Tyler can't connect, so we're good so. Yours is better than Tyler, so. Yeah, much better. So maybe he'll join. Maybe not. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Spin run down. It is November 1st. We're back to regularly scheduled programming and we have a special guest, the 2023 Rogue Invitational Champion Pat Velner. How's it going? Not too bad, I'm on holidays now. Yeah, you you said you were
going to a cabin. You this planned I guess ahead of time that go do rogue and then take some time. Off it was, but it always feels nicer when you win. You go on holidays, you don't have anything hanging over your head, so it's it's nice. That's awesome. Yeah. Great weekend at Rogue without, you know, a little bit of ups and downs as, as we saw weather was a big play in that, right? Like delays changes to what was
maybe communicated at one point. How did you navigate that personally and kind of what was the atmosphere as things just kept on changing throughout the weekend? You know, I you try to just roll with it. I think in general it was frustrating for everyone like that, for the athletes, for the rogue team, like nobody wants to be having to pivot and go to Plan D Like it's just it sucks.
And I think everybody, all things considered, would have preferred to just do everything how it was planned and how it was written and and execute the weekend the way it was meant to be. So you know, I I look at all the changes that we made and I feel like I'm glad the weekend turned out the way it did because it's feels like every change that got made kind of made the workouts slightly worse for me every time. So that's like a little bit
annoying. But it, I mean, again he he can't really worry too much about that stuff. It's it's fine. You just have to go out and do it. But we were shocked a few times. I mean the the Saturday ran quite late and we were like we were ready to be going home or more deadlifting there. So there was a lot of a lot of time. Same within the duel, just those two events format wise keeps everybody on the field for a long time and you're not allowed
to leave even if you're done. So everybody kind of is like, fuck man, it's it's 9:30 PM like why am I out here watching Chandler lift again and and ever again? Meanwhile, Chandler's like, let me do one more. Yeah, you gotta be kidding me, man. But we. And then the Sunday was just, frankly, I was surprised we did that Hulkan's workout, even with the modifications, just having a heavy implement overhead that
gets slippery on the handles. The way it started raining, when the women went out there, we were watching, the men were all watching in the back, like maybe they'll change it for us, 'cause like if it's when we were in the warm up area, it was looking like it was only picking up steam. And then it's hard once you get one heat out there and you get scores like you kind of that you've made your bed, like you got to do it, everybody's got to do it, or at least within that
division. So we thought maybe there'd be another pivot for the men and we were kind of waiting to hear. But it went as planned and it it cooled down a bit. The the the second heat of women I think got the worst. Of it, it was. Rounding when they went out and you know it's it's like those things are annoying when you're in the warm up area and you forget all about it. Once you get on the floor you just like it is what it is.
You do it. I remember getting on the last bike and you when you started the fan, it just sprayed all over your face and the blades all sitting in the water. So you know it little things all through the weekend, but it's everybody has those little frustrations so you can't, you can't worry too much about it. You just have to try to keep rolling forward. Yeah, that was one thing I kept on thinking about is, you know, it was dry.
But then like you said, if one heat goes and then the second heat has something that they couldn't do, like that would just obviously ruin everything. So, you know, I think that was the toughest part for for the Rogue team was trying to figure out do we pause something? Do we modify it even though it's good weather now because it could be bad in the next hour?
I think that's the thing that they they did a good job of as as the weekend went on. Like I said, you can love it or hate it, but like they made decisions and they stuck to them and they just went and did it and that's what happened on the Friday that pushed the day back. That was supposed to be our short day. Like we were meant to be done at
4:00 PM or something like that. And we didn't end up done till like 7 or 8 because they delayed to see if the rain would quit for the monkey bar workout and then it wouldn't. And there was like they were kind of going by 20 minute delays and checking weather report and weather and weather and weather and weather. And then the other day is that
day only had two events. But when you have three events and you got strongman events to juggle with and all this other stuff, the schedule can't just keep pushing like it's like something's got to happen, right or you got to cancel the event or something. So we did nine events as planned. Like some of them changed, but like the duel was a good example.
They took the road, climb out like first thing in the morning and then by the time we did that event it was, it was dry, it would have been, would have been. Fine at all. Would have been totally fine but I think they couldn't take the risk because on Saturday the strong men had to compete a bunch because they actually cut one event from the day before and they got rained right out and they had to finish all their stuff and and we had to pack 3IN and then get three in the next day.
So there just wasn't room in the schedule to to move it even an hour if they're if the rain started. So they just said if we take the road climb out we know we can do it and then that's what they did. So I think as the weekend wore on they started making more decisions like that and they learned from that Friday and by the end they kind of they ended up just doing what they said.
It was like we were kind of waiting, looking at the weather thinking surely something might change but they got they went through with whatever they they committed to and and it was fun. I think given the conditions it's it's actually pretty incredible what we were able to do.
So it's pretty awesome and in hindsight you look back at some of those things and it was pretty rad doing that work under the rain and there's some cool photos and it's it's fun opportunities to do things like that. But I would I'm. I'd rather be an athlete doing that than a fan in the stands. Yeah, the best part. Was the best part was just watching how y'all went down the hill, Roman celebrating and then you just passed him running,
which is which was hilarious. I know he still ended up winning so it didn't matter. But his slide, was it? What? Yeah, Yeah, yeah, The heat. His slide was so ineffective and it looks like it was going to be really effective. Did you watch Emma Lawson try to slide at all? No. So and here's the thing I you can slide and it's fine and it actually like it. It chews your legs up a bit to run down the hill. But we were meant to be running
the hill in the next workout. So I actually use that as like data gathering to be like how well can you run the hill like in the shoes I was wearing like with like what's the traction like going down? Is this something that you can actually free flow down like you would normally or do you have to be really, really careful? And I was like I was able to run down it fine. I was in that workout, your legs were tired at that point. So it was a little hard.
But I'm I was in past years at Rogue, I've been quite good on the hill. So I was kind of like banking on having some hill in that big cat workout and then I was testing it for that and then they took it out. So it was, you know, it was funny. Chandler Slide was the best one, though there's a video of that that's just. Oh yeah, yeah. I can't imagine doing that in the middle of a workout. The females, the females did not slide as well as the guys did.
I don't. Think the I don't think the women tried to. No, I I'm, I think it was Laura tried to. Laura slid down and then Emma Lawson tried to slide down and just got halted and then like got back up and tried to run. It was really funny because the 1st girl slid and it worked and then the next girl slid and it didn't work. Everybody abandoned it really, really fast. It was really, really funny. We're not better at it, We're just heavier, I think.
And yeah, the woman had left less clothing on, so it probably wasn't as aerodynamic and slippery. You mentioned the dual, like, one of the things is, you know, top five, gotta buy. I think there's been a lot of chat about whether the buy was actually helpful, right? Like, yeah, you get guaranteed top 15, but you're starting off with the other athletes that did make it through having some more experience on kind of the best practice of getting over and under the log and doing the sandbag.
Do you kind of what what is your kind of opinion on that one is? Would you rather have the buy and kind of guarantee top 15 or get one more shot at, you know what everybody else has seen it for the first time. No, it's really obviously not an advantage. It's actually really obviously a
disadvantage. The the one thing that they've done well on the three iterations is they've taken feedback every year on it. The first year having a 2O5 squat snatch triple that you have to do touch and go we and by the time that that first heat of or that buy heat goes in that year, this year and the year before, we got to be the first heat in the second round. In the other years we were still
the last heat. So you had to wait for five heats to go plus the recalculation of times and then you finally went and you all come down at the same time. And in that first year they didn't have equipment for us to stay warm with. So you basically cold pull the 205 snatch squat snatch after like an hour of sitting. And so everybody just got like I think two people in our heat advance that year it was like and then the next heat that they went they all said it was way easier.
