Oh good, are you bloody champs? Oh big yawn. I nearly dislocated my face just then, Tiff, did you see that look like a fucking wildlife documentary?
It looked like that scene on the Mask where his chin drops to the ground and his tongue rolls out.
I felt a little bit. I feel a little bit of Jim Carrey every now and then. Hello, everyone, Welcome to the You Project. And as it turns out, roll with the punches. Also, I'll do your intro for you. Fucking I'll do both as roll with the punches. It's the EU Project. It's stiff, it's harps, it's a Monday, it's two thirty eight. I just got back. Before we say low to you, I just got back from hanging out with Ben Shurry from Attica.
Oh yes, yeah right, how was that? Did he whip you up a storm?
No? He did not, because we all know I've got food issues and eating issues, and I'd have to sell my fucking left testicle to get a table there. I'm not sure anyone would want one. But it's amazing. He's amazing, The business is amazing, and everyone who goes there says
it's fucking incredible. So, but you know, when you meet someone and you like, I hope they're a good dude, you know, when you like you like them or you you know, what you know of them is impressive and you kind of want to catch up with them, and if you if you not know who I'm talking about. Ben Own's a restaurant called Attica, which has been voted one of the top few restaurants in Australia multiple times, if not the best, and one of the top fifty
restaurants on the planet, which is a pretty good effort. Anyway, he was on the show a little while ago, and we caught up today for coffee and chat, and he's even better. He's not even a better person.
I cannot recall the discussion, but I can recall liking him and being yeah, I don't know, you have expectations of people, but also not really but I just remember thinking, oh, he's a really great he's really great. Great episode. So I'm gonna have to go back and re listen.
Yeah, good dude, good energy, nice human, down to earth, causes spade a spade, but also like gets it quite compassionate, Like I saw his his staff interact with him a bit. They clearly like him. And then we sat in We sat in Attica, just me and him, like in the restaurant, two people in the restaurant, Me and him. And of course I was the fanciest fucking thing they've ever seen in my black T shirt and my Camo shorts, and we had.
The good shorts. Did you wear the newer ones?
I wore the ones that are only three years old. That's pretty much brands making good work. But nice, dude, So shout out to Ben Shuri and the folk from Attica. Yeah, it was nice. It's nice when you meet someone that's that exceed your expectations and is everything you want and more. But it hasn't been all and frills over at your joint today. It's been a medical melodrama. Today.
We've been contending with the bullies, harps over here, the bullies out there.
What the canine bullies or the yes.
The canine bullies at the park can't just mind their own affairs. They've got to come out and take a piece of someone.
So the very beautiful Luna, who is I mean, if she was a human, she'd be a fucking international model. She's so beautiful. She's the Claudia Shiffer of the Canine world. I'm trying to think of her. I don't know any fucking models the El McPherson of the Canine see. All of those are like sixty years old. Not that they're not incredibly beautiful women, but I'm trying to I don't know any. Do you know, off the top of your head, do you know a young world renowned model?
We don't ask me. The one I think of was Miranda kirk Is. When I was sixteen and used to read Dolly magazine. She won the Dolly cover girl and then she's and she's just stunning. But she's think, I don't know, she'd be old than me now as around the same age. Is that young?
I think? I think she's also four kids in or something, I think, But still, yeah, what I mean is she's not she's not a teenage model anymore. She's well, she's a world famous actor and model. And she's still married to Orlando Bloom. Was that her that was married to him? Yeah? I think it is.
But I've got no idea. I don't know who's married to what in this world.
You know people who are much more up on all this ship than you and me are yelling at their phone or their car right now. YouTube, dumb fuck stay with things like you and I are talking about self management guys. Yeah yeah, yeah, talk about talk about how to fucking get abs or something. YouTube, dumb idiots, stop talking about bucking entertainment. That's you know, so what else? So, So, what happened Luna? It it got bitten or what happened?
Yeah, she haded an altercation, which I didn't realize. I were the park yesterday in the afternoon. She's doing her standard. I throw the frisbee once and she just sprints for forty five minutes straight and just loves life with the frisbee in her mouth. And a big dog ran like, ran at her and ran with her and had a bit of a bucket it they you know, and they get really close and they kind of both went and she dropped the frisbee and yelped and run the other way,
and I thought it she just frightened her. It was so quick. But this morning when she come in to see me, I was like, what's that little there's a little red mark on her neck. And when I lifted a stretch her skin back, a big hole in the back of her neck like it's ripped, ripped a hole right through her. Yeah, they've got very thin sensitive skin. So off to the we went. A couple of staples and a big bandage on her neck and hopefully, hopefully that will be the all she needs.
Just like her mum, thin sensitive skin.
Yeah, but so stoic. I mean I would have been crying and carrying on and telling the world and Luna was just like, oh, oh yeah, that old thing. Oh yeah, they happened yesterday.
Yeah. Well dogs, I mean that is weird, isn't it. Not that I mean, obviously it's not weird that they can't talk, but yeah, where like, if there's something that's bothering them, they're human needs to figure it out.
Yeah, and there's no like. We were at the park for another half I just met was meeting someone there, so then I met my friend. We were at the park for another half an hour. She was running and bouncing around, not a care in the world.
Oh well, it's a good thing she wasn't in too much pain.
Yeah.
