Tom Mariano (Pace) - Building Better Drills

All right guys, welcome back to the ride. Glad you can join me for this episode with Coach Tom Mariano. Coach Mariano is entering his thirteenth season as head coach at Pace University, where he's had some tremendous success building up that program. He was also AT.

Head coach at Sacred Heart University for 17 years. Uh he's had some tremendous international experience with the Hotoshone as well as now Korea Lacrosse and the work he's doing with them. He was in the MLL both as a defensive coordinator with the Ohio Machine. as well as a head coach for the Florida launch. So real good stuff in this episode. I really wanted to get in the weeds on his drill development. If you don't follow him on Instagram, I'll have that in the description of these videos.

And that's kind of how I found him. Uh a lot of those in-depth multiple slide posts that he would do almost daily, which is an incredible pace if you think about it. Uh, and he just gets into the weeds on why he's doing it.

what drills he's favoring during the fall versus the spring and that's everything I wanted to talk about, which is what we discussed here today. Also of note in this video, his work with the Hodoshone and, you know, Lyle Thompson uh all of that kind of conversation around why uh th you know, the Native Americans play the game and the spirit that they play it with as well as what makes them

uh the best on the field uh a lot of the times and a lot of that has to do with the mentality which we talked about on this episode. So hopefully you guys find some value in it. And as always, enjoy the ride.

All right, Coach Mariano, welcome to the ride. Appreciate you showing up today. I'm sure it's a as we were talking about before the episode, it's a nice day where you're at. You probably already had practice. What's happening in your neck of the woods? Yeah, no, I appreciate you having me on, Zach. It's awesome.

You know, I've said it multiple times today, like there's not a better time to be a college lacrosse player than kind of this late September, mid October. It's nice out. I mean it's the foliage, I mean it's just a beautiful time

It's a beautiful time for my Instagram feed too'cause you are posting what feels like every day, uh a list of four or five different drills. I'm fascinated and and obsessed with skill development and practice planning, all this stuff that I'm sure we're gonna, you know, get into the weeds on. But uh love that man. So what are you what are you guys doing as far as Like your progression through the fall right now. I know it's obviously been a few weeks, but let me know w where you guys are at.

Yeah, so we you know, we take a very I don't wanna say slowed down approach because in the first week of practice we had like twelve guys out of practice. Uh you know,'cause guys are getting after it and playing hard. But we very much try to slow this process Heavy on fundamentals, heavy on skill work.

heavy on development. You know, you've got your returners who know the system have been here, but then they go home and play summer league where who knows what they're doing and you know, some of our guys are doing internships in New York City and they're not able to play summer league and then you've got the freshman who are coming from all different backgrounds. So we're trying to, you know, just get everybody meshed into kind of our culture and how we do things.

And I you know, I saw something great the other day, you know, I think is you know, i the hot button topics in coaching right now is about culture and You know, I think, you know, culture at one point, you know, culture is just kinda who you are and, you know, do you spend time together where you know, I think culture has now evolved into how you do things on and off the field. That's your culture. So we try to spend a lot of time on You know, that's a daily

you know, that's a daily competition, that's a daily fight, a daily whatever analogy you want to use, it's a daily thing that we're we're constantly pushing. What are you pushing as far as the off the field kind of categories. Is it school? Is it community service? Is it or like what are those things that you're trying to hit off the field? similar things, but every coach, every program, you know, I say this all the time. I've never met a coach who wanted to lose.

Every single coach I've been around, from the national champion to the worst team in the country, they all want to win. But I think part of that key is finding out what's the the kind of the recipe for success at where you You know, you might do something different at the number one team in the country. You might do something different. But the base fundamentals, the base concepts are going to be the same. So I think for us that's kind of our approach.

But heavy you know, this is a great time of year for heavy skill work because We're not worried about the cold. We're not worried about freezing and you know, I don't look at that as a recruiting disadvantage. I think it's awesome. I think for us it is what it is, but we do know in January we're not gonna stand around a lot.

Yeah. Work have shorter practices and get'em moving. So I think right now it's like you know, I I was meeting with a kid today and I was like, Man, you should be having fun. Like this is awesome. Yeah. You know, part of a big part of you know, I think my evolution as a coach is I don't get caught up in a kid throwing the ball away in a drill where he's gonna get a hundred touches in eight minutes.

It's unrealistic expect every touch to be perfect. Now we want the the concept, the attitude, the effort, we want that to be perfect. But the execution is not gonna be perfect. If it was, this would be easy. But so many of these guys.

I threw the ball away or my big line is well how many goals did you score today? Oh coach, if you can count how many goals you had in our practice and you're an offensive guy, that's not a good thing. The answer should be I don't know, I can't I can't keep track, coach.

It's amazing the amount of individual work you can get in the fall as compared to, you know, the throes of spring when you're just game planning and teamwork and schemes and all this stuff, man. Or are you coaching individuals in the spring a lot?

We we still try to do that as much as we can, but the reality of the games are the reality. I actually this is probably my favorite time of the year. I love the games. You know, I think it's great for the players. You know, we've got too many coaches who are like, I'm competitive. What are you doing?

on Saturday, one o'clock, you're standing there. Yes, you're coaching, but like to me this is the competitive juices for me of helping these guys get better so that when we come in the spring Because I know we're gonna spend you know an inordinate amount of time on film and game plan and the scout reports and sometimes you question why you're doing it, but ultimately we know why we do it because you want to give your athletes the best

opportunity to compete. And you know, I think for us, and you know, I didn't answer it before but I'll answer for you now. Us our model is the person student. You know, I've done many different formulas of that, and I think I've tried to break it down to the simplest term. How can we make you better as a person, as a student, and a player? And you know, I've had kids who graduated here as three-time Americans and the highest salary, starting salary in pace history.

They had a great career. I've also had kids who didn't start one game who are now lawyers. They had a great career. I've had kids who are starters who maybe didn't have a great career because they they underachieved. They they let distractions get in the way. So the the end result of this is that every single kid that plays here had a great experience.

Enjoyed the process and they got better. They left here, you know, as a better on and off the field. I think that's the key. So a lot of what we do has evolved into. And I think, you know, it took me some time to be okay with throwing the ball away, to hitting a goalie in the chest, like

You know what,'cause we're gonna do it in the game. Do you remember a time where your model switched or were you always kind of thinking in that model of, Hey, let me look at the person here first and then, you know, transition down? No, I think that I spent a lot of my career, you know, trying to win lacrosse games and trying to be a lacrosse coach. And I think to you know, in in the reality I look back, I failed at that and we didn't win a lot of.

Now, I don't think that's all the blame on me, but I take as I'm the coach, I take a lot of that. That blame should go to me. That's on me. Now. You know, that goes to recruiting better players, kids who care more, who are competitive, who wanna win, who wanna do the right things.'Cause everybody talks a good game but they don't back it up.

