What's going on guys and welcome back. Ravonna Renslayer comes out tonight and every single cost reduction card has been fired. Will she be following suit and will she be worth it? We're going to be answering that today. Also, we'll be ranking every single season pass card to come to the game from Miles Morales to Zabu to Loki, who's been tremendous. We're going to stack them up and see how they all compare. And then lastly, guys, tech cards and their importance.
Most best decks have one flex spot and that tech card matters a lot. So in September, which ones should you be rocking for today's meta? We're gonna be talking about that all today and more on this episode of the Snapchat. And as always, I'm joined by Mr. Alex Coccia. Hello man, happy mid September, post Alioth week. We're working our way through fall, but how's fall going for you so far? Back to teaching.
It's been a wild week, Cozy. A wild week. I'm glad you tried to distract me with the autumn weather and the autumn beauty. Because it's been ugly this week to some degree for some people because Elioth has been munching people's cards. And it's crazy because last week we were like, Yo, Elioth, like, that card's going to slap. Like, it has potential. We were, we were kind of like, humming and hawing about it. Like, is it really going to slap the way we think it's going to? And, Cozy, it slaps.
It's funny because it's so split right now. My brother texts me, he's like, I hate this card. I was like, Oh, I like it. Like, it's funny. There's differences. I think on how people view Alioth. And I know one of our subjects, we won't spoil it, but on your side, we'll be talking about like villains of snap. And I think that'll be a fun conversation to break down. Yeah man, it's been a good fall.
I'm caught up on Ahsoka, which I'm a Star Wars fanboy, so I was enjoying that, and have you seen, are you much of a Disney Plus guy? Have you watched any of those miniseries on Star Wars or Marvel?
I've been re watching Loki Season 1. And I did watch it prior, but now that we, like, the cards are out and I'm playing with the cards, like, I didn't realize Alioth was Alioth. Like, it sounds stupid, but like, I'm like, oh, that's the cloud from the cloud, right? Like, it's, it's kind of crazy. I didn't realize it. And then now everything's coming together so much more interesting because of Marvel Snap. And I gotta tell you, Loki season one is absolutely incredible. I love it.
Yeah, I thought it was the best, probably, miniseries that have come out for Disney shows, in my opinion. Like, it was something that I feel like, even if you weren't, like, a Marvel diehard, you would appreciate it just for, like, the really cool, kind of, I don't know, Truman show vibe?
Like, just weird, like, kind of out there, crazy multi concept stuff, and it took Loki it's crazy the arc of Loki, man, going from one of, like, I don't know, I would say he's, like, he was, like, a D list kind of Marvel... Loved person even in the mcu and now like after the show it's like you take that and you just like skyrocket them. So season two is coming out next month.
Obviously the cards really hyped it up kind of wish they did this season Next like to coincide with the kind of weekly show But yeah, man, if you guys haven't seen loki very solid show you can go check that out anyway, man, we've got ourselves obviously a pretty big week with ravona as i've you know alluded to in the intro We're gonna obviously break that down We're going to talk Alioth and villains. What else are we talking about on your side Alex?
Cozy. We're going to be talking about the new villains of Marvel snap. These are the cars that are just starting to piss people off. And we're going to be discussing them, their win rates and their meta shares. We're also going to be talking about whether or not season pass cards should actually be released a little strong. That's going to be an interesting discussion. I'm interested in your thoughts.
And finally, we'll be doing the most underrated cards at each cost in Marvel snap for this month.
Well, man, we had ourselves a good OTA. I thought, I thought this OTA was... Actually more deceivingly impactful than maybe when you first took a look at it there. If you guys haven't seen the OTA, or if, you know, you're, you're catching up here on the Snapchat, we got ourselves a nice little buff to Shadow King. We'll definitely break that one down to more extent. He went from a 3 3 to a 2 3. Lady Sif and Black Cat, we have a double whammy for the discard archetype, really helping that out.
Spider Ham getting himself his third adjustment, going back down to a one cost card. And then we have a nerf to the Collector. So Alex, right away man, what was your kind of like, Biggest winner, biggest loser from the OTA.
I mean, it's, it's hard to say. I feel like Collector is a huge loser in a weird way, because I still think it's really good in Loki, but to murder the card pretty much in every other archetype feels awful. Like, it just, it feels like it took a stray bullet. So I kind of feel for Collector players, because you even had like Collector based discard lists with Swarm out there. You had hand sized double dinosaur decks were running Collector. Now those are all just impossible to play.
Yeah, I feel like it was kind of a stray bullet was the right way to put it, also like a band aid. I would not be surprised if they like fixed the Loki thing in another way, and then, you know, Collector goes back. It was a small group of decks that were being played with Collector outside of Loki at the moment, but that doesn't disregard that, you know, it did hurt those decks. Where it didn't really hurt the Loki deck, right? Like, all that much.
Obviously, Shadow King was the biggest winner, in my opinion. Going down to two cost. Do you think he's gonna stay at two costs? Because right now, it's wild. I mean, it's truly what a solid card, man.
I actually really like him at two costs. I like this idea that you can, at two costs, tech in specific cards like Luke Cage, Shadow King, Goose. Like, there's specific cards that just tech nicely at two costs. Removing its Buffing Silver Surfer is obviously significant, but at the same time, it's now a two cost that can make more sense in more decks. I like it. I actually thought your Shadow Sarah was actually a really cool deck that utilized to good effectiveness considering what this meta is.
So I really like Shadow King. It's cr isn't it crazy, by the way, that wasn't it last week, we were talking about how Shadow King was one of my favorite cards of the season, and then it gets buffed, how often does one of your favorite cards get buffed?
I know it was, he was definitely the shock of like, I don't know. I just wasn't expecting him to be getting the buff. There's almost like no reason to not run Luke Cage now, as this kind of like, I have a flex spot, what do I do here? Especially if you have like a boosted power deck of any kind. Because if you look at the meta, just, you know, flatline, it's high EVO, and then a good chance Shadow King will be in there to counter the Lokis and the Collector.
So like Luke Cage protects you from so much. And you can now do like the late turn Luke Cage, to like surprise your opponent and like boost all your numbers back up. And then also having them yourself if you want to run Shadow King. I don't know, Luke Cage is also just becoming a winner, you know, from that Shadow King. But I was surprised man. What about like the Lady Sif Black Cat? I, honestly man, I think Black Cat...
It's going to continue to get better, but I thought it was a fun little change, man.
It's definitely a fun change. And like, this has been a few changes in a row. We've had a couple shots to discard over the last couple of weeks. Like we had the Blade buff now black cat, and obviously by proximity, a ghost rider gets some additional love here. And I think that it's key to understand that, like, you don't want to play back Black Cat on turn three. That was never the point of the card.
The point of the card was you discard it, and it's a card that you don't actually have to work towards discarding. So in, like, traditional Hela, even as a 3 7, there was argument to be had that, like, okay, you could even include Black Cat, because it's still just a 3 7, and you don't have to work to discard it. But once Modok came out, there was no point, because you just discard everything anyway with Modok, right?
I have a hot take. I think discard... Two things on it.
First of all is the most undiscovered archetype at the moment outside of the Modok kind of deck that people are Gravitating to the safety that can be played with it now and the reliability Is incredible like I was doing some reliable hella decks where like hell is not this gamba anymore, but more of this, okay Strategically getting rid of cards and making sure that you use all the targeted discards to your biggest advantage The stat lines across the board are crazy. Some APOC stuff going on.
Ghost Rider is now just, honestly, pure great stats. I think there's a, and I've been tested, I think there's a really good discard deck that will be in the meta at a top competition rate within the next few weeks, is my personal guess. Definitely by October with some new cards coming. But Black Cat definitely felt like a good card that did hit the OTA, and I like what they did there.
Ladies, see if anytime you get an extra bonus point to a card that's hard, you know, always being played it feels good. But I gotta be honest, man. I'll talk about it more probably later, but Spider Ham is just in... He's Batman. As a 1 1, the constant disruption that this guy does for nothing. Feels fantastic. You don't get a couple of things now with him, as you did a Kamar Taj Spider Ham, you can't have a chance to hit two six costs. And he's less good in that regard.
But dude, I'm loving him again.
That's funny that you say that, because I'm a little more lukewarm. Like, I see why he's better. Like, for instance, in like, Janejaw Baseless, I think he works really well. Like, we used to play like, one drops like like Nightcrawler and Iceman just to kind of get things cycling, right? And then like, so he works really well in those types of lists.
And I do like the idea that he's hitting the left most card, but like, I can't help, but feel like I just remember what the, that OG Spider Ham was and how overpowered it was. It was so disgusting. It had to get tuned back, but I have a question for you. And this is something that like, I don't know if there's the right answer to, but I've been thinking, would it be better or feel better if Spider-Ham hit a random card in the opponent hand? Opposed to the most left most.
Yeah, for sure, because then you could, yeah, for sure, because then you could just play, you know, getting the double proc on him with balance is what would really change it there, right? So, the reason I like him, though, is like, because for me, it's like, I'm trying right now, we're in a very combo centric meta. A super combo, like, each card has so much value into one deck. So Iceman and him are such a good one drop at the moment, because you want to include one of them to mess up the flow.
I'm at the point where I'd almost prefer spider ham because you're, you screw a card, it's done. It is it, it is absolutely wiped. Whereas Iceman disrupts it a little bit and I get that. But if it's a Loki, they played a turn later collector, same thing. But if I hit their collector, if I hit the Loki, if I hit the whatever it might be, with spider ham, like I have significant advantage and I have the intel. The one power less. In my opinion, man, I love Spider Man.
I think he's, he's, he's my, he's my disrupter now.
That's interesting. Maybe I got to test him a little more and get a better sense of like where he's at now. Like, obviously he's not close to where he was power wise prior. But to hear you having success with him is pretty unique because like I had a bit of an... An opposite effect. I was like, you know what? I love the card, but I just don't think it's doing it for me.
However, what I will say is I think it's a card that's very important to balance with caution, because if this card is overpowered, it is very quickly overbearing what it was prior, right? It's, it's like that leech effect. It is a leech effect, right? And if it gets out of hand or if it's too strong, like it was prior, then it's going to have a really, really negative impact on the meta and specifically in conquest where it can be an absolute terror.
This OTA was probably the most surprised I was with some changes. I, I was like, not expecting, I don't know if I called any of them outside of a collector potential adjustment. I, I was pretty shocked that, that all these cards were included in some capacity. The Black Cat was nice because I, I always love when like a really bad card. Get some attention, right? Like, each OTA where we don't have a strong guy, type a card, get some love. It's like, well, that was a missed opportunity.
So I, I was pumped to have Glenn take a focus on some of those cards today. But anyway solid OTA. Let's get to our first topic, man. Let's talk Ravonna. Now, you know, Elioth, I, I'm not ready to close that door. I want to talk to that. But I know on your new villains of Marvel Snap, we'll have our good conversation with him. Ravonna Renslayer is one of the bigger question marks, I think, for the community right now at the moment.
Again, if you guys don't know what she does, she's a 3 3 and she's gonna discount by 1 energy any card that is 1 power and below. And the thing is about her, man, There's never been a bad card that is an energy reduction enabler, right? Like, there's never been a bad one, albeit outside of Zabu with specific forecasts. This is probably the lowest pool of these cards, and they're oddly specific, but I want to break down everything.
I want to talk about the decks I think she's gonna be best in, the, you know, specific cards, and of course, Alex, you love talking about, like, real in game scenarios. I think it's gonna be cool to talk about that. With Ravonna but what I can start off by saying is, this will be her best week. Looking at these cards here, and we're gonna pull up the entire list, this is not all of them, but looking at these cards, and I'll get the next list up.
