Sam reads your listener notes

If it wasn't for this medium. My mother used to listen to. The radio a lot, particularly when she was, you know, Going through it. But just all the time, you know, in the car at home. Doing. The house work, which he had a lot of. And I also listened to it during the housework walking. And. Just at those times when I need to relax. Connect.

I was listening to so many pods at one point that I actually had to. Scale it back and realize that it was actually a getting in the way of connecting. And I was filling myself with other people's thoughts and I actually needed to listen to my own. But there is definitely a happy medium and it's somewhere around 15 to maybe 20 hours a week. Maybe more. It's certainly it's 10 to one on screens or shows. Because, you can keep your hands free while you listen. And. You can get things done.

And in the middle of the night, you don't want to be putting the screen on, do you want to just listen to something? Stories around the campfire. So I wanted to thank some of those. Shows those presenters that. Were there. Whether they knew it or not. W they were there for people in a very important way. And of course they did know that. It was one of the reasons they were going. That's one of the reasons they kept going. And that's why.

Adam Curry, the inventor of podcasting among others. Calls his listeners produces because. In a very real way. They help to ensure that a show gets out and continues to get out. Because. That's what a producer does. So just by listening, you helped to produce it. Knowing that someone. Is hoping that this drops on Wednesday morning. So they can walk the dog or whatever. That helps give me reasons to make sure that. You know, this happens that I, that I get it done.

And of course, Joe and Allie are not here. Uh, because we. Didn't get one done this weekend, too many things going on. So I thought I'd just do a little special solo. And read some notes from listeners. Thank Al producers. In other words, An essential. Job. So one of the many ways that listeners help is not just by listening, but also advocating for their favorite shows. Telling people about them. Advocating for the medium itself.

And. In some cases sending in helpful notes criticism, sometimes well-earned usually. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen any feedback that was not fair in some way. And the critical notes. Uh, probably more important, really. Because. To make a criticism shows that you care. One way or the other. And to offer praise also.

So I wanted to highlight some of those contributions. And on the theme of gratitude today. Which is something that I think I need right now. And I. I know a lot of you do too. So here's a simple bit of feedback. I'm listening to your podcast. The other two were louder than you. And it sounds like you have to fight for your chance to speak. So that was sent to Joe. And, you know, That person. Became a producer that day because. I took that on board and I really thought about it.

The next time we recorded. And I think it made a difference. So that's worth mentioning. Shout out to that person. And here's one from someone who's been listening for a long time. That was good. The analogy of thoughts as clouds passing in the sky is great. My son struggles with anxiety and fixation. I think that's a good, simple way to emphasize thoughts, come and go. If I'm being snarky and cynical attachment theory feels like adding academic language to. Some people are clingy heads.

Some people are loners. But I get it's way more complicated and understanding why you make the decisions you do helps you be a better human. Well, that's a pretty. That's a pretty good summary of what attachment theory can offer. To us and what it's done for me. Understanding why you do things is. Essential. And I've probably said it before, but. Humans are a mystery to themselves and to each other. Unless we make the effort to understand. And even then it's not a perfect thing. Of course.

Even with the greatest effort and the greatest intention. And these theories are just that they're just theories. Some are more or less. Proven or illustrated by evidence and some are just ideas. One of my favorites. Erik Erikson's seven stages of psychosocial development. Not backed by. Clinical studies, it doesn't need to be. It's a useful idea, nonetheless. Uh, attachment theory. However, it does have a fair bit of. Evidence to it. But none of that is especially.

Useful or decisive one way or the other, unless the, theory is grappled with. Very carefully and seriously by the people that are interested in getting something from it. And we shouldn't be looking just for. Confirmation of what we want confirmed and. Things that comfort and Sue this, we should be looking for those more difficult insights. The things we don't want to say to ourselves or to others. And I've heard a lot of that good stuff being said on pods. Because.

It's a medium, unlike any other.

What is a podcast it's just. An audio file. Connected to a text file. Called an RSS feed, and that file just says, here's the name of the show? Here's the name of the episode? Here's a description of the episode. The people that appear on it, et cetera, you know, metadata. And then it points to a file. And then you can listen to that file anywhere. On a browser. In an app. iTunes back in the day. It means it's open it. Can't be controlled and centralized by technology platforms.

YouTube, which controls all the video and Spotify, which is attempting to control all of audio. In the early days of RSS, really simple syndication. You may remember blogs, they're still around. And people would catch them. In blog readers. A very popular blog reader. Was Google reader. Google started offering free hosting. For blogs. And there. Reader and their hosting became very popular. And then one day they went, yeah, we're done. With maintaining this product, we don't care about it.