And then the other disadvantage you have is you've you've lost the five slowest people. So in the first round you can ease into it a little gentler because there's five slower guys that are going to get out but now you're only racing the 10 best guys and then you get put in. So there's less room for error because everybody that's left is better and they have a practice run on you. So but the first year the movements they picked were were
not great for that buy. The next year it was better because they were more, you know, it was lighter weight, it was the loading was more appropriate for having to sit for a long time. But there was issues with obviously people just sprinting through 10 overhead squats, pumping them super fast. It's hard to track hip extension and those things and you get one no Rep and you're out right. So I think those style of workouts to me work best for one if they're the last event of the day.
So if even if you go five times there's no disadvantage for the next event or. And also that you have movements that are really objective to judge like stuff like burpee box jump overs, like the rope climbs that they've done where it's pretty clear if you touch the beam or not, like those things are really great. So this year's iteration even as it was written was really nice over under, over the log, like there's no way to get an O Rep there.
Do you touch the beam do you not on the road climb and then do you get the three bags in the thing? Like it's if there is no judgement call. So that's what's really nice actually about the iteration they had this year. I think they took feedback from the following two years and actually made a a better version but you got to be selective with the movements you pick. It's it's really hard because a judgment call can just trash you
and the buy is not awesome. It's a it's a long time sitting and it's stressful like you're never more stressed than you like. You watch that first three heats go and then we went out and you're like, yeah, and I you you have one shot to try to be good again after sitting for a long time and you're racing the best and then you get to watch. This year we got to watch the other guys go.
So I fortunately won their heat. So I knew I only had to beat one other guy and I was in, which was like, I thought that might be fine. But we weren't fast. Like we weren't the best seat, that's for sure. Yeah, what was the story with the box and touching the box? Like was that actually a requirement or? So no, the way that what had happened was the reason we were delayed so much is they, you know, they took the rope climbs out to make sure they wouldn't have a rain delay.
But then they had a it's a technology delay like the chip timers were not working. And then like there was some issue with synchronicity and something. So the women actually went down and took the field and were ready to go and they brought them all the way back up to the warm up area after like 30 minutes. And then when we saw them come back up, we were like great, we're not going forever. And they they fixed that.
So when we went down they told us hey we had problems with this leading up to the event as a fail safe. Right now they're working. But what we want you to do is we want you to touch the box when you cross the line as well. And they're going to clock time when they see your hand touch
the box. So if your chip fails, they had, I think they had three or two or three different people clock timing each lane so that if if the chip failed they would take the average of those 3 clock times and that would be your score. So it was a pretty good, it was a pretty good fail safe, but it was. That's why like Hopper in the first heat didn't touch his blocks and he's lucky as Chip worked. Yeah, that was. Right, but. It wasn't. Clear.
It seemed like he was not going to get a time like we didn't know until. Yeah so we we had been told like your chip timer should work touch the thing because if it doesn't work for any reason, your score is going to be when you touch the block. But that wasn't like that wasn't your absolute score. If it was still chip timed got. It got it. And then I think what everybody kind of wants to hear is get to the final event. You have a 65 point lead and then you get to that last clean
and jerk, right? And very similar to what happened last year, like what is going through your mind when you're inches from locking out and the bar falls down and you have to get get that thing back up quickly? I've got lots of time. I had 65 points in hand. I don't. I don't have to worry about. It yeah. It's it's not like last year I I. Know.
Well, I think people I understand and and it was annoying to me mostly because I was like, oh, it's it's literally like it's the same Rep it's a queen and jerk at 2:25. And to me that just like, I'm like, oh, it looks like I just like you. Haven't done anything for a year. But the reality of it is like Sunday. I was in a good position going into Sunday and I played the game on Sunday.
I'm not, I'm frankly not super proud of the way I competed on Sunday because the first event, I mean I pushed it pretty hard at the end to try to close the gap on the bike and I I that was fine. I I'm probably started a bit faster than I needed to in that one and stumbled a bit on the cleaning jerks on the way back but have the ground overhead. Second event I straight up just stood by Jeff for the whole workout and then the last one was like, you have a lot of
time. It's a fast workout so you don't have time to fool around. But the way I was going at the clean and jerk in the end, I did my first three and it's like they're getting heavy and I didn't want to sit there and like walk across the line and like, I feel like that just looks bad. So I still tried to push it on the last few reps and when I missed the one, it was like it was just like a bad launch. And I just thought, OK, like don't panic because you have time, but you have time to hit
the next one. I probably could have missed one more and still hit one and and still one but you don't want to you you can't panic, like you can't stop swinging to bat right. Like I think like you miss one and it's like great it's still a 225 cleaning jerk. Like it doesn't. If you start freaking out after you miss one now you're in trouble.
But I just like took a second. I'm like, yeah, you're fine, like do it. I would have rather a like 420 something score I would have got than like a 440 but like it's fine. So it would have been it would have been a cleaner. It would have been a cleaner. Redemption run is what I wanted if I didn't miss the last one. But it's a bit shitty to miss the last Rep of the competition. What? Hey man wins a win. That's true, John. I said he was just trying to give Jeff false hope. Well, he was.
I think Jeff was trying to root on Hopper down the down there, trying to get you Hopper. Wasn't helping him out. And I think he was trying to get Brent across and so that we could get that 3 Canadian podium, we get I. Know it's so close. Crap about that again. I mean, he was probably pretty hurting. I'm not giving Brent shit about that. Are you kidding? That's like he's he's dealing with enough, I think the Universalism one at this point
in his career. But yeah, it's yeah, I mean it was a good the way the event kind of went is I was really good on Friday and Saturday and and Jeff was really good on on Thursday and Sunday. And so there was more events on Friday and Saturday than there were on Thursday and Sunday. Yeah, so I got the win. That's kind of how it went. So your your tickets, time with the family, fewer months? Are you going back to Water Palooza this year?
Yeah, I'll be there this year. Are you is the is Team PB and J coming back or you got different plans? We have to wait and see. All right, all right. What's that I'm going to do both divisions again this year and we'll be, I'm off in the UK there in December for a little bit. So we got a few things coming up. Trying to enjoy some downtime while I can and just I'm beat up. Seems a big weekend. How are the? Hands Both How are the hands and?
There are like, they're a bit, you know, they get cracked. They're a bit like that. Right now they're sore. I feel like that deadlift bar is when you have to do like when you have to do like 15 lifts, It's not very forgiving. So everybody's hands were even pretty sore after that. The monkey bars and the deadlift bar and those 120 snatches in the humidity too. I feel like that shredded my pinkies up a little bit. They took a kick and I think I have like 7 blisters by the end of the.
Weekend better or worse than the games? Different like the fingers is different like I have the big ones like right at the bottom of your hand. So like, when you're gripping A barbell, it sucks. But and the pinkies, like, I can't close my hand really, even on the left, on the right side. But it's just, I don't know, I I feel like it was good experience at the games when I had them this weekend. I just thought, you know, like, you know what, You know what to do.
You've been through this before. It's fun. So yeah, it was. Yeah. And we, we had Kotler on Friday night and he had mentioned that you guys are going to use the deadlift aggro bar. And I was like, yeah, that thing's going to be tearing into your hands, especially after we thought a rope climb too. Like that was going to be a lot. But the rope was, I think, saved you guys. A lot.
I mean, this is the thing, everybody, because of the weather on the monkey bars, Like, I bet you after the log muscle up and the monkey bar workout, we had probably 60% of the field had ripped hands. Like, like, it was just like, it wasn't just you, right? Like, you can sit there and be like, oh, my hands hurt, but like, so does everybody. It's like everybody's hands were taped up. You're trying to figure out a way to grip that deadlift bar and not, like, feel it really bad.