Let's talk first, like, a deck that you think is gonna be absolute fire with her, and she's gonna have that significant impact. And, or I want to hear your kind of initial thoughts on it.
For me, it's Patriot right off the bat. Like how can Patriot not benefit from Ravonna? Like it's just, it's too good. And it might actually allow for a more greedy style of Patriot because of the cost reductions that you're getting in Patriot and Mystique. Silver Samurai not being as popular as it is allows you to hold the the Patriot and Mystique later on to the game, which allows you to take advantage of that Ravonna.
But most notably, like, listen, we used to have a. form of Patriot that actually ran some greedier cards like Abomination and others. And it kind of got cut to be a little bit of a tighter Patriot because of the way the cost structures work. But now when you get that cost reduction on turn three, you can sneak out Patriot Mystique plus a two drop on turn six. It's actually pretty crazy if you think about it. I'm actually all for Patriot with Ravonna.
I think it might be one of the most natural deck builds.
Yeah, I mean, the fact that it gives you a lot of flexibility because you can play Patriot and Ravonna in a two drop, as you just alluded to. You can also just play Patriot and Mystique and have that extra one energy on turn five, which I think is massive because then you don't have to make that decision process. You could play let's say a three drop like Brood, then Patriot on five, then Mystique, and then a four drop, right?
So there's like a lot of kind of flexibility of what you could pull off. With the cards, and I do think, altogether, this is a great starting point to talk about her. I think she's going to bring a new style of play into 10 plus decks, which is massive. An absolutely massive adjustment. You know exactly what I'm talking about when I say, playing down certain cards on certain turns is all, is what Marvel Snaps about.
And I think Ravonna is gonna dramatically change the strategy on some of these decks, and as you've alluded to, kind of greed. And we're gonna pop the bricks, let me just ask, like, you know, what do you think, tier rating, 1 through 5 stars, S through F tier, what do you rate her?
You know what, it's so hard. This has been the card that's been hardest to pinpoint. This one and Alive. Like I'm telling you right now, Mobius is gonna slot, right? We know that, we knew Loki was gonna be pretty solid as well. But Loki's still surprised. Right? I think that a lot of cards have been surprising lately. So like, Ravonna has been one where I lean towards like a 3, a 3 star. However, depending on the meta conditions, I can see this floating up to 4.
Because like, here's the thing, Patriot's never bad. And like, I keep saying, okay, like, yeah, it's a Patriot. It's not just Patriot, it benefits on reveal. It benefits so many different lists. So like, but Patriot is one of the most universally solid decks in Marvel Snap. How the hell is adding Ravonna not a good thing for Patriot?
Yeah, and have we learned nothing about energy reduction at this point? You know what I mean? Like, have we learned nothing? Like, guys, listen, I know it's the hot take to say it's trash. A couple of things. First of all, I'll throw up the image of the spotlight week. I mean, who are we kidding? The Zabu variant, absolute fire. You know, Jean Grey, she has a bunch of good variants. But the card itself, if you don't have her... And then you get her as kind of this kind of bonus, right?
Dude, I took a peek at October's spotlights, right? So spotlights are all about saving up and looking what's ahead. Man, it's kind of lackluster. There's some cool new cards coming out, but my god, the first few weeks of Octo I mean, it's you got I believe it's Thanos, X23, and I got it here, Echo, right? So, cool week. Good week, no new card. If you're missing those, it'd be pretty strong. Not bad.
But then it's kind of the, the new card man thing, which we're not gonna break down October's cards, but Silver Samurai, Lady Deathstrike, I would say passable week. Black Knight, Statue of Modok, at this point you've had a lot of chances to get those cards. If you don't have them, great week. If not, it's a pass. And then Kitty Pryde, Phoenix Force in the new card. Silk, Ghost Spider in the new card.
To me, if you look at the weeks ahead, I feel like Ravonna will have the biggest impact for the wild. Right, and that's why I have her included in on what is already a cool variant week and as a card that I'm about to break down that I think is going to have significant impact.
It makes me nervous that Mobius is coming out the next week. Yeah. Like, we gotta be honest, right? Like, Mobius comes out next week and says no. Whenever cool decks came out, no.
Yeah, and Mobius is going to be very important and we can't... Talk about Ravonna and the details about her without mentioning it, right? But Mobius is the armor of the Cosmo to the cost reduction. People were like, well, people aren't going to run Mobius and all that. Yes, they probably are. It's a two cost, three power card. It may, like, someone said to me on the Serra guide, Mobius is going to cancel this deck. I'm like, yeah, guess what, though?
Mobius in the Serra deck then allows the wave not to counter it. And you just get rid of the biggest counter. Like, Mobius is going to have an impact across the board. But also, that's kind of the nature of the beast. You can't not run Honor Veil because you're afraid of Cosmo. You can't not run, you know, Destroy because you're afraid of Armor. He's a much needed card. And I think he's going to definitely tame the sexiness of Loki and Ravonna.
Because you now have something that can immediately kind of go against you. And then all of a sudden you lose that advantage that you once had by playing Loki or whatever it might be. However, listen, I, I get it's going to affect her as a card, I'm just standing by, I think she's going to be pretty solid for the game. So I want to talk about exactly why.
Now quickly, I will say this dude, if you do spend on Marvel Snap, I think it's important to say this, for whatever reason, if you do buy bundles and things like that, there is a Mobius bundle coming out as well, which is the first time we've really ever seen that. You get the Jet Ski Owen Wilson variant too for what it, for what it's worth. So you can technically just flat out get Mobius by getting that, right?
So if you do do that, it's something to take into consideration if you want to go after Ravonna here. And they're both Series 4, so maybe if you don't want the Zabu spotlight and you don't really care about Zabu then it may be be just worth going with the Collector Tokens. And then you get to do the Weekend Mission, right, and have some kickback. There.
When it comes to Ravonna, Alex, yeah, I think, I'm thinking I'm gonna give her a four star just because I think she will shift the metagame even with Mobius later on down the line. Right, so the month's December, and we've got these decks like Patriot that are now gonna be slotting her in. But, I'm glad you brought up Patriot because I think that'll be very solid for her. There's one deck in particular that I think... Is flirting with tier one flirting with an S tier deck.
And now it'll probably be a solid, a very solid at that tier one deck. And Alex, do you have a guess? You have a guess what that is?
Is it going to be Something was Zola?
Dude, that's a good guess. We have Zola to talk about for sure. It's Cerebro 3, man.
I should have known it was Cerebro. Damn it. I'm so I knew it. As soon as I said Zola, I'm like, he's gonna bring up a Cerebro picture.
Listen, man. Cerebro 3, I think, is It's been on the cusp. It's already so good, man. Because if you think about the three cost cards, it gets bananas once you start looking at all the three cost cards. This is going to propel this deck so forward. Because even if you have Mobius, if they have Perfect Draw, Right, sure, they shut you down a little bit, but it's not like the deck was already doing bad, right?
So then you have all of a sudden now this three cost card that is gonna get, er, three power card That's gonna get itself the bonus either way So just pure value inside of that list even if you can't get this combo off But if you can get Ravonna off the next turn you technically could pull off a Cerebral Mystique play Which is bananas to think about but also all the cards that have three power There's a lot of those That are just going to be impacted immediately by Ravonna and the different
combos that you can pull off. Dude, I'm thinking Cerebro 3, this is going to be it's time. And it'll be our last topic, but that means tech cards, we might see a return of Enchantress and Rogue pretty heavily. Like Alex, let me just show you the sheer amount of cards just to bring up the ones that work with C3, right? It's kinda crazy even if Enchantress gets big, cause you have like Invisible Woman to take the blow.
You have Scarlet Witch, you have Sentinel, you have got Shadow King, which actually was a major buff. To C3, because now he's even cheaper to get out there. This is the deck I think should impact the most.
It's actually wild to think that like Cerebral is legitimately getting competitive and it's shown in the last couple of weeks that it can win games. It can I think it floated to the top of the the leaderboard at one point. So like, it's pretty neat to see C3 doing what it's doing and it's an archetype that's only going to get better as more cards get released, right? Like as more cards, more options are kind of added to the game for C3. We even see like C5 experimentation, but it's not nearly.
As competitive, in my opinion, is C3. So you're right. And the shadow King, it's a huge buff.
I just think it's crazy that you can pump out all this power with cerebro and doing this C3 tech and then shadow King and Shang Chi both respond with counter power. Right, immediately, and they build your deck. Like, to me, that's what's kind of crazy with the whole deck, and why it's different than, let's say, C2. C5 has some of that now, like a lion. There's some fun things you can do there, but I think this is going to be naturally now a a competitive deck, which you're gonna have to accept.
OTAs happen. It kind of shifts these cards ins and out and it can mess all that up. Those are the obvious decks, Alex. Let's take a look at the cards that are going to be getting adjusted as well. And if we take a look, there's a couple playlines that I want to go ahead and focus on for some cards, right? First of all, I think without a shadow of a doubt, we've got ourselves Mystique down there, which is why we've talked about Patriot.
But the fact that being able to play Iron Man and Mystique, I think is an actual play line that is beyond legit. To have access to in every deck that runs Ravonna, Mystique, and Iron Man. Every single deck allows you to have a double power point in that location change for two locations. Tell me that's nutty. I mean, to me, like that is where the deck building gets really opened up. It's the greediest combo. You have to wait for turn six.
It's probably the ultimate combo. Honestly, like the idea of being able to play a four cost Iron Man and a two cost Mystique doubling the power of two locations, like, especially since I think the metagame is shifting towards much more impactful early turns. So the more power you place onto the board on the earlier turns, the more that gets doubled when you play a turn six Ironman mystique combo.
So I love the call and it definitely is going to be a terrifying combo and even then, like, what do you even do? Like you, you, you can't even run in chances. Like even if you skip the initiative and stuff like that, like what you're going to guess on one of them, they're still going to be hitting two locations on turn six. So it's pretty crazy how like defensible the play is as well.
What are some cards on here that you think are, even just for that one less power, if you can get it off on turn four, or on turn five, is going to have just that significant impact, whereas it doesn't matter if Möbius comes down later, because you already got what you want done.
There's two that have really stood out to me while kind of like researching Ravonna. The first is, are going to be the Goblin pairs specifically Hobgoblin. Playing goblin on turn four without the need of a daredevil or anything like that. I think you can much more confidently slide it into a location because you know, it's much less likely on turn four that they completely bombard or blockade a specific location, which I think is cool.
But but also like, as you, as you mentioned, the entire on reveal archetype really gets a lot of love here. I mean, you get Wolfsbane, Ironheart Forge. I mean, these are all cards that benefit and then you have a discard as well that gets the Morbius and Dracula.
Down to three costs as well, which could open up some shenanigans for for later turns because now Dracula is a three cost might provide you with opportunities to approach turn six differently instead of having to just always rely on Chavez as a turn six play discard apocalypse or whatever you might be able to do something a little crazier if you're playing your Dracula on turn six while holding the the sorry, the apocalypse in hand, right?
So I really like What those decks might look like and Ravonna really helps some of these cards with really high impact abilities Sneak out onto the board both either cheaper or in later turns in combination with other cards.
I just think there's a lot of hidden combos This is why I think she's a home run hit even having cards like we've already mentioned the forge the Arnim Zola these more dependable options The other archetype I want to talk about when we look at all this is mr. Negative So I think a lot of people Might look at this and say, Well, she's an obvious and Mr. Negative. We saw with Zabu, Some people don't prefer to play Zabu and Psylocke.
Because there's kind of this weird, like, Okay, but then you're putting another card that isn't benefiting from the flip. Right? That's the con of playing them. However, Alex, dude, I was looking at it more closely. Look at some of these other cards you can compound with Mr. Negative. That's not just discounting him, right? That, I think that's the important thing. Not just discounting him. But at this point, yes, Ravonna has to be played on three.
