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Welcome to the Side Hustle Show. Nick, thank you so much for having me. Long time listener. And, you know, you and I have been friends for a while. It's just I am so honored to be back on the show and here hanging out with you. Well, I'm honored to have you. I mean, nobody has had a bigger influence on the creator.
in the early years of Sinusel Nation than yourself. So it's been such a fun journey and a sincere thank you to everything that you do. My pleasure. My pleasure. The new book is Lean Learning, How to Achieve More by Learning Less. And it's coming out this week. Why don't we start there? Smart passive income idea number one. What grade would you give book publishing here? I know you've got experience in the self-publishing world, in the traditional publishing world. What's your take on this one?
Yeah. So when I think of passive income, there's always going to be an investment of time to create the thing. Nothing, of course, as you teach and as I teach, nothing just happens overnight. And there's sort of two levels to this, right? There is the how long does it take to create the thing?
And then actually after it's created, how passive is it actually? A book takes a long time, I will say. Are we ranking from like one to 10, 10 being a great idea, one being not so great or? Yeah, sure. You could do a letter grade, number grade. Yeah, let's do one through 10. I would say for the purpose of passive income, direct passive income from a book, I would give it more like a two.
And I give it a two because it is a, gosh, it is an adventure and a journey to create the book. You likely need more of an audience first before you actually then sell the book.
write a book and then sell it and build an audience with a book is a little bit more difficult, although possible. And then the revenue from the book itself is not going to be that grand. I mean, that's not why you should be writing a book for the revenue, although I knew some people who do have some business models around books. and they're writing multiple books on Amazon and that is working for some people. In general, the revenue...
for a book is more likely to come from, well, what does the book then lead to? Does it lead to something else that is more passive, like a course or some program or something, a software that you might have? That's where it could really, you could turn on the afterburners, but a long time to create.
not very much direct revenue, a two out of 10. Get everybody real fired up to start dusting off the keyboards and start writing a book. Maybe it's because I just finished this one and it's like been such a slog. Multi-year journey, yeah. Oh gosh, two and a half years and... You know, I'm talking about it so much. It's just like.
Don't start here, but it is something beautiful. It is something that can land more speaking gigs. It is something that could lead to more sales of other things for sure. But you're still collecting royalties off of Will It Fly and Superfans. Like it is once it's out there, like it's out there and it's you create it once, sell it over. and over again. True.
Very true. I mean, we know 4-Hour Workweek is still selling for Tim Ferriss. Atomic Habits is still selling for James Clear. That's very passive. And the royalties, I'm sure, not bad. There's something to that. The people I see having the most success in self-publishing. the serial authors of the world, where it's just like, they're cranking out book after book. Chris Gillibald, probably an example of this, where it's just like, or in the fiction space, where it's just like...
Hey, the next book in the series is coming out. If you have a build up a legion of fans who... She falls in love with a wolf this time, not a vampire, like the next part of the series. Yeah, whatever it is. But in the nonfiction world, think of it, you know, the book has a bit... Like Pat said, what does it lead into? Does it lead into a course? Does it lead into speaking engagements? Does it...
The Tony Robbins example, you can buy the book for $10 or you can go to the $10,000 walk across hot coals three day. Yeah. Think of it as one product in the pricing tier, but the pack is publishing a two. The second passive income idea on our list is online.
courses. We talked a little bit about this on the show recently, but what's your take here on the current state of online courses? Yeah, I would put this more at a seven, so much on the higher end, because it is something that allows you to create once.
and then sell over and over and over again. And if you have the right audience and you're targeting the right people, whether you use ads or not, it can be very, very fruitful. However, you have to... battle a couple things that we're dealing with today versus how it once was when you and I first started things like online courses were super valuable because that information didn't exist before right it's now packaged and conveniently placed here in this course and that's worth a person's money
in exchange for the value of what's inside. Now, as I talk about in my book, Lean Learning, Information itself just isn't as valuable as it once was, right? If you had an Encyclopedia Britannica in your home before, it was valuable. Now that's a waste because everybody has access to all the same information now. So if you just... crank out an online course expecting to just put information that is, again, freely available pretty much anywhere else.
and package it in a course, unless you have A, a rabid fan base, or B, you somehow position that material in a way that is specific to a group of people. so riches are in the niches, as I often say, then it's going to be very difficult to get any movement on that. It doesn't, in my opinion, take a lot of time to create if you know exactly what you're talking about and you use, you can even use tools like AI to help you outline and create things. But unless there's...
some personality into it or something unique about it for who it is you're selling it to, it's going to be very, very tough because I think a lot of people are in the camp of, I don't need more information today. Right, right. It's like, how do we structure it? We've seen that shift from straight up.
pre-recorded video courses to more of a cohort-based systems where it's like, we're all going to start this thing on June 1st. We're all going to go through it together. And there's some level of accountability or one-on-one or group coaching versus straight. you know, pre-recorded evergreen online material. Exactly. Exactly. That's actually what we did at SPI. So we were selling online courses from 2017 to 2020.
And we've switched more toward what we call a community-powered course model, which is groups of people going through these courses at a time. You can still take them on your own if you'd like, and they're all in a membership now. But the ones that are working really well where people are getting real results. And the values absolutely there are when people go through it together with others in a cohort style with a start date and an end date and some accountability along the way.
It's an interesting place to be as a purveyor of information or a seller of information in an age when information is so overwhelmingly available. And maybe this kind of leads into the next one. The next one on this list, number three, is blogging. This was like... you know, at the top of everyone's passive income list, you know, 10, 15 years ago. And just with the algorithm updates and the...
