I would like to acknowledge the Dharawal people, the Aboriginal people of Australia, whose country I live and work on. I would like to pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and thank them for sharing their cultural knowledge and awareness with us.
[00:00:39] Trisha: Hi there, everyone. I'm Trisha Carter, an organizational psychologist and explorer of cultural intelligence. I'm on a quest to discover what enables us to see things from different perspectives, and especially different cultural perspectives, and why sometimes it's easier than others to experience those moments of awareness, the shifts in thinking. As those of you who've listened to some of our earlier episodes will be aware, cultural intelligence, CQ, the capability to be effective in situations of diversity, is made up of four areas. Motivational, the drive. Cognitive, the knowledge. Metacognitive, the strategy. And behavioral, the action. And all four of these capabilities can help us operate effectively in situations of diversity.
[00:01:27] Trisha: In this podcast, we're focusing more on the metacognitive aspect, thinking about our thinking. It's called CQ Strategy. Today's guest is an old friend and colleague, and I've known Cheryl for longer than I thought, for probably almost 20 years. When we first met at a CQ facilitator training session, Cheryl has a deep background in education.
[00:01:51] Trisha: She is a doctor in education. She's many years working within and consulting to the education sector. She describes her work now as a futurist And foresight practitioner committed to exploring trends and opportunities and applying them to a local context. And she's been given the title of futures auntie.
[00:02:12] Trisha: It's a title I love and I'd love to hear more about it. What does it mean and how did you get it, Cheryl?
[00:02:18] Cheryl: Well, kia ora and thanks for having me on the podcast. Ko Cheryl Doig, tōku ingoa no Ōtotahi ahau. I am in Christchurch, Ōtotahi in Aotearoa, New Zealand, and I am placed on the land of Ngāi Tahu, the tribe or iwi of this place, and Ngāi Tuahuriri, which is the sub tribe or the hapū of this place. So, just want to acknowledge their place and where I sit.
[00:02:47] Cheryl: My future's aunty title came, a few years ago when I was training some people in futures methodologies and at the end of this community of practice, a group that had been working with me for three or four months, I had this beautiful email from one of my Māori colleagues who said, thank you for all your work, I just look at you as my futures aunty.
[00:03:12] Cheryl: And um, so that's a, that's a privilege, especially from a, from a Māori perspective, an aunty has special meaning. A special connection, and so I, uh, I asked if I could use that, and he was of course sure, and so if you look on my website, you'll see how I came to be Futures Aunty in, um, in more detail, but you'll also see what that means to me in terms of how I am setting myself up to be a Futures Aunty, which, goes with all the quirks of being an aunty, the positives and negatives, and so it just aligns with who I am and the sort of work that I do.
[00:03:51] Trisha: it's lovely. I love it. Today, I'm curious to learn more about the work you're currently doing and the impact it's having on people in the organisations that you're serving. I think the future is something that can be scary, and yet I know that isn't the way that you focus on it. I want to consider how you help people shift in their thinking to see different perspectives.
[00:04:11] Trisha: But first, the questions we ask all our guests. So Cheryl, what is a culture, other than the culture you grew up in, that you have learned to love and appreciate?
[00:04:21] Cheryl: The worldview of Māori, so I live in a country, which has been colonised by Pākehā, so I'm a Pākehā, a New Zealander, come from New Zealand, European, English, Scottish stock, sometimes known as Tau Iwi or Tangata Tiriti, so I am a Treaty Partner, and I grew up in the city of Christchurch.
[00:04:41] Cheryl: And you can probably tell by its name that Christchurch has a cathedral and it was a very English white city. I never grew up knowing anything about the history of Māori. I knew about the first four ships, which of course were ships that sailed from England, uh, to, to Canterbury and the first, the English settlers.
[00:05:01] Cheryl: And, and so, uh, I, I have come to really, Understand, love and appreciate the Māori culture as I have become more conversant with what it's about. I have more friends who are in the Māori space, but excitingly, post Christchurch earthquakes, when things were rebuilt, now I go into the city, which is Ōtautahi.