So all of a sudden you can't, you're not gonna be able to play him down early. It's not exactly that. It's a nice, you know, kind of default Zabu, but it's more of Adam Warlock can be played to get more draw for only one cost. If we keep looking, Psylocke, as we just mentioned too Ironheart, who, these are going to get flipped! But they work! They do work. Now, will you want to play her over something like Bast? When in reality, that's such a great combination as well? I'm not sure.
But I do think Mr. Negative is another archetype that could get some serious benefit that already run the majority of these cards, because they naturally have... Less than one power.
I think the comparison here is going to be the current Loki deck. And hear me out. Loki is often designed in a way where it has a second option. A second line in the event that Loki's not drawn. Mr. Negative has never had that. Mr. Negative has always been in a situation where if you don't draw a negative, you lose. If you do draw a negative, hopefully they don't retreat and you just slap them free cubes, right? That's basically how it works.
Ravonna might make a Mr. Negative deck less risky with an additional line for victory. I think that's pretty interesting. Cause I don't know about you, but every time I play Mr. Negative, it's on the bottom of my deck literally every single time. And I've been very vocal about me not liking Mr. Negative decks for that exact reason, I never draw them. I just don't, I'm the cube donator when I'm playing Mr. Negative. However, with Ravonna, there's the potential to design decks that have two lines.
You have the Mr. Negative line and you have the Ravonna line. And while. There could be an argument to say, like, sometimes that's just a deck that lacks identity, right? I think there's something to be said about that, because sometimes you want a deck that just does the thing it's designed to do really, really well.
There's cards in the game, like Zabu, when they're, when they're specific to numbers, it means all of a sudden, they have their future proof. And I think that's an important thing to remember. Anything now that comes out that's gonna be a strong card because it doesn't have too much power is immediately gonna work with Ravonna. I think it's kind of a no brainer in my opinion but it also depends where you're at, what you spin, what you don't have.
If you don't have Zabu, don't even think about it. Just go right in and with eyes closed. This is a, this is a banger week. But you know, if you do it's gonna feel pretty damn good to get this card. I think she's gonna be a lot of fun. Although, she might struggle a bit more with Mobius, but give her time. I think it'll take more time than you think to get the optimal decks out. You're not gonna see the day one YouTubers, this is the best Ravonna deck, because it won't be.
I think it's gonna take a little time because we've got a lot of synergy, man with this card.
You're absolutely right. I want to just end on this point. I said prior, probably a 2 3 star 3 star card, but that is during this launch week, launch phase, Mobius phase. Once Mobius popularity starts to wane a little bit, which it will, because everyone's going to stop playing with the new hotness, and new cards come out, you're going to see Ravona being a 4 star card. I do certainly believe that.
Because it is, as you said, every single card that's released within its scope, Is going to make that card better. And over time, you're going to find a list that absolutely bangs and you know, Ravonna is going to be a major part of it. So I think that the future for Ravonna is really bright. I'm just kind of sad. That's like, it gets one week before like the big hammer comes down on it. But the future is bright. There's no question about it.
I think this card is going to slap overall in the long term. Well, it's funny.
Cause it's going to do this, then this, then this, right. Because Mobius will be playing more that week than ever. Just like every week we've seen these cards come out and it's going to have this dramatic Ravonna sucks. And then it's going to. Even out when, you know, the new season pass comes and da da da da. It, it's, stay patient. I think Gravona will be worth it in the long run, personally. And I'm willing to eat that if it's not, but it's a card that shows a lot of promise in my book.
Let's go ahead and move the page, let's go forward, buddy. We got our next topic at hand, and I thought it would be fun. We've done this in the Snapchat before. But I thought it would be fun to look back, we've got Loki who's tremendous as a season pass card. But I want to go now and talk about the past season cards, the past season pass cards and rank them. So I want to take a look at when they came out. How effective were they? How effective are they still today?
And we're going to be comparing them against each other. Right, so S tier or let's say a C tier on this list, may not be a C tier card overall, but in the scope of season pass cards, that might be where it belongs. I feel like for the most part, there's probably only been two seasons that have felt like a miss. Maybe three. Do you feel the same?
Yeah, the majority of these season pass cards have been pretty impactful and the ones that haven't been, I feel like you felt it on the meta, like you felt like, ah, nothing really happened here this month and that kind of feels bad so yeah, I'm actually really interested in this conversation and specifically how far some of them have come because some of them went from completely irrelevant to being major staple cards today.
So here it is this is our S A B C D F, if you're listening on the podcast, I will be obviously shouting out. Where we are gonna place each one, and we're gonna start all the way back prior to the launch. And so, some of you guys may not know this, some of you guys might, that these cards they came out as Season Pass cards, right? And we start with Wave, which was a Season Pass card, Alex, and you know, I think we could be quicker on this one, right?
Regardless of the meta, I remember those that didn't start on the Wave Season Pass. Was that such a significant disadvantage because of how card acquisition used to be?
Yeah, that's like, that's me. That's me. Literally, I started the game immediately as the season pass ended for wave. And like, I got invited to the beta and all this stuff. And then like the season pass ended and the new one began. I never got a chance to grab wave. And I was like, ah, what's the big deal? And I'm like, wait a minute, death wave. Wait, it was one of the most impactful season passes of basically all season passes. And I missed it. I missed it.
And I was one of the first players to play this game, but I wasn't the first apparently. So I was so sad, but you're right. And the old, by the way, the old method about card acquisition was so painful compared to what we have now.
We complained, but my god, it was so much worse before, and I didn't see Wave until like, literally months after, so I finally pulled it out in my pool three shenanigans, but, yeah, I, it says to your card, it's always been, it probably always will be, this card's unbelievable.
I just love it, man, it's so fun, it's such a fun card, and the fact that Mobius is gonna be able to be the only thing that can truly turn the off switch on Wave. Is wild. I think that's Gonna be wild times we'll be living in. So Wave, we're gonna go through quickly on some of the obvious ones. Thor was our next season pass card. He was a four cost when he came out. Was actually pretty trash.
He was, he had more power, but he was trash because you didn't have a lot of turns to get his Mjolnir to power him up. And then we have Thor today that I think is a Janejaw card, right? Like that's what he, that's his main purpose.
Yeah, absolutely. It's the only place he's really played in Janejaw. Yeah, it's pretty much the only place he gets played. But he's good there. He's really good there. He's a staple to that deck.
Where do you have him? Against other season pass cards.
So, I would give him a C, honestly. I lean towards C.
Yeah, I think, I think C, and maybe even D. Not that I don't love Thor, but like, in comparison to the impact of like, what you would be able to do with him in Dex, I, I, I would even lean D just because of like, It you would be restricted if he if thor came out as a season pass card today, I think he'd be Pretty hated because I think he'd have like one niche and then people would just cosmo it, you know, if it was like super popular That's my personal opinion, but it is thor I'll settle for
your seat placement. That's fine Next up we have Daredevil, which I think was obviously a a massive card to come to Marvel Snap for a long time. Served a very healthy role. I would say, up until Jeff came out one of the best cards in the game. Where do you have Daredevil on your list?
Air Devil, I mean, for him, he used to be an A for me. I would lean high B, but I would, I would, I'm comfortable in the A category for him, for sure.
Oh yeah, I, just for the, for me, the weight that he had the entire time he came out, he's still good today. It's not like he's bad by any means. I think he was S tier all the way up, now he's, you know, he's an A, B tier car that you just don't include as much. Again, because of the way Jeff works and because of the way professor X is being played nowadays with the storm high Evo decks. I think he's a no, a no doubt. Hey dude.
He's definitely great. I just think that there's so many competitive two drops, right. That aren't necessarily season pass cards that have caused him to get cut. Cause like the most difficult part of moral snap is the 12 card. deck part, right? And there are occasions where daredevils getting cut and even in like the Thanos control, like he was being cut because you play the professor X on two to four, like, you know what I mean? Or like you'd play the profess early.
So the daredevil wasn't actually necessary all the time. So I found him getting cut more often. And that's why I leaned towards like low a. Hi B, but he's definitely one of my favorite cards in the game. And fun fact, for those that recently just started playing Marvel snap, he used to make the whole screen go red, which made it impossible to actually see what the hell was going on.
Well, imagine him coming out today, though. I like to imagine some of these cars launching a season pass. This guy would be hyped through the moon, like through the moon. This guy would be all over the YouTube that the other shock faces. The I can't believe this is a season pass card because his effect is that dramatic. I do feel like. We have kind of thrown him by the wayside and or just how cards are being played out with five and six guys, just how the way it's all working together.
But his effect is, is legendary, man. Absolutely legendary. Now next up we've got, believe it or not, Nick Fury season pass card. Wolf. Nick Fury. Now he was trash up until, what, July? June? Was it June he got adjusted?
Yeah, recently, like, he was just hot garbage on release. I feel like I was one of the only believers in Nick Fury, and even then I was lying to myself.
You were, yeah, you were the only believer because you were the only believer because there was none. Yeah, he was definitely just not great at value. Was it worth using? And now good a good card, a card that I like to use. But still is getting slotted out in the most premium lists, man. If you take all of it in consideration, where do you have Nick Fury? I think Thor, by the way, needs to go in D tier.
I was just going to say, I was going to say if, if Thor is D, Nick Fury is going to be like, just with him or C, right? Cause I'm thinking about like Nick Fury is better than Thor right now, isn't he?
Yeah, of all time, I'm going to put, like, if we're taking into consideration all this and paired up with each other. Honestly, as a season pass card, bro, Nick Fury would be an F to you, man. If you, if you think about how long it took him to be relevant to. If you, like, I love Nick, I love the card right now, he's great. But it took him a year to be good. As a season pass card, I give Nick Fury an F. And that sucks, dude.
I would accept D, cause he's good now though, he's playable now. But he was pretty awful before.
But if you can go past. You gotta weigh him all together, as a season pass card, and how long it took him to be good. When he came out, it took him Dude, you had a dead season card, you had a dead card. Imagine like I don't know, Phoenix Force being dead for ten months. It's true. It's true. It's rough. It's a, it, it was a different world of Marvel Snap, but it's crazy that it took as long as it did.
I'm willing to put 'em in, in f for now and maybe we change our, I mean, listen, maybe we change it. This, this is not a scripted discussion, right. We're gonna make some changes if necessary. Agreed. I'm okay. Let's go F Let's go F 'cause I, I like what you're saying. You're talking about like the entire history of the card as a season pass card. Yes. Nick Free has a lot of history and a lot of it is it's dog.
So, yeah, it's weighing all these things, weighing all these things together, right? And that's where I put them. So then we enter launch, right? So launch of the game happens. Miles Morales comes out, which is an interesting card to come out for like move, which was trash until pool three is still trash. So like, interesting, but then we have them today and the silky smooth decks and how he works together. And, and again, looking at them as a pure season pass card. Where do you have him?
As a pure season pass card? He's probably a C because he was like Nick Fury kind of irrelevant for a while, but now he's an important cog in a lot of decks. Like he's actually legit in a lot of decks right now. Yes, it's the move archetype. Yes, it's the silky smooth archetype, but those are impactful, not move, but silky smooth. Like last time I checked, it's at a 59 percent win rate, even after the nerfs to captain Marvel, like this deck still slaps and miles Morales is a huge component of it.
And I think that the metagame the the way we process Snap and value and all those kind of things, right? Miles would've been played earlier than he was, even back then, if people put the wait till 1. 5 to what it was, right? Like the emergence of everythi all these things taken into consideration. I feel like C is probably a good spot for him as well. Black Panther, up there as one of the more hyped ones because on reveal was the all the rage.