So it was the deadlift bar hurt. That was like for like an hour and a half, just going in and sinking your hands into that bar one after another. It was, yeah. It was a good time. Not so much. Day at least, which was nice. Well, I appreciate you jumping on, man. I don't want to take too much time out of your holiday with the family, so go enjoy the rest of the evening with the family and we'll see you at Water Palooza. Yeah. Thanks so much. See you guys out. There. All right.
See you, Pat. Thanks. Pat later. Am I going to work? I think so. I think so. OK. Man. Let me see like. A month. This is better. This is weird because I'm having to like, do it off my phone. Let me try this. So I'm looking a little bit closer to where you guys are. That'll work. Sorry. So. So you're a married man. Yep, got married. We missed you this weekend. Yeah, I was supposed to come on and things got away from me. I think you and a couple other people were like, hey man, I
wouldn't plan anything. And then I went ahead and did it. And then I realized I was going to have time for nothing. So anyway. Not the best idea, but that's fine. Yeah, well, welcome back. How much of the Rogue did you get to watch? I watched the first event and then I watched the last event and between, I guess between events on Sunday, I watched the muscle up one. Yeah. And I've tried to catch up but it's been it's been an all out Sprint since I've been back.
Well, I'm glad you're back because you did calculate the P score, and I think people might be interested to see how performance score, performance scoring, you know how that looked at Rogue. So before I pull it up, what what were you surprised by or what's kind of the major headline? On I mean scoring. I think everybody's like score. On the P score, yeah. So John, you don't have any context going in to what we're
going to see. So what do you think you would see if you if your performance scored it? I think Laura would probably be higher than A5 point gap. Yeah, I think she would win more easily. And that's that's exactly what we saw, which I mean like thanks. I think that that does the dual skew that at all, though I don't know how you score that one. So the dual was the only one I couldn't rescore and my like my philosophy on that one is it's like an execution based workout.
So if you like, you slip like it's more based on placement anyway. Like is it? It's not really tied to your to your actual performance. Like if you mess up like you, there's no, there's no forgiveness there, so. Did you just give them the points that they scored then in that one? Yeah, yeah. So everything everything is different except for that work out. For the men, I assume the men would be pretty as is. Yeah, it was mostly as is. Unless you saw something I
didn't see you spin. I'm gonna pull it up right now. Yeah. I'm gonna pull it up here on the screen real quick while I do that. Tyler people are they were watching last year following along they had Z score. So what? What is the difference between Z score and P score? So ZZ score, the reps, the seconds, they're all different on a point scale and that made people not be able to understand it very well. And so P scores linear.
I take the top score and the middle score and I say there's fifty points between there, and then based on that spread, it's 50 points down to the bottom of the same distance. So it's like if your best scores 2 minutes and your your average time essentially is 4 minutes, that's a 2 minute window and then 4 minutes to six when it's 6 minutes is the 50 to 0 window. So you have a 4 minute window on the entire scored points of the workout. So that that that's what.
You can score 0 points if you have a time because you're beyond the 6 minute time window of what the. If you're too far below the average, you can get zero. Right. And that's what happened at Crucible, right? Crash. So the only thing I'll I did different. I I wanted to try out this time what would happen if we scored it where like half half the 50 percentile mark to this to the last person was a different line than 50th to the best.
Does that make sense? So that it's it's technically two different slopes and I did that just to just to see how it would play out and it was essentially there was no difference between me scoring it with the aggressive P score where you could go negative and and this. So it worked out well. Yeah, so if you can see on here Laura Horvath, Originally if you look at the rogue scoring had 780 points. Tia Claire Toomey or had 770.
Laura however, keeps about the same number of points, but Tia's drops down to 723, so it's almost a 60 point gap using P score. What was the main culprit on that? What I saw was event I I originally told, I think Brian Friend, that it was event 6 or no event. There was one. OK yeah, event 4. So what was event 4? Event 4 that was oh man, I've. Well, anyway, she actually, she actually made a few points on that one. Instead of the 65 point difference, it was 60.
Oh, 10th inning, yeah. Yeah, but essentially like anytime Laura was ahead, she never, she never felt like that far behind Tia, or anytime Tia was ahead, she never fought, fell that far behind Tia. But Tia had some huge slips, number one being event four and then the other and see, it's like it's tough because it's. Even different, you're saying TA lost ground on event 4? Now TA gained like five points
of ground on event. 4. But then, like, it's just hard because like, anytime Laura lost points, she just didn't lose hardly any. Like in event six, it was straight across, like 90 and 90. She didn't lose any points on that. But then event 6, Tia lost 10 points, 85 and and 10. It's like you do that across a couple events and it's just like you're gonna you're gonna lose
60 points fast. Yeah, I mean that's that's where just because you like lose, you still can actually improve against the other person because you may get more points than the the rogue scoring 'cause you right you you. That gap was closer than maybe you thought it would be otherwise, actually. Looking at it, go ahead, A. Little bit. Tell people about a little bit. For instance, if you look at Danielle Brandon, she's, I think the highest jumper here. Yeah, from 7th to 5th.
That's because of her handstand walking event. She's so far ahead of 2nd place. I mean she gets 100 points and 2nd place would get like 85 points where most of the time first place gets 100 points and 2nd place would get like 97 points because they're not that far behind. But see if you can create your first place has a huge gap, then second place would be like 85, third place would be 83 and then it keeps on going down there. So she makes up ground.
Like a lot more ground than a normal event win would be. And actually, looking at it now, Tia lost twenty additional points when you pee score it on event 9, so in. Is it such a short race? Right. It's such a short race. So in the original scoring she would have got 90 points and then P scoring, she got almost 70 points, 71. So it's like, yeah, she she made a huge loss on that, but it's like Laura was so far ahead of everyone. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when Laura was good, she was really good.
Yeah. But it's a it's surprising, 'cause it's like that's a workout you think Tia would do well at. I'm wondering if she got some no reps or or something like that that slowed her down. She missed. She missed one Rep. Yeah. But she kind of slowed down whenever she knew it was gone. It was over, yeah. On the men's side, we would have a different podium. We would have the Canadian trio. Oh. We would have brought this up with Pat. Like while he was here. Yeah, you.
Knew that ahead of time. You should have said that. Brian I wasn't thinking about it. It's alright, but I need to. I need to get. Make it on the show. I need to get him off, get him, get him back to his family. But yeah, I mean, Brent would have moved up. I don't think there's. I mean, Jay Crouch. He's still really close. Yeah, Jay Crouch makes the biggest jump. Speaking of Jay Crouch, can anybody guess his age in the comments? I think I know.
In the comments, Tyler. In the comments, how old do we think that Jay Crouch is? 'Cause I did not think he was. His age, he was that young or that old I. Think Kathy's from Australia. She might know. Yeah, If I if I'm going to put money on anybody guessing it's going to be Kathy. Every. But is this 23? Come on, no. Nobody guessed 23. So you're. You're wrong. Yeah, 2424. Jay is 24 years old. He's been in the sport for basically ever. I I didn't have it.
I had no idea he was that young. And so I think about his trajectory and his improvement. Like I was thinking it was more like 2728 and it was after 3030 place, 30th place performances the last couple years. It's like, yeah, he's not going to improve anymore, but the guy was only 2122. 23 So Young. Like the guy has so much room and his deadlift was great. Like he's stronger than you think he is. And I think my body changed the most between like 23 to like 28,
no way. I didn't like, yeah, 14 and 15 like it does you grow and. You get no way. You get, you get like you get stronger and stuff, but it like you're still weak. But then like between 20, I would say 23 and 28, that's when like you start to get like I think you guys were talking about this on the show. Like your trunk starts to grow like you just start to thicken up, like you start to get actual mature muscle. And so it's like Jay still has all that to go through.
