All right , folks , welcome back to the Property Couch podcast in yet another edition of the Summer Series , as we are now in the shadows of the Christmas turkey and getting the celebration set to bring in a new year , ben .
But today we are talking to a very inspiring property investor who , at the age of 10 , the age of 10 , ben bought $500 worth of Westpac shares and that set the spark for investing , and who also counts the COVID lockdowns as the perfect conditions to buy his first property . What else do we have , ben ?
Well , Bryce , this is a money mastery story , so you've got to work out . Well , where do you build those habits ? Well , it's also a story about some of the secrets , and one of those secrets is a very savvy money mom . We'll learn all about that as well .
Savvy mom , you've got to hear this story . Folks , let's rip into the show .
Welcome to the Property Couch where each week , you get to listen to two of Australia's leading property and money experts Bryce Holdaway , co-host of Location Location , location Australia on Foxtel's Lifestyle Channel and co-host of Escape from the City on the ABC .
And Ben Kingsley , chair of Property Investors Council of Australia and a back-to-back winner of the Property Investment Advisor of the Year Award , and both the partners of the multi-award winning Empower Wealth and , as of more , the Freelife Style Design Act , as well as bestselling authors of the Armchair Guide to Property Investing and Make Money Simple Again .
Stay tuned as they bring you the Insiders Guide to Property Finance and Money Management .
All right , Ben . We've got a very special guest today that we're chatting to on the Property Couch . It is a TPC listener . His name is Bailey . Welcome to the Property Couch , Bailey . Hello , how are you going ? I'm pretty good .
Hey , for those that are listening to this , they can't see what we can see , but we've got you on clearly a break at work there because it's it looks like a fair bit of hardware in the background , so the YouTube listeners will know what we're doing . But thanks for joining us today to talk about your story .
Part of that is really getting a better understanding of what growing up was like for you and conversations that you may or may not have had with your parents around money . So did you have any conversations over the dinner table , Bailey ?
Not necessarily conversations , it was more sort of watching what was happening . My mum was very savvy and that was sort of ingrained in me . That sort of helped my budgeting and saving and that sort of thing .
But it was sort of kept very quiet about what was spending , mortgages , how much they all earned my mum and dad earned yeah , it wasn't really spoke about much growing up .
When you say mum was savvy . What were you observing in that ?
Just sort of like we wouldn't really ask for things . I know we're sort of taught not to ask for things . We wouldn't really get what we'd ask for . We sort of mum would make us lunches . We wouldn't buy lunches . Everything we'd do we'd sort of mum would do it herself or do things as cheap as possible . Dad was a shift worker and mum was a chef .
She worked like morning shift , so dad would obviously work long hours and do that sort of thing and mum would sort of look after me and my brother and she'd do a lot of the shopping , cooking and that sort of thing .
And yeah , in terms of holidays and what we'd do for entertainment , things like that was always pretty cheap and kept us pretty what's the word ? Just grounded .
So give us some context , Barley . Where did we grow up ? Where about in Australia are we ? I grew up in Aubrey .
Stayed there , did all my schooling there same house , my whole life and then did an apprenticeship in Aubrey , at the same place where dad worked , and then the company shut down and then I moved to Melbourne .
Okay . So growing up , one brother I picked up mum's quite astute with money , Mum might say very strict in terms of where the money's being spent . So you're learning observationally here . What are you picking up on other than obviously , all the meals are being pre-prepared ? When your mum went shopping , did she have a list ? Would she buy a name brand ?
Would she buy a home ? Tell us about where she would take that extremities . Would she really tie it on the funds or did you get any name brand Vegemites or pastas or ice cream , or was it all pretty basic stuff ?
Yeah , I think she did it pretty good . I wouldn't say she was tight . I would always say savvy is the key word . She would spend on what need to be spent and cut costs where they could be cut . As I learned off you guys the discretionary spending versus the essential spending . She was all over that without knowing it .
She made lunches , brought home brand pasta when you could get away with it or if you couldn't buy the good stuff . But yeah , she was all over the discretionary versus essential spending .
And what about experience ?
So for holidays and things , my dad's family's from England . So we went to England once as a family when I was roughly six and that was a big family holiday . Apart from that it was really just canvies and that sort of things . We did one other trip to the Gold Coast with another family and did the classic Gold Coast theme parks and that sort of thing .
But yeah , the overseas trip it was sort of like two birds with one stone see the family do all the family thing and then a little bit of a holiday at the same time while staying at my grandma's house . So even with experiences , it was still a bit of being that savvy sort of word .