It's fun to look back at this all the rage the movie just came out double power man We were having people put 2 billion power on the board. It's so cool to see where do you have? Black Panther as a season pass card because I feel like he's a tough one. He's a tough one to rank.
I feel like this was one of the first cards that you and I really disagreed on, by the way. Didn't I come in saying this card was complete filth and you were really high on it? And then in my defense, it didn't do much for a while. And it only really started coming on when people started truly figuring out natural ways to put it in decks. Not just the, I'm gonna Black Panther Zola every game and make it super obvious. I think that it has had a resurgence in a big degree.
When you look at the whole history, I think it leans C. But, ultimately, I think this card is towards B. Could even touch A, but for season pass, I think it's a strong B.
There's not a lot of cards, I think I would never give it an A. There's just not a lot of cards, though, that can win you the game just by playing that and one other card, right? And that's what he did. And there wasn't a lot of answers to it back then And what's so cool about him is he when he doubles he goes to an eight So he's under the shang chi and then he could be used to to get to go over The five cost has always been his kind of hurdle. Man. I like him.
I do I do I think I would put him either kind of mile zone And C or lower B. By the way, these are not in the order from top to bottom. This is just where we have them here. So we have one officially in every category. Nick Fury and F, and everybody across over there. Fun stuff. I think people might disagree on Black Panther's placement, but, dude, build an on reveal list and don't have them in it. It feels weird. Next season.
Yeah, but what are they going to disagree on? Like, I'm curious about that. What do you think they're disagreeing on?
Just their usage of him. I think that he, they might have him in C. I think just like.
Yeah, that's kind of. Okay. I don't disagree. I don't disagree, but like, I think that it's okay to have a recency slant here. I think that Black Panther works in a lot of lists.
Yeah, I think it's good before that too. He was good before that. I think that. Again, when he came out, it's like any freaking card coming out. Everybody knew Black Panther were in these decks, so they just ran Cosmo, and then they're like, this card sucks, and then, well, and then we get like, I don't know, our next card we're gonna talk about in Silver Surfer. And then they forget about him, and then you can Arnim Zola again, right? So like, that, that, the reason, I, I, I don't know.
I, I can see some comments here, I'm gonna be excited to see them. Silver Surfer, let's not waste time, man. I think now, then, in the future, can we just say an S Tier card, buddy? Easy S Tier. Yeah, and we're gonna just lean into Zabu. Let's just put them both there. But for fun's sake, let's just talk about, for those that got into Marvel Snap late, right, what did Silver Surfer launch at, Alex?
It was a 3 0 and it absolutely slapped because it gave 3 plus power across the board. You thought Brood was bad now? Dude. You thought Brood was bad now? Brood was straight up oppressive back then and just so everything was. I can't believe it lasted as long as it did. Like, okay, in the modern era of Snap, Silver Surfer gets nerfed in like a week and a half.
Yeah, Sarah Surfer negative and Sarah Surfer were so, I remember seeing a brood and I'd be like, well, that lane's dead. Like, it wasn't even maybe I can win it. It's like, dead lane. It's done. I lost. And then like, what was crazy is he came out right when all the series cards came out. So you had like Absorbing Man and Bass like sneaking in there in these lists because like, not a lot of people had them. And like, dude, it was pure chaos, agent of chaos.
Zomber was even somebody must have been hammered after years Eve. To the Zabu check, because Zabu discounted forecast by negative two and it was a brutal month of snap.
It was brutal. It was absolutely ridiculous. The absorbing man, spider man combos that went at the time where he actually like blocked the lane off was so depressing. I just like, I guess I won't play this video game. Right. It was absolutely brutal, but you know what, honestly, let's give second dinner some credit here. Very elegant nerf. If not one of the most elegant nerfs they've ever done,
the best, the best nerf they've done because they handled the two most purchased probably season pass cards and made sure they didn't suck. And made sure you know, it's funny, like, when Kitty Pryde got nerfed, she was like, everyone was like, I can't believe it, and then, like, look at what she did, right? And then they had a, a fixer, in fact. Because people remember what they were, but just because they're not where they were, doesn't mean they weren't bad.
We might even see this with Loki in the future, right? February, MODOK, man. It's a tough one. Modoc, what do you, where do you place them?
For me, I would put them in a, and I'll tell you why that's high. That's high, but I'll tell you why he's in it. He's an a, because nothing does for discard. What Modoc does. You cannot functionally play discard without Modoc right now. There are some lists floating around that are trying some like hell cow and like discard stuff with the black cat and ghost ride. Like I get it, but Modoc is such a vital component to discard. It is.
Essential if you're a discard player, I think it's a simply because it's good. It's still a power, which is not insignificant. And it does something for an archetype that just lifts it from like the ashes. Like discard without Modok doesn't feel like discard anymore. It feels like RNG. It feels like just a gamble, a gamble festival.
I think he's an easy A. Like, an easy A, right? Because think about it, if you were running the Reliable Discard back in February, like, when no one was playing it, right, because that got popular in late April, if you were pl you had an infinite season for, like, seven seasons, because that deck was that good for that long, and it's still good today, right? So agreed. I think he's an A tier, he's had his worth, he's had his lastness. Love the card.
Nimrod, which is controversial, came out very lackluster, then was great, then now is awesome, right? So, I think he's a tougher one to rank because of recency we want to just say, oh, he's a great card. I would say probably average as a B though.
It's hard. When he came out, he was on a D side, maybe even F, but there was also like Leech. That was like the heyday of Leech, which was destroying like a lot of his combo plays, because like you would basically play Nimrod on five and then Leech would just hit you 90 percent of the games. So you couldn't even do anything. So Nimrod had a bad meta around it, like a really bad meta. Similar to like, When, like, we joke about how Jean Grey came out at the wrong time with Bounce.
Nimrod came out at the wrong time, too. However, what I will say is when I'm chillin and I want to lay back and play some Marvel Snap, Shuri Nimrod Destroyer 456 all day long. That's what I'll play all day long. I wouldn't have to think. I'm not even doing the math. I'm just throwing cards down. I'm just throwing cards down, and I'm letting them bounce around, and I'm winning games. I actually really like Nimrod. If you think it lands B, I'll accept it.
It feels like an A right now, but it was a D back then, Cozy.
And it took a while, too. That's why I averaged it out. To think, to me, because of the whole F up on the Kitty Pryde situation, she always just kind of felt like the season pass card, and Nimrod was just kind of like existing. I just think it was a miss having him as the featured card to begin with, and I think they, probably looking back, Would realize the same now that they've seen the impact of what Kitty Pryde has done altogether.
Pretty whiff of a season 2 looking back at, like, Negasonic and Wolf. I forgot that he was right after Nimrod, but Hitmonkey came out. Who, in datamines, was, like, scary. He was looking scary because he was. He was insanely good. Hitmonkey was absolutely everywhere. In fact, I think they nerfed him way too hard. It's sad, he's still fine, but it's sad to see what he's come to. And now that Shadow King's a freaking two cost, they need to bring him back.
Because now you have a direct answer to close everything they just did with Hitmonkey. In my opinion, it's disgusting what they've done to Hitmonkey. Taking all things into consideration and how long he lasted, where do you have him?
This is, this one's hard, because this was like an S tier card. It was an S tier card, I don't care what anyone says. Like, it was putting up insane points on turn 6 in the best archetype in Marvel Snap. And then now, it feels like it's getting cut, like, your Shadow Sarah deck was like, one of the first times I've seen Hitmonkey featured in a legitimate deck in a long time. Like, think about it, this card...
Died essentially, even in balance, like in tournament play, people were not playing hit monkey and bounceless. I was like, what is even happening now? Like they were cutting them. So like he went from an S to basically a D right. And if you want to say he's a B or C, I would accept it overall. Like his highs were so high. So I think that carries them past C. So I'd accept the B placement, but you're right.
Like. I think that they need to consider doing something with, with Hitmonkey, now specifically that Shadow King is now in a mix as a tech card at two cost.
I hope to see him in the next OTA man, if you listen to the second editor throw some consideration the monkey's way. Nebula, man, Nebula, kind of always that card that has always been good, right, always did her role. Kitty Pryde, everybody got for free, so that kind of like slowed her down a bit from her rocket month. But still isn't every like, top in list today, right? Like, just play Nebula out. I think I have Nebula for an A. I think an A feels pretty good.
I felt like I was just gonna have to sell you on her being an A. I agree to that. I feel like I'm one of the highest on a Nebula. Cause like, people don't see Nebula as a control card. But it is. I don't care what anyone says. It's a control card. It's almost like Jean Grey without force, for punishing them without playing there. It's like, hey, this is basically Jean Grey light. Except if you don't play there, I'm just getting power and I don't care. Right?
Yeah, I 100 percent agree. I was talking, I was doing a turn by turn for my High Evo deck. And I was explaining why you want her first over like Sunspot. Because then you're like, you're forcing where they need to go. Like, you, you immediately get a little bit of leverage. Because you know what they have to do. And, and that with location reveals can really pay off over time. So, yep, love the A placement. Ghost Spider is one that I, listen, it's not that she doesn't help move a lot.
It's not that she was not very impactful, and I think she's underplayed still to this day. I have her for D. I think I'm gonna put her in the D tier.
I accept that. Like... It's probably an F in popularity wise, but I think this card is way better than people give it credit for. At one drop, it's insane. There's so many combination plays you can do. I think it's basically that the move archetype, outside of like the one specific move deck, is just kind of dead in the water. Like, traditional move, like Heimdallr move and stuff like that, even Vulture to some degree, like those style decks aren't really a thing anymore.
It's the Craven, the Silks. That's the playstyle that Ghost Spider doesn't really excel in, right? So like, what do you do? You, like, could you just Ghost Spider someone into a Craven lane? But then that's two slots taken. That's not what you want. So, Ghost Spider I think is a victim of the move meta, but a way better card than it that we're giving it credit for.
Phoenix Force the fastest adjustment we've ever seen on a card by a mile. Another card that I do think is underplayed that isn't the best thing. I think I'm going to still give it's average at a D even though C is where I see it over time. It's tough cause I, I actually am kind of on the Phoenix force train of loving the card a lot. And I think you can do some wacky things with it. Yeah. I'm going to give it a D.
It's a card that like, honestly, when someone pulls off the Phoenix force, a multiple man combo on me, I'm like, I'm just retreating. I'm not dealing with this. Like you get the wind, you get it. I I'm leaving. Bye bye. Right. I just don't. I just not, like, it's, it's good. When you get that combo, it's good. But when you don't get that combo, and it doesn't quite work for you, it feels like a bit of a dead card. But, it's a very combo centric card.
Doesn't surprise me that you like it then, but Yeah, Phoenix Force, I think that D is an appropriate placement.
Dockin. Where do you have Dockin? A card that had a lot of hype. I think, living up to the hype, he fell flat. But still a good card. Would you agree that he's in between these two?
I would, I would lean B. I would see, I think he's good. Like, I don't think he's C I think he's good. He's if anything, I actually think he's being underappreciated. Like he's a very consistent three eight and we used to play Maximus very consistently, and that's a bigger downside than docking. So. Yeah, if you think like three eights bad, then I don't know what you think is good.
Like three eight is good So i'll tell you it's always three eight Let's be honest ain't nobody not getting that shard down
or most of the time it's tough not to man You have a million things working for you and then obviously we could just throw in loki into the s tier the newest season just a phenomenal card Well, the one thing, we, we gotta get to our last subject that we'll have on a shorter time limit today, but the one thing you do looking at this is it's cool to kind of see the bell curve outside of possibly the C tier, which we could arguably put one or two cards in there. They've done a pretty good job.
They've done it, especially since launch, of making these cards unique, special, not over the top, but good cards, especially looking at our S list. I actually think we nailed this ranking here.