Well, we, we can't put too much on that, 'cause they all thought that Hoffer was going to do terrible and in that event and then he comes out and crushes it, so, right. But no, I mean, you're right, like he has. I think he has a lot of room to continue to grow. And I I personally, I think he has a better chance of continuing to climb up the leaderboard than I thought he did, just without that fact. Good of a chance because I don't see it. You don't see it like you.
You think this was like a A1 year flash in the pan. He's going to be back in the 15 because he. Did good at the games too, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think he's like a Yonukowski. He's just a consistent perennial athlete that just kind of. Yeah and I like, I think he'll he'll he can improve he is improving but like I think like you know 6th or 5th is like the top that the Super Saiyan J crap I don't see I don't see the qualities that can of a winner go past that. I don't think I disagree.
I could see him. I could see him push for top five like a. Yonukowski Like I I genuinely see. That's what I see. I see a Yonukowski. It's not a bad career, but no, no it's not. But we're talking about continuing to improve. Like, I think we all can agree, like Hopper could eventually get to the podium. What did you have him at? Alan Pepper could eventually go to the get to the podium. I mean, I know some of you guys
think they can win. I don't think they can win, but I could see that in the future, right? Ricky could eventually win. Like we could see. You know what I'm saying? There's a there's a difference. I don't see that in Jay Crouch and like my opinion could change, but I don't. I don't see. It I want to see what he does next year to before saying that he could be on the podium, but I definitely think he has a top five. 10th next year. We'll see.
I mean if he improves on that and gets his 5th or 6th, I think he has that ability to maybe keep moving up. But we got to see that year over year progression. So him getting so like this is the way I like to use P score is. It kind of implicates that he has the ability to be like 6th in this field, but what are we missing? We're missing like some weird swim event or some weird like test like that. We're missing like, what are you talking about? Well. He has.
He probably has more home run ability. In the In the games, yeah. Yeah. For what? Well, this is showing. This is showing that he's he's up, he's up, he's outperforming his place. Yeah. No, no. No relatives. I I get what you're saying, but I think he's, I think he's more of a consistent person and I don't think I don't see the home run hits from Jay Crouch. Right, but what?
So if we're going to extrapolate this and say, OK, this is equivalent to the games like you're you're, you always say this is the best outside competition for for guessing towards the game. So what are we missing at rug that we're going to get at the games we're missing like the weird swim events we're missing And those I think would do better for Jay because he's not as heavy, he's he's a little bit
more athletic, stuff like that. So yeah, but every single strength thing that we've ever seen, he would take a somewhat of a hit on regarding the top five. And then we found out he's a very good deadlifter deadlift. Being a great deadlifter does not mean you're great at anything else. Patrick Bellner is just strong enough to be OK, right? At every lift there is, Nash is probably his best one, right? But a clean and jerk or a clean, He's like about tenth. Yes or no Squatting.
He squats 465 about 10th, right? Deadlift. He's deadlift. Freaking 600 lbs. Like Jay Crouch has the same ability that Velner has that that Hiller has. Hiller is the same way. Hiller's strength numbers are not insane except his deadlift. His deadlift is insane. I know he bench presses a lot. I don't need him in the comments if he's listening. But. But you hear, you see what I'm saying, right? It doesn't mean strength all the way around. It definitely doesn't mean
Olympic lifting strength. It's just some people are really, really good deadlift. There's an anatomically, their body is geared to deadlift, and usually it means they're a bad squatter. But Kyra Milligan proved me wrong on that. Usually. Oh yeah, usually it does spin. What were our bets last week? I don't think you want to go through that. Time. I want to go through it. Let's go through it. I think I owes. I think I owe John 40 bucks, right?
Well, the first one was, and I don't know if you looked at the leaderboard close enough, but the first one was Lazer Jukic or BKG. The second one was Chandler, Chandler, Smith or Lazer. Jukic, it actually came out way closer than you think. Tyler and BKG Chandler. Smith. Lazer Jukic now at the. Beginning of the competition. It's kind of sucks that you didn't watch it because in the beginning of the competition BKG was like 6th and Chandler was like 4th until Sunday and.
And Lazar was like. 17th until and Lazar, yeah, Lazar was was 17th until Sunday. And then those two both kind of choked it down and Lazar picked it up, which is crazy because it was like so much of a bad bet for you. And then it actually turned to pretty solid, like, you know what I mean, like pretty close back. So there was, there was a bit of drama about my picks last week. So I I I kind of wanted to walk to. I actually did end up like Travis was close.
Nobody predicted BKG that low and I was the only one who was close on that. And then Jay, I think I got pretty close on too. I think I guessed him 8th and he was 9th and then so like. Yeah, on the men's side, you did much better, the women. So. What was Bounder for you? Oh, he was. He was not. He was not. He was not he. Was not. I'm glad. I'm glad you had these miscellaneous picks that are happened to be close to
together. Tyler So I I I wanted to walk through that cause some folks who are like being a little bit too outraged by it. So I'm trying I'm just trying something different. I was trying to pick like more correlating events that I thought that were going to correlate. And so getting ready for the wedding last week I had very little time and so like I was rushing through this process trying to do like this new thing and then I ran out of time and spend was like where's your
picks? Where's your picks And I was like I I have to send him something. So I was just like, do I send him this garbage? Like, I knew it was hot shit and I was just like, this is going to drive John nuts. You love Hopper. You love Hopper. I'm. I don't know. Well, no. So. Hopper. Hopper, I I placed him up. I was like, I'm putting him up regardless what. It's been for a while. Like, that's not terrible. Yeah, no, I mean, he didn't do terrible anyway. I expected a little more out of
him. Is it not weird that these guys just continue to get the same places that road? Travis and Tyler or Travis? And Jason, yes, yeah. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. So anyway, I mean it was the men's leaderboard was all over the place all weekend. I mean they were just up and down. There was no consistency. The women's like the top six kind of just started to. Pull away trash until day. Three.
Right. And. And one great day shows him he moves up from, I don't know, 17th up to 8th or something crazy. Yeah, yeah. And so yeah it's we do need to compare our picks and see that just just how off you were. But I think people would be you're not you're not as far off as you as people may have thought right now I don't where did you have a hopper, John? Was that about did you seven got back seventh. Yeah. He's in 7th. Oh, OK. That's cool. I I don't.
I don't remember where I had them. You. You. Have the list. I think, Kathy, I can't believe you scheduled your wedding. I think I had. Hopper like 10. I think I had Hopper like 10. Yeah. I think when we scheduled it, I like, I knew I was going to do it in late October and then so I think I just said one day like the 27th, which I didn't know was a Friday. And then and then later I went and checked and I was like, oh shit, it's it's on Rogue.
And I was like, I can't, I can't back out of this now like we have. We're too far in, so whatever. Patrick Patrick Clark, Crouch had eight top ten finishes at the Games this year. His worst finish was 22nd. That sounds a lot like Maderos. Yeah, like, like, I I feel like he's a very consistent athlete. But like, if those are, you know, Maderos would have eight top fives, right? And then that's the difference. And I mean, maybe Jay can get there. I just don't see it.
Yeah, Billy Dementa. Is it true that Pat's last event was 7 seconds away from taking him second again? So it was actually not. He had to finish within 9 seconds. Yeah, he said he. Had plenty of time. I'm like Pat, it was closer than you think. Yeah, I don't know if he saw my article, no. So if you yeah the the article I wrote about Pat's how close it was.
Yes, there were a handful of athletes that were right behind where he finished and so he was going to finish in like 422 and here it is. He ended up finishing at 441. He lost 18 seconds from the no Rep he tied Garrett Clark. Granted, he's probably taking his time After that, though, I'll be like, OK, settle down. Like make sure you hit this.
