This is the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast. Helping you run your restaurant better.
Welcome Back to the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast. I thank everyone out there for joining us. As I say each and every time, I know you guys have got lots of choices, so I appreciate you guys spending time with us. today, as always, we are joined by a, pretty cool guest, and it's funny because, I'm gonna let Rick introduce himself, but I have multiple avenues where people are like, you've got to talk to Rick Elliott, you've got to talk to Rick Elliott.
and I knew who Rick Elliott was, but I had no idea who, what Rick had done until, till after we got connected. So Rick, why don't you introduce yourself to our audience and then we can talk a little bit about how, how we got connected. Cause, even in the restaurant tech game for one or two years, I think.
I've been in the game for a while. yeah, so to introduce myself, my name is Rick Elliott. I would describe myself as a proud dad. I've got two young boys, age 10 and 12, Kern and Nicola, as a fortunate husband to my beautiful wife, Leah, and currently, professionally, a co founder of Conductor, an early stage startup in the restaurant tech space.
Awesome. I always love it when people introduce themselves as a husband and father, because, for a long time listeners, they know I've got four kids and that does consume a lot of my thought life and a lot of my energy. And it's amazing being a dad and being a husband as well. thanks for sharing that.
It's very satisfying, yes. Being a dad is awesome. I love spending time with the whole family, and yeah, that's what life is all about. That's the important thing for me, for sure.
I love it. I alluded to it. You've, you've been in the restaurant tech space for a little bit. I know we'll talk a lot on today's show, but talk to me about some of the early endeavors as it relates to restaurant tech, where, when did you get into it and how did it start and give people a little bit of background for people that aren't familiar with, with some of your, some of your previous experience in the restaurant tech space. and what led to Conductor.
Sure, yeah. stumbled into the restaurant tech space. I grew up in Canada, in Edmonton, Canada, as you politely pointed out. I do have a bit of an accent that I simply cannot shake after being here for 24 years. grew up in Canada. After high school, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I actually spent some time in the oil and gas industry working on a drilling rig, which quickly made me realize that, okay, I need to go back to school and get an education.
So I went back to school and got a computer science degree. moved down to San Diego in the year 2000, spent a few years working for some small development agencies, ended up doing a lot of contract work and working for myself. During that period of time, ended up meeting, What would be my future co founders at Brink? there were four of us that co founded Brink in 2008 or 2009. Brink POS was one of the first cloud based, point of sale solutions for the restaurant industry.
From 2009 until 2014, we were a small, lean, self funded, stressed out group.
Yep. I know some of your co founders and I remember some of those conversations,
But super exciting, like I loved that period of time. We were small, we got to do innovative things. cloud wasn't even a term back in 2008 and 2009. At least it wasn't in our vocabulary. Like we called it our, we called ourselves a hosted point of sale solution. And then that kind of became, we're a hybrid hosted because we run in the restaurant and we run in a So on a server in a data center and then cloud became the term somewhere between oh nine and 2014 and we adopted that term.
but yeah, it was a lot of fun. We grew Brink from zero to probably. 400 restaurants up until 2014. And then in 2014, Brink was acquired by par. We did a lot of deals with par was on the hardware side. We were delivering the software. And so it was a kind of a natural fit. They acquired us in 2014 from 2014 until 2022. I was a PAR employee, so I was there for seven years. left in 2022, took some time off, and then decided to do something new. And so here I am with Conductor.
I guess I'll ask the question. Have you met anybody else in tech that, that served time on an oil rig, and then moved into being a founder of a technology company? Cause, I was on a show a couple of weeks ago with somebody. He's I started as a, Accountant and now I'm in marketing. I'm like, those things can't be any more diverse. And it sounds like from your perspective, not a whole lot, not a whole lot different there,
No, I can't say I've ever met anyone, definitely not anyone in San Diego that's ever done that. I'm sure if I came to Texas, I'd maybe would run into someone that spent time in the oil and gas industry and on a rig, but my time working on a drilling rig. It was super valuable. It was very hard work and it taught me the value of grinding and putting in the hard work. And so I think I took a lot away from that and things that I learned I still apply today.