And it killed off blogging as an open decentralized. Medium audio over RSS nearly went the same way, but. I came along a couple of years after blogging and it didn't quite get taken over by anybody. Apple put the apple podcasts app on every iPhone they sold and. This ended up saving the medium in a roundabout way and apple, continue to maintain that app, even though it doesn't make them any money, it's pretty much the last cool thing that they do. Just cause it's a good thing to do.

And. I really want to emphasize this point that there's something about just being able to stick an audio file on a server. And point to it. In a text file and say here. Come and grab it on whatever thing you want to listen. That we don't all get corralled. Into technology platforms, driven by algorithms. And instead. Everything that appears in my pod catcher. On my phone. Is what I asked to be there. Nothing appears that I didn't ask for. So an app I'd like to recommend podcast guru.

It's got some great features. Give it a shot. It's available on both your major phone kinds. Anyway, back to. The producers. This is another one from a. Uh, recent times. I just know for myself, I had real battles with my anxious attachment style when it came to dating to. And I found the more energy I poured into things that used to bring me so much joy. Writing music, dancing, baseball. The more, I was able to create safety and fulfillment for myself.

Like Sam was saying on the podcast and the less I had to rely on romantic connections for that high. It took time. But my experience has been that eventually the passions I've nurtured for myself. I've taken the place of that. Anxious. In my case, desperate search for a positive kick from another person. So if that's not an affirmation of why. You know, it's worth doing the work. I don't know what is. So really it's not. You know, like the old media.

You know, you hit print and it goes out to millions of people. You know, you turn on the mic and you broadcast from a powerful antenna and people receive it. But there's not necessarily a way to talk back. But of course the invention of talkback was essential to the survival of radio. Calling into request a favorite song or just to talk to a presenter. This sustained many, many people in difficult times. Now radio is.

In. Quite a lot of trouble commercially, and it's groaning under the weight of advertising. And when you look at the digital media landscape in general. It's. Either locked up in a platform. Or it's groaning under display ads. Trackers and all this sort of stuff. Podcasting. Audio over RSS is one of the few remaining mediums that has not. Gone that way. So. It allows things like this to thrive and to exist. Because it's relatively cheap. And as I say, decentralized, And. It enables a kind of.

More authentic connection. Because you're not trying to juice an algorithm because this medium hasn't been algorithm of fired yet. There's no way to game it. You just have to make good stuff and then hope that people will find it, or you tell people about it. And then they might tell other people about it. It's old school in that way. One of the things that's missing though, is an easy way for people to reach out.

So I have been thinking we maybe just need to get like a. Just a phone number that people can text or call that might be fun. And of course people are still sending messages to Joe and Allie, a fair bit. And occasionally me. Here's another one. Not bad. I usually hate podcasts to be honest, but there were lots of good points made. Many of which I agreed with. Nice work. Great. I listened to your podcast. I did the attachment style test. Apparently I am avoidant.

I would've said anxious, but there you go. It's hard to answer when not in a relationship. I'm sure it switches to secure with the right person, but not immediately, I guess. Thank you. And here's one from a very long time listener. Pretty much from the beginning. I found some of the conversation quite confronting as it was a real reminder of how much work I have to do still to develop a secure attachment style. That was kind of a downer for me.

But what I want to give more thought to is the notion that was touched on by the topic of you are capable of secure attachment. I'd like to further explore, develop the idea of a secure attachment relationship with myself, because I'm not sure I can do adequate vulnerability to create secure attachment with another, without it actually. Well, maybe digging further into my own stuff is just another avoidance tactic. Yeah, well, it's interesting. Anyway, short story really enjoyed it.

Glad to hear you are back to weekly Epps. Ooh. Yes. Little bit of. A little bit of a. Key piece of encouragement there. Thank you. You'll notice, I'm not mentioning everybody's names. Some of it's quite personal, but you know, you know who you are. So I did have a thought about this. Maybe digging further into my own stuff is just another avoidance tactics. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps, I think there's some wisdom there. It's certainly a danger. And, you know, Taking.

Taking quizzes and taking on new theories and inventorying yourself. Yeah, it can be. A fun hobby and diversion, and God knows, I like to navel gaze. But I don't. I don't think it's an enormous danger of. Th this level of reflection. You know is part of your. Daily life. I think you're very much already on that path where you can. Take this. You know, new knowledge and add to it and develop it usefully for yourself. You know, with the attachment theory stuff, it's really important to.