I like, I like it too. I like it too. The one that, the one that sticks out to me is like, I worry about my black Panther comments. I feel like it could be higher. I disagree with anyone that says black Panther should be lower. Like I think the cards way better. Like I've really grown to like black Panther. It's the one that I'm staring at. I'm like. Black Panther's not a B today. He's not a B today, but I get the scope, but he was always kind of good. Has he been changed?
No, he's been consistent the entire time.
He's been the same. Yeah, I think Miles Morales will get kicked back.
Like, the key combo pieces were all there. Maybe just like, the decks weren't there yet. Like, I feel like Black Panther's always been better than maybe I realized, or we realized, or like, what's the, you see what I mean? Like, isn't Black Panther low on this list, no?
Yeah, I think there's, it's tough when comparing them to each other. I kind of like him where he's at. I, I, I don't know if I would fudge with a lot of these, Dawken is, is tough in his playability right now. And I feel like we're convincing ourselves, even though he's good, I just feel like he's not being played, right? And I think Ghost Spider people would have an EFT er. Because of just her, yeah, popularity contest for some of these cards.
But overall, let us know in the comments down below, and if you're listening on the podcast, shout it out to The Void. Let's go to our last subject, which we are going to be a bit quicker on, but I want to just, I wanted to touch on this after the Shadow King buff. If you look at the meta decks across Snap right now, Alex, there's one kind of spot in Loki, one spot in Hayivo, all these decks have one spot for a tech card. Right Shang Chi exit out a little bit.
Shadow King is, in my opinion, the premier tech card at the moment. He comes with some cons, I guess, but would you have him at the number one slot?
Shadow King right now is the most playable tech card, I think, for sure. And he's still tricky, like, there's gonna be times where, like, it's like, you gotta hold him late, it's... But, like, he, he eats Shuri decks, he eats, like, he just does so well against so many different decks. I love playing him on, on Cravens, I love playing him on Angelus. And often... He's taking people by surprise. I don't care what anyone says. No one's accounting for a shadow King play.
Yeah, I think shadow King's great. And I think the, the buff to him is pretty significant. Cause I had two costs. You can slide them into so many different lists. Like Sean, she's a four. So that's kind of the reason why I think people start to move away. Cause you're seeing a reduction in play of Zabu. So the forecast plus Sean cheaply on turn six, isn't nearly as common anymore. Mobius is coming out. So that's going to be even harder to pull off.
So Sean, she's getting his ceiling kind of pushed down a little bit and it makes more room for some other tech cards.
If you could have, if it wasn't Shadow King, you have one spot available. Who's the next one going in your deck?
It's Luke Cage for me. It has to be Luke Cage. I don't care what anyone says. I think that it's my, it's our fault. We've been talking about how Evo is being, being slept on for weeks and it has been, it was like a one and a half percent meta share three weeks ago. Now it's pushing 7%, 6%. And I think that Luke Cage is a pretty confident add on in a lot of decks right now, from a tech perspective, not just for locations, but it absolutely eats high evils lunch. And I think that's important.
Yeah. If it wasn't Luke Cage to me, I can't, I'm puzzled by it. I can't understand it. Hopefully the rise of C3 continues to make it go up to me. Cosmo is the most disrespected tech card in the game right now. Listen, if you look at those top decks. This answers a good amount of those problems. You can shut down Loki agent Colston and all their card gain and what they want to try to do there to get a significant card advantage on you. Just how a lot tribunal alone.
You'd have to worry about that BS, right? Like that, that exists and it's out there. You don't have to worry about that. And it's just answering and responding to Galactus, to Alioth. He's the one that I'm running in my Loki decks and High Evo decks. I have him in both funny enough. Because then if you look at Luke Cage, yeah he's cheaper and I, I, trust me man, you don't have to sell me on Luke Cage.
But in High Evo, the reason I have him in there instead of, let's say, my own Luke Cage, is that I can throw him on as well onto my Sunspot lane and Nebula lane to protect them. From the shadow king, right? So he also does the job of protecting the cars that you want to protect He helps shuri lists, you know trying to protect something that you've played down. That's pretty big and just galactus Galactus is everywhere and this in my opinion.
Don't worry about matching the power get the priority throw him down That's why I have him so high and then I think we can both agree Shang Chi would naturally fall up next, yeah.
I love what you're saying about Cosmo. It's a, it's a definite underappreciated element of it. A lot of people see Cosmo as a defensive play. But it could also be used offensively in a sense, like obviously against Galactus. But the way I like to use it is, I don't build a Devil Dinosaur deck without... Cosmo, because if you drop a devil dinosaur in turn five, you are begging for it to get punched the hell out.
And so what you're able to do is you play that, that Cosmo knowing that that's where my devil dinosaur is going so that I can play mystique conflict in another location knowing that that devil dinosaur is going to survive it. It fights through and chance to fight through Shaanxi. So, like, I like what you're saying there about how people are kind of sleeping on Cosmo. And it's funny because there was a time where it was by far the most hated card in the game.
People were saying, Got to nerf Cosmo, get rid of it. Then we said, And then I remember the development team saying, No, like we got a card coming, which ultimately was Echo. The only card that really interacts with it on turn six is Magneto. But ultimately, I really do like what it does for the game. I think what keeps it in check is it's. It's double effect.
Like the fact that it impacts the player who's playing it, it's a higher skill cap card that people give a credit for because you can screw yourself. You can be like, well, I put Cosmo in the wrong spot and now I can't play anything because especially when your opponent is playing storm and restricting maybe your play, that Cosmo sitting in a location might be a disaster for you.
So I get why people are a little more hesitant, but it's impact is legitimately one of the highest impact cards in the game.
Listen, the rise and fall of the meta extremely impacts these next cards here. And we'll wrap it up with this. Right now, ongoing isn't all that crazy. What I love about Ravonna is she's gonna bring back Patriot, this Mystique, and Iron Man play. Mobius is an ongoing effect. And so even if you get Mobius, you can have Ravonna. You can play Enchantress, and then it still opens up your Iron Man, Mystique play if you so want to, right? I think because of the rise of Ongoing, she's coming back.
She's coming back with her five power. Definitely don't sleep on her. But yeah, I think we covered the top three at the moment. With Shang Chi still being Shang Chi, man. Still feels great to have in these decks. Still doing what he does best. And if C3 truly goes through the next level, it's gonna, he's definitely gonna be included in that as well. So that'll wrap up the MVP tech card conversation, Alex. Let's move on to the new villains of Marvel Snap.
I'm excited because I think people are gonna just feel the rage from us and I can feel the rage from the viewers.
How has your experience been this week?
Honestly, man, I was talking to Dexter about this. I've been playing more Snap than ever because of the infinite rank system. I love it, man. It's addicting. I'm a competitive guy. It's what gets me playing these games. And there's some flaws with it, dude. But like, I just I love chipping away, man. And I'm trying my damnness to get in like eventually the top two 50 is my overall goal on the infinite system. But what about you, man?
It's so funny. You mentioned that prior to the release of the ranks, I wish they would have told us that like, Hey, we're kind of keeping track of your MMR and using it for this new system right off the bat. Cause like legitimately before this launched, I was doing streams where we were doing like these Agatha waifu decks. We're like building the worst possible decks that chat could like call out. I was like, turn one snapping. Feeding eight cubes over and over and over again.
Right.
I did so much damage to my rank and it's just, but you know what though, it's like for the content, it was so much fun, but I'm climbing, I'm climbing.
Oh, a hundred percent, same dude, I've nuked my, MMR from that. But what I love is it does equal out man, like you have to grind a bit more, but like you'll see yourself kind of start rocketing through you know, but it can be tougher without question, man. But yeah, dude, this week has been crazy. I've been itching on this side because I want to talk Elioth, bro. Just like, just a yes or no, do you like Elioth? As a card.
Yes, I do. I like Elioth. I think he's cool.
Same here. I thought you nailed it last week. You said that we need to see the card play out to see if he's gonna be good. And it took about one game of drawing him that I shouldn't have won, that I was like, yeah, okay, he's good, right? Like...
This was probably the most frustrating week of him, and just like any card, i. e. leech, the more people play these kind of cards, the more they become villains of Marvel Snap, which is obviously going to be taking us to the first subject of your side here, man. I'm excited to talk, because we kind of have always talked about the villains of Marvel Snap, i. e. the old days of Sherry. Who do you think is the biggest villain today?
I'll be honest with you. We got some stats. We need to talk about Elias is definitely the biggest villain right now. 27 percent meta share at a 54 percent win rate. There's two things that stand out there. One, the new hotness, everyone that has them is playing them. Right. But his win rate's actually not that high. 54 percent is not insane. In comparison, Galactus is at a 15 percent at 54%.
And Hey, is this surprising to hear that Elioth and Galactus have the same win rate and I'm tying them together here. Cause there's no way we can't talk about Elioth without talking about Galactus. We nailed it last week. We said like, Hey, this is going to be a crazy deck. If you're able to drop the Galactus, they literally can't do anything on turn six. And guess what cozy they can't do anything on turn six. Like it's exactly what we expected.
It's a two cube machine. You know, I think here's the, first of all, I have 403, Elias boosters. I've been playing a lot of the life, right? Like I I've pumped in the hours. I haven't upgraded from here. I actually liked the purple on the purple. I've played this card enough to know where he works, where he doesn't work. He is like all these cards that come out that are just. So frustrating.
It's gonna take time for people and the player base to build into their system that he exists in the world, right? Like he's just a very Dominating card at what he does. He will lose your games. He will win your games There's there's two ties of how he works together and there's ways to obviously beat him But man, he's just one of those cards that, he's added a new, just, a horde of a combo. Not only on Galactus, but with the Lockdown Dex, the High Evo Dex. Dude, he's filthy.
He's a card, he's probably the most card that if it shows up and you weren't expecting it, you're like... It's, it's infuriating.
I love that you said that because the way I've been playing him primarily, I've been playing a ton of Alioth. In fact, I actually convinced one of my buddies that plays pretty casual, like spend your tokens. I think this card is pretty damn cool. Cause he loves Galactus too. Like he loves that's the very disruptive style gameplay where I've been playing a light though has been an IEVO and it's been by far my favorite use of him. Because what I've been doing is I've been playing a lion.
With shocker because now I can more often than not, you'd be surprised how often shocker hits Alioth or hits Hulk. So you get, or Dr. Dew in the list and you get this five, six style play where you're like, you're dropping these big bombs on five and six. But the thing I love is I'm running a storm version so you can storm Cyclops. And then like, you've won a location. And if you can set up Tempo on the other, I mean, it's just a lieth territory the whole time.
And like, I am ripping cubes out of guys hands because they just, they don't anticipate a lieth in that type of shell. And that's where he might actually be strong in these lockdown style shells that aren't obvious. The ones that aren't even Galactus might be the ones where you steal the eight cubes. I love them.
Yeah, it was my, there's my deck guide that came out today when we were recording this, it was the number one deck that I have climbed with. This season is High Evo Lockdown with Alioth. It is, you're right. You just gotta cheat one lane, and then you win the other. And that's with Hulk, or that's with Alioth. And it's, it's pretty damn simple. I mean, it's one or the other, and truly, to me, what's made so much sense is playing Wave in these decks. I explained it in my guide today.
Playing Wave on five, on these High Evo decks. The reason I love it so much, it's not that you restrict them to the one card, although that is nice. Because it's a huge counter, especially if you have Doom, Hulk, or Elioth. Because that just has synergy. But what people are missing, Alex, do you know what the other reason is? What people are missing?
Because they proc all the energy savings across the board.
Exactly. You're playing these six power cards, or six cost cards, for four! Meaning you're allowed to then get the double, get more on Hulk, get the shocker. Bam, bam! You're getting a lot. Spoken like a true high evil player. You're getting a lot of bonus there, man. And Elioth in lockdown will be his future home. It is my guess. I've seen a lot of people saying he's gonna get nerfed. I don't think it. I had a long debate with somebody about this. Maybe a 6 4. Maybe.