[00:05:29] Cheryl: and not just Christchurch, and I can see the manifestations and the histories of Māori alongside the Pākehā traditions, and I just love, that in the things that are happening in this city as an example of the Māori culture.
[00:05:45] Trisha: That's lovely. And, makes me feel very, hopeful that we can all be on that journey and learn more. I'm curious too, can you tell me about a time when you experienced a shift, you know, when you suddenly became aware of a new perspective?
[00:06:01] Cheryl: I think for me it was when people started having the conversations about histories, not history, and I was curious because that was not just an aha, it was a, what the heck are we talking about? And so I was not just curious, I was, maybe afraid, maybe just gobsmacked, that what I might have thought was not right.
[00:06:27] Cheryl: And so I started digging into the idea of histories and the, um, that, that, that shift when I started finding out what it had been like for the lived experience of some people, especially in the Māori space, but in other cultures, who had been in the same spaces as my ancestors, but had a completely different, not just worldview, but experience, and the pains that went with it, and so, that, that shift gave me a new perspective, and, and helped me to, uh, explore, their cultures, their histories, find out more, and in doing that, the interesting thing for me is it's helped me understand my culture.
[00:07:10] Trisha: That's wonderful. I had a moment, maybe about a year ago, when somebody was speaking about history in New Zealand and they spoke about the New Zealand wars, and I remember thinking, New Zealand wars I'm not familiar with that term. And. then realised that they were speaking about what I learned at school as the Māori wars.
[00:07:32] Trisha: And, and then, so that was a moment of shift because I realized, oh, yes, they were New Zealand wars. There were two sides fighting, you know, um, and, and it was that complete sense of how we frame our perception of history with words and with titles. And when I looked into it, there was just this complete pattern of, wars that have fought in the name of not the aggressor, but in the name of the people who they're being fought against.
[00:08:02] Trisha: So things, uh, this is especially from the English perspective, but yeah, it was one of those moments for me where I went, goodness, what is this word? And yes, of course that makes sense. Um, but it, it took a moment or two for the things to gel in my head and to realize how my perspective had been framed by that very term.
[00:08:22] Cheryl: I think that's, that's a really good example of how our education systems, our societies, help shape our thinking, and, uh, therefore our actions, and I, I think about that now in terms of the new celebration we have called Matariki, which is the Māori New Year, and that is the most profound, amazing celebration, uh, and I remember my mother saying to me a few years ago, so when did they invent that?
[00:08:49] Cheryl: It wasn't a thing when I was a, a girl. It probably was, but not in the same way because it's been rediscovered or re energised and, and in fact, some of my Māori colleagues. So Matariki is a, uh, is the, the star constellation. But for some of my Māori friends, that's not Matariki so much as what's called Puaka because it depends on where you are and, and how you view the stars.
[00:09:14] Cheryl: So I think that whole idea is like, yes, all the work that we do in this space of, of knowing who we're, and the, the cultures that we become are, um, depending on what stars we see.
[00:09:27] Trisha: Yes, exactly. I had a moment this year when it was Matariki and I had an early morning meeting with America. And so I was awake. So I went outside and I looked and I think I spotted the constellation and I had a moment of thinking about the past and the future and, you know, sort of a meditative moment.
[00:09:46] Trisha: And then I came in and I went to the meeting and I told my American colleagues, global colleagues, they're not just from America, about. You know, that it was Matariki and that, you know, that they should go and look for the constellation the next morning. And then it was only later in the day, I thought, Trisha, they're on, they've got a different hemisphere.
[00:10:06] Trisha: They don't see your stars, you know, just like duh. , but it's sort of like the things that we think sometimes are so obvious to us and not necessarily to other people, because they're seeing things from where they're at and the perspective they have. You spoke about Ōtātahi Christchurch, which is one of the, I think that's one of the reasons that we connected deeply when we first met because it's one of the cities that I feel like is home. I was married there. I went to university there. There's lots of special spots, it's quite unrecognizable now because many of those special spots were destroyed.