I mean he he did have time, but he could not have missed again given the time that he took like, you know, there there was probably a little bit more panic than he was willing to admit or at least I would have been more panicked thinking is this going to happen again? But yeah, I mean you look at that like if he would have fallen behind Tudor Magda. So if he had lost 10 seconds, he would have ended up losing in a heartbreak fashion, the Jeff Adler.
So it was very close. And yeah, that was it. It was a it was a a close one for him. All right, next topic. So Tyler, you got to miss out on this, but Saturday was a long day. Yeah, so can you guys explain to me what happened? I, I maybe a lot of the fans know what happened, but like I from what I can gather, they just kept delaying and like or the setup of the event wasn't the right right thing right? So go go ahead, Jung. So they had the dual and you know how the duels are like those.
But that was the the duels delayed, too. Right. But I mean like it got delayed for rain but then. The and technical. Issues like we're just going to go on and then, I mean, that was like an hour or so. It started like an hour later than what it was supposed to. And then the duel that events like you, you know how those events are, they just take forever, like like unnecessarily forever.
We don't know why they take so long to organize the times, but they freaking do. And it just takes so long to run 20 seconds and then that event. And then like, they cut the ropes out of that event and there's supposed to be a rope climb. And it didn't rain at all. They delayed because they thought there was going to be rain. And then it didn't rain at all. And then it took some out and it it was, yeah, so. So they did that. And then they did the deadlift.
And the deadlift, they started the girls. They were like, OK, we're going to go up by 5 lbs now at like 375. Well, they got so you everybody had to hit each weight. Yeah. What? Well, no, it was like the sandbag, Like the sandbag ladder. Like they had four girls go at once, 321 switch, four more girls, 321 switch, four more girls. But you had 32nd windows to do. This probably could have been done in 10 second windows, like you did. You're not going to try the deadlift again.
It's not like an Olympic. Lift. The couple did. It was futile but. Yeah, yeah. And so that took so long to narrow it down. And then when they got to 375, there was 5 girls left 385, maybe it was one of the one or the other. And then they started and they only went up by 5 lbs. And all of those girls went to like 400. All of them. And then finally Kyra Milligan got out. Tia got out, Tia hit 400, got out at four O 5. And then freaking Danny and Laura and Alexander went to like
4:20. And then Laura got out, Danny got out, and Alex hit it. But they had to take up even more time because it was just down to two or three and so they wanted to give him enough time to recover to get to their next one and so it. Just took so long. When I went back, like when I went back and looked at it, the women's duel took almost an hour. 15 The men's duel took an hour, The women's deadlift took almost an hour and a half, and
the men took an hour and. It really felt like they tried to speed up the men's both times, right? Like their turnarounds were like much faster and all that. And I don't know why we all just do that in the 1st place like it's. Not. Like, man, that took a long time. Let's try to like, let's get a move on here. Like, just just do that from the start. I left Tyler. I watched the deadlift from a pizza place and it was it was fine. I saw everything I could not like I was done after the
women's. The women's like it took and like if you stayed from the men's it was like 1030 by the time the men got done And then spin, thank God, was like cancel the show. Hey, we're just going to go on tomorrow And I'm like, yeah, sounds sounds good. I think, I think everybody was, everybody was done like it just felt like even on our, our, our thread, like everybody's just like dying watching this thing and like we're dying party.
Oh man, it was. Pull it up on a screen, but then like start the stream and like yeah, rogue's doing that so you might as well do the same thing. I don't have enough monologue to cover the amount of dead time there was and so like at that point. You're just gonna be starting talking about lunch you had or something?
That's that's my question to you guys is like all right we have let's skip Thursday, we had three days of competition like how that takes all day like even even Friday like Pat said, it was supposed to be a short day, it was supposed to be from like late or early afternoon to mid afternoon they were done. It ended up stretching out to the mid mid evening.
You have that, you have all day Saturday, which those two events took seven hours with lots of downtime and then you have Sunday. Like, how do we make it so such that people that are not die hard CrossFit fans are interested in watching this thing? Like it's a huge time commitment. So the the other format would be like the weightlifting format where it's like we're just going to add 5 lbs and if you can hit it you step up and if not like you're out right.
But you don't have to hit each each weight. You just come in where you want and then leave where. You want I like that? I like where you want. It doesn't drive the drama. Maybe it does, I guess because then like the. Drama is at the end. You wait this whole time for the payoff at the end, right? The sandbag event was really boring. Until it wasn't. And then it was awesome. Right. Nobody cares if you miss a deadlift at 5:15. Right.
Like like that's no. Unless it was Velner or you know, it'd be 615 or Roman or something like no. But I'm saying like if if Roman or Velner or Adler went out that early, like that would be kind of an exciting. I went out at 5:45. That was pretty interesting. But yeah, like, I think you could just come in when you want to come in, but once you come in, you don't get to go back out like you would do every lift after. That you're just done, right? Right.
So like the 2014 clean and jerk ladder that they had at the game. Yes, and I mean, I. Think you could come in like 275? Yeah, 325 and like it. It kept going from there. I don't think it was 325 because I think Rich hit like 3:30 or something. I think it was three O 5 but but they were like it wasn't everybody went together, it said 321 switch and then like you continued to move on at some point. At some point there was 30 guys
lifting at the same time. Yeah, but when you run it like that, plus you do it the last people, like the way they did it. Like Rich was like the last guy to go. I think Khalipa was in first at that point. So Khalipa was the last guy to go. Rich was the 2nd to last guy to go to get on a platform. So like, you have the last people go anyway, right? And like you get all of the drama. You still get Chandler hitting 615 or 610 whatever you hit, and they're just in a line.
And I maybe that's easily, maybe that's more easily done at the games than is it Rogue, because there's a little bit more space, the games, you know what I mean? Rogue's just had that like 4 platforms. Yeah. But I don't understand, right. Alex Kazan had to do 18 deadlifts at, like, really, really heavyweight. Yeah, that's a lot. On top of doing the dual, which was all of the sandbags and 120 snatches. I did the Hulk hands workout and it was gnarly.
Do you have the Hulk hands? No, I don't have the whole hands. I just used 70 LB dumbbells. But I'd used what I had. Yeah, I did a plate push for the sled drier, OK, but it was gnarly nonetheless. The I did 5 cleaning jerks and then I put that fifth one down. I was like. Bro. It's so hard to do. That's something I was I was upset about was the I think I caught was they took the the pegboard out, which totally changes the workout. Especially for the women. Yeah, And it was just like, oh.
Well, and then they put enhancing walking this. So they basically were like, hey guys, Daniel, Brandon's not doing well enough. When you got to, we got to. Give her a win. And Victor Hoffer? Right. And Victor Hoffer, yeah. Because I was watching. I was watching Travis in that and he was doing well. But I was like, man, he would have done so much better had he had the pegboard. And I think it changes the entire stimulus of the workout
overall. Like you don't have to sit there and yeah you're you have to your core is going to be using an explosive mash or fashion and then it has to like be sit there and isometric during the climb. And I was just like, I don't know. To me it was I get you want to be compassionate. Workout. I'm fine with the workout, but it is a completely different workout. Right. You want to be compassionate towards Bill and Katie and what
they pulled off. And it's like, we still appreciate that part, but it's like, damn it, like. It's hard, the weather. The weather really, really makes it hard, right? Yeah. And like for the dual, you know, speeding up, my recommendation is you do the men and the women, right. And so you do the run around of men, You do one round of women, vice versa, whichever way. So when you're taking the 20, when you're taking 10 minutes to go, tally the scores the other group is going. Oh, I see.
And yeah. And set up the sandbag so one is on the right side and one is on the left side. Color code them so that like it's. You know if your men, you turn to the right, if your women turn them to the left to get your sandbags up and they're in the line instead. So they're not in the way and it would just move things along. You probably get done in an hour and a half for both. Yeah, like or or faster. Steph, do we think they'll find a new location next year?
