Indian S*x Therapist Neha Bhat on Domestic Ab*se, Trauma Healing and Depth Psychology

I've been waiting to record this episode for a very long time with Neha Bhat in the SXT Therapist It's been a difficult year for so many people seeing mental health issues on a rice Sometimes somebody shars a prize and has no idea why they are crying in the shower Sometimes I am binging on my food I don't know why I am binging I'm thinking it's a weight issue but actually it's a trauma issue It's a lot of 100 individuals in India How many of them require therapy accordingly? What happens between 22 and 100?

This happens commonly now within Gen Z someone who at 25 experienced a lot of fame their parents died a girlfriend broke up with them They had to lose a lot of money then the friend will say just date someone else Just go have casual sex, finish it so that you can just forget about it This can go on to extreme things like self harm Is this all about dopamine? It's a major factor If I've been cheated on what will that person feel? Not being good enough You may take away

One month to heal I may take 10 years Now why does that happen? Trauma therapy tries to explain this What is hypersexuality? Hypersexuality can also manifest as porn addictions I'm so dissociated that my orgasm is only happening to that one porn video of that porn star that I saw at 1618 How do you deal with trying to get someone out of a porn addiction?

The most common trauma that you notice is sexual violence and domestic violence The more correct term now is interpersonal abuse, interpersonal violence, intimate partner violence The depth of it is that these traumatic abusive events can happen beyond gender Can the girl also hit the guy?

Happens often This is not necessarily a gender thing as it's been shown in media A key topic that I want to talk about is marital rape We're recording this intro on the 15th of August It's a few days after the Kolkata rape and murder case That's been in the news over the last week

This podcast was recorded before the incident took place All I wish to say the start of this episode is that today we have a top mental health professional Neha Bhatt talking about sexuality talking about rape related trauma Sexual violence related trauma

This is the right person to speak about this kind of topic There wasn't an intention to record this episode after the Kolkata rape incident But before we let the episode begin, I want to genuinely reach out to every single woman in India especially My heart goes out to all of you

I understand how women in our country especially feel after incidents like this Because of the conversation I had with Neha But there's no way that a man can completely empathize with a woman's perspective on whatever has happened in India today

So this is an apology on behalf of the country to all Indian women What I'd also like to genuinely mention is that my heart goes out to all the medical professionals in our country It's been years that we've been witnessing violence towards medical professionals in our country

It breaks my heart, I'm from a family full of medical professionals and I know that the mindset of doctors, nurses, anyone working in healthcare It's always about getting the patient to heal, getting the best possible outcome for the patient

And our country's just become so unsafe for medical professionals I genuinely hope that justice is served when it comes to the Kolkata case and I genuinely hope that in the long term, a government creates extremely strong rape laws It's been more than a decade since the Nirbhaya case

We've not seen extremely strong rape laws be established in our country I think that that's the need of the hour, the government needs to come out and make a very strong statement in this direction Stronger laws need to be created for the rest of the country

And of course, I'm not the subject expert on this but we need to go to the root of the problem And figure out what's going wrong in our country society This is not the India that I respect and love and cherish and celebrate as much as we do on social media

This is a darker side of India, the world is noticing We should be embarrassed as a society and I genuinely believe that we need to take steps in the right direction This particular podcast is also hopefully a step in that right direction to talk about topics like this much more publicly

With the right kind of subject experts, Nihbhat has helped countless men and women deal with sexuality related trauma I hope that this episode helps the Indian internet immensely It's Nihbhat on TRS I've been waiting to record this episode for a very long time with Nihbhat, the Indian sex therapist

Welcome to TRS Thank you so much, thanks for having me, so excited This is a very important episode for our audiences Because I think it's been a difficult year for so many people That's what I sense when I speak to people in my own social circles And we were just talking about this prior to the show as well I don't know if you sense that as a qualified therapist that you're seeing mental health issues on a rise I think that's such a lovely point to start on

I do see a lot of mental health issues on the rise but also in Veer I see that it's not the issues that are on the rise It's the uncovering of the issues that are on the rise So they've always been there but people are realizing that there's something up with my mind right now

And 2020-22-22 was this exceptional period in the world's I guess reckoning with oneself And India is reckoning with oneself that people just got some opportunities to just take a pause And just process and then that pause what happens is that you process a lot of stuff

So I noticed even people who wouldn't probably never access someone like me were really interested in asking trauma, sexuality, things like that Okay, if hypothetically speaking a caveman traveled into the future and met you and learned English to explain your job, how do you explain it to the caveman?

Yeah, I would tell this cave person that I am somewhere between the field of healing a scar that has not been looked at for many, many years with the depth that it should be looked at And the person that needs the healing has been suffering in silence thinking that they should just be alright and they're not So at the core of it, that's the job to heal a scar When you say suffering in silence, is it the suffering that one has to deal with during the shower

During the time they're trying to go to sleep During their meals or also during their work All of the above because it's not looked at So let's go to shower sometimes sometimes somebody showers and cries and has no idea why they're crying in the shower

Sometimes someone's, well let's think about more taboo things like what you do in a shower, people masturbate in the shower Women masturbate in the shower because it's a safe space from home like from the gaze of people in the house And then people, women cry a lot while masturbating in the shower But they may have no idea why that is like a repeated thing that's happening They may think, okay, say, what's happening?

They may have anxiety, etc, etc, but they may not know that it's connected to something deeper Food, same thing, sometimes I'm binging on my food, I don't know why I'm binging It's normal for me, someone else comes into my life and is like maybe somebody who's into health and wellness And says, hey, you tend to do sugar too much, you know why I've never asked why, I'm thinking it's a weight issue but actually it's a trauma issue Can you explain this?

I'm saying that people binge on a sweet food I'm saying that any of the four things you said, what did you say, shower, food, work, work and Probably just chilling time also, going to sleep, going to sleep, relaxation Any excesses of that or any extreme reduction of it is a red flag

Right, it's a red flag in terms of an average human being Who's let's say not a yogi, not someone who's doing some extreme spiritual practices An average human being, if it's doing anything on the extreme of that or anything on the reduction of that There is something going on that they may not know, that's all I'm saying So where I said food and like I said at the top of this concept of binging excessively on sweet Most people think it's a physical health thing only

Very less people actually think why, why do I go for sweet each time that I feel sad Why am I watching Netflix and then binging each time that I feel like I've had a breakup And it's like not the grief is not going why Of the hundred percent of my friends Yeah

I personally feel all hundred percent open to therapy Yeah That's amazing I'm probably a niche crowd because I'm exposed to people like yourself Right Therefore I choose my friends also according to a certain level of knowledge because that's what I seek from friendship on a very primal level

So all these knowledge oriented individuals are open to therapy Then I talk to the older generation and it suddenly becomes only 50% of them Because the rest of the 50% say I'm too old for therapy Or they deny these things and again this conversation has been had on the internet

That the younger generation is more open to tackling the mental health through professional health Right So the question I have for you is out of 100 individuals in India Yeah How many of them require therapy according to you? I think that we should look, I really wish we should change the word therapy to something else Because therapy is so pathological It brings in that kind of fear that first of all it brings up a fear and fear which is very normal for Indians Mental institution

That's that I need a mental institution to heal because there's something so wrong with me that I need like a team of doctors to tell me what to do This is the first image that comes to people's mind So older generations go through this because that has been the psychopathology of India

That is the word for it if anyone's interested They can look into the history, it's called psychopathology This entire field of making every mental issue about drugs, chemicals I mean, hospitals institutionalizing Okay So that's a valid for me

I go into saying this is a valid fear that older generation of Indians have that therapy means something is wrong with me Instead I would frame it as therapy means somebody is helping me grow Growth mindset versus fixed mindset stuff at the end of the day, Carol Dweck, it's literally that right

Now if you ask me from that lens I think 100% means like 100,000 to 50% I think everyone should be exposed to a growth mindset oriented practice Whether it's therapy or whether it's in our work Have you had a client who you think is relatively happy as compared to the average person that you meet

Yet is still seeking out growth and then comes to you and says hey what can I improve I think that's actually 90% of people who come to me because there's like a sense that okay this is very deep What she's talking about is very deep so if I have to be able to access that kind of depth

I cannot be so sort of not regulated in myself Right, like to go deep you have to be first regulated Explain both these men Explain what doesn't mean to be regulated and explain your own depth that that viratkoly type person sees in you I love viratkoys, it keeps coming up pardon that

Yeah, no I love him too So it's for example I'm sitting here right now and that I'm feeling the breeze I'm feeling the breeze from the AC I'm enjoying this conversation with you, I'm enjoying the sound of my own voice Somewhere outside I can hear maybe like a little bit of the honk in the traffic while coming inside It was chaotic in Bombay etc. I'm right now in fairly regular state of balance which would be regulation I'm not feeling emotionally high, I'm not feeling emotionally low

Even if I were to feel emotionally low you would maybe to ask me something triggering at get upset I can come back within 10 minutes is a big trigger within two seconds is a small thing like Oranwe should don't say that kind of thing

But I can come back, okay, there are others of us on there are states of our in our faces of our life where we cannot come back that quickly We really kind of go into an extreme state of sadness Go into kind of like a flashback, Ranveer said this but it reminded me of what my dad said

And because it reminded me of my dad said I am so triggered now that I have to leave the room we're done end of podcast That is a trigger that is a state of dysregulation So regulation is the ability to be in the now

In a way, yeah in a great way and to practice doing that so not just being the now because of one thing but to do that as a practice That stressors come but I'm able to stressors come but I'm able to And your regulation will look different from my regulation I'm a woman I have curly hair

I'm looked at a certain way on the street people harass me a certain way So my regulation on the road may look like me wearing your phones Me wearing sunglasses and just walking like I don't want to make eye contact for you Because you have a different physical presentation you may have a different way of regulating in public Mine has become wearing black clothes a lot How does that help?