[00:10:46] Trisha: So over the years, the city has been hit by many challenges. There were two earthquakes, 2011, 2012, wasn't it? And the rebuilding that had to happen from that was just massive that you spoke about before. And then there was the terrorist attack in 2019, against the mosques, and just that hit the city so hard.
[00:11:07] Trisha: How did you see these random events creating shifts in people and communities over those times?
[00:11:14] Cheryl: Interesting thing for me about disasters, uh, or events of catalytic, outcomes is the way in which communities come together and they come together and act as a family and share ideas, share resources, and they did that in the earthquake, shared power, shared food, and in the mosque, the huge gatherings of people, the gathering of everything from our young people to our elders, people from different religions in Hagley Park to be with the, Muslim people and that's often what happens at the beginning of a tragedy,
[00:11:57] Trisha: Yes.
[00:11:57] Cheryl: but that Slowly dissipates.
[00:12:00] Cheryl: And so it's a beautiful time where you think, oh, if we can only stay in this place, we had, it resulted in lots of new ideas coming to the city, lots of new cultures coming to the city. Lots of pop-up events. Our, our city was made up of containers. We had a container mall. It was our shopping center in the middle of the mall.
[00:12:24] Cheryl: And so all of that. Creates energy. but It also, creates a place of uncertainty, and as we know, the brain craves certainty. And so, when things are uncertain, people have this saying, it's like, I just want to get back to normal. And of course, you can't get back to normal because it's only, it will be a new normal, uh, but it's, it's, I just want to hold on to the things that I understand and that are more certain for me. So you, you go through that initial, stage and then, that displacement. It encourages you to want to pull back, and so it's those two sort of not quite fighting against each other, but working together that makes the change really complex, and it also opens up a whole lot of histories about who we are and where we come from.
[00:13:18] Cheryl: And so those, those personal stories of grief. about people that lost their homes, of generational homes in the earthquake, and had to move, couldn't go back to their houses. The, the, the opening of past traumas and the, impact that has. So, for example, during the mosque shooting, well after the mosque shooting, one of the headlines that was on lots of, of cards that people made was, We Are One.
[00:13:45] Cheryl: And everyone was, we're in this together. And. That was true in some respects, but some of my Māori colleagues would be, would say actually we aren't one. What, what the Muslim community have experienced is horrible and we're acknowledging that at the same time we have for generations Had trauma that hasn't been addressed and so that whole opening of wounds or different world views I think is a it's been really interesting and in terms of of changing a city so that sort of resettling in the idea of of The population being quite different, uh, has helped to change the way we work together but some of our old ways of working, especially for our older population, has been difficult.
[00:14:39] Cheryl: But at the same time, it's, it's easy to be sucked back into the system because there are economic realities and you've got the countrywide system of funding and then the localized funding and the little communities that are trying to do their own thing and support each other. And then you layer on top of that, global, tensions and systems.
[00:14:59] Cheryl: It's, a really, place of Continued challenges really.
[00:15:03] Trisha: Yes, and people bringing the pains, the challenges with them, and if they haven't completely dealt with them, they're probably sitting there in lots of ways still. I mean,, those were random events and unpredictable, as you said, cataclysmic, um, and the future is made up of both random events and things that will emerge, trends maybe, things that are observable.
[00:15:29] Trisha: You are working with communities, you're working with individuals. How are you as a futures auntie preparing them, preparing both the individuals and the communities for the future?
[00:15:41] Cheryl: So one of the things that I focus on a lot is the personal futures, the, the who we are as people and how, uh, the past, present, and future are, uh, woven together as one. And so our, our worldviews, our mindsets impact on what we think might the, the future might look like, but also, uh, it's. That in turn is influenced by our experiences and our, um, our histories, our whakapapa and, and, um, what got, what's gone before.
[00:16:14] Cheryl: So the, one of the terms I use is anticipation, not prediction. And that idea is that. There are multiple futures, and so you might have a preferred one, but if you're only fixed on one way of thinking and one future, if that doesn't happen, you fall off your perch, because you don't have alternatives in place.