I think for me it was kinda, you know, at the end of my time at Sacred Heart where they didn't want me there and I did not want to be there. I didn't want to coach college across. I was done with it. I was done with it. I was burnt out. I was tired. I i you know, it was just

When you drive to work and you coach college across and you don't want to be there, that's not good. And that's why I tell young coaches, if you're play coaching at a place where you don't enjoy it and it's not a great experience, go do something else.

'Cause this game you know, it's the you know, at the end of the day, right? The medicine game. There's supposed to be love and care and healing and power in this game. And I think for me I looked at different things and different job opportunities and jumped into coaching the MLO to a Howl Machine with Bear Davis, which, you know.

I mean I'm kind of a sucker. I mean my you know, I graduated in May in college and in September I was division one head coach at twenty three years old for four thousand dollars. And you got these kids now who their first job they're making fifty, sixty grand right off the rip and I'm sitting there like, Wow, I did this backwards. I think

You know, I wasn't even sure if I was getting paid when I went to the How Machine. I certainly know we had to play in Canada and I lost money expediting a passport. My wife wasn't happy about that. But I think what was awesome is I walked into a locker room of some of the best players in the world. And they actually listened to what I had to say, they believed in what I had to say.

And I think as a coach it was like rewarding and, you know, I kinda took a step back and had, you know, a lot of road trips in the MLO and different you know, you're going to Hamilton, Ontario and you're sitting at a table with some of the best players in the world and

They're telling you things they loved about their experience, what they hated about their experience, and I'm sitting there like, man, if I'm gonna do this, I this needs to be fun for the players, but it needs to be fun for for me, for the coaches. You know, fortunately I had a really good friend who worked here at Pace and just asked me to come down and meet with players and go through the process with them and it wasn't really an interview. And all he said to me is like after this, if you

you know, if you're interested, we'll move forward in the process. If you're not, I appreciate you coming down. And I met with a bunch of kind of, you know, players who were just hungry and passionate They wanted to play lacrosse and they wanted to win. You know, one of my first question was I asked them, you know, how many games y is this team gonna win next year? And guys are looking, well, maybe we can go five hundred, seven and four.

And I looked at him and said, Why why aren't you trying to be undefeated? At least try. Because if you're not trying, you're not gonna get there. You know, you gotta have that belief and Fortunately we didn't have many guys. I mean uh honestly when I first got the pace they handed me a roster and I kinda laughed. I was like, Oh, this is the recruits? And they're like, No, this is the team.

We were one of the worst teams in the country and had nobody there and I'm arguing at D A D that I would bring in thirty-five kids my first year and they didn't have over thirty kids. And you know and also two of the other things every coach wants to win and every coach works hard. But they also need resources and support and environment. And there were some things that took place at Pace that, you know, we knew, you know, it's a great education, really good job.

Didn't have a locker room. Well they were changing all that. You know, I was coming in to help build the turf and all this great things were happening. But the key was I coached a bunch of seniors who were so hungry and passionate. They did it anything. So we you know, we were playing teams that they lost by fifteen to twenty the year before and we're losing in overtime.

A year later, mm same kids. And I think you know, it just made me reflect on man, this is so much about kind of trust and belief and You know, passion for this. If you don't have that, you can't be successful in this. Now having that doesn't mean you're going to win. Yeah. But you're gonna lose if you don't. So to you know, I know that was a long winded answer, but I think that was a seriously philosophical question. It was a mind shift and I think it really came down to Zach.

In three minutes, in three hours, in three months, in three weeks, in three years, am I really gonna care about what just took place? And use the answers you're not even gonna remember what you're mad about.

It's very interesting that you went the route of it's about the person when you're also so technically I w I guess apt on the skill development piece. That that combination is super important. And not trying to cut you off, but I think you bring up a great point. But isn't that life? Isn't that life for these young men that we're working for? And you know,'cause they're gonna get hired somewhere like like a pace, there's a lot of finance accounting.

There's no second chances at that level. There's no mercy. It is cutthroat. If you don't do your job, You get fired for the Like they're throwing you out the door and taking your stocks and taking your retirement. Like you're done.

So why not? Let's teach these guys from from the get-go the attention to detail, you know. Dot the I's cross the T's that the little things matter. But at the same time, we're also teaching them and trying to get them to understand it's not that big a deal. Care about the things that matter.

Yeah. Because we you know, we've had we've had kids that have gone through some s tragic adversity while they've been here and we still have kids dealing with that. You know, we've kids going home for funerals and wakes and everybody, coaches, players But man, you gotta love where you are and you know

I say it all the time, I don't need to be the smartest coaches uh out there. There's plenty of great coaches before me who figured this out and have come up with some ways to do it. The whole key is to be you and be authentic and put your spin on. And I think that, you know, players will see everybody says this younger gener generation is different. They completely are.

They care more than a lot of generations did in the past. They care about their education. They care about, you know, who they are in the weight room. They care about what they eat. You know, you go out to dinner with these kids, they don't drink soda. You know, I grew up with guys who, you know, they barely lifted. And they were great players. They didn't lift in the offseason. They didn't have the greatest.

social and eating habits and health and eating sleeping right and normatics and the just the the amount of care that these kids have. They really care about who they are. You know, we're We're taking a recruiter out on like a Saturday and there's like freshmen in the library. We had a Tuesday where there was no school here'cause one of the holidays. You go in the library, there's freshmen in there. We actually have an i we have an issue right now in our team.

That our kids are putting too many hours in the study area. Who, you know, if you'd asked me that over my thirty two career, thirty two year career. Uh you know, there's many times I mean y you're begging kids to go to study hall, like hey if you don't go to study, or you're suspending kids, kicking to a team they get a study hall, and I got a group of kids here who are going above and beyond. Got it. All right. down into a couple of different, you know, parts of the episode. So

I wanna focus in on some of this player development and and and things like this. One of the things I noticed and got my attention when I was looking at across that Instagram feed. Obviously again, if you do not follow Coach Mariano, he's a great resource for those of you that are looking for practice drills and not only just a video or not only just text, it's a combination of both and kind of why you do it.

But one of the things I keyed in on is that you're coaching football too. And I really went down the rabbit hole uh on football last year, specifically defensive backs and how they're taught footwork and how crazy they get on the details, it that often isn't something that's taught like that in lacrosse. But I'm interested the carryover from other sports as you look at it as a as a teacher and coach.

Well, I think that you know, listen, going back to what I said before, right, you look at you look at Division One college football. I mean you ever look at the staff picture at some of these Power Five programs? They've got more staff members than, you know, college across teams. And there's some you know, College Across is big right now. It's inflated rosters and they still have more staff. So they they are doing it right social media wise.

