Welcome to our podcast, The Why in the 20s. My name is Viv and I'm Nat. We are two counselors in our mid-20s navigating our adulthood away from our home country, exploring the why questions we encounter relating to relationships, identities and uncertainties. So whether you're listening to our podcast while going for your walk or doing the chores, welcome on board and let the journey begin. Welcome back to another episode of The Why in your 20s. So Nat, how are you doing today?
I'm actually feeling great. Yeah? And it means a whole... I know we record this episode way in advance, but for those that listened to our previous episode, it means a world to us that you stick with us and welcome back. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I very appreciate the people who continue to listen to us, just ramble about different topics and just coming along this journey with us. Yeah, yeah.
I think I do feel we have things to improve quality-wise and in any other areas that there's room for improvement. But yeah, I'm pretty sure towards the end of the year when we look back, we will see how far we have gone and... Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I came in with the idea that I'm ready to make mistakes. Yeah. I'm not saying I hope nothing bad happens, but it's more like we will make mistakes and what we learn from it. So I'm excited to see how we go towards the end of the year, actually.
I'm very excited as well. But another thing... So we do talk about deaths in this episode. And I know it can be distressing for a lot of people. So if any of the listeners do need resources or support or any other concerns, they can go to beyondblue.org. Or also there are 24 free counselling in Australia, and the number for Lifeline is 131114. And please do look after yourself because this is a distressing topic. And if you do want to avoid this content, please do skip today's episode.
And that's completely fine. I think only listen when you're truly ready for it. Yeah. And have the mental capacity to actually go through today's content as well. And because it is a very distressing topic, we often do kind of avoid talking about death. Do you feel that way? I think I used to. It's something I feel like is so far away. I'm just in my teenage years or like 20s. It's something that I would assume is when you reach 60, 70, which is truly not the case.
Yeah. But yeah, I do think I try to avoid it. What about you? I don't think I've ever actively avoided, but I think it's just in our culture or maybe even in my house at home where we're brought up. We don't talk about death because it could be scary. And it's just something that we tend to avoid because there's a lot of uncertainty towards it. There's just a lot of sadness. And my family don't really openly talk about it.
And it's when perhaps someone in our family, like a relative who passed away, then we might talk about it a bit, but we just kind of tend to avoid as well. Yeah. Do you recognize our culture that plays an important part of it? I think so. I think definitely plays a part. I'm not sure if it's like the entire thing, but it could be. I do agree on the uncertainty part. It's like the fear of not knowing where I'll go after death.
And I think that makes the whole, like the uncertainty makes the whole death idea really scary to people. And I think the past two years has changed my perspective as well. I feel like it's very important for us to have that death talk early than we expect. And the more conversation you have, I feel like it clears up all my uncertainty or it just gives me some answers in it, no matter what you believe in or not. So I do, I would say I do avoid it because of, you know, I feel like it's ages away.
And always because the uncertainty that makes it scary. But the past two years has changed. Yeah. Yeah, I think I do avoid it only when I talk to family, like parents and older relatives. But other than that, like with my friends or with everyone else, I don't avoid the topic. Even it was back in high school up until now. I think we just openly talk about it. What do you talk about? It's just like, like how you want to die or when do you think it's an appropriate age?
Or like even talking about funeral. I think that's something that we talk about openly. I don't recall I have talked with my friends around death. But I do agree for some people it's not, you know, we make all the trigger warning thing. It might be scary for some people, but for others can be a very beautiful thing. It can be something that's not scary and very open to discuss. Yeah. So yeah, if you, why do you think it's important to talk about death?
I think at a young age, kids do get curious about it. But at the same time, I feel like a lot of parents just lie about it. Oh, they went to somewhere very far. And then like, oh, they're like, it's not a right lie, I would say. Perhaps it's not from a bad intention. Yeah. At least it's not from a bad intention. But at the same time, I feel like it's not truthful. It's not like just saying, all right, okay, they passed away or they died kind of thing.
And I think it just raises even more questions for the kids. So why not just, all right, talk about it, discuss about it openly and just having that safe space for them to talk about it because honestly, just in their head. And if you're able to kind of talk about it, then you know, okay, this is what they're thinking. This is what other people are thinking. Maybe it'll add some perspective of things. So I do think it's important to talk about death and not shy away from it. Yeah, I agree.