So, uh, I had a conversation. I wanted to talk to you this morning today about a chat I had this morning, which is often the way and people think, do you really People have said to me, you know the chats that you have, do you really have those chats? I really do have these chats. And so when I say this is off the back of it always is otherwise, as I would just bring up a topic. But I was talking to somebody this morning and they literally said to me, I don't coach them. I don't know them
that well. But they listened to the show a bit and they know me. And they said, can I ask you one question? It was a lady, and I go, yes, she can ask me two or three. She goes, she goes, how do we find our purpose? And I just went, oh, that's that's such an interesting question. And it like that question operates on the assumption that we only have one purpose, you know, because it's how do we find the purpose or our purpose? And you know, we're just talking about that.
We're talking about, you know, the idea that maybe we have multiple purposes. You know. It's like, not like your purpose is to is to go and save the world doing this. Maybe it's to raise a family, or maybe it's to become a world renowned academic, or maybe it's to raise a family and become a world renowned academic,
it doesn't need to be. Or maybe it's to start a charity where you're working with people in need who who you know, require X, Y Z, and then maybe ten years later you hand over the reins to someone else and now your purpose is something different, you know.
So just the idea that not only not only do we not necessarily have to have a single purpose, we might have multiple, but also that you know, like there's a fair chance that what you think is your or what your focus is and your attention has and what your your alleged purpose is at twenty five might not be the same as fifty five, and that's not good or bad. Things just change. And she's like, no one's ever said that to me, Like I've always thought that
I have to have a purpose. And I go, well, like, we, you know what, as we make this shit up as we go. It's not like that's written in concrete anywhere, and even if it is, a human wrote it, so somebody made it up somewhere. So yeah, it was just it was nice and I was talking to Ben oh Ben from Attica and just the the idea of owning one of the most famous restaurants in the world. But also he sees himself as which he is an artist. And also he's just written a new book which is
called Uses for Obsession, which I'm halfway through. It's fucking it's I mean, you know people who are creative and talented. It's like he could have been just an author. And I don't mean just, but like he could have not done the restaurant thing, and he could have been an artist, or he could have been an author or like anything. Like he is a creative. In my opinion, he's a creative and he happens to do food like he happens to be a great chef.
A question, what's your purpose right now?
So I don't think I have a single purpose, but I think I think the you know, if we go through the I'll answer your question. I have an answer straight off, but I want to preface it. So the whole kind of self reflection through to self actualization and then self transcendence, which is me having a purpose bigger than me. My bigger than me purpose is to help people in a nutshell explore, expand, and operationalize and optimize
their potential. I feel like most people waste their potential in terms of what is possible for them, you know, genetic potential, intellectual potential, creative potential, professional potential. I think most people really waste a lot of what they have to work with because of fear or laziness or procrastination or avoidance. And not that I'm the high watermark for success by any means, but I don't see myself genuinely
as super gifted. Like I'm not bad at a few things, but it's not like, oh, you know, we knew when Craig was three, little fat fucking Craig, Oh we were so gifted. You know, It's like that wasn't me. And so I'm really fascinated with helping people get past whatever it is that's in the way of them becoming the best version of them, which is a cliche, I know, But so I think my purpose is to help people
explore their potential. But that's not a single thing. That's a multi variable process of you know, firstly recognizing, well, what's stopping me, Well, that's probably going to be a mixture of fear or self doubt or self loathing or you know, a lack of knowledge or whatever. You know, there's a bunch of things. And you know, so many people get to fifty, as we've said a thousand times, and say this wasn't my plan, you know, when truthfully
they didn't have an actual plan. They just had an idea or a hope of how things might work out. So I think my purpose is serving others in that way where and whether or not it's becoming the best parent in the world or in their world, or whether or not it's getting a PhD, or whether or not it's building a podcast, or you know, in your case, you know, building a podcast, building a great speaking career, being a good human, being a good dog slash cat, mum,
whatever it is. Like, I don't you know, I know a lot of people who are from the outside looking in, very very wealthy, successful rich, but I don't really consider them to be successful because I see what's going on behind the curtain. Like if the only KPI is things is stuff, then they're doing pretty good. But if we measure success in mental, emotional, social, physical health, which I do part of it at least, then some of them are poverty stricken despite having lots of money. So I
think it's about it's about all of it. That was a long winded answer wasn't it wasn't it?
Ever, that's not like you look at.
I've never been particularly you know, I did get multiple reports which says Craig has a tendency to be somewhat verbose and loquacious in class, and I had to find out what verbos and loquacious meant to My favorite words now means I fucking talk too much. Nothing's changed. And I also infamously was told that no one's ever going to pay to listen to me talk, so I should pay attention in class. Well, sister Catherine, you were fucking wrong.
Well you paid it to into that.
I did. I paid attention to that, and then I ignored our advice.
It's interesting because one of the main one of the big things that we spent a lot of time on at the beginning of our retreat was it Purpose, was identity, Purpose, Mission, those three things and how they fit and come together. And it's and it's one of the practices because we did we did two days of work stuff together, work,
we'll call it, and then we hit the mountains. Then we hit this vast space that just shifts your perspective and so just all of this processing happened, and that whole idea of purpose sat with me, and I thought about it, and it shifted and it changed, and I'm still kind of figuring out how to best articulate the
meaning of it to me. But it has it hasn't had a huge impact on how I see the world and how I see what I'm doing, and how I function and the choices and decisions I make, Which is funny because it can sound like a bit of a wank of a word, can't it, buck pet what's your purpose? But it does. Really it is a guiding light to understanding what you do and why you do it.