[00:16:35] Cheryl: And so anticipation really is the key thing that I'd be trying to build in individuals and in organizations and groups, because it speaks to the ... Being more prepared and more resilient to possibilities that might, come forward. So, uh, there are, there are big global trends, but I'm always interested in looking for the weak signals.
[00:17:00] Cheryl: The smaller, breadcrumbs of change that seem really interesting and maybe a bit bizarre or in themselves aren't anything but, uh, ... When you put those things together, they take on a new importance, and so helping people to understand all of those sorts of things, um, Helps to really flex your future's muscles.
[00:17:26] Cheryl: And that's the work that I think is most important to get people to understand that it's not all, futures thinking is not a one off thing. It's not a thing that you do every 12 months. It's not something that's just about looking for trends. It's got a whole depth to the work and the most important work is, happens in, inside your head.
[00:17:51] Trisha: As you spoke about that I was sort of. You know, thinking, so often when we're talking about ways of thinking about time, I mean, if I'm explaining some of the differences between the way different cultures think about time, then I'll often talk about, you know, linear time where people think the past is behind us and the future is in front of us and we're right in the present right now.
[00:18:12] Trisha: So we have to manage that. And the way you spoke about time was much more like synchronic time where the The past, the present and the future are all coming together and people feel that sense of the past being with them right now and the future being with them as well, which is much more, much less of perhaps an Anglo perspective and more what we think of as, as in Australia anyway, would be more of an indigenous way of thinking.
[00:18:40] Trisha: I think it's more of a Māori and Pasifika way of thinking. So when you're bringing people and you want them to be able to draw on their past and their future all together, like you say, you're not just bringing them together and going, let's set goals for the next year and here's the trends that might impact on those goals.
[00:18:58] Trisha: You're really helping them to think much more, I don't know, is it flexibly agile to be able to handle anything, not just the anticipated, but the unanticipated. So you're really working with their minds in the same way that I'm talking about shifting people around culture. You're trying to shift people in their thinking about future.
[00:19:20] Cheryl: Yeah, I think that's a really good point that, what you described in terms of we're going to look at a few trends and then that'll help us. develop our goals for next year. That's the typical old model of strategic planning. You might even go to three years. Woohoo! And, and so when people ask if I do that work, I say no, I do strategic thinking, not strategic planning.
[00:19:41] Cheryl: And so that, that idea of, you've got to know the things that are out there and what to look for or be curious in an ongoing way, that's the work of, futuring and so past, present and future, Completely interwoven in the space. It's the work of Roman Krznaric, the, the good ancestor. It's the, it's the, the Whakataukī, (saying) the Māori whakataukī, Kia whakatōmuri te haere whakamua which is I walk backwards into the future with my eyes fixed on the past.
[00:20:13] Trisha: Oh, I love that.
[00:20:14] Cheryl: And so it's, it's that, uh, we are all of those things all at the same time. And, typically models of the future can just look at. The next steps, but the next steps could be 10 years, they could be 20, they could be hundreds of years.
[00:20:33] Cheryl: And so, there are people globally that are thinking about thousands of years, even in terms of, seed banks and in different ways of, um, you know, futures library and, and so on. So I think. It's useful to frame what sort of a time span your work is, is going to be. And I often like to take people at the beginning of the journey back in time,
[00:20:59] Trisha: Right.
[00:20:59] Cheryl: And look at the things that happened then that have shaped today, because that, that has been part of the future and, and is part of the future.
[00:21:08] Cheryl: So, and then move to the, what that might look like in another. Period of time, same period of time. So in that respect, we are creating the future through our actions every day.
[00:21:20] Trisha: And our perception of what's gone before.
[00:21:22] Cheryl: Yes, and I don't, I think our perception of what, has gone before as fluid as sometimes it's a bit like a jigsaw. I've got another piece of the puzzle, or I didn't know that about my ancestors, or I was talking to someone else and they had a completely different view of the same event.
[00:21:39] Cheryl: Why is that?