It's something that clears up the uncertainty. And I think as you mentioned and I mentioned as well, that the more you talk about it, you either get more answers from it around death or more understanding about that. And it's less scary. You know, like when you're watching, when I watch scary movie, I always close my eyes because I'm so scared. But actually it's more scary than you actually watch it because you're just imagining in your head what happened.
Things that you imagine can be even scarier than what is it on the screen. So I think that is a way to describe how important it is to talk about death and have that genuine conversation with either with your friends or family or with yourself, I think. Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree. Like even having that conversation with yourself and knowing how you feel death. I think that's very important.
Knowing your own perspective and not shy away from that as well because you never know when it'll hit you. Yeah. And I just think thinking it through, it will help. And it's earlier than you thought. Yeah, I think even back then, I think we do kind of try to make light of the conversation about death. I mean, I don't think that was the purpose of it, but I think that's how we cope with it as teenagers or kids. That's how I cope to work with my friends.
Yeah, and I think one important point to stress on is it will change. Your view of death will change from time to time. The way I see death when I was a teenager compared to now is completely different. And I know someone that already started a family or have kids, their view of death have added an extra layer of it because they might have kids or like their loved one that is not only themselves, but it's more people that included in that consideration.
So one thing to be mindful is it's not just one conversation and it stays till the end of your life, but it changed from time to time as well. So having that conversation with different people really helps broaden that perspective. Yeah. Yeah, I think it could change. I think over time it could change for some people, but at the same time, I've never found death to be scary. I always look forward to death and I'm just going to put out that I'm a Christian.
So then I think that was a very, it brings me peace. And I don't think it's like that for a lot of people. Yeah, I think the religious aspect adds a lot on our view of death as well on maybe you have like the hope of afterlife, would you say so? That the religious part plays an important role in it. The very place, I think not only, I think it's just the central of it. It's not only the importance, it's just the whole thing. Seeing how death is, my perspective is completely based on the Bible.
Yeah. I think one thing I do struggle is the idea of afterlife and I do not believe it. I think that's no afterlife and I feel like, and I believe is when I pass away, that's the end. And I think what makes it different from your view, I think there's a lot of hope around the heaven and afterlife for you. And for me, the hope is in my current life, if that makes sense. I think it's the beauty of uncertainty.
I know it's scary for some people and it's scary for me as well, but it's the beauty of uncertainty and I don't know if it's hope, but the hope that no one in the world have the same life as me and that you cannot replay it. It's not like when you're watching a Netflix show and then, I don't know, when it's the end for you, that might be season two, that's the afterlife. And that's no repeat, like you cannot replay the episode because life is, you cannot redo it for the second time.
And for me, what makes it beautiful and I'm very hopeful on my life is things change and it's different, like you're different from everyone is different. Everyone's lives is different. You guys live differently, have your own challenges, have your own struggles, have your own happiness moments, achievements and everything. And I think that's the beauty of life and that's why I'm so hopeful that I put my hope in my current life.
And I think for other artists, for say the religious belief that they have the hope after life. So I think different view of death, no matter if you are religious or not, that plays an important part in the discussion of death as well. Yeah, I think for personally for me, it's, oh, it's this it kind of thing. So that's why I have hope for like what you said, another analogy, season two of it.
Yeah, because- And the rest of the whole series and I think for me, like this current life, it's just like 10 minutes of the whole thing. But then after life, it's like everything else. So it's a very small part of my life at the moment. Your view on it is more about your entire life. It's a limited series. Yeah, it's like maybe like a six episode thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or if you live a longer life, it could be longer. I'm just saying. I know what you mean. Yeah. It's interesting.
You think your life is just the first 10 minutes for me is a limited series. Mine is unlimited. Yours limited. I think that's the difference of it. Yeah. And I think the reason why I say it out is a lot of people would ask what's the purpose of living if you know you're going to die anyway, and that's the end. If someone have asked me this question before, and I disagree because that's a lot of beauty in my current life.
Then no matter that's episode two, episode three, after I die, it doesn't matter because I'm just living in the present and just enjoying how colorful my life is. Basically living in the moment. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. There's no right or wrong. It's just interesting to have those conversations with your friends. Yeah. And I think we have to chat before. I just feel so fascinated by the hope that you hold on afterlife.
Yeah, I think that's completely different from what I feel about death as well. Yeah. And I think it's good. I think it's good to have different perspective that we can talk about it and just have just listening to other people and see how maybe why you believe the way you believe and broaden that perspective of knowing how other people feel death is. It could be very different. But at the same time, there are other people who might feel the same way as you.