And I think it's a really important component of the thing that I have spoken about a lot. And you also, which is living intentionally, living consciously rather than living unconsciously and reactively you know, where you just deal with shit that happens, rather than saying, you know, what do I want my life to look like, feel like, function like, be like in a year? And what do I need to do today to make that? You know, a possibility like one if we go like we're recording this on
the fourteenth of October. If I go well, on the fourteenth of October, twenty twenty five. I would like to be you know, fill in the blank, earning fifty percent more. I would like to be ten kilos later. I would like to have started a degree in bloody communications. I would you know, It's like, it's pretty like the actual planning process is not that difficult. The doing process is
pretty fucking difficult. But you know, I'm not going to wake up on October fourteen, twenty twenty five and accidentally be in a magical place because the universe conspired to make my life shit hot, you know, And so there's that. That's my ever present frustration. I guess with people who listen to a lot of self help, personal development, beavor or psychology read a lot, but I are always about
to do it but never actually doing it. And I'm not trying to alienate any listeners, but it's like, there's got to be a point where you go and whether or not it's me they listen to or someone else, it doesn't because I'm just the messenger. I'm not the message, you know. But if you know, think about how many times we hear something which is true for us or relevant for us, or potentially transformational for us, but failure fail to fucking apply it because it's not the right time,
you know. And I mean it's not really the right time at all. It's just because it's fucking hard, and so we rationalize not starting. But we're always have this i'll start soon mindset. I'll start soon. I'll start soon. I'll start soon. And then then you're fifty and you're still telling yourself the same shit, you know, And I know it's a bit of groundhog day here we come
full circle in the conversation. But all the all the self help and professional development and all the conversations and all the inspiration, all the fucking clever words and all the all the you know, the memes and the whiteboard messages, and they amount to shit. If one of your reasons for listening to the show or reading my staff or TIF staff or whatever is that you want to improve your life, then eventually there needs to be some application
of the information. Otherwise we're just building this kind of knowledge bank that we never exploit.
I think what's tricky is the understanding the deeper levels of it, and unders until you can dig into the deeper levels and understand what is driving decisions values and
what is drawing you towards these perceived purposes. What about what someone chooses as a purpose, depending on how deeply they see that, whether it is whether or not it's connected, and whether or it's going to work for them, because otherwise we look at surface level stuff, my purpose to make this change to these people in whatever industry or area of life. If it's very surface level and you're not understanding really what you are connected to underneath that.
Like for me, I realized two really big things that drive me, or maybe the biggest driver for me in one of my values was integrity. And I realized how many times I have pulled back on executing great ideas or services because of my fear of not being enough or good enough or smart enough or gonna bring the results enough for that to be something of integrity. So because I think, well, I don't know if I'm I
feel like a fraud. So if I don't bring the results for this great idea, then I'm not a person of integrity, and that makes me stop. And then certain I've been abs with why people self sabotage over the years, because there's been times I don't understand why I'm doing it.
But I think integrity is you wanting to do something, trying to do it, fucking up and then talking about how you fucked up and what you learned. That's integrity. Yeah, integuity doesn't necessarily equate to I did a thing and I succeeded. Like the fact that you are living in with integrity to me is about being raw and real and honest and walking your talk like it's about. Uh, is how I actually live a reflection of what I say. And this is one of my pet peeves in social
media in general. And yes, there's some great stuff in social media, but I just think there's a huge, huge amount of people who just say shit that's not true or shit that they don't actually do. That annoys me, and it should't annoy me. That's a flaw in me. But you know, I'm I mean, I know people who say one thing publicly and do another. I know them. I would never name them, but I could name them where how they live is not actually how they represent
themselves to the public. I'm like, you have fucking zero integrity, and I don't respect you, you know, I'd rather And what I don't get is I actually think when people are real like and I understand why some people don't share some things, of course, but when you're trying and fucking up, sometimes winning, sometimes losing, sometimes getting embarrassed, sometimes getting you know whatever, a round of applause and everything in between. But and you share that, people people relate
to you more. Yeah, you know, when you operate with integrity and you do you know, like five minutes before we did this, not five fifteen minutes before we did this podcast, Melissa rang me and went, which I'll tell you off there, I can't tell you on air, But had a sponsorship opportunity with a very very globally known brand, and they want me to say something in the ad that I can't say because I don't believe it, and I said I will work with them, but I can't
say this sentence because that isn't true for me. Also, firstly, I don't think it's true. I think what they're saying is not true, and I definitely can't say it. And you know, it's just like it's sometimes my integrity is a fucking financial handy cap. But I'm just like I said one even if nobody ever heard it, I can't say that because I don't believe it, and I won't
say it just for money. And two, like my audience know me if I if I came on and went, hey everyone, Krispy Kreme, you know, look, don't have them too often, but I reckon you know, once or twice a week a couple of fucking couldn't do better. People would be like, oh my god, you sold out. Now I'm not saying I'm not saying everybody don't ever, you know, I'm saying, do whatever you like. But what I'm saying is I can't sell that on my show. I'm not going to encourage people to put shit in their body
or what I think is shit. Okay, I'm not saying Crispy Kreme. That would be terrible for me to say that, definitely, but you can figure out, you know. And so that to me, that's you know, for me, that's part of integrity, you know. And I think, but also back to you, I want to jump back to your purpose thing for a moment. This is controversial. I reckon a lot of people. If you look at how a lot of people live.
