on that I wanted to ask you about, is how your parents reacted to all this.
Oh, now that's a funny one.
It was really bad.
I mean I don't to an extent. I guess I kind of tore down their reputation, so I can see why they were kind of mad. But for the most part they took it very extremely Both My parents are like very religious, so you can imagine how that went down. It was dark times all over, and they sent me to conversion therapy. Actually, they have programs there in Jordan. Oh here's a funny one beside Hata twist over there.
I remember he was like telling me, like, yeah, like we all go through phases in life where we're like interested in weird things and he was telling me about his life experiences and how like when he was a kid, he he's always wanted to kiss a penis. And I had to sit there like, hey, like do you want to toss over like the notepad and everything, because I feel like you can tell me about your relationship with your dad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was like, you know, hey, maybe maybe you're the one that needs some therapy here.
No believe or not. It was kind of funny. It's just a lot of bizarre things. But for the most part, it didn't. Like I got to know more about myself
through all the experiences. And by the time I was ready to leave, like I was born in the airplane and like I had five one hundred dollars in my pocket, I was losing everybody that I knew everything my whole I was at the time, I was a second year medical student before I dropped out, and I kind of was just like, you know what, no matter what happens next, everything that I've gone through is a testimony that I can do things by myself because nobody was willing to
believe in me. So if I believe in myself, I was and I could do everything that I've done and survive everything, and I can do a little more than my more.
With myself.
Totally. Man, So you boarded this plane from I have a bunch of questions about the transition from Jordan to Virginia. You went completely completely alone, like no friends in Georgia. I mean, I mean no no friends in Uh did I say Georgia when I met Jordan?
Just now?
Yeah?
Oh okay, I'm bad at but anyway, anyway, so you had no friends or family in Virginia. Did you know anybody in Virginia?
So?
I actually only knew one person. He was an old high school friend of mine. Once he graduated high school, he uh, because he was born in the States as well, and like me, his parents were like, hey, like, let's introduce you your like side of the family. So he graduated high school in Jordan, but then he came back
to Virginia to go to college. And so at the time I emailed him, I was like, hey, like, I have no place to go, and I'm trying to just like get away from everything, Like do you know anyone that's like renting out a room or something? And he goes, you know what, you can just chill with me, And so I kind of took that leap of faith. I wasn't really sure what I was jumping into, and he was like, you know what, I'll help you find a job whatever, just to get.
You back on your feet.
I think the flight was about so the flight from Jordan to UH I have to go to Chicago first. It was like thirteen hours, and then there was like a twelve hour delay for a morning flight to get me from Chicago to DC and then from DC to Virginia. So it was a really help mind you, this was in twenty twenty, literally right in the middle of COVID, so it was actually pretty hard getting any tickets. That's why the embassy had to arrange.
Everything for me.
That's amazing that the embassy was able to arrange for you to get the fuck out of there.
No, they they really did help me a lot. They so they were always I have question checking up on me.
Oh really they did. That's cool there. The embassy is like, you know, checking up on you and being cool because I would think, I guess my idea, well, America has a bad rap right now, so public government services they my impression of them, I feel like a lot of people's impression of them is that they don't really give a shit, So I guess this is a good, Oh, hey, maybe this one part of the government does give a shit kind of thing. But I don't know what I'm
talking about anyway. So when is the last time you spoke with any of your family back in Jordan?
So once I moved, I think it was like a month or so, I tried reaching out to my sisters. For the most part, I really did miss them. They were they were my biggest supporters through all of it. They didn't really know that I was leaving or anything, but despite everything, they were still trying to do their best to support me. So I reached out to them, and my mom kind of was like, hey, like, I don't want to talk to you, and so we spoke
out our differences. She never really apologized for everything that she did to me. She told me that she would she would only wish if I could understand where she's coming from, and that she never meant to harm me. It was just the way she was raised in the culture that she grew up in, so she had no other choice but to grap the way she did. But despite that, she said family of family, and she actually
came to visit twice. Not that our relationship is perfect, but for the most part, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. She does tay some like really ignorant comments here and there, but could have been worse.
So let me ask you when she says this to you, When she says, whatever, this is how I was raised, this is my religion. I wish you could see it from my perspective. Do you make a genuine attempt to see it from her perspective even if you vehemently disagree with it.