I don't think he needs to be that. The Galactus, I get it. Anything that's ran right now is gonna be the villain, especially in just a huge regard to play rate. So if a Leith right now is hated, which it makes sense. It's a new card that's very dominating that if you can, if you don't pay for him, then he's frustrating.
But, Just how x23 we've known about Alioth for a long time the way the system works You could have gotten him it for the most part You could have gotten this card if you really wanted him.
You could have gotten them because at a 27 percent meta share There is no way it's poly cash. They're working. Let's think about this critically 27 percent meta share right now is of current stats There is no way if that card released in the traditional series 5 system that there would have been a 27 percent meta share People were able to unlock this card using spotlight caches. They wouldn't, like, before they would have only had tokens.
They would have had to try, there's no way you unlock it just rolling the collector's reserves.
Oh, this would have been a nightmare.
The card's getting into people's hands.
Yeah, and it's, this, this is a conversation that's just going to piss people off. Like, I get, I, we, these conversations happen. But truly, it's what I see on my, like, I saw someone saying pay to win because Jeff was in a deck. At this point, at this point, if you don't have Jeff, you elected not to get him. Like, and he didn't come out in the best week. Okay, like per se, so I do understand that Jeff maybe.
But when it comes to Spotlight, if you're an active player in Marvel Snap, Like, the opportunity is right there to get these cards, no? Like, it's re it's th you have the opportunity to target the weeks that you truly want and roll them with all four if you want them. Alioth came out with Snowguard, man. I don't even remember the other card what was the other card that he came out with? It was Snowguard and Hitmonkey? Yeah, that's a great week.
Which is by far the weakest of the bunch there. So, can you believe Snowguard was a reason to be excited for that cash, by the way?
Insane, insane. One of my favorite cards in the game. We talked about it last week. So if you don't have it, it's your own, it's your choice there. Because you elected to probably go for another week. Which you then have the advantage that week of x23 or whatever that might have been.
It really showcases how it's really valuable to have a forward facing plan with your tokens, with your spotlight caches, because ultimately when a card really lands like this, right, and you're patient and you see it play out in other decks and realize, hey, This is going to be relevant and it goes to show that like maybe being a little patient, seeing how a car plays out and then dropping that cash near the end of the week, even might be the best strategy for unlocking the best cards you can.
Yeah. And is the, is card acquisition perfect? It's not guys. It's not my argument here. I just think if you don't have, let's say well, there's some cars that need to come back around. That's a whole nother conversation. Like iron lad, like we should be seeing him again. There's some cars that are like so impactful. I wish we could see them again. But yeah, at that point definitely.
You listen to this, you still have a few hours, if you love Lockdown, and if you love Galactus, I would get this card. I wouldn't really hesitate. Although I know he's, I think he's coming in November as a spotlight. That will be your next chance to get him, if you want to go that route. Villains man, let's continue to talk about him. Galactus I think is one that people want to just focus on, and that's always the hot topic here.
One thing that I'll say is cool, and he's a tricky one, but one thing I'll say is cool about him, is the way that they have nerfed him back in May, I think? All it takes, essentially, is a PowerPoint adjustment at a time to see the impact. Of what happens. You take him down to six power, then anything with six power can beat him. You could keep doing that, right? I think that's the good news if Galactus were to get out of hand in the dev's opinion.
You know, we've discussed how Zabu was a really elegant nerf to the original Zabu, but Galactus itself has been a very Very elegant nerf to the original Galactus for that exact reason. You've given every single player in Marvel snap, a tool to deal with Galactus. That isn't necessarily a Cosmo or whatever. It's just power. It's doing what you were doing in the game anyways. And so yes, changing the power value drastically changes Galactus's viability.
And with OTAs, we know that that is the potential option here. But, at the same time, there's a reason why you mentioned Cosmo being slept on prior, because like, there are cards that deal with Galactus. It's not like a complete home run winner every time. It's just when you land that Galactus, Alioth is the home run banger every single time, right? So, I understand the frustration. It's a very polarizing card. It's a very polarizing card.
I get the frustration and I also get why people play it. Like, the day I, the, I had a day one deck. The night it came out, in the morning, it was there for the people, and it had a Galactus in there as a ramp style deck. It was fun, man. It's such a fun deck to play. You have all these different options. You have Black Panther, and then you can do Galactus. You can Odin on top of that. It's filthy. It's disgusting. It's a lot of fun to play. It's also devastating to go up against.
Having the Alive play, and then you know the Odin's gonna come too. It's like, God, this sucks. Galactus is tricky because it's never about, Can you beat him? It's like, should he be in his current state? Kind of like how Sandman was, in my opinion, when he was like a 5 5 or whatever that was. Was it beatable? Yes. Should it be there? Probably not. That's always the discussion. I'm nauseous about discussing it at this point. We'll have to see what the dev team thinks there.
But he's definitely one of those cards that I do think is a rightful villain. And there's some cards that don't deserve that tag. Like Shang Chi for eight months, right? Everyone thought Shang Chi was the worst card in existence, and now for some reason, everybody's good with him. For the most part. What other cards are in that role?
I mean, when you're talking about straight up villains, the next one we'd have to discuss briefly is, is wave. You have to, because waves at a 24 percent meta share at a 55 percent win rate. So now wave is winning more games than Galactus. It's making Galactus list naturally, but it's ability to be a immense tech card, an immense defensive weapon and immense offensive weapon. It just does so many different things. And this is without Mobius.
Isn't it funny though, how some cards are deemed villains faster than others, like a wave and doom. I still don't think people would look at those and be like, man, these are the villains of of Marvel Snap. I, I just don't see people saying that. As far as Loki though, Loki had a good two day run before he was like one of the most hated cards in the game. I would say if you were to poll the player base, Loki and Galactus would be the highest two polled villains of Marvel Snap.
Loki percent meta share and a 55 percent win rate was the next card. And, you know what though, I think there's... Okay. People want to play the new thing, right? Loki just came out. It is one of the most fun cards they've released in a very long time. I love the Loki play style. I think it's incredible. I think it's so much fun. And so naturally that had a, like people want to play that, but at a 55 percent win rate on aggregate, right?
There are some decks that will outperform, but on aggregate at 55 percent winner, it's not that meta oppressive. And that's why I wonder if they targeted collector, although collector didn't really need to hit that straight as we talked about before. But I actually wonder, do you think that they may be. Do you think they may be buff collector the week after Mobius comes out? Because Mobius is obviously going to eat Mobius sorry Loki's lunch. How many times have I said eating lunch today?
I said that maybe I'm hungry, but it has to be, it has to be in consideration that when Mobius comes out, that collector might get brought back up a couple of points, right? Because it's going to.
Yeah, I mean, I've been calling it a band aid for a reason. I do think it's temporary. Yeah, if I'm being honest. That's sometimes the purpose of OTAs. In a sense, right? They want to see how things fill out. And who knows, right? Maybe Shadow King's the only ti We don't know! We don't know! It's only Glenn and his master plan, right? At the end of it all. But Yeah, to me, it's so funny how, though, like, Wave, Doom, not a villain in most people's eyes.
But to me, it doesn't even matter if he's played. This guy will always be... This guy will always be a villain, right? I know I just pissed you off. Leech will always have the villain role attached to him.
Yeah, it's true. Actually, there's two guys I want to talk about. Leech was one of them where Leech is a 2 percent meta share, runs a 55 percent win rate. And every single time someone gets leeched, they take it to Twitter, man. Every single time, right? Like it's, they get so angry and I feel it. I get it. It's super frustrating, right? Unless you play a lot of Infinite like I do, and it's pretty sweet, but that's a whole other conversation. But yeah, Leech is infuriating. It is.
But it's at a 2 percent meta share, right? And I think it's really fascinating to think that like this card used to be so prevalent and its impact is still felt. I think it's still a very strong turn five play. Like it might even be, I don't want to say like, I wonder, like it is a really good turn five play, even though it's only three power because of how combo centric the current meta is. But there are some cards that just like are getting forgotten about now cozy.
I'm gonna bring something up to you There's a card that is not hated has never been hated Has almost never really been discussed as being overpowered and is one of the highest win rate cards in marvel snap It has a three percent meta share and it is one of it's a part of one of the most popular decks and popular archetypes That is sauron sauron.
I was gonna pro x that was my guess.
You're going to say pro X, but it's Sauron. If you think about it, Sauron gets absolutely no flack. No one ever talks about it. It's running a 58 current percent win rate. It is without question. One of the best cards in Marvel snap yet. No one, no one hates it. No one hates it. Is it because it's effect. Activates other cards and doesn't feel that bad.
Whereas Galactus, which has a 4 percent lower win rate, does all the boom and hand and I got you bro, like, GG's noob and all that stuff and the thumbs up from the emotes, right? Is it that side that pisses everyone off? Because Sauron is a way better card than Galactus is, but I don't see anyone talking about Sauron.
Yeah, it's for sure the effect. I mean, you just, you just nailed it where it's like, What is happening to the player? How does it make the player feel? Soren doesn't make the player feel anything, man. Like, they just, they get Ebony Mawed, Lizard, and Red Skulls, and then they lose. Like, it, I don't know. If you, it, Soren to me is like Reliable Discard in February. If you've been playing this since it came out, like, GG. I hope you enjoy your nine infinite card backs.
It's, it's always been so good. I feel like my metadeck report, I'm like, Sherry Soron, and everyone's like, Yeah, move on to the next one. It's like, But wait! It's cracked! Like, it's so good! But yeah, man It's Sher Like, people try to get fancy. I think we're Sherry less, and I think it's cool you can. But at the end of the day, Soron Sherry's insane.
The way you said that was so funny, I, like, anybody listening to the audio didn't see me, I could barely breathe, I was laughing so hard, the way you delivered that, you just get Lizard, Ebony Maw, and Red Skull, and then lose, it's true though, that's exactly what happens, and no one thinks, oh, this is Sauron doing this, no one thinks about Sauron, and it's impact it's having, the turn 6 Ebony Maw, no one pays attention to it, Anyways, because you actually got me there. That was hilarious.
Absolutely fantastic. I think this is a good, okay, we should transition here. Going, talking about like Sauron being an absolutely fantastic card. And yes, there's a lot of new villains out there. One of the villains was Loki. And I think it's notable to say here that Loki is a season pass card that came in a little hot. Albeit hotter than a lot of people expected, right?
I had... I remember hearing some pretty notable names saying like Loki was going to be like a 40 percent win rate card and to pass on the season pass and stuff. And we were, we were obviously a little hotter than that, but I didn't expect it to be like a 60 percent win rate deck. I did not see that. I think we recognized that it was going to be fun. It was going to be good. But like to actually land as powerful as it did, I think caught, I know it caught me by surprise. Cozy, what about you?
I mean, so, and because I love the play style, I had it where I had like, I thought it was going to be a meta competing card. I did, I had, no one, no one could sit here and say they thought it was going to be the best card in the game. Like, or like at least the best deck. Which I do think is Loki. I think Loki is the best deck. It's what the best players are playing. Because you take what they're doing and you do it better.
You can be very strategic about how you play it against other matchups. He's one of the most rewarding. We did say this when he came out. If you know other people's decks, he is so rewarding for top levels of play. Because you know when to play him. You know when you can hold on to him, when you need to play him early. When you just play him to get the collector bonus on the last turn of the game. There's a lot of ways to play Loki. And we just finished ranking every season pass card.
