From Idea to 6-Figure Side Hustle (Greatest Hits)

Here's an oldie but a goodie from the archives from the Side Hustle Show Greatest Hits Collection. Plus, stick around for the time travel segment At the end, when we check in with present-day Anthony to get his update on everything that's happened since this 2021 original.

What's up, what's up, Nick Loper here. Welcome to the Side Hustle Show because your 9 to 5 may make you a living, but your 5 to 9 makes you alive. In this episode, you'll meet Anthony and Janilka Hartzog who were on a mission to erase six figures of debt, which they ended up doing in under two years. They were making good money at their day jobs. They're following the Dave Ramsey debt snowball plan. But they came to this realization, like many listeners of the show do,

There's only so much you can cut from your budget. That's when they turned to the income side of the equation and started a ton of different side hustles. They picked up second jobs at their gym. They were renting out their car on Turo. They were dog sitting. And inspired by my episode with Chris Schwab, 295, they started a residential. cleaning business called maidstomatch.com. Today, that business is doing 20 to 25 grand a month in sales.

with other people doing the cleaning. Anthony and Chinooko are fully in business owner mode, dedicating just a few hours a week to it. Stick around in this one to hear how they got it done while working full time, including how they connect with reliable cleaners and the marketing tactics that are paying off.

You can follow along with their journey at TheHartramony on Instagram, H-A-R-T, and you'll find the full text summary of this episode along with the links and resources mentioned at SideHustleNation.com. clean to clean and then the number two while you're there make sure to download the free list of 101 service business ideas

that you might be able to apply Anthony Ingenioca's strategy to. Once again, that's at SideHustleNation.com slash clean2 or through the link in the episode description of your podcast player app. I'll be back with my top takeaways after the interview. Ready?

across one-year interviews where it was a kid, a guy that was making $10,000 a month in cleaning, but the caveat was he wasn't cleaning houses himself. That was a big caveat. I brought the idea to my esteemed wife and I said, no. At that time, at first I thought he meant that we were going to be cleaning and he explained no, but at that time we had never run a business before. So it was just kind of left field. It's like, well, how do we do this? How do we know where to start?

He's like, I'm telling you, I listen to this podcast. And he's been doing it. So it kind of was a no. And then he brought it back maybe two, three months after with more results, more information that he gained. And that was the kickstart for us. All right, so this is Chris Schwab, you know, from Thinkmaids. It's like, if he can do this, you know, while he's still in college, like, we ought to be able to figure this out.

After convincing Janilka, what was the next step to make this thing a reality? Before she even came back around and quote-unquote me convincing her, the idea had to be planted first. That was a big part of it. Plant the idea, plant the seed, and then...

We'll revisit it over the next couple of weeks. So I spoke to Chris and he explained some of the basics. I did a lot of Googling, a lot of researching, and it was like, listen, we can do this. We're not going to have to clean. Here's how we're going to do it. Are we going to hire contractors? It's going to be similar to like Handy.com or Airbnb or even Uber.

We're not going to deliver food. We're not going to have hotels. It's going to be us connecting cleaners with people who want their houses cleaned. Yeah, it's an interesting one because taking advantage of... the current state of the business where a lot of these existing operators in the cleaning space and in really a lot of local service businesses

They don't have a great online presence. They kind of rely just on the clients they've always had. It may be a little bit of word of mouth, but they're not doing a lot of proactive marketing stuff in the digital age. And so you're saying, okay, we can come in here and present a well-thought-out brand, which you've done at madestomatch.com, and then go out and find... cleaners for that. So was it a matter of trying to book the jobs first or try and find cleaners first?

Oh, that's our number one question. The chicken, which comes first, the chicken or the egg? We always say that we get the contractors first because we don't want to do the clean. So if you start booking the jobs and they come in,

Unless you're able to go out there and do the clean, you need to have the contractors. And I know sometimes people are saying, well, I don't have enough work for contractors, so why would I continue to bring them on? But as a contractor, they have other jobs. They're not just relying on you. So that's okay for them to just be waiting, you know, maybe a week or two to get jobs from you. But we definitely say get the contractors unless you are comfortable going to clean the home yourself.

And we tell all of our students that because it's important to know what you're going to do first because a lot of them get stuck on that. what comes first part of it. And if we tell you what should come first, you should just go and do that. We try to make it as simple as possible when we're talking about this business structure, not only for us to learn it, but also for our students as well.

What was that process like for you guys to find those cleaners? That's why I'm part of the business. People. Finding people to this day, when people always act as we would say, always be hiring. We're always marketing the same way we market for our cleaning business. We market for contractors as well. Because, you know, as a contractor, they have the flexibility of one day saying, yeah, I don't want to work anymore or moving or whatever the case may be.

So if we want to continue to grow, we need to continue to market to them. So that is an ongoing process for us. And we try to market in various different ways. So we do, we talk about free marketing versus paid marketing. A lot of free places where you can find people are Facebook groups, believe it or not. A lot of people are looking for jobs on Facebook. Craigslist, a lot of cleaners.

When you're talking about looking for contractors, looking for cleaners, they're still marketing in places like that to find cleaning jobs. So if they're still on Craigslist looking for jobs, they'd be on Craigslist looking for work as well. Nextdoor.com is another big place we look for cleaners on the free side of things.

But paid, I'm looking for people on Yelp, Thumbtack, also Indeed, ZipRecruiter. So we teach people different ways to kind of find the cleaners, but there's numerous ways to find them.

Let's say you find somebody through a Nextdoor, through a Craigslist, what's the pitch to them is it just we'd love to add you to our roster we're a new cleaning business if you have any availability in your calendar we'd love to be able to try and help you fill that like what's that conversation like we basically let them know like what we can provide for them why would you work with us basically for them

and how frequently we pay, how much we pay, all those type of things we go over with them in the process before we continue on with the interview process. So yeah, we do pitch the services in that way. It varies. Some people have done it before. They know the platform. They know how it works. So they're totally understanding. Some people feel like it's too good to be true.

And so they're like, huh? Like, so I just get this amount. So we basically say, like, you do the job well. We handle everything else. We handle the marketing. We have everything else. You just got to show up, do the clean. And that's it.