[00:21:40] Cheryl: That's, that's the, uh, the, the importance of the deep listening and seeking to understand in the work that we do, sort of thinking about our own thinking.
[00:21:50] Trisha: If you have people in front of you who are afraid of the future, how do you, how do you deal with them? How do you help them?
[00:21:57] Cheryl: I think when anyone is afraid of anything, you hold their hand and walk beside them. And so, some people seem to thrive on thinking about the future and in fact they're so far in the future that you wonder if they do anything in today but you know that that whole idea of I'm afraid is Taking one small step at a time.
[00:22:23] Cheryl: And so there's a tool called the three horizons and What I like about that is that it starts with pockets of promise So when you are moving towards change, what are the small seeds of the future, the pockets of promise that already exist? So that's, that's an appreciative inquiry, positive psychology model of let's amplify the stuff that you already do and who you already are and use that as the starting point rather than trying to scare the bejesus out of someone, uh, with something that's, that's, you haven't created a bridge to get to.
[00:23:02] Trisha: Yeah, I love that. I think I do that when I'm working with people who are often moving to a different location. It's one they've never been to. So I work a lot with companies who are sending people overseas to roles where they're working within the company in a quite a different location. And sometimes people are going to places that, you know, are a bit scary sometimes.
[00:23:22] Trisha: And, you know, so I'll often to try because as you might remember from our training, that the drive component for giving the energy around dealing with people who are different to us. includes both intrinsic interest, extrinsic interest, and self efficacy. And so we want people to be interested in where they're going, um, to have that energy towards it, but sometimes they need that confidence as well, that self efficacy.
[00:23:49] Trisha: And so I'll often go So tell me about a time you've worked with somebody who is really different to you, or tell me about one of your friends who, you know, when every now and again, you just go, Oh my goodness, we are so different. And tell us about how you get on. And so that I guess is, is leaning into that practice as well, that positive pockets and, and through that process in the same way, you're probably building self efficacy about the future.
[00:24:14] Cheryl: Yeah, and it's different for each, each person and, and being there, um, as part of the journey. So, I, I run sort of, uh, what I call co labs, futures co labs, where people have a bit of a community of practice and we have regular conversations and they create networks of people who have some sort of understanding and that's about continuing the conversation when they want.
[00:24:39] Cheryl: Uh, and not having expectations that they will all be fully into Future's work, and, uh, doesn't matter wherever they, they want to be. But I see my role in the, the leading, uh, the Future's space as being the bridge. So if you think about the social capital model where you've got sort of bonding, bridging and linking and the bonding is with people like you, where it feels safe.
[00:25:07] Cheryl: Um, but the bridging is the moving out of that space and to, things that are less certain and where it's like it is cognitively dissonant like oh, I'm scared of going to a new place or Interacting in a new space and then that whole idea of linking and helping them to stretch into new spaces Becomes a critical part of their next steps
[00:25:29] Trisha: Yeah. That's brilliant. Yeah. And so they move from I'm worried about when AI might become sentient to being able to see how they can use it in their current situation.
[00:25:39] Cheryl: And also, I, I, I think it's really important that, uh, critical thinking, creative thinking are part of this work. So, if you take something like AI, there's a big hype cycle about, uh, AI. And so, everyone has their own, uh, view. and Finding out more information and being able to stand back and explore it from positives and negatives or going into the different worldviews.
[00:26:06] Cheryl: So I quite often build resilience reading into my work. And that is actively moving out of my filter bubble and all the things that social media gives me because it knows I like certain things. But we actually need to be exploring things that don't sit well with us and thinking why is that?
[00:26:26] Trisha: And what does it even mean? Yeah, just learning more about things we don't, um, experience. Yeah. So heaps of shifts people need to make, and are making with the work that you're doing. I'm thinking about New Zealand and Ōtai Tahu. Beg your pardon, got that wrong. Ōtautahi.
[00:26:45] Trisha: Christchurch, have the shifts, I think they've been through some big shifts in thinking about culture and about the relationship between Māori culture and Pākehā culture and bringing together tangata whenua, tangata tiriti, the people of the land and the people of the Treaty. How do you think those shifts have been supported?