Reddit in the search results and the AI answer snippets. It's a much tougher game in this space. Yes, I would rank blogging. If I could rank it below one, I would. Wow. At this point. It's sad. As a longtime blogger. Oh, man, yes. I mean, that's how I got my start. It's how everything started. And you were missing out on opportunities by just sticking with.
text alone does this mean it's not possible no there are people who are amazing bloggers who they have that voice and they that's their favorite medium and that's okay but in terms of getting more rapid results and leaning into the platforms that are working like YouTube or audio podcasts, you're definitely missing out that opportunity to meet audiences where they're at, right? Not force people to read stuff.
when they're elsewhere. That's why I think these other platforms are more beneficial, and I would rank those higher, which we might get into. But in terms of blogging, you had mentioned the exact reasons why it's not working anymore. Search engine optimization has changed. When I look up for something in Google,
I don't see the first organic search results anymore. I see, number one, an AI summary from Google, the answer. Then I find a number of ads and sponsored posts. Then I see, of course, the first organic posts are then going to be Reddit. And anything that is from anybody that is more like us is going to be buried not on the first page, but like 40 search results down at least or something like that. Again, that's a general sort of blanket statement.
It makes blogging in that method harder. We're even seeing a lot more text being put into now email newsletters rather than more publicly facing blogs. but rather as a medium or middle funnel kind of situation versus a top of funnel. That being said, a lot of email service providers now are providing top of funnel.
through the email medium in likes of Kids Creator Network or Substack and its little, you know, way to kind of promote newsletters amongst each other. So yeah, this is why I think there's more opportunities that are better than blogging. And sadly, I give it a one. Interesting. So if you're a text-focused creator, or if that's your sweet spot, maybe shift to...
a newsletter type of business or even a paid wall type of newsletter through Substack or something like that? That would be my recommendation, yes. And that forces you to go, okay, how do I compete with these others who...
are getting people's emails and become the person that when a person wakes up in the morning and my email gets sent through, what's going to make them open my email? Because they're in an inbox. We know people are in inboxes still. That's what we have to our advantage doing emails versus blogging where.
Are people even looking up this kind of stuff and finding blogs anymore? No, they're on YouTube and Reddit and other places like that. Yeah, we'll get into some of those. So that was number three. You got a rating of one, blogging did. Number four on the list of passive income ideas.
is real estate. And real estate comes in a lot of different flavors, but let's call it single family rental properties for the sake of simplicity here. So this leads me to like the bigger pockets community and those kinds of people. I've had conversations with people there recently. I have participated in... estate as well, getting a single family home as a rental that I can then kind of experiment with. And I found out quickly that that just wasn't for me. There were a lot of...
fees and, you know, connecting with a management company. Overall, my time, I, for me, was better spent in the online business space and creating things in this world versus that world. That being said, there are a lot of people who do very well there. And it's kind of up to you how well. how far you want to go. I know people who have
hundreds of homes and multifamily homes and even commercial buildings who have built empires, but they're also leading teams of hundreds of people and are overwhelmed with that. And for some, that's awesome. And for others, it's not necessarily a road you want to go down, while others just have a few rental properties.
for some extra cash or something like an Airbnb situation for some extra cash flow, which is fine. I would put it at a six. It is for those who enjoy that kind of stuff, but other people, there are maybe better ways to spend their time. Yeah, potential. cash flow, potential appreciation, potential tax benefits. But for every person shouting the benefits of passive income through real estate, a graveyard of burnt out landlords saying it was anything but. For sure.
And the capital to begin, the time and energy and effort to begin that is a lot higher than, you know, creating something online or building a YouTube channel or something like that, for sure. Yeah, I was talking with somebody in the personal finance space. I have a similar question. He said, yes, wealthy people. park their money in real estate as an inflation hedge. But in your situation specifically, your ROI is going to be so much better spent doing what you do, pouring more fuel.
on the creator business, on the fire, just because it's so lean, low overhead, and you can see the immediate impact there. Right. My trouble with real estate is... how slow it is in terms of well and of course like if you sell a home if you're selling homes versus like having a home for a rental either way you need tenants and ideally you just want the tenants to stay there
Forever. And have that passive income continue. However, it's now no longer completely under your control what happens because... If something happens to the home or the tenants aren't great and they move out, it's like now you have to then answer to that in order to keep the passive income going. And all passive income streams require some upkeep of sorts.
Again, real estate can be very beneficial. But for me, in my liking, I would put it at a six. And, you know, I feel there's better opportunities for sure for passive income. Yeah, we've got some fun, a fun series of. what i call unconventional rental businesses yeah houses are expensive but here are some other assets that you can get into for a lot less and it started with you know somebody doing uh bounce house inflatables like and that was his inspiration
who wanted to get into real estate investing. Here's a different kind of house that I could buy for a lot less. Yeah, that's great. But we did mobility scooters and photo booths. We did a guy who was doing moving boxes in Sacramento. We had a woman doing bridesmaid dresses in Australia.
these other rental assets where it's like, yeah, there's a little bit of labor involved and some upfront costs, but a lot less than a house, but the interesting ones. Number five on our list of passive income ideas is e-commerce. And you've got some experience here with the SwitchPod. I do.
A handheld selfie stick, basically. Is this thing still selling? Yeah, it is still selling. It's very passive. I mean, it's not totally hands off. It's for sale on Amazon and our switchpod.co website. This is in partnership with my buddy, Caleb, my videographer. And I think e-commerce could be split into a couple different realms. I mean, we went the hard route.
For sure. And this was more of an experimental play for both of us to try something we hadn't tried before. And we had this idea. It wasn't done before. The idea behind the tripod is these legs can fold into each other and become a handle for you to easily kind of open and close. Yeah. Do your filming on the go. So that's what the SwitchPod is. And it worked really well. We launched it in 2019.