You don't have to worry about the pricing. You don't have to worry about the customer service. You don't have to worry about rescheduling. We had to... We handle all those things that they're usually not good at. And most cleaning technicians are good at cleaning. So most people in the local service business is really good at cleaning. Right. Talk to me about the pricing conversation because this is, I mean, you got to make money on the spread if they're used to charging.

know 80 bucks to do this job and you're gonna charge the customer 80 bucks there's no margin left over tell me about how that piece of the puzzle work Okay, so when it comes to pricing, we're very upfront about that. Our cleaners get 60%, we get 40%. and they're able to see right away how much they'll get paid for a job when they're accepting it. We also encourage them to go onto our website so they can see how much we are charging clients.

but also it's a partnership. So if they are somewhere and they feel like, hey, the client should be charged a bit more, they kind of communicate that to us as well. So that's an ongoing conversation, but we're very upfront about the pricing and we're priced a bit higher. so that the split does make sense And we also ask them when we start working with them, how much do they charge their clients so we can get an idea of, okay.

Once we split this, does it make sense? Is it too high? Is it too low to kind of go from there? And it also makes sense for our clients as well because we always get the conversation as to, oh, I had a private cleaner and it was a lot cheaper than you guys. Why are you guys more expensive? But there's a reason why you're talking to us, why you're having a conversation with us because either

Your previous cleanup wasn't good enough for you. What happens more likely is that they cancel. And now you're stranded and you need somebody last minute. But if someone cancels on us, we have an entire team that we could get out to you versus just having one person. Okay. Is there a target hourly rate that you've found cleaners are happy with?

Yeah, what we say is the rate kind of breaks down to even with the 60%, it ranges from about $25 to $35 an hour. But honestly, it's usually probably $30 plus. Yeah, usually depending on how fast they clean or how good they are, how many jobs they were to take.

Do they have a team so they can take bigger homes? All those things varies, but I would say it's usually no less than $30 an hour. Okay. And do you guys have it where it's somewhat fixed pricing like hey if you got a two-bedroom place it's this if you have a three-bedroom place it's this yes we have a flat rate um but obviously if you add on things if it's a deep clean or if you're looking for a move in move out where we're doing inside fridge and oven

Square footage does come into place when it's like 2,500 square feet and higher. So those type of things, but mostly it is the flat rate, which you see there is what you're going to pay. And that works out for our clients as well, because they don't feel like if you're doing the hourly rate, they may feel like we're trying to milk the clock, but also it helps us with our cleaners as well.

So we don't have to worry about them or anyone attempting to milk the clock while they're cleaning as well. So our clients know once we get there, that's the price. And our cleaners know once you get there, that's the price that you're going to make. So if you finish it really well and you do the job well, that's what you're getting paid. If you want to take your time, that's totally fine because you're getting paid the same rate. The owner's going to pay the same rate as well.

And you ever roll up to a house or have one of your cleaners roll up to the house and be like, no way. There's no way I'm getting out of here and making any sort of money. This is going to take days. We have a very open relationship. So if they get somewhere and it's more than what they, like what the client had put on the booking form, because all these homes are sight unseen. All of our clients are booking us online. Yeah.

So we go by their word, but we tell our contractors, you're our eyes and ears. If you get there and it's not what it says, We need to know. So we've had that happen and we have them send us pictures and we have the conversation with the client of like, you know, this is more than what was said. You know, this is what the price will be. Yes or no. And that's how we proceed. And even with that flat rate pricing, we have an asterisk that says this is for the average house that's normally.

cleaned up on a periodic basis. So if we get to the home, we have the right to give you a new pricing based on the conditions that we see. And you have the right to decline the service at that time, which is totally fine. But that's why we tell them as soon as we get there.

so that it's not like we're cleaning and then four hours in they're like yeah no i don't want you to i don't want to pay that so you're kind of building this informal Rolodex of cleaners who have agreed to open up their schedule or be open to extra bookings.

at this price split. And then you go about the marketing stuff for the clients. Tell me about that. Tell me about how you guys found your first bookings. Oh, yeah. So our first booking was from Thumbtack. Yeah. And we got them on Thanksgiving Day. On the day after. On the day after Thanksgiving, by Friday, we were with family. And one thing about Thumbtack, it's very hands-on. You have to have, you have to nurture the client multiple times.

And we tell our students very early on get as many reviews as you can try to do free cleanings for family and friends So that by the time you start paying for marketing, you already have some initial reviews there. On Thumbtack, you got to nurture the client. You got to massage the conversation. And then also early on, we priced ourselves a little bit lower so that we can start getting bookings on those platforms as well. First booking came in on Black Friday.

and uh we had a contractor ready for the job night before she said she can't make it of course why wouldn't why would the first thing be easy yeah so we went into like a group out here in Dallas that has cleaners and we said hey we need assistance can anybody take this job tomorrow morning and we found someone who ended up working with us as a contractor who was able to go to the job and she did a great job this first job actually had a farm in their backyard yeah which was just like

What? She was like, yeah, they have like pigs back there and like four or five dogs. So the place is very hairy. Well, she said a pig sty. It was like, oh, it's dirty. Literally, it's a pig sty. I was like, what?

but she got the job done and and and that's how that first job went but we've had other jobs at the beginning that i like somebody it was a married couple they got into an argument somebody left somebody on the side of the road we actually went and did that one luckily that was kind of just a quick They were just taking pictures. So we just have to kind of like wipe down and sweep them off. So we got that client from next door too. Right. So those were, we've in our total, we've.

We've done about 2,700 bookings and we've cleaned three homes ourselves. Yeah. And that was way at the beginning. At this point, if someone can't make it, we would just reschedule. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Versus early on to say like, all right, well,

I can't find anybody to get it done, so I'm going to go and roll up my sleeves and do it myself. Yeah, we did those three bookings on one weekend, and then we was like, uh-uh. Because early on, you're very nervous about your reputation and the reviews you're going to get.

So you want to be mindful of that early on. But now, you know, worse, we've gotten negative reviews. Most of our reviews are five-star reviews. We get a one or three-star here and there, which we understand. People like to threaten you with reviews, we realize. So we're at the point where we're not going to be threatened or bullied because you wanted a specific thing that we weren't able to accommodate. But we try to live by the business model that customers are always right.

unless they're wrong and we're trying to convey that in the nicest way possible so So Thumbtack is kind of a pay to bid type of platform, right? So somebody will come on and say, I need a cleaner for... this date, and then you will say, okay, I want to bid on this job. Yeah, and thumbs up you pay based on the qualifications of the league.