So one part savvy in that respect . Let's talk a little bit about managing . So were there any investments ? Were there any sort of making the money work harder for you , or was it all about just retiring the debt and basically having the household paid their mortgage off ?
So never really ask them any questions about it . From what I've seen , we had a house sort of 15Ks out of Aubrey on a block of land , I imagine . They brought it pretty cheap and built a house on it . Dad did a bit of the work himself , so they've had it for 30 years now . In that time , obviously , the value's gone up , skyrocketed .
They never did any other investments until I was probably 10 , guessing they must have taken equity out of the house to put into a serious amount of stocks .
And when they did that I was actually thought I wanted to get into a finance background , a finance future , sorry , and I'd saved up all my pocket money as a kid and said , yeah , I'll put in 500 bucks and get $500 of shares as well . I don't actually know whatever happened out of that .
I think they gave me a couple of things and said , oh yeah , this is your dividend money or whatever , and then I think I forgot about it . In the long run I'll put it towards a birthday present . But yeah , that was the only real time I knew of them investing . But even that , I don't think they were fully committed to it and I think they mum was .
I think that was sort of the negative part , of her sort of saviness . She was watching it too hard and it's the same now that I've seen with her super . She watches it too much and every day refreshing , refreshing , seeing what's happening .
I think she wasn't quite comfortable with knowing it's a long term thing and so , yeah , I'm actually sure if that lasted or if they did pay it off or not . But yeah , that was the sort of the first real investment I've seen in my life .
So you got these . You got these shares 500 bucks , but you didn't know which shares you bought . You just knew you bought this thing of shares .
Is that right ? I didn't know it , like being sort of pretty young kid . I just gave him my pocket money . It was $500 of Westpac shares . I didn't know anything about compounding growth and that sort of thing , I just thought better than putting my money in a bank , so I did that .
I thought that was a good way to spend my money and then , yeah , I think my parents would just have to take it and they knew they were going to look after it and I think ended up going towards a motorbike for the property or something like that back when I was a kid . Yeah , it wasn't really a proper investment . You take this .
There's some early gold here . There's some early gold here . Bailey , that is a 10 year old save up $500 .
I mean , you know a lot of birthday money .
My 10 year olds get birthday money and all that type of stuff , but they don't find a way to save it . They are burning a hole in their pocket . So you are learning some behaviors from whether it be your mum , observationally , and then I think it was a smart way to spend it , because it's you're buying , hopefully appreciating assets or hot shares .
You're owning a company you own Westpac At the age of 10 , you're a shareholder . That's enormous . That's a big story .
Yeah , the idea was definitely there , but just didn't quite know enough about it to execute it properly and leave it in there for the long run .
Oh , I made it 10 years old . You needed to work harder , mate , seriously .
Sorry . I remember Nan always saying to me oh yeah , what do you want for a birthday or a Christmas ? Oh yeah , it's $50 , whatever . And what did you spend it on ? I'd put it in the bank , just things like that . I was like that from a very young age .
Awesome . So , bailey , what's the spark here ? So you're buying shares at 10 . Grandma gives you some birthday money . You're putting it in the bank . What do you think is the spark that's getting you to say , oh , I'm , I'm going to actually keep some of this for tomorrow , rather than doing what most people of that age do what can I do with it today ?
I think at that age I was just always so content with I didn't need to seek external sources to keep myself happy and entertained . I was always very content with friends on the bike or just out kicking the soccer ball , playing footy , whatever just outside . I've been like that my whole life .
Really , I haven't needed much to be happy and to do what I want , even like the holidays . Growing up , when I first started earning money during my apprenticeship , I just told myself I'm happy to just travel around different places in Australia and do those sorts of things .
I've been able to restrain from wanting to do big overseas trips and blowing all my cash on that . I'd love to do it , but there's a time and place .
I'd just sort of see myself better off exploring Australia while I'm young and saving my money while still being able to enjoy myself to then see a future where I can have a bit more time and the money will then be passive . I don't think I saw that as a kid .
As a kid I just was comfortable , and now I'm realizing I can be comfortable now and even more comfortable in the future .
Were you seeing that with your peer group as well and your family ? Or is that something a little unique to you in terms of being satisfied with what you had and just the experiences you had Because you've got a regional New South Wales upbringing ? Was that typical of your peer group or were you a bit of an outlier ?
