Creativity Sparks: Breaking Up with Tech + Free Solo

She's so awkward. It's so good. She's really, really good in that movie. Good job. I don't know your name. Um , so I'm watching this sweet eighth grader just totally glued to her phone, just swiping and liking and swiping and being irritable when her dad, dad tries to engage with her. And I was like, you know, it's been a long time since I was in eighth grade and sometimes now I still feel like that.

Like I want to go to sleep but I can't stop swiping and clicking and I'm like fighting sleep just to like have more of what?

It's that digital validation like getting a 'like', but we enter into what's called the state of insufficiency--

I'd be sitting as close as I am to you now and we're a million miles away from each other. Virtual distance. Yeah, because I'm, I'm trying to catch up on my Instagram feed and you're trying to finish, I don't know, a tweet that you're tweeting.

But because we're older, we can reflect on that and come to realize that virtual distance got in the way what we really wanted and what we really needed. So we can reflect on that and make a different choice. A choice that feels better.

So just trying to be better at being like, pardon me one second as I was in, it's kind of like if you were in a room full of real actual people and somebody tapped you on the shoulder that you would say, can you pardon me just a second? Or you turn to the tapper and you'd be like, excuse me, I'll be with you in just a moment. Like, or choose not to, you know? Anyway...

Just, because that thing decides to make a noise does not mean that we have to stop our conversation and go tend to whoever that is on the other end of the line. Yeah. It really, really bothered him. Wow. I'm pretty glad he's not around to see where it's evolved to.

And many children in technologically advanced societies have grown up with smartphones and tablets and other forms of digital, digital technology within arms reach. And if they grow up with virtual distance as the norm, they might not know that interactions can be different.

And he says, "we might some day evolve the correct biological hardware to live in harmony with portable super computers that satisfy our every need and connect us to infinite amounts of stimulation. But for most of us, that hasn't happened yet". Um, so he's been a heavy phone user his whole adult life, but he said last year he really started to notice it becoming a problem. He was unable to read long books, watch full length movies, have long, uninterrupted conversations.

Social media was making him angry and anxious. Um, and digital spaces that he used to find soothing, like group texts or podcasts weren't helping.

What's the, what is it, what am I dressing for in weather-wise, but so much of what I pick it up for when I'm just trying to not have to sit with myself is color shopping, pick beautiful pictures like I'm looking for, I just want to fill my eyes with colorful, distracting things. I think that's why people love candy crush. I've never been a candy crush person, but I think people like looking at like pretty gems and you know , um, so she did my phone and then I couldn't take it.

I couldn't take it. I had it for like 24 hours and I was like, I couldn't take it and I changed it back. Yeah.

She was just exhausted and she thinks maybe because of her exhaustion, she had a little out of body experience and she sort of saw the scene as it looked from the outside.

If I could make, if I could put my cell phone in front of them and they would stop quiet them down, I would put my cell phone in front of them. So fucking fast.

It isn't great because it's the last thing and the first thing and that's right . Needs it know ,

Itch studies have shown that excessive phubbing decreases relationships , satisfaction and contributes to feelings of depression and alienation.

Um, yeah, he , he said, I cannot stress enough that under the right conditions, spending an entire weekend without your phone and your immediate definity is incredible. You have to try it. And I was like, that's where like the actual doing of it might be super duper interesting. It's , um, I have to say that every year west and I go on a vacation with his family. Yeah. It's um , super low key cabins . Lakeside. How's the cell phone reception?

It's nonexistent and we're on boats the whole time pretty much. We get up, we get on a boat and so we get home, we have dinner, we'd go to bed, we get up, get on a boat. So that's how the whole week goes. There's really not a lot of boat just we have usually his amazing cousins , uh, rent a houseboat. They have a speedboat and they have ski dues. You're doing, you're doing water fun all that time.

Yeah. And sometimes we even have a pontoon boat as well, so it's like different people can drive different things and we , you can gather in different configurations and be like, I'm going to be on the houseboat today. I'm going to hang out and meet on the houseboat. Or I'm like, I'm going to ski. I love that song. T bane t penguin , the mass singer. Congratulations paying me. And that's, I didn't know that case quality all the way.

But point is that vacation is so fun and I usually end up, you know, finding a way to get to my computer maybe twice in that week and we , and say, you've done a version of this piece of this experiment. Yeah. How does it feel? It's pretty amazing. I'm doing this. I've , I've , I , I don't remember doing, oh, we take a crew sometimes and there's, that's, I guess that's then you're off the grid equivalent, but isn't it sad that we have favor ? Vacation ? Yeah .

He's cruising because he can completely detach. I didn't know that. We're gonna have to circle back on that. Yeah, fine. Yeah. Um, but I, I think like, oh, well how sad is it? See where we're talking about situations where we have to put ourselves in the circumstances. Like literally not having access. Yeah. What Kevin did was I could have access right now and I'm choosing not, yeah. I think that's much harder. I do too.