On Kickstarter, and we had generated $415,000 in 60 days from that launch, but it was not an overnight thing for sure. It took time to invent and create and iterate and fail on and, you know, quite a bit of investment, you know, 25 to 30K of our...
our own dollars put into that. But it is now for sale in a semi-passive manner and we're generating revenue through it. And it is an asset now that, you know, has a value. And if we wanted to, we could sell it. And, you know, we're open to that potentially. That being said, there are ways to do e-commerce.
that are much easier using tools like white labeling to be able to take a product that already exists, maybe change it just a little bit or add a logo to it and then create a brand around that. This is how much of what's being sold on Amazon. That's how it's working. Now TikTok.
shop as well and that is not having to invent the product but you're you're molding it to a particular audience in a way and that works really well there's a lot of people who are very very well known in that world yeah and maybe less up front i mean
Still going to have a capital intensive business with minimum order quantities and stuff if you're getting something manufactured, but perhaps less than inventing something completely from scratch and going through design iterations and everything. Correct. Correct. And of course, there's, okay, do you, where do you, how is these?
Like, do you have a warehouse? Do you store them in your home? And do you have to package and ship them yourself? These are all thoughts that reduce the passiveness of this. It can be fun to do that. But we use, with SwitchPod, we use a third-party logistics company, a 3PL, to be able to... just to automate any sales that come in through either our website or Amazon. They get the address, they ship it out. We just pay a minimal fee.
for that. And that's, again, what keeps it as passive as possible, even though it eats into our profits. We want it to be as passive and we're not going to lean into it and scale it up in a way that takes more of our time. Yeah, I think of every layer.
of assistance that you have with through either fulfillment by amazon or through a 3pl somebody's somebody's taking a fee for warehousing this thing somebody's taking a fee for packing that off the shelf and packing it but it's if the design is to be
hands-off, then it's worth it, especially if you've got the margin to play with. For sure. Now, for the direct-to-consumer examples that we've seen, it's like they've got to bake in kind of customer acquisition. And so it's like, well, it's going to cost us $5, $10, $20, sometimes more.
just to acquire a customer and hope in the case of switch pods like well it's kind of a one-time purchase unless like somebody's running a whole videography team right and so some of the other successful products that we've seen have kind of almost a
some level of baked it not necessarily like a full like subscribe and save type of deal but like yeah but like a consumable type of thing yeah yeah that that works really really well like i know a person who does protein powder and it's like these people subscribe every month because they need their protein powder and they're kind of in a ritual with it, which is amazing. There are some things like that for other products like, you know, batteries.
Etc. The things that people use and then have to like re-up into. Yeah, like a native deodorant or something like. Soaps. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So e-commerce is a big world, but I would give it a seven because there's definitely opportunity there. I think there's a lot to be said with how passive you could potentially make it, as well as just the joy of seeing somebody use the thing.
physically yeah there was so much joy in having people buy the switch pod and then literally use it and see it and get value from it versus like okay now you bought the course but You still have to spend a month to dive into it and put into that practice. Right, right. Yeah, it's like instant gratification. You can see it out into the wild. That's cool. Correct, correct. The other important thing that you brought up here is, yes, it's an evergreen.
asset that can make sales relatively passively but the business itself is an asset that has equity and that's what i love about building these little businesses is like yes i'm working for cash flow in the near term but i'm also working for equity and that's kind of like the big wealth unlock where it leads to some some bigger outcomes but right it's like real estate online versus in a house
Yeah, exactly. All right. So e-com was rated a seven. Number six on our list of passive income ideas is software or apps. We're going to get Pat's reaction to that plus the rest of our passive income ideas coming up right after this. The common advice is to hire slow and fire fast, but there comes a point when you need help in your business and you need it like yesterday. So how can you find amazing candidates fast?
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Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash side hustle. Go to shopify.com slash side hustle. shopify.com slash side hustle. Oh, this is something that when you can nail it, I mean, it could be a game changer. It is. So I have experience with software and I failed completely one time and I had spent twenty thousand dollars.
diving into it too quickly and that was the big lesson i was chasing dollars with software versus chasing building a solution for a group of people this is back in 2013 2014 i i i was um be almost the you know you watch those old cartoons and the dollar signs are coming out of the eyeballs that that was me and now i needed that lesson it really grounded me to have failed on that building a wordpress plugin that really went nowhere and i didn't even take it to market because
I had tried to keep this whole thing secret, and then I eventually let people know about it, and they were like, this is not good. I would never buy this. If only I had learned to practice what I now teach in my book, Will It Fly, which is to share these ideas, have them poke holes in it, get those ideas up front. before you build or spend money. Anyway, software companies, though, I mean, I would put this at a nine.
It's going to take a little bit more time, but you can work with a minimum viable software product. I'm reminded of a very, very popular podcast episode on my show with Dane Maxwell, who was a, you remember Dane? Dane talked about the example he used.
was somebody who was like a building inspector who every time they went to inspect a building, they took out a sheet of paper and they'd have to manually put all this stuff in and then it took some time to like scan it and do it. There was so much labor. He was able to build an iPad app.
That would do all this for you where you could take pictures of buildings and it would measure it for you. And then you can keep track of it in a portfolio. And he created a software, very minimal, by the way, but it just did the job that these people would pay like $99 a month to use. And he was able to get.
hundreds and then thousands of people to use this software product and then ended up selling that again as an asset to another company that took it to a whole new level yeah yeah yeah monthly cash flow plus equity in the business yeah recurring revenue oh gosh it was it's like the dream and with software it's nice because when you
nail it then it's just like okay your product's there a you just have to sell more of it you don't have to touch anything it's just done automatically once people buy it yeah it's ones and zeros the incremental cost is next to nothing exactly and b Similar to a physical product and the joy that I was talking about there, people can get immediate value from the tool that you create for them. The utility of it happens almost immediately with software.