If how people live is a reflection of what matters to the most, then for many people their purpose is comfort. Think about how many people they prioritize comfort over everything, which is why they don't work out or work out hard, which is why they eat food that they don't need. That's that's literally sabotaging their health, that's derailing their genetic potential because it gives them comfort. I'm not there's no judgment in this, just observation. Right by the way, Have
I done it? Yes? Have I have a prioritized comfort? Fucking oath? Has it? You know, if you looked at me over the years, you would have said, I was just I was all about fucking pleasure and what's that what's that term? Tip? What's that term where people and we're back? I just I couldn't go on we're back.
I had.
Hedonistic living or hedonism is you know when everything's you know, and so yeah, I just think that. But the challenge for you know, when you say one of my values is growth and service and you know personal development or health or like that, that's going to be painful at times, you know, maybe often you know, on the journey. But yeah, so's it's that like there's the thing that we say we're about, and then there's the thing that we're really about. When no one's looking you know how we behave.
Well, that's where I think that values and purpose need to Then it's a conversation that needs to happen together because there's the purpose, which is this service base driven and people can get messed up with how that sounds to the world. Oh, it's my purpose is to help you know how many coaches out there is like, my purpose is to help these people do this, this, and this is like actually, you're running an online course where you don't even meet people. Your purpose is to make
a load of money the easiest way possible. But when you look at Veulock, for me, looking at my values and then linking it to why I love the aspects of the things that I do, it's changed the way like I come back and it's changed the way that I feel and think about the stuff that I'm going to put my energy into doing and the outcomes I expect to make and what I want to see out of it is very different because I now I know what I'm connected to and why it matters to me.
Yeah, I think, and I think, well, back to the you know, people just doing stuff because they want to make keaps a dough and there's nothing wrong with that. Either if we know what's going on, you know, if you're clear about well this is, you know, like someone like Alex Hermosi, who you know, he's all about helping people build wealth and build systems and monetizing things and programs and online this and that. And while I don't see to eye on everything with him, he's definitely better
at creating wealth than I am. I'm fucking terrible, and like some stuff, I listened to him and I'm like, nah, nah, nah, that's no, not me. Then other stuff where I'm like, yeah, you're smart as fuck. You know, I could learn in terms of building business or building online funnels and creating products and services and all of that stuff which I'm not very good at. I definitely can learn from him.
But also what I like about him is he's not pretending to be something else, Like he is all about business make and doe crushing killing, and he doesn't pretend that he is the Dalai Lama. Right, So I respect him because whether or not you know, you like him a lot. As a human being. I think he's fine. I listened to him on Chris Williams on what is It Modern Wisdom? And that was a great that was a great chat. I think I referred you to that,
and I'm like, ah, this dude is really smart. I don't align with him on everything, but he wouldn't align with me either. But you know, when people are up front and transparent and direct and real, I don't like even if they're nothing like me and we don't have the same values, But as long as they're being authentic, I'm cool with it because we know what we're getting.
One of my favorite things on Chris's podcast recently, I was listening to I Think It's Dan Martel. I listened to it a couple of times. I really liked him, and one of the things he said that I picked up on the second or third time was if you're not contradicting yourself, you're not growing fast enough. And I love that, and when sometimes hearing things like that can be really jarring because we can hold on to what
we say. We say things, especially in people like you and I who are putting it out publicly, this is what I think, and it can be really jarring to go ooh, like, yep, I'm contradicting that now, Like I've changed my tune on intimate and fasting for females.
Yep, Well that's I mean backflip. Yes, yeah, one hundred percent. And if you I agree, I wouldn't when you say contradicting, I was thinking something else, but it is that. It's like, yeah, essentially it's.
Changing incongruent, but being able to get new information you talk about all the times, you just don't say it in that way. Getting new information and changing your mind about something.
Yeah, I call it unlearning. Yeah, like that thing that I thought, I don't think that anymore, the thing that I believed, I don't believe that anymore. And the reason I don't believe it is because I got new data, or I got new information, or I had a new experience, or I had a conversation, or there's been more research or and I'm not emotionally attached to a particular idea or stance like you know how, Like you said you thought a certain way about intimate and fasting for women.
You got I would I would say you got some new experience or insider understanding or something, And now you don't think that. That's actually a sign of fucking See that person. I want to listen to the person that never unlearns anything. The person that's been right about everything every time for the last thirty years. That's the person you don't want to pay any attention to because that's about emotion and ego and identity, because their sense of
self is tied into being right. Yes, you know, and this is this is one of the challenges when you know you're talking with people who they basically identify themselves as a behavior or an idea or a practice. I am fill in the blank, you know. I am a vegan, I am a carnival, I am a Christian, I am a Buddhist, I am an atheist, I am a business owner, I am a podcast I am all these I am statements. So I am is literally my identity. I am no
good at sport. I am genetically impaired. I am And then we basically tell the world who we are without telling the world who we are at all, trying to understand who am I beyond all the labels I put on myself.
I did heaps of that as well over in India, and I've to put stuff in practice when I got back to not get back into the same environment and hold on tightly to that version of me that I was getting boxed into.