If they want a larger home and they want it to be a recurring booking, Thumbtack is going to make you pay more. And their mindset is that you're going to pay more for this booking because you're going to make more money if you do book the service. But also now you have that contact information if they actually do book reoccurring services. It kind of gets pricey pretty quickly, especially with people who just, there's a lot of tire kickers on there.

you can kind of rack up some serious money just trying to get leads on Thumbtack. So that's one of the reasons why we left that platform very early on, within like six months. But our oldest client is actually, our longest tenured client is actually from Thumbtack. Their home's been cleaned every week for three years now. every single week wow so it actually worked out Very worthwhile to pay for that lead. Yeah.

Yeah, Chris kind of mentioned the same thing in our last conversation with him, I want to say last summer, where Thumbtack is, maybe that ship has sailed a little bit. It's a little bit more difficult to kind of get a toehold in as they've adjusted their pricing.

But Nextdoor you mentioned is another channel. What's worked on there? So Nextdoor you get a lot of people who are just in the neighborhood. Nextdoor is a neighborhood platform. Nextdoor is just a bunch of neighbors just talking about what's happening in their community.

So you'll get things from I'm looking for a recommendation for a restaurant to I'm looking for a recommendation for a handyman and a cleaner. So normally that happens that people will just be on that platform looking for cleaners. Who do you recommend?

And that's not talking about pricing. If you're just pretty accommodating to answer their questions, they'll book with you. But you got to just be on the platform pretty frequently and available to answer any questions that come up. And also on there, you hear sometimes they say like, oh, my cleaner is looking for more work.

does anybody have it and so that is something that we look out for as well yeah because then we're like oh we can make them a contract and let's see let's see what's their availability let's reach out to them so that's another way that next door can be

I actually just recently did that. Someone said that the cleanup wanted more work, so I asked for the contact information. I haven't followed up with them regarding a sidetrack, but like I said, that's a great place to find cleaners and work. It just requires a little bit more availability.

Anything else on the marketing front to connect 2,700 bookings? Where are all these people finding you? Anthony and Janilka's response to that, plus how they're collecting positive customer reviews and hiring help to answer the phones right after this. Remember data from the Goonies, the guy with all the gadgets, or data from Star Trek? I think that's why I say data instead. And one thing I love about our sponsor Mint Mobile is I can get all the data I need for one low monthly price.

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Oh, yeah. Our biggest one today is Yelp and SEO. And I know that some people are indifferent with Yelp, but it's helped us tremendously. So that is where it goes. And then SEO, Yelp, and also to go back to Yelp, it depends on your market too. We got people in Dallas who, you know, who love Yelp. We got people in other places of the country who actually

Absolutely hate Yelp. And my thing is, I would say just try all marketing platforms. Just see what sticks for you. And then we also did Google Ads very early on, which was very... It took up a lot of time and money. We weren't ready for that. So we're going to actually go back to Google Ads probably sometime this year. But SEO, search engine optimization, we've been cranking out leads from people just finding us organically on Google for three years now. And check us three. We actually use a...

actual company for SEO. But it took us three years to kind of get to where we are with the SEO marketing. So now we're ranking on the first page for a lot of keywords, maids, Dallas, cleaning Dallas, things like that. So people just find us just by typing in those.

those keys i want to talk about that for a second because dallas it's not a small city we're talking like seven billion people one of the biggest cities you know in the country i imagine There were already a handful of well-established cleaning service, number one, like well-entrenched competition.

And number two, it seems like that's, I guess, why I go after cleaning business Dallas or maid service Dallas versus, you know, Arlington or Frisco or like trying to pick off like some of these, like maybe slightly smaller suburbs. Oh yeah, so we started with the suburbs early on. So that's kind of how we got our footing in some traffic because when we first started with SEL, it was like, there's no way.

you're going to be able to dominate Dallas, which we still aren't. We're on the first page with keywords, but it just depends on the keyword. But we started with some of the smaller areas. Richardson, Plano is actually a huge market. And we didn't know that until we started doing SEO. And I was like, yeah, you might want to just focus on Plano instead of trying to focus on Dallas.

So we kind of went to Garland, Richardson, Plano, Arlington, Grand Prairie. So we went around the suburbs of Dallas before we started focusing more on Dallas. But now like 90% of our jobs are in Dallas though. Yeah, that's interesting. We had a guy who was doing web development out of Phoenix, or actually a suburb of Phoenix.

And so that was his, like, don't try and go for, like, you know, the whole metro. Like, try and find this little sub neighborhood that you're a part of. And his people might be looking for that local stuff. Is that a factor of... Being on Google My Business, what else is working local SEO-wise? The thing about our physical location is that we're located in Dallas. The area that we're in is pretty centralized to Dallas. Being on Google My Business,

When you're in a Google map, you type in cleaning service near me. Guess who pops up? Because we're in Dallas as well. So that helps us a ton. And we try to keep those pictures updated. That's another one that brings us free marketing. We try to keep our pictures updated, our hours updated. before and afters and it helps us in our rankings because they'll see last updated you know this week or last week so they know we're a live cleaning business as well so that that helps a ton

Oh, okay. Interesting. So there is some element that's less set it and forget it, but just kind of keep it clean, so to speak. Keep it up to date. Yeah. So anytime there's a new blog that goes up, anyone who search for our pictures, they may get a little alert or something like that. So it does help.

Where do you prioritize sending customers for reviews? Because Thumbtack has a review platform. Yelp is obviously a huge review platform. Google has their own review platform. Facebook has their own review platform. Where do you prioritize that? So we don't send anyone to Thumbtack anymore because we're not on it anymore. And we got a good 70, I think it's like 60, 70 reviews. Yeah, we have a good amount there. So we don't send anybody there now.

Our priority is Googling Yelp, and we haven't pumped Facebook as much, but we have done that as well because we've booked clients from Facebook. But Google and Yelp, but it really depends with Yelp. I say definitely Google because anyone that has a Gmail can leave the review. With Yelp, you have to basically be a Yelper for it to stick. A Yelper. Yeah.

You can leave the review, but it would not show up basically for everyone to see. Like we can see if you left it, but if it's the first time you made an account and you don't have any friends or pictures and this is your first review, it's not going to stick. So instead of having to know for a fact who has Yelp and who doesn't, we really push Google more than anything else because there's no question there that it's definitely going to go up regardless.