Compared to my brother , he didn't quite get the same genes . He was happy to spend and get the far way one that he needed . I was always a savour type .
Then , with my friend group , I was one of the few to go straight into an apprenticeship versus a lot of them would do Union Aubrey or Union Melbourne , so they were all leaving off a very minimal uni allowance . I was getting this cash coming in from my apprenticeship and I would do things with my friends , but I would do what they could afford .
That's good like a life hack . Yeah , that's right , absolutely . I've like a few guys I work with . They've got young kids coming up and I've told them that you should definitely get your kids into a trade versus uni , just straight into making money . No Hex debt , anything like that . I don't know . There's still the same outcome in the long run . Hey .
Bailey , there's people who realise this stuff when they're 50 and 60 , that this whole idea of delayed gratification and simple pleasures are often the ones that bring us the greatest amount of happiness , and you've nailed that understanding at the age of 18 , not 20 , 21 . Now I think I sort of think back to my .
Folks have got a , probably about 15k out of Yarrowonga , and if I had a , we spent basically six weeks every summer up there and we didn't even have to go into town .
You basically have enough to do on the property , like you're saying riding a motorbike , fishing , swimming , all of those things and our luxury might have been an icy pole like a super sucker or icy pole or whatever they were called at the time . That was bliss and we were having the time of our lives .
We didn't need to spend a huge amount of money , go to the mall , go to a movie , drop 30 bucks on that and then go and play the game machines or whatever it is at time zone .
These people that are coming to that realization now in their 50s , and you've got that magical understanding at a young age , is the reason why I'm going to love unpacking this story today , because there's so much in what you're doing and when we tell everyone how old you are and what you've been able to do , it's a good little story .
So let's lean into that , then . Bailey , the story so far is mum savvy , you're watching , you're putting money into shares , you're banking lots of money . You now develop this incredible life hack of going well .
You rise and fall to the level of the spending of your friends and you're thinking well , my friends are not spending a lot , so this is working out super great . So what are you doing with this money , this surplus money that you're achieving through this lifestyle ?
Yep so throughout my apprenticeship I set myself goals of how much I wanted to save each year and then I was slowly ticking those off and saving up money . I probably saved up 40 , 50 grand by the end of the apprenticeship and still didn't really know what to do with it . I was sort of maybe thinking shares or stocks .
I had a family friend who was a financial advisor and he was sort of pushing that stock option but at the start I was a bit hesitant to make a decision . And then I got qualified , moved to Melbourne , started earning some proper coin months , qualified and then locked down and struck and that was perfect for me .
I could make money and had nothing I could spend it on . So then in the next sort of year and a half I saved up another 50 grand and had just about 100 grand at the bank and thought , yeah , I've got to do something here , really want to invest it , wanted to decide it or wanted to buy a house . I'm not sure how I come to the conclusion .
I think it was just because hearing the stories about the housing market booming and it was just sort of what was going on during COVID Everyone was buying houses .
So yeah , spoke to all my connections in Aubrey had a really good friend growing up and he's family's full of real estate agents and yeah spoke to them and they helped me out , found me a really good property .
I was glad of someone I could trust and he was doing FaceTime walk through his houses and yeah I'd send mum there and they would find the right house for me eventually and yeah brought a house at 21 .
Bang , which is brilliant . So how many people been sort of say , oh , how good was lockdown , but how about you going ? Geez , lockdown was beautiful . It meant that I could increase my savings .
Bailey , can I ask a question that might take a little bit of thinking , because , right , it may not have been presented this way to you before , but you've been able to be pretty happy internally and comfortable in your own skin , by the sounds of things . How did you , you know , like , do you care about what other people think about you and what you do ?
I don't care what they think , I'm pretty because I know I've got a good plan and yeah , I'm pretty confident in my plan . That what people say . I get accused by my mates of being tight . I always say I've got a union , I was earning money . They were always saying , oh , you're so tight , I'm not going to do this .
Even I've got terrible old golf clubs and I'm getting into golf and my mates are saying you've got to buy a new set of Taylor Mades or Callaway's and I thought I can play with these clubs . They get the job done still and I'm just . I feel like I'm not tight , I just feel like I'm savvy .
I feel like I'm happy to spend money on things that are important to me , but I'm very cutthroat on it's not important . I don't want to spend money on it .
But that's the beauty , and therein lies the beauty on the idea that that peer pressure hasn't moved the dial for you . So you've been able to , because you know the maths right . You're going to have the last laugh . There's no doubt about that . It's absolutely proven that you're going to be .