And I think it's, I think it's interesting and it's not just like we do that once a year for two weeks, two days or a week. Like, it's, it's a , this is a lifestyle shift he's describing. Yeah . Over the course of 30 days, his average phone time dropped from around five hours a day to just over an hour. Well, I'm proud of him. Um, I don't know you Kevin, but I'm proud of is the time, the amount of times he picked up his phone went from 100 to 20. Wow. Yes . Amazing.

Um, Catherine said your life is what you pay attention to. If you want to spend it on video games or Twitter, that's your business. But it should be a conscious choice. Yes. That's what I came when I did at the end of , um, 2018 I did that like 30 day plus creativity challenge that just doing that creativity challenge, it sort of reprioritized yet my life in a very, and this is what I mean by you can't know it until you do it.

And where I came out was I want to create more and consume less and that's this. I was like, you can do beyond your phone, consume, consume, consume what you want, but do it consciously. Instead of just being like, I, we just had dinner, which means now we watch four hours of TV and I've spent many, many, many years of my life being that person who just by habitually consumes. So it's just about being conscious instead of just letting it happen.

I think there's also something too , you know like what you said you are, how to Catherine put it , um, you are what you focus on. Yeah , yeah, yeah. There's a, there are many, many belief systems to that. So if you think about like if I am, when I focus on it like, so I am about like 30 seconds of a hundred topics instead of any kind of specialist or expert on one topic because all I'm doing it , my brain is bouncing around from thing to thing on this little screen give you that.

I saw again, Ironic, I saw that thing on Twitter or Instagram that I then showed you where it was like, like you and Jay, I showed you that right when you're up at my house. I was like that. It was a list of like, I don't know why I don't feel so good. I just like saw a picture of someone's dog, saw a picture of [inaudible] read about how journalists was beheaded, that it had no lifted a picture of Chihuahua. Like, like how it's just like being whipsawed by imagery. Yeah .

Yeah. I think ingesting imagery like this podcast is a way to restock your fish pond, that that ingestion of image tree may give you that feeling, and I already forgot it . Intentional as opposed to, but it can, it can be that state of insufficiency. It can just be like gimme gimme, gimme gimme gimme like [inaudible] almost. It's like where they say about eating. Like when you eat junk food , you , you're , you're continually hungry because you're actually not receiving any nutrients.

Oh, so your body is still like, and I need more because I'm waiting on the nutrient . Got a point. Am I going to get some nutrients ? But it takes time to recalibrate that. Yeah. Yeah. But the same thing of interesting just feeding yourself. You're like, I have fed myself four hours worth of news. Yeah. Why am I still hungry for interesting, interesting.

Kevin concluded by saying, I haven't taken an MRI or undergone a psychiatric evaluation, but I'd bet that something fundamental has shifted inside my brain in the past month. I'm interesting. I still love that world technology and probably always will, but now the physical world excites me to the one that has room for boredom, idle hands and space for thinking. I look people in the eye and listen when they talk and when I get sucked into my phone, I notice and self correct. Aye . Aye .

I don't think I have had the , uh, I don't think I was as extreme as he was by any stretch of the imagination. But I do have a taste of this in my own life and I don't know, I'm just thinking it's hard. It's hard to sit with yourself, but I think this really does go to creativity like that, that being [inaudible] , being in the physical world, having boredom, having space for thinking, having just fucking time. Like he bought back all that time so he could take the pottery class.

Yeah. I feel like I burn so much God damn time fucking around on my phone and it's mine and it's really, it's not like what I think of is like a good use of screen time. It's bullshit to just crap. It's numbing. It's like a pacifier. So I'm thinking, I know that this isn't a life hack show. This is about , uh, you know, creativity, inspiration and restocking your fish poncho. But this, this speaks to me in terms of how I, I some changes I could make, I aspire to, I don't know,

She likes making film. There you go. Um, and I'm like, you could get started reading. Um , you could read a screenplay. Oh, oh, I used to read, I don't read so much anymore. Ah , okay. She's 15, so we just went thing by thing by thing. And I'm like, oh, okay. All right . Yeah, there's so many more tempting things to distract you than actually doing it . It's hard. It's hard to measure up to those yummy dummy.

No two things that would like, let me check out as opposed to things that require me to check in. Yeah. So that's my spark and it all goes back to once you see the zombies. Yeah , carry it . I'm going to look for zombies from this point forward. They're everywhere within you. You have your actual spark file in front of you. I have my actual spark vault . It sounds like this Susan. It's a book of sparks. It's my spark file. You keep your sparks in a book.

Um, I do, but I think I'm going to upgrade to an iPad. Um, Susan uses an I pad . Um , very creatively. I've seen, I've been a part of and participated in workshops. I use the iPad for everything. Speaking engagements.

This iPad is, is like I used to print my like whatever I was speaking or teaching and I would like print it out, but sometimes I would be working on it up to now like changes and changes and I would be in a hotel or something and be trying to find , you know, it was just a mess, but I figured out a way to use it that really works for me. I really only get, I'm impressed by it. I know I would need to make a mental shift to the use of technology.