So when you're asking for reviews on especially Yelp, they got to have a few things. So they got to have a picture. They got to have a profile. They have to have friends and they also have to have left reviews before. So those are four key criteria for a person to kind of leave reviews on Yelp. because we have over 80 reviews and only 50 of them are showing.

So we can see the other 30, but you can't. And they say non-verified reviews or something like that. So when you're looking for reviews, I would say stick to Google. But if you think people don't need them on Yelp and they're a Yelper, then go for it. Sometimes we just ask for both. Gotcha, that makes sense. I didn't realize all that stuff about Yelp. protect their platform and if it's your first review you come here five stars well yeah clearly you have some connection to these people you know

But that's interesting. I focus on the Google stuff because that will be visible and helps dominate those local near me types of searches. Anything else on the marketing front? This is all great. I would say with the Google reviews, to go back to that, that's important too because when you do search for the review, when you search for the cleaning business, they got this thing called the local service pack.

where local services can be featured on the top of Google if you have a certain amount of reviews and you apply for it. That's a paid platform as well, but that gets you to the top of the Google Ads. So that people can say, all right, well, my three choices are these three businesses. Who has the most reviews? So that goes a long way too.

Yeah, there's some social proof in there for sure. Oh, yeah. Tell me, and this is cool, so I'm on madestomatch.com. There's these cool sliders that say, well, how many bedrooms do you have? Where are you located? Do you want to sign up for weekly, every two weeks? That's very cool. Like what happens after somebody goes through this kind of online booking process. Let's just say I fill this in and I want to sign up. What happens next?

So once they book, we get an email saying that a client book, they get an email saying that they book the service. And we basically see the time and day. And we would reach out to our contractors saying, hey, we have a two-bedroom, two-bathroom in Frisco on Friday with arrival 8 to 10 a.m. Do you want it? That's basically how it goes depending on their availability. They say yes or no.

We assign it to the contractor. Then the client gets an email saying that, like, this confirms your cleaning. Because when you book, it doesn't really confirm that we're going to come out, but it just says, like, okay, we received it. So then they get an email saying that it's confirmed. or was that invite to the contractor was that a one-on-one like you sent that to them or was that some like automated system That's the real platform.

us through the platform um in the beginning we were having to manually just text everyone individually so we only had one person two people so yeah so we were just texting in a group chat like hey this is what we have but now through the platform we just kind of send a blast and

Kind of whoever answers first will get the job. And they can say yes if they want it or no, and then we'll get an email saying this person wants this job. Yeah, and then we'll make a decision there. So you're having about 8 to 10 contractors. It makes that process a lot easier early on. We didn't mind sending a text here and there, but now that we got so many, we're still growing. We're trying to automate as much as we can. Yeah, that makes sense. What platform is that?

That's the launch 27. And the, like I said, sorry though, when the client gets a reminder three days before we come and a day before we come so that they just, you know, let them know we're coming, make sure everything is correct with address and everything like that. we show up. And you show up so they pay through the website and you guys take your 40% and pass on 60% to the cleaner. and then everybody walks away happy. They paid through the website, and I think the back end is actually Stripe.

It's a platform they're familiar with. So it's not like we're collecting any money. We don't collect money, number one. So everything goes through the website. Everything goes through Stripe. and then we pay our cleaners every Friday via direct deposit, and it's no cash transactions. The only cash is if a client gives our cleaner a tip, and that's all there is to keep, but they can even put the tip on the website as well.

Okay. I noticed there's a phone number on here, too. Are you answering the phones yourself and trying to balance the day jobs and everything else that goes on? So we were. We currently are not, thankfully. We have virtual assistants to do that, but we were answering the phone for a good while before we had to like pass it off before we were running out of meetings and be like, okay, this is becoming too much. Then we got virtual assistants.

Yeah, earlier we weren't getting that many calls where it was impacting us, but... Now we get enough calls where it'd be a nuisance trying to run out between meetings and pick up the phone. And we were losing business, so we want to make sure we answer all those calls because, you know, if someone calls you and you don't answer... They go right on to the next person. And so you could have lost them there. And they answer our phones Monday through Saturday.

Was that an individual contractor that you found for that answering service, or was it a company that was just on their menu of service offerings? It's a company that answers for different cleaning businesses, which we recently actually just bought.

we now have a virtual assistant company less than a month in so yeah we just started with that and yeah pretty much they help clean your business owners run and manage their business like they helped us so yeah Opportunity came up and we purchased the business from the previous owners.

So now we have a virtual assistant company. Oh my gosh, this is like the Rockefeller habit. Like, you know, why am I going to pay a profit to somebody else? I'll just bring this in-house. And you're like, now we've got side hustles on side hustles.

Yeah. This is going to be a fun one because we knew the value that they were bringing. And we were like, we can't let this company just, you know, because they were going to close it. We were like, we can't let this company close. So I kind of did my diligence.

I started hitting up the owners and texting them and calling them because we also had a relationship with the owners as well. It was like, we don't want you guys to close this business. We weren't in mind taking it over. What can we work out? We worked it out and now we're running this business as well. With the...

automations and assistance that you have in place, what kind of time does it take on a daily or weekly basis to run this thing? Early on it was a lot. Yeah, earlier on it was way more. Now if I had to put it all together and just The amount of time I may speak to a contractor just for the week, I don't know, I'd probably say an hour, hour and a half. I'm not sure if it's even that much. But one time we measured it, like we were literally doing it by the second.

Each time we spoke to someone that said yes or no on a Saturday, I think we had like five or six bookings and it came out to be like 12 minutes. It really doesn't take that much out of our day at this point, at least. And that's also, that's just the labor you do. But you think about the business and you talk about it so much. But in terms of just physically being in the business, less than an hour a week. But we're always talking about it.

thinking about something so it feels like it's a lot more than that but like labor it's literally just an hour we can if that that's awesome i'm excited for what you guys have built any surprises along the way or things you wish you'd known starting out

What would we have done earlier? We say we would have done SEO earlier, especially because We had the revenue, not even from this business, but we also were saving up money. So we had the ability to do it, but we just didn't do it early on. So yeah, we didn't start SEO until like six, seven months in. We would have done that. A big surprise that we had, which I guess it depends on the state, is we weren't charging sale taxes. And so...