They're doing it culturally wise. I look at like a friend brown of Syracuse is doing some cool things. I mean you just Go down the list, you look at technical how You you wanna get blown away? Go sit with your football staff at any level and watch them if they're any good at this, watch them break down the progression of a play, a simple little handoff up the middle through the two hole.

and the breakdown of where the right guard's left foot is and the left tackle's right foot and the hand placement, the running back movement, the way the you know, which hip the quarterback turns on. And then you go to watch a lacrosse practice. I don't think we need to be that in depth, but I think we do, and I think many of us have brought that to the game. Because, you know, when I listen, when I first got into this, there was a handful of schools that really cared.

That's when I love and you know, this the the seventies alumna are yelling at some of these dividends, Well you know, we won a national championship in nineteen forty two. That's when there was like twenty school drivers. Yeah. Now you've got I mean look at the You know, and I'm not just talking division one, division two, division three, the amount of resources, the amount of full time coaches, assistance. When I first started doing this, there was very few full time head coaches.

Or they had other duties. Now it's like people have a full time head coach, two full time assistants. They might have a director of ops. They got full time strength coach. They got analytics. They got video people. So that has now created a an emphasis for the coaches to really break this down. I still think we need to keep

kind of the creator's game in this. But yeah, there is some details on a question mark. Where you you know, d how you drop your hips, where your hand placement is, your head movement, defensively, how you approach the ball. Yeah. I I I'll be honest, I don't think we were a lot of us were great when this first started. I think it was you went out and you scrimmaged and you played and if you had good players you got better and all these coaches like no it wasn't like

the best teams in the world in the eighties. You know, Syracuse made a living on rolling the ball.

Yeah, I'm wrestling with that now. W when it is it too far, right? And there's a lot of that when you go into practice planning. I see a lot of your drills and one of the questions I have for you is on the uneven work versus even work, how much of that stuff are you doing? How much small sided verse

Kind of six on six or you know, five on five. All that stuff is it's a puzzle that you have to put together for yourself. But I'm super interested in how your thought process goes when you're creating these practice plans. You know, so I think it It's, you know, let's face it, right? There was a time where many of us didn't have practice plans and we just went out and okay, we're gonna do six on six for forty five minutes, we're gonna do one on one.

You know, I think practice plans across America are very well thought out and you know, I I spend a lot of time with my staff, like, hey, what do you guys need? Okay, coach, we need this, we need this and then I thought all on paper, then I look at how can we plug this in so this is A a good transition from players. It's comfortable. You know, you don't want to do, you know, fifty straight minutes of just banging on people because you're not gonna laugh.

Mm. You know, a and I think the analytics of this, right? The p you know, the high low days, the performance, I think there's some people out there who do tremendous work and You know, I've always looked at as a coach. You're a fool if you're not paying attention to these trends. And you know, I've got players that if I said, hey, we're gonna go s i and like many teams out there, we're gonna go scrimmage for two hours, they'll go full tilt for two hours.

Every single day. By Wednesday you won't have a team. So I think it it's the coach's jobs to put a plan together that helps them, you know, like we haven't practiced since Thursday, so we didn't do a lot of banging today. We did a lot of skill work and a lot of emphasis And as the week goes, we'll build up and we'll layer it.

Um and you know our our stuff today was kind of uneven. It was a two v one, three v two, four v three and kind of a man up look, and then we did a a five v four kind of man-up. Diagram. Then we did live Manutman Down for the first time. So it was like so you might look and say, hey, you only went live for twelve minutes, but it actually was like 32 minutes that we did Manutman Down. It just wasn't pure Minutemen down.

And in you know, some of those reps are very controlled and some of those reps are very little very little coached. But we're watching and evaluating in You know, in some of these drills, you're like, okay, that's a man up player, that's not a man up player. Oh, that's a man up player, should probably go to man down.

How do you go about coaching the players within the drills? Uh like if the drills going on, are you pulling them off to the side, are you kind of at any point stopping and talking to the team or like how do you go about And you know, I'll be honest, if there are some drills I don't give them any parameters and I just kinda let them rock and I want to see how they figure it out.

And then there's other drills kind of following the CLA method and so all this cool stuff that's going on right now in sports where we're very specific in what we want. So the two areas that we'll stop it is. The parameters area, if they're not understanding the parameters, then that's on myself and the coaches to explain that better. So we'll stop it and say, Hey K we clearly have some confusion here.

And then we also would do that in the play, just kind of the the free play, where we might say, Okay guys, I you know We're three V two and you're running to the bleachers and you need to be pinching the pipe, let's get back on the same page. But it's a lot of pulling guys aside and I think a big a big part of our program, I think anybody who's come to our program has always noticed the expectation from our players to help each other.

From the top down. From the top down. And from the bottom up, everybody. You know, if a freshman sees a senior, you know, hey. You know, here maybe if you do this, you do that. And it it's not a dicky thing, it's not a I'm busting your chops thing, it's I see something I can help you. to get better at. So I think for me, you know, let's face it, if you have three, four coaches and you have fifty plus fifty to sixty guys in your field, you can't coach everything. You can't see everything.

But the players are standing right there, so oftentimes I may get on Johnny, hey you can help him out'cause clearly he doesn't know what he's doing in that. So I'm kind of correcting, I'm coaching two things. I'm coaching kind of culture, behavior, but I'm also coaching expectation instincts.

Going back to the uneven versus even piece, I've heard it debated so many different ways. I I listened to a few basketball podcasts weekly as well and the coaches on on in that sport are kind of torn. You hear some guys are like, we play a lot of four V four or we do a lot of, you know, full team stuff.

And then you hear guys that are like, No, we do failure drills, I guess that's what they call it when there's a breakdown in defense, but we do a lot of failure, you know, breakdown uneven stuff all the time. I'm interested in how you look at that both uh just generally, but also when you're talking about building a drill or or like drills throughout a practice, how much of it is uneven versus even?

I think it'll Zach, it'll depend on the day, the time and the week, kinda where we're thinking. Depends on where we're at. Um you know, I I think it you know, I don't know if you saw like the Athletic had a great kind of CLA article. I mean it was great. It was great. You know, I think that You know, when places like the NBA and NFL, especially I I'm a big believer in like NFL, like when the NFL is doing something.

That means it's really good because that business is all about money and winning. That's they're not going to do anything that's going to affect. Going back to that topic that we had with the football, it's like they're gonna break it down to the minutiae because there's a guy making two million dollars or not, based on how well he can break this footwork down.

Well, I you know, and it doesn't matter what level, but I was just in with our football coach and he showed me a play where like there was one simple little blocking mistake and the quarterback gets hurt. That's a major effect on your game, on your season and let's face it, right? You look in the NFL man when they're starting, you know, you look at the Cincinnati Bengals, you know, people are touting them to win the Super Bowl and now they're touting them for the number one draft pick.

All because of one guy. And let's face it, their line isn't very good and they're not Spending money and now their l line coach is great, but I think to your point, right? I think if these guys at the highest level who are making you know

We've got some guys making money in our sport. It's nothing compared to what they're making in football and basketball. Like it's not even close. Our highest paid guy there's coordinators in division one who make more than our highest paid division one head coaches, division two, like So like they're doing some things and let's face it, right, they break it down to the smallest

You know, why aren't we? And I think that, you know, a po I'm a big believer in uneven because it is less wear and tear on the body. You can accomplish you know, let's face it, right? La Crosse is about finding the two. Offensively it's about fire. If you can find the two on one, you're probably gonna score. Defensively you can defend the two on one you're probably gonna score.