And when you can bake in the software into a person's process, like imagine a Dropbox, like I can't live without Dropbox. I'm going to pay. that monthly yeah it becomes it becomes very sticky oh yeah there's certain tools like that where it's like the switching costs are so high it's like fine here comes the other annual uh annual billing here
For sure. So the upside is huge because, you know, if it's sticky, then you get another hundred people the next month and they stick and then you get another hundred the next month and it can just continue to stack. The only issue with software is as passive as it can become.
If you let it become too passive, it's going to become out of date. Or there's also going to be maybe some bugs that pop up or some outlier cases that you're going to have to squish. Sure. Yeah, there's maintenance. Yeah. Right. So it's not a release of software and then you're on the beach with your laptop and join.
cocktails kind of thing. It's going to require some upkeep, but it's not a trade your time for dollars situation at all. And there might be seasons where, you know, something blows up, the servers crash, and it's like, now I'm working 16 hours a day to fix this thing.
That kind of stuff can happen, but the software opportunity is huge and, you know, more and more people. Even I saw Ryan Dice recently from Digital Marketer. He retired Digital Marketer. He's going into software now. Oh, okay. There's a huge play there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Fusebox, formerly Smart Podcast Player, still is the embedded podcast player on the Side Hustle Nation website. Amazing. Do you still own that business? I do. I do. Okay.
See, there's passive plugin registration fees every year coming from at least one user over here. Thank you. All right. We've got actually a recent episode this year on using AI to build out. some of these software tools with pete mcpherson and i'll link that up in in the show notes uh you don't necessarily need to know how to code to get bring something to market which is really really eye-opening episode that's right number seven on our list is product
licensing. Do you have any experience in this space? I do not, but I know some people who do. So there's some levels to this, right? On one level, I interviewed a person who was the inventor of the Rumpelstiltskin. No, not Rumpelstiltskin. What's the bear? Teddy Ruxpin. Oh, okay. Yeah, okay.
Yeah, I remember those commercials. That was the weirdest thing I've ever said on a podcast. Teddy Ruxpin, which was like a little bear from the 80s and 90s that would like talk back to you. It had like a plastic heart that would light up. This was this person's idea.
That he then sold to a company and got a license to basically he was getting royalties on everyone that was sold. I don't know what the percentage was exactly, but I mean, he had the idea. He shared it with a company who wanted the idea. He was able to make a deal and great.
He was giving some examples to, I wish I remember the name off the top of my head, but this was one of the first hundred episodes, I think, of the podcast and I'm close to 900 now. So I'll find it in a sec. I definitely want to give him credit. But he was talking about like, what if you had an idea for a tool, but you didn't know.
have any manufacturing idea you didn't have mold you never done that before but you had this great idea you could go to a company yeah and present it and license that idea to them and make a rev share. Is that kind of in the realm of what you're talking about? Yeah, and I'm wondering if the person you're thinking of is Stephen Key from InventRight.
Stephen Key. That's right. That's exactly right. From his world headquarters up at Lake Tahoe, he's kind of overseeing and helping a bunch of other inventors in this space where it's like, yeah, you might get a three to 5% royalty licensing agreement, but you had zero. startup costs aside from maybe a sample or you know some prototype you know a provisional patent application and then sending it out to these companies that already have the manufacturing know-how and the distribution channels
and it's like right it's a really really compelling versus because we kind of pitched it against the white labeling or private labeling amazon fba model where it's so capital intensive and even when you do have a product that hits you're plowing everything back into extra inventory for
sometimes years yeah it's like well here let somebody else deal with that if you if you get a kick out of just coming up with the ideas like like some let somebody else handle all those hard parts and just do the fun stuff Right. It's probably the most passive idea we've talked about so far, because literally after you sign that deal and agreement, it's basically hands off at that point. And how cool is it to just say like, oh, I, you know, this was my idea, but.
Now another company owns it, but you get some shares. That's really cool. Where I was going before in terms of there's another level to this is there's a lot of people who have information, like they might have a course. or a program to license that to somebody who now has an audience, right? There's a world where your information inserts itself into somebody else's course, for example, who might have an audience in a baked in marketplace, for example.
And they will pay you sort of a fee to essentially license your material. So it's not just the idea. It could be your actual material can be used. And using that inside of, you know, I spoke with somebody a number of years ago, but he took his material. And it became a part of this company's sort of employee onboarding process. Oh, OK. They just use his material instead of instead of their own. They just licensed it.
Yeah. Somebody else has already created it. They did a nice job. Right. Yeah. We don't have to reinvent the wheel here. Right. Right. So like thinking more broadly about how your material could make sense for other industries and other companies, it might be a value for you to offer a license to use that versus. you know, them creating it on their own and it not being as good because you were the expert on that. Interesting. Yeah, maybe there's a B2B corporate training side hustle.
in licensing some of your material. The tough part is making sure you read all the documents, you have a good attorney, you make sure that you don't fall into traps because people do fall into traps in here because they don't know what they're doing and they're being taken advantage of. And that's the big worry here. So for this, I would give it a six. because...