How do you ever plan on for those who have been under a rock or haven't listened to the last few Tiff and me. TIFF's been in India and she's come back with I would say a different perspective and energy. I mean that honestly, like your energy is your energy is genuinely different. And I won't say who will throw you under the bus. But you were talking to someone very recently that you were doing the session with and you hadn't told them anything, and that like, what is
going on with you? You're weird? Have you been meditating your debt? Like I don't know, Maybe you can share that, but anyway, but I just thought, do you have a plan, because when I've had experiences like that, I desperately don't want it to go away.
Yeah I do. It's not going I will not let it go. I've got post it notes, I've got I've got shit written all over I've got different things that I'm practicing. And I went for dinner last night and I walked there and it was a thirty minute walk. And on the way there and on the way back, I walk at half the pace now and I can't even make myself Harry because the thought of making myself Harry almost invites that old persona back. It's like, you know,
we're not We're not rushing everything anymore. Like life is really good now, and you've wasted four years of it worrying about the next thing and rushing and worrying about all the shit that is not and you've missed out on so much.
That's that's interesting. Why four years? Why did you say four years?
I guess because I probably from the big shift of COVID and that was a really big time for me. A lot of things went on, But I would say that, and I remember at the time saying, are you just is this a trauma response? You do real good in chaos? You do you do good when when the chips are down and ship's falling down. So I was like, is this creating a podcast and a new brand and a new thing and all that that picked up real quick? Is that just is that all going to fall away?
And it didn't. But I do feel like I stayed in that state, and I don't like, I don't feel proud of how I've been for the last few years. And I didn't know I was, and I didn't mean to be but I feel if I was watching someone else right now and knowing that was their experience, I would feel very compassionate and sad for them because I'll be like, you're missing so much, all of the little things.
So when you say you don't feel proud, tell me a bit more about that.
Ah, just what This is hard because I don't want to judge it because it just is and I wasn't. I'm not a bad person, but I just it was a very hectic, self absorbed, self protective, selfish headspace all the time, Like I'm so protective of me that no one can come in so no one can fuck me over. But that means that no one can help. And then I'm angry that no one's helping, and I'm angry that I'm angry that i feel alone, and I'm sad and I'm all of these things. Wow, but I'm creating.
That Wow, Like fucking wow, that is that is really good awareness.
Yeah you are.
I'm not saying this because we're on the I haven't even told you there's face to face, but you are different, Like it's like there's been a real shift. That's nice. It's nice, and that's not the that's not an adequate word, but it's for it's good to see, like it's good
to see. And even even at the gym, you know, when I see you at the gym, like your energy is different, like yeah, there's it's like you used to come to the gym because you do or you did, you had that you know pretty much fuck off sign on your forehead like you're like easy going to a point and open to a point. But then it was
like no, a fucking vault right. It was like one of those I picture those old in those old movies with the bank vault door that you've got to spin around the thing, and you know that that was like your heart like fuck off. You know, I can do the cheeky fun thing. But and when you used to hug like it was it was a Ron Harper hug.
It was like almost like I know this is social etiquette, so I'll do it and it's just in an and not that it's like some big embrace now, but but your your energy is different to be around your physical energy and even when you yeah, it's it's it's nice.
So yeah, I'm glad to hear that because I feel I feel different. And I said to some of the others. I one, especially with you because I work so closely with you, and I'm like, I wonder what the experience was like and how much you could see and what that felt like. I declined in today just speaking about energy, and I've trained them for a long time. Won't say
hull it is or anything about the situation. But they came in and started talking and I can't remember what question because we sat down afterwards and had a session after the session and deep and meaningful, but I said, they were talking and I just stopped, put my hands we're doing pad work boxing my hands on my side, and I asked a question. I can't remember which one it might have been. I don't know what it was,
but they just water works. They just broke down. They just cried, and we just had a big hug, and we probably had four big hugs throughout the session. And I said, you're going to stop and have a coffee with me after this, and we're going to do a
whole other sort of session after this session. And thankfully I had the time after that, but it was beautiful to see that she had the space and the opportunity to do that with me, and I had to just stop and see the opportunity and ask a question that was going to matter in that moment.
Yeah that's so nice.
Yeah nice.
I met similarly, I met there's a lot that used to work me for me. So I met one of my ex trainers who used to work for me. And there were hundreds, so I'm not giving away anything. A guy I saw him the other day. I only send two or three times a year, but and I was asking him how things are, and we ended up sitting down outside a cafe. He was getting a coffee, I was getting a coffee, and I said, you know, let's sit.
So we sat and he gave me the rundown on everything, you know, like there's plenty going on in his life. He's not old, but he's older of course than when we worked. And then we then it just went quiet, and I went and what about you, mate? And I didn't say anything, and he just went and he's eyes filled up too, and I go, what's going on with you? And he goes ah, and then he just looked away
and he's like, I can't talk about it. And he's just like you know when you just see and he's a dude, like he's an alpha male, like nice human, not an alpha male buff ed, but like a man's man, like good guy, and yeah, and anyway, I didn't push it,
but yeah, there's just isn't it funny? You know sometimes when you're having this surface level conversation and it's like it's not that it's bullshit, but it's like it's yeah, and they're ah, yeah, good, and that yeah yep, and the kids yep, and the old mate yep, yep, mom and dad good yep, yep, yep, and it's all like it's okay, and we need those conversations because not everything has got to be a fucking deep dive into the human psyche, right, But every now and then you go,
like you're talking to someone and you go, oh, I don't know about you, but I just sometimes feel compelled to go, all right, so what else? And they go what do you mean? And I go, I think, you know what I mean? What else? What else is going on with you? Like? What's going on? And you know, sometimes even with men, especially just if I go because men don't generally say something like how's your heart, mate,
and that's it, just how's your heart? Oh? The amount of times where men have just like just teared up or you know, and it like you and your friend. Yeah, it's just like it's and not that we need to have a deep and meaningful every time, but yeah, it's just like people. You know, it's are you okay? Day? It's all that with men and women, old and young.