[00:27:09] Trisha: So where do you think Things have helped those shifts to happen.
[00:27:13] Cheryl: I think Māori have done a good job of continuing their own journey and expecting that things will happen and if I think back to the start of the kōhanga reo (language nest)movement, so those, those, um, Those nests, those Māori language nests where young children, the pepe, the young babies were taught in te reo right from the beginning and that helped to research the language for parents and that kōhanga reo movement then meant that they had kura kaupapa, so Māori immersion schools or bilingual schools, and now we have got a generation of young people from those environments who actually have Māori as their first language.
[00:28:02] Cheryl: And so we can't turn that clock back, uh, and, and so I think that's been helped, um, certainly by, uh, Māori, but also by successive governments at times, and certainly government departments that have, uh, acknowledged and wrapped themselves around the, uh, the mana of the, of the Treaty of Waitangi or Te Tiriti, um, which is not necessarily the same.
[00:28:28] Cheryl: Um, so, and I think an education We have done a good job at moving ideas forward, although it's baby steps. And so, in any environment, you're taking two steps forward and then just thinking it's exciting and you're getting somewhere, and it's two steps or more back. And so, it's a constant process, and it depends on government changes as well.
[00:28:55] Cheryl: But I also look, if we take our city, for example, as a result of the earthquakes, many of our buildings were damaged, our schools were damaged, and there would be, I don't know of any schools in Christchurch that don't have a cultural narrative built into their rebuild. And so each has a story from Ngāi Tahu about their place and their unique story and their unique plantings and they've been gifted Māori names that sit alongside.
[00:29:25] Cheryl: And so that's not something that you would reverse.
[00:29:28] Trisha: No, that's right
[00:29:28] Cheryl: And so, you know, at the moment we have a government that's pulling back on, on things Māori. And to some extent, The horse has bolted, and in other respects, uh, it's hugely damaging for, for Māori, who feel not just hurt, but deeply, deeply upset, about the lack of, support for not just te reo, but te tikanga, the Māori way of working and, So, you know, it can be a time when we've, uh, regressed, but I think we also need to acknowledge the younger generation coming through and, when you see, young people who are fluent in te reo or who understand their culture, that is, Absolutely amazing.
[00:30:17] Cheryl: So I have huge faith in our young people, continuing to drive this work forward and, you know, acknowledging that, we've got polarities, here as in many other countries where there are different worldviews about, uh, what should be in, what should be out or what's woke and what's not and all those sorts of things.
[00:30:36] Cheryl: I think it's, open conversations are really important in this space.
[00:30:40] Trisha: love the bit about the future generation. I see, my nieces and nephews and I have to say, you know, that they jog my pronunciation, which as you've observed is, is a bit, uh, clumsy and I'm learning. And, um, are much more fluent and they're Pākehā. Um, but so it's, it's across society that this change is happening.
[00:31:02] Trisha: And then even the little ones who go to daycare, you know, I learned about Matariki and the names of the stars from a song that I was sung by my niece who is like, I think she was two and a half at the time. So, you know, the, learning is happening and you know that that's, it's embedded within the minds of people they've learned and so they're not necessarily gonna go back on that,
[00:31:25] Cheryl: And I think it depends on the culture you're talking about, and the country, and the history of the country. Uh, in New Zealand, the population, we've got over 5 million, people. We're getting to the stage where we're nearly up to 1 million Māori.
[00:31:40] Trisha: Right.
[00:31:41] Cheryl: And so that's, that's huge.
[00:31:43] Trisha: yes.
[00:31:44] Cheryl: and, and we're getting towards an older Pākehā society. And so, um, that's, that's, we've got a burgeoning young population that will be increasingly Māori, Pacific and Asian.
[00:31:59] Cheryl: That's going to change the face of politics. It's going to change the face of, of what we do. And, uh, our young people are going to drive that change.