Honestly, living on my own for almost two years now, I kind of do understand to an extent because I realized we all have our own separate experiences and whatever we're raised and taught from a young age, it shapes us into the people that we are, and sometimes it's hard to shake it off. Some of us are only lucky to be to have like accepted, like, very open ideas of you know, love and acceptance for other people.
Not many other people grew up in supportive environment. So not that I completely forgive her for everything, but for the most part, I think I'll still consider it to be like to be my biological mom, like that she wants someone to talk to you.
I guess I'll be there for her.
What is your life like now in Virginia before we go, tell us about it? What do you what do you do? Are you a student? Are you dating anyone? Do you have friends? Because you came there completely alone, and I want to hear how you were able to, you know, build from that.
Well, it's a crazy I had a lot of really bad experiences, but for the most part, I I got a job. I kept working hard. It would I would always walk to work. It would take me about like forty forty five minutes. At the time, I was only getting paid like eleven dollars an hour, so I was just trying to make enough to get by. But then I went from one job to another that like paid from eleven to fifteen, and I kept working, picking up
extra shift. If I had any free time, I would try to see if I could work an extra hour or so. And I kept working hard until I got a car, until like things started opening up for me. And now I work as a pharmacy technician and I'm in try to get my license and hopefully soon enough, maybe one day I might go back to college too. I did meet someone. Actually, you should have met him. He was literally the coolest person ever. It origly was
a grinder hook up. He came over, we chilled for a bit, hooked up, and we just kept talking after that for about an hour or so. And funny thing when he was walking out the door, he had his car keys in hand, mind you, and I was like walking him out and he looks at me and he goes, drive safe and two steps he stops and he looks back and he goes, God, I'm so stupid. And the whole cool guy for thought that he had just like faded away. And honestly, he was the cutest person I've
ever met. We ended up dating actually for about a year or so. We did a lot together and he helped me through so much, and he's probably gonna be my best friend. And I've never loved anyone as much as I loved him before.
Man, this grinder is getting you into all sorts of situations.
I think this time it might have ended me up in a good situation. It didn't really last, though, Oh it didn't last.
You broke up.
Given my history and everything, Given my history and everything that happened to me, I'm not exactly a perfect person, so I tend to freak out on the smallest things, and I wake up with night terrors, and I kind of took it out on him. And for the most part, I really am sorry for everything that I've done to him.
I tried my best to fix that. I I posted a video on Instagram, actually twenty two minutes, like twenty two minutes long, me just like sobbing on camera, looking through like old memories and stuff and apologizing to him for everything that I've done wrong, and hope said, you know, he would forgive me and might come back. I wrote him a love letter emailed it to him. I want him like different Reddit forums like dropping like letters and like notes and stuff like that, and hopes he would
see it. I even made a PowerPoint presentation and like I presented it to him to try to convince him to get back with me. He's just He's a great person, and for the most part, with him, I honestly forgot about a lot of things that ever happened to me. It almost seemed like my life starts like the moment I met him.
Interesting, when when did you stop seeing this guy?
About two weeks ago?
Okay, so you're still a little bit in the midst.
Of it.
Sort of. I think tomorrow he's going to give me his definite answer on whether or not we can ever get back together or not.
I'm gonna say, I'm going to say this to you, Danny, because I'm just regurgitating what you said already. You've been through a ton of shit, and you've been through it like as you said, Uh, you know, you told me that all of these experiences have given you the confidence that you can tough shit out alone. And I agree
with you. I mean, when I hear all this ship that you're going through and how you came from Jordan to Virginia freaking alone and you were able to kind of work your way into a stable life position, I mean, you're standing on a great foundation here. I know that people fall in love and they go a little bit wild and whatnot, But listen, Danny, I think you're gonna be okay, and I think you know you're gonna be okay too, because you clearly have this this skill set
of navigating the universe just by yourself. And also you're still very young. You're only twenty one years old, it says, and I find that's freaking amazing too, that you were doing this at nineteen, So you know, I know you might be head of our heels for this guy, but I don't think all hope is lost for you no matter what happens.
And I think you know that too, Yeah, I do, I guess for the most part.