And listen, if two on one defense all you gotta do is hold it for one or two seconds, one pass, and if your teammates aren't there then you're in trouble anyways. You got bigger. So it really is break broken down. And can you accomplish that in six-on-six? Of course you can. Can you accomplish that in a scrimmage? Of course you can.

But in an eight-minute, you know, two-on-one, three v2 drill, you get, I don't know, a hundred reps. In that six v6 rep, you get ten. How many do you get in a full field scrimmage? Three? Four? And you know, I I leave it up to the analytics guy to figure out the math. I'm not a math major, but we all know the answer. You g in a small sided, you get a ton more. We have a you know, one of the professional I can't keep up in pro soccer. One of the, you know, second or third tier pro soccer

These guys are talented. I mean, I can't understand a word they say. It's a a million different languages, guys from all over the world. They're like they're good. I've never seen him go more than half field. Yeah. So I mean soccer's where I first saw the phenomena of the old sport transitioning to the new sport when they went to all these small sided games in the twenty years ago. I know you'd ask me and I'm sure you'll get to it and I'm I'm jumping the gun for you.

You know? I definitely feel like, you know, I think sometimes as coaches, you got a guy like Tony Seaman who's invented a million things. Some of these guys have done I don't know if I've invented too many things. I think we do something unique, but like I'm gonna put my foot down and say like the whole rondo concept came for me one night at two AM. What's the rondo concept? Let's hear it.

Just it's really the ability to manipulate your body and movement in kind of small sided uneven constraints. You know, two V ones, three V twos, four V threes, and I'm sitting there years, I mean this is a while years. It's like 2 a.m. Um, you know, it's like once again, how can I win a lacrosse game? How can I help these guys get better? And I see these soccer drills.

Where they're doing these little 3v2 touches and there's like three or four games going on and the games are mingling together. And I'm like, one, I mean I always look at like I watch soccer guys in practice, they always look like they're having And they're certainly always cursing each other out and talking trash, but they always have involved.

And I'm like, that looks like a fun way to teach stick skills, defensive on ball approach, defensive off ball approach, you know, let's face it, right? Most good players are good with Not all good players are good off ball. And there's some kids who couldn't dodge anybody. They can't dodge me right now, but they can score goals all the way.

So how can we find some drills that give them ability to learn how to get better at that? And I think for for me, kind of the Rondo series and that's you know, it's been a soccer thing for decades. But I don't think it got really popular'til like twenty years ago.

And really in the last ten and you know and if you're paying attention to soccer, they probably spend more money than F L does. Like these Man U and Red Bull and you know, like They're not gonna do anything that's gonna be dumb and not help their players get better, which helps their bottom line.

And I'm like, well, why is every soccer team? Then if you look at hockey teams, right, majority of their drills, they put two cages out on each side and they go side to side in very short two V two, three V two And quick touch is decision making. All those things are important, Lacrae. We're just not getting you get it, yes. Do you get it in full field drills? Yes, you do, 100%. But to me, the reps matter. The reps matter and how you how can we replicate in a short period of time as many reps?

So uh that's where I really shifted heavily towards, you know. Kind of for stick work. And we do, we do all the traditional stick work. We don't do too many line drills. We do those kind of on game day. But in a practice environment, we don't do too many line drills. You know, we'll do a keep away series. I mean, I work with you know third graders. They love doing keep away, they love warming up, playing tag. I didn't necessarily think of that. You and Tag to do a warm-up?

You know, that came from I saw somebody on social media years ago doing it. I started doing the kids and they're like, Coach, can we warm up like that every time? They're excited to be at practice. And that's the whole point, right? Create an environment where people wanna be there. They're enjoying it. Because what we do is hard. This is hard. This is hard. It's hard on these kids.

They're you know, everything they're dealing with academically, socially, trying to get a job, trying to, you know, have a social life, trying to have a relationship with their family, friends, and they're getting pulled in a million ways. You know, everybody's got a different opinion.

You know, every coach in America, right, every parent thinks their kid is the best player on the team and they're being pulled in different directions and you know, we want to get'em all moving forward for the same goal, the same belief. Does Rondo stand for anything? Like is it an acronym?'Cause I know you have the reps concept as well, right? Yeah, no, I I haven't seen I don't think the Rondo stands for anything. I think it was actually

I knew this at one point, but uh uh uh you know, my brain can only handle so many things at one in once in it, like I kinda have to cycle it out. Um it's really just one of the guys who created. Okay. Um it was kind of one of those like, all right, I saw it, I dug into it, and then I just kept looking into and and it's like the application of it. How can we apply it to LaCroix?

And don't get me wrong, people were doing keep away and all that stuff, but the way they did keep away was really just keep away, like monkey in the middle. You know, Rondo is just so much more than just keep away or monkey in the middle. You know, even in two V ones, like you know. Could be me, you and a guy standing in the middle, we can make a monkey in the middle. That's not what we want because that's not lacrosse.

I think two V ones of all of the uneven stuff I probably has done the least. If I had to guess. Like a lot of coaches, d you know, half sided three V twos, four V threes, fast breaks, all the the two V ones. You're saying basically should people might benefit from doing more two V ones'cause you can teach those concepts. What are you teaching in those from the offensive and defensive side?

Well, I think both, right? Quick reactions, quick reads, make the right decision. I mean defensively, you know, we did a drill a couple of weeks ago which a lot of people reached out and it's funny I did it with some like kids in a training session.

And believe it or not, so it was like we had a line at X and a line on the wing and the defender kind of stood in a crease and there's a quick two V run from one pipe we alternated to the other, so we went kind of right side, left side, like kind of back and forth.

Like this side's going and this guy's ready, so as soon as the rep's done, he steps in and we go and it it's it's literally offense is can I get somebody to play me if nobody plays me, I turn and score? Like pretty simple, but we've all seen people screw that up. So I did it with some kind of high school guys. It was funny, the kid on the field who loved it the most was the goalie. Yeah. But it was amazing.

He stuffed kids like it was Thanksgiving dinner. It was it was wild. And that was kind of my point in the drill, like, hey, there's nothing worse than you get into a live situation and you're two V one and all you gotta do is turn the court a little fake and snap it and the goalie stuffs you. You know, that's a big thing for the defense. And it it's great for the goalies, it's great for the defenders, it's great for the offensive guy.

And you know, we also for us we do have guys we'll in Edgewell we will have defensemen play offense. We'll have attackmen play defense.'Cause they're gonna y you know, in a riding situation, in a clearing. You know, if you get stuck on defense, are you disaster? Or can you actually, you know, play a little defense because you're paying attention? But it's, you know, have they seen that before? Have they repped?