[00:32:09] Trisha: I love it. Yeah. We see some similarities in Australia, but. The percentage of indigenous population, um, is much smaller, but the multicultural aspect is certainly there as well. So we have a lot to learn, I think, and a lot of changes to make. When you think of the work you've done over the years, Cheryl, what are you most proud of?
[00:32:29] Cheryl: I think I'm most proud of helping other people to lead in their futures. So, uh, I. don't really want to be leading out the front, sometimes I do, but my best work is when I'm supporting other people to do their best work.
[00:32:46] Trisha: Yeah,
[00:32:47] Cheryl: And it just so happens that my passion increasingly is in the future space. So where I've helped people to have some futures training to understand, uh, futures and foresight work, and then they have applied it to their own work or their own personal life.
[00:33:07] Cheryl: That's where I get a huge sense of satisfaction and, uh, where I think perhaps my influence is greatest. So it's not to do with corporates or big councils or, uh, in that sort of space, it's more the, the, uh, nudging the system. And so one of my other hashtags is accept the nudge. Is if you've done something with me or we've had a conversation, what will have changed as a result?
[00:33:39] Cheryl: And it may be something you immediately go and do, it may be something you just percolate on, maybe that nothing changes, that's, that's out of my control, but , just, just opens up possibilities and if I can do that even just to a few people then I think I've um, I've done my work.
[00:33:58] Trisha: Love that, yes. Love, accept the nudge as well. What's your biggest focus at the moment?
[00:34:03] Cheryl: My biggest exciting work at the moment is, connected to the work on intergenerational fairness. And so, uh, I chair a trust called Ako Ōtetahi, Learning City Christchurch, and this is all, all my work is woven. My voluntary, my, my, everything. So, but the, the, in September this year, the UN Summit of the Future is being held.
[00:34:31] Cheryl: And so one of the focuses is on future generations and how you build into the thinking globally of future generations and how their needs might be met. And so there's a group called the Pledge Network that are trying to influence in this space, and I'm just one of the small cogs in that conversation.
[00:34:54] Cheryl: And one of the parts of that is a project focused. thing on how you, uh, embed intergenerational fairness into the work of government, both local and national. And so, uh, there's a great team that I'm part of that are looking at. How you embed intergenerational fairness into the policies of, uh, of cities, uh, from an economic development perspective.
[00:35:20] Cheryl: So it's quite specific in terms of, let's just try, something really, really small and see if we can encourage a couple of cities to work in this space. So the idea of intergenerational, uh, futures. Um, again, it fits with the indigenous way of thinking, but it's, but it's, um, it's looking at the needs of those today and those of those yet to be born.
[00:35:44] Cheryl: So it's considering that the in both nature of, of that and everything. It's the, it's the, um, the leading a legacy work, and encouraging companies, Local and, national governments to explore, whether their policies are disadvantaging any generations alive or in the future. Really encouraging them to think about whether things that they're introducing now, Strengthen the transmission of inequality for, for generations, or that they restrict future choices for future generations.
[00:36:19] Cheryl: So it's obviously still in the future space, but it's, it's doing that work now in order to influence the future, the next steps of the future.
[00:36:28] Trisha: That's quite massive, isn't it? When you think about it. I mean, because you're not just talking about the generations to come. You're talking about all generations at the same time as well. So that is. That's a big piece of work. That's massive.
[00:36:41] Cheryl: It is, yeah, and I think the important part of this, I'm interested in the big piece, But I can't work in the big piece, that is not my job, or my expertise, and so all I can do is say, which part might I be able to be a little bit like a flea, small but persistent, and, making some sort of impact, and so, you know, some of the things I do.
[00:37:05] Cheryl: Nothing happens and then I'll try something else. So I think that's the real, power of working at the citizen level rather than the system level and that's really my space.
[00:37:16] Trisha: And good to recognize where you're sitting and what the space is. What was the hashtag before? Accept the nudge?