It creates distance between you and a stranger And I like being with my own people at this stage of life I should actually I should take that tip from you That's an interesting way to put it Yeah so that's what you do to regulate yourself in a way to kind of manage the stressors of going out in public Is what you're saying and then kind of being bombarded by maybe XYZ Person sound that you don't want

So you're saying that the human mind in its natural state is built to actually trail away into the past or the future In normal environments of the earth Right And the people who are able to come back to the present moment and feel at peace They are the ones who have the skill of regulation polished up a little bit Yes and I'm saying just to clarify it not first not just earth anywhere Outside of earth also Like you can go to any realm Gotcha But sorry it is No no that's fine This is great

But secondly I would say the way you framed it is a little bit like around people I would say it's around behaviour Everyone is capable of regulation it's a skill that people can learn So there are I would hesitate to say that there are just generally regulated people versus disregulated people

Yeah those are the extremes Generally and we're in a week you know your life I know my life there are many days where I am disregulated And I'm probably not going to be going to show up for my job as the best Neha Bhat therapist that I can be And those are more disregulated days for me

On other days I'm more present I'm more aware so it's a practice it's a skill it's a behaviour is what I want to clarify I want to pause this and just high five Because it's been five minutes of recording this and I'm already like stimulated doesn't happen in my life Yeah let's give you a hug

I knew it will be a very good shoot day but I'm even more excited now Okay back to the conversation I was supposed to be able to do a regular and my second part of the question was about the depth they see in you Which I'm also seeing as a podcast at this moment that there's so much to unpack So say if that type of personality comes to you flourishing at business or life or relationships And yet wants to grow more What is the depth that they spot within you?

They would probably not spot a depth within me they would probably have to read some of my work And what I do is I give out a lot of information before people come in before people come Specifically for younger therapists younger people want to start their practice and want to do depth psychology Depth psychology what is that?

It's going under the ocean it the mind is the ocean it's actually staying on the in the bottom only And loving the swimming under the ocean I am a deep diver I love that when I was younger I used to hate going to the top because I used to feel it's also official it's also a physical level I don't like it I don't like it But as maturity happens you realize both are important you can't just be here and you can't just be here

That's psychological flexibility so depth psychology is an entire science of understanding the depth of the mind Which if you look at the analogy of the ocean how deep is the ocean actually bottomless we still don't know many aspects of the dark ocean

Fascinating subject so tantra all of these well just brought up the time to say all of these sort of sciences would be under depth The field of depth psychology Sorry I'm interrupting you so much Oh that's okay Because I'm really trying to understand this object

When we speak about the depth of the mind Yeah This is something I've thought about a lot Perhaps because I'm very serious about my own meditation habit Yeah And again it took me years to reach that point but I took up a meditation called the Hongsaw meditation Okay Soham Hongsaw Yeah

Because of YSS which is the autobiography of a yogi school That meditation took me maybe like a few months to get right but at its peak what it allows you to do is It allows you to switch off so deeply Right That you are awake

But you almost forget your own sense of identity so you don't know whether you're a man or a woman you don't know your own name You just know you're being meditating Right That is the deepest depth of my own mind that I felt Right And sometimes you know when you come out of that meditation Okay

But what sensing that depth of my mind gave me was the ability to look at the depth of my own life Right And I realized that all the moments that I get unregulated What's the Disregulated Were Moments where I got triggered because of something or the other

And then I think a lot about all my triggers And it would always boil down to things in my childhood Okay So when you are talking about the depths of the ocean And you know what's the absolute depths of a human's mind Is it primarily childhood or life experiences as well It's all

And let's connect this to what you said the Thai paper's saliti Question What you just did was a lovely way to actually convince someone who's a type of a saliti person That they have to go deep What you just said you just explained the mind Can we just can we just did you notice that?

No Okay you did that You did that really well You went into like what the depth is, how the mind is deep You spoke about your meditative practice You spoke about what that practice did to you Then you connected it to like a trigger that you had And then you found that it was it had started for you

Or like for example you were just saying like baby childhood And then you asked me does it come from only childhood or is it everywhere This is what you did First of all to understand that there's something deeper than the mind That there's the first layer of the mind

You need to actually understand the psyche In school colleges this is not taught so most people don't understand that There is a depth there's something called depth psychology There's something called layers of the mind With spiritual practices also sometimes it's so superficial

And surface like we're doing the meditation but we don't know the philosophy part So we don't understand my god this is so deep right So a type a person just going back to that they may not know at all So when they come to somebody like me just by being here they may not understand

So what I do is I help people sort of first get understand the practice of depth psychology I'm a lot of paperwork I ask them to read my book I ask them to like listen to something I've said Then I do the prep work to say hey Now we're going to get into a deep relationship where there are going to be digging Through like recesses of your mind So are you ready for that?

Okay then a type a person or whoever may say okay yes I'm ready for that Or they may say not at all like this is not interesting to me at all That's so let's bring in existential therapy now that's so this likes That soul may say I'm not ready for this journey right now I'll do it when my life isn't more crisis or maybe divorce or something very big That pushes me to ask this question What happens with 90% of people who come to me is that they're ready for this

So that's why they seek somebody like me versus not there are many kinds of therapies There are many kinds of inner workers and many kind of spiritualists who may not be interested in the depth of it And that's also fine that's just a journey So to connect it all back into what we just what we just was talking about Like caveman and how will they know and all of that?

This is how like it's a lot of prep work and we're in depth Not only for the therapist but also for the person who's seeking therapy to kind of go into what's coming up How deep are we going to go? Oh there is something called trauma history How do we uncover the trauma history? Why should we even uncover it at this age like at 40 or 50? Why should I even want to? Okay Does that make sense?

Yeah, no, no, I got exactly what you're saying My only doubt in this whole explanation is that again when we're talking about trauma history Won't most of that history textbook be about one's childhood? It could be about teenage It could be if I'm 40 years old it could be about 35 when I had a divorce This is what I'm asking so can you list out things that happen post the age of 22 post college Once the real world begins yes because it's obvious that okay bullying will have you know an impact

Some kind of sexual trauma will have played a role for some people in the childhood A breakup you know how about what your social experience was in college I think people are familiar with these aspects of mental health battles Yeah, what happens between 22 and 100?

Yeah, great question so let's think about a real life case example And please excuse the identities just for anyone who's listening like no I'm not using any real names But I'm using real examples of people that I work with So let's think about someone who at 25 experienced a lot of fame and then by 28 Had a total loss of their parent maybe some parent died one of their parents died Then their girlfriend broke up with them and in two years before they were hitting 30 etc

They had to lose a lot of money to someone that they started that company with Very common story Okay, for example this happens commonly now within Gen Z Who does a lot of startup work etc etc and India this happens very often Fall from grace

Because the grace came so quickly right or like early in life So the fall happens so that person may feel run beat that Man, I should just be able to get over this Okay, so their friend will tell them Chalya let's have some beer Or like let's go out let's just chill chill chill chill chill chill

But it's not happening nothing's changing I'm still crying I'm still feeling upset Then the friend will say just date someone else Just go have casual sex finish it so that you can just forget about it right Person tries that doesn't really have impact ends up breaking their other person's heart

Their own heart doesn't enjoy it doesn't enjoy any of these experiences This can go on to extreme things like self harm Addiction suicide happens all the time in our country also So post 22 to 100 there are many such losses that one may experience

That if I haven't actually taken the time to understand how I work I'm going to be setting myself up for some unrealistic expectations And I should heal from these three things divorce and death of my parent and breakup Or I mean company loss in like one month it should just be fine But this doesn't this is not real this is not how it happens is not how healing works Can you highlight the nature and role of time?

I've written about this actually I don't think time heals wounds You have to heal the wound but time gives space So if I break up with my girlfriend at 35 I will need on maybe until 37 To be able to have some space from the intense pain

First I'll go through intense pain grief grief grief loss loss loss loss That's not the time I can dig super deep right because I'll just be like I just want to get over the fear of the fear of the feeling of grief My chest is hurting man and then I'll be 37 and then I'll have space So time does that time gives you space You don't have space when you're going through the grief because you can't escape it You're in it but then how does the space get created with time?

With time but space itself is not the healing that's what people get wrong within I guess like mainstream ideas of healing that just give it time It's okay move on it'll take care of itself and it doesn't right Because time itself is nothing it's a it's a concept that humans have come up with

Time itself is not some especially healing but it doesn't have some powers In what I'm saying it's a it's a concept time gives us space Can I interject this might be a deeply masculine perspective Sure And of course it's coming from personal experience but I think I also speak for a lot of guys

The angle with breaking up with a girl when you're really young Especially if the girl has like left you or the girl has cheated Guys usually react by joining the gym And taking up physical fitness or taking up a sport And all this actually ends up helping you on some deep level

And then with time you kind of also heal from a breakup and you make peace with it You're able to even be friends with the girl again The other angle that I'd like to put alongside physical fitness is both yoga and meditation As activities that a lot of people are taking up nowadays

Now the thing is often see I feel very comfortable with you Primarily because of your experience but I have noticed that there are younger therapists Who tend to get very triggered if this point is also brought up about exercise and yoga and like meditation I'm not saying it's a substitute for therapy but I'm actually trying to understand the role that Physical fitness as well as what I call mental fitness plays in the process of healing alongside therapy

Oh have I? Yeah I'm just to affirm you I'm not hearing you say that one or the other is bad I'm hearing you say that there are gender roles and within gender roles there are expected ways of healing within a gender role So a woman will typically call a friend and process what happened from the beginning to the end A man you're saying will typically as your experience as a man will go to the gym Will choose a fitness hobby will choose something to kind of release that energy that's built up etc

Ranveer I ideally want a world where these masculine feminine polarities are not this extreme and this kind of to me It's ridiculous as a depth therapist that we have split apart into these parts Everyone has masculine feminine within them right so certain men that I know love to talk

They love to talk to their own friends over beer that's what that beer thing is about that Yaris Nehya Sikar Dhyan cheating Hogan this would whatever XYZ right and if it's somebody older Say for example a 40 year old man maybe who doesn't go for the gym doesn't choose physical activities

What is he choosing just like let's think what is he choosing how does he heal I don't know well I have not I have 40 year old friends I have 50 year old friends they don't open up So I don't know yeah yeah so the coping in India is a party is a gathering is a food is over food

Just bring some friends over bond watch a movie it's okay it'll just immerse yourself in social life Again this is not the same as therapy neither you're saying that neither I'm saying that But what I'm trying I'm trying to put together the parts like all these parts are important in healing

Women also choose the gym sometimes there are certain kinds of women who choose the gym right so therapy is a very specific practice And it's a very specific Western psychotherapy practice let's just make that clear

Okay that is meeting a professional one-on-one who's qualified who's trained who has these many years of experience and does all this work And then you go deep into the depths and the recesses of the mind so in my book for example I talk about therapy is a professional form of inner work

And then there are hundreds and thousands of other alternative forms of inner work just to make it very crystal clear And all of them are valid yoga gym food masturbation for some people casual sex they need that to feel better about themselves

I don't ascribe to it but they may one layer deep is this all about dopamine No that would be reducing it too much it's not all about dopamine but it's a major factor you want to reward Can you talk about all the factors that would be like the entire human history Well see if I've been okay let's stick cheating if I've been cheated on let's think together What has happened to the person who has been cheated on psychologically what will that person feel?