They'll have indoor options. I got that. I got the vibe that they would like. It was hard because of the rain, like you didn't really, truly know how many people were there. But it made me think like this might be the last year they do it at at a baseball stadium, 'cause it didn't feel like that many people were there on Friday it. Did it did feel like there was less people than last year? OK, yeah, I still.
Felt like a lot of people were there, but it did feel like there was less people than last year. Yeah, and you know, kind of the big, the bigger question beyond these two events is like is there a way to do something to to help bring people into the sport that doesn't require, I mean I don't know, 20 hour commitment over the weekend or more like it's such a tough. If you're going to watch the games, that's that's basically a 20 hour weekend. Like, I mean I again, this is the biggest.
The winner of this got $278,000. This is the biggest CrossFit competition that is not the games. All of the fittest people in the world do this competition. Like the truly the fittest people in the world. I don't think the 20 hour commitment thing, like I don't think that's a if you are a fan, you're going to watch it. It's not Rogue is not something that's on ESPN, It's not something that they try to broadcast. I feel like Rogue is more for the CrossFit fan.
It's not for reaching people. That's the games. That's CrossFit. But there's been a lot of talk of making it a season, making it, selling a big package to ESPN, having all these different, you know, competitions on there in the offseason. I'm just trying to figure out like you can't can't dedicate that many weekends to only watching this.
Right. So it's like you're you sort of move to more of like a baseball game thing where it's like you have to have day competitions first of all I think. But it's like how you can't really get a good test of fitness in the most you can do is probably 5 events and that's really starting to push it. And then it's like how many people want to travel way far away to do a day competition.
Like there's all these weird things and that's where I think, like it should be more regional, where it's like you compete with people that are in within like a state level or something, but it's. So much so much with this. I I get what you're saying, John, but it's like, do we keep bashing our heads in the wall and trying to get more viewers while also not changing anything?
Like we're not the the viewer experience of the sport is no different than it was in 2014. Is Rogue's goal to get more viewers? I'm saying would be, I'm saying. Or any any, any competition that we watch, whether it's Rogue, Dubai, Madrid, Water, Palooza, anything like from the elite standpoint of the most eyeballs are on it. Like is there a way to make it more viewer friendly so that people can actually watch it that aren't die hard fans?
What you guys are suggesting will water down the competition and I think more eyes will see it but won't care. Like like the you'll lose the die hard fans if you do regional competitions, if you do state competitions, if you do things that are just one day and not the weekend, you can't have a total test of fitness. The winner for Dang sure ain't making $278,000. If you're doing those things like I get what y'all are saying, I think you should
appreciate what we have. And the winner of Rogue had the The money for Rogue has gone up every single year. Every year it's gotten more money. See Katie, anything bad John said about you, he just made-up for it, right? We're not. I mean, John, it's like we're just, we're just pontificating here. It's not like anything we're saying is going to be. I know. No, I know, I know. But I want y'all to think about this like there's only one other competition where we get to have
everybody. I don't care if it's viewer friendly. This is the only other competition in the whole world where all the fittest people in the world gather up and do it. I kind of like that it's small because you get to see the athletes much more. I feels more personable. I don't. You get to see all the like if you go to Rome, you get to see the Brian friends, you get to see the Matt Fraser's walking around, You get to see the Medeiros's in his suite.
Like they're all there, all the all the big names are there. You know what I mean? I'm not saying you shouldn't. People are. I'm saying is there a way to condense it and make it so that it's actually packageable? Or you know what package? Do you want? I'm saying that. Tell me what you want. I want something that I don't have to that and again, look like I watch all this stuff, right?
Like, that's not the issue. It's getting the people that are also cross fitters who don't have the time or don't care to watch 10 hours a day of a competition. Well, that's what. YouTube is for Fast forward. Yeah, but that's day that that's like week after, that's when it. Doesn't have live numbers. Yeah, I'm saying like can you condense it? Can you make it into a three or four hour day but still get the same type of competition? I don't think you can I. Don't think you can do the same
events. You definitely can't do the same events, but I don't think I like it. It's a sliding scale. It's like what? What do you want to optimize? Because that's what you're going to move towards. But what the the the story I was going to tell him. It's like I hope I don't hurt anybody's feelings. Like one of my friends won the Pensacola Beach Brawl Elite Competition, but it's like I don't care who won Pensacola. It was a it was a day long competition. Yeah, he's always yelling.
He's always, he's always yelling. I don't. I don't take offense. Yeah, I mean I just just throwing it out there like is there. We always talk about growing the sport. Can we grow it be in a competition that takes that long, that much to watch that that's. That's always the game, right? That's. But then you like turning John into a like an avatar. There's there's people who are in kind of his camp, but it's like they want it the way it is.
And I don't disagree with what you're saying, John. Like for the most part, I'd probably rather have it this way. Like if it's having it this way or having something that's way deluded, I'd rather have it this way. It's just, you know, when people keep using the friggin phrase like professionalization, professionalization just equals money and money equals eyes on the day that it's live competition and it's like, how do we, how do we move that needle? And I don't. I don't.
Know the two. $178,000 is moving the needle. That's just Rogue's. Money that's Rogue going in the hole I. Hit it, but it's more money than anybody else is doing. Yeah, but what happens when Rogue has a rainy day? Rogue's well, Rogue's got. We have one red one. We have 1 golden goose. Right. Like even Dubai couldn't keep up their crazy prize money. And it's not even crazy close to Rogue. The golden goose that keeps on giving. I don't think Rogue is going to
ever go away, dude. But the the question, John, is if we have more viewers, could we have more competitions like Rogue where $278,000 is commonplace? I think you'd have to grow a lot more for that to happen. Right. And that's the question is how? I don't, I don't think you make it, OK. I don't think you make another water palooza in California.
I think you just whatever resources you want to do in California, just double the size of Florida or double the size of California, just move the whole thing. I don't think splitting the two up is the best thing to do. You think you can double water Palooza? They're trying to make a whole nother one in California, Tyler. Yeah, I understand that because they know they can't do, they can't double the size of Water Palooza as it currently is. Have you been to Water Palooza I?
Have. Not it's crazy. There's no room for anything and you want to put. I'm saying I'm 20. 1000 people there in a day the. Venue. OK, even still, it's going to become, it's going to become like going to Kings Island or Disney World. You're not going to be able to walk around. It's like this isn't fun anymore for anybody. People go to Water Palooza every year. At 10,000, not at 20,000. That's more people. Like what, John the The Water Palooza venue. You can't move it from Bayfront.
No, no you can't. It's like there there. People have suggested, people have suggested taking it away from there and like go into a different place. And I'm pretty sure that that Dylan and O'Keefe back when he was involved was like, absolutely not like you take away the Bayfront Park and you take away water Palooza, that's. Fine. I mean, no, that's fine If it's a culture, like, it's a culture. I get it. But I just don't think just, hey, let's just make another
one. I don't think that's going. To be the I don't and and Travis I'm not saying like a competition is 4 hours and that's it and you walk you go home but like could it be. Previewing experiences. Could it be 3 nights in a row that fits within 3/4 hour windows? I I just you can't do events like that. Oh, I don't hate this idea.
So what if this is this is a good idea so you have like a a participation based competition so that people like Travis at vindicate can sell shirts all day but primetime 6 to 9 is the elites only. You run it for three days and then then we get to see those and. But you'd have to fit 32 to three events in that three to four hour window. I think you're doing a disservice to the athletes. When you do that, they have to recover. You're not going to get their best like one you're. Limited.
I'm not. Though you're limited to the events you can do if you're able to. Hey, we're going to do 3 events in three hours. I agree, but it's not a disservice to the athletes to pay them. No, but you're not. You're like, you're not going to get to recover. You're not going to get to like they're not just Madden players that. You. But what did you say about the deadlift? What did you say about the deadlift, John? They don't need enough time. Whatever they get, they get.