You might be surprised how easily I know , uh, but it's , uh , it's really about learning how to use them in a way that is functional and contributes to your creativity rather than distracts from creativity. Good points. They can be our best friend that's rhinology as long as we master them and they don't master us and the brake . I was also thinking about , um, how just as a writer, I know there are plenty of other people have studied this. Like how many stories and plots from the past.

Like you simply couldn't write these movies now because if anyone had a cell phone in your pocket, done stories over that's right . Needed to call mom, she'd come pick you up or good. Um, yeah, but now it can be used as a plot point in so many interesting inventive ways. That's right. Yeah. And yet we also, I don't think any of us are interested in going to see or you know, a watch stories that all hinge on some people just calling each other or Markopolos and each other.

Um, you know, it's like, Huh , end of story. But I feel like sometimes, have you seen the movie? Is that God, I'm gonna get the name of it wrong. It's where the guy finds out his daughter wasn't who he thought he was by like tracking through her social media. Did you see that movie? That's good . The , it was interesting. I really wasn't . I'm like, listen, I have to warn you. This is what I'm like, every time someone's like, did you see that? And I'm like, I did. I don't .

What do I recall of it? Sure, sure, sure, sure. Do you recommend it? Would I like it? Is it too scary for me? It wasn't scary. It actually wasn't. Um, I'm, that's what I'm trying to remember is that show . I love that actor. He was great. I think he is [inaudible] I actually think it was interesting. I remember liking it but I can't remember the details of it. I'm the perfect person to have come to your show five times because I literally won't remember people be like, how did that end?

I don't know. It's going to be a surprise ending for me too. I'm also the perfect secret keeper because when you tell me stuff sometimes people are like, I'm going to tell you this, but I didn't just happen to be the last week and they were like, please don't repeat it. And I was like, your secret is safe with me because I don't remember shit nps . This just happened to me and I have no recollection of who was telling them what it was.

Susan, I have to tell you without any names, I have to tell you a quick story. So years ago in a former life, I'm nervous. A friend of mine told me a secret that her boyfriend had told her that he, and it was something he was mortified by and I was a friend to her and they worked through it. And , um, over time I saw that guy a few times and he, his energy towards me had changed greatly and to the point where I was like, it seemed like they mad at me.

Like I don't see him that I don't know why he'd be mad at me cause I don't have anything. We don't really relate to each other or see each other or anything. Um, and then this is years, this is years had gone by and my friend said , I said like, it's , this is kind of weird, but like is he mad at me for something? And she's like, he is, oh , he's mad at you because I told you that secret will you like, and I was like, what? See , I like literally, I don't know what secret you're talking about.

And she's like, you don't, and I'm like, I, I'm s now I'm a terrible friend. But I don't remember. I'm the hopeful person. I tell me anything. It won't stay. So remember what the secret is now? Well, they had, this is the irony, they had to tell me. They had to retell . Tell me what the secret was so that they could tell me why they were mad at not . She was, she wasn't,

And so I was like, but I'm guess I'm curious like why aren't you mad at her for telling me? Because it's less expensive to be mad at you. I guess so I guess. I think he overcame it eventually. I hope so. Cause I had no, no bad feelings and I've never told a single soul. So I'm competing on the , this isn't a secret thing, but being on the other side, just as sort of like, I've, I've talked about the separate and about it now.

I , um, when I was in high school , um , you've heard the story before. When I was in high school, I had a huge crush on a local theater director in where I grew up in Dayton, Ohio. And I , um , just did anything to be around him near him. And one day at a rehearsal he was like, I need a haircut. And I was like, oh, hi hair. I said, I cut hair. I totally cut hair. I've never cut hair. Oh my God. House. And I put scissors to his hair and he had thick, thick hair and I butchered it.

Did he speak to you? He had to go have it corrected at a hairdresser side. Oh my God. When I was in high school and I literally avoided him, I went away to college. I went to graduate school. I would come back and visit. I would see him like across the theater lobby and I would run low because I was so mortified. And I finally, I was like, I'm exorcising this demon. And I wrote a story that included that in it for a performance where I knew he would be present.

And I told the story and he came up to me after and he's like, I have no recollection of that. I had been mortified and tortured by it for years and he had hadn't [inaudible] you know what, for everybody who has no recollection of the secret or the story or the bad haircut, there are people that will hold a fucking grudge. True. That's true. There are those, but we aren't, those people apparently not. Does anything tell us we won't. [inaudible] secret keepers.

So are you ready for my sparring girl? I was born ready for this bart . All right , that's fine. I'll have my spark is called, Oh God. Bailing from heart or what would you risk

We'll look up what that is the equivalent of, but it's a big amount tall. It's a, it's an enormous mountain. It's like a straight up, where is it? You're somebody . Is that right? Don't know. Fact checking. Um, so we're not journalists. We're not, we're not journaling fact checkers. We're not. So Hey, that'll be fun. So that's something fun for you all to do . El Capitan [inaudible] do our research and fact checking.