Even though there's less cost up front, it is, you know, manual labor to figure out and to work with an attorney perhaps is maybe where the most cost would be up front with these ideas. And you have to learn how to communicate your ideas and present and, you know, probably come up with a slide deck and all those kinds of. Right. I mean, Shark Tank is maybe a version of this, right, where you can share maybe some.
parts of your business in exchange for somebody who has those connections. Very good. That was number seven, product licensing number eight. Talk to me about YouTube. Talk to me about becoming the biggest Pokemon influencer around. Yeah, 2020 came around. We were all sitting here. My kids were getting into Pokemon, so I decided to start a collection with them. And through my collection, I started to find other YouTubers, and I got...
you know, my entrepreneurial brain turned on. And I was like, wow, there's a lot of YouTubers here who are doing really great things, but they're all kind of doing the same thing, I think. Based on my experience, I could come and bring something more interesting and tell some better stories, which is exactly what I did. And so now fast forward to 2025. First video came out in early 2021. We have 1.65 million subscribers. We are approaching 1 billion views on our long form channel.
And it has now accounted for a five-figure per month income. A billion views open in Pokemon packs. Deep pocket monster. I'm a 42 year old man opening cardboard with with some shine on it sometimes. And now there's also a shorts channel that was created kind of siloed off off of that. OK.
Which in and of itself is 1.6 million subs and in and of itself is a lower five-figure per month income as well. Interesting. Not passive. Not passive. But so that's one of my questions. Actually, two questions. First, you would recommend splitting off a short... channel versus diluting the main channel no not always not always if it's the same audience
Exactly. It should be actually on the same channel. I broke it off for two reasons. Number one, a family who's watching me complete a set in 24 hours for a 45 to one hour length video is different than the person who's doom scrolling.
at night looking at somebody who just wants to see a pack opened in 60 seconds. It's a different audience, even though it's Pokemon. That being said, there is some overlap. In general, especially for you podcasters out there, if you have a podcast and there's a video podcast.
And you have, you know, all of it should be on one episode, on one. If you take clips from it, for example, it just all helps that channel. That's the best practice from the mouths of YouTube, actually. So that answers that first question. But secondly, it's not passive.
at all because i mean if i were to stop all the pokemon stuff today i would still likely see because the videos are presented in a more evergreen fashion these are stories being told these are challenges they're not here's the new set that just came out that then this
video will mean nothing to you in a month right kind of video which is what most other people were doing i could stop and it would continue to generate probably five figures a month for the next couple years if i were to stop now completely yeah i was gonna say because the the videos that you released, you know, a couple of years ago, they're still racking up views passively. Right. To keep feeding the beast, to keep feeding the algorithm, they got to come up with new content all the time.
Yeah, it feels like that. And you definitely as a creator get drawn to that, especially when you see income coming in, you see views, you see comments, there is a trap.
that many creators fall into where they then experience burnout. And thankfully, the Pokemon thing for me is still on the side. I have specific days of the week where that's all I'm working on, and it's just basically one and a half days per week, whereas SPI is still my major thing because of the videos and the way that they're...
film they are evergreen there is one video that was filmed for example in 2022 where i went to hawaii and i went to a convention and i finished this really difficult set in 48 hours it brought the community together there was a little crying at the end it was super emotional and that video i think has
12 or 13 million views and has accounted for over $100,000 in ad revenue. Just one video. That's nuts. And it slowly ramped up to that over time and other videos have done just as well and some videos don't. But, you know, we're going to keep casting that bait out there and hopefully catching some big fish. Yeah, that's really cool. Deep Pocket Monster. Go check him out. Some of these fun Pokemon card challenges.
So I have to give it a nine. And the reason is not just because I'm biased toward YouTube, but also the ability for you on YouTube to, whether it's on long form video or on short form video, and I've proven it on both.
You can create a deep relationship with your audience there. And with that deep relationship, with that trust that you build, you can build anything, really. You can sell merch, like what we're going to start doing soon, or sell a product or do affiliate marketing. I'm the number one affiliate for a binder company. in the UK and I generate a few thousand dollars per month and they just send me a check every month because I've
put more customers in their hands, right? Affiliate marketing in Pokemon with a binder. It's crazy, but it's all the stuff that I've learned in the past and in business and entrepreneurship and all these other endeavors now being put in a new space. So everything you learn, everything you do.
can stack and and move forward into the next thing and it has proven to be the case here with pokemon now which is kind of cool yeah do you want to do affiliates uh affiliate marketing is number nine sure number nine affiliate marketing i think is a 10 and i think it's a 10 because number one the
Ability for you to find a product that makes sense for your audience, that serves them. And it doesn't have to be your own product. In fact, that's the definition of affiliate marketing. You're promoting or recommending other people's products. If you can find the right product, it's incredible because it can become as if it were your own.
in the way that you promote it, in the way that you sell it, and even in the revenue that you could generate from it, depending on how well those commissions are, whether it's a physical product or a digital product, you can do this on day one of your content as well. That being said, of course, you don't want to be salesy on day one. Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't know if I would come out.
straight out of the gate like if that's my only play but yeah right but I mean I could argue against that and say well Nick if you found somebody on day one who needed help with something and you had a product that can help them, would you say, you know what, I just started, I have this thing that can help you, but you know what, I don't have 100 subscribers yet, so I'm not even gonna tell you, right? I sure, I sure.
Again, authentically sharing these things so that you help people is always going to be the case, whether you're just starting out or not. So the other thing about this is the affiliate marketing you do can lead to incredible partnerships.
with the companies that you're promoting. I have become not just an affiliate for companies, but I have become advisors for some of these companies like Kit and Circle. I'm now owning a piece of that company, a small percentage, by the way. Yeah, this was going to be number 10 on my list.
Oh, okay, well, we'll get there in a sec. With affiliate marketing, it's cool, too, because if you create, for example, how-to content on how to use this product, like I once created a video on how to use Descript. That video, which was published four years ago, still continues to generate views because it's a good video on how to use Descript. I have one for how to use Kit, how to use Canva, all these things that then inject an affiliate link at the end.