And actually pulling back a bit back to when we were younger. Do you remember your first time of going to a funeral? I do. I think it's around 12 years old. Okay, so that makes, is that in primary? Grade six, around grade six. Yeah, around grade six or like secondary one, two. Yeah, I don't really remember it, but around those age I did. It's my first time. What about you? I actually don't really remember when it was. I just remember it was like in my teenage years, I'm assuming.
Yeah, I think I'm the same. Yeah. But it's hard to say. And I don't even remember who it was for. It wasn't a relative. It was, I think it was just like my parents' friends' parents. So it's like a bit far, but then I think we just went there to give our respects. So what is the first impression for you in a funeral? I think when you step in there, you just can feel the atmosphere. Everyone is very down, very, I guess just very quiet as well. No one's, like there's a lot of people.
There were a lot of people, but it was just very quiet. Nobody was talking. Like they, even if they're talking, they're whispering. Yeah. It's like, it's like they want to kind of respect other people as well, maybe perhaps. And is it, I know because you have a Christian background, so is it more a Christian, is it, is that how you say it, Christian funeral? Or is it more the traditional Chinese funeral that you went?
Um, so a hundred percent sure it was located, like the funeral itself was located in the Chinese ones, but I think they adapted it to be a Christian, Christian funeral. But then I don't remember exactly like how it was different from the other ones. It was just less noisy, like less of the ding ding, like the, the rituals. The rituals. Yeah, so it just, without the rituals, that's it.
I think it wasn't like a big difference, I would say, but maybe there was a pastor, I think, and the pastor shared something and I wasn't paying attention as a kid. I didn't pay attention. How long was it? I would say less than an hour. The actual ceremony that people went in and left. I'm sure the family members, it was longer for them and they had their own thing as well. Yeah. But then for us, it was just less than an hour. That's how I remember.
Was yours a Christian funeral or like the very traditional Chinese ones? It's a very traditional Chinese funeral and I don't know, I think when you're young, you don't have that much feeling towards it and it's my first time, so I just assume you just, I would say embrace it, but like you just take it as it is. It lasts for a whole week. So I go to school and then went back to the place at night.
So it lasts for the whole week and a lot of new experience and as a teenagers, for me, it's more curious than scary. That's like, you know, in Chinese culture, they have that folding the paper and then burn it. Yeah. So the folding thing is mainly for them to, it's gold. Basically, when you burn it, it's gold and they can use it. It's their currency.
Yeah. I find it when they buy like houses, cars, it's very fascinated to me because I've never thought of those things until then and my family would like burn house, burn cars and one thing that shocked me the most is seeing the dead body. Yeah. No, actually I like mix up my memory because I don't think the first time I saw the dead body,
no, but you know, the body is like behind the room. But yeah, I think it's more curious than Gary and I think that relative is not immediate relative and I would say I'm not close with the person, but it's not like immediate family. So I don't feel the emotion is that intense, but a lot of factors contributing to it. It can be my age, it can be it's my first time. I would definitely say more curious than sadness in it.
Yeah. So it wasn't relative, but it was just a very relatively distant relative. I would say so from my memory. But were you part of the whole ritual? Like, does you have to participate in the whole ceremony itself? Because since you're a relative and the traditional Chinese funerals, they do include the family members that they have to be participating in some parts. I think partially I'm in it. Yes, I think I'm partially in it.
I would, I wasn't there the whole week, but I do attend the ceremony towards the end that they have like the real the whole ritual of bringing body out of the building and burning it, cremating it, cremating it and bring it to the site. I don't think I took part on towards the end, but the ritual of doing it in the middle of the week, I do have experience. Actually, I'm not sure now. I feel like it makes up the first and second one, but yeah,
I think that's what I remember. Actually, I think I do mix up the funerals together, especially if it's two relatives, like my grandma and my granddad. Their ceremony is very similar. It's like the Chinese traditional one. And I think even though it's like a very similar distant, but it still felt very different because of your connection with them prior to their death.
And maybe we can talk about like, what do you think they were thinking about before they passed away, the moment they passed away, whether it's relatives or like the people that passed away? I actually don't know. I feel like they would be in pain or uncomfortable because one of my relatives, when they passed away, they already been in the hospital for quite a while and I will assume it's in pain, if not uncomfortable at some point. So yeah, and I think they are quite old.