The government made it very clear that they wanted their money right away, and we started chair-training sales tax. We didn't know that we had to, so we did see other businesses have it, but we're like, oh, we'll just do a flat rate so that we can stand out. And then we got an accountant and she was like, oh, no, it's not an option for you where you live. You have to charge it. We're like, oh, OK. So a year and a half into the business and we had to pay like all of that.

So yeah. But again, we weren't taking out a profit from the business. We were just putting it all in an account for taxes or whatever. And so we had to cut the check. It was like, okay, it's fine. Yeah. That was a big surprise. And that was one of our biggest surprises. Other than that, I don't know if there was anything else that stuck with us. Hire someone early. Yeah, those surprises are the worst. I got a note from the city of Livermore. It was like, you owe us.

you know three years of back taxes for like home use of your business it was like some ridiculous made-up thing and I was like what you know what is this for and it was a time when the business wasn't doing so well it's just

You know, I never, you never want to get those. I'm always nervous when I get a letter that says like, you know, return address, IRS or something like, oh, this is not, this is not good. They did the same thing for us. The amount that they said, I don't even remember, was something outrageous. And it's like, we need it in like a week. And we're like, whoa.

when we finally spoke to them like how did you get this number they're like oh well we estimate what other people around you are usually making with the business so we're not really sure this is like we're only a year in so how did you get this number and we're like no that's not what we made they're like oh okay it can be adjusted Justin. Oh, thanks. We would just send them a huge check. Yeah. They would have kept it. That was like, uh-oh.

Wow. We got that squared away. So I guess another thing would have been hiring an accountant earlier or someone to look at the books. It doesn't have to be an accountant or a CPA. Just someone overlooked the books for you. Probably something we would have done earlier. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, all of that legal back office stuff. It's so time consuming. It's so frustrating because you're like, this has nothing to do with the operations. But on the other hand, it kind of does because that's what separates the people that you're hiring to do the cleaning. from you guys is that existing infrastructure and everything in place but what else is coming down the road what are you guys excited about for this year

Um, we're really trying to scale the business. So we've said that usually, but now we're at a point we recognize, okay, we put more money into marketing. we get more clients. It's just simple math. And so we're really trying to bring on more contractors to continue to grow. Like last month, we did our highest month ever.

And then... Congrats. Thank you. So we're looking... And then this month would have been higher than last month. February would have been higher than the month than January. Sorry, January was the highest month ever. And then February would have been high, but we had to close down for a week because of the storm.

So that show does. And like last week, we did our highest week ever. It just keeps growing. So we're like, we really need to get more contractors in here to continue to grow our business. We want to do like 40K a month. Right now we are between like 20 to 25K a month with sales. So we want to continue to scale that, and that's our big focus.

And then also bringing in maybe hiring people to kind of help us scale or people to help us run the business. Because I know right now we can both do it and have our nine to fives and things in all these other businesses, but we need help. So that's going to be our big thing for 2021.

to elevate it and bring help in as well. And, you know, another part of our business is that we, as we mentioned, we sell courses on how to get your business up and running and then we have a community where we help people to do it as well. That's another thing that is not necessarily the cleaning business, but it's still part of, and it's an extension of it basically. That's a huge part of it too. Yeah. So growing that.

that's some of the stuff that we're looking forward to this year yeah you guys have a lot going on there's no question about that i mean do you see like we're just going to dominate dallas or do you see this like mates to match brand going national at some point We toyed with that, but we think that we need to... excel at the Dallas one first before we even think about franchising anywhere else. At least get it to a point where we want it to be.

And then we can consider anything other places. Yeah, our SEO guy, he's like, you guys are bringing up traffic where you can start thinking about other locations. Because Dallas may take a long time to get to one, two, or three. So you guys are dominating those suburbs. We can still focus on Dallas or maybe start moving to other cities where you guys can start focusing on. It's an option. You never know. People ask us all the time, do you want to do a franchise? I'm like,

We have no idea what that looks like. Let us focus on what we're doing right now, and we'll figure that apart out later if it does come up. Yeah, well, this is a really cool example of one of these really fragmented... businesses where there's no dominant, you know, regional, it's definitely national, but

you know there's no dominant player they're like they're the go-to brand for that and so there's an opportunity for you guys to come in present a well thought out easy to use interface you know for the customer side of things and really perform well in a pretty short period of time. So I think it's one that's replicable, repeatable, not just in cleaning, but in any number of local services.

Really excited for what you guys have built. At the Hartremoni, which is a play on the last name. You find them over on Instagram there. Anthony and Janilka, thanks so much for taking the time to share the ins and outs of this thing. Let's wrap this up with a couple number one tips for Side Hustle Nation here. So number one tip for me would be, it may sound cliche, but keep going because you never know what's on the other side of that quitting factor.

Early on, we were about seven months in, we had a dry summer. It was like, it's not worth it, the time commitment. And we were right on the edge of quitting. And that August, we boosted up. Our numbers doubled out of nowhere. No new marketing, nothing. It just doubled. And we just kept going from there.

If we would have quit, we would have never known where we would have been today. We wouldn't have been able to help as many people as we have so far. So keep going. My tip would be, at least with side hustling, pick something that I think is flexible and maybe something that you're good at as well.

So I know like one of the side hustles that I've done, you know, I'm a mental health therapist. I started to do therapy online. Like I know sometimes people think this is an extension of their career. It's not a side hustle, but it is, you know, it's not, it's not necessarily a nine to five.

If there's something that you enjoy doing and if there's something that's flexible and doesn't cause, you know, stress, then go for it. I like it, guys. Thanks again for joining me. Awesome story. I'm excited to see what you guys will continue to build over there and hopefully we'll be able to keep in touch. Thanks so much and we'll catch up soon.

I think this is a really cool business model. It's almost like drop shipping for physical products where you don't buy the inventory until you've gotten paid by the customer or Anthony and Janilka the way they have it set up. They don't pay for the labor until they've got a booked job, and that makes for a very flexible, low-risk type of setup.

Alright, takeaways from this episode. A couple things stood out. The first was building relationships with existing cleaners or cleaning crews who might be interested in picking up more jobs. If you're a service provider and someone comes and offers you more work that you didn't have to go out and market for yourself, you didn't have to sell it.

and the compensation is in line with what you'd like to earn, I think that's going to be compelling. That was number one for me. The bigger challenge here is on the customer marketing side of things, especially trying to gain a toehold in a market that already has established which is probably going to be just about any market, right?