And by the way, you have to be up front with that. It's FTC regulations. You have to be up front with the affiliate relationship there. But even so, those videos still continue to generate more views and therefore more revenue because they're putting more customers in. And that Descript video, one of them.
has generated over a hundred thousand dollars in affiliate revenue over the years i talked about some of the ai stuff in that tool before ai was like isn't it isn't it such a magical tool it's super cool it's amazing i had once been a advisor to lead into number 10 but we'll get into that i was an advisor for
Squadcast which then got bought out by Descript so I also now own shares of Descript which is kind of cool but I would give affiliate marketing a 10 it's the easiest to start with you can start in the beginning and even if nobody sees your content in the beginning
As you grow, people will go back to episode one. They'll go back to your older YouTube videos and see those recommendations that are, again, hopefully genuine that can help people. And then you can get a commission for that over time. And like if you can help people and make sales at the same time, like that's the most beautiful thing.
because everybody wins. Yeah, one of my favorite affiliate examples of going like really, really deep on one product is Matt Wolf and his like Thrivecart obsession where he started a dedicated like... how to use Thrivecart website like a whole website he had a Thrivecart Facebook group he had a Thrivecart YouTube channel he had a Thrivecart like newsletter it was just like going nuts and I think he was doing Thrivecart you know paid ads it was just like hey I found something that
I really like. I found something that my audience likes. I'm going all in. And he was close to like a million dollars in lifetime commissions when we recorded. That's amazing. The cool thing about that is Matt is better able to sell that product than the company itself because he's a user. He's somebody who has experience with it. It's somebody.
just like the person making a buying decision. And when you can position yourself as the go-to resource for that tool, and even... in a way a help desk it just positions you as again somebody who is knowledgeable about it enough to trust going through that link and going through that recommendation and also somebody who then
can get on the radar of the higher ups at that company to then create those deeper relationships. Yeah. So this leads perfectly into number 10. Affiliate marketing was number nine. Got a 10 out of 10 rating from Pat. Number 10 is... advisorships, positioning yourself as a really trusted user of the product and then getting a seat at the table here. Yes.
This isn't something that's very common, but it is and should be more common because we have, any of us creators, have some amazing, incredible superpowers that a lot of these companies would want. to get behind. It might be connections, it might be knowledge, it might be the ability to break things and see and have some foresight on a product and its market.
These are all valuable things that companies would love to have. And, you know, you could work with a company in a more consultant kind of way, but more as an advisor, there is a lot less work involved, but you can still have just as an impact, a grade of an impact. And the cool thing is I am now. advisor for 12 different companies and it feels like
in a way that they're like, they're kind of my companies, but I don't have to do any work in the companies. I just show up once a month to a meeting in general, sometimes more, sometimes there's some emergencies and I have to fly out to certain things. But in general, it's very low lift.
for being able to make the right introductions, to be able to comment on certain things and new features and kind of provide honest feedback and also give ideas. This is the kind of responsibility. Yeah, and this is on top of your affiliate relationships. On top of the affiliate relationships.
Yeah, that's like that's the cool part. And so the sort of meta hack here is like, OK, I can have some influence on where the company goes. I can offer like some feature ideas that then make it easier for me as the affiliate to sell. And so I'm making more money that way as well, which is kind of cool. Yeah, double dip. But in general, the money from advisorship.
doesn't really come in until either the company sells, gets acquired, or IPOs. Only in one of those companies do I see like a profit share come in every single quarter, but that's pretty rare. And in general, it's like a percent or less. of the company but you have these shares now okay and these stock options and or just actual stock and
You know, sometimes there's liquidation periods where you can sell those off. But in general, for the amount of work, especially if you're at that level and you like your name comes with authority and they can use that. Yeah, in your particular niche, for sure. Right. It's also just really fun. And you get.
Insider looks at things that you wouldn't have otherwise. And a few times the companies I've worked with have paid off big. I mean, I'm talking six figure checks, kind of just like, hey, guys, we sold the company. Cool. You'll see a check in the mail in a few weeks. Boom. It's like, oh my gosh. And very, very little downside. It sounds like aside from, you know, attending the board meetings or like, you know, occasionally providing your guidance and feedback.
That being said, I don't want people to think that this is easy. It does require a lot of mental lift in situations where you want to actually show up and serve. I mean, you are now part owner of a company, if you will. You need to step up and provide.
what you can provide. There have been many cases I've seen where people are advisors just because they're top affiliates and they just don't do anything and like the companies regret doing that and you don't want to be a regret for a company. So yeah, that's advisorship and a fun...
neat way to offer more value to a company and even get something big in return one day, potentially. All right. What's your rating for that one? That one would be a seven. Very good. We've got more with Pat in just a moment, including his business idea donation for SideHustle Show listeners.
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That's O-P-E-N-P-H-O-N-E dot com slash side hustle. And if you have existing numbers with another service, OpenPhone will port them over at no extra charge. OpenPhone, no missed calls, no missed customers. All right, we're back with Pat Flynn from Smart Passive Income and the author of the new book, Lean Learning. We're about to do some lean learning ourselves as we move on to round two, which is donate.
a business idea. This is something that you might start if you had more hours in the day or an opportunity you think listeners could run with. Yes. And I am not the inventor of this idea, but I've heard about it. And I was like, if I didn't have all my other things going on, I would totally do this if I was in a cash crunch for sure. So the idea is related to garbage cans.