Rejection so not being good enough So low self esteem so you just lost low self esteem A breakage of trust exactly great point trust is broken so I will never I will really think like thrice before making a new friend even forget a girlfriend but a new friend So low self esteem lost so true Rapture rupture of trust not being able to see like there are healthy people around there are good people around who may not want Anything from me they may not be out to get me

So dopamine is one part of it dopamine is a reward system of the brain right but there are many all of these are also very valid reasons to want healing to want to want some kind of counter effect So I think the reason I mentioned dopamine is because I was trying to understand the biology behind sadness And my limited understanding limits me to just talking about hormones like dopamine and oxytocin and the disregulation of those hormones

Is that what sadness is or is there something that biology cannot encapsulate that your experience has taught you about human life? So it's all biology it's all biology trauma is trauma therapy is neuro biology it's a science under biology neuro biology is the science of the brain and the nerves and what's happening the into in the brain which is creating these kind of grief spots in the brain making a very lay person language grief spots in the brain

So this is all part of neuro biology within neuro biology there is something called neuro biology of trauma neuro biology of trauma is teaching us the science behind why some trauma takes so long for some people for example For example cheating for example if you and I have been cheated on at the same time at the same spot with different partners I may have a totally different response to it than you

You may be way more resilient to it for example you may take one month to heal I may take 10 years okay now why does that happen so trauma therapy tries to explain trauma therapy and neuro biology of the brain tries to explain this through many different ways a book to read as the body keeps the score by doctor best band a cock

Peter Levine's book I think it's catching the walking tiger there are many somatic therapy books now so now going a little bit it's body based stuff explaining what's happening in the body not just the mental thoughts of like how to heal etc but like what's happening in the body why am I not being able to change this behavior that I really want to change I really want to heal but I'm not able to why so just just connecting this me I continue on

Word good counseling is different from therapy therapy psychotherapy psychotherapy is different from nursing nursing a wound nursing is different from just unconditional listening that you can get from a friend each of these have their own roles counseling is more solution focused psychotherapy is depth focused it will go deep over a long period of time two years plus counseling may not last that long counseling is crisis oriented mostly as a field so I've got hurt I go to the counselor the

counselor helps me to get out of the hurt wonderful they did their job which you choose a depth psychotherapist they're not looking for you to get over the hurt they're looking for you to change from inside so that your literal soul heart your psyche inside and expand and make space for the pain

learn new skills be okay with the nature of human life which is quite about suffering anyway and this is where spirituality comes in for me and also lots of existential therapist where we're like wow spirituality has so many system is already the people who reject spiritual thought right after reaching the depth of their own brain and heart right what do they substitute that spirituality reading intellectual pursuits only so they may not really be open to

there being something beyond the intellect and I guess that's what they like that's how deep they want to go why now you know this is like not a professional opinion this is more just like observation observation it's too threatening to be it's too threatening to go towards things that don't make sense that are not socially accepted yet that science hasn't caught on to Western science of the last 200 years hasn't caught on to

it's too I guess it's shame which is also my entire book but it's like usually like it's about it creates a lot of I'll be ostracized from my community if I start believing in this if I start going deeper in this this is one aspect of what happens for urban Indians who don't want spirituality and don't connect it to healing but abroad I've seen that there's a lot of oppression also that that comes with spirituality

this idea of religious suppression etc so one wants to really reject it and say no no no that's too threatening I don't want to add one more layer there I'm just going to keep it to what I can understand my mother was bad to me it hurt in this way and I'm done okay a friend of mine Sarjanja taught me a very interesting word recently it's called being

scientific okay so being scientific is looking for evidence behind everything so you could have a scientific approach to history and say where is the evidence for this a scientific approach to biology saying where is the evidence behind this and allowing that to dictate your opinion right scientific is saying that if there's no evidence I'm going to reject it entirely without considering that it may even be a possibility and I think that a lot of people confuse their own sense of

scientists thickness as being scientificness if that's a word I get the concept that you're trying to portray yeah and I personally see it blocking their own sense of inquiry as well as empathy because then you're rejecting a lot of other human beings's opinions and a possible philosophy that could be a scientific reality but it's not become a scientific reality yet

I was just listening to Shriam talk at IIT Delhi about the just in this morning just this morning about the fact that he wishes that academic academic institutions like IIT Delhi MIT Harvard all of all of these very elite institutions

that create supposedly the best brains in the world who do the best work etc they should have training in the mind and it was very bold of him to just like say that but then the question asked him what he means and he said look just create accumulating knowledge is one step in the ladder but it is not the end of the ladder

it is literally the start of an unknown world right and so he explains us to academicians and some of them really take it well some of them have resistance to what he's saying of course but he explains that you have to then let go of the ladder to then go kind of in the

the psychology to go right kind of deep down or higher or however you like phrase frame that there is no ladder you have to find your own path you have to get lost a little bit you have to make your own connections now this is very scary right like to be lost again I've just gotten lost I've just gotten like the perspective of this client that we were painting this picture couple of minutes ago if I've been cheated on and I've just had this very deep grief

and it's like I talk about this in the example of a room I have an organized room I've color coded my war or my clothes a thief came literally went like took a knife and literally like shred shed shed it all my stuff apart and I woke up and I was sleeping I woke up in the morning and my room is totally disorganized right so that's what an experience is like when you don't you didn't ask to be cheated on one doesn't ask to be broken up with one doesn't

ask to be raped one doesn't ask to be violated or abused it happened to me so like a thief came to my room and disorganized now whose responsibility is it I can wait for the police but the police is not going to help me put my room together so it's mine so then I stay there and now I have to not only deal with my entire family being like what happened what happened let's help you let's help you let's say it's a good let's a healthy family or people being like yeah you only must have left that window open

you that's it's on you what a domo you are etc etc and I was sleeping I didn't ask for this I am not going to be able to do like deep spiritual digging etc at this point you see so it's I would first want to organize my room right I would first want to go back to how it used to be before the thief came in that may take me two weeks that may take me six weeks that may take me six months after that point I can go to the next meeting

I can go okay now I guess I want to reorganize the room so that's in a sense I guess a metaphor what's the most common form of trauma that you see as an outcome of your job especially in urban societies and you practice in America as well I do practice do you see a difference in like American civilian trauma versus Indian civilian trauma yeah I practice with global Indians all over the world

but I'm I and it's the recent like five years I've like streamlined my practice entirely to Indians who are based everywhere because I didn't see anyone talking about any of the trauma material from an Indian perspective I thought that was a major dirt what is the Indian perspective

our first of all our colonial history let's say that 200 years of being oppressed by an outside force and then us breaking our country's nation's civilizational spirit are not knowing who we are for me I'm a candidate I I I am unable to read Canada and it's a matter of shame for me right but when my parents you know what we're growing growing me up

it was looked at as a good thing to be English focused you know kind of look down upon your local languages not my parents into that maliciously I'm saying it was like normal in school I grew up in Delhi so it was normal in school to just be like you know it's okay in the first English first kind of thing so we we brought brought in as Indians we we bought into a lot of ideas which are to like demine the self right like demine our own language our own food our own culture our own religious identity

that's traveled over generations exactly that is intergenerational trauma maybe four five generations of Indians have been told hey your brown you're not as good as us yes your brown you're not as good as us and now imagine that kind of Indian leaving and going abroad and having not even a sense of like five cousins or six cousins there just in an independent house lots of money maybe they are a doctor

but there is no help there is no similar food there's no similar smell there's no similar touch there's no idea of hangout a da let's chill it's not like that it's a very different culture and there's trauma happening so the most common trauma that I see in my practice is sexual violence and domestic abuse these are the two things I specialize in all over the world yeah sexual violence and domestic abuse often they happen together

domestic again the term domestic abuse means physical violence or emotional violence from your partner or a family member yes yes I just use domestic violence because it's like a lay person term but the more correct term now is interpersonal abuse interpersonal violence intimate partner violence so that that's where my specialty lives within couples what happens when interpersonal violence ensues like starts

and that is can be emotional in nature that can be mental in nature that can be financial in nature one couple one partner holding all the finances and saying no you're not allowed to leave even if I break your jaw can the girl also hit the guy often happens often this is not necessarily a gender thing as it's been shown in media the depth of it is that these traumatic abusive events can happen beyond gender

however I will not dismiss the very obvious power dynamic of men versus women of course for man is doing it first and hitting a woman it's unparalleled compared to you know I mean in terms of instances also there are more instances of reporting that gets reported way quicker than a woman reporting that she that somebody reporting on a woman that she hit me

it generally it's disbelief for men so something else I work with is men who are survivors of sexual trauma can we they feel Indians they feel so disbelief they even feel like it has it's not possible for them to be raped my male clients will be like it's not possible for me to be raped it's impossible as a concept

and I did a YouTube video this many years ago 2015 when YouTube was just beginning to like pick up in India and I thought let me see like what the what the response will be like oh my god they were just like thousands of comments of people telling me like ma'am you know what I'm saying is not possible

so you know it's always the guy doing it and it cannot be we don't even have the body parts for rape and stuff like that and I was like wow people are not understanding that abuses abuse apart beyond gender abuses abuse it's possible for any between anybody okay well the most common trauma that you notice is sexual violence and domestic violence okay let's unpack both let's first actually go into sexual violence okay

this is rape molestation right anything else yeah sexual violence is divided into many categories depending on which state you live in it's the law is different the definition of consent is different and in the US it's more such polarized like every state has a different definition etc.