And then we did, you know, we went from the kind of X you know, wing and kind of a little of a high spot, kind of a midwing to a high wing, just attacking that side. How can we draw the And it's funny I say a lot of times two things I say to our young goalies, just shake it off, you're gonna get scored a lot.

Don't worry about it. You're supposed to get scored on. It's crazy how many say like our goalies right now are stuffing people left and right. You know, they're playing well. I don't know if we're shooting great right now. Some of the goals get a little rattled by it, but it's not a big deal. That happens in a game five times, you're not going to save it five times. We hope you can, but the elite guys can. But even then, the elite guys, if it's two for five, three for five, you're like that.

Thank you. But but but how do guys react to that? How you know some of these drills we do tennis balls and that's a whole nother parameter. There's kids who have great stick skills. And then you put a tennis ball in the hand, they can't catch a thing. They can't throw a pass. They're like ah We just did a tennis ball, just shooting drill where you're kind of crossing the crease right in front of the goalies. The goalies love the tennis balls, man. Just high rep.

obviously don't care about getting hit and they were we were just going and they loved it. I think, you know, our goalie is wear the guardian helmet in practice. We try to do a lot of tennis balls. Um and then the big thing is like if you hit the goalie then you can play goalie the next rep. That's kind of like goalie's our rule. And you know, those guys don't want to play goalie. Yeah. Is there any area of the field that you felt like over the last ten years you've shifted

to doing more drills simulating that environment like wing or you know back of X like has that shifted over time? Have you noticed that at all? I think if you look at if you look at the current college game, right? With a lot of people are tacking from that kind of low to mid with a two man game. Uh you see that in a lot of offenses. They're kinda two man wing over here and they're doing some different things off ball.

That wasn't the case necessarily ten years ago. You know, I think the you know, one four one was pretty popular and kind of wing and mirror where now it's evolved to that heavy kind of two man game on the wing. You know, I think that you know, the problem that you know a lot of people have in a college game is there's just not that many attackmen that can really dodge against these defensemen in the way they're allowed to swing sticks and play great defense and big strong athletes.

Um you know, and I think you even look at the best teams, like very few teams have three dodgy and attackmen. Yes. I think most coaches be happy if they have a great dodger, an X guy, secondary guy who can be a slasher and hope, and then a third off. I was talking with Anthony Kelly on the last episode and I was like, man, you know, I was looking at some of y'all's games'cause he coaches the the Redwoods and you guys played the Denver Outlaws and you had to coach against or somehow scheme up

Defending Kavanaugh, Dylan Malloy, and Brennan O'Neal. Actually not Dylan Malloy, it was Bernhardt. I'm like, how do you do that? How do you how do you defend against three g three attacking? Because not many teams do. Not many teams do. Well the great the great thing is only one ball. There's only one ball. You know, and I think you just try to try to limit touches and l you know you want to limit quality touches.

You know, you it gets to a level where some of these guys, if you let them get to where they want, yeah, yeah. You're cooked. How are you not letting them get to where they want? Are you denying the ball? Are you pushing them earlier to not get to that spot? Are you cutting off the ball? Yeah, I think there's different schematics, right? There's how you approach the ball, there's how you play the ball, there's how you slide to the ball.

There's how you know, the you know, the team effort to get there. Um, you know, when you get to that pro level, right, it it it's It it's not about stopping people. And listen, there's some games where it just doesn't go right for them, but most of the time it's about if you can limit them the look that they want, they're probably not going to be as successful. But if you let them get hot, I mean that's why you see in the pro game.

Sometimes they're very low scoring and all of a sudden people explode. And that's because typically they're getting their sticks where they want and they're hands free and they're You know. And you know, these are the best goalies in the world and s you know, at times they look awesome at times they're getting shelled because you letting you let these guys get to where they want. It is not fun for anyone.

I've got a couple more questions here on this this skill development piece. Um let me make sure I'm getting these right. So I I'm looking at The the drills, you you do you do a fantastic job of melding the offensive and defensive side. Obviously being a head coach that that helps, but I see a lot of both in the Instagram stories where if I'm following a D coordinator, I'm getting a lot of D stuff.

In these small sided drills or just coaching in general, d what do you notice about the habits you have to teach on the offensive versus the defensive side? Well, I think right, it it it it's kinda all I mean lacrosse is great. Like you know, ball sports or about the ball.

You know, lacrosse is about the ball. So the offense, you know, if they're doing the job, they're gonna put it where the offense is gonna have the most advantage, the biggest threat. And then you know the flip side of that is the defense. has to help get the ball where it's the the least advantage. So I think it's that kinda yin and yang of the offense and defense and I think

I think our polls do a really good job right now. In you know, we we've got a lot of guys back who've played a lot of minutes for us and You know, they understand the concept like, hey, if we don't stop the ball, they're going to s get a quality scoring opportunity. So let's make sure we stop the ball.

And then we've got to continue soft throwing. Well, we have to move and rotate. So I think the the the great thing about these small sided draws from, you know, I think sometimes early on we did a lot of this. I think the defensive guys felt like, man, the offense gets all the advantage. Yeah, probably. But I tell you what, when they get stops they let the officers You know, hey, you're three V two, you should score every time. Hey, you didn't score, hey you They let him have it.

And you know what? That's okay too.'Cause that's going to happen in the game. But I I think it's equal. I think that you know, listen, are there some drills I think one hundred percent are more defensive minded? Like yeah, I mean we'll do some drills where you double the ball and it's a one v one on the outlet and that guy's gotta work and get open and he's gotta split the double and the other guy's gotta get open. Three v one on the ball. Those aren't easy. That's brutal.

You know, doing a four V four keep away in a tight box. is hard on the defense. It's really hard on the offense. Mm-hmm. Especially when you take away that they can't score and the parameters of that drill and the defense knows, Hey, we just gotta go after them and beat the crap out of them and keep them from getting the ball. But then all of a sudden you do that same four V three, you know, that same drill and a four V three keep away. Now the advantage shifts to the offense.

But it's funny the defense doesn't always lose. So I think it's equal. This obviously changes at the college level where guys are a little bit more experienced, but how do you feel about layering the two V one, three V two, four V three concepts. Obviously there's the two V two two V ones in a three on two and things like that and on down up the line.

How do you think about teaching that or do you just throw guys in and they start to understand the uneven? Or do you really get down to the nitty gritty and try to break down a uh they should understand a two V one before moving on to a three V two? Well I think one thing I've always tried to do, right, whether I'm working with uh you know, in the past a pro team or working with the first grade team, we're gonna do some of the same drill.