So they will have, I will assume that they will have probably think about it before. But again, it's not a conversation that I would have even with my family. So it's more about they'll be focusing on their pain and uncomfortableness because of, I guess, being old, there are some uncomfortableness or just these different things in the bodies that's not working very well. And I would assume they don't want to burden their kids as well because the
kids are coming in looking after them from time to time. I would assume, I don't know, I don't know if I would think that when I get old, what do you think your last moment of death would be? I think, I don't, honestly, it's a very hard question to imagine because it really depends on how you die, right? Perhaps if you're, if it's a very quick death, I'm assuming I wouldn't have a lot of time to think
about anything at all. Just like when I see movies or whatnot, like their whole life flashes before you. Yeah, what about we can do a fun exercise with the audience now? Is it one of the exercises you've done with your clients? No, I've done it to myself. With yourself? Yeah, with myself. So the exercise is when you close your eyes, the first few things that pop up on your mind that you want to do it before you die.
Okay. So maybe the audience can, of course, in a safe way, if you're like driving, please don't close your eyes. I mean, you actually experience it. Yeah, you actually experience death, so we don't encourage you to do so. If you're in a safe environment, if you close your eyes and think of three things that you want to do before you die, what would that be? And you can pause the podcast if you need more time to think. Okay, so I think for me, nothing popped out.
I don't think I have like one thing I actually that I have to achieve that or I really, really want to achieve before dying. Or is this something that you want to say to someone or to the world? I guess like telling people I care about, I love them for the last time, but it's not something that I want to achieve in my life. So that's one, like you want to show your love and care to people for the last time, like as usual,
that you would normally do anyway. Yeah, I think that's the main thing, but nothing else really pops out to me. Like whether it's job or something that I really want, nothing really does pop out to me. It's so interesting because when I do that with myself, I wouldn't say out what exactly it is, but it's something that I want to say to a person or it's something that I want, it's something that I wish. How do I say it? How do I say it but like not to? Is it more about reconciling with someone?
Yes, I think from when I do the exercise with myself, something that I want to reconcile with someone or something that I want to tell them or something that I want to do.
And I don't want to say it out loud because it's quite personal. I'm pretty sure you guys have something in mind or like nothing, but one thing I realized is nothing about how much money that I have or what are the jobs that I want to do, but it's more like the attitude you want to live as a person in the world and I find it really interesting because for say for an example, you want to travel around the world and that's I would say a very common item on the bucket list, but that's
not what I'm heading to. I want you guys the audience to reflect on it as well. Taking the traveling around the world as an example, what about traveling around the world makes it special to you? Is it because you want to travel with your loved one or with your family that you treasure
that quality of time or you want to stay curious to explore the world? So it might not be traveling around the world that matters, but the attitude of staying curious or treasuring the quality time with your loved one that matters and from that reflection, it can tell you or you can tell me, I don't know if it's the same for you, it tells me how do I want to live, what kind of person I want to be and what kind of what things I want to give to people, what kind of friends, what kind of
family, daughter I want to be. If that makes sense? Yeah I think it does make sense because it's not the event itself, it's not the thing itself, but it's more about the meaning behind it, why you want to do that. For example, it could be like a job, it could be traveling around the world,
but why do you want to achieve that? The meaning behind it, the values that you hold. Because I personally believe if I have a bucket list, once I finish everything there must have something new added in, so it's like you cannot ever finish it and you don't know how much time you have left in this world, so being in the present and knowing how you want to live as a person in this world,
I think it's more important to me. So one side question, like now that we have done the exercise, like for say you have something on your, not list, but something that you want to achieve or like some values that you want to achieve, what's stopping you from doing it or is there anything that's stopping you from doing it? Just a question for the listeners to think as well. Is there anything that's stopping you doing it from the point of you want to show your care and love to
people or you've really been doing it? Like being a caring and loving person? I think I do do it, but there's always room for improvement, so I think that's just one thing. Like I'm still improving and I'm on the, it's in progress I would say. So it's not something that I'm not actually doing, I think. I'm trying to improve on it. And what you say being a loving caring person is something you hold strongly on, on how you treat people. Oh yeah definitely, one of the things I hold dearly towards.