sorry these are I just speak about them so easily these topics but they're actually really triggering and I must tell people who are listening that please protect yourself when you're listening to this conversation because it can bring up a lot of triggers for people for even listeners and watchers audiences so like have a cup of tea like you know like have a blanket around you

like have something to write just take care of yourself because I'm saying a lot of things and probably the examples will become a little more extreme as we go into sexual violence cool so sexual violence could be defined as any act that basically takes control away from my body any act of malicious abuse that takes control away from my body so it can start with something that be no commonly in India is eve teasing I'm going out to buy milk

and the first thing I'm working on the road is like somebody's like oh big boobs or small boobs or some happens in happens happens has had happened to be so many times I've just been spanked on the ass just I'm just going to buy milk and the guy has gone on his bike somewhere you know and so I'm like just oh my God what was that so that is happens to all Indian women apparently

something you skip as an experience when you're a guy right when you have deep conversations with your female friends you realize it happens to all Indian women but please go exactly exactly it does happen in the worst thing is not just that you come home and then you're telling your family that it happened and the first thing your mother me say is where a different top

why is was the top like that where your assets out there for people's harm you know you called it upon yourself your father may not even believe you may not even have a relationship with your father where you were able to even say such a thing to him right so that's the second layer of trauma that that becomes quite acute

that the girl the let's say a girl in this example is not even able to express that runway then she's expected to get married by she's 20 by the time she's 21 and suddenly have great sex and have children it's impossible okay so sorry going back to sexual violence so that's if teasing is one aspect which can then it the second aspect can be something like the spanking thing I talked about like actively coming and spanking somebody hurting somebody to get something else out of them there is no

consent it is not flirting it's literally abuse right third type of sexual violence is rape where I literally go and I insert something either my own body part or an object people are raped in schools children are

raped in schools with pencils by sometimes by really malicious speed of files other like maybe somebody who's working at the school sometimes by teachers this has been reported sometimes by children their own age and there is no sexual abuse understanding in India so it just becomes like

children their own age well and then there's a trauma history why somebody the five like why is a seven year old trying to insert a pencil into another seven year olds in us why because that first seven year old has been troubled by someone yeah that could be one the other could be he's watching a movie that's depicting that and he's picking up picking that up or third could be you're watching maybe in your own home that is happening you're watching a parent beat up another parent

and you're thinking this is normal I can whenever I don't get what I want I can just force myself very common very common just hush hushed okay how do you deal with a case of someone having gone through some form of rape what is your process as a therapist in that case

because that's something psychologically very very traumatic like I can't think of any other human experience that's more traumatic than a rape yeah and I'd love for you to break it down into women getting raped as well as men getting getting raped because we don't talk about the second one at all yeah absolutely but tell me more about why you think that is for you personally like that's such a greeness act because I have a system a girlfriend

and fortunately all three of them are very open with their conversations with me yeah so they've spoken about the feminine perspective on rape as a concept and it's something you have to learn again as a guy because you're not you don't think of yourself ever getting raped as a guy but the more empathetic you get towards the women in your life you understand that okay

this in some cases is probably I put this and acid attacks in that same realm yeah yeah because acid attack is causing some form of psychological trauma for the rest of your life other than all the physical trauma you go through I would say rape is an acid attack for the mind okay yeah it's helpful for me to just like understand what you feel about it yeah it is one of the most heinous actually and not a lot of people talk about it

like it's one of the most heinous things because I don't think people understand the depth of it but it is because you're literally going into somebody else's body and releasing something there like either it's sperm or it's like a scar or it's like a force you're literally attaching your own body part to their body part

and then let like they didn't ask for it's like an unwelcome visitor and it's causing that scar for years man like an acid attack it doesn't leave you unless you do plastic surgery or something like this which requires something else privilege etc. access to a good good surgeon yes so it it is really a heinous thing to do rape not every psychotherapist needs to know how to heal rape because not every psychotherapist is also doing their own in a work in that

realm to actually heal themselves of that trauma first to be able to handle another person's trauma and not every psychotherapist or healer needs to because everyone can choose what they specialize in in the field of healing like I don't work with people who are 80 plus because that's not my specialty it's not my interest

somebody else may not work with sexual trauma but say you are a therapist that's really open to doing this work you will first do a lot of groundwork with your client to kind of again going back to regulation to get them out of this regulation especially if the rape happened on Wednesday you will not try to like give them spiritual techniques on Thursday you will really just work with them on being able to get out of bed

clean that part that was impacted put like like wash it wash it either with the loved one can be very triggering wash it by yourself and we're I know so many women including myself who just couldn't touch that body part for years because it felt so triggering it reminds you of that person who harmed you in the way that you never wanted to be harmed

okay after that point when that client reaches some kind of regulation to take six months typically then you can allow the client to say now what do you want to do would you like to report it would you like me to help you have a conversation with someone in your life about it so that they know why you're having panic attacks why you're having nightmares why you can't have sex why your boyfriend can't touch that body part or your girlfriend can't touch that body part example for example

the client may say yes Neha I'm ready or the client may say Neha not at all are you mad it's too fresh for me then it's another six months of work after that point we reach the trauma therapy has it's all its you know phases my book has described all the phases but you literally go into the second phase of like now moving beyond the trauma trauma trauma into more like okay now we're back to trust we can trust

I ourselves a little bit now I'm able to touch that part I'm able to not get really triggered all the time now what do you do once you establish trust with yourself just logically what would be the next step I have masculine perspective yeah yeah I love it moving forward in life okay in other aspects of life yes and I love the masculine perspective by the way there's nothing like yeah I wish

it's only you and how are we hide the badwala who have spoken to I was a senior therapist a lot of the junior therapists I speak to it's like walking on excel sometimes I don't blame them I think it's the nature of being a 20 to 23 year old therapist but you have to be very careful about conversations there this has been my experience of course I'm generalizing but to support what you said every therapist has their own journey also therapists are super human they're also in that phase

where 20s are supposed to be a bit more polarized you have these opinions and your opinions show up in work 30s are supposed to be a bit more mature like if you travel the healthy trajectory of a psyche 40s you get a bit more settled 50s you're doing innovative work 60 70s you're at the top of your field where they're doing something amazing with like trying something new so that masculine thing the perspective that thing you just said I mean another way to trauma

way to look at it is yes logically once if I have more if I've reestablished connection with my vulva for example or if I'm a guy with my penis now I'm ready to now establish connection with the external party then I may be ready to date after one and a half two years once I'm dating though doesn't mean it's gone now now I'm dating you for example and I wear is it fine to use this example and we're in bed and you are

like really a lovely amazing safe empathetic dude but your touch is reminding me of the abuser because we are so safe now and you've been such a great boyfriend to me that I am actually my wounds are opening up more because I'm so safe with you

now is when the when the healing has to go a little bit more deeper and the survivor has to do a lot more work to kind of tell herself or tell himself that run we're not the rapist run we're as my boyfriend he's the safe boyfriend but the rapist is still the rapist so now shall I tell run we're about it that would be a great step my boyfriend should know what I've been through if he loves my body he should love his history if I love his body I should love his history right I should go deeper into it and then the healing becomes really beautiful and we this is the point of my

job I enjoy a lot when cup when this this is the heal like year three when people are just like wow like all the trauma therapies now effortless in my life I can now sit with my partner and explain these things very deeply and when I'm triggered my partner can just give me a hug bring me me a cup of coffee we can watch something together and slowly ease into sex and wow now I have a child I'm happy I can move I can move not move on I can move

does it ever fully leave the memory of being raped no so your job as a therapist is to eventually meet them okay living with that past truth I would phrase it differently you said you did a great job of it but instead of only rape think about anything that has broken you apart in such a way that you just could not put the pieces together and there was no support for it and everybody in your life was telling you you're the problem okay

can anyone really heal from a scar like that so what ends up happening instead I push people away from saying fully heal there is no such thing called fully healed even in our eastern spiritual practices there is no such thing that an enlightened yogi doesn't have shadows as long as you have a human body you have shadows right I guess the best outcome for me as a depth psychotherapist who does sex therapy who's an art therapist and all these like skills I have and who's interested in spirituality would be that I'm eating

that I'm able to make the person so expansive in their heart that they're not going back to who was Neha before she was hurt who was done weird before he was hurt now it's a new Neha and they may be 100 times different version 100 times better version sometimes I don't want to say like but it's a it's a it's a totally different schema of myself rather than earlier gotcha again going back to growth mindset that's another way of freezing the job called being a therapist

and Kinsungi the the Japanese art of that broken was then you put it together with the golden things you don't just throw it you put it together and then you put golden glue and it's a new was Wabi Sabi Wabi Sabi we just spoke about rape that's too heavy and incident in people's lives not to compare different kinds of situations

right but I think something that's and please correct me from no I think something that's even more common is some form of sexual abuse in childhood which doesn't have to be rape but it could just be an uncle or an aunt or some family member or taking sexual advantage of you or a babysitter taking sexual advantage of you and that's a very common thing that you see in urban societies we more common than one would think absolutely

everything that you spoke about rape the same logic applies here no because it's a little bit different so chapter one in my book is about a person called kusha but kusha is someone who is a lovely bright courageous hippie-dippy woman where you look at her and you'd be like wow what a lovely girl she's chill she came into my therapy office and the first thing she's like I have rage issues I'm angry I'm not able to I'm not able to we duck duck duck we got to I'm not able to masturbate