I love that, that story. Thanks for sharing. on, and again, we've had Savneet, the CEO of PAR on the show once or twice and great guy, and he's done some fantastic stuff with, With the product that you guys invented and came up with, just because I'd love to go back a little bit for those listeners that have been in the space for a long time. What drove you, you and your co founders on the Brink side to go cloud?
Because I do think it's going to parlay into kind of why you guys are why you're in this new venture and why cloud or why hosted versus an in store and on premise solution? Because I think there's still a very large percentage of our industry. I agree. I work and live in this industry every day with people that still haven't migrated. They're still with a hundred percent on prem solution.
So this was with a client yesterday and they've got 75 restaurants and all of them still are on prem and they have to dial in, via some dial in tool to, to download files and upload files and such every day. And but that, that still makes up a very large percentage of our industry. And so talk to me a little bit about that thought process, because you guys were such on the bleeding edge of that stuff from a hosted, Hosted platform perspective so many years ago.
Yeah. So I, it all came out of, the four of us worked together at another company before Brink that did a variety of different products. And one of the products was a handheld ordering solution that integrated with, some of the restaurant services.
POS systems and during that endeavor, We realized just how painful it was to work with the legacy point of sale systems that were contained just within the four walls of the restaurant, whether that's, and especially with online ordering becoming a thing. And it was still very early on, but we could see that, okay, there's going to be this need to inject a high volume of orders into the restaurant.
And that's, It's like not only doing an on prem integration is painful, but imagine trying to do that from outside of the restaurant that can becomes even more difficult and managing an enterprise. Like you said, people are still transferring file based solutions. that's their mechanism for integrating and transferring data is this file transfer. So just seeing a lot of the pains. From an integration perspective made us see that there was an opportunity to do something new.
I, thanks for sharing that, that portion of the story. and, it's always amazing to me when I, cause I get a lot of founders that don't know the space that are like, I'm going to come and disrupt your restaurant space. They want to talk to me about all of the cool things that they want to do. And I'm like, okay, slow down a little bit. This isn't, some building, some connectors and some data center that's in, some hosted cloud environment, Google or AWS.
So I'm like, you got to deal with a lot of disconnected networks and such. And and it's always fun to educate them on, hold your horses just a little bit. The largest percentage of the industry still has on prem solutions that you got to go deal with.
I still have the, sorry, I'll interrupt you. I'll say I still have those tendencies or what you described of Oh, let's go do this. And let's do that. And I would say, Myself and my co founders at Conductor. We're all, we love to build things. We're engineers, we're tech people. And so that's where we really thrive and what we like to do. So it's easy for us to have like big aspirations to do all kinds of different things. Like we're going to do this and we're going to do that.
And some of that surface didn't bring to, we did a lot of different things.
and again, the Brink product is still taking market share every day and, doing a fantastic job with, what you, Recently left just a couple of years ago. and again, it's just funny to me because everybody thinks it's, they think it's going to be just as easy as any other, any other solution that's out there. And it's no, I don't know that there's, C stores, maybe grocery, maybe, banking maybe has.
Has more legacy tech than restaurants, but like beyond that, there's very few other industries in the world that have stuff that's nearly as, as I guess, designed and architected so many years ago, because it is such a high volume transaction engine and it does a lot. it's really the ERP at the end of the day that lives in the center of the store and deals with all of those transactions. I'm changing gears a little bit, Rick. Talk to me a little bit about what you guys are doing.
it sounds like you're an innovator. It sounds like you're an early adopter. You're one of those people. And you and your co founders, at the brink stages were like, you know what, let's look out into the future. Talk to me a little bit about what you guys are trying to solve with conductor. Because I, I selfishly, as I said to you before I hit the record button, I'm like, I've heard about this thing. It's been under wraps for a little bit here.
And I'm geek to hear what you guys are trying to solve for, because I think it'd be really cool. Yeah.
Sure. yeah, when we left, my perspective, when I left PAR in 2022, I took a little bit of time off, which was great time with the family, but then had this kind of urge to start creating something new and building something new. know what it was yet. we knew we wanted to do something within the restaurant tech space. We did a lot of, let me rewind, spent some during my time at PAR. The time at PAR was, Great. I learned a lot. We went from a small, fast moving startup to a bigger company.