I think for me, I don't, I think for me that's nothing stopping me from doing it, but of course some moments, some moment that you might not be courageous enough to do so. And I think that's important finding out what's stopping you and breaking it down into bite size
and how to achieve it easier. And I resonate with yours as well, that I'm working towards it, but it's also something, whatever in my mind that I can think of before I die, those points is something that I hold strongly to and that's how I want to live as a person now and I'm working towards it. Yeah and I think that's why it's very important to have those death talks because I always believe that talking about death is reflects on how you want to live. I actually took a
screenshot of an analogy. It's not an analogy unfortunately, but it's a tv shows on Netflix that I really like and I think that reflects on the process of death really beautifully. It's from scratch. One thing that the author said is, so when we talk about and revisit our loss, it's an invitation to think about the living, how we want to live, what we want to leave behind, the quality and kind of relationship that we want to have. So any conversation about death is really a disguised
conversation about living and I really resonate to it. I know I resonate to everything, but this one is I think it describes it very beautifully and comprehensively on how I feel death as well and not to shy away from the conversation but seeing it as a way to explore how you want to
live at the moment. Yeah and I think it's a very good way of summarizing that in the sense even like the exercise that you mentioned earlier and also I think it's very easy to see your values or like your kind of the kind of relationships that you have in the world before you die and
it's very evident to see that in your funeral. You can see that in your funeral, what kind of relationships that you had, what kind of stuff that you left behind, whether it is lessons, it could be actual stuff, it could be anything or even yeah just anything that you actually hold very dearly to. I think it would be very evident in your funeral or in anyone's funeral. What kind of impact have you made in this life? Absolutely. Have you ever imagined how your funeral
looks like? I have actually. I have and I definitely do not want a traditional Chinese one where it's just very loud, very noisy. Yeah. Just a lot of noise. It sounds annoying. It's a very annoying very annoying so I don't want. I think like I want a very quiet. I feel like I have two sides. I want one that's like a lot of music but at the same time I want one that's very quiet. So maybe there are two sections towards the ceremony. One part is very quiet and the other part is just
music. So what do people do? I think I don't want an actual ceremony where people sit and listen. But more like just have food that everyone likes or maybe the food that I like. I don't yeah maybe just food that I like and then they just have it like or maybe it could be like a potluck thing. Everyone can bring a food that reminds them of me. It could be something like that. Yeah. And then everyone just gather in one place or yeah somewhere like that. Something like
that. Would you say you want to have a session that is quiet and a session that is music because two of them represent you as well? Oh it could be. I never thought of it that way but it could be because I think it's just the quiet time. It will just let people kind of remember a lot of stuff that happened in the past but at the same time if there's music it's more about the celebration of them. Moving onwards what can they do with their lives. Just celebration of me going to heaven
kind of thing. I think it would be very cute. I don't want like a very big celebration. I want just like to be in a house or like in a small apartment kind of thing. Not a lot of people. Just the people that I'm closer with. Yeah. That kind of thing. What about you? Have you thought about it? When we discuss this topic I have a thought about it and I'm the same with you. I don't want the traditional Chinese, the loud. I don't want people to burn things because I hate the smoke.
Yeah I don't want people to see my body as well because I don't know it's just weird. Oh so not like open casket. It could be a closed casket. Yeah I feel like because you don't want people to see you when you're sleeping you know. So I'm like... I don't know. I don't want people to see me but I do want it to have a very peaceful funeral. I want it to be and it's weird because I want it to be similar to my wedding as well. That I want it to have a bit needy ocean and just having...
Is there a way to think that way? But I want the peaceful music going on plus it's needy ocean. I invite only close family and friends, people that I care and just celebrate and I think I'm the same as you that partially celebrate but also some people might need time to moan as well.
That they need time to grieve so I wouldn't expect everyone to you know laugh or smile but I think my funeral I want it to be a celebration of my life and remembering all the happy memories that I shared with them and just with like peaceful music you know those like piano relaxations on Spotify, Lazy Sunday, that kind of playlist and just needy ocean have those sounds of the wave and
watch the sunset together. I think just everything that I like it will be really nice so it's weird but I think it's just similar to how I want to have my wedding as well.