I'm not able to feel pleasure we duck duck duck the memory that came up for her and we was that my uncle was watching me there was some random uncle neighbor uncle in India that was watching me change as a six year old and I screamed because I could feel the disgust in my body that this is wrong it should not happen

and luckily my mother came and my mother asked me what happened beta are you all right she didn't slap me many mothers are slapping many many many many parents have an opposite impact parent would slap the kid I know it sounds unbelievable even to me but like you know you would be surprised how often that happens that a child is saying something traumatic and the parent is like just shut up

you know just shut up go to the wedding like especially if it's an uncle let's a part of the family go hug the uncle say sorry to the uncle even in 2024 oh 100% because these concepts are so elite right now still they're by elite I mean they're knowledge they're like in silos they haven't really reached all of society still which is why this work is so important to speak about

and thank you for all the empathy I just want to affirm thank you for all the empathy you are like showing right now as a man in this podcast because as people even women look at you having this experience this is what they want from their partners they want their partners masculine partners to feel the pain with them what ends up happening often is that the masculine is so I guess sweet like the man is the guy so sweet he wants to help

but he goes into fixing mode to be like what okay what should we do like what is that is the masculine thought process sure it's just how we are programmed as guys since you're a kid sure sure sure and it takes a lot to unprogrammed that sure and the only reason I think I've learned that is because I've dated some evolved people who taught me that step by step that listen what you're doing here is wrong but I would prefer that you react in XYZ way to this particular situation

which is don't give advice primarily especially for something that one can't give advice for because it didn't happen to me it like in the body it impacted my body absolutely and I I mean I think the masculine response as you're framing it I don't fully agree with the framing but let's go for it let that framing

it's very solution focused and it's really helpful just the pacing is wrong it can't happen that quickly so so so as you're explaining this to me and as I'm seeing your face and I'm seeing the empathy that's coming to light a lot of what I do in couples therapies to teach this to teach the any partner sometimes the woman is also not able to show empathy

so moving into women is that fine can we finish this childhood yes kusha yeah so kusha kusha basically spent a couple of years further in healing and was able to then connect the dots to say that oh my god it's that gaze that has like penetrated so deep into my soul into my life into my night life that when I'm masturbating as an adult as a healthy woman with a healthy sexuality the first thing I'm thinking about is that uncle's eyes

and it's making me like gross out so she would puke and she would go into all sorts of states and then we have sex positivity culture which is so new and so nice but everyone is telling you come on use these sex toys if you're not using these sex toys you're not liberated come on come on have 100 partners why not like it's you know you're trying to get heal from the repression of Indian society

but there's no trauma informed lens so she was not understanding that she cannot get there because she's holding in the childhood trauma so for kusha it was childhood for others it's teenage for many people it's midage middle age trauma can happen at any point specifically about this sexual trauma in one's childhood kind of situation

what are a few common outcomes you see in those adults both men and women like how you spoke about this anger during sexual situations this is one outcome I'm sure there's more what are some common ones you see in urban society and then again what's the process too I don't want to use that fix that but then what's the heal yeah he would be a nice way to put it anger not in sexual situation sorry kusha's feeling angry about not being able to access pleasure

so that's one major outcome in somebody who's been abused you can see that pleasure for them is difficult to access there is either a very low self esteem that I don't deserve it I'm bad I'm dirty can I go into a difficult place example please so one of my most either I think very heartbreaking cases was a child who was abused by the driver and the driver came in the child's mouth

and lied about it and said that it's just water and the child six year old child is not able to tell the difference between water see men I mean has no cognition the brain has not developed this went on for 12 years like years as the child sexuality is growing into becoming like an adult the driver still like literally grooming the child to say yeah I'll just put some water in your mouth don't worry it'll take two minutes it'll take two minutes it'll take two minutes

now this is also rape but but it is in it's it's literally childhood sexual abuse in the way that like has been so it's so extreme and it's that it's defined this person sexuality this person is now whatever in their 20s mid 20s right and is not able to experience what healthy sexuality for them means so this is where they've gone into addiction they've gone into all sorts of other things

coping to kind of get away from the shame they feel every time they try to have what is supposed to be healthy sex like giving a blowjob to somebody you love supposed to be normal this is normal it's not so but persons not able to it brings up grief goes into panic attacks for days and days and days so this is one way that it shows up for let's say men like male survivors of abuse for female survival survivors of abuse it's intense shame because in India there's a

shaming aspect also being a woman and being sexual so those two kind of combine and typically feel feels like I should totally close my body up sex is for reproduction only and many of many folks may not even choose to be sexual many many women may not choose to be sexual many women may not may choose to be married but never tell their partner what happened because it's so

disgusting it brings up so much disgust for the self that how could I as a child why was I chosen why didn't he choose my friends why would he choose only me and typically I know it sounds horrible but many times these girls are told it's because you are so sexy you were so beautiful at six you was such a beautiful fair child this fair skin fetish that we have right like you

are such a beautiful fair girl that you know he did this to you but like if you were not that pretty this wouldn't have happened like crazy stuff like this is told and how do I know this because my clients and tell me like oh yeah I went to my best friend and she said this I went to my best

friends mom and she was saying like yeah you should wear a different dress to your birthday party you should you know I'm a six year old so that's something that is so for men it manifests is a lot of avoidance as women it man typically it manifests is a lot of shame the other ex-I

spectres it can also manifest as hyper sexuality that I'm just like now going to be so risky with my sexual experiences that I'm just really trying to avoid the pain of that first touch that felt so horrible to me man right and a

lot of a lot of women that are very hyper independent and successful a lot of men this is the type of personality type that you said before I mean I see in my observation I see choosing a more like casual sex relationship to life and avoidant thing and being like I'm just

just gonna do my thing I'm good I'm good I have money this is enough this is enough but pushing them to okay yes money is great but what's under the surface and then you see the body like shaking yeah what is hyper sexuality yeah great question and kind of a

philosophical question actually what is it to you again when you ask me a psychological question I'm trying to think of the faces that have come to visit my life at different points and I don't know man I think when most of your mind is occupied with thoughts about sex more than other thoughts in your adult life I don't think teenagers the right time because the hormones are a role to play that's one aspect of it really having high body counts for me again high body count low body count is very

subjective but you meet people with like body counts of above like 10 15 20 at what point does it truly become high not understanding the value of commitment or a stable relationship that's an aspect of hyposexuality maybe some form of very obscure fetish you know some very peculiar

fetish again I'm just doing a thought experiment yeah that's what I'm asking you for and I think I mean I'm asking you this question back because you're not in the psychotherapy realm right because we want people to understand these things based on the stereotypes that the mind has like that's exactly right it when I say hyper when we say hyposexuality many listeners will be coming in with like so many of these kind of some of these things you

said are stereotypes some of these things you said are more commonly found fetish and kink is another totally different episode it's it's a it's a totally different aspect of this I would define hyper sexuality as anything that is not actually giving me the outcome that I'm looking for so why am I having sex I'm having sex for pleasure

why and in that moment in that pleasurable moment I need to feel connected I need to enjoy the experience this is this is why generally why do we eat food it should feel my stomach when I do too much when I'm binge eating I'm not connected to my stomach yeah I'm just eating and I'm watching that show and it's been three seasons and it's the whole day is gone

right that is need kind of really going into my hyper response I've gone into too much of that thing and I've kind of gone very far away from the initial purpose of why I did that thing so when I'm not actually having sex for pleasure in the way that it feels pleasurable to me and I'm able to feel satiated I'm probably in the territory of hyper sexuality

but I want to really kind of put a boundary on this conversation because in India runway there is so much shame around even having more than one partner in life we don't live in these times today most people are dating multiple people most people have to have more than one to five partners to reach the ideal relationship they want

I don't want anyone to listen to this and think that oh I'm now have to shame myself for having too much sex that's not hyper sexuality hyper sexuality is not too much sex hyper sexuality is that the sex that I'm having is dissociated I'm actually not connected to that moment

can I say one more thing please please hyper sexuality can also manifest as porn addictions which I see a lot in today's urban Indian practice it's sex therapy that I'm so dissociated that my orgasm is only happening to that one porn video of that porn star that I saw at 16 18 whatever

and it's the only video that gets me off so when I'm with my partner it's not getting me off when I'm and I'm literally masturbating to get through the day I'm not masturbating for pleasure I think you have probably spoken about this before etc I'm remembering

it's a trigger for dopamine rather than a sexual act how do you deal with trying to get someone out of a porn addiction in psychotherapy against to clarify we are not someone's coach to start first we are going to listen to what the client is telling us so we have to we are actually their follower

after the first couple of years or first year how do you have a deep trauma is then we become the coach then we change the role and we go okay enough drama work now let's move into action and like let's start the stuff to heal so if someone's coming to me with a porn addiction