We're gonna teach the same concept, the same fundamentals. Now, the pro team, the college team, an elite high school team, they're gonna look better than like a beginning first-grade team. They're gonna look way better. And the coaching standards are gonna be different. But you you look at box, right? You know, I think they do a wonderful job of teaching kids how to move and how to pick and how to get open off ball and you look at the the amount of box players that are dominating lacrosse.

mean I don't know, is there a better player right now in the world than Jeff T? Like You know, is he big? Is he fast? I don't know. But I tell you what, then not a coach in America wouldn't want him on his team. And you look at a lot of the box drills, they teach picking with the two v one. Well why do they do that? I think probably the mistake I made is like we're gonna go two V two and T

And it should becomes like a 1v1 and a 1v1. It's not a two v two. And then the picking's not correct. They're not getting inside angle. They're not getting to the back pocket. They're not stepping to the middle. I mean, whatever teaching parameters you have. Sometimes go into the small side of uneven and for the defender, hey your job is to worry about the ball. Or your job's to worry about the off ball guy. It's teaching, you know, kinda

The little bit of breaking down the parameters, but I uh I saw that in box right away. You're looking at box drills where, you know, a lot of times when they layer in teaching a two man game, they start two v one. Two V O to two V one, then two V two. Where I think a lot of us probably at one point like you went right to two V two. Yeah.

And then you're having frustrated then you were frustrated and like yelling at the kids, Oh go run, you don't know what you're doing. It's like, no, coach, you're you're the idiot. So how are the they're they're teaching the two V one via the the one defender and they have the offensive guy come in and then Based on whatever that action ends up happening, they they just played.

Why don't people in lacrosse score on give and go every time they touch it? Like you know, soccer, hockey, give and go, left and right. One touch, boom. Because we don't teach it in kids and and it and it's honestly it's not cool. Even though I'll tell you what, you see a pretty g give and go. I don't know if there's anything better in a game. And usually, honestly, guys are hammering that behind the back anyway.

'Cause of the angle, you know, throw it down the alley, I cut and I catch it, go behind the back. Like you're going on Instagram reel. You're going you're you're going viral. That's a not for a pick and roll, yeah. You know. All for like a give and go. But I I just look at you know

Just look at Box and man, the way they manipulate the two V one like You know, some of the guys I've got you know, the Hoden Shawnee guys, some of the native guys I've gotten friendly with who I still talk to this day.

You know, we kind of are running joke. You know, that's kind of there's like white lacrosse and then there's like the native lacrosse. I'd love to break down that difference. Like you spent I don't know how many. Yeah, you it's not the same. How do they coach it? Well one, you know, they grew up in box with thirty second shot clock, so they have no fear. They don't care. You know, American kids are so like, Oh, you know, Club Lacrosse, I gotta win this

The sixth game in a tournament, this big tournament, when I'm in fifth grade, like no one cares. But the parents care because they're spending all this money. I get all that. Where like in box, they're playing in the you know, these qualifiers and provincials and you know, playing the game the right way. But I think that's thirty second shot clock for them and talking to those guys, they have no fear. Two seconds left they're gonna

Where you look at Americans, they're like catching first of all they catch out in front. They're like squeezing their stick. They're so afraid to make make mistakes. And I think the Canadians and the Native guys, like, they don't care. I mean some of the things they do.

one handed around the world bet I mean, like I said, you you know, I I got a chance to coach Lyle and be around some of these guys like I've tried to explain to people, you know, coaching Lyle Thompson c is one of the easiest things, the hardest thing to do in the world'cause it's like all right, give Lyle the ball, uh you gotta figure out what to the other foot just get out of his way but make sure you're cutting off ball

And is he gonna turn it over once in a while? Is he gonna run through a triple team once a while? Sure. But then all of a sudden like like Jeff T between the legs and you know I think Tommy Schreiber is at that level and you know, I do think you look at some of these American you look at what like Joey Spellina's doing in box and some of these guys are going up there and they're they're having great summers playing box. It's no no coincidence they're doing great on the field.

Tell me more about coaching Lyle, man. He was one of I he's probably a lot of people's favorite player, but I was n near college age around the time that he really came out and was just balling out with Albany. Wha what was that like? You know, I I personally think Lyle is one of the best people he could ever be around. He doesn't say a lot.

You know, I think early on he didn't talk to me much. We didn't have much relationship. I think as we coached more and spent more time, you know, I always considered him a friend and a good person. But I think one thing he always said to me is You know, I think Lyle, whether it was like a practice drill or the national championship, it's gonna be the same effort. And if he makes the play, he makes the play. If he doesn't, he's okay with it. And I think that for those guys that's the medicine.

I tell you you want something special to be in like an indoor arena in Buffalo in December with all the Hoden Shawnee players and just the way they approach the game and like they trul like they have a different love for the game because it does mean more to them. And so listen, do we have Americans? Yeah yes the same kind of love but it's never gonna be the 'Cause it ultimately is never yes, we you know

All the non hodnashone are talking about the medicine game, the creators game. But it i it's not their blush. Yeah. It's so spiritual to them. It is It it is their culture. And when you're around it and you see and they're hooting and hollering and they're yelling and And just the way they play and just no fear. They don't care. They just play they love playing lacrosse, man, and they

You know, and these guys, you know, some of them make a lot of money, some aren't making money. I I don't know if it m you know, they don't change how they play based on how much. Have you tried to instill this at pace? Do you have s I like there there's obviously a healthy level of like the games are different. We don't roll with a thirty second shot clock and if you play like that

always it might c come back to bite ya. Well how do you implement that lack of fear and just like creative no I don't even say creative'cause we're on a different tangent. We're on like a

Lack of f just fear, yeah. Well, I think it comes down to right when I have, you know, I had a conversation this morning with the player who's, you know He's got you know, I think they're doing a lot of thinking. And my response is you the same, just play, play with a smile. Play as hard as you can. Because you know, at the end of the day, if you do that, you the rest will take you.

If you're meant to have a great day, you'll have a great day. And I think if you look at I don't know if we're talking about a lie or Tommy Schreiber, like I don't think they've ever in their mind said I'm gonna go out and have ten points today against the best defensive in the world or the best team in the world. Yet they do. And then they might go out and have no points. But they still have the same care and passion and you know that's also why they're elite.

But at the same time, you know, why can't we model and replicate their mindset? You know, you can't replicate their skills. You know, I've said this to people and they kinda like, Oh, I don't know. I'm convinced that Lyle Thompson, if he wanted to, would be pro in any sport he played. If he was a running back. He would be elite. If he played hockey, he would be elite. If he played basketball, he would be elite.

You look at his his athleticism, his balance, his explosion, his hand speed, his foot speed, he's elite. You know, you look at Tommy Schreiber's wrists, you look at y you know, just Brennan O'Neill, you look at how like you look at the elite guys and how they do things.

They would be good at other sports. You know, you look at what Jared Bernhardt did, right? You know, played with Carls. Pat Spencer comes to mind when you think about a guy who played like Lyle. You know, Pat Spencer, like I mean, the guy's playing in the NBA. Like You know, I don't think people understand what it's like. You get an invite to a training camp in football. You're the real deal.