So, so essentially I'm going to talk about a few things that happened in this movie, so spoiler alert. Okay. Um, so if you haven't seen the movie and you're freaked out because you haven't seen the movie, pause this. Go Watch it. Where can people see it? It's all like Netflix. It's on Amazon prime right now. There you go. Watching our brand sit there.

Um, but I'm not going to go blow by blow of the film and, and tell you, I'm just going to talk about the points that I feel kind of related to our creativity in a way. So, and there were more than I realized. So when I started watching it , I had nothing. I wasn't looking for a spark or anything. I just like , I want to watch them because I was trying to watch some good TV and this kind of movie I wanted to see in the movie theater.

But I'm not exaggerating when I tell you like even right now talking about being up high, my palms get so sweaty, my pumps are like feel my pumps, they're soaking wet my car . So thought of just stuff . The thought I have a height thing too, but not that bad. [inaudible] it's not for me, it's just, it's not for me, but so I am amazed. So free solo climbing is exactly how it sounds. No rowers , no tire . Like where you go tap, tap, tap and you like nothing . No, you are not tapping into it.

You're finding tiny crevices. So you know that when you see those guys train like the upper third of their fingertips for strength , um , oh my , they're clinging to these little tiny ridges. And as he explains it, sometimes it's , it's not even about like hanging from it a tiny ridge. It's like the pressure that you, you know, you're yourself up there by the pressure of your right foot and your left hand squeezed into a crack. You know, I mean it's , it's, there is nothing. That's it .

It's like if you and I tried to climb this wall, even if we did have small ridges on this wall, we're not, we're not [inaudible]

and you're there just way up there and nothing she likes you . At one point I was watching, I was just like, you know, birds, they're up high. [inaudible] you could like come upon a birds nest or you put your finger into a tiny previs and like the spider bite ,

So he had , um, he being Alex Honnold, Alex Honnold , um, had, he's climbed free solo of uh, apparently a million other places. And if you're a climber, first let me apologize for not knowing enough about your sport. Um, but, but I, professional climbers, but respect and props to you. Um, Alex Honnold is , so he's pretty infamous in, in his area anyway, but he had long dreamt of El Capitan and people would be like, oh my God, do you want to do that? No one's ever done it before.

And , and so he says in the movie, of course he's inside. He's like, yes, but I looked at that mountain and I kept thinking, that's fucking scary. No Shit. Um, so he would like play it cool. Like, I don't know, maybe someday we'll see, you know, see what happens . Um, but really inside his, like, I ha I have a burning, burning desire, like I have to do this. Ah ,

Of course, they're dangling from the, from the top. They climb with the rope and sure, of course, yeah. Yeah, of course. Drones, I'm guessing. And they have drones and Hailey liked or they, they on the one hand the , and they do interviews with the, the guys who are shooting that , you know, he's true . They're shooting through the training process.

They're shooting, you know, not just like this one day of like today's the day, they're shooting for a long time and everyone's getting used to things and he has to map the course of up this 3,500 foot. How do you map you? You practice, you practice is , and I'm going to get, I'm going to tell you more about that in a minute. It's like a rehearsal. Um, but is there a rehearsal El Capitan that you're like, oh, but it's like a rehearsal. But as they say in the movie, it's like a rehearsal.

But if you make a mistake, you die. So just imagine that. Like you're like, okay , cross down. Right. Cross left. Oops, I meant cross, right? Nope, that's it. I don't want you to tell me if I'm jumping ahead, but you know, how do you know the, the surface, the topography of what they study it and they practice it. So he u he did practice with ropes. You know, he had to climb it a thousand times. I mean, not a thousand, but you climb it with ropes , then you go free Solo.

But then you start practicing to where you don't touch that rope at all. You know you're climbing. But like at every juncture you're wondering how would I do this if I didn't, if I broke on free Solo. Yeah. So we'll get more back to that in a minute. But the film crew, they did an interview with them and they were like all of course it's the most gorgeous scenery. It's going to be a beautiful shoot.

Um , but they have this extra awareness, you know, their , they know they're going to get, they're going to capture their friend doing great work. But of course they might also capture him falling to his death. And on top of that, just to layer another bit of stress on, there's a chance always in the back of their minds if they there mirror the presence of them there can disrupt [inaudible] time could disrupt his time. That would be the reason why he falls to his death. Yeah, that makes sense.

So whether it's an overt mistake that they make or it's simply his awareness of a camera, you know, causes him to make a different choice. Like it would require the utmost focus and almost like trends send it. That's exactly right. Yeah, totally flow state. Totally like autopilot in that way. That's like, I'm not listening to all of those voices that say you might die and God, and I'm going to tell me how the sense I might , I'm so nervous . Cliffhanger on a cliffhanger or oh my God.