Get beyond. Uh, sort of going, oh, in here is the answer. What it's more about is I'm going to make. I'm going to figure out the answers. Myself using this theory. And very. That if that process is done the right way, that it steers us away from that sense of victim hood and towards that sense of agency. one of the things I mentioned in that F is that. The theory. Had been seized on by many people with anxious attachment as a, as a way of explaining the pain. Anxiety.

They were experiencing in relationships. And that's really, that's really good. But it also became a way of saying. You know, These avoidant types. Uh bad people and. It's their fault. That you know, they're making me the anxious type, but, you know, being the avoidant type. Oh, well, and yeah, sure. There's a little bit of dynamic there. But, but ultimately. That style pre-existed those romantic relationships, you know, that's the key point. And so working through that.

As honestly, as we can is the key. And look. I've just indulged me here. Forgive me. You know, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting what other people have said. I thought you were all brilliant. But just saying Sam really? Sean. Yeah. And I wrote back, yes, he had really done his research. Plus he dug deep on the personal side, plus he could see how it works outside of romantic relationships and understood, understand the childhood stuff. Well, that's a very nice compliment from Joe.

He's an essential element of getting this whole thing going of just really saying great idea, Sam. So when, how let's go, go, go, go. And. You know, he's all the way through. Had this, obsessive drive towards it. Which has really helped spur me along. And. You know, he's been so good at just giving me just. Flat honest. Um, Feedback along the way, which has been so valuable. And then this person writes back the dynamic attachment question mark, between the three of you is very healthy.

Funny, they both called you a C bomb. Yeah. Well, I'm glad we all think it's funny. Okay. Looking for the next one. Someone wrote in and suggested this for a blurb for the show. An alcoholic communist and a nutcase walk into a podcast. I thought that was good. In other news, I listened to your podcast a lot. The three of you have a great dynamic. You know how you guys kind of struggle with your preamble? Like it's good.

It's a solid foundation, but what you talk about it kind of, it's kind of more down to earth than the opening. Which distinguishes reality from the things we experienced. That's a big philosophical leap for people to take over their morning. Croissant. And I keep bouncing this idea around in my head. It doesn't work, but it might work with the right words. Don't be offended at this unsolicited comment. I love you. He goes. An alcoholic communist and a nutcase walk into a podcast.

Yeah, I like it. I said immediately, well, Can I be a nutcase and a communist and half an alcoholic, you know? Podcasts were there when a. The booze was a big problem. And it was one of those things that, you know, Help me find a way into like other places and other ways of coping. And then eventually, you know, Making a show really was just an extension of listening. And I would encourage everyone out there. If the thought about switching on a Mike. Um, Please do.

And, you know, if you want to reach out for any advice or help with that, please do. I will. Literally. Give you any encouragement or advice coaching prodding, you need. To get you going and keep you going. I guarantee you you've got something worth sharing. And not only that. I'm willing to. Host the host your. Your whole files for you? I've got unlimited hosting that I paid, you know, 20 us a month for. And it would actually, it's not the first time. That I'd be very happy.

To create a feed and host your stuff for you. And, you know, you can have a little email log in and upload it and stuff yourself. And. You know, it can become part of a. You know, a network of. People that are. Yeah, helping each other do cool stuff in this medium. That's something I'm happy to help with. Okay. You're just looking for more. There's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff. Okay. Here's another one from longtime listener. Listening to Jesus is my homie.

It's pretty which is one of our most successful lips ever. That's pretty captivating, listening to people. Talk about success and failure in their previous relationships. But I don't know if I should morally be captivated by it, or I like this. See, now this shows. This show is a good. You know, moral sense. This person is asking themselves the right questions. Like, is it voyeuristic? Well, maybe a little. You know, Not going to lie. I've enjoyed those times.

You're listening to a show, which is ostensibly about history. For example, David Kraus, a history of England. He reveals little things. About his kids. And his life. I enjoy those little details. He's got this nice warm sense of humor and it's warm, but dry, hard to explain. He's a wonderful presenter. Highly recommend that show, even if you don't particularly care about the history of. England. It's uh, it's just a great choice. It's very well done. It's very human. I wonderfully researched.

But. David at one point became quite sick and. You know, I wasn't sure if he was gonna make it or not. And so yeah, it did. It felt like witnessing. Something quite intimately as a stranger, he didn't go into it very much, but you could hear the impact in his voice. Very pleased to say. He seems to be okay now. I'll continue with the text. Like, is it voyeuristic or is it a learning tool? How do you know where the line is? Is there even a line in reality. Trippy Friday morning, either way.