So those of us who are homeowners or even if you're renting, you know how once a week you have to remember to take the garbage from the side of your house and put it on the front so that the trash guys can get it or else. You have a full trash can. Another week is building up. Yeah, it's such a pain, right? It's such a pain to forget that. There's a company that I saw and I can't remember where. It literally was just a passing Instagram I saw. And I was like, this is a great idea.
It is to provide a service to a homeowner or people renting that you will come on trash day and take the trash cans from the side of their house to the front. And you will be there on time to remember to do that every single time in time. and you will bring the trash cans back later that day. So a homeowner no longer needs to do that. And I think I remember seeing that people were charging like 50 to $100 a month to do this. And imagine just doing this just for your block alone.
yeah yeah even if it's like a little tiny fraction of your subdivision because there's like okay if it takes 60 seconds to do per house then times 100 houses like there's there's some time involved but imagine Once people get used to paying for it, it can be a pretty sticky recurring service. Yeah. And once a week, just your workday is Tuesday because that's trash day.
Right. And the other days of the week, maybe one of the days you are marketing and expanding your team and you're trying to go out and take over the whole world in this way. I don't know. Yeah. Or it's just limited to the amount of money you need so that you can eat comfortably or whatever it might be. I'll add another one related.
it's a trash because this this actually happened here in my neighborhood and i haven't seen anything since on trash day i got a knock on the door once and it was it was a little kid who said hey mister i saw that your trash can was broken because you know the trash
people like go violent with our trash bins and there was a crack in it and he said for $20 I can replace it for you and I was like that's it like you'll replace it for me he's like yeah so I literally gave him 20 bucks he's like okay I'll ring the doorbell in 15 minutes and show you okay and in 15 minutes he It was done. I don't know where he got him, but he went to the trash.
factory place. Again, I'm not in that world. You just borrowed it from your neighbors? You're just going to go domino effect like down the street? Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's funny. No, but I mean, they were all brand new and he got a stack of them, I'm sure, for a good price and was able to replace them. around the neighborhood, and I still have that same one.
on my black trash bin. And I was like, man, this is a great idea. And something that you could do with your kids or something that like a young teenager could do. I love those ideas because at least it's getting you started. It's not passive, but I mean, one day a week for, you know, imagine how many houses.
Instead of a paper route, I'm going to take trash out for people and make some dollars every month. Yeah, when you opened with Garbage Can, I thought you were going to say Garbage Can Cleaning Service, which has become a thing. And there's big trucks that will do it. There's obviously the...
lower overhead way to do it with just a you know pressure washer or a hose too but yeah lots of people doing that too and we even came across a guy who like started his own garbage route like people were complaining that the garbage service was
inconsistent or they were leaving trash everywhere oh wow i could do a better job as he goes and buys this used garbage truck and like starts signing up i think he like pre-sold his neighborhood so he's like didn't have as big of a upfront risk in buying this used garbage truck but um you know
trash you know figure out this like recurring problem right solve a recurring problem here's a recipe for some recurring revenue yeah amen all right round three is what i call the triple threat first aspect of this is a marketing tactic that's working right now could be in any any one of these businesses that we talked about yes so short form video in a series
is working really well. I'm actually doing this right now to help promote my book, Lean Learning. 21 days leading up to the launch, I started a mini video series. Series are great. This is where I was not... performing well before because I was just kind of randomly creating videos every single day. What random idea do I have? OK, I'll try to create it. And I wasn't doing anything on TikTok rather.
a series like opening a pack a day and seeing what I get, which is my Short Pocket Monster series, or a golfer, Brian DeChambeau. who for every day, he shot a golf ball over his house to try to make a hole-in-one in his backyard. And whatever day it was, was the number of balls he got.
And I think it was like on day 37, he hit it. Well, there's a guy sailing with Phoenix right now. He's world famous because he quit his job working at a tire company to buy a sailboat. He liquidated his 401k, bought a sailboat and is sailing from Oregon to Hawaii.
on day 19 oh yes yes I saw this yeah and it's like the whole world is like okay I'm gonna check in make sure he's safe every day in his day 20s tomorrow day 21 a series helps a person have an expectation of what they're subscribing for with some mystery behind it what's gonna happen tomorrow
Right. That's a big secret. And so for me, leading up to the launch of Lean Learning, I'm creating videos and I'm still still experimenting. I'm not getting millions of views like on my Pokemon channel, but I am seeing some views. One of the videos hit 90. thousand views of what it's like to be an author and lead into my launch on June 3rd.
And I'll continue that all the way through a week after to see if we hit the New York Times list. That'll be like the big reveal. And whether I hit it or not, like I may or may not hit it, there is a chance. But if I hit it or not, it's still going to be.
a momentous moment to kind of teach a lesson. And if we hit it, great, we'll celebrate. If not, it'll be a good lesson for everybody on, well, this isn't the most important thing. So creating a video series again daily and getting those reps in because I know daily sounds scary.
I mean, John Lee Dumas did that with podcasting, and I was like, I have no idea how you're doing that. For the Pokemon channel, I started in just doing it for 60 days, and I said, I'm just going to try it for 60 days, see what happens. By day 30, I was seeing only still a few hundred views per video, but... My editing time went from 45 minutes per video to about 12. I was able to completely master editing because I was doing it every day. I was getting the reps in.
I was also collecting data every day, 30 pieces of data on what was working and what wasn't. And by day 35, one video hit 750,000 views on that Pokemon Shorts channel. And then everything just kind of blew up and exploded from there to a point now where I'm getting invited to.
Detroit Lions games to open Pokemon cards on their field or UFC fights from UFC fighters who now are following my Pokemon channel. Like it's it's it's insane. But it happened because I showed up daily. Yeah. The creative constraint of forcing yourself to do it every day versus I just. Whenever I come up with an idea, I'll put out another short.