But you you know, a lot of that is an elite mindset and and a big part of that is getting past the mistake. I think the players who don't have that elite mindset aren't going to become the best version of themselves. You have to have that elite mindset and understand I'm not always going to be perfect, but I have to chase. I we are deep in the weeds and this is exactly where I want to be on on all of our conversations. I look up to Richmond from the defensive side and

What they've been able to accomplish is basically what I look up to. But I'm in interesting because the conversation we're having on the freedom of play and just uh being able to make mistakes, it feels like what I've heard from you know, just Seeing the program and doing all that.

that they are very disciplined in in like not making mistakes. That's a that's a big part. I'm just fascinated with this balance that you have to have'cause it Well, I think that you know, I think anybody who's played against or anybody that's watched this, like there's times we look very disciplined and we're very structured.

But there's also times you're like, man, we gotta go. We gotta go. You know, we've had multiple times where we've been down three or four goals with like 90 seconds left in a game. And we found ways to tie it. And you found ways to win it. And you know, you don't always win it. You know, last year you didn't say a tournament. We were down a bunch of goals late in the game. We came back to tie it on a seventy yard pass. And we didn't win the game. Okay, we didn't win the game.

You know, don't get caught don't don't play for the we don't play for the points, we don't play for the scoreboard. I saw this the other day. I said to the guys today, man, don't play for points. Play for the love of the game. And if you're gonna lose Lose an overtime in the in state tournament where you tied the game on a seventy yard. 'Cause you get those. Go out in style. You know I mean there's no good way to lose. But if you could pick it, and there's some people would argue it.

Ah, you know. Those kids tried. Did we make mistakes at the end? Of course. That's why we lost. But did they try? Oh yeah. Were they devastated? Oh yeah. Do they still feel it? Of course. We all do. But man, you look back in a game and be like, well, we tried. We did everything we could. And the end of the day, that's what this is all about. But just why shouldn't that be for every single kid who plays lacrosse? Every team. Why shouldn't it be like that?

Love what you do, love your teammates, enjoy it. It's the best thing we have going for the sport too, man, because you hear a lot of kids that maybe are used to football, which admittedly is a little bit more in your face with like, Hey, you're gonna you need to be ready, you know? Fo football's all about the seven seconds. Yeah. From the s the the the snap of the ball to the whistle. It's all about the seven seconds. You know, lacrosse is about

Do we need to have some of it? Of course you do. You've got to be organized. You've got to be structured. You gotta be that was always my approach to the pros, and I think probably some pros loved it because they understood what it was about. Some pros didn't like it. Because you take all the best players in the world, they all have different opinions. You got many of these pros who are coaches.

And they're not wrong. They all have great ideas. But man, it's thirty seconds left in a game. We need a goal. We have no timeouts. We hit we need to have already have a scheme and a plan. You know, I think you look at like the great Dave Cottle who, you know, he's a month before the game putting in a timeout play that he's not going to use for a month. He's not thinking about now, he's thinking about down the road.

Love that. So when you get in a timeout, you're not panicking, you're like boom, we know what to do. I want to get back to some questions on the player development side before we end. This has been a great discussion, Tom. I appreciate you taking some time.

We've been a a little bit over the map with, you know, the Hodoshone th you talked a little bit of Canadian ball, US ball. You're working with Korea lacrosse would love to get their mindset. It's not a sport that's really native to them at all. Uh and they're they're picking it up and you're obviously, you know, doing what you can to grow the game over there. What's the vibe over there?

I think if you want to have a cool experience, look up like some of the Korea Summer League, some of the Korea sixes, the announcers, music. Like it's like a vibe. It's a it's so cool. Um It's something unique that I haven't seen before. You know, they've got a passion for the game, they've got a hunger to get better. They wanna get better, they wanna improve, and I think, you know, it was kind of two sided. They they wanted to figure out a way to get better.

I looked at as a way to give back to a game that I absolutely love and have done some cool things and been around the world but I've never been to South Korea, you know. Over the next kind of six months I'll be in South Korea, I'll be in New Zealand. And you know, I think some of these teams they do the culture side so well

It's you know it's very small popular you look at the Hoden Ashone, you look at Korea, you look at these teams, their player pool is like this big. USA and Canada their player pool. It's immense. And they don't have a lot to pick from. I mean I still you know, you look at the Hoden Ashone

you know the the amount of like offensive skill from that it is unbelievable and I think that well what's that come from? It comes from their how they view the game and it comes from So I think that you know, I looked at this as kinda opportunity to help Korea reach some goals and they wanna improve and they wanted to kind of maybe get somebody with a different

experiencing a different flavor and it's you know, they've always had domestic coaches live right there. Listen, it's an eighteen hour flight. It's not like I can go over there weekly. Yeah. Um How are you how are you working development having other responsibilities and living a thousand miles away? Yeah, I mean it's an eighteen hour flight. I th I think uh my plan is to go out there at some point soon. I'll probably be in the plane more than I'll actually be in Korea.

Um, but I can't wait. I'm I'm fired up to be around these men who love the game. And think about they're in an environment where like no one else is doing what People probably don't even know what they're doing. They're walking around sticks and people don't have an idea they're they're small little circle does. But the ability to help them and hopefully leave a lasting impression or take on the game, like I'm hoping I can do that for them. You know, I think that'll you know

I think probably my organization's structure is probably a little different than what they're used to. I think they've kind of done what they've done. Um, but they're excited about it. They love the game of lacrosse, they've got a passion for it.

I think the end of the end end of the game, right? When you're in this game you wanna be around people who have the same passion as you do.

And you look at all these country look at World Lacrosse and Bob DeMarco is the head of the World Lacrosse, you know, grew up with my father and Yonkers. They went to elementary school together, just a little coincidence there, but like You know, I look at like a Tom Hayes who had a great career at Rutgers and then was instrumental in helping build the game internationally.

you know, Richie Moran with Iron Lacrosse, like you look at what Jamaica's doing now. Well you look at Japan. I mean, Japan is good. Like they're good. They're not just like okay, they're good.

And they I can't remember who it was, but they you know, years ago they took one of the guys' books and just read everything and watched every video and just taught themselves how to play and like they're good. You watch them play in the world games, they're they're a nice team. Australia's always been good.

I think the you know, and World Across is different because of the rules and but man, what's amazing is the culture and the different you look at a team from Kenya who's walking out and singing and dancing like, you know, New Zealand's doing the haka like How cool is that? Like the the it's one of the coolest things about our sport, and I don't think enough people appreciate that. And we need more people to be involved.

You know, give back to the game, support. Get out and watch, you know, PLO. Get out and watch NL. Help these teams. Help these players grow. Because man, these players care. And we you know, I think we all have a goal and we should have a passion to help grow. Without even meeting you I could realize that through the jobs that you've taken uh with everywhere you've been. So it's cool to hear from the horses back. There's a reality.