So they talk a lot about how his whole like free solo career, he wouldn't tell like his mom, he wouldn't tell anyone when he was doing it, they knew that he did it as a hobby, but just because it's very difficult to sit and wait for six hours to hear back. It's a little bit like your kid's going off to war. That's right to an active war zone as are they going to make it back?

Yeah. So he would, so he, you know, everyone knew that that's what he did in his free time, but he wouldn't specifically say, hey mom, today I'm going to do this. So I thought it was interesting that the camera crew artists in their own right are, have an awareness of their role in this, how important it is to capture this and to, you know, not only to credit the work that he's doing, but make it beautiful, make it artistic in its own right and tell the story in an appropriate way.

But in doing so, could they cause someone that they care about to lose his life? And it just got me thinking about like, Shit, how have I ever risked anything that great to be creative? Um, and I think about like, I'm not trying to diminish the emotional risks that we take. Whenever we share, I immediately think of emotional risks and I thought like, so, okay.

So yes, I'm taking emotional risks, but I've never risked my literal life for my passion or a hobby or for my job or because I like absolutely must do this. I would, I could possibly die in the process, but that's okay. Do you know what I mean? So I just think it's, I just, it got me thinking about that. And, and also maybe I can ease up on the like scary emotional risks, like, like big fucking deal a little bit like it , where am I at ? What happens if I show my work? Yeah .

And someone doesn't like it. Yes. I'm not going to die. You're not gonna fall off El Cap , not gonna fall off of El Capitan. Yeah. Though I think sometimes it feels like your, when , when I teach and talk about risk, it does feel like, you know, your heart races, you get some adrenaline pumped into your system. Sometimes there's some cortisol too , so it feels like a little bit of poison. It can really feel like you're a life or death situation. Yes. You know ?

And, and for him, he described it as , um, you know, he's very vocal about , um, feeling in general in life that he is like not good enough. Oh. And I thought, hello friend. Um , and , um, and he said for him, these climbs are like a moment of perfection because if it's not perfect, he didn't ends differently. He dead. That's right. Wow. So you know when the stakes are life or death and obviously it has to be perfect, but then again, back to our creativity. We're not dealing with those stakes .

This is not life or death and it doesn't have to be perfect. And in fact, getting ourselves into the idea that it's either perfect or it's not, can be detrimental to us actually achieving our goals.

I just want to say though, while you're talking, I'm reflecting on this is a privileged conversation because I do think there are people like artists and theater makers in other places in the world and other cultures where making their art, which say may have a, a challenging political point of view of against the current rescue regime or something like that. That can be life or death. That's right. Yeah. 100% your privileged was a privileged conversation.

I'm not saying that artists in general haven't put themselves in life or death situations. I'm just saying I have not . Gotcha. And, and would I, you know, I'm just questioning like how important is it to me? Not that I , I think you have to do that, but I think all I'm doing is comparing it to what might feel too risky to me. Yeah. I e making that phone call, putting myself out there, asking for help. Yes. Some getting critiqued, you know, all of those things.

They're not actually life and death . So like c a s speaking a truth. I'm revealing a truth. Let's write something that is , um, that you have been silent about before. That's right. That can feel life for death, but all of it feels very scary. Um, so I'm not diminishing and like not judging anyone's , um, level of risk. I'm just acknowledging my own. I think I could amp it up a little bit. Gotcha. You know what I mean? I feel you.

So , um, intro , other interesting things that I thought related to create creativity. Um, Alex said, ah , you know, people talk about suppressing your fear. Like I'm literally pushing it down, setting it aside, moo , ignoring it, doing something with , um, getting rid of the fear and he's like, I don't look at it that way. I look at it as trying to expand my comfort zone by practicing the moves over and over and over again. So I work through the fear, so it's just not scary anymore. Wow.

Um, interesting sidebar. He did have an MRI done for the movie , um, because, you know, he said there have been people who were like, you're crazy or you're not all there, there's something missing, etc . And so he did an MRI and they put kind of scary pictures in front of him, you know, during the MRI and they saw no activity in his amygdala and as a Migdal lapses , fight or flight. That's right.

So the part of the brain that prepares for like emergency situations , um, or detecting fear, et cetera. And they didn't like try to come to a conclusion like , um, like you don't have in a Mig , like it's not a working, yeah , it could be that again, he has expanded his comfort zone so that those images don't cause the fight or flight or the fear in him. I wonder what images they put in front of him. He just saw a few like , um, like an airplane crash or a this or that.

Like they , but like how graphic I can , I couldn't say. I just wonder like, what? Um, I mean, there are things that , uh , images that are genuinely would be scary to me and I wonder if they selected things that were genuinely, yeah, I wonder that too, because like when they discussed this part of El Capitan, like, he's like, there's a moment where it's like you're two thirds of the way through and there's a choice that has to be made.

And either way, it's kind of like neither choice is good, neither choice is good, but one of them requires your , you're from your fingertips basically and you've got your, your feet on tiny tiny ridges . Yeah. Literally releasing entirely if you can imagine and kind of jumping to catch a different tiny ledge f that f that, right . Like my palms are basically dripping over here at this point. Um, so I wonder is, so to your point, like if , did they show him a picture like that?