I'm not going to be sort of coaching them out of it I'm going to go deeper into the aspects of why it's there what do they like about it what do they hate about it when do they do it right and that's when it gets really interesting and weird

to think about it from this lens that many people are doing it to avoid social gaze like to avoid like their family's pressure many people in India urban reality is living in joint families where is this hardly any privacy people are living eight, nine people in a one BHK2 BHC reality of Bombay reality of Bangalore to BHK5 people so adults healthy adults 22 to 20 to 40 when your libido is supposed to perform its best 21 to like say 40 for the guys

where is the space so porn addiction is a way to escape the pressures of everyday living also and using that as my kind of dissociating like my tax my relaxation time but it's now gone away from relaxation and is going to escape is sex smoking a cigarette in the bathroom and then it becomes 10 cigarettes and my pack is done

it's like I need to get to the work meeting and I haven't orgasmed but I have to orgasm to get to the work meeting and so how do I orgasm just by watching that one particular video on loop so that it's just done if I do it is once or twice in a week this is normal this is healthy masturbation is fine but I'm doing this five times a day or three times a day and I'm using masturbation

to lead me to the next activity how do you go into this person's mind and then try pulling them out because you said you follow them in yeah I'm sure you lead them out of how do you lead them out that's the entire craft so let's do a little bit of like studies so you know to be a therapist you have to do like a BA

and MA you have to then get into an internship then you have to do a supervision you have to do your own therapy you're not allowed to graduate from some training programs without your own therapy because you cannot it's not ethical to heal someone without knowing what it means to be healed by someone right it's not possible so to be a good guru you have to be a good shishya same way

after that we have two years of supervision so you actually choose a supervisor that's a little senior to you who then takes you under the wing and then helps you with the most difficult cases but they're not helping you as a coach they're actually in psychotherapy mid-earing off your own mind so they're saying Ranveer

you know in the session you came to Nihah you look for advice but when I said the word trauma or rape you kind of twitched like this and your face did something different and I noticed that what is that like for you and Ranveer we have never thought about it right because there's nobody sitting there mirroring that for him

he can't do it by himself through meditation right that's different so then Ranveer goes into his mind and like yeah why did I twitch and so with a therapist he understands the twitching and where it comes from and blah blah blah as he's working on his own triggers and his own body responses he becomes a better and better therapist because he sees oh my body twitched like this so when somebody else does what could it mean for them that's the craft Ranveer that's the craft

now I've added art therapy on to this because I'm an art based therapist I love visuals I get into visuals with people so my healing modality is very spiritual where it's I bring in like this is why I was interested in the book in your office but I bring in a lot of like deep art and painting and watercolours etc to lead someone into like the dream space and what it's bringing up nightmares etc sometimes people paint with me in my studio I have a studio so people paint with me

sometimes we dance sometimes we sing this is expressive arts therapy it's all about the body so effectively each person has their own solution and each person is their own human beings so it's all subjective solutions yeah but there are fields so art therapy is a recognized field music therapy is a recognized field so you have to train in it the solution can be whatever that focus on the client I'm still stuck on that porn addiction question

okay so the the question at us is how do you get someone out of that addiction because that's why they're coming to you in the first place that would be the answer what you just gave that that every individual is as different no two leaves are the same no two flowers are the same no two brains are the same even in the even twins even best friend twins are not the same each one will have a actually we say this in trauma therapy a lot

no two people have the same parents no two siblings also have the same parents you have a totally different experience of your parents based on who you are and you know then we have Sanatana Dharma and all these wonderful wonderful philosophies in our own culture which talk about why and the karmic

karmic aspect etc etc which is much more it's like three levels deeper you know but then just to kind of encapsulate what you say absolutely a good therapist especially as he or she or they mature gets better at being a good surgeon so like finding out what this person needs leading them gently to it I definitely want to talk to you about those spiritual aspect of mental health we'll get into that conversation it's going to be its whole it's going to be a chapter in itself

and go back to the conversation we were having originally about rape we didn't talk about men getting raped by women as well or men getting raped by men or by trans people anybody men getting assaulted men getting raped what is the most common one you see because I'm queer myself I'm bisexual I see a lot of queer men in my practice so I see them male on male more but that's because people will choose a queer therapist because they feel more connected to someone like that

I think if you ask someone else with a different identity they will say a different set is different things so we have to really depend on proper statistics for this we don't have it yet for India okay so there's no fixed answer it can be there's no fixed answer but overall upper upper say if you say it is more common for a male on male rape to get more attention than it is for a woman doing it to a man in India because there is can you can be going deeper

homophobia is part of let's say sexual repression right like in especially in India there's a sense of like yes yes yes yes yes I'm not you I'm not you feminine you feminine man you will be it it it I mean automatically goes there for someone that it's an attack to my masculinity that you may be a different kind of man or something so there's a kind of like homo and and for women for lesbians it's a little bit different where it becomes hyper sexualized so they are they are these two lesbians

they are probably doing it for me this is part of my own history that I've written in the book and talked about a lot that like in college when I was coming out as bisexual so many of my own guy friends were like oh are you going to perform for us like are you going to like I like what do your parents think like isn't this something you do for attention so it's always seen as like it's performative because of porn because of what you see in porn

so two lesbians cannot be in love unless they have a penis they cannot be in love that's the idea wow yeah that's the mainstream understanding so homophobia towards men and and and bisexual men have it horrible bisexual men have no acceptance very less acceptance from other men straight men from women straight women from lesbian women also

because they feel like I'm not sure what this guy is about and there's kind of this threat feeling these are these are the ruptures within inside the queer community also but in general men are like just generally seen as always stoic powerful and masculine responses as having these masculine responses so it's always seen as their abuse is kind of not that big they're making a big deal they should just shut up have you seen any men in India who got raped by women?

currently all the time yeah my current sorry I'm asking you such a basic question but how because for sex you need an erect penis and then if you're being forced to have sex the erection can happen right it's an involuntary erection that's the major doubt that most men have about being raped by a woman okay that's one aspect I'll allow you to expand on that but the other question is what was the intention of the woman involved because especially when it comes to Indian women

I in my experience and a lot of Indian guys would probably agree with me Indian guys love and admire Indian women as compared to women from other countries because there seems to be more empathy in the Indian woman for whatever reason I don't know Indian girls feel like that as well

but there is a sense of like Manta in Indian women much more as compared to Abhul Ashnarities so I personally as an Indian man can't fathom the possibility of an Indian woman raping an Indian man correct me if I'm wrong and please expand on this full topic yeah so so survivors will find what you said really triggering because it's full of the stereotypes that one is trying to also kind of correct in mainstream culture

which is why I think it's really good that you asked it in this way so we'll go step by step firstly now Ranveer I want to also bust a myth that I don't think it's Indian women and Indian men I think it depends on the context the cultural context you come from your Punjabi as I understand Punjabi masculinity and Punjabi femininity

has a very different manifestation from a Bengali masculinity has a very different from Kannada Kanada Kanada culture women are more dominant so when I was used to live in Delhi I just stick out like a sore thumb because I am more like assertive about my opinions I speak loud like a loud voice and I like interaction with people

people were like what is this like and a lot of my Punjabi friends which is like you know but but in Karnataka this is like oh great she's ahead of the house love her like let her just like no problems this is not been a problem for me growing up in my cultural heritage so the MAMTA factor is also very culturally kind of like deep you have to you have to understand work that person's background history is

MAMTA is not necessarily something that let's say Kanada Kanada women yes we nurture men but it's not necessarily seen as the main thing we associate to hard work getting shut shit done okay so you'll see like typical Bangalore boys being much more softer much more nurturing actually so this is a Kanada Kan thing so that's what I mean okay that's what that's the problem with colonial thinking man like it's all written from other perspective so we think it's true for us

actually our culture so rich and diverse and nobody's written on it like these things that other unless you have experience you're not going to know so coming to rape now erection is one part of the process just like if a vaginal wetness or lubrication is not a sign of a rousal it's a sign of maybe discharge it's a sign of maybe a little rousal but not consent maybe she's enjoying it but she hasn't said yes please enter me please touch me this way

this is why this topic is so difficult to talk about and most people don't want to get into it because it has it's like a thorny path with a hundred and fifty rocks the moment you step everything is difficult to explain okay so with male rape erection is one part of the process now if there is a woman who is the assaulter let's take an example that I'm currently working with somebody I've written about in the book that I changed names

it's an older woman house help and then another example and auntie who's going towards a younger 17 year old boy okay now the sexual abuse part is not just in the horniness the sexual abuse part is the horniness is probably natural for a 17 year old boy for a 40 year old older woman that she's attractive

she's has maybe there's a mother thing going on like I mean I find nurturing women sweet etc etc but for her to abuse the dynamic is the rape part is to go into it and maliciously use his innocence and vulnerability towards her and then force herself upon her force herself upon his penis erect or not force herself upon his penis and not wait third fourth part of the story not wait for any signal from him

or is he is he is he is he all 17 is actually illegal right because it's a child still a child so in this example just forcing myself onto a young honey boy and saying that yeah I'm going to use you for my pleasure like a dildo like I would use a dildo so in this example that I'm talking about this is an older maid who does this to a younger child

and because we live in sexual repression the maid has normalized it that woman has normalized it that he's a young fellow no he's probably like interested in me like this is this is hot so the person that I'm working with that I that I let's say I used to work with he's said to me many times that my fetish towards older women comes from there like I like much older women

because it was like 10 years of this where I thought this was normal that I was in love with someone you know 15 years my senior when I was a kid like younger young a child it's only later when I started talking to my friends about sex and just understanding other relationships that I saw this much age gap is a little weird and more than the age gap she never asked me explicitly like do you know what we're doing do you know what this is I was just seen as an automatic pleasure mechanism for her

so he may even have been enjoying it at that point this is a hard thing to talk about with sexual violence yes run weird like do you enjoy the eighth paratha that you're having when you're gluttonous in front of Netflix probably so but does it mean that so paratha is like self-inflicted but if someone is sitting there and just forcing things on down your throat

and say and it's like sugary substance or it's a substance you enjoy and there's a large age gap and they know this is bad for you they know they are getting more from that equation than you they know they know they're changing your mind about this then it's on the the person with more power there either age or status or whatever so the thing with the male thing is that men are just not believed as people with the ability to even say no

because it's constantly associated with you if you were erect that means you were honey that means you gave the signal you see how complex it is though but and can I say one more thing this is why it's hard to prove in court and this is also why these these these topics are very difficult to talk about because first thing is people are like where is the evidence how do we believe who do we believe

and these are all very justified questions which require very deep philosophical thought and proper justice systems and a healthy conversation between the law setters and the police people and the general public and all and of course we don't live in such a society in the world where this is happening so what's happening right now is everyone's in their own polarized bubbles like survivors perpetrators police everybody's doing their own thing

but this relational aspect of what we're doing right like you're saying few things I'm putting it into my context I'm saying few things you're taking in your this is very healthy this is not happening source of who's paying the brand the traumatized getting more traumatized but what is male trauma as an outcome of being raped by a woman like what what happens

and then like how you spoke about this particular case where now he's attracted only to like older but not just that he's not just attracted he's not feeling like he's okay fine if he was just attracted and that was his preference he is feeling like that his rape was not even true that it didn't even happen to him because he must have been the sex object

so he's looking at himself as an object that is to be served that that has to serve women in his life so this is a common aspect of rape also that many men are not able to distinguish between a healthy sexuality and a sexuality for someone else