I'm really enjoying it. That quote about drinking poison and hoping someone else gets sick. The Emmett one is beautiful, but that poison one is so succinct. Yeah. Agreed. Uh, as for where the line is. Yeah, that's a good one. I mean, Tripping over into voyeurism. It's much easier to do in with some subject matter than others. The shows I listened to. There's very rarely ever any feeling. Where it's. Yeah, it's turning into prying.

Sometimes you do get the sense when you're listening, that people have forgotten the mikes are on and they're just, you know, enjoying themselves. And they're just having a. Just a good chat and being as honest as they would with friends. And I mean, that's part of the attraction. And it's really not. Yeah, it's not quite the same. As someone who, you know, who's. You know, on YouTube trying to feed the beast and keep the algorithm going and getting driven by the incentives to.

Exploit themselves more and more. And encourage the audience to exploit them, which is a very unhealthy dynamic that can occur on those platforms. And you can see someone go from. You know, creating. Just sort of relatively harmless. Humorous content it can develop into something quite dark and has a real edge. To it. Where you can see that there's, you know, that thing. Audience capture. And so I think that that's where the line is.

When you feel as though you are encouraging or commissioning something unhealthy to continue. And really it's. That that line is really no different as a listener. Than it is. As a friend or, for someone close in your life. Where you might be encouraging or commissioning something unhealthy to continue. As a listener, that impact is much smaller. But it's basically the same sort of line where, where you, you know, And so just avoiding. Yeah, avoiding being part of something exploitative.

I think you just, you feel it. Very rarely encountered that in podcasting, where I felt people were oversharing. Uh, and it's really very different to. You know, yeah. Being on Oprah or whatever, there might only be a few hundred listeners and those people, 99.9, 9% of them are going to, be very respectful. And are going to hold that sort of knowledge in the right way. So that's my thought on that. And I think it's very obvious from this message that.

This listener is not in danger of being overly voyeuristic. But also, I would say. You know, it is part of the fun, um, the appeal of. Being honest and knowing that someone that you don't necessarily know personally is going to know about it, because I think we've all got things we want to get off our chest and we've all got. Ways that we want to be seen. And sometimes we want to be seen in the uncomplimentary. Things about ourselves, the unflattering things we want to be seen.

In that way, not just as beautiful and capable and strong. Yes. Yes, yes. But we also want to be seen as the ugliness in us. And the. The clumsiness that is bare. The. The weakness. And to be seen and to still be accepted by people. I mean, that's very powerful. And it's not, it's not the same thing as like, you know, legitimising or. Um, You know, celebrating that it's, you know, it's just, it is what it is. And. To, to kind of. Get it off your chest.

It's not going to feed the beast and make things worse that you. It takes it in the other direction. Of, um, Feeling that it's easier to manage because you've shared it in that, in the right way. He has a little. Joe said to someone, I thought we talked over each other too much. And then the person replied, there was only one moment where I thought that. You know, this has come up a lot. Um, With, uh, us interrupting each other and yeah, this is worth acknowledging. The end was great.

And I'm looking forward to the ending therapy slash administering your own medicine. Oh, man, we did record that one. But the sound got stuffed up, so yeah, we're going to have to do it again. I think. I'll go so far as to say I envy you in the pod space. Not because I literally want a podcast. But the way you spoke at the end about using a part of your brain to express your thoughts in a way you hadn't for 15 years, Made me realize that's what I seek with my writing.

And I'm envious of people who get external validation or connection with other humans in that form. Oh my God. There's nothing wrong with that. I love this. This is.

Wow, this is okay. That felt a little bit cosmic. I'd literally just been saying. You want to, you want your weakness and your ugliness and your, the things you're not proud of to be seen and accepted. You know, it's the hiding of that, that kills us. It's the hide, like literally. It's a hiding of that, that takes us away from life. In the fullest sense. And then this message comes along and just confirming the, I wasn't sure where I was going with that thought.

Well, here's where I was going with it. One of our. Longest and most loyal listeners is. Understands exactly what I'm talking about and feels the same way. And. That's very helpful for both of us, I think. And. So what I want to say about that? Is thank you for expressing it. First of

all. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that envy. And as we discussed in that episode on envy, But it's really just pointing us to. Things. Um, Sometimes on the very literal level. Oh, I want to do that too. Great. Do it. Other times it might. Yeah, I. I might have to dig a little bit to get what it's actually telling you. It might not be so obvious, but it's there. You know where to dig. But in this case, um, to this person, I would say. Absolutely do it.