You know when when somebody like you did with your client today, where you don't need to sessions done, you've done your job, but you go, no, we're just going to hang around and do this just because you know you want to help someone. You know. That's to me, that's when we spoke before about purpose. It's about that stuff.
It's about the unpredictable, it's about the unpaid. Sometimes it's about the end, the moment, the spontaneous reading the signs, just unconditionally just loving someone and being there.
Yeah, and it's so desensitized to experiencing somebody asking how we are and meaning how we are? But just I know that. I mean, there was that time after the Marklebust workshop I did where I was emotional and you just text through and how bluck and how are you? And that just sent me like it's the moment the caring door is opened, and you know that someone's actually not asking about how is your day? How is work? How is the people? What was the what is the
surface stuff? How are you? It's a really emotional question. I just don't open the door to it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well I think you know, I'm not the best at it, but I'm better. I'm pretty good at it, you know, but I still have. Like I've said this before, but sometimes I catch myself just being the persona not the person I'm like, oh, shut the fuck. Even my own persona gives me the shits, you know, because I'm ah, here's another story, here's another joke. Tip, pull my finger, he he you know, but sometimes that's the fucking Craig Show. It makes me want to spew
in my own mouth, you know. Ah. Fuck, I exhaust me and I am me geez, shut up like fucking But I think one of the challenges too, is I'm digressing and fucking there's no rhyme or reason to this conversation. Everybody, I apologize, But also as a you know, as a speaker, you're part performer, right because you've got to get up there. You can be real and raw, but you've also got to create connection, you know, tell stories hopefully make or
enable people to have a good experience as well. Yes, yes, So it's this combination of vulnerability and performance and psychology and sociology and reading the room and being of value. You know. It's like, it's not just that where you can just get up and pour out your heart, because that ain't going to work either. Yeah, and so just like it's knowing when to ask the question to the person, because you might ask someone the same question in the
wrong situation and it doesn't work. Yeah, So you've got to be all about that awareness and that like what's and their energy and your energy and yeah, it's and that's something that I think you can talk about, but you can't teach it like you can talk about it like you can't. The only way that people can really develop that is just by being in the moment and going in with that kind of I'm going to be aware, I'm going to be present. I'm not going to be
thinking about other shits. I'm going to pay attention to what their word, their words and there and the non words are telling me, you know, and go in with a good intention, which sounds fucking fluffy, but it's true.
And you also have to have such control over your own emotional regulation and the ability to remove that personal stuff in the situation. I know there's been times in the past where I see something in someone and but I am so emotionally attached to the idea around it that I can't articulate or be of any service to them because it's just going to come out as me being a fuck with or judge or you know, so you just I'd be like, I can't even say anything. I'm so irritated they do.
That this way, do you know?
It's like this way to be better? Like I could be more helpful if I could fuck my emotions off out of it so that I can convey some sort of information or idea to them in a way that they would receive.
Yeah, well again, good self awareness. But that's the I mean, like for better or where's all your emotions go everywhere with you your bias, your your flaws, your good stuff, your bad stuff, you know, and the stuff that like there's stuff that annoys me that it annoys me that
I get annoyed, like I shouldn't like it. It's like I know that I'm the problem, you know, Like people that annoy me sometimes where it's probably they're doing something that reminds me of me, whereas they're not actually the problem. I'm actually the problem. But I have this aware of, Oh, this person shits me in the moment, what is that about? And it's like, oh, they're doing the thing that I do,
or they're you know whatever. It might even be jealousy, or it might even be you know, it's I desperately try not to be that, but you know, still raises its ugly head.
You've been my guru in and kind of the story I tell the people when I talk about boundaries. I was talking about my client with a client today about how you have set boundaries in cafes when people that it's not okay for you to be rude to me.
I've told countless people that as an example of, you know, if you can remove your own shitty emotion and angst and just convey the message of setting a boundary, like if it's okay if you want to treat people like that, but it's not okay with me, so I either find someone else to serve me or be kind like that is that is God in the ability to begin understanding that setting a boundary doesn't mean that you're telling someone
what to do to you. You're just saying you can do that, but you can't do I won't accept it for me.
Yeah, yeah, and that's just it's true. I won't let people be rude to me, or I'll walk away or on. Yeah, And it's like, also, neither should I be rude to anyone else ever, I mean even you know, I mean in extreme situations, if someone's doing something fucking violent or
dangerous to someone, that's different. But in general terms, you know, there have been times when I have been rude, or I have been inconsiderate, or I have been unaware, And every time that I realized that, I apologize unequivocally, and I go, that was one hundred percent me, zero percent you. I'm sorry, But I think what is interesting, you know, to that comment that you made about the cafe and if you missed that, what tip's talking about it everyone.
I've spoken a few times about how when people are rude to me, I just stopped them and say it's not okay. It's not okay with me that you're rude to me. So if you want to be rude, that's cool, but don't be rude to me, and it's you know, it's people get a shock, and nobody ever goes off. Most people either totally change their tune or go away and find somebody else. I say, listen, find me a customer service person who's not rude, or you stop being rude.