But if Anthony and Janilka can make it work in Dallas, which obviously had a ton of cleaning services already, it's something that can probably be replicated where you are. From the sounds of it, there were a couple things. going on at once there was this listening aspect trying to be where customers are they mentioned thumbtack next door google ads early on trying to build up some positive feedback and reviews enough

social proof and credibility where it becomes easier for customers to give you a chance. You're no longer this unknown quantity. The second thing was reinvesting in organic SEO, local SEO. This is something that they mentioned they'd been doing for a couple years, but are really only recently starting to see the full impact of.

And I wanted to call attention to that because it can be a very long game, especially in a big metro market like this. Smaller town, you're going to have a much shorter road to getting on that first page. But it's a slog to climb the ranks. And then all of a sudden you hit that first page and the floodgates are open. I thought the comparison between...

Google reviews and Yelp reviews was really interesting and I'm kind of in the same camp like prioritize those Google My Business reviews for maximum visibility because oftentimes that person's search is going to begin on Google and not Yelp and Google's going to prioritize those. inside your company dashboard in Google My Business, there should be a direct link in some people to ask them to leave a review.

which was a tip Matt Raul shared as something that really helped his knife sharpening business gain over 100 reviews in, I want to say, less than a year. So if you can bake some sort of feedback loop like that into your process for a local business, I think you'll start to see some real positive results in Google, which becomes self-perpetuating in a way as long as the service remains good and customers stay happy, right?

But once again, you'll find the full text summary of this episode along with all the links to the resources mentioned at sidehustlenation.com slash clean2. While you're there, I put together a free bonus download of 101 service business ideas that you might be able to apply Anthony and Janilka's strategy to.

Once again, that's at sidehustlenation.com slash clean2 or through the link in the episode description of your podcast player app. Now let's fast forward, jump in the time machine and catch up with present day Anthony after a quick word from our sponsors. Who, not how. That's the unlock that transforms side hustlers into business owners instead of business doers. You're always going to run into problems, and problem solving is a really important skill, but I'm constantly trying to remind myself.

I don't need to know how to solve everything. I just need to be able to find the people that do know how to solve it. Who, not how. And when you need to hire great talent fast, you need our sponsor indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. On top of that, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs, all with no monthly subscriptions and no long-term contracts.

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One strategy I didn't fully embrace or maybe wasn't fully aware of when I was starting out was this idea of the piggyback principle. In the startup phase, that means You don't have to start completely from scratch, but instead you can take advantage of existing tools, templates, playbooks, best practices from the people who've gone before you. A perfect example of this is our partner Shopify.

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all right anthony it's been four years a lot has happened in the maids to match business closing in on three million dollars in lifetime revenue Catch us up. What have been some of the biggest shifts since we last recorded? Yeah, last time we spoke, our cleaning business was around $20,000, $25,000. That was a couple years ago. Now we normally close out between about $45,000, $50,000, $60,000.

It's been a lot of adjustments and a lot of life during that time. We had two daughters since then, which means that we had to take our foot off the gas on certain businesses. But the good thing is that right when we had our first daughter, Alani, we hired an operations manager to run our business. And she has ran it successfully since then, which gave us a lot more time back to do and have conversations like these.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Congrats on the new additions to the family. And congrats on, it sounds like removing yourself from a lot of the day-to-day and inserting a manager in your place. What do you look for? in an ops manager there's a certain revenue milestone or someplace you got to be you got to have some margin available to hire somebody to pay be able to pay somebody to do this role yeah talk me through that because it's always like well

If I hire somebody to do it, then there's not that much left over, but there's trade-offs. I had the same mindset when we first started, and I think a lot of the trade-off is What do you value more in that season that you're in? As entrepreneurs, we always say we want more money, but we don't start businesses to get more money. We start businesses to get our time back. But as entrepreneurs, you realize that you're trading a 40-hour work week.

For any hour work, we got an entrepreneur. I'm leaving a nine to five. So when we first had this conversation, we knew we were about to have a kid. So our time is going to be extremely limited. So one of the first things we did was we go where a lot of people go overseas, right? You could find very qualified candidates on Upwork.com, onlinejobs.ph. Fortunately enough for us, our operation manager came as a referral. from a previous business venture that we had with virtual assistant.

So she worked out of Jamaica and I think her first salary was about maybe about $8 an hour. So we said, you know, we pay ourselves $20, $30, $40, $50 an hour. If we gave somebody, you know, nine, ten dollars, we should have plenty of cushion for us to at least get a couple hours back. Got it. And you don't have to jump in and hire someone 40 hours straight. You could just do part time.

and we just knew we needed someone since we had the baby is she answering the phones for you is she you know playing puppet master and saying okay this crew needs to go over here like there's a lot of moving parts in this business plus customer support and all that absolutely well when we first started she handled everything so we knew the biggest thing we wanted to get off our plate was the customer service because that took most of the time, especially since we had nine to five jobs.

We handed her over the customer service. So that could be new inquiries. That could be client complaints. That could be challenges. And then also the hiring aspect as well.

So what crew is going to show at what time she became essentially the person that's moving all the pieces into the right places. As long as she needed us, we were there in the background for her to support her. Any tools in tech that you like to use or have her use to manage all those pieces?

Yeah, so one of the things that we used from the very beginning was Slack. We created communication channels in Slack and then also WhatsApp for our cleaners. So we maintain communication there. But then also we use a platform called Basecamp. which is a project management tool. So Basecamp allowed us to have all of our documentation.

all of our SLPs, all of our conversations inside of one place. So whenever she needed to pull it, she would go use that. And also a big platform that we use was Launch 27 when we first started. which is a booking platform for essentially local service businesses where clients can book you online, pay you online, and also find you online. And you can also manage your cleaner's pay and things like that in there.

Oh, okay. I didn't know that one. Jobber has come up from time to time as like a dispatch all-in-one. Jobber is another big one. Book and Koala, Zen Maid. Yep, all of them are pretty much the same thing. Now we actually create our own, which is called Tidy Track. which we decided to bring everything in-house, and now we just use that platform. Oh, okay. Scratch your own itch, develop your own tool. Yep, that was exactly what it was. We had all these...