You know that story of the person I'm trying to think of in the Morgan Housel book . You know where he made millions and millions of dollars and no one knew just how wealthy it was . He just lived , you know , happy but you know very quiet life . Well , you will have that last laugh on the pathway that you're on .
So now we're not saying develop financial under X here and don't spend on anything , because it's clear that you know playing golf with your mates is an experience and all those things are true . But you're making judgment calls around the importance of that money and just how much it's worth spending .
That you know , increasing your value , that you get out of something . So if the old clubs do the job , you know , are the new clubs going to get you one or two strokes around ? Maybe , but is that enough to spend two grand or three grand on a set of golf clubs ? So this is , you know , to our community and to the summer series audience .
This is one of the biggest learning lessons you will have in life , and that is , if you're comfortable enough in your own skin and you're not worried about the envy and you're not worried about social and all of that other stuff that goes on , and you can just have a plan and execute on that plan , the number of mistakes that you will avoid is going to be
magnified in terms of where your financial position will be by the age of 30 . And then the sky's the limit after that in terms of what's going to happen . So that's why I really doubled down and double clicked on this whole idea of how you set up . There's no doubt careful with money . You've learned a little bit of that from your mum .
You've also got this ability that you know . Really , you know some of this stuff , these , these material things that Bryce always talks about isn't , isn't necessarily going to make you happy . It's not . It's not a sugar hit . What you're effectively looking for is is things that make your money work harder for you .
And I tell you what , if we could bottle that and pass that delayed gratification concept into the minds of others , we'd be in a far better place financially for a lot more households around the country . So that's why it's such a good story . So you saved up your 100 grand and now you've bought your first property at 21 .
Tell us the feeling after that very first purchase . How did that feel for you ? Around a sense of accomplishment .
This is actually a disappointment . I didn't , I did not , I could not care less . It was just . It was for me like putting it in another bank . That's all it was . That's just . I was just brought . I brought a good property . That was just an investment . Like I didn't see the house for two years . I could not be bothered .
My housemates wanted to take me out for dinner . You got to go crack a bottle of champagne , whatever . For me it was just like people , like people . My friends sort of thought like , oh , you've brought a home , but to me , it's not home . It's just a yeah .
As you guys say , it's a small business , it's my , it's just yeah , no different to me putting my money in a bank , just it's working harder now .
It's a bricks and mortar bank account , but hey , I think , bailey , it's worth sort of what you , what you've been saying at such a young age is . People take a lifetime to even hopefully get exposed to some of these concepts , and and then being exposed to them and executing on them is is is a massive difference .
So I'm super , I can't wait to get to what money means to you and and your North Star . But we won't get that . We'll get there shortly , but I think I think the takeaway to this point for our listeners is that that some of these things that your friends wanted to get golf clubs you didn't .
Your friends wanted you to celebrate the investment property , but you didn't .
Having some of that that clarity of mind and clarity of purpose and and obviously to your point , being very , very clear on the goal form some of the that's some of the foundational stuff that's really really important , because then you go and execute and you do all the other stuff that we talk about on the podcast but not needing to impress anyone , is probably
one of the best financial assets you'll ever have .
Yeah , absolutely . The only only one is , yeah , having a partner , having a take your after dinner every now and then , that one that hurts the bank every now and then , but you're happy to do it .
I'm glad you said , I'm so glad you said happy to do it at the end there , because there'd be there'd be a bit of trouble . A couple of things that would then worry me is that maybe this game and this business is everything you're thinking about .
So it's about getting that balance right , because it's very clear to me in only speaking with you for a couple of minutes that you're different , like in , in terms of the vast majority of the mainstream population . Don't get this , they've got inertia , they don't care about it .
You're sitting in that 5% of the population who are different , and you know it through your network of friends . You know it through your observational learnings in terms of seeing how other people use money , and so you will be incredibly successful if we are judging success based on wealth building and money management .
But there is , there's got to be , there's got to be enough . Smell the roses in there as well . Right , like we just aren't going to go through life for the sake of just building wealth , but all of those other people who might be listening to this in the community say yeah , that's right , that's right . Don't hold on to that .
I want you in this camp more often . I want your headspace more often in this side of the conversation than it is in the . I'll just work out a way of justifying this particular spend for myself and this particular spend for my family , and we'll get to that whole wealth building thing later on .