I think I've done a lot of cool things in this game and have had success. Had d certainly had failures, but I've also had a lot of success. I'm never gonna be the USA coach and I'm okay with that. We have great coaches. We have great people who But you know, lacrosse we call it the blue bloods, right? If you're from certain schools, certain people Automatically you're a better coach.

I think we've got a lot of things. Same thing with podcasters, man. It's the same thing with it's the same thing with every podcast. I didn't go to Duke. I can't have a good podcast here. But at the end of the day, right? It's a stick and a ball and it's people care about the game. Amen. How can we help it? How can we improve it? You know, I think I learned a long time ago that I I'm not gonna be a millionaire coaching lacrosse. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna be at one of the elite jobs.

And I'm I'm okay with that. I love where I'm at. I love these kids. I love this universe. I have two kids here. But I just I love that I get to do this every day with kids that you love being around. Like what's

What's better than that? And then you get to the international level where you're with grown men or the pro level with grown men. It takes on a different you know, you're with them less, but they can also do so much more. Mm-hmm. Because they're elite. They have an elite And at the world game, you know, there's different levels of Different levels of lacrosse in the world game, but you know what's doesn't change? The passion.

How are you thinking about game planning when it com I th these all have to be lightning questions'cause it's we're at the hour mark. I don't want to hold you any more than than we can. How do you think about game planning when you take Korea and you have to play the US next game? What are you just playing all zone? Are you holding the ball for as long as humanly possible? Like what w how do you even go into a game like that?

Listen, I think at the end of the day you play to the rules. You play to the rules that you're given. Your job is to help the team win that lacrosse game. But ultimately it goes back to, you know, don't play for the points. Don't play for the scoreboard, play for the love of the game. You know, I don't know, I one time we went to play a team and You know, it was like a high level team and a really well known name and, you know, it's in the fourth quarter. We hadn't scored a goal yet.

And, you know, we scored a goal and we're on the the s you know, they beat the crap out of us. We're on the sideline, high fiving, like, man, we didn't get shut out'cause it felt like we didn't get shut out. And their coach is like, Oh, we'll play you next year. Okay, great. We come back down again next year and I think we end up losing by two. You know, high level team, one of the biggest names in lacrosse, you lose by two.

Well it's funny, at the end of that game you asked to play the third year, people didn't want to play ya. Mm-hmm. And I think the, you know, listen, did we want to win both those games? Of course we did. We tried to win every game. Sometimes it's not there. Sometimes you you're not there. You're not there schematically. And you just hope as a coach you don't screw it up. You want to give the players the best opportunity.

But don't play the scoreboard, just play. Have fun. People play the scoreboard, squeeze their stick, and that's when you miss it.

A lot of great insights in this episode. So again, lightning questions if you can. Would you rather have a football player or a basketball player? And what do you what would you take from both of those sports and try to meld into your drills and things like this? If I want the ex-attackman, I want him as a a one or two guard, maybe a three. If I want a defenseman at D MIDI, I want a middle linebacker.

Okay. Maybe a safety. So I think there's a correlation. Um, you know what though? One of the best players I ever coached ran cross country. I'd put his mental toughness up with anybody. He was tough as can be and you know I saw him not too long ago and he's on two or three PT practices, crushing life, great kids, beautiful kids, just got a wonderful life, not

He was awesome to coach. He also played every single position on the field, man up, man down, face off. Like so it's like for me, probably grown up, you gotta play football. You gotta I love multi sport athletes. Soccer guy. Cross country it's all mindset. But I think it's based on each other.

What's something that when you walk out to a practice field and I don't want to put any coaches on blastfully here, but what's something where you just kinda start shaking your head uh and say, Hey, like that's I would do that differently on the lacrosse field when it comes to practice. So I think, right, you know, I coach in college. We you know, I love our facility, got brand new turf, lights, video scoreboard, we have a sound system.

We play music and practice. The only time we don't is if there's a game going on and you might randomly see kids You know, you might randomly see kids dancing in our practice. Awesome. That means they're having fun. I don't know too many people dance when they're

I'm okay with that. As long as they're not dicking around and not screwing around. But like everybody's got different approach. You know, we practice it in mornings in the fall. They're getting up. They might have been up late, studying, working, whatever, and then they gotta get up early.

You know, we do a thing right now where kinda each team, you know, who wins the kind of the challenge week, you know, they get the pusic pick the music for the next week. You know. Last week's team is heavy on country. Uh, you know, I don't know if country's the greatest vibe, but I'll tell you what, a lot of guys are singing it. Yeah. A lot of guys sing it.

It's a Morgan Wallen out there on the radio. Yeah, I think half the time I listen to country, I want to cry and I'm depressed, but I think it's awesome. You know, and also think these kids what listen to so many different genres of music. But to your point.

To me it's the environment. Is it fun out there? And some people we have a high school we don't have I mean, everybody's got like a little portable speaker, like now, do we have times where we have to turn it down? Of course we do,'cause we're teaching, we're coaching, but like

It's a great environment that's fun. Last question what's your favorite drill and why? That is it. You know what? I think when you get caught up and you do these million drills, um You know, I'll be honest, one of my favorite drills is we do like this kind of thirty two scramble where there's multiple cages and three or four different cages and they're all alive and it's just kind of chaos. I mean

We did it begin of season, I was coaching a kid, wasn't paying attention. I got slashed in the shin. Gushing blood, had to get it wrapped. I still you know, that was three weeks ago and I still have scab on my leg. But it was awesome. Just the energy, the kids getting after it, they're competing. What's the legacy? So we'll kinda play in like uh let's say, you know

I don't know, like use the soccer circle as a parameter. You can put a cage here, cage here, cage there, and three V two and they alternate three white, two blue, three blue, and they just kinda alternate and we'll keep points and then you know, you can score in any cage. So it's it's it's They're forcing us to move. We're forcing to defend off ball, get nuggets, get passing lane. And you know, you would think you would score every single time. I don't even know if it's fifty.

I think the defensemen do a wonderful job. But when the offense gets going it can be a bear of a drill for the defenseman. But more often than not, it's usually a defenseman chirping an offensive guy who's pissed off throwing a stick or something in the Um I think uh you guys had multiple cages and the defender was like

In position on one cage, but he's out of position on another. Yeah. And you know, that happens in a game. You think you're in the right spot and then you gotta rotate in another spot. There you go. But like I said, the offense doesn't score every single time. Great nuggets in this episode. Hopefully you guys listening at home enjoyed it. Coach Mariano, appreciate you. I'll have to have you back. I love this discussion. Thank you.

I appreciate it, Zach. Like you said, we kinda were all over the place and I think we probably could do an hour on each little thing, but I think this is awesome. Um certainly I say to everybody I appreciate what you do for lacrosse. I think any time we can talk the game of lacrosse or spread the game of lacrosse is a good thing. Certainly a good thing. And appreciate you and everybody listening. Hopefully more people listening.

I've you know, kinda I th thought the podcast I think all this stuff is great. We need more of it.