I just.
I really saw a lot in him, and I still do when I say I loved him and conditionally are like I really do, and so I expected he would be the one I spend my whole life with, Like everything that happened to me might have happened, so I can end up with him. But right now the balls in this court. If he wants to come back to me, you can. If he doesn't, that's okay, and I have been through.
Worse well, Danny, thank you for sharing your story with us. I encourage you to be open minded because you're a hell of a soldier here on this earth, and I think that you should have a mindset of abundance as opposed to scarcity, because the world is your oyster if you so choose to attack it. I believe I do believe that about you, and I know you believe that about yourself. So I just wanted to say that again.
Is there anything else that you would like to say to the people of the computer before we.
Go, Danny, let's see that's to be something useful.
So it doesn't have to be anything, you know, go ahead.
I feel like I want to share something nice with just in case someone needs to hear this. If you ever feel like you're alone and you're going through it and you need someone to believe in, I think sometimes if you just find the courage to believe in yourself and you do what you feel is right, you'll end up in better places than you could have ever imagined.
I like it.
What a great ad for Grinder this call has been. Yeah, thank you for calling Danny.
Thank you so much.
Man. You know I will say I meant what I said to Danny. H It was interesting that the second half of I guess the third fourth of that, the fourth fourth of that call was him talking about this guy, because the first three fourths of the call are Danny's adventure journey to realizing that he doesn't need anyone but himself. You know, it's wonderful that he maintains a great relationship
with his sister. It's wonderful that he maintains a relationship with his mom and the things worked out for him. I really do think he's going to be fine, whether or not this guy likes him back. Danny seems like he's an adaptable person. We can tell that from everything he's been through, and once again I appreciate him sharing his story. Hello, Hello, what's up?
Cringe sah, Yeah, having an inter existential crisis?
I believe, yes, cringe. It says here you're having an existential crisis. It says you have a sizeable following on social media, but you feel like you don't have the motivation to do it anymore.
This is.
There's a juicy one. Let's say, I'm excited to get into this here. Tell me tell me, Okay, how long have you had a following on social media?
I want to say, well, it's definitely been a little over a year at this point.
Okay, it's been a little over a year. And what is it?
What is it for?
Can I ask?
It's just like a random stupid shit on TikTok. It's like, because I feel like I can't be myself anywhere, and so I was up all night one night and I just started posting videos, and uh, I started getting like hundreds of follows followings at a time, like it went from one hundred to eight hundred to like do you name it? And now I'm stuck at like forty two thousand, and I just feel paralyzed, like I can't post anymore.
But I feel like I'm letting people down because I did not expect to take off like that.
You know what I mean? I mean, do you have a desire to create content for the Internet for any reason beyond not disappointing people.
I definitely enjoy having an outlet in some way, and I like to embrace and express myself and I like to connect with people. But I also don't know how to I don't have any type of niche or anything like that. I don't know how to be, you know, an influencer or anything. I just can't seem to be authentically myself without having a secondary voice in my head. That's like, delete all your shit right now. You're weird, Like it's weird.
Do you desire to ever like make money off of this or make it into a career for yourself?
This thing is the.
Craziest thing is I have made money off of it, and yet it's just I don't know how to just continue going. Like I've made over two hundred dollars on live streams, but I it was like the spur moment type thing and it just kicked off, and I just don't know how to find that inspiration again. I guess.
Well, I'll tell you something that I that that I've learned that I've been thinking about a lot, which is that in some way with with social media, right, like these these numbers of like, oh, I want to increase my followers, I want to increase my whatever the reward now it's it's so it's important to actually enjoy the process of what you're doing, because the reward for being good at the process is just more of the process.
You know, if you gain a bunch of followers on social media for making videos, your reward is that you get to make more videos. You know, it's an endless loop of process. So if you don't enjoy the process, then there's no point.
Right.
It's just weird because I feel like at some point I did enjoy it, but it's the whole what is it?
Like perceptions things like I will be completely content with myself, yes, and it's it's killing me at this point, like it's driving me into a hole because I feel good about something that I either off the top of my head posted or spent some time on and worked hard on, and I will publish, post it or whatever, and then immediately rewatch it and be like, no, I need to take this step just because I cannot stand to see myself and I know it's stupid, but I wish I
could just jump over that and get past it.