And it was a great experience. Cause we got to see, how do you scale software? Like, how do you scale a team that builds software? learned a lot. Par's a great company. for me, I didn't really find my happy place there where I could just build something. And so I had this need to build something. So we spent time after leaving Par, just. prototyping, doing a bunch of different things, and we really couldn't find what we wanted to do. We spent a lot of time like reflecting on our projects.
Brink and par experience. And I think one of the things that we talked about a lot was, with Brink early on, at least I found we, we maybe overcommitted a lot and we maybe did not make high integrity commitments oftentimes. And you do that when you're a startup, you're hungry and you want to get the deal and et cetera. So that ended up putting us in a place where.
Our customers had expectations on features or bug fixes and we hadn't set proper expectations for them or we hadn't made like high integrity commitments on certain features. We made loose commitments and that didn't turn out well for anyone, right? Our customers they're making plans based on what they hear and what they interpret. And then we're in the hot seat because we're not delivering those things.
And I think in reflecting in that experience, I had this moment where I'm like, that's like my experience in a restaurant as a guest. I'm never told exactly how long my food is going to take or when it's going to arrive. And without that information, without having a proper expectation set and being informed, I find I'm distracted a lot because of my brain being a prediction machine. I'm constantly trying to figure out like, when is my food going to be ready?
if we go sit in a full service restaurant, what's And maybe this is just me. Tell me if this is just me and I'm crazy.
and, just happened last night, ironically, I'll let you finish, but, I have a feeling we can riff for a while on this because I think it's a critical part of the guest service experience that, that nobody's been talking about for a long time. So I'll
Yeah. so you walk in, And when you sit at your table, the first thing I do is I take a mental note on who's already been seated. And then you sit down and you off to the side, you're aware of who's seated after you and you order, and then you start seeing the food coming out and you're like, okay, those people were here before us. They got their food. And you start to predict how long it's going to take. And then.
The instant someone that sat after you gets their food, you're like, Whoa, wait a minute.
Yeah.
The temperature starts to rise. And yeah, if you've got small kids, as soon as you sit down, the first thing that you're asked is when's the food going to be here? When's the food going to be here? I would say there's a comparable for me. There's a comparable thing that happens in more of like a quick serve environment. In N Out. I love In N Out.
Go to In N Out, you go up to the counter, you order, they give you your receipt, they say, okay, you're order number 43, so then you go sit down, and you start listening, and they call order number 37, and you start, doing this prediction on when your food's gonna be ready, and in thinking of those scenarios, I'm like, okay, I really just want to be told up front, okay, your food is going to take this amount of time or it's going to be ready at this time.
And then I can turn off that side of my brain and just focus on the experience that I'm having. Or if I've ordered for pickup, tell me exactly when it's going to be ready so that I can plan accordingly. And if anything changes, let me know so I can adjust. I don't want to show up. I don't want to be told it's going to be ready in 30 minutes and I show up and I got to sit there and wait for 10 minutes.
It's let me know so that, hey, maybe I got to stop at the grocery store and run a couple of errands and I can be more efficient with my time versus showing up and sitting on my phone for 10 minutes at the restaurant. so I think that's,
the part that I love that you guys are doing, Rick is we have the digital tools to do this now. That mean that the hard part is historically, and I tell a very true story. our CTO is a big barbecue fan. I live in Dallas. South of Dallas is number one, Texas barbecue place. And they say pretty much on their website, you're going to wait two to three hours to get your food. And you know what, and there's a huge line and they're only open Thursdays through Sundays.
And you're going to get there and you're going to get there at 10 AM. They're going to open the doors at 11 and you're not going to, unless you're there at 6 AM, you're not, you're going to wait and everybody knows.
And that's part of the expectation, but throughout that experience, cause they're not digital and it's a big queue, cause you've got this big line in front of you when you walk into In N Out, you're going to You know that you've got a big line and you've got this, but now that you've got digital, you've got third party delivery, you've got all of these impact factors that, that didn't exist 10 years ago or 15 years ago, maybe they did, but they did in a much, much less form.
It creates a level of complexity that I think a lot of brands haven't been able to tackle because when I walk in and I see the queue, I go, okay. There's 10 people in front of me, to your point, or I'm sit down in the dining room. I know the dining room is full, but now the impact to the kitchen could be much greater from third party delivery or, in a quick serve environment through the drive through. Talk to me a little bit about how you guys think about that.