They're the two options. But you being rude to me and me putting up with it, that's not one of the options. So you figure it out. But when when you do that, but you're not screaming, and you're not jumping up and down, and you're not getting elevated, and you're not being emotional, you're just, you know, a matter of fact, people are. People don't know how to respond sometimes,
you know. And I remember, I don't know if I may have told this story once or twice, but in sixty six years so I'm sure most people haven't heard it. But I had a lady that I trained, so she was my client for quite a while, and when she first started training with me, I don't know if I've ever told you this, but she was so fucking rude to me, and like she treated me like a servant
or you know, the hired help. Like the way that she spoke to me, was so denigrating and so so much talking down, like I was lucky to have her as a client, and I just I fixed that in fucking seventeen seconds. And anyway, she was rude to me the first session, and I gave her the benefit of the doubt. And then second session, and by the way, you know, quite well known, very very wealthy, like fucking more wealth than I would ever will ever have all that,
and that's cool, well done, you're rich, well done. Cool. But so the second session, halfway through, same just treating me like shit. And I just said, I took her into my office at the gym and I just said, I said, I don't know. I said this whole the way that you talk to me, and I just said, it's not okay. I don't you know. I don't need to train you. I'm training you because you want to be. I've got lots of other clients, I've got lots of stuff.
I'm real busy. You're not doing me a favor. And when I pointed out the way that she spoke to me was she was rude, she was super apologetic, embarrassed and truly didn't I don't think she really knew what she was doing, and I explained her, you know, the whole kind of what's it like being around me? I said, maybe you don't know or realize, and if you don't,
that's good, that would explain it. I said, but wow, the way that you come across like you have the biggest fucking superiority complex of all time, you know, and you're just another fucking human in the gym lifting shit, you're not special, and you can't talk to me or
anyone like that, not here. And she apologized, and it was different forever from then, you know, And I think sometimes I don't know how we got to this conversation, but I think sometimes it's as long as you're speaking to people with a level of care and insight and compassion and you're not you know, you're not elevating and you're not you're not meeting them in aggression or whatever. I think it's that can produce good outcomes.
Where did you learn or how were you influenced to get to that point? Did someone teach you or show you or guide you or was it amalgamation of some of the.
Yes, it was just a lot of a lot of conversations, Like I don't. I don't. I mean, I don't know. This is a silly thing to say, but I've spent my life having conversations like a lot, all day every day, training people. And I remember, like I started working in gyms at eighteen, and all day every day I was writing programs, talking to people, you know, full on just
I was never sitting around looking at a computer. I was talking to people all day on the gym floor, at reception, in the assessment room, taking people through shit. And then and then when I started training people one on one, and I started my own business, which was a business within a business initially, so I had a little kind of micro business within the public gym that I worked at. And I remember the way that some of the men that I trained would talk to me
because they were more important in inverted commas. They were richer, they were older, they were smarter in inverted commas, and they treated me like a low level employee, you know, And I was and I remember saying too, I was quite terrified. But I remember having basically an issue with one of my clients who was a prick, and I sacked him and I just said, I'm not going to train you anymore. And he was fucking flabbergasted. And why, I said, because I was. I mean I was. I
was working in pubs, I was doing security. I was one hundred and five kilos. I was you know, I was not incapable of looking after myself or being if I needed to be somewhat assertive in that way. But in the context of my business, I was always uber respectful, uber polite, and he was a bit of a bully and he just bullied people and he tried to bully me, and I fucking I just I didn't lose my shit.
But I remember where I'd been polite, polite, polite, polite, polite, and then I got fucked off and he was terrified. And I remember looking at him, thinking, ah, he's not that. He's not a tough guy at all. And I just said to him, you know, one, I'm not going to train you anymore. And I just said to him, I can't remember exactly, but like the way that he treats people as shit. Then he apologized to my said nah, and I didn't. I never trained him again because it
was just it was just a C word at that time. Anyway, maybe he got better after that, but then I realized, Oh, why did I put up with that for so long? Why did I let that person treat me like shit for so long? It's not like I'm dumb. I'm not scared of him, I'm not like, why am I doing that? And I think part of my self esteem was, well, that's all your worth, creak, and you're lucky to have
this guy paying you this money, you know. So I think it was my shit self esteem and self worth that made me at times allow people to treat me badly.
M Yeah, I think. Well. Another thing I was talking about today was that idea of actually addressing things openly and with that idea that when I talked about this with two other guests before, one was she's been on your show? What she's doctor? H anyway? The opposite Hannah, Hannah, doctor thank you? The opposite of being like, what's the ask every anyone, what's the opposite of nice? And ninety nine point nine percent of the time they'll say nasty.
And the opposite of nice is not nasty. The opposite of nice is honest. And especially with females, this idea of conditioning to be nice, to be polite, to be this. So what we do is we hold on and we hold on and we suppress it and we're nice and until we have to set a boundary. But because we think that's nasty, there's kind of a bit of self hate and self loathing when we do it. So it's a horrible experience. And the reality is you don't have
to be nasty. You just don't have to be nice about everything if it's not doing you any good, if it's putting you in a shitty position.
