Being Yourself, FAST

when you start out in executive search. So before I bring him on a couple of fun little nuggets that you should know, Jonathan has been with our firm seven years, one of my favorite stories about Jonathan, because we went through training, and after gosh, probably about six months, he came to me and said, hey, you know, I really promise I was paying attention. I was in tune to your training. But I just need some clarity about the timing behind this marketing plan that we had put together.

Because Jonathan, he was so incredibly teachable, he was executing our drip marketing plan incredibly well, with one exception, the exception that he missed was the timing. So this is a seven step drip marketing plan that when executed accordingly, should happen over about a four month period with Jonathan and his eagerness to get things rolling. He was doing it over the course of about seven days. So he'd gotten a

little feedback from the market that it was a smidge much. So he came back and said, I don't think this was a response we're going for anyway, I really appreciate his humility in approaching and asking what he was doing wrong. But I also really the enthusiasm to which he wanted to get started and do things the right way speaks a lot to his character while at thinking ahead. So without further ado, I'd like to welcome Jonathan McIntosh. Welcome to The Talent Trade.

headhunter? And I didn't even know what that was. And I said, people get paid to help make connections professionally for people. She said, Yes, I think you'd be good at it, or responded to an ad in indeed, for a nonprofit headhunter. And because I knew the world loosely of nonprofits having worked in

ministry for 20 years, I felt like it'd be a good fit. And thankfully, thinking ahead, belts think it would be a good fit to so I'm very grateful to have, as I say, washed up on the kind shores of thinking ahead executive search.

another human being. And don't forget to be a human. And when I think about and I don't know if you've seen this in your niche, but when I think about the nonprofit team, there's a lot of churn and a lot of turnover through new hires, and you always want everyone to make it but not everyone makes it sometimes that's a that's a work effort issue. Sometimes that's a

phone aversion issue. But I've seen often, people with the right work habits, they're making the number of dials every day that they should, but somehow they're not able to put it together. And I think they still, when it comes to making connections with people, whether that's a bizdev, or marketing approach, or if that's a candidate recruiting approach, they still are very bound by their scripts and don't know how to find clothes that fit, they don't know how to find language

that feels like them. They don't know how to stop and recognize, hey, I'm actually talking to another human, I'm actually listening to another human and they're giving me wonderful things about their life that I should be curious about. And I'm

just moving on to the next question here on my outline. So that's kind of the overall thing I if I can emphasize anything to new recruiters that thinking had or and I don't know how helpful this will be across the industry, it's a stop and be a human being on the phone.

kill myself. But if I can find my own way, if I can find my own voice, if I can make it unique, then it becomes fun, and it becomes a game. So that was kind of one Aha. Number two was after I'd had some success and hearing from people like, Hey, this is not like the standard recruiting call that I get, or hey, that wasn't like the standard cold call that I get. This felt real different, unique. Three, the third kind of aha, I was thinking about pattern interrupt, and we can talk about

Pattern Interrupt in a minute. And then for it was watching people on my team, with great work habits, not put it together and not make it work. And we go on, they were doing all the right things that leadership was telling them to do. They went through the training, they had the scripts, why weren't they able to make it work in our business. So it was those kind of four pieces that came together.

language. I need to be professional, but I want people to see me as a human. Talk to me about your journey with that.

recipe. And if you've cooked or if you've made cocktails, you need to stick to the recipe as closely as possible, until you start to learn the basics. Until you you really become proficient. For example, I had a friend once who said, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm going to start to make cocktails, I'm gonna buy some stuff and start to throw some stuff together. But he didn't know any of the classic recipes. And why citrus works with a bitter and you need a sweetening agent. And then you

need a base spirit. He didn't know any of these classic combinations that bartenders for 150 years had been proving out. And so he was trying to break rules before he even knew the rules and why the rules worked. So yes, absolutely, to the new recruiter go by the scripts, that the people who have been successful in this business for 20 years are using, learn why they work, learn the basics, and that's the same thing with any

cooking recipe. But then as you start to become proficient in the kitchen, you know why Saul, fat, eat and acid work together? And then you know how to adjust those dials. You can start to break the rules only after you learn why the rules work.

off the charts charisma in order to make it work in search. There are plenty of people that are just pay, I'm a good listener, I bring a lot of empathy to the table. I'm kind. And then I know my work. I work my routine. I work my my daily calls. But yeah, I think you can I think to answer your question more bluntly, I think you can we all can get better at emotional intelligence. I think that the entry point to that is listening. I think when I'm distracted, when I'm my mind is

somewhere else. When I have another app pulled up. And I'm not fully invested in the call, I miss opportunities to interject to ask a clarifying question to double click on something to go tell me more about that.

company. And it's in a requires, it's asking of you a certain response to go, Wait a second, that's really curious. Wait a second, what did you mean by that? Wait a second, can we circle back do you mind, you just said something very, very

interesting to me. And when we're in this call with a person is this almost sacred space, and you're navigating these very interesting waters, where you're talking to them about some of the most personal items in their lives, their interests, their passions, what they make on a yearly basis, what they think they should make, why they are undervalued in the market.