Because I think across the board, really, that's one of the things that you guys are trying to solve for at Connector.
yeah, for sure. And yeah, to what, to your point, I would agree. I always say I would. I would rather wait 20 minutes and be told it's going to take 20 minutes versus waiting 15 minutes and not knowing and spending that 15 minutes wondering, right? set the expectation. Hopefully it's super accurate. And if anything changes, let me know. So how do we do that?
Yeah. there's a lot of technology that exists from an ordering perspective, but really what we need to do in order to provide that guest experience is gain control of the kitchen and have a better understanding of. What is happening in the kitchen? What is the current workload in the kitchen? What is the current velocity of the kitchen? What are the items in the kitchen? Which stations are they routing to? What are the dependencies across stations?
And if an order comes in, how does that order Get distributed within the kitchen and how does all of the current activity affect that order? So really what we're building is a kitchen system that is guest focused. So our touch point is to the guest to keep them informed but everything that we're building is a kitchen solution. So our tagline is cooking up a killer guest experience.
So a lot of the technology in the solution that we're building is focused within the kitchen and gaining control of the kitchen.
thanks for sharing that again. I think it's I think back to tech. the tech exists. People have been using kitchen screens to tell you that the order has gotten started to tell you the order has gotten finished for many years, but it never flows back through, quite frankly, even to the staff member that's seating, that seating that table or that's using that table. Most people haven't implemented at that time.
Almost nobody has gotten down to the level of the guests, knowing when that order is going to be ready and when it's, that it's been dropped into the fryer and it's on its way out of the fryer to the table. Talk to me a little bit about how you guys are thinking about that, because that's a lot to take on. I guess you're taking on a lot of history. A lot of what people have been doing for many years. They, Pay no attention, the Wizard of Oz, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Just wait for your food and deal with it when it comes out versus this whole transparency idea that you guys are coming out with.
Yeah. yeah, there's solutions out there that provide a little bit of information. There's not a whole lot that surface it to the guest, but I would say, a lot of the solutions are more of, the acronym is KDS kitchen display system. I feel like a lot of the solutions that exist are just really paper replacements and they don't really, They don't really orchestrate all of the activity in the kitchen, and that's what we call ourselves as a kitchen orchestration system.
So we've applied some lean manufacturing principles to our software to ensure maximizing flow within the kitchen. So changing the mindset from, let's just try to push everything through the kitchen as fast as possible, And applying a different approach to where we can control the flow, which gives us the predictability and the accuracy on when things will actually be completed.
And really I would say also my time at par has influenced how we're approaching kitchen because of how you build software to scale is, You try to control the work in progress. You have all these different teams building software. There's dependencies across teams, and if you just ask all those teams to just produce as much code as possible, you end up with a lot of chaos and you don't have everything coming out like it should.
At a like with synchronous synchronicity at the end in a release, right? It becomes very difficult to manage like the timing of your releases. And I'd say that's very analogous to the kitchen where, okay, we need to control the work in progress and make sure that everything is coming out in a synchronous way.
That's your kitchen orchestration system and I think that's a fantastic way. for those that are restaurant people and have been restaurant people for a million years, can you define what you would say is lean manufacturing? I'm super familiar with it, and Kaizen and all that, but I think there's some listeners that may go. What the heck is this lean manufacturing principles? Can you educate our listeners?
Cause I do think oftentimes if they, restaurants are creatures of habit, humans are creatures of habit. They do what they've always done and they run their kitchens the way that they've always been run and don't necessarily even look at some of the things that, that we can take from adjacent industries and incorporate them back into what we're doing.
Yeah, I won't go too far into the details, but I would say, think of maybe a lot of restaurant people don't like to think of the kitchen as like a production facility, but think of like a manufacturing plant that is producing widgets or 15 different types of widgets and they all, each widget has an assembly line and maybe certain widgets depend on other widgets.
So you have all these different assembly lines for manufacturing your products and there has to be some control on how those different assembly lines run in parallel and how they converge and come back together. You can't just dump everything on the assembly line and have it expect to have it all come out perfect at the end.
There has to be some control and so rather than a push system where you push everything through it's more of a pull system so each station has its own predefined maximum work in progress and it's up to the person working that station to pull work in and it's that mechanism of pulling work in that controls the rate of flow through the kitchen.