Is he going to be like fuck off? Like they're there? There are different phases in the, like when they track the, the route he's going to take, I think there were 26 or 28 up up the mountain, but there's one, it's basically called the boulder problem and that's the section. And everyone refers all these sections the same. Like they're like, well, he's at the such and such pass or this midway or the one that you fucked beds. Oh, boulder problem , boulder problem.

And so I wonder like, yeah, if they showed him a picture of the boulder problem, I wonder if that would have triggered his amygdala. Interesting. But , um, so he, he , uh, started , um, one day he started the climb and they thought this is going to be the day, or they, I guess the day before they were like, we're going to try it out tomorrow. This totally is spoiler. Um, and they determined that, so it was like, fall of 2016 I think.

And they were like, if we don't do this in the next, you know, week or so, the weather is going to turn and I have to wait until next year. So , um, so they were like, okay , we're going to do tomorrow. And interestingly, like they also have a little through line of his relationship in there, and I'll come back to that a little bit more.

But , um, he wasn't, again, like he , he has this serious girlfriend and she knows what he does and, and she's living in the van with him at the base of the dirt bag in it , I think that they call it. Yeah. They're bagging it and, and um, he wasn't going to tell her that next, the next day was the day she sort of liked, kind of figured out. But she's there and then she's like, so and then she kinda houses them a little there sweetie.

Well she know there filming all through the training anyway, so they're all there every day. Do you know what I mean? So, but at some that way wouldn't you think? Like you'd be like, it's tomorrow. Well she says you can climb with tomorrow. And he's like , um , it's not a good liar. Yeah, he was about that good. And she's like, well , is tomorrow the day? Is that why you're not telling me? And so anyway, long story short, she kind of hassles him.

So interestingly enough, he, so the next day he has to start his climb . So here's another little metaphor, creative metaphor. He has to start his climb in the dark at 4:00 AM is does he do it in one day? Yeah . Is it, it's meant to be done in one day. So do you start it then so that you can like be at the boulder problem before the sun sets or something? Like that's exactly right.

You don't want, yeah , the sun can't set and um , or there's certain places where you don't want to be and have the sun be directly in your eyes, you know? Right. As you're reaching your assignment, that's stuff like people that are trying to summit Everest, there's this pass the Hillary step or something like that where if you don't get it by a certain time or weather conditions turn back and back and that's the end. We'll see you next year when you try to sum it again. It's one of those, Yep .

Yeah. Yep. That's another great movie I saw about that whole. Anyway. So , um, so he has to start his climb in the dark at 4:00 AM so that when he reaches the summit, he's not dealing with the sun in his eyes, et cetera. And I just thought about , um, a couple of things. How many sound like don't we have to start a lot of our projects in the dark, like I don't know how to form our , what am, I don't know what this says . I don't know what I'm doing but I'm going but I'm starting. I love it.

Kay . That's a, and then another thing is like the knowledge that as he climbs and at every juncture he's not to like when he gets to the hardest part, which is like the last third of this thing, he says most tease that his most fatigued, he is exhausted. Think of those little fingertips that have been climbing their little tip bomb when he reaches the boulder problem.

He's already been climbing and , and when I say climbing, I mean like there isn't a moment where he's like, cool, I can like I'm just going to have this thing here for a second. It's right. He's not , he's not. He's dangling off officious . I mean it's basically a four hour climb at Wa . He does it. He ends up doing it in four hours. This might be a body look like just a CGU . Is he like one of those cranium mud. It's like protein. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think he eats for enjoyment.

It's just like fuel. Yeah . Um, so on this particular morning though, so he starts at 4:00 AM he starts in the dark, he starts climbing up and remember his , like his girlfriend had hassled him kind of the night before. And uh, at least that's my perception of it. And then he goes up maybe an hour into it and he's like, I'm going to bail . I'm going to bail . He's in. Today's not the day. Today's not the day. It's not gonna happen. And he was like really embarrassed.

He's like, he didn't want to talk about it too much when the cameras were rolling. Um, but he stopped himself and, and, and everyone. So then they interviewed everyone, him, they were like, what? Like he's baling and on the, on the , um, radio, one of them was like, wait, say again? He's bailing . They're like, yes, he's failing . And the reason is he's bailing from heart .

And the idea of being like, I guess they don't explain it, but what I took out from context is like, describe my face right now. I [inaudible] but I wish , um , but bailing card is like, his heart wasn't in it that day. And He , when you, when the stakes are that high, he knew. He knew today's not my day. I mean , I'm not in this. My mind's not in this. My Heart's not in this. Um, and he gets to choose. He, you know, he gets to choose. And the thing is he beat himself up about it a little bit.