It should be in the right , in the right , waiting to be delayed . Gratification , spend less than you earn , you know all of those classic sort of things and then start making your money work harder for you . So I think that is the message here , that that that's that hopefully will resonate to people , that there's a difference about you .
And so what are those differences ? Is what we're trying to discover , such as that do you care about how other people think about you ? You've learned about how mom looks after you .
Those types of things are really interesting and you're comfortable Like you don't care about how other people judge you , and that's that's hard for a lot of people and they've got to work on that and that's the work that Bryce does a lot in terms of . You know those , those money mindsets and and that you know the behavioral mindsets and the life hack stuff .
That's about working on you rather than working on your actions around that sort of story . So all credit to you Probably a good segue into the next step around with the business that you've just got into . How did you set yourself up ?
Tell us a little bit about your money structures and how you sort of gone about organising finances , and how have you built a habit and routine around ?
what that looks like . Sorry , just on your last point about smelling the roses . An important thing for me that I've just sort of discovered is I was a bit too far in one direction , too far in saving my money putting the bank account .
But since sort of getting onto you guys in the more profile and sort of smart money I'm just starting to learn about that it actually has helped me more to spend more because , like , you're telling me to put this much money into my holiday account , this much money into going out and et cetera .
So now I've got this money and , like in the past I would , I haven't been on holiday yet , I'll just save it . But now it's sort of it's good . It's telling me come on , you need to go on a holiday , you need to do this . So I've actually got a holiday planned for I'm going Friday so two days from now off to Thailand for two weeks .
Brilliant , yeah yeah , so .
so what would be ? I would be at that age going to first overseas trip in .
Yeah , wonderful , wonderful . Yeah , and it'll be a culture shock to you as well . You'll see a lot of different things right , so that'll give you a great appreciation of how wonderful our country is , but also how amazing different cultural experiences are around the world . It's nothing better than traveling overseas to get context and perspective .
Yeah , absolutely so buddy , you're aware of these how ? I'll ask a better question how aware are you of having these foundational traits as a person to your peers ? Are you super conscious of that , or is it just something that's innate in you and you don't know what all the fuss is all about ?
As in like your ability to not need to impress anyone , your ability to withstand peer pressure , is that something that you're consciously aware of , or it's just like ?
Yeah , no , I definitely for a long time just thought it's just normal , it's just how people are , people just don't care what other people think . But then I don't know , I was starting to realise that they're like . Before I started investing , I was just sort of , yeah , this is me , this is how people are .
But now I've started investing , like I brought my first house and now I'm staying the reward of it . A couple years later I'm trying to tell my mates come on , you got to do this , you got to get your foot in the door .
But it's so hard to get started and I'm now understanding how lucky I was that it was sort of ingrained into me from a young age and it's so hard , like all my friends . Of course people want to do this , but it's so hard for people to change their habits , their money habits , to put them in a , put their effort forward .
So we built out the right context here . Just for clarity , you're currently in Melbourne during COVID and you're buying back at home . So it's not like you live in Aubrey and buying in Aubrey . You're like anyone else who's listening to this , who's younger in age , like you .
You can be living in the big smoke , renting somewhere , but you can be parking your money somewhere else . So that's your lived experience and is that your key message to the people of your generation and your age group ? To say , well , when all I hear is roadblocks whilst I can't get in , it's , maybe a little paradigm shift might help here .
Yeah , absolutely . There's so many reasons why people can't get in , but it's so easy to come up with an excuse .
But for me , from my experience , it's just a matter of finding out what you need to make you happy and then putting that first and then sort of knowing what you want to do in the future and you're aiming for it and keeping that conscious at the front of your mind .
Yeah , people were complaining house prices are too high , but they're lower somewhere else and it doesn't really take that much just three years in apprenticeship and a year out of my apprenticeship . And then here I go , I'm on my way , I've started , and once I got my foot in the door I've slacked off quite a lot .
But now my money's doing the work for me , so it's just putting in that groundwork and then it's easy .
Now that groundwork does come with sacrifice and trade-offs . We've just learned about them . Friends have got better golf clubs than you . They might be doing more activities and doing more experiences now , but there's nothing building up in the background . I'm looking at your well speed on the platform .
I'm looking at basically all the different things that you've got in here , which is just great , but , to your point , you're renting right at the moment and you've got a good amount of cash buffers in there . You've got a nice amount of equity in the property that's been able to build out and you're ready to potentially go again .
So let's sort of talk to that story . So you , as you said , you relaxed a little bit . You knew your money was working harder for you .