As in have a podcast. You know, I can advise about, an affordable mic. That will sound great. And. You know, you can get started. And if you're already writing. Oh, really? I cannot encourage you enough to do this. Because. Uh, yeah, I do think of. Podcasting as a form of writing. Usually cause a lot of thought. Has gone in ahead of an episode. The trick in my case actually sort of gathering all those.

Thoughts, all those fluttering birds and bringing them to roost at the right moment is, you know, can be an enormous challenge. And it's not a trick I always pull off, but I kind of enjoy that improvisational approach. Um, and I liked the riskiness of it. And I'm willing to accept failure. But. If your. Someone with a regular writing practice, which I S. I have a very patchy writing practice and I should be. And I want to turn some of that into audio. it was read it out.

But if you've got a regular writing practice in. You won't ways. To connect that. Um, in a more, you know, bring the circle back around in this way that you're talking about. using a part of your brain to express your thoughts in a way you hadn't 15 years. That's what I seek with my writing. And the validation, there's nothing wrong with wanting that. You remember that episode of scrubs years ago? Where. You know, Turk was claiming that it, you know, it wasn't about the ego.

Wasn't about being a good surgeon. You know, it wasn't about being admired by people and, Dr. Cox is calling him out on that. You know, The wonderful, James C uh, McGinley. I actually have written it. I've written a pilot for a television show starring him. Um, I really should, uh, dig that out. Um, I built the show with him in mind. Um, that's another story, but you know, adventures in writing. Sometimes what they need is to be set out loud. Riders are always given that advice to.

Read their work out loud and, you know, hear the rhythm of it or get someone else to. Read it out here. The music. I hear the rhythm or not as the case may be here, the bum notes and, you know, fix them. Find where the rhythm is. The pace is, you know, dragging. This, there's something about bringing it out of the head and the page where it's a silent thing. It's not silent when the person's reading it, they give voice to it in their own mind, which is a beautiful thing.

But, you can give voice to it yourself and you can transmit those thoughts to. A different kind of reader. Who may be. It doesn't have the I budget, to sit and read or, um, it's not something they're good at, or, like me, maybe they. Uh, don't always set aside that time for various reasons, including, you know, focus. But if I'm listening. And. Doing something with my hands. I'm the most attentive reader you could possibly imagine. Like I'm really all in. I came across a wonderful study.

Years ago, early in. Learning about education. that one of the most helpful things for kids who struggle with, literacy. Is, listen to a pod and follow along with a transcript. Now, back in the day, it was really expensive to produce transcripts, but now it's, much, much easier. Um, thanks to our AI overlords. Uh, and, uh, If you've written it well, you've already got the words. And so people can listen and they can read along as well. If they want and well, they can just listen.

And then you can give them away to, you know, reach out and close that circle. So that's something I'd really be keen to see happen. Because as I keep saying, I'm so grateful to the people. That attracted me to this medium and told me about it. And I'm a grateful to the people I listened to. They're the reason that I eventually got going. Uh, well, you know, and Joe, it was crucial. And Hume McGinley. And all those early listeners who.

Left voice messages in chats and like all that was just absolutely essential. And, this person is one of those early listeners who was critical to keeping it all going. So. It would really make sense. For that. Work to, to continue. And to me, there's no difference.

Listening, speaking, it's all part of the same process. Isn't it? And we shouldn't just be speaking or just be listening. We should be doing both as a human. We have a right. And, uh, an obligation to speak and to listen. And the listening part was something I really had to work on because I just wanted to speak and I just really wanted to be heard, heard, heard, and I was greedy to be heard. And, it was great to discover that I was actually a greedy to hear. As well.

So. I hope you'll, move towards, that if it feels right for you. Um, Here's another one. I haven't listened to the Jesus one yet, but the latest episode was very interesting to me. I followed your podcast and would like to listen more about the realities and issues of our generation. Fascinating. You guys are great chatters and have nice voices. I'm not native. So I need to listen one more time as I didn't get some words. Ah, well, that's where the transcript can be helpful.

Matter of fact, I just realized some people may, a lot of people may not be aware. Of how to access transcripts. Every episode we upload has a transcript attached, which is, you know, maybe 95% accurate. Sometimes I correct them by hand and sometimes I don't, but all of those are available on our website. T T T dot transistor dot F M. But they're also available. In some apps. Apple podcasts now, is actually producing their own transcripts, which in some cases might be better.

Then the one we've included. And. The aforementioned podcast guru will show a nice, neat little transcript as you listen in the app. you can activate it or leave it off. and fountain. Pod verse. Pod friend. True fans and a bunch of others. Have that transcript capability. Like in-app so you don't have to go to a website to see it.