Different platforms, email, text, phone numbers. And we just said, you know, we can use this to create our own CRM. We have everything inside of it. You know, you're operating in a...

pretty big metro. I'm curious about the level of competition or the next generation of Anthony and Janilkas that are coming in and trying to steal market share or the drop servicing model or this remote cleaning model has become really popular so curious your take on that from somebody who you know maybe had a little bit of a head start on it we definitely had a head start on it but we have students coming in now and one of our top students he did a million dollars and

two and a half years and he only operated out of you know one city so there's still room for people to come in and do it at a high level our advantage was an early start but now

We have AI. We're talking about creating emails, we're talking about creating flags, we're talking about creating social media. There's so many tools that we didn't have when we started that people were coming in like Anthony, you're a little bit outdated on this. Now we're using AI. We had a virtual assistant company, which is now no longer needed because ai can pick up the phone for you and answer and book the client and we've tested this out so

I think the new competitive advantage is using these AI automation tools where it's going to put you ahead of the competition from day one. Okay. For somebody starting today, what are one or two of the effective marketing tactics to try and get new clients, new cleaning customers? The old handy, the one I would say focus on is Google Local Services. I would still say that because Those are people who are more intent based. They are actually looking for the services

Versus like we also do Facebook ads, but most of the time that's more interruption based services, right? You'll see a ad come up. It's like, oh, I might need a cleaning service. I would always say start with Google local services is the easiest to manage. Now, based on your area, it's going to be a little bit more expensive because it is so user-friendly and easy to manage. I will also say Google Ads will be another one. It's more controllable and managed by the user.

But again, since it's more controlled and managed by you, it's going to be a little bit harder to use. It's not as user friendly. So those would be the first ones I'd say to start with. Google local services and then probably Google ads. And then obviously if you do have a network.

It doesn't hurt to tell people, you know, any area who you are, what you do always. Do you see for people with, you know, that profile, but zero reviews, there is like a, well, I got to discount my rates. because i'm just trying to get a critical mass of social proof here if you want to try to undercut the competition you absolutely can but still since you have no social proof it's gonna be really hard to do that we got one of our first reviews from someone calling us accidentally

because she said five other companies didn't pick up. We just happened to be the sixth person that picked up the phone. And she left us a five-star review without even using our services. She said, this is the only company that picked up the phone. They were nice. They were courteous. And they allowed me to book online. Even though I didn't use them, you know, I'm here to just sing their praises.

And those are things that you can control in your business that you don't have to worry about. You know, we talk about being a compensation, just picking up the phone, right? So those are things you can do in the very beginning. What's your take on this? This was an early response to...

four-hour work week and even the fire movement of, well, everybody wants to have this remote cleaning business. At a certain point, do we run out of boots on the ground, cleaners doing the actual work? Have you had our time?

recruiting or finding talent and it's like you know nobody wants to do the dirty work anymore yeah recruitment in any business is the hardest thing you're going to do when i worked my nine-to-five job it was we that was something that we had a recruitment department that i was a part of that's all we did every single day right but

When you're talking about this four-hour work week, it's a lot more challenging to find people if you're not willing to put that work in at the very beginning. One of the things we have in mindset around now is always be hiring. That's one of our quotes. That's one of our mantras. That's what we tell our operations manager. I don't care how many people we have always be hiring. We also tell our students that.

because I just had a conversation with someone, and she's like, I had five cleaners at one point. Now I'm down to one. I was like, what happened during that time? She's like, I got comfortable. I had five. I thought I was good. So always be hiring. Now, will there ever be people, too, that stops cleaning? I don't think so.

You know, someone creates a cleaning robot like in the Jetsons back in the day. There's always going to be a home that needs to be cleaned. There's always going to need to be a person to do it. And I'll see us moving over to robots anytime soon. Yeah, it's one of these, you'd imagine, at least in the near term, semi-AI proof businesses or stuff is going to keep getting dirty and the robots aren't yet that sophisticated, although we love our little... Robot vacuum goes around.

Yeah, we got the Roombas and stuff like that, but for actually someone to come in and lift things up, put them down, clean under it, there's always going to be a need for at least people, at least in our generation. After that, we'll figure it out, but we won't be here then.

Do you see this model of essentially matchmaker where I'm going to be the marketing and administrative arm of this business, build the digital presence, go out and find customers and then find people qualified to do the work? You played around with it in any other niches. You kind of alluded to the virtual assistant service.

Do you see it working or do you see students applying it in other areas? Absolutely, man. The matchmaking market is essentially, I would say around 2008 when Airbnb said, we're going to put you in a stranger's home. and you don't know who they are, what they do, and you're just going to be okay with it. And during that time, I was like, okay, we could try this. And then Uber said, we're going to put you in a stranger's car, and you're going to be okay with it.

And then obviously there's going to be levels of protection. You want to make sure they got reviews. You want to make sure you do background checks. You want to make sure you do all of those things that make people feel comfortable. But we have seen this work in other business models for us. We had a virtual assistant business.

It was the same exact thing, right? Another business model we've seen was mobile massages. That was another one we've seen what was pretty interesting. Another one we saw was, it was another version of a daycare where assisted home living is another one we're seeing people doing. I've seen it go as far as medical assistance.

Okay. Which not as far as, but I've seen it go as high as medical assistance where people are finding people are qualified, trained, and they have medical backgrounds and the person just managing the business. I've seen that actually as a new demographic of people getting into the medical assistant business as well. So those are a few business models where they're exactly the same thing as what we do, just on different levels.

Yeah, I guess that's care.com or pop-up pal you know the caregiving type of marketplaces we've used zeal like the massage matchmaker service you punch in what time you want it and they send it out to their network of licensed massage people and they come to your house.

Another example of that, we just hired an all-pair, and essentially all the agency does is find people who are qualified to take care of kids, and they match us with them. It's the same exact process, and we have her living in our house right now. This is our second one. So, I mean, we pay a lot more money for that. What was the name of the au pair service? So that was cultural care.

okay because we had a woman on the show and that was her business she was like franchising out this like nanny matchmaking service it was like hey you know it's hard to find the right people but you know our proven system and it was like Alright, this is cool. I met someone who does the nanny service and I was like, how do you do it? She's like, oh, I don't call the nanny.

So I have a roster of nannies that I've interviewed that I've background checked and I refer them out to people. And that's exactly how she runs her businesses. So it's more common than we've realized. But I think just because we talk about it so much, people just can't comprehend the, oh, I don't have to go out and clean aspect of it. But it happens all around us. Yeah. In the online world, we call it like the freelance trap of getting stuck. selling your skills, selling time for money.