And then fellow climbers were like, dude, you may have to exact situation. That's why I'm listening to this. I'm like, what an amazing moment to exercise your intuitions , right? Failing from hiring. That's fear. I think that's intuition. I completely agree. And , and sometimes you and I talk about like, there are times when people have made a decision that maybe they made in their twenties of like what they want to do, what they want to be.

You know, other things in life, come around that make them happy and they're , or they're joyful and yet they might live with some guilt for giving up something. They bailed on something, but, but they bailed from heart . Oh and that's okay. Right? Yes. So it turns out it was obviously it was the right decision and he accepts it, but now he has to wait until the spring of the next year. Oh , interest of course. You know what I mean? Cause the weather was changing. That's right.

So , um, I thought that was really, really interesting. Um, but he , uh , the relationship part, it was another thing that I found to be fascinating. Um, again, it's not super explicit, but I'll just speak from what I took from it. Um, so he gains , uh , he, he's in a serious relationship during this time and a lot of people were like, Whoa, okay. Like he hasn't had a lot of serious relationships that last. I can imagine it would be a tough profession for that.

Um, but you see, and again, editing, so I'm sorry if I'm offending the young woman in the film, but you see multiple times where she's really , um, kind of coming at him for his, for what is this like crazy goal? Like why do you have to do that ? Yeah. And I felt myself so completely with him because um, it's not as though she was getting into a relationship with a, an accountant [inaudible] who decided that he wanted to, you know, sale the world alone. Yeah .

All of a sudden, but she got involved with the free solo climber who wants to free solo climb. Yeah. Um, so I found myself being glancing up every time she would be like, you know, you could die. And I'm like, that's not the visual. And He, you see him throughout the whole thing ever . The number of times that other people tell him he could die and you can just see he has to put it out. It's like it's in his mind and it's outside tucked away somewhere.

Like if he actually focused on that all the time, he would do nothing. He would not go forth with any of his particular goals. And I think that, you know, similarly if we, if we hear that voice in our heads constantly where people are like, but you, but you could fail but you could embarrass yourself. But maybe no one will like it. I mean it's a wonder you , if you let those voices in, how do you achieve anything?

And if you have a partner or a best friend who's like, come on, why do you really, like you don't like why is writing that so important or why is doing that so important? Like a , um, it's interesting, we, I noticed this in [inaudible] in my relationship, I'm lucky enough to be with somebody who I get like wild. Oh , they're not crazy.

It's not like, not like I want to climb El Capitan, but I'll get like mildly obsessed and I'm, I'm not using that hyperbolically like I'll be mildly obsessed, which was me of , it's a mild obsession of doing something. For instance, my latest one, which you've heard me refer to like I am sort of obsessed with vintage terrariums. There's ones that look like a plaster , like sitting on a mid century on in tulip white. Yes . Stick base. Yes. They're not for everybody, but they're for me.

And a really love like restoring them, finding them and restoring them, and then like planting little terrarium scapes in them. And instead, I can imagine being with somebody who was like, kind of rolled their eyes at it or scoffed at it. I can really easily imagine like, why would you spend your time and money? Um, and I'm not with somebody like that. I'm whistling. I was like, I , he's like Nathan says stuff like, I love that you love that. Ah , that you love that.

Now granted it's not, I'm not imperiling myself by restoring a terrarium. Right. But , um, I, when he says that stuff, it almost takes me by surprise and really appreciate him taking it in a positive direction instead of

But she'll have a conversation with him, you know, like the day before he's climbing saying , um, would I ever be in a, you know, a consideration in your mind if like whether or not you, Oh God, I, it pains me to watch those because I'm sure in my twenties and you know, I probably beyond, I'm sure that I had those insecure moments and those things, but I just now the person that I am and want to be, and the person that I want to be with, thankfully west is this, I just want to be like, if that

is your vision, your goal, your passion, I want to support, I don't want to try to change you and keep you from that.

And she was like, oh , most all the injuries are from modals motorcycle accidents. And I just presented it to him and said, I don't love it. I'm scared and I'm probably be scared every time you're out playing by him .

And at the same time, there was a terrible, terrible motorcycle wreck in our neighborhood where the three, the helmet, the stream , there were three big pieces of the bike, the bike splitting , the three big pieces, and they were practically on the three different corners of the intersection. So you only can imagine what happened to the body that was on the bike. And , um , I just expressed it to Nathan and he, I didn't hear any more about the motorcycle in like two weeks later.

I was like, so what city with the bike? And he was like, I heard your concerns. And I thought if there was something that you really wanted to do or liked to do, like that was dangerous.

I know, get on the back of his waters, fall in love with him and then say no, stop being the person I know. I know, I know. She met him at a book signing for his book about Free Solo climbing where he w you know, I'm like, you got it. Exactly what you were getting. But I'm not, I'm not, not having empathy for her. I just think you realize this conversation you're having right now with him could cause him to doubt himself in , in a moment on the, on the mountain tomorrow. Do you know what I mean?