So highly recommend trying out one of those and as a handy URL, new podcast apps, you know, just look that up and, you know, it lists them by feature and grab one of those. And. Subscribe to the show in that. If you want to access those. Things like chapters and, Episode art, not just the usual show art. Poke Husker is the one. Um, Leaning on a lot at the moment, looking for another one.

May I share a thought. I find incredibly powerful. A self-esteem builder equals. God paid. Has offered exactly the same price to save everybody that chooses to have faith. Equals the price being the precious blood of your son, Christ Jesus. That makes us equal, not above, not below in value to every other human being. This price was paid before I was born. Our mere human existence makes us valuable.

Yeah. And so while I am not a believer in the same way as this person, I think I can very much connect to what they're saying. That none of us are above or below. Each other. That episode, um, Jesus is my homie from Joe where he really lays it on the line Where his spiritual journey has taken him in the last few years. That was really cool. A lot of people really, really connected. With that. Hi, Joe. Just stumbled upon your channel and heard that Jesus is your homie. Love it.

You mentioned reading a book about the sermon on the Mount. Do you mind sharing with me the full title and author watched a great movie the other week, the case for Christ. If you ever want to share your faith with another person trying. So in perfectly to live the Christian faith. We'd be happy to chat or meet up. That's cool. Isn't it? Here's one from an early listener. You guys should get a Patrion account and you work hard enough at it. Joe says doubt. Anyone would give us money. Never know.

Um, How many listeners you got and Joe says one 50 max per app. Yeah, I think we do. We get up around there. Um, I think we've nudged up to 200. Some, some of them might be up to 300. Ask Sam, if he'll teach me about a hundred Krishna movement sometime. Yeah. Yeah, I need to talk more about the higher Krishna stuff at some point, for sure. Here's one from my mate. Totally on the alley rationalist viewpoint on this app.

But, uh, recognize a yearning to see Joe's broader awareness, worldview challenging my way of looking at things. Thanks as always guys. Yeah. Uh, oh, sorry. One, two punch podcast. You are resonated with me this morning. The 10,000 things break down episode with Joe seeing meaning in consciousness, expanding experiences and Alex O'Connor's within reason episode on meaning and death meaty stuff. There you go. So we are in some good company there. I've heard Alex O'Connor mentioned recently.

As well. And I think this was about the same episode. Yes. I don't often get to hear about that sort of experience from people who can so well articulated, engaging, inspiring. Awesome. Uh, I think that was about the breakdown episode. Uh, Hope you are well too amazing episode slash grilling of Allie. She is a brave woman. Uh, Joe says, I thought you might be appalled with are completely unqualified grilling a valley. And then she replies.

I was actually a bit concerned, but she handled it with aplomb. How is she after it? Yeah. Uh, good. I think. Uh, that reminds me though. the other person was saying earlier about where is that line, where it might become exploitative. And certainly Joe and Ellie have both told, you know, gut wrenching breakdown stories. Um, and to me. That feels like a fairly normal conversation to have, to be honest. Um, because of childhood experiences, I had actually had adults confess.

Um, all kinds of things to me. Um, in that hard question of context. Um, So maybe I can be. Oh, yeah. Maybe not relaxed. But I don't get as alarmed as, as easily as perhaps I should sometimes. But also we did get some feedback after that. Yeah, that obviously Allie did a really important thing, shared some things, very courageously, some horrifying experiences that, I think it's important to talk about for her own sake, but other people as well.

But we did get that feedback from a listener who said they, that they felt that Joe and I weren't holding. Allie's grief and sadness. The difficulty we weren't like holding it in quite, quite the right way. And I would probably agree with that. Now. Complete change of tech. Uh, someone quoting the show back to us. I just thought posting a hot photo of myself might have helped everyone calm down. That sent me. Uh, yeah, that was very funny.

Here's another one relating to a breakdown episode, I listened to ambassador hotel. Big. Wow. Can totally see the therapy therapeutic benefit in the podcast. There's so many who would never find a way to do that. As an aside. Interesting to hear that the dynamic of just the two of you versus three, I think it's good, but Allie makes it great. Well, there you go. There's confirmation. Oh, that's episode nine or 10 or 11, somewhere around there.

We do probably have one or two OGE stands that will like. A locked. When it was just the true. Every, every single show I love has changed in some way. And sometimes I do move on and sometimes I. Embrace it. Uh, begrudgingly. Is that possible? Yeah, I guess. Before eventually going, no, no, this is good. I always enjoy your apps. And this one was super entertaining. I had a really frustrated response throughout it, obviously, because I am exactly one of the serial offenders that you speak of.