They're fine. Don't, don't, don't. Keep extending this thing out, for one. Event for one event, yes, I'm talking recovering from event. You can't crush people and then just crush them again in 10 minutes like you can't then it's it's a different, you're not. It's a different thing then, and I don't think, I think that's irresponsible. I think you're you can. Program to fit that though. No, you can, you can. But then it's different. It's it's a different test of
fitness that way. You know what I mean? Like you can't. They're all going to be sprinty events and it's way, way different. Yeah, but this was games level programming. Like games level programming probably shouldn't be that viewer friendly for the most. Part correct? And that's what I'm saying about rope. You want to keep that games level programming. Yeah, yes, the games people are here, if you.
Want to do local competition if? You want to do local competitions and state invitationals or whatever that is, then that can be done in three hour time periods and we don't have to and that can be run like a local competition, right, Your local one day competitions but with the fitter people, with fitter you know people, I just don't think that's going to be like the money grab y'all think it's going to be. So essentially we would need to cut 3 events out of the competition that already
existed, is what we're saying Like limit it down to six, three days, 6 events. Six events. It's like a regional, a regional volume for these types of competitions. But do it in a three hour window each night. Yeah, Patrick Clark here. Castro does it every year. Sunday at the Games is essentially just three workouts in five hours. Like, yes, and they did break up some time to give people time to go between Vendor Village and stuff.
Now the question is, can you do, can they do that three days in a row, Right, Like. No. That, that's the that's the question. And one of them workouts for Dang ain't like a long endurance thing. Right. The last thing's usually very short. It's all Crossfitty stuff. I, I, I've actually never thought of this before. You, if you run a competition across the competition, you always have the men and the
women together. But what if we segregated the competitions so it's like men did like this event and then like women did like like Rogue has an event in November that's for the men, and then Rogue has an event in December that's for the women. You can speed up the heats like there's no transition you have to worry about like. I don't like that either. I think, I think going back and they're completely different pools. I think going back and fight is fine because you need that.
You do need the rest between the events. But if you're trying to fit 2 to 3 workouts in a three hour window, like, you really got to be under shit. Oh, 100%. And I think that's it'll be interesting to see what the CrossFit Games in 24 looks like with only the individuals and teams and what that schedule looks like because it needs. To bring back the Invitational. OK. We can talk about that too. I mean that was that was even worse.
You want to talk about volume and but like look at what they could do. It was a one day competition for the most. It was one day, right? It's not 2 days. Yeah, it was one day. It was like 2 hours like 4. Events and it like they flew through it like so much volume, it's way worse. No, what I'm saying is you could have like a series, an Invitational series of like 7 different ones and then if this is in the offseason it would be after Rogue right?
And just hosted by CrossFit. It could be during December, January and then athletes, athletes can register for it. You can pick to be in it, right? They can have invitations, but you can pick to be in it if you want to be in it, like you're going to enter your name. Obviously everybody's not going
to want to do that. But if you're in it, you have seven different dates, it's every three weeks, and then it's a series of basically invitationals, and then there's a winner at the end of it and you win this the invitation, the CrossFit Invitational series or something like that. And I can give you 7 one day competitions of elite athletes, 3 events, four hours each series, whatever, like however you want to work it. And that gives you something in
the offseason. And you cover a lot of time that way because it's like once at 1:00 every like two or three weeks, you know? What I'm saying. So now instead of having sanctionals like we did have, Rogue owns 6 sanctionals is what you're saying? No, not Rogue, not Rogue. This is CrossFit. CrossFit. Owns 6 sanctional. No, it's not a sanctional. It's this is just something. Small one day, yeah. Yeah. No. Like like it's called, it's called something different. It's not.
Yeah. It's not a it's not hey Filthy 150. It's not the Mac. It's not. It's not the Syndicate. It's not. A It's not. So it's not so different from that, John. Those competitions were three days, then I'm just. Saying those gave you, those gave you leeway to go to the games, right? That's what sanctionals were. You win that, you go to the games. This is not, this is a whole different thing. It's just a series series. And then the winner you get, you get a couple, you get some change.
If you win one, you win the whole thing, like aggregate, you get $100,000, you win one, you get $10,000. What I'm saying is we were almost there. All we had to do is make a couple changes. All divided up. It was all divided up. Everybody. Had their own thing. Everybody ran their own competition. This wasn't CrossFit. They were like, hey, we want y'all to. Everybody runs their own
competition. We're going to take like 19 of y'all and everybody's confused about what works and what doesn't and everybody doesn't know and who qualifies. And then like the ninth person down got to go to the games. It wasn't like that at all. This is a whole different thing. It means nothing for the games. It's like rogues, its own
competition. This is Crossfit's own thing they do in the offseason and obviously you're not going to get like you might not get like the Bell Nurse or the Mederises of the world, but you could get the people underneath them. Yeah, I I mean again, I think this one sums it up that this shows why they don't change the structure because no one can agree. So I don't, I don't know.
I mean, I just had the thought of it as I was sitting there on Saturday like dying, watching this all day thing and seeing the duel go and the deadlift go and I'm like I'm on our what of this like our 12 or 13 of being engaged in what's going on at Rogue and thinking like is there a better way to, you know, to bring somebody in. So that's really what what I wanted to talk about there. I got on a lot of tangents. I apologize. It did. It did. But that's good.
There's a lot of things to think about. Dave Castro's we can review. He brought up that the the 2024 Open will remain at three weeks. Are you a fan or do you like the old five week? A lot of people are throwing out four week. Where do you stand on it? We'll start with John. Yes, I'm a fan. I think the Open should be 3 weeks and then you get a week
and then it's quarterfinals. I think how it's run right now is is I like, I enjoy how it's ran right now a lot because if you're in the quarterfinals it is five weeks and if you're not in the quarterfinals it's three weeks and it is if the five week thing does, I agree everything with, Castro said. It does put like a damper on affiliates like they it's hard to be on fire for five weeks straight. Usually by the third week people start to Peter out.
Which he also said like as he got the Week 345, it started to tail off. I do think it's. I do think the program is going to get criticized a lot because it's only three events and there's probably going to be a part A, Part B and I know Chase hates that because the Part B is going to be a Max out lift, right? Like, oh man, it'd be so cool to do a Part B. That was just another workout I. Think they'll get to that At some point? They might.
Get Yeah, I think so too. I. Wouldn't put it past them, but like, I enjoy just having three weeks. I think for the most part it gets everybody. It gets everybody in that's supposed to be in top 10% is not a hard goal if you're if you're fit. You know what I mean. If you're relatively fit, usually the best person in your gym won't have a problem getting the quarterfinals. Like in in a local gym, like not even like a competitive gym.
Just he's really good at CrossFit or she's really good at CrossFit. You don't even have to lift very heavy and then you get quarterfinals right after that you got a week and then quarterfinals. Like, I I like how the current setup is and I think we should continue that and I don't think we should make a habit like that's one of them. Things like I don't want to change. We change every freaking three
years or two years. Like, let's just You want to professionalize the sport, quit changing the freaking sport and just have a system, Tyler. I I mean, there's no point in arguing. Yeah, it's like obviously the better way to go. It's. I get nostalgic for the five weeks. I actually enjoyed week four and five.
When people started bitching, I I thought it was funny and like, I enjoyed this log of of Week 5. When you were like mentally, it was just mentally the hardest thing because you like had to amp yourself up again. Like you were probably going to have to do the workout twice, like it. There was all these different factors and it was just it was part of the game that I enjoyed, but it was not a sustainable part of the game if you run an affiliate. So I totally understand. I don't.