You've now got a holiday planned , but tell us about the next phase of what you were thinking about doing what got you on that journey as part of this building of this portfolio , and how you're gonna build out your wealth .
Yep so , post COVID , interest rates started going up , spoke to a mortgage broker to refinance my home loan and yeah , in the background was thinking , yeah , things are great , I wanna get another place at the same time . And yeah , he pushed me towards a new home loan . He was what you call your enthusiastic amateur .
He just found me , like I told him I planned , wanted to get a new place in the future but wanted to refinance for now , and he was just like all right , I'll get you the best interest rate for this place and refinance and come with me . So he's done that refinanced .
My rates I was paying didn't change at all , basically changed a couple of bucks , that was it . I thought , gee , that was a bit of a stuff . I haven't really done much here . Anyway , he said I can get . I had enough money to buy a house worth $450,000 . And I'd always been told to diversify and spread my money . So I thought it was terrible thinking .
But I thought , all right , I've got a place in Norbury that's got good capital growth , I'll get a place in the city that's good yield , just to maybe increase cash flow and sacrifice on capital growth . So I was looking at apartments in the city , thought I was , yeah , great idea . Thought I was all over it .
Got really close to buying a place , thought I had the perfect place , went to a conveyancer to , yeah , to sign the contracts and he said the real estate agent lied about the owner's court fees . There's an extra three grand per year . All right , I put my foot down , slow down a bit , get some proper advice .
And then a friend told me to get onto a buyer's agent and he suggested to come in that he'd worked with in the past . But I walk past your building every day on my way to work . So , yeah , thought I'd , yeah , look into you guys .
Gave you a call and then they were blown away that I just called you just from seeing the name on the wall and told me you've got to listen to the podcast , got to actually do some research , look into these guys .
And then , yeah , looked in , heard all the stories and now I'm on the way to buying a second place through you guys within a couple of weeks , over in Perth .
So it's quite incredible because I mean , obviously that's opportunistic . It's quite incredible . It's sort of almost . People talk about luck and it was fortuitous that that luck came in .
But one thing you did do well to create this sliding door moment for yourself was you got the contract reviewed by what sounds like a pretty good conveyance and you , just looking at the rough numbers , thought that a high density apartment in Melbourne had really good rental yields , but ultimately all of that yield was gonna be eaten by your fees .
So if they didn't declare those fees for you , you would have potentially have gone through and executed on that , paid the big STEM duty fees , and then we'd be reversing out of you like the bad haircut story that we talk about in terms of we fix bad headcuts or we fix bad property investment advice .
So again , it's serendipitous in the way that it's rolled out that way . But you've gone and done some research and now you've taken a different pathway .
So I suppose from me , what has been irrespective of the fact that it's with us what has been the big lessons that you've been able to learn from the process that you've gone through , from being that enthusiastic amateur to your point having an enthusiastic amateur mortgage broker initially to refinance you .
what have been some of the big lessons that you've learned as part of that journey , as I mentioned before , just one in terms of budgeting budgeting to make myself a bit more comfortable that was , yeah , that's what I'm just learning now .
And then , while building the property portfolio , I learned so much about really setting up each property to help the next one find out , really , really lock in on exactly where you want to be at the end and where you want to finish for the next year .
And then I started to get a little bit of a push with how much sort of helped me get an actual goal in mind and that's made it easier to push forward . In terms of mortgages and home loans , I did not have a clue what was best for me . My old home loan had no offset , just putting all my money into the account .
So , yeah , learning about offset and interest only repayments , that's been a huge one . And even , just most importantly , choosing the correct investment , getting the correct location first and then , yeah , type of house , suburb all that that's been huge .
When I first started listening , I thought like listening , because I went back and listened to the first 20 episodes and I'm hearing you talk about it all . I'm trying to do it myself , but there's a difference between knowing what to do and what to look for and then actually executing it .
And yeah , I was looking , trying to try to shortcut it , do it myself , say myself a buck , and then , yeah , probably one of the most important things I've learned is to spend the money , get the advice off the professionals , to then just set yourself up because they pay themselves off almost straight away .
But do you reckon getting it right first was a help or hindrance ? Because Sometimes when you get it right early and young , you can actually make the mistake that this is pretty easy .
Yes , but on I I thought , yeah , I can do this . In COVID , 300 kilometers away from where I bought a house , I thought this is too easy , too good to be true . Why is everyone not doing it ? And then , yeah , so close to making a huge stuff up in buying a high density apartment .