Which topic was this? Um, interesting how much I wanted to defend my position as I was listening. I still feel this urge to justify to you all why I post the way I do and to explain it's not all just online stuff. I'm trying to work out why I care so much. Definitely feeling seen and not in a good way. I remember now. That was the a, yeah. Shut the hell up. You know, stop posting stuff that you, uh, you know, stay in your lane app that we did.

From memory, I was in favor of not staying in your lane overall. And that. I think. You know, one of the problems with the stay in your lane and like don't post about things you don't know about is. It, I don't think this got covered in the app. I think it was one of those things later where I was like, damn. This is what I really wanted to say. So now I get to do it. Okay, so here goes. The Dunning Kruger effect. It's where.

People that know enough about a topic and they have a level of intelligence necessary threshold of intelligence. You learn a bit about a topic and then you get humbled by it. Right. You start out yeah, I get this it's simple. And then you do a bit of reading or a bit of listening and wait a minute. There's way more to this than I thought this is a vast area of knowledge you're staring at the grand canyon. Right? You thought it was just a ditch.

And, and, you know, It's the, it's the golf of space and time. And that humility is really cool. Uh, and it's essential to learning. You have to embrace your ignorance and you have to be uncomfortable with it. It makes you hungry to know more, right? So if you're like me, you end up learning about a lot of different topics and. You know enough to know you don't fully get it. But you have a duty nonetheless, to at least speak from that position of partial knowledge.

And you, you, you know, you have to be honest about what you're doing, don't know, right. And you can say things like it seems to me. You don't need to make absolute statements. This is wrong. And that is right. In fact, Usually that's once you know, a little bit, you won't be thinking that way anyway. Um, but when it's clear, That there is a statement worth making. Well, yeah. Put a caveat in there, but go ahead and make it.

Because if the smart people who have looked into stuff a little bit, if they all hang back because they know that they're not experts. Guess who that leaves. The people that have not done any homework at all, who feel supremely confident in their completely uninformed opinion. So if the semi informed stay out of it, The completely uninformed will dominate the debate. So, I'm sorry to tell you. Half-assed opinions. Uh, better than no asked opinions. Right.

So if you're half informed, Just say, Hey man, I'm half informed. But it seems to me. That. You know, I think that works. And like I said, I would hate to see. The more thoughtful types, hang back and just allow all the, uh, this is simple. I am right. Respect my opinion types to, dominate everything. We don't have to be arrogant about it. And we don't even necessarily have to express an opinion when we post. I think I might've said this in the app.

Sometimes we can just mention that we're considering this mentioned that we're thinking about it. That can be incredibly powerful. We are a herd species to some degree, and we need to know what other people are thinking about. It is powerful. And when we know that everybody else is concerned about something. Maybe we don't necessarily agree, on every aspect of it, but we all recognize that this is important. If no, one's saying, I think this is important. I'm worried.

I have questions, you know, if no one's saying that. Or only the, you know, The Noah asked to do versus the saying that then that's no good. And the same person said. Uh, the irony of three north side is sitting around expressing their opinions about things for an hour. Well shit canning. Middle-class white women for doing their version of the same. And then the reply to that was turns out Allie was doing the exact same posting. She was complaining about which we worked out during the episode.

I look, I've done it. And I've told people to get off the internet. God. Everyone has I hope, I mean, come on. It's a birthright at this point. But in all seriousness, no, I don't think middle-class white women should stay out of it. I think. There are some things where maybe they could. You know, step back one little bit. Um, But it has to be acknowledged that. For better or worse. It's often middle-class white women that do. There, it might be in a position. To be heard.

Because I have access to certain people that maybe others don't. So there's a, there's an important network effect. If, if an issue is never championed outside of the effected group, it usually doesn't go anywhere. So in middle-class white women take up causes. Um, As they have been doing for centuries. When really they are.

Like. Textbook case of taking up causes and not always to the right effect, of course, but I mean, that's never the case with, you know, we can't guarantee the right outcome. But, but it's, it's just a fact that middle-class white women have actually played a crucial role in modern history. Uh, it's not for no reason they had literacy. Um, Maybe they didn't have to work 12 to 14 hours a day in paid employment and domestic labor and childcare. Maybe they had helped with that stuff.

So they had the luxury of reading and writing. Letters and gathering in parlors and talking about things and getting petitions going and they had the respectability. It was very difficult for the patriarchy in the battle for. Universal suffrage. They were working class women in there who was sometimes overshadowed by the middle-class women. And there were women of color who were often, overshadowed, also And of course there was a parallel struggle for them. the emancipation.