Sometimes you're talking about racial dynamics, sometimes you're talking about office culture dynamics, sometimes you're you're working through the most difficult and painful things of their lives right now this toxic thing that I had to deal with at work, and should I leave? Should I be looking for something else, but I've given this company or this organization my entire life? And now I've got a boss that doesn't see my value? And what should I do in that situation? Jonathan,

it's not like what we do is super difficult. I'm not trying to overinflate the recruiters role. But human beings are important, and their stories are important. And do we treat them as such?

there can be beauty on the other side. But as soon as someone picks up the phone, and they did not let it roll to voicemail, whether it's a bizdev or recruiting call, the very first thing they're thinking when they hear Jonathan McIntosh thinking I had executive searches, how the hell can I get off this call? As soon as possible? The only thing they're thinking is, gosh, this was not the number I thought it was right. Oh, I was expecting call from a donor colleague, friend, board member

boss. I was not expecting a cold call today. And so you got to realize they're like a scared horse because they're just like, they're in their amygdala at that point in time. And all they're thinking is, how do Why hang up and not seem like an a hole right now? And you've got to come in and be like, sheesh, it's okay. It's gonna be alright, we're gonna get through this together. Let me just calm you down for one second. I'm not

a salesperson. I'm not here to try to sell you something. I'm not really right now trying to even recruit you for anything. You can tell me to go pound sand anytime you want. Can I just tell you why I'm reaching out today. And generally people are like, okay, I can listen, you sound like a human being. You sound like you know that this is potentially awkward for me to calm people down bringing them out of their amygdala so they can pause long enough to actually hear what you're

saying. Because all they want to do is go nope, not for me. Nope, not at this time. Note. We don't hire recruiters. No, I'm not looking right. And so pattern interrupt is any way that you can kind of stop that. Hey, I'm a recruiter. No thanks. Click. That's the pattern. How do you interrupt?

in an interview setting how we do it. And I found myself saying Jonathan McIntosh thinking I had executive search, I could hear you know, you could sense these things like you can feel someone tensing up over the phone, and I said, Look, I'm not trying to sell you anything. In fact, I'm going to tell you, I'm calling if that's okay. And you can tell me afterwards to go pound sand if you like, is that okay? And she laughed. He said, Yeah, I said, I'm gonna I'm gonna Headhunter This is a cold. So

I'll say that, like, I'm a headhunter. This is a cold call, no one likes to get these. But here we are. But my point is, don't take my phraseology, experiment with what sounds good coming out of your mouth. Once again, be yourself on the phone, I'm not going to apologize for making a cold call. In fact, sometimes I will say, I'm sorry, I'm just now reaching out to you, man, we've been in the same circles for five years. And I've never called you, I'm sorry, I don't apologize for it's taken

me this long to call you. But however, in your voicemail, feel free to be just a little bit weird. I'm not saying be completely off the charts goofy, and unprofessional. But at the same time you're talking to a human being, maybe they're at home, wearing something professional of top in their underwear, and they're about to jump to a zoom call, you can acknowledge just kind of the craziness that just is all of this, like everyone is just playing pretend and anything

they do. And just kind of take the mask off for a second. And let some of your your humaneness come through. I think that's attractive. I think that's what people respond to.

of that is on the ladder in my head. And the ladder is a phrase I got from some therapists one time, it's when you are in constant comparison, and ranking yourself and where you think you stand either above or below others based on wealth, social status. And so I can put myself mentally on the ladder below the CEOs. And so I've become either totally obsequious meaning like, whatever you want to become a Yes, man, or they become almost too cold, you do have to read people, that high EQ thing is

you've got to be a bit of a social chameleon. So when I'm calling into the New York market, I know that most of those people that I'm reaching out to talk fast, don't have time for BS, and the moving really quickly. And my syrupy southern charm can be lost on them. So I can boom, get right down to business when necessary. And you're trying to like, hey, how much tolerance can't even tell this person has written for? So yeah, we want to look good. We want to look

professional, we want to look buttoned up. Also, when you're New Earth is you want to do it, right. I mean, I go through most of my life, as far as work, parenting and marriage, how am I doing it right? Am I failing? Or not? How do I even know. And so the scripts and the familiarity feels good, because it provides us with a sense, like, Hey, I made my calls, and I did it on script. And I can check the box at the end of the day, and

that's fine. But I think if you want to grow your billings, and you really want to make a memorable impression in the markets, it's not did I make my calls ended up follow the script, it's to make a meaningful connection today.

else's. It's that they put their twist on it. If I hear you, right, that's where you go from connection to meaningful connection.

of repetition. To go back to our our volume piece. You know, you've heard the story many times about the photography students, one group of students had to go out and by the end of the semester, produced 500 photographs, the others only had to produce one really high quality photograph, but the students who worried about volume You more than quality, by the last set of photographs are making, their quality was higher, your quality only gets better as you practice as you

get into it. That's why what we say around here is, and I remind myself of this because I make bad bizdev and marketing calls all the time. They're awkward, they can't, I try to not make them awkward intentionally. But I mean, I remember the first marketing call I made to someone in the nonprofit space in a, in a performing arts organization that I wanted to work with. I was nervously reading back my script and and I said, and give

me a call and I read, I read the number aloud. And I was like, Oh, I'm sorry, that's your number that I just couldn't practice you. I am a professional, I promise. I will tell you later, I ended up placing that person at another organization. And I've worked with them since so it wasn't the end of the world. My point is a good marketing call is one that is made good marketing call is one that's made, it can be perfect. And over time, with volume, you get better and you learn to become yourself.

what's happening. It's more than the words being said, it's the feeling and the emotional freight and weight of that the energy that's coming through. That's why we are phone people more than than email people. Because you can have those, those that delicate interchanges of energy on the phone, so much better than you can be email, it's got to feel authentic. In order for me to feel like I'm actually doing something of good. And to leaving voicemails or making calls that matter.

It's got to feel authentic. So when's the last time you freshen up your scripts? You know, one thing right now that we're doing our team, basically, we set dream target lists for marketing, our fantastic assistant put together basically, a vision board for each of us with these target organizations. And I've been leaving voicemails telling people at those organizations like, Hey, I just want you to know, I may not be on your dream list to work with, but you're on

my dream list to work with. And, you know, that may not mean anything to you or not. But I'm gonna keep keep calling me because I really do want us to work together at some point in time