I've never had a problem doing 5 weeks. Like, no, I mean it's. Like a It's just another workout. You get fit enough. It's just it's just your morning workout and then you're going to work out again in the evening. Like it's not right but. Yeah. And you're right, like quarter finals. Quarter finals is week five. It it, it's even kind of better than Week 5 because it's like you're a little bit refreshed. Usually you have that like a week off or something and then you do quarterfinals.
So I really, I really enjoy that. But yeah, it's it's great. And if anything, they should have more events throughout the year that are like 2 weeks or something just so we can keep a participation base going throughout the year, something different sort of like the the team thing that they used to do, the team series or I don't know, whatever. Else I hated all those different series. Never got any. Part I did too. They just they they never landed. I liked the spirit of them, but
they never landed the right way. Well, because you knew that Ben Smith and whoever Camille or whoever was going to team up on Team Rogue was going to do that. And then it was like, I'm never going to win a prize. It's not really. There's nothing there for it. So I'm not going to do it. What we got here, Patrick Clark, the Open isn't supposed to be a while. We're in the test. It's a barrier of entry to the next stage. I just see the comments. Like hiding you do.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. I disagree this is. For the public, I think it it should be well-rounded. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not, it's not, it's not going to be, it's not going to encapsulate all of fitness. You can't test everything in three weeks. But like I thought the OK, like if you take last year's open, I thought for the most part that's well-rounded. It's just not like it just doesn't cover a whole bunch of you can't be super broad.
Yeah, you can't. Yeah. Right, but I he's not saying it should just be three single modality things. That's not what he's saying. It's just people in the comments are like saying like it's not you can't cover a whole thing of fitness and he's just saying it's a barrier to the next stage. It's not supposed to be the well-rounded, get all test. That's the games. I think the the test themselves should be well-rounded, all three of them.
But yeah, you're not going to get like a 5K response and then mixed with like a one Rep Max deadlift like you're not. But I mean a shuttle run bonanza and A1 Rep Max thruster right after it. Like, I feel like. I feel like for the most part, they're pretty good about this. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think they're great, but the spirit of it should be, should be that they're well-rounded snapshots of fitness. You can't.
It's as much as you can encapsulate in the 15 minute time period 315 minute time periods. Mr. Cherry If it stays at the current format, the open will never matter. That's probably the more the more money is involved, it'll start mattering. The winner of the Open got $50,000.
It would matter. No. If you did, you listen to Chase and Bill did a podcast on this and it Chase's. One of Chase's things from the Open was if you are top ten or something you should get a buy in the quarterfinals or something like that. Or or no or I think it was semi finals and I said well why not 30 because then like then you make it a real like 10's really high but 30 the top 30 athletes like people will really try for that. I like, I like the top ten idea.
Like you get a, you get, you get to go straight to semi finals. Yeah. But like, you have to think about it like maybe like the top five in each region, because, yeah, you're dealing with regions. Yeah, the top five in the open in each region. The top ten in the in North America because it's a bigger region, maybe. Well, I mean you can, you can see who's North America West and North America East. Like it like like you get top ten because it's, it's both of
those, right? Yeah. But only 10 make it. I don't think you can do much more than five because only 10 make it, right. So there's only six spots available. Well, no, they they qualified as semis and then there's there's still be 60 going to semifinals. It would just be 10 to get quarter finals. That's why I'm saying since the barrier to entry, the barrier to entry of semis, is so low, like why not just make it 30? I was jumping. I was jumping. Yeah, no, I understand. I. Got confused.
I got confused. You got. Yeah, I agree with you guys. I agree with. You guys and then all of a sudden like you have some real competition going on, that's it's worth it. It's a simple change. Nothing has to change for that. Yeah. And nothing would have changed. All of those guys would have made the semi. Yeah, yeah. Anybody that makes top ten in the Open is going to semi finals.
Patrick Clark, since there's no prize money for the quarters, arguably the quarters is the most important to the just the huge cut, right? Like, you know, obviously there's more on the line at semi finals, but for a lot of the athletes, there's probably 100 of them that are in it for the top 60 or in, you know, the smaller regions, 50 out of the, you know, are in that picture for the top 30. So yeah. And work programming really matters. They're still specialists in
quarterfinals. It's it's really tough. There's a lot of good athletes that don't make it every year just cause of one mess up. Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of the debate centers around the sport. You have the the the non 10 top 10%, the bottom 90% and then the affiliate owners they all have different perspectives right? Like the sport it probably works best the way it is 3 weeks then
you go to quarter finals. The the other 90% say I'd probably like to have more time in the open to participate in it and then the affiliate owners are like please stop. I don't. I can't talk. Anymore. I don't want to buy any more tape. I might be able to do, I might be able to do 4 weeks, but I can't do that plus quarter finals and everything else. So you come across from three different angles and you don't get to to an agreement.
And the last topic, the Heat 1 winner of the barbell spin. Patreon, John, I think analysis runs in your family. John, did you win? Oh my God. Oh man, my mom won. Yeah, oh. Man. Yeah, this is young. I didn't even know. That. Man, I still. Think she? I figured she never. Talk about that like crazy. So yeah, I don't know if she picked. Let's see she. Oh, is this for the top ten? This isn't the. This is just top ten. This is top ten. She She's so.
Good though. Jeff Adler in first, Velner in second, Ricky in 3rd. Her biggest miss on the men's side was Chandler Smith in 5th I. Don't even know if she knew she won. And then on the women's side, she called Laura Horvath as the winner. She had Emma in second, Tia in 3rd. Her biggest miss on the women's side was she get called Paige Powers and 8th. Paige powers and 13th, 13th. 13th so she got all nines, 10s and a couple eights. Good job, nice. Plus Paige. Jackie, what happened?
You know, Jackie's listening. She. I know, You know, yeah. So. So Shelly wins a barbell spin flag. And a bag of of third Z so. Those flags are rare, right? There's only like. There's only a There's only a handful, so yeah. I don't even have one. Hit that on the resale market. Jelly. So maybe it's for maybe, maybe it'll be under the Christmas tree for you, John, but yeah, that's.
The way, if John's mom gives John that flag for Christmas, does that mean I give John that flag because he one's mine? So you're welcome, John. Thank you, Tyler. Hey, I do I do have to brag though about heat one that. Means a lot that. Means a lot. He he one handled handled Rogue much better than the games it was, yeah. No mess, no no bogs or nothing like that. No, I think it slowed down a little bit when they changed an event.
I can't remember which one it was, but there were no crashes that I was aware of. And you know, I I definitely like the the ability for people to create their own groups. I don't know if you know how many groups were actually creating. There were a lot it looked like. I need to ask Adam, but I think there were a few 100 and and that's like that's exactly what we wanted. So thank you everybody who participated. Yeah, no, that was that. That was pretty cool.
All right, good show. Again, For those who did not win a free bag of Third Z, head over to 3rd z.com. If you use code BBS, you can save 20% and get your best night's sleep ever. So thank you, everyone. John, Tyler, any closing remarks before we we shut this thing down? No, I'm sorry. I missed out on all the shows last week. It was. It was kind of expected. We knew it. We knew it, even if you didn't know it there. Will be more shows.
That's right. I thought you you said it runs in my family and I thought you were for sure going to show me that my dad had one and I was going to have to hear crap about that forever. Because. He's he's, he's pretty. He's pretty smart with those type of things too. And then you showed my mom and I could. I honestly could not believe it. You're you're not getting one, John. It's going to be garage. It's OK. All right. That's. And if you're still watching, make sure you subscribe.
Hit the like button. I see you all, 50% of you guys don't don't subscribe. So I'm. I'm watching you. It's. Rude. It's rude. Shout out to Melanie. I saw her at Rogue, she's a part of the JY Barbell Club. She came and seen me and we had a a little barbell lesson. It was really fun so shout out to her. I saw her in the comments, so I'm just shouting her out. Awesome. All right, 1999. Thanks Jack. See ya.