Or prevent him from getting a really, really good night's sleep. That's right. Yeah . You need to, you know, just, you need to decide are you going to be supportive or can you not live with who this person is and the choices they're making. But I'm totally with you and I would want that for a west and , and I'm sure , um, you know , uh, I'm just taking up a hobby now as opposed to something that they've, they've been doing and have always done prior to your, yeah.

Um, but I wanted to go back just quickly to the , um, to remember when I was talking about him saying like you , his ideas to expand his comfort zone by practicing the moves over and over again. Love it. And they talk about this with , um, with Olympic level athletes as well. Like there's practicing it and having your body really do it and practicing in your mind. Yes. Seeing every detail from the starting box to the sound of the gun to the, you know.

Um, so if I, if you don't mind, I'd like to just, I'm going to give you a little taste of, of what he, he has in his journal and this is just edited. Like he um, um, they, they edited it so that obviously they didn't share it all, but just an idea of him. So this is what he's visualizing ps . And they say that don't they doesn't research show I get this, this, this, this, this should be my, this is my segment where I misremember articles .

Doesn't , doesn't research say that, that I'm imagining like going through the scenario of hitting the f the throw, hitting the free throw, hitting the free throw. The mind doesn't know what's real and what's not. Right. So that mental practice is as important as the physical practice. That's right. Okay. So hit me with these. So here's him funneling pitch one stay left where the top feels more secure. Splitter pitched to trust the right foot.

Rock on, trust the feet, rock hand, right hand to last under claim eight easy ramp . Go fast. Nine, stay outside of the down. Climb. Careful of the blocks. Pitch 26 lie back and up the corner. Keep left-hand pinch thing, right foot back. Step on Lower Ledge. Left foot faced against the wall. Stand up left hand to the huge ear jug thing. Switch the feet. Match the big Jug. Left foot jams into the crack, right hand down, pulling on top part of the jug. Left-Hand goes into the flared slot.

Either fist jammer , hand jam into the slot, sag down into it, right hand crosses to an under cling side Pole, right foot sinks low to a flat edge. Left foot through an edge, right foot back steps really high so you can sag your weight around the corner. Left foot out to the big horn, right hand through the little finger pocket. You go left foot out in edge around the corner. You can actually push all the way into the corner left-hand to the other. Underclothing switch your feet on the rail.

Then just reach to the jugs and it's done. Okay. I feel like we have the cheat sheet. So now you and me [inaudible] we're ready, suckers. So it reminds me of ready player one. It reminds me of a video game. It's like, yes, to do this you have to watch out for this thing. It's going to throw a fireball. You have to guess yes and grab the rings. Now doc , no . Yes. But imagine like , um, that's his version of practice. That's his mental press. Yes. Picturing it.

And like I said, like if you're like , let's say you're rehearsing a show, imagine practicing like that. I mean obviously you don't want to because you don't want to be robotic, but um, if every movers life or glossy is like that, that it is good to practice like that. The other thing that I wonder is what happens if due to weather due to like what if the course changes? You know, you said he would have to wait until the spring. Yeah. What if like a little snow took off?

Uh , the one of the little jug handle things and you know what I mean? Absolutely. Those little cracks. I thought of that too because, because what if a bird built a nerve ? What if it wasn't as bad or built a nest shit. Cider like bites your finger when you stick it in a crack. Yeah. What are you going to do? You're not getting it . How are you getting down from there without your hand? Adrenaline would stave off the res .

Well depends this binary, but I guess like if a bird flew out of a crack right into your face, you just ah , you know, like you just have a reaction. That's a bird from a man in my mouth. I wasn't expecting to die on El Capitan. No , but I just thought that is so cool. It's pretty, it's pretty amazing. And , and in terms of maybe not visualizing your every move on stage, but fish visualizing and practicing those moments in our careers and in our creativity and how we want them to play out.

Yeah. There's no harm in it. So say that the , again , it's like expanding. You're expanding your comfort zone, banding practice, Comfort Zone. Those things aren't so scary to you. Love. I'm writing that down. Expanding your comfort zone. That to me is such a huge spark. So I'm going to say Alex handled first person ever to free Solo El Capitan on June 3rd, 2017 in three hours and 56 minutes and what a huge gift to all of us creatives.

I felt like that movie had so many takeaways that related to our experiences as as creative takers creatives. Free Solo is the name of the solo fuck. Yes, and Fargo . Bailing by heart, bailing by heart or intuition versus fear. That's intuition baby. Expanding your comfort zone. I'm all about it. Oh , fun one. Yeah. Yeah, it was super good. Thank you for that. Like that nourishes me. [inaudible] another episode of this bar file . We hope we put another bunch of [inaudible] sparks in your files.

That's right into to my voice. When I say, if there is a spark that you'd like us to explore or spark that you'd like to share, why don't you email [email protected] and be sure to subscribe to our podcast wherever you get your podcasts. As the kids say, subscribe, rate and review. That's right. Listen Up. If anything here like tickles your fancy or gets your creative juices flowing, it's your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame and be sure to tell us.

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