Right, exactly. It's almost like I'm just going to create it and it's going to be messy. And maybe, you know, I'll do another small one tomorrow and another small one tomorrow. And sometimes these things blow up when you give it that much of a chance. So short form video leading into something has been working really well, or at least even just building an audience. There was a guy.
another guy named Tim Nacky, who blew up because every day he was betting on online blackjack, which is not a great way to make passive income, by the way. I don't condone that. Do you know Colin from a blackjack apprenticeship? He called it. A hard way to make easy money. I love that. I mean, I like blackjack and it's fun, but he was betting 10 cents per follower every day. OK, so there's a natural viral loop here. Correct. And he got.
up to a million followers so he he bet at one point a hundred thousand dollars per per roll or whatever you know that's that was insane and he was able to actually generate a million dollars in profit again that's not He got lucky because it would have been very easy to just lose out on them. From what I've learned is like, even if you're counting cards perfectly, it only flips the odds to like maybe 51, 49. Like it's not a huge advantage.
Right. And you would need to go through a lot of money in order for that to seem favorable over time. Yeah. Because the less there are, the less likely that percentage is going to hold true. So again, the big idea being what's going to happen tomorrow.
What's going to happen tomorrow? Is it going to be the big loss? Is it going to be the big win? I have to I have to subscribe to figure out because people don't subscribe as a thank you for the video they just watched or the podcast they just listened to. That's a big misconception. That's like that's a light. Yeah. Yeah. That's the anticipation of what's coming next.
Exactly. And so if you can help them understand what's coming next, OK, and then tomorrow I'm going to do this or here's the series and another one's coming. people are more likely to subscribe and then over time build a relationship with you, which you can then, you know, hopefully do some amazing things with and with great power comes great responsibility. Yeah, short form video in a series. Really cool idea. We had a woman on, Jacqueline Mitchell, who...
was doing a $100 a day for a 100-day personal challenge. Like, I just got to get my side hustle butt into gear. And she ended up doing it, posted the video for 100 days. She made a little over $10,000 over the course of that. That's amazing. in the over the course of the 100 days of course she gains a following because it's a really compelling storyline and she starts opening up to new income streams
weren't even an option to her at the beginning. She's getting brand deals and UGC contracts and Amazon affiliate commission and all sorts of stuff, but just by virtue of putting in the work. So short form video in a series, that's the marketing tactic that's working right now. Let's go to number two, a new or new to you tool that you're loving right now. So I'm loving Poppy AI.
And I don't know if you've seen this. I mean, there's a ton of AI tools, right? And I don't know this. So this one is interesting because it's almost like a visual dashboard. If you imagine a visual dashboard and chat box within that visual dashboard. Well, now I can. copy paste a website, and then with a line, connect that website to this chat box. I can also upload a PDF file and connect a line to the same very chat box. I can upload five of my newsletters.
and connect those five newsletters in a group to my chat box. I can upload or connect five YouTube videos about a particular topic and put them all in a group and then connect it with a little line to this chat box, this question box. And then that question box now is reading.
into those sources that I just linked to it. Then I can say something like, please help me draft a newsletter in the style of Unstuck, which is my newsletter. It knows the style because it has now five of them connected. Using the ideas from these five YouTube videos.
And I can record a voice audio along with it to kind of explain what I'm trying to get out of it. Hit a button and then it's tied to those sources. It sees my newsletters, just creates it in an instant. Yes, you've trained it on. Here's what. a good newsletter looks like. Here's some examples of that. Right. But now make it about this new topic. Exactly. So one thing I'm trying to do to promote lean learning as well is to create a video essay. I'd never done a video essay before. So in Poppy...
I have found all these different video essays about everything from video games to broken YouTubers to whoever. And I connected them all to this chat window. And now I'm like, please give me... a proper structure for what makes a a viral video essay and based on all that that it's connected to it is now pulling from actual examples and it's even sourcing them for me so that i can learn as i go i'm not trying to just like
hey, create a script for me. I want to learn about this and then work with, again, AI as a partner, if you will, or creative utility. And Poppy is working really well. So getpoppy.ai, I think is the URL. Very cool. We'll link that one up in the show notes for this episode. And number three of The Triple Threat is your favorite book from the last 12 months. Favorite book, Buy Your Time Back by Dan Martel. I can't tell you how many people. It's like that's the most popular answer this year. Yeah.
Have they really? Wow. I'll have to let him know. He's a good friend of mine. It's got to be super impactful. It is very impactful. I think it speaks very much in alignment with what I talk about in Lean Learning, which isn't. wasting your time on learning things that don't matter, right? It's not about, like the big thesis behind lean learning is we have to get away from just-in-case learning and we need just-in-time learning. What is it that we're focusing on now?
for example, like building a garbage company. And let me just learn about things related to that. Nothing else matters except this, knowing and trusting that when you reach the next phase, that those resources will be there because...
They're everywhere now. We have access, free access to all of it. But Dan's book is great. And he's been very a mentor from afar, if you will, not just in books, but just as a person with his family and all that he's doing. I mean, he's like 50 years is like rock hard bodies, like inspirational in so many.
ways. So look up to him and happy to mention him here. Yeah, very cool. Buy back your time. We'll link that up in the show notes as well, along with Pat's new book, Lean Learning. You can grab your copy or learn more. at leanlearningbook.com. You can check that out at Smart Passive Income Podcast, smartpassiveincome.com.
Big thanks to Pat for sharing his insight. Thank you for being a beacon of positivity and integrity and inspiration for a decade plus. What is 17 years or something in the online business? Yeah, 17 years. Yeah. That's just nuts. But really appreciate you and all that you do.
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