It was gonna make no money in the peak of it , let alone when things go bad . Yeah , it was a For the first couple years of the house . Yeah , everything went so easy . And then , last six months , before I Come across a good plan , and people that could really help me was . It was a nightmare trying to figure out what to do .
I knew I had to , I knew I was ready to go again , but I didn't know how to do it . So , until I seek the proper professionals to give me the right advice , yeah , that made it so much easier .
Did it rattle you to the point that you thought I might not go again ? Or did it just rattle you to the point where I thought I just take a pause and just take a deep breath on this ? Was there any , was any risk that you weren't gonna proceed ?
there was . It put a lot of doubt in my mind and it definitely slowed me down . It made me scared and cautious of getting back in the market . But yeah , now that I've got the right advice , it's , I feel , comfortable to go again .
What , what bit made you scared ? Was it the fact that there was ? There was some , some Wolves in sheep's clothing ?
Yes , but on there , the people who , who seem the nicest and seem like they're gonna help you the most , or actually the ones doing the most damage . I spoke to to Brendan from your team and he sort of gave me a bit of a reality check on what needs to happen then and I sort of it was a bit of shock , but it's .
It's more what you need , compared to the people telling you , yeah , buy this perfect property , get a home loan with this company , do this , do this . It all sounds great , but they're just selling you something rather than giving you advice for what's best for you .
So what was the shock , what was the bit that was shocking , that took you back a bit just how , how little my Money could get me where I was looking and how Like , in terms of like , I thought I wanted to get something in Melbourne and just I was shocked it how far off I was in terms of looking for a place that I wanted .
Yeah , looking at apartment in the CBD of Melbourne or something that it shocked me because I wanted a place that that I liked in a location that I liked .
But , yeah , it was a bit of a wake-up call to think that you got to be a borderless investor , even though I was technically the first time but To be truly borderless and go over to perfect , get a place over there , that was you are only just borderless .
Yeah , that's right For those in context , how far across the border is is Aubrey .
It's on the border . It's basically all we would don't go is inside of the river , the mo river . Yeah , it is on the border .
So so , as far as borderless investors goes , you're as technical as it gets , living in Melbourne and you just Qualified to be borderless nice , so tell us about that , your idea of being borderless across the other side of the country . It's a separate time zone . You can't jump in a car and go and check it out .
Well , you can , but it's not the most optimal way to do it . You've got to jump on a plane . Talk us through the decision to be to be a Borderless investor on the West Coast .
Yeah , it was a tough one . Yeah , because my already property . I have friends and family there . Anything needs done , I'll do the maintenance myself or get friends to do it . Feel like I'm saying myself a lot of money there .
But I sort of went back through it , looked at the things I spent my money on in terms of maintenance and Then compared it to how much I'd spend . I got it Outsider to do it and it was no difference at all really and it saved myself time , gave me back the time .
So Just made me realize if I am over in WA it will actually make it feel less stressful knowing that it's all just , just , it's all like In my place in Aubrey . I feel like if there's a problem I got to do it myself and go to get friends and family do it myself . It feels like a burden , whereas In WA it's hassle free .
Got my property agent to look after it , I will get my property agent to look after it and , yeah , I won't have to spend much time on it at all . So it's actually a bit of a blessing in disguise .
It's a passive investment , right ? You're running a business , but you don't necessarily have to be hands-on in that business .
Bailey , I want to spend a minute just as you're going through the process of Organizing your priorities like big rocks in the jar , the sequencing , what you could afford in regards to borrowing power , and when Brendan maybe asked you the question about what about your own or occupied property , or what does that sort of look like ? Take us through .
You know what you were thinking and what you ultimately decided in terms of your planning approach . You know , are you rent-vesting indefinitely until , potentially , you get serious with your life partner , or are you ?
You know , so just take us through what that story looks like my plan is to rent vest for as long as possible Until , yeah , as you said , I want to settle down With a life partner , potentially have a family , whatever that entails pets , whatever . Until then , yeah , so happy to .
It's just so much easier to rent the lifestyle I want to live versus trying to Buy a house that's Too far out of town that you're trying to do . You're trying to do the best of both overhouse , but you're also driving through an hour of traffic and tiny little backyard , and it's just it's .
I find it's actually easier to , yeah , rent where you want to live and then put your money into your investments . So we set my plan up as Rent-vesting for you at a time being , until things change .