All right, now you've opened the door that I'm fucking fascinated with. Okay, what are the rules though about honesty? What are the guidelines because you know, sometimes I mean honestly, obviously I would never do this, but like, no, I don't even want to say that that's a bad example. But you know it's like, okay, let me use myself as an example. So there are times when there were times when I was had a high profile working in
the fitness industry. I own multiple gyms, very well known, all that shit writing for the Herald's son and at one stage they're just eating everything that wasn't nailed down. I was borderline. Well, I wasn't borderline. I was from a highweight point of view, obese and like, if somebody had to come up to me and gone, you're a fucking embarrassment. You're morbidly obese, you own a gym, you don't walk, your talk, you're all of that would have been true. But that's not.
That's been nasty. That's not being honest. That's that's been nasty.
But what if what if? Yeah? And I agree, but then so how do we how and when do we exercise this honesty? Like what are the guardrails?
So I think that if you are being if you are just expressing your own experience and being honest about it, right, then you know, like this interaction that somebody's having like I can't you know, I say, somebody's not getting treated well at work and they're always getting then and they're taken advantage of and they work over time and they're all of these things and just saying like I love you and I love working here. However, this is not good for me and this is my personal experience, so
I need to set a boundary for me. And it's hard for me because I really love you and the work, but it's not good for me. So this is, you know, that is being honest without being nasty, so that person gets the choice to hear them and go, oh, okay, well there's all the nice stuff in there, that's all true. I've had plenty of people that are like, oh, workI shit, I have to do overtime all the time. There's such
fucking assholes, why do you do it? But also they love them, they love their work, they love the people, but they're angry, and they've been angry for a long time because they're always feeling undervalued. Yes, and it's like, you know, you can say no to doing that extra work that you don't have to do, but you can explain yourself and say, hey, this is not good for my health, and it's not been good for my health for a long time, and I wish it was because
I fucking love you, but it's hurting me. I've had so many of those conversations. And what's funny is I've been able to have those conversations on hypotheticals for years when I didn't have the ability to enter into a difficult conversation myself because the emotions around it were too fucking much. I couldn't do that. But I had the clarity to see other situations and understand it and be like, well that that could be so easily resolved because there's nothing bad in this person.
Well we need to do a whole our times up, but we need to do a whole fucking change, you know, because it's like sometimes people come up to me and you know, like, for example, I'm doing my mentoring group at the moment on Monday nights. I've got one tonight, and part of that is I'm doing one on ones with everyone in the group, as you know, has a one on one yep, you know, And sometimes people unpack stuff with you, and what they think is the problem,
ain't the problem? Like sometimes they're the problem, you know. And the interesting thing is when you talk to people about their problems, do they say I'm in this relationship and I'm the problem, Like it's always the other person and or if they're out of shape, it's always their mum's cooking or work, or they're sore ankle that they can't you know, it's and then I'm like, okay, are you any part of the problem, And they're like recoil
in shock, what do you mean. I'm like, well, all this shit's going wrong, I'm not I'm not being nasty. I'm just curious, is any of it you like? It can't always be the other person, you know. It can't always be your dad or your boss or and so not everybody that goes my boss is a cunt, is right? Do you know what I mean? It's not like all bosses are cunts and therefore anyone who's got a gripe is right. And it's like when Ricky giv says, just
because you're offended doesn't mean you're right. It just means you're offended, you know, are you like? It can't? So that's the thing too. It's like when I say things sometimes people go, you're brutal, and I'm like, well, is what I'm saying true? I go, yeah, it's true, And I go, well, why don't you just say I'm honest?
Because because we expect when we are going into conflict or confrontation that we want the outcome to be that the other person changes, and that's out of our hands. If the bosses are cun't the bosses are cunt. But what I have control of is the boundary I put up, and they're communicating to the boss that, okay, if you're if this is the way you're going to handle this situation. But I'm I'm not going to be handled like that,
So I'm going to walk away right now. Yeah, Like, I'm not going to stay here and allow that to continue. So if you're going to continue it, that's cool. I'm not never be able to change it, but I'm not going to stand here and endure it.
Yeah yeah, yeah, But what if the boss isn't the problem?
Well, if the person is the problem, well they are going to continue to have a lot of problems, aren't they. I think? And you know, then you just start yourself. We'll watch the common denominator. How many of these problem people are in my life? And if it's most of them, we're starting to get a clue. It's not the other people.
I remember when I started working with you, and once you pulled me up on something really mine and you just said, hey, you made a joke on this topic, this particular topic, and I'm pretty sure you meant nothing by it, and we're joking, but that particular topic, Like, I don't like it, it's not good. It just made me feel good, and I just felt like this was like less than one in having a difficult conversation with someone you love. Like I hung up from that call
and was like, I felt so fucking awful. I was like, I never want to be responsible for making someone I love feel like that. Oh God, but also going, oh, you can say that to someone and it doesn't have to be nasty, and you weren't angry about it. You just said, I'm just letting you know that that's not good for me, and oh God, Like I never forget it.
But it was like those little moments for me have been so powerful, just learning, yeah, you know how to set about like I've used that since I'm like cool, Oh, I get to tell someone the behavior isn't good for me. They can choose whether or not they're going to I'm not telling you not to do it, but I'm going to tell you when you do that. This is how I feel.
Yeah, it's interesting. I did not know that. Well, it's been real. It's been long. It's been long and real, uh, Tiffany and Cook Roll with the Punches, Crag Anything Up of the Year Project listeners. Thanks we did you see you next time?
Tiff signing off farewell