this is where codependency comes in people pleasing comes in not being able to say no comes in the woman is thinking it's consensual he's getting into many experiences of sex three years later realizing with his girlfriend that actually he didn't want it like the whole of 2021 he was getting triggered or they'll have panic attacks they'll go into the bathroom and cry

they'll not tell their partner that they're crying and they'll manifest as like rage it'll be a manifest as irritation as distraction as workaholism got it okay it enters other aspects of your life as well other than just the bedroom okay which is what Anashem is about I mean at the core of it why I wrote the book is actually to do the details of this to explain to a lay person how what you're seeing on the surface is just one part of the story there is an iceberg

especially if you love your partner then that iceberg is your problem okay moving on at this point I've understood that I can talk to you for an infinitely long amount of time but because this episode has mostly been about sexual trauma we'll limit this conversation to those topics okay a key topic that I want to talk about is marital rape okay you spoke about rape in general how does the dynamics of healing and growth change if it's your partner your life partner who is rape you

and again additional question do we also see cases of women raping men you yeah excellent question very hard question and will be a different answer from the legal point of view okay you can give both tangent is that I worked in rape crisis for around seven years in Chicago I was working as a rape crisis therapist only in Chicago for seven for a very long time and studying it

in the US and we let's start there there is a binary around funding funding goes towards political causes that you agree with funding does not go towards political causes you don't agree with so I had a I was working for a lovely organization that was survivor focused now survivor focus means if you have survived rape assault different from reality though sometimes people who survive things also end up perpetrating things

right it's a cycle of abuse like if it happened to me I may be I made it to you I made it to somebody else I may not but sometimes I'm if I'm unconscious and I'm in that cycle it whatever happened to me I will repeat it whatever happened to me I'll repeat it so now this gets very complex because now if I'm married and I'm in love and this person really also loves me and my cycle of abuse is just repeating unconsciously

as the perpetrator I may not realize what I have done because I think oh it's part of this journey of growth that I'm having with my partner I did this once but I will not do it again or it happened etc. on the end of the receiver it is extremely extremely traumatizing because the thing the the one person that was supposed to be safe for you

especially ideologically for your entire life like the idea of that that my wife is my safe person my husband's my safe person which is why they are my life partner when they force themselves on me and don't wait for me to say anything so how does rape layout just to go into it very classic example for plays happening I'm not asking you I'm turned on I'm putting my body on your body

whichever part you are kind of a little bit uncomfortable but you're not able to tell me fully stop many reasons for this maybe you're a slightly submissive person maybe you don't know your body well maybe you just are in love with me and you think this is normal maybe you have always experienced sex which is forceful and violent so you don't know that it's supposed to actually be based and I should ask you etc.

reasons why I don't ask you to stop but I'm visibly uncomfortable and I am just interested in finishing the experience for me okay so I go at it now let's look at male male if the man is a perpetrator or anybody with a penis is a perpetrator I'm I'm forcing forcing forcing forcing I'm ejaculating

then I'm turning around going to sleep not even checking with you how did you feel are you okay forget it no no this was for me so just shut up kind of thing this is a very violent and very textbook example I'm using of a man being the perpetrator the husband now if it's the woman being the perpetrator and she's the wife she's using the same position that she uses generally that the two lovers use maybe it's the missionary or maybe it's like sitting on top of him whatever she likes

she's not waiting for him to say yes no I'm not okay maybe he's squirming a little bit under her and he's saying no actually I'm not in the mood for it and she just goes you're never in the mood for it what's wrong with you let me just push you a little bit that's okay you'll enjoy it once we do it you'll enjoy it okay ha ha ha ha ha ha he he he he he he he and then suddenly it becomes really painful because that she's really forcing herself and she's turned on

she wants to finish her orgasm he's actually flashbacking into the hell put it that or the driver who came in his mouth or he's flashbacking he's actually not able to say that I hate this or your drunk stop I don't like I don't want to have drugs sex with you because it's considered normal in a healthy marriage that you know your partner can't be unsafe right your partner actually loves you so everything your partner does is kind of okay

so in so going back to the legal point of it this is very hard to prove these nuances are very hard to prove and caught they are very hard to prove with police cases they are very hard to prove with advocates lawyers because the law is looking for more concrete evidence like scar and consent and how many times and so and obviously

you don't put a camera in your bedroom right like so this is the difficulty of reporting in India it is more severe because in terms of ripman are being unable to report because this is not even considered a possibility in mainstream Indian culture that maddle rape is even a possibility I would say that's the legal perspective with a little bit of a psychological perspective I just want to take it

a little further to your question of healing healing I would say you know if I could write like 10 books and like somebody could just like dictated off of like like I just write it for me I think I would be able to do so much justice to it because there are just so many nuances in the healing healing aspect of this of the

marital rape broadly also classified into did this enter a divorce or separation or did this stay together I know and such a polarized binary perspective because the reality of that is not so simple yeah I mean at the end of the day I want to be loved at the core of it I want to be

loved I've been loving you for 10 years you've done something and you have possibly always been like this and I just know it and one day I listen to me how about spot cost and I realize maddle rape is a thing and it triggers me especially because run we're being so empathetic it triggers me that my husband's not like this and suddenly I realize wow I am literally living within a user I am not going to just get up and leave because at the core of it I have children I have a family I have in

the house I'm invested in this man man is invested in me and he's an abuser these are the realities of abusive relationships interperson abusive relationships which start which have sexual violence within them that's why the healing is again very contextualized one couple may want to be together now the therapist has to be qualified to not bring their own projections in it and say you should leave you should leave the best thing is to do is leave may not be run be I'm not paying their

own budget I don't know what it's like I need to listen to them now does but it's the conflict is there like does it mean I just allow this to continue in under my gaze right under my healing gaze no the job of the good therapist is to de-escalate and ensure that at least my clients know that this is unacceptable and cannot keep repeating now after that point do they stay together or do they leave is something that I cannot control no system can

unless there are children when there are children the law has more of authority to say this is what's good for the child this is what's not good for the child but the reality is many of these cases go under reported we spoke about why so it remains in this gray binary area now how it moves into like deeper into healing is child grows up in an environment like this where they're looking at they're hearing the these episodes every night or every couple of nights where your parents are not happy

with each other you can see that there is a kind of forceful dissil for a visceral dislike of each other but yet you're sleeping in the same room yet they are coming to parent teachers meeting together and you're growing up with this idea that this is what a normal relationship is okay and somewhere because children are like sponges they're extremely smart very perceptive always mirroring their parents remember children never listen to their

parents they are always mirroring in fact subgroups at this so many times I love what he says about this topic they're always mirroring what the adults are doing in the room so they're growing up with this kind of like intense idea the idea that intense dislike of each other is normal marriage ends up like this somebody hurts somebody life is like this life is like this do you think that person is if they're not in an inner workspace

you think that person is ever going to change their beliefs about this right where are they going to take that belief out onto their partner this is where we then hear people saying I'm just like my dad I thought I was not but actually I've ended up doing this exactly so again coming to the healing part very very nuanced not every therapist should be putting their own projections but we do and then the healing changes according

to who you get as a therapist what's the common outcome that you see when marital rape is involved like practically in real human society what ends up happening people not leaving I see mostly the situation being that

okay I'm going to cry about it I'm going to really like regret that it happened to me but at the end of the day is it such a big deal because police is also asking for evidence I don't have that evidence but does the situation get corrected no I would say commonly no I would say it is the rare 0.1

percent of cases that do get corrected commonly it is more normalized run we see change is a very difficult thing and we have to understand this as depth people like people who think deeply about the world that it will not happen quickly because it requires a lot of ego investment to be different

from who you were yesterday or different from who you were last minute for me to really listen to you and connect to who you are today I have to be egoless you have to be egoless we have to keep our knowledge aside and just connect us to individuals that's when we're going to have a great

conversation right this is difficult this is not easy I have to really work on myself to come to this conscious relationship with myself my triggers my past my future then my wife has to do the same thing the reality of life is most people are still very much struggling for basics so most people end up prioritizing the basics which is are do we have rent are our kids in school then I will suffer typically what happens is the woman ends up taking a lot of shame the man goes into avoidance

Could there be a couple watching this podcast together listening to this and saying hey that's our reality and then switching up and having a conversation at least I would say so I mean that's the 0.1% as a therapist what would your advice to them be

That read self help books that are based and I'm not just saying my book but read read material increase your knowledge base on abuse zip dynamics so don't just believe the one thing that you saw think think deeply go towards four five books sit with

you are now both you're both people are really conscious both people can do this there are so many books and films today that are available on this dynamic go into it a little see I'm a deep depth person so I'll always give these deep type of things maybe people

will not like it I don't know but get into kind of watching with your partner watching a show on this watch like reading a book together listening to another podcast listening to the podcast again making notes so my book I've designed it with people to write

like the journal there are questions answers it's like a workbook form so people can actually go into like what age did this memory come up now tell your partner this and partners doing the same so if especially if you cannot access couples therapy

which is again why I wrote this that not everyone can afford a therapist like me not I mean somebody trained somebody with a you know experience abroad we also have run up practices we also have to help ourselves so we cannot do free therapy but there is so much need

so what ends up happening is that most people choose the middle ground like some self help some professional help if you can do at least that much that you can go into five self help books and maybe tell your current therapist if you are already in therapy hey this came up