It's like, well, if you start with the intention of being the owner operator and hiring other people to do the work from the very beginning, you kind of avoid that freelance trap. This is the matchmaker model, the agency model, you know, lower margins, but more scalable. because you're not tied to your direct time. Yeah.

it sounds like this is you know the full-time income at this point plus the the influencer business which we'll get to in a second Was there a revenue target? At what point do you feel comfortable saying goodbye to the career? So I don't think you ever feel comfortable. And even when I handed in my resignation letter and I had the whole goodbye speech ready.

We were never ready. We just had a kid. We just bought a house. It was the end of the year. But I just had the blessing of my wife that we were able to do it. And we said, worst case scenario. I could go back to work and go back to my same job if I wanted to or get another one.

But I think the level of comfort we had was when we had six months of emergency savings in our bank account liquid, just in case we didn't have that consumer debt anymore. We had enough savings for our new baby on the way. And we was like, It's not going to be a better time. And, you know, we just took the lead. Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Like, it's never comfortable, right? It's still like, oh, what am I doing? I've got this, you know, track record. I got this business that's doing well.

Can I really cut my own paycheck? How sustainable is that? Scary. All of these things could disappear. And my wife keeps telling me that. how likely is it that everything disappears at the same time it's not very likely but you know as an entrepreneur you're always thinking like what if this happens like obviously you got the more upside but you never know so um that was my fear like what if what if she's like what if this works

And now four years later, I'm a full-time entrepreneur. And then funny enough, Janoka, she actually got laid off a month into her maternity leave. Okay. Is that even legal? That's a whole other story, but she got laid off a month into her maternity leave. And we were like, well... okay here we are here we are yeah sometimes it's almost it's never fun to get laid off it's almost easier if somebody else forces your hand and you're like okay well

now or never i guess that we've been talking about it for years who would leave first and when we're gonna leave and it was kind of like jumping into a rope and we never did it i didn't then her job you know forced her to do it so uh yeah that was that was a funny one not funny but you know yeah talk to me about the

education side people started to take notice of your success with the cleaning business you've got cleaningbusinessmasterclass.com i see the two comma club uh you know cook funnels plaque on the wall behind you there's been A lot of interest in other people learning to do what you do. Yeah, it started right at the height of the pandemic. And coincidentally enough, people think that the cleaning business was doing bad.

And they say, oh, well, why do you sell courses? And actually the cleaning business hit its highest months during the pandemic. which proved that the business model was efficient. And then all we did was we just started sharing. I mean, we've been sharing our journey since 2017 online, but we never really thought people cared about the cleaning business because it was unsexy.

we got a little bit of interest in it. And what it turned into was a full blown, you know, multiple seven figure business. where now we have about 2,000 students inside of Cleaning Business University. They've done over $18 million in their own cleaning businesses. They've cleaned over 50,000 homes and opened up businesses in 40-plus states. And it took on a whole life of its own. How crazy is that? Think about like the cumulative.

dust removed from from america i like it there's some cool metrics to think about like the influence that you've had yes and we never thought people cared about it but we realized the more we shared the more people we impact And then also, you know, as long as we're helping students get a result, whether it's to help them pay off an extra bill like when we started or travel a little bit more, pay down some debt.

Or some people have, you know, left their nine to fives and gone full time into this thing. And that's when we realized that there was true impact in sharing our story outside of the debt freedom story. Yeah, as a typical funnel to speak, your social media, YouTube podcast, to... you know to email opt-in straight to a sales page what does the journey look like for a typical student we've tried a few different things so

When we first started, we were completely low tech, no tech. It was an Instagram live of us sharing everything we know in one video. And we had people like, if you want us to turn this into a program where that's adjustable for you. You could go through your own pace, you know, and send us a DM and that was it. And we got, I think, 10 sales at ninety nine dollars.

And we said, okay, now we got validation. Yeah, quick validation, lowish price point. Yep. So we was like, okay, now we have to go and do this thing. So we spent a weekend building out the curriculum, recording it on Zoom just like this. And fast forward four years later, now we have a whole community inside of Mighty Networks. We have a full-time staff admin assistant.

We got a full-time customer service agent in it. We got full-time or part-time coaches in it also. And it's developed and become its own thing at this point. But it was really just a DM and then now we have Clean It Business Masterclass where we got so many questions on a weekly basis. And it's like every single week I go and perform the same exact masterclass.

for a full year at russell brunson style do it once for a year see how it goes and um so that's what we've been doing yeah it seems like it's working really well and your students are getting great results so you are the heartramoni on instagram cleaningbusinessmasterclass.com. We mentioned that. You've also got the More Than a Side Hustle podcast. I love it. Lots of episodes out over there.

next for you? Where are you guys taking this thing? That's a great question. The way I see Clean Air Business University is I want it to be an all-in-one platform for entrepreneurs who happen to own clean air businesses. I think That's one of the biggest differences between us and, you know, cleaning business owners is like, this is just one way we're able to achieve an outcome.

So even inside of our platform, we talk about taxes. We talk about strategy. We talk about investing for your kids. So we had kids. people want to know how are you investing for alani and amaya so we brought in our strategists who are helping us invest so that we know by alani's 18th birthday She'll have like close to a million dollars saved and invested. So we're bringing everything that's in our entire world, our all pair, how we found them, how you guys can use them as well.

Everything that we've learned over the course of these eight years, you know, as we've been sharing this journey, we bring that back to our community so that they can use resources as they see fit. And the cleaning business just might be one stopping point along their entire journey. They might learn from us about the cleaning business. They might say, I want to go start a car rental business, or I might want to start a micro-influencer business, or I might want to just share my story online.

We see it as an all-in-one platform and curriculum for anyone who wants to learn about entrepreneurship by the vehicle of having a cleaning business. and then also obviously raising our two kids yeah people learn right alongside you as you've grown and The family has grown and, you know, different seasons, different stages come up all the time. So I'm happy to hear that. Absolutely. Again, cleaningbusinessmasterclass.com. Check it out over there. Big thanks to Anthony for sharing his insight.

Thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone. As always, you can hit up sidehustlenation.com slash deals for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place. That is it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen. And I'll catch you in the next edition of the Side Hustle Show.