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or through the manufacturing facility.
Yeah. And I appreciate you, you, defining that. Cause I think at the end of the day, I've had way too many people that, they're like, what is this lean manufacturing thing? Or what are you talking about? And I love that you, that was such a simple and concise way to define it. And so thank you for that.
from one station piling up at another station that is dependent on them. You end up with all these bottlenecks and work piling up in the wrong place versus ensuring that everything is like, The work in progress is lean and minimal.
well, and I think in, in, in a real life environment, oftentimes I order a chicken Caesar salad. If chicken is dragging and it's behind, I can't get my Caesar salad out because the chicken. Is at the grill and the grill might be three or four or five items behind. So don't dress the salad because you don't want it to be wealthy at the time. You, you lay the chicken breasts on top of it.
And I think people, at the end of the day, they experience it good and they experience it bad, but they don't consider the orchestration that needs to happen. and in the traditional legacy kitchens, one of our clients, cheesecake factory had done a PBS special called into the fire where they went through all of the different places. This is probably. In the early two thousands, and they went through a kitchen. It was still paper at the time.
And they talked about how many different ways they needed to orchestrate a 10 station kitchen. most people think cheesecake factory is crazy because they're not items that they produce, but at the day, they do it really well. But you also know when it's not done well, flip it around to the guest. You talked about orchestrating the kitchen. how much communication on the front side, how much communication on the back side?
You talk about your, I'd rather be told it's 20 minutes than it's going to be 20 minutes. Are you guys going to, are you guys considering getting to the point where you're going to tell me, based on this basket, it's going to take 22 minutes, but if you take that chicken Caesar salad off, it's going to be 16 minutes? Are you guys trying to get to that point, that even before I order, I know what to order?
My expectations are going to be, or are you guys really looking at the post order, communication and then eventually getting back to the pre order communication?
I would say early on, it'll be the post order, but we absolutely want to get to that point where we can provide that information ahead of time. So even before ordering to be able to say, okay, if you submit this is how long it's going to take. And even being able to offer like intelligence as far as, maybe we'll, Which location should it go to? Like being able to do location level routing within a certain, within a brand, within a certain geography.
Yeah, I think it'd be awesome to be able to know, okay, if you're going to submit this order, this is when it will be ready. So that I know ahead of time, the earlier we can set that expectation, the better.
and I think, I've been out to fine dining and you go to order the souffle, if you're at a fine dining place that does souffles, they tell you at the order process, when you're ordering your entrees, Hey, if anybody's going to have a souffle, you should order it now. Cause it's going to take 55 minutes to cook, or any of those really long cook items.
And I think it's amazing when you get that experience and you really wanted the souffle And then they know to fire it based on what your order timing is. But typically you're paying a heck of a lot more than you are at, at a, at a Rubio's or at a, in and out for your meal and those kind of environments,
yeah, for sure. I'll add one more thing. I will say, we're really trying to take a craftsman approach with this product that we're building and really try to focus on one problem at a time and get really good and master one problem. So being able to predict with confidence when an order is going to come out of the kitchen is our first step. And once we've mastered that, then yeah, we'll move on to the predicting ahead of time.
And there's all kinds of different things we can do, but we're really trying to be restrained and right. Like the comment I made earlier about Oh, let's just build everything and let's do this. And let's do that. it's like super easy to get distracted by all the bells and whistles that you could add.
it sounds like, you may have had some previous experience where you got too big for your britches and, had stuff that you couldn't get quite to the way you wanted it to deliver for customers.
Point of sale comes with a lot of bells and whistles. People ask for all kinds of things, right? You're not familiar with that,
I have no idea what you're talking about, Rick. I guess which does actually lead me. Where are you guys going with this? Cause you've got some systems out there. Are you guys going to partner with an order management system? Are you guys, talk to me a little bit about how you guys are thinking to go to market, because I know, I know you guys are in your early stages and I love the idea of what you guys are doing.
I think it's going to be ubiquitous and I think it's going to be a huge differentiator on the tech side. And I think people need what it is that you guys are producing. So thank you for pushing forward and innovating because it's going to deliver. Better guest experience is going to deliver a better restaurant experience. How are you guys thinking about getting the orders into the system?