Of people in slavery. And there was an enormous debate in 19th century activism about whether to prioritize emancipation or suffrage. so you can see that middle-class white women have treated this issue sometimes selfishly and sometimes selflessly and have sometimes very much come down on the right side of history. So if we told them to get out, it would cripple. a key plank in civil society. It's just a fact. Yeah. Does that mean though? That it's always a benign influence? No, of course not.

And so the usual caveats apply. You know, there were suffragettes who did not want rough girls getting the vote. I did not want sex workers getting the vote. Did not want women without property or unmarried. To get the vote, but they didn't get their way in the end. Did they? But it was very. Difficult for, you know, Quote, unquote, polite, respectable, um, patriarchs. Who have a load of dignity, but don't share it with anybody.

When they were locking up and force feeding middle-class girls, and middle-class girls were smashing windows that really, had an effect. You can be sure. If the working class or people of color do any of that? Well, they might be dismissed. But, quote unquote, nice girls from nice homes. Can't be quite dismissed in the same way and that's not fair. I don't agree with that, but it's just a fact. And so that. That positionality.

Is crucial because those sorts of claims cannot be rejected quite as easily. We've seen just in the last week or two middle-class white women being arrested and brutalized by police. For opposing violence. Being met with violence themselves. And let's face it. The patriarchal double standard does have at least one use. Which is people are outraged. By that. As they should be. If a dreadlocked hippie gets some rough handling. Not everybody's going to be sympathetic.

But when that same brutality is turned on white middle-class women. Well, So some people that's when it counts. So. We can use that. That's what I'm saying. Well, that was a lengthy reply to that text. What the conversation continue. And here's one last one. A couple of mates started listening and said, they're really enjoying it. Uh, the 10,000 things podcast is so fucking dope. Um, man, that's the best one. All right. Well, that's enough. from me. I hope you've enjoyed this.

I hope I've done my gratitude work. Um, One last one. I listened to. How do we know when therapy is working this morning? Thought it was also very good. You guys have a great podcast on your hands? We'll thank you to that person. But the truth is despite how arrogant and self-assured, I can seem at times the truth is I do need other people. Uh, everybody does. This is not a solo effort. It's not three people. It's hundreds that have made it. Um, Uh, begin and continue.

It took millions and millions and millions of people to put someone on the moon. And it takes a few hundred to get a podcast going. Another time, I'll talk about some of those shows. I mentioned that were really there for me at difficult times. That's a topic that needs to be treated. At more length for now, I hope that you've enjoyed hearing from other listeners or hearing your own words and. Understand how important they are. And understand this role of.

The listener as much more than just a listener as a producer, as a member of a network. Of people that are participating. Not just in supporting this show, but we're participating in your life and vice versa. And that's really, such an important antidote to the. Ah, the nihilistic chaos of, consume, uh, Techno feudal existence. Where we are encouraged to believe that we're alone and that asserting the importance of our individual perspective is. And our individual desires is where it's at.

And of course we all recognize at this point that that is not entirely where it's at. And that we need more, much more. Consider yourself a producer and give this thought of, for value. Some consideration because. Someone encouraged us to start a Patrion. I don't think Patrion is for us, but I do think we will put the call out there. Anyone who wants to help out with stuff like show notes or. Sourcing image art, like Craig has been supplying us with photos for a couple of years now.

or just nice footage we can use for short video and. Telling other people about the show. And yes. Time, talent and treasure the value for value philosophy. That if you don't ask, you may not receive. So I'm going to do the ask. We will eventually set up. Some way of handing currency. As a way of saying, Hey, I got some value out of this. And here's some value I want to return to you. I can't imagine doing any sort of monthly payment for extra episodes or anything like that.

I don't want to put anything behind a pay wall. Um, That seems. I don't like that. You know, People who can't afford it, can't get access. Yeah, I don't like that. I think what we do should be for everybody. From each, according to their means to each, according to their needs. So I wouldn't want to put a minimum or a maximum on it. But do I want to support PayPal? Do I want to support, you know, Apple pay. There's no good options. Are there? It's one to think about.

And if anyone has any suggestions, text the people that you've been texting. I do think. A general show, phone number would be a good idea. And you can also write to the 10,000 things at. outlook.com. And, you know, if you have any suggestion about like a, a financial mechanism then shoot it through. Okay. Well, I hope you've enjoyed that. And. That's just another. Half a dozen or so of the 10,000 things. See you for a regular app with all three of us again soon. I think next Wednesday.

Thanks again. Bye.