Mhm, yeah, I have. I have that myself sometimes.
Man.
I'm I'm I'm with you. I'm trying to figure that out. I'm trying to figure that out because part of me is always like, part part of me likes posting those kinds of things that I'm afraid to post because it's just like a big fuck you to that feeling, you know, you know what I mean, you're feeling like you're your cringe will be like, well fuck you, I'm gonna personally even cringier. I'm gonna post something I don't I want
to be perceived as even less. To free myself of this feeling, That's what I'd.
Like to do.
And that's the funny part, right, I kind of like spent my entire life being trees like rich for who I am and how I am and being called weird and tringy. And that's kind of why that's I labeled myself cringe because like, fuck, you know, you can't call me that. I called myself that, Like I kind of own that ship. But at the same time, I don't know how to go through with you know, like I said, posting stuff and keeping it up.
Well, I like that attitude that you just said of owning the fact that you are Cringe.
Thank you.
I feel like that's a good guiding light for you through these these situations. I feel like that's a good sort of philosophy to live by for this current time period in your life. Cringe.
Yeah, I'm grateful that I've gotten to that point that I can sit there and and take hate and be like, well, I mean the that's kind of what that's, you know, quirky or whatever the fuck like my niche being fucking cringey.
So it feels good when you're able to successfully post something that you consider to be cringey and just back yeah in that perception and go oh wow, this doesn't even hurt me anymore. You know, it's like you're overcoming it. Yeah, it was.
It was really stupid because like my one of my first posts that ever blew up, I thought was so stupid and cringey, but I actually kept it up because of the whole reason I made the post or the page for you know, the cringe aspect or whatever. And it was like, oh, am I on your for you page. Fuck you keep scrolling because I sucked and I blew up and got like forty thousand likes and fucking six hundred follows from it, and I and I was like, Okay, that happened. What happened there?
Well, listen, oh would you said? Name was cringe? Cringe. At the end of the day, I think if your primary desire is an outlet for creativity and thoughts, you know, if that's your primary desire, if you're not trying to start a business with this thing, or you know, to become an influence or anything like that, then you're completely free to interact with it on your own time schedule.
So even if that's three months from now when you go without opening the app, but in three months you're like, oh, I have this idea and I feel like this is the best outlet for it, then you can start back up then. But I feel like if the desire is not in you to really make something out of this, then I wouldn't.
Feel pressured too, right, I understand completely. I just there's a whole aspect of like I got a little too connected, so my followers might even have like a discord server and everything, and then I just kind of fell off and got distant. And it's at the point where like.
I just.
I want to step back into making stuff, but if I can't stay committed to it, I don't want to let people down.
Don't worry about letting people down. That's you're you're You're never gonna be a you're. You have to be okay with letting people down, or else you're just gonna go insane. Okay, Look, if it makes you feel better, I let people down all the time.
Uh.
I made a little thing with myself, you know, because I'm doing this whole thing and I'm talking to people all the time, and you know, I would like, like, okay, I'll use myself as an example. I would like for people to uh uh, you know, enjoy watching this stream and enjoy interacting with the things that I do on
the internet, but not everyone will. Some people will get disappointed if I don't stream for a day, or if you know, I don't have anything to say in response to a phone call, or I don't know any miscellaneous thing that might happen that would piss someone off or quote let them down. But I made a whole thing with myself. I was like, I have I do not. It's unsustainable for me to care about that kind of thing,
so I just don't. I just made the executive decision not to care about letting people down for the sake of my own mental health and sustainability. And I'm not gonna tell you what to do, but highly high review. I give a high review of that mindset for the short amount of time that I've inhibited it. Anyway, cringe, Good luck to you and ghek bless you for a thousand years.
Thank you.
I honestly feel like I might try to do a live tonight, just just to reconnect a little bit with them. Has given me some inspiration.
Do it up big, Thank you.
Make some merch, cringe, buy it, make a T shirt. I'll buy a T shirt. How much of the t shirts never.
Beak goes on the line, taking your phone calls every night.
Never Bekon goes to it, and I'm just teaching you a loud in your life is not friendly. An expert