Are you guys just going to build a connector or talk to me a little bit about where you guys are at with that?
getting orders into the system, that's something that we're still exploring. I'll leave it at that. there's there's There's a number of different possible paths that we're exploring. as far as surfacing the information to the guest, we'll offer, to start we'll offer a basic, mobile web application that can be accessed by scanning a QR code.
So think of like the Amazon experience where you could scan the QR code, maybe that's embedded on a table or it's, part of your receipt, some way to get to the guests to a basic mobile web application where they can monitor in real time the progress of their order and their items through the kitchen. So they can even verify that, okay, it was entered in the way I We're building everything with an API first mentality.
So that information could also be consumed by any integrator that wanted to integrate. And surface that maybe, in a fine dining establishment, they probably don't want to put a QR code on the table and maybe discourage people from, being on their phone. It's more about being present and being in the experience in that scenario. The point of sale, if the point of sale has a handheld device, they could consume our API and notifications from our API.
And then the waiter can be responsible for informing the guests. there could be a notification that the waiter receives. And it's Oh, Table number four's entrees are 90 seconds delayed and then the waiter can go and provide that information and provide that more like personal experience, so that's the way we're thinking of it.
that information can surface on an order ready board from an order ready board vendor, but we're really trying to put a lot of care into the APIs that we offer since, we've been on both sides of the integration side.
as heavily we and ultimately the customer's the one that loses when the when it doesn't work.
So we're trying to find ways to make it very easy to integrate. exploring some different options there, but really the goal is we'd never want, we never want our products release cycle to get in the way of an integrator doing what they need to do.
So coming up with a, kind of a pattern that allows for maybe an open source integration type of thing where we have our API and then, there's, open source like plugins that can connect into our application that can be managed by the order ready board vendor. They want to create their own integration or maybe the brand wants to create their own integration and those can be managed in an open source type of fashion.
I I love what you guys are doing with that. it wouldn't be a podcast in 2024 if I didn't talk about AI and the impact that AI is gonna have. And I say that 'cause you're a tech guy and I'm a tech guy, but literally it surfaces. How is AI machine learning gonna impact what it is that you guys are doing?
I think there's a lot of things that we could do around, again, this would be something that's more forward thinking around how do we maximize the capacity or maximize utilization of the kitchen. Now, once we've got deep insights into what's happening within the kitchen, I think we could use AI or machine learning to offer recommendations on how maybe the menu mix could be altered to. to increase utilization, right?
There may be certain stations that are underutilized during certain periods of time or just purely because of the menu mix or the demand. So I think there's an opportunity there. there may be some other things too.
That's actually a fantastic idea. And I think too many people underutilize that because they say, I have to have this on my menu, but you know what, if it's only getting one out of every 10 orders, now I've got the station that's underutilized, how could I redesign my kitchen? How could I redesign my menu flow? How could I redesign even what my specials, my office are to utilize that extra space? Because back to your point, that dead space is costing you money and it's costing you time.
It's costing you energy. And I love that. How do people get in touch and stay connected with you guys and continue to understand what it is you guys are doing? I know it's, I know we're hoping to come to market later this year and get it in the field. And so I'm excited. As I said, at the Onsite Rec, I'm excited about what you guys are building. So for those that want to stay connected and learn more, how do they do that?
Yeah, I would say the best way would be on our website, conductor. com conductor with a K. you can sign up for our mailing list, keeps you informed on what we're working on. you can also find me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to connect and share what we're doing and always looking for new people to provide feedback. The more feedback we can get, the better.
we, I think the worst thing that we could do is build something in a vacuum and then just release it and expect it to be like received with open arms. So we want to.
tech people enough. They're going to be like, yeah, that's not going to work for me. You missed these seven things. They're going to be really vocal about it. If it does get out into the field, I'm sure.
for sure. So yeah, find me on LinkedIn. I should be pretty easy to find if you search conductor Rick Elliott or, look Jeremy up and he can connect you with me.
Yeah, no, for sure. And I'll put, I'll put links to the website and I know you guys have got to, Hey, stay connected to us on the website. So thank you for that. To our listeners, guys, I know that you guys have got lots of choices. Rick, for your time and to our listeners, make it a great day.
Appreciate it. Thanks, Jeremy.