[00:37:22] Cheryl: Accept the nudge,
[00:37:24] Cheryl: accept the nudge and futures auntie, they're my two common hashtags that I use and accept the nudge is pretty much always towards the end of my presentation and, and it doesn't compel you to do anything, but in our Ōtautahi futures group we've got, the local Futures group have been, had some sort of training.
[00:37:44] Cheryl: We've got Aotearoa Futures, which is a few more people, and then Oceania Futures, which some of our Pacific neighbours and so on are doing amazing work. But locally, our metaphor for Oceania Futures is the Braided River, which is unique to a small number of places, and Canterbury is one of them.
[00:38:04] Cheryl: So the, you know, the river that's, sometimes it's in full flood, it's got lots of braids to it, it spreads out, sometimes it contracts, and that's what our network is like in the future space, is that sometimes you're right in the middle going for it, and other times you're just in the shallows, and that may seem as if you're not doing anything.
[00:38:21] Cheryl: That's all fine, it doesn't matter. When the time is right, You will come back into the river and want to know more or have something to share and there's no, there's no pressure,
[00:38:33] Cheryl: to do so.
[00:38:34] Trisha: Love that metaphor. Yeah. That's wonderful. Cheryl, you've given us so much to think about, what action would you like people to take from this? You know, what nudge? What nudge should we be accepting?
[00:38:48] Cheryl: Like I say, the action accepts the nudge.
[00:38:51] Cheryl: So, so for me, that is. thinking about the future and how you might find out more about Futuring and there's there's a ton of resources. There are lots and lots of futures tools You just need to google futures tools or foresight and you'll get a whole range of different toolboxes That's cool.
[00:39:09] Cheryl: That's that's a starting point to be curious If you want to know more about the work that I do or some of the ideas behind futures from a Cheryl Doig slash hashtag futures auntie point of view, my website's www. think beyond. co. nz and That's where I, have information about myself and the work that I do, but also there's an imminent blog post about the work I'm doing on unbounded futures.
[00:39:40] Cheryl: So, looking at a whole model of past, present, and futures all being woven together. So, um, there's some blog posts that people might like to read in that space, and often I'll link to other things that are in the space that I think are interesting. So, um. That's, that would be a good, good start because I think for me it's, it's again, moving towards the changing mindsets for the future, not just about the tools, but it's a good place to start.
[00:40:10] Trisha: So people can sign up for your newsletter on your website.
[00:40:13] Cheryl: Yes, when you get on the website, there'll be a pop up that says sign up for the newsletter. I don't spam people. In fact, it's very periodic, the newsletter, but
[00:40:25] Trisha: Always good value.
[00:40:26] Cheryl: have some, yeah,
[00:40:27] Cheryl: hopefully,
[00:40:28] Trisha: Yeah. it is. And people can connect on LinkedIn with you as well.
[00:40:31] Cheryl: Yes, just, search for Cheryl Doig on
[00:40:34] Cheryl: LinkedIn.
[00:40:34] Trisha: We'll put we'll put the link in the show notes.
[00:40:36] Cheryl: Yep, and that's, that's, that's it. That's the space I do most of my thinking other than, um, blog or, um, individual writing. So, you know, LinkedIn, you can find all sorts of comments and also links to other people that I connect
[00:40:51] Cheryl: to. So there are some great people in the future space, um, in our, in our side of the world, yeah, that people might like to look at, but globally.
[00:41:01] Cheryl: So, yeah, look for
[00:41:02] Cheryl: those.
[00:41:03] Trisha: That's great. And I will also just dig through some of the references you've made to some really helpful tools, um, to help people think. and find those and put them in the show notes as well. So really appreciate the depth, the wisdom that you've brought, which I think is what we probably think of when we think of futures auntie.
[00:41:22] Trisha: There's an element of wisdom about that, but, but also new thinking, which is great as well. So thank you so much, Cheryl. It's been wonderful to speak with you. Um, really appreciate all your insights.
[00:41:33] Cheryl: My pleasure.
[00:41:34] Trisha: Thank you. And so listeners, please, make sure that you've pushed that follow button on the app that you're listening to us on so that you can hear the next exciting episode that will come - of The Shift.