And it was cool to see that bell curve, right? It was cool to see where they've done it. And to be honest, outside of the whiffs, like, again, we've talked about this, and it's kind of like Tom Fullery now, looking back at some of these tweets that were just calling Snap a gotcha game, because it's like, give it time to breathe.
The fact is, with Loki though, you look back, I think Zabu, Surfer was crazy, to me Zabu was the most like, what, what is happening, right out of the new year, like, just completely transformed Snap, where it was at in it's metagame base at the moment. Loki took the longest to adjust to, almost with Zabu. These two cards dramatically changed decks and how they played, and how the meta played out. And so it took a lot to digest it. Do I want all season pass cards that good?
Hell no. Do I mind one sprinkled in as long as it's been between Zabu, Hitmonkey, and Loki? Probably, I think that's, that's kind of fun, that's kind of cool. I'd rather them be on that side of things. On a 1 through 10, how good should season pass cards be, Alex?
I think they should be, like, well, what's 5? What's 5? Like, tell me what the baseline is.
5 is not, not Miles Morales. Let's say 5 is, what's like, middle of the pack that we said earlier? Like a Black Panther?
Black, Black Panther's 5, I'd say Black Panther's like a 7. Let's say 7, you want it to be a playable card. Let's say Black Panther's the median, we're saying Black Panther's the, the line. It should be a little better than Black Panther. I think that... The reason why I say that is, listen, okay, we had Nimrod come out, okay? We had Nick Fury. You know what those cards did to the meta? Nothing. They did absolutely nothing.
And then you know what the, the threads on Reddit and then Twitter and all that, you know what they were complaining about? Stale meta. This game's dying. There's nothing happening. Everyone's bored. And then you get a card like Loki, that shakes up everything, shakes it like crazy. And then it's like, well, now it's overpowered. So there's going to be this middle ground.
I would rather, and the reason why this topic exists is because I think there's value in letting the season pass cards lean good, and let them tune them back. Because if you think about what happened to Phoenix Force, here's a great example. Phoenix Force comes out, sucks. It's not, it doesn't suck, but it's way too combo centric, it doesn't feel rewarding, it's just, it's not the card. No one buys the season pass, right?
Which is a whole, that's a whole other conversation financially for the company, whatever. I'm not, I don't care about that. I care about the meta. I care about the game. I care about the experience. Okay. I'm just saying that right off the, I don't care about the money side. I care about the experience. The experience that month sucked because the season pass card sucked. The weekend mission sucked. Everything felt bad that had anything to do with Phoenix Force, okay?
Loki's not gonna have that problem. Players who are playing Marvel Snap right now are feeling more motivated to play Marvel Snap. Whether it's to play Loki, counter Loki, or whether it's waiting for Mobius to come out. Which, I mean, there is an answer to Loki. Phoenix Force had none of that. Phoenix Force was just a dead bird in the water. Forget about rising from the ashes. Just sprinkle a little hose water on it because the card sucked. There was no point.
It had to get buffed almost immediately. Is that really what we want?
You know, I was thinking about this, and I don't know if it's good or bad type of thing, I think bottom line, I want season pass cards to be fun. And, and fun does typically mean good, like Phoenix Force is a fun card, but it sucks, you have to have that balance, right? Because if you think about it, even Nebula's season pass fell flat. If you think back to it, and Nebula's a great card, I, I can recall a couple of content creators I talked to that was like, I, I, I'm not crazy about Nebula.
I didn't do anything to shake up anything. I think season pass cards usually are fun. Hitmonkey, Zabu, Silver Surfer Loki, all these are fun. I think Modok, to an extent, is pretty damn fun. Nimrod became fun, but it took some time. Black Panther, fun. Miles, kind of fun too, right? Like, if you look back, fun cards. Good in Nebula. Good in some of these cases. Dawken, good. It, it just, it, it doesn't inspire this change and all this craziness.
There needs to be an answer, in a sense, for free to play players, that needs to be important, if you were to look at it in those lens. Or second dinner. I would love for them to introduce some type of man I don't know you give up a whole week of season cash is to get the season pastor free I don't know right something that's not deliberate money in the long run maybe but Good and bad.
I think yes, they need to be Good like a seven, but I think fun is is where it matters and it's the combination of both, right? Does that make sense?
It does make sense and loki is definitely fun, right?
It's just it's I guess it's hard it's hard to find that balance and the other thing that I think we're noting here is that like Once the entire community gets their hands on a card and starts deck building and crafting like there's there's going to be you know variables that the development team just can't account for right and like think about this for a second too and i'm not trying to be defensive to second dinner, but Like, how hard is it to evaluate the performance of a card in advance?
Like, we're looking at Legion. Everyone thought Legion was a complete joke, and then it had to get nerfed because it was overpowered. Like, it was unbelievable. It's one of the best cards released in, in, like, recent memory, right? It's hard. Until it gets into everyone's hands, you don't really know how a card's truly going to perform, right? So I'd rather them lean. A little exciting, especially since we know they have the, the structure set up for OTAs patches.
Like there are many opportunities to buff and change these cards.
And with season passes, they have to be more careful because buffing and changing those cards is actual spent money, right? We're like deliberate. And so it's, it's to be tough. But I think like stature is one of the best examples before stature got out to everybody. She was like, Oh, cool. Discounts are nice. That was kind of it. And then we had that black bolt stature dilemma for like two months, right? So like that, that's a clear cut example when masses get it.
Season pass cards are different because everybody can get it. Immediately, we're finding out how it's busted pretty quickly, right? Because the player base is so large at medium. But yeah, I think they've done a good job. I think they've done a really good job. Again, I saw examples brought up. And I try to be nice, dude, but I've seen examples, just they're poor takes. They're just for clicks or something. Of like, And how many times are chasing money for season pass cards?
Like, they've done good. I think they've done good in the past. They've shown good in the future, even in the next season pass card. Which I don't think it's gonna be. I think the next season pass card is one that they looked like they adjusted since the data mine because it didn't look that fun. And then they kind of gave it this new fun factor. And we can talk about that at a later time. Ultimately, fun, good, mix of both, not too paid to play is important.
And that's what I have to say on that.
Yeah. And I absolutely agree. And one thing I will say is I actually agree with you and I disagree with the takes that like, Oh, the season pass cards are being over, over performing in order to sell more season passes. I think that's kind of like a, like a pitchfork approach to what is, I think a pretty balanced scenario because I used to play a game, I used to play heroes of the storm and they legit used to release new heroes, completely over tuned to the tune of like 75 percent win rates.
So that they could like sell it, which they would sell for real money. And then, Oh, we're going to nerf. And then the nerf would be like massive, like a disgusting nerf. Like not like, Oh, one power to like, Oh, the cards just now it's normal. Now it's a 52 percent win rate hero. Like I've played games that did that. And this is not that.
And everyone out there has played games that have like prayed on season pass or prayed on, you know, pay to pay for power, I think is the term we've talked about in the past. Not happening here. I don't think it is.
So many games, so many games. And at the end of the day, I saw, I got a comment on one of my videos, like you know, Alex and Cozy, you're not critical in the game unless they need to be. And I was like, well, what does that even mean? Like, do we, do I need to just be mad at the game to be mad at the game? I, I don't really funny enough, one thing, contrary to popular belief, actually, negativity sells. So me being pissed off at second dinner would actually... Do the opposite of what you think.
It would give me more views, more ads, whatever, right? Yeah, like, it's, it's, the, the delusion there is funny. And Second Dinner, guys, they've given full, it's hot, they don't care how pissed we are about anything. They don't. They want the honest truth behind it. At the end of the day, we don't Dude, I'm a gamer. I don't want this game to be stale and suck. I was I was lenient on Loki.
A, I liked him, and B, I still think people were just complaining to complain, and had to give it a little time. If there's something that feels like just complete crap, like, dude, I'm gonna continue to complain about it until it's addressed, right? Like, I think that's one thing that I hope people realize that we've held our standards by, that it's important for us to have a game that's healthy. And they've done a good job. They've done a good job having healthiness.
They they shot themselves in the foot by just having a mobile game to begin with that isn't, that's PC2 and how it works with the publishers and all that I'm sure. Because you're never going to have people happy. But bottom line, I'm not mad about how Season Pass has been handled thus far. I think they're doing a pretty good job. Let's go ahead and get to our last subject today. Most underrated cards at every cost. I thought this was fun.
Instead of doing favorite cards at every cost, we have the most underrated. And this should be a pretty solid conversation altogether. And I'm, I'm going to kick us off because I already went on this tangent on my side.
And if you listened to the podcast earlier in the podcast about why I think this card is underrated Spider Ham is my is going to be my candidate for the most underrated 1 cost card because it's brand new to being 1 cost, and I think people are remembering the bad 2 cost Spider Ham. This is my number one underrated 1 cost at the moment.
It really surprises me. It really surprised me that that, like, you're calling Spider Ham and maybe I have to try more. Maybe I'm falling asleep on Spider Ham a little bit, but like, it's just, again, the recollection of what it was and what it is now, but, I mean, you can sneak into more lists. Do you see this getting to a 1 2 or do you think it just stays as a 1 1?
Nope, I think this is exactly where he's gonna stay. I think this is, I think this is, this is, there's no way I think he's a 1 2, actually. I think he's gonna be a 1 1. And that'll be that.
Can we be honest with ourselves? Do you like the variant more than you like the card?
I do like the variant a lot. I mean, come on, man. It's, it's a pretty, all of his variants are so good. Like every single one. I like them all. They're all, they're all a lot of fun, but he's my number one underrated. Obviously I've brought up Echo in the past, who I still think is underrated, but who is yours?
You know what, I'm going to call back a card that I think is being completely dis disrespected, and that is Nova. Nova has been cut from so many lists, and I get it, X23 comes out, Nova gets cut, but, like, let's not forget what Nova does. Is there, is it hard to say that, like, Nova's often a 1 6? Like one, seven, how much value does this car generate for, for your board state? It's incredible. I think.
And I think that like overall, I'm not saying that cutting Nova out of some of the destroy decks is wrong. I'm just saying that I think this card has now fallen into underrated territory. We're forgetting that this used to be one of the best cards in the game. It legitimately used to be, and now we have X 23 and X 23 is new. It's sexy and it does look really cool thing, but I think that Nova is still really good.
You think he'll be a one, two ever again?
No, I don't think it, I don't think it'll ever hit one, two again. I think that it'll never give plus two power. We know that for sure. It just might be a situation where like Nova is just what it is. And maybe we're going to have a opportunities that we're not aware of. New cards come out that activate it in a different level, but. I still like Nova a lot. I think it's underrated at one cost right now. Who's your two cost? I'm going in spicy. I'm going in spicy.
If you thought Nova was a hot take, you get ready for this. So, I have been playing a lot of High Evolutionary the last couple weeks. And when Alioth came out, it was shocker.
For me, that stood out as a card that everyone's sleeping on because Shocker allows you to do things with a deck that can be as top heavy as High Evolutionary, like, listen, you have Dr. Doom in that deck, you have Hulk naturally, you have a Lieth, which I'm adding in there and having one of those as a five cost is chef's kiss. It's absolutely incredible. Borderline win condition, definite snap condition. So I think that shocker is being kind of underappreciated. And even if you hit a Cyclops.
It's just a Cyclops you can play and guarantee that you're floating energy. Like, it just does so much. Like, I think that like, honestly, Cyclops on three as a two cost and he, he laser beams. That is good. That is good. So like, I have been enjoying Shocker and I think he's being cut from a ton of EVO lists. But I'm adding him in and I'm loving it.
I love the call. He has great animations. I love the call though. I do. I love the call. I mean, again, cost reduction. I'm gonna give you a a crap sandwich as they say. Love the call. I think this is a great pick. Especially for a high EVO. The flip side is like, I love how you hate Spider Ham, who is random on what card it hits, and it helps you some games and doesn't others. Shocker's like the same thing to me, right?