I heard this thing and it really triggered me and my partner that are we like this together I would say that is so amazing that is way more than most people will ever get self observation hundred percent and also I would say sorry third step is ask your friends if they have experienced this in their dynamic especially people who are in long term relationships with each other do not ask your single friends that because they will not have experience do not ask single yogis ask

ghastayogis people who have relational experiences what has that been like for them and then map it some people will say no doesn't work at all like nothing I I've never had this issue in my marriage etc. most people who feel very good friends

and people who are authentic will name not abuse or rape but at least one instance of boundary crossing and boundary crossing is not the same as rape we are crossing each other's boundaries now as we interrupt each other as we think you're saying something it's normal

but it shouldn't become abusive where I'm doing that to gain power over you or you're doing that to prove to me that you're so amazing and I should only listen to you and I then you all the money is with you and I'm your slave okay that is where it goes wrong but normal boundary crossing is I do something when we get subset and we comes back to nia and says you did that thing I didn't like it and nia has regulated enough to be able to listen to run we and say okay I don't like that I did that

like I'm a little defensive normal defensiveness is normal but after two minutes okay tell me what I did okay now if it's happening five times and nia is still not changing that's when it's getting into difficult territory this is roasting is a love language right now that roasting is a love language thing and easily become uncomfortable for the person who's being roasted so eventually at to reach a point where I realize that you have to be very observant

about your partner and understand the things that pissed them off and also the things that trigger them slightly like deep levels of empathy but again this comes from a place of wanting to give your partner the best possible reality true which I don't know you know if that's a concept

goal thank you that's the world I was looking for goal for a lot of people and again I'm talking about being a boy I'm sure it works the other way as well like I'm sure girls also sometimes need to look out for the opposite version of this absolutely okay at this point in our conversation

is it worth exploring domestic violence because do the dynamics change drastically from everything that we've already spoken or is it another version of this kind of stuff where it changes is that where domestic violence becomes evident to other sexual violence can remain close behind

closed doors domestic violence often doesn't remain behind closed doors because the simple logical factors you're not having sex in a party in front of all your friends you're having sex inside a bedroom and it's easier to hide it domestic violence is a little bit more intense for other

people involved because they are watching two friends slap each other they're watching the guy pick up a bottle and alcohol bottle and throw it at her his wife and the glass shattering on the wife's face and the child watching this this happens I would consider you so lucky that that's your

response I think that's really beautiful that that is something you've been sheltered by and you don't and you don't that's not your experience and we that has been so many people's reality watching two parents throw things at each other

and it starts from the more powerful parent physically powerful parents say for example or sometimes emotionally powerful parent the louder one who ever yeah well that this yeah let's say that for this for this because this is a yes yes okay but see what we just did we went between a joke and a

very triggering thing because this is psychological flexibility right now we are not personally impacted what happens at the in that moment is for someone who's really gone through this it gets really hard to go between these states so that's what comes across as dismissive or you're not listening to you're doing et cetera and with domestic violence sometimes jokes are used to avoid accountability with sexual violence you'd often don't find yourself

talking about your sex life with your friends know but with BV you see it happen you'll see go go to a party Christmas party sorry some holiday party et cetera and you'll see the interaction between your couple friends maybe somebody who's violent towards each other and you can just feel the visceral sort of especially if you're empathic you can feel the visceral response in that room and everyone's kind of like walking around eggshells being like I'm not sure what's

couldn't change and the kid or if they have a child they probably watch this a hundred times over right sometimes you walk into people's houses I don't know if you know this you'll see tea stains all over their wall because Chai has been thrown so many times as a response to how triggered I am

by you that I don't know how to say that I'm triggered I'll just throw something and then you will get it because you're a piece of shit in this dynamic and I'm amazing you know or it's the opposite so this is the difference that it's a little more out there it's especially long term

DB long term domestic interpart interpersonal violence you cannot end up hiding it because it just shows long term sexual violence is a little bit more different because it's more hash hash what percentage of domestic violence cases are the woman hitting the guy and the guy not responding again

these are there are proper statistics in India now coming out so I would ask people to look at those reports and study them a little seriously from an off-handed just observational perspective you know really depends on who you ask if you ask like a men's right group they will be very much it's the women really if you ask very extreme sort of groups on the women's side they will say like no it's only men always doing it I would believe so what I do is when I

want to go into such a question I choose again senior level practitioners with many years of experience who tend to be a little more balanced not in like balance everybody's equal not that balance neutral not neutral and we're more holistic you're understanding that equality can't happen in these things everything has a different outcome you have to look at it from a big picture lens like that so I would say I mean in that sense for me it is mostly quite

holistic I in my practice can tell you it's 50 50 because of who I am because of what I talk about many men come to me with female rape female interpersonal violence many women come queer people especially trans people for me transgender

transgender people in my practice are the minority but they also report male male violence on them female violence on them so that's where it gets a difficult to wrap your head around statistics and numbers it's not so easy again when I don't know what to ask I go back to a personal opinion okay my

personal opinion is that I can't imagine a reality by my hand would be raised on a part no girl guy doesn't I left martial arts because of this really yeah and martial arts was my hope sold yeah but after I just because I won't be able to combat people it's not who I am okay I think I'm on one end of the spectrum of empathy right but even within my social circles I don't know a single guy and I know I have a lot of male friends who I know very deeply I don't think any

of them would raise their hand on a girl maybe I've chosen my friends that way that's not a reflection of society no and also you know that that's not first not a reflection of society to run weird sometimes people are not even conscious of what they're doing so they may not tell a good friend it may happen it may have happened and it may have been excused so my clients are not like let me just be clear they are not people who are struggling for basics my clients are

CEOs of companies people who are high up in like Wall Street people who are like these are like high earners people who have power and privilege so these are the kinds of people you would be many of my clients also have other types of clients don't want to paint myself as this like a queen therapist that's all what I'm trying to say just to clarify I'm saying that we think domestic abuse and sexual abuse happens in a different type of society to a specific kind of

person that's the image that the mind brings the reality is that it happens across class caste gender religious divisions which is why the interpersonal pieces so important to understand and mostly nobody will come out and say I'm an abuser they will say yeah I guess Ranveer if you're asking me

maybe I was mean to that person that day but they may exclude the violent part so this is what's hard about this stuff so that's why therapy works with a good professional it works because things come out which you just haven't

even processed as abusive when one is physically violent on their partner they are validating the reality where violence is okay not just on a partner but on another human being where has that reality been validated in that violent person's life how they just assume that they get Marna

I mean again the simple thing of no not just childhood childhood is one aspect but it's also things that are normalized I want to change the childhood work to just whatever is considered normal in my my psyche so did I get that

from my teacher when I was 18 did I get that from my abusive boss when I first started working at 21 that I saw that my abusive boss was sleeping around with the whole with the whole team and was never getting held accountable and people were sleeping back with him for a better job so I have

normalized it happens in many industries right so I've normalized this as a boss for example and I will continue this pattern that yeah sex is a good exchange for higher favors so so it's whatever your reality was that's considered normal so violence if you experience it in childhood definitely

you will consider that as normal normalize especially if you've not seen anybody saying that is wrong what happens in our society is or let me say it used to happen more than in the last let's say 10 years because of social media there's much more awareness now but before mostly it would be this

is not such a big thing everybody hits one so twice in every marriage there is something this is what part of your marriage just relax and mostly it's the woman who's asked to just like keep quiet call you know because he the man

has more power in the patriarchal general construct walk around him give him some good food he will calm down after some time and so the woman is doing this forever forever forever in the in this dynamic in the other type of dynamic where the man is being abused and the woman is the perpetrator by

her gifts just do what she wants you to do just don't rock the boat and that would be somebody who's probably had you know generally like somebody who's had a mother figure that's been very abusive to them and they become kind of like people pleasing towards the women in their life to the point that

they don't understand now my boundaries are being crossed this much is too much so this is where I'm trying to say that yes childhood but also whatever is considered my normal change only happens when someone changes my idea of normal how do you change your idea of normal through knowledge podcasts books reading growth mindset otherwise you don't I get these intuitions to stop episodes also I think we've reached that point but before we end this particular episode or love for you to list out

some great book recommendations for exactly what you just said for increasing your depth of the understanding of psychology and the understanding of your own mind okay sure so the first one which is a bit deep is the deepest one in the field is the body keeps the score that shows us what how trauma

moves from one state of life to another state of life and how your body remembers the other one is any book I don't want to name one but any book on somatic therapy somatic therapy takes it away from only intellectualizing to like I'm having a backache and there may be so many reasons for the trauma

that I have not been able to look at third I would say is surviving especially I want to give this to people who are survivors of sexual abuse who are just listening to this episode and being like I see some lights coming up in my brain it's a handbook it's the sexual trauma workbook beautiful one it will take you through all the writing prompts all the things you need to do in your body to process it then you take it to a therapist if you can afford for sure

unashamed would be mine but in general I would say anything with Dr. Gabor Mate who is the psychiatrist who came into something called compassionate inquiry he's not a trained psychologist he just spent years listening to clients in the field and moved from medicine to listening so he's come up with something called compassionate inquiry so his take on trauma is very relevant for India he widened the lens from saying trauma is only abuse that one episode

no he shows how that one episode then carried over you're it carries over your entire personality especially if it's not processed with a safe person if it's not he ate so and I can give you more later this whole episode has been about that processing aspect of human life right that's right you know when I was growing up I didn't know that processing was even available as a service in our old yes no I was not aware this is this is we're not told this processing is a

concept is so alien what is processing it's slowing down the timeline and actually bit by bit going into what happened what hurt what was joyful in a country that is so broken from so much oppression that's trying to oppose the world's game its national spirit where did our parents of that generation have the time to think about emotional stuff Randeer it was very much about money and class status and moving to a better everyday livelihood which is

why I'm not critical towards that generation I have criticisms of them but I understand their resistance to change because it it is there's lots of trauma there for the next generation the millennials the gen X's the I mean the

gen X's the millennials the Gen Z's the Alpha's and everybody else much more accessible and school you're able to log on to a social media app and look at mental health knowledge amazing so I really feel we should use the best of this era Nihabhat thank you thank you it's just episode one

okay 17 more to go a lot of fun even though it was a very heavy conversation thank you thank you Ranveer for being interested in this topic lovely speaking with you and I think there's lots of resonance in the ways that we're doing this that was the episode for today ladies and gentlemen want to bring a lot more psychology related conversations out on the Indian Internet I hope you gain value from this particular podcast we link Neha Mams handles it on below she's

going to be back on TRS please tell us in the comment section what else you'd like to hear her speak about once again I hope this podcast moves this conversation in the right direction and until next time guys from Ranveer and the whole team at TRS thank you for listening in