That's very interesting because I think perhaps both of them is just kind of a celebration and it's just somewhere where you want to be for example just people gathering or people that you care about gathering together just doing the things that you love watching the sunset listening to music yeah comfortable music yeah peaceful peaceful music piano relaxations peaceful peaceful music piano no lyrics that kind of music yeah yeah that's actually really
very pretty yeah I think I can imagine it well you can come with me yeah don't you do that who do you want to who do you want to invite to your to your not wedding sorry to your um funeral me and some of my friends I think there's a lot of people willing to come they can because there must be a reason why they want to come it doesn't matter if it's friends that I've not keep in touch with as long as they willing to come that shows
they care about me as well and again it's a celebration so I'm sure we have happy memories together as well just to celebrate that so I would say anyone that willing to come um if they don't want to come it's fine no I want to come well I'll make sure you you'll get invited let's see let's see who goes first though if I go first I don't think I'll be invited but what about you is it because I know you want a
smaller funeral is what kind of people you want to invite yeah I think family for sure um I think the many friends that I feel like that have made an impact in my life whether it's positive negative it doesn't matter but just people that have made an impact in my life and I want them I would invite them like if they want to come sure if they don't it's okay but I would want to invite those people
that have made an impact on my life whether whether it could be like teachers doesn't have to be like friends that friends that we actually hung out together doesn't have to be that way but it could just be people that have made an impact and obviously the people who I've made an impact hopefully there are people like that yeah for sure that I would want them to come as well but I think that contradicts as well like I want a small a small um funeral but at the same time I
do want people to gather and have their time of griefing maybe do an online one technology now so it's so impersonal to do it online like if it's your wedding would you just have it online no exactly yeah and I do it feel deeply for people that have their funeral during covid I can imagine how hard it is for the family member to not be able to finish that grieving process because of that but we can talk in the next few episodes about more about grieving yeah but
yeah I do feel for them that they don't actually have that space and time to release their emotions yeah but also beside the funeral sometimes people have tombstones after you die um they cremate you and or some people some countries they don't cremate you I think they just have the whole casket and um and they go whole that bury underground yeah bury underground and then they have a tombstone yeah so any tombstones there are usually some words or like something there
yeah so I think we get to choose if we if they know if the people know what we want on the tombstone then they can put it put it there yeah what about you like do you have anything that you want on your tombstone I don't want my face to be on it I think it'd be so creepy that's a very Chinese thing that we have we have our pictures the big like just our portrait yeah no I don't like that um I think it'll be so beautiful if you know it's like a bio like a
short description of who I am like what kind of person I am and it's just I don't and what kind of person I am I think it'll be really cool and you can walk past others as well and see what their values are or like what how they feel the world yeah I think it would be so nice what about you I haven't actually given much thought of it because I think just in Hong Kong tombstone is not really really a thing but when you were talking about like values and stuff like that I think because
usually on a tombstone it's very short like a few words um and I think for me personally it's just full of joy or joyful something like that so joyful would be a word that you want to yeah I think that's yeah joyful would be a nice word I hope I think for me it's being kind spreading love just smile I think I think that will be I wish it would be a summary of my life and it's also something that I wish people in the world can do as well so kind smile spreading
and spreading love that's nice I think you partially do it I think you're doing you're doing all three things at least from what I can see I have a big smile she often say that her smile is her whole personality which is not true which is definitely not true it's a very important personality that you cannot take away from me it's part part of your personality yeah yeah but not your whole person maybe my laugh as well yeah laugh I think I can tell it's your laugh from
100 meters as long as you laugh loud enough you can yeah I can distinguish your laugh from other people's laugh I used to be very ashamed of it but I think now I just see it as part of me and no one can take it away from me also very positive thing like you think the life is just it's a laugh how can it be negative we can talk about it in the future episode that's kind of a bit sidetracked but yeah I think I'm curious for the audience as well what are the free words that you might
want to put and I'm also curious what are the free things that you want to do before you die you don't have to say it but I think it's as we said we really value those reflections so have a think of it um if you want to share with people around you go for it um but yes I think that summarized today's episode it's actually less heavy than I thought what do you think I think it's quite chill it's chill neutral conversation it didn't really distress you that's good yeah I
think it's because we we we do like to talk about more like heavy topics and I hope we didn't make a make light of the whole conversation about death some people might take it more seriously and that's okay and just having that conversation with other people and if the other people respect you that's perfect yeah I think being respectful during the conversation and when you're ready to have those conversations it's very important as well so yeah thank you so much for sticking
around and we will see you in the next episode and in the meantime if you want to follow our updates or because we share post and information on our instagram you can follow our instagram account the why in your 20s podcast and you can check us out every wednesday 4am est time for a new episode yeah again thank you so much for listening and I hope everyone will have a great week and we will see you next wednesday bye