Like, if it hits your freakin Nebula, or your, there's a few cards in there, they like, cool, right? But, that's just kind of Alex coaching for you, but dude, I love the pick, actually. I think this was a great pick for High Evo. Because especially, man, like the She Hulk. Hitting She Hulk and then you can full float and then play for free. And then play whatever you want. It is so underrated. Good pick there, buddy. Good pick. And I'm glad it wasn't Sentinel.
Because I thought for sure you were going the Sentinel route.
How many times can I bring up Sentinel though? Like, by the way, still super high win rate overall. I went through Sentinel stats before.
My, my two costs, I can't believe, and maybe I'll get crapped for this. I can't believe I have to put him as an underrated card, because I'm just looking at the pure list and play rate of him. And I brought him back because of the how much Luke Cage is back, right, and the Sarah control. Lizard is just not getting the play that the man deserves. I, I, it's crazy to me. He did get a pretty damn bad, like, the negative four is so shocking here.
But he's got the nebula effect, kind of, to force people to play lanes. Having him down with 2 5, it's all about priority, man, and having that 2 5 is the biggest priority you can get pretty much out the gate. Luke Cage is an automatic, spicy, just, chef's kiss. I don't know why, there are certainly sexier flavors. Of two cost cards, but when it comes to stats and priority, this man slept on.
Yeah, and I often lean towards adding him in decks with Enchantress. Because if they are not playing ongoing, it's just a very nice synergy between the two cards. And like, it's just straight up 10 power they can't contend with, right? Like it's, it's huge. And I think that like right now, I think it was hurt by the meta because you had the, the, the boosted brood style decks, which were filling the board state so much. But honestly, right now, I think Lizard's absolutely fine.
And I, and it's funny cause like when he got originally nerfed to the negative four, I remember the developer note still saying, this is probably the least consequential nerf we've ever done. And I'm like, we were both like, no way, man. Like the mindset of the people is going to hate this car now. And the car went train wreck. Right? Completely off the map. So, I love the call there, and If you don't mind, I'm going to go to number three.
Now, I know you hate when I do this, so I'm not going to do it. I had two cards picked for three. But, it's a bit of a cheat, because we already talked about Sauron earlier. That was my original one. So, I have a backup. I have a backup. Sauron was my first love here. Okay. But, I want to talk about Polaris for a second. Because, I feel like in the world of Galactus, You know, you have a card that's a 3 5. You're able to pull a card into the, which is obviously it's going to be Nebula.
Galactus players are playing Nebula for that, like control element, right? They're going to play Nebula. They're going to play their two jobs. They're going to play Electro. You just pull over here, over here. Thank you. Not Galactus doesn't do nothing. I still have five power. It's a good card. And I think it's a, it's a pretty decent card that's being slept on overall. Polaris's effect can also be very useful against like anyone playing invisible woman. So I'm seeing a lot more Hela out there.
I'm seeing a lot more tribunal. And when they set up their Invisible Woman, their tribunal, whatever, you just drag a card in there like, Hey, you know that whatever card you played before, well now you can't play on top of the Invisible Woman because now the, the location's completely blocked. Yeah. Right? I love it. I really think that Polaris is being underappreciated, but I get why. It's not as sexy as some of the newer cards. Still good.
I like the pick I used her the other day to pull an Angela that they built up the whole game into a lane that I was already like done with, you know? And it's like, even just that play is like, I took a 10 power card into a lane. They didn't need it in. And like, it's little interactions like that that could feel good. And yeah, to your point, great Galactus counter, good to use in these movement style decks. It's a good card to talk about.
And it's kind of weird that we were talking about her as a slept on card at this point, right? Like just wild. I've got Juggernaut. I was looking at all the three costs, there's a lot in there, there's plenty I could talk about. I, I don't know, man. I just, I'm perplexed why Juggernaut is always at the play rate that he's at.
I, I think he's such a good control counter in many's of ways, and especially because of Pro X and guaranteeing the lockdown sometimes, and knowing where Jug's gonna push the card. Not having to worry about Alioth. Not having to worry about, like, Juggernaut for a 3 3, as a late play. As any play, like any time period, people are playing their cards on locations that they want to play them on.
Not that they don't want to play them on, and so he's always going to get the value of disruption the later you play him. And I think that there's something to be said about that. I love him. I do love Juggernaut, and I'm going to put him as my current kind of disrespected card. The month Alex going into forecast
or cost is where I'm adding enchantress in preparation for the upcoming season because enchantress is a card that I feel like a lot of people just don't want to play. I don't know why it's play rates pretty low as we get into Mobius season and with Luke Cage being as prevalent as it is and like it becomes a much notable tech card. I think what happens. We're not seeing the Dark Hawk style decks as often as we traditionally have.
So when Dark Hawk kind of falls off, I feel like enchantress falls off. Pretty easily, you're also seeing Zabu fall off a little bit. So the, you're the three costs Enchantress on turn six, isn't really happening. So Enchantress is falling off quite a bit from a Metashare perspective. I still think it's a damn good card. It's not what it was when it was four, six, but I think Enchantress is best days are ahead of her.
Yeah. So I had Enchantress as well. Like what, like, of course, definitely, definitely, definitely should be on the most slept on at the moment and it's wild how tech cards work with popularity. If I was going to pick another. I kind of think White Queen is just this cool card that's always had good value. She gives you intel. Playing her with Quinjet's cool, man, because you get the discount on that. You can see if they've got Alioth. You can see if they've got Doctor Doom.
You're going to say something about the variant, okay? It's hot, man. What is it? But, right, isn't white queen kind of underappreciated?
I'm laughing because you used the word cool twice while putting up this white queen that's like basking in the sun Then you called her hot. Come on, Cozy, I see what you're doing there You're like, you're on another level with your puns, eh?
Like you don't even realize you're doing it anymore You're just, you're just so accustomed to throwing out absences Include fire puns that these cards, white queen is good, especially in a game where like Goliath is a factor and Galactus is a factor and it is four six, which is honestly a pretty impressive style line. I like the call.
I just cut my hair, cut the other day and man, I, I said, my first dad joke that like, you know, amongst, I got their dads at the, they're like, ha, right. I had this like, young great girl cut my hair and I was like, she was like, man, your hair is very thick and long. And I was like, yeah, I water it daily and, and she just, Just stared at me, and I was like, oh my god, it's happening. Like, I'm saying, I'm saying dad jokes, and I'm finding them hilarious. But, but they're probably not.
What do I do about that?
You keep telling dad jokes. That's the only thing you can do. You just accept it. That's their problem, not yours.
That's what I thought. Okay, I'm glad to know, man. Five cost cards, Alex! What do you got for five, man? I think there's, they're all pretty damn good, so it can be tough to pick one. Underrated 5 cost.
I don't want to keep saying like, this is the spicy one, but like, you're gonna laugh. You're just gonna, okay, you're gonna roast me here, cause it's, it's all, it's following a bit of a theme. I'm going with, it's not Rona, it's not Rona, it's Abomination. Hear me out, it's Abomination, okay? So I've been playing with some value patriot lists. Yeah. Okay. I've been playing with some value. Patriot lists where I'm sliding abomination back in and he's still good.
And I think he's only gonna get better with Ravonna actually, when you can slide in some more value with the Patriot Mystique. But what I will say is, would you believe I've been playing a lot of high Evo and people still aren't using one of the best tech cards in the game right now, which is Luke Cage. So I've been playing this toxic Evo when I'm not playing the Alioth Evo and I'm playing these abominations for free on turn six with, with Hulks. Very consistently.
I will add very consistently because I'm playing hazmat as a tempo card, like on turn four or whatever turn three and you're like there abominations of 2 1 0 cost card. It's disgusting sometimes. And so abomination as a whole, yes it takes some work, but it can be a zero nine dropping on the board. Like it is crazy and you gotta work for it. But I do think abomination in both patriot. And in Toxic Evo is way better than people are giving it credit for.
Fully, fully agree, buddy. I'm gonna go, and again, we can tell we've both been playing like Control Stylus. I'm gonna go Claw. Back to Claw. He was kind of like always in our underrated stuff, and he fell off for a while because then he was like properly rated. Then he was being played a lot in this Thanos stuff, but they killed that with the Soulstone nerf. Claw is your answer to getting sick and annoyed of these dumbass, Pro X, Jeff Cyclops, Storms, all that going on.
Claw just answers that with the exact correct amount of power that he needs. Even if somebody is gonna play Pro X and Jeff and you somehow play nothing there, you can still tie that power. Like, it's, it is the card that answers that. I'll be it. It's almost like I kind of sometimes wish it was a 4 cost that did less power in the lane. Like, I think that'd be kind of interesting in how it could work. Maybe like a 4 4? Maybe a 4 5? Maybe 4 5? I don't know.
But all together actually make them like a 4 3 that gives 5 power. I kind of like that. Eh, I don't know. That doesn't feel right either. I don't know the solution! I just think Claw is underrated at the moment, and properly is not being played to the level that he should be.
I think it could be a 5 5. Honestly, I don't think 5 5 ruins the game.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, just keeping the same cost, but it increases cost? I agree. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a good point there. Because you're spreading it into two lanes, especially, man, Miss Marvel, the way she's gonna work. We'll get to that another day. Six costs to end the our last subject buddy. This was the toughest cost because they are all, they're six costs get in play right now. They're almost all getting some share. What do you got?
For me? This is where I talk about Hella. Okay. Hella is no longer the casino card. I think Hella has a bad rap cozy. I think it does. I think people are like, Oh, hell is what you play when you want to meme and Hella doesn't actually win games. It's all RNG. But like the new Hella deck, specifically the Hella tribunal list, they're getting tight.
They're pretty good with the change to magic and obviously the use of invisible woman and the the decrease in use of Cosmo Okay, and the nerf to to legion Which is obviously hurt its meta share and you get these magic limbo games where you can play tribunal pretty confidently with hella I think the card is kind of awakened. It's no longer a total meme I think people are sleeping on how reliable hella can actually be you have iron lad now Which can reach into the deck.
If you don't draw it, like you have these tools that traditional Helen never used to have. And now you have, it's pretty good.
I spoke on consistent Hella to start the podcast, buddy. I mean, it's, I love it. I love it. I think this car consistent Hella is the deck and that's why I had her as mine. So you know there's another tough one to talk about if I were to pivot and say another one, then Hella. Because I love to take here and I fully agree to not just play greedy Hella. It's weird, I, dude, I kind of think Odin. I, for whatever reason, I feel like Odin's just underappreciated.
I was running Odin in some wacky list, man, but having Odin even with like Loki to trigger him again, or like, there's, Being able to get their on reveal effect twice has just been so clutch in so many situations. He's the card for the for Conquest, the variant there, and I think he's just gonna work across these decks. Like on reveal, maybe with Ravonna again. So that would be my like secondary pick, but I do agree. I like Hella as the consistent pick, bud.
Always fun doing these underrated at each cost. Yeah.
Yeah. I love having card conversations and actually we've been kind of like on similar wavelengths the last couple of weeks. Remember with the discard top 10 was absolutely insane. It's like we were reading each other's minds and now we take two of each other's list. That's actually pretty crazy of all the cards we could have picked, right? We're, we're kind of matching cards and I mean, what can I say, cozy. The the podcast we do together.
It's by far the highlight of my week and I hope that you guys agree as well. Thank you so much for joining us. It's been an absolutely wild ride. And the thing I love about Marvel Snap Cozy is guess what? Next week we'll have just as much to talk about. 'cause things are always changing. It's always exciting in the world of Marvel Snap.
Guys, I want to thank you for listening to another episode of the Snapchat as we come up on a year of recording the series. And as always guys, thanks for listening and until the next one happy snapping.