Then I can , yeah , quite easily go back to it and have a few minor adjustments for that , and so does that mean you're , you're quite aggressive on this next purchase in terms of Purchase price , like , give us an indication of what sort of Price you're looking to buy and around .
Yeah , I'm looking at a place worth 500,000 In the southern suburbs of Perth . I don't know the area too well yeah so . That's . It's gonna stretch my savings down . It's gonna stretch my yeah savings down pretty low . I actually haven't set up too much Defense . I feel like my defense is age and money discipline .
You've got the two perfect things you need if you're gonna have low , low , you know low risk profile or higher risk , I should say and that is discipline age . Yeah so .
So , bailey , with the summer series , we've been focusing on what money means to to you , right , and you've given us some insights , and I'd love to know what it actually means for you , because here's what you thought you told us peace of mind , time with family , work-life balance , improved lifestyle and happiness .
Right , a lot of those are sort of Internal things peace of mind and happiness but there is , there is clearly a priority around spending time with your family . What is what has improved lifestyle mean for you and your ? Because of your discipline and because of your age and because of your time horizon , you are going to be a very wealthy man , right ?
So have you have you , have you let your mind wander to what happens For you to have those improved , the improved lifestyle , because you're already , you know , borderline , struggling to spend money , but Because of what you're doing , you're going to have a lot of money . So I know there's a few parts of that question .
But what , what , what does improve lifestyle mean to you ? And what is the north star ? What's the goal ? That's ? That's keeping you driving to , to keep building out this portfolio .
Yeah . So my Like , I've always sort of thought to myself I don't want to , I don't want to be on the tools forever , I don't want to , yeah , be doing factory work , fix machinery for my whole life . I'm not too bothered about Building a huge portfolio .
I know , like I started earlier I've got the potential to build something big and really set myself up with a lot of money . But I'm sort of more excited to finish up early and have that time Throughout my life .
I haven't really spoke about it much , but throughout my life I've always sort of thought like , about , like Doing the right thing , like Environmentally or like for the good of people , like , and I've always just sort of put it off , just thinking when I have more money or more time then I can do it .
So I haven't thought about the north star too much , but that's sort of something I've been thinking about finish rather than Finish , rather than working till I'm 50 and buying six , seven properties , whatever it is .
I , my plan was sort of Finish up that bit earlier and then I can , and then I've got more time to Help people , do Volunteering or whatever it is that I decide to do that I've become passionate in rather than just keep , yeah , building up and saving money and making Wealth , rather just get the time to get that sort of 2000 or week , whatever , whatever I
decide to finish on , and then I can just keep myself afloat , get myself comfortable Not afloat but comfortable and still have the time to yeah make a bit of a difference .
That's awesome . Hey , we have a framework . We call it the seven grades of financial well-being . For those people who are new to the community , just Google it On our website and you'll see the the handbook and information that goes with that . So what ?
What Bryce just asked you was a question around financial freedom and what we refer to as grade six , which is financial peace . And everyone's financial peace is their own story . Right , it doesn't have to be , as you just said , eight , nine , ten , eleven , twelve properties , ten million dollars worth of outcomes .
It can be as simple as substituting working so you could buy your time back . And grade number seven is what we call financial contribution . But the financial contribution can come in a couple of forms .
It can be volunteering , which means your exertion is about community benefit , community good , paying it forward , looking after others , and we're not going to necessarily get financially rewarded for that . But talk about meaningful , purposeful life and what you're going to do . It's incredible , right , I mean ?
And if contentment can't be found there , in that space , it's fairly hard to work out where contentment is going to be able to be found . So I think , from my point of view , that's exactly why we put these sort of metrics and measurements out there and how we try and give our community frameworks to try and aspire to where they need to be .
But you are an example . You know , bryson , I can already see you in your mid 30s and also , you know , into your early 40s , and we can see what your life looks like because we've got lived experience . We're a little bit older than you In my case , a lot older so from that point of view , I think that that's a really magical motivator and a driver .
That's the intrinsic drive that's going to get you to where you want to be . And obviously there's extrinsic drive external drive attached to that as well . So my final question to you is this one Bryce , did a reach out a few weeks back for people to come onto the summer series and you put your hand up . Why did you put your hand up ?
What message do you want to tell people who are in their early 20s ? And you know what does it mean to you in terms of knowing the journey that you're about to go on ?
I actually , yeah , I found it hard to put my hand up because I hate talking about money and speaking about it .
I find it quite a private thing , maybe from the way I was brought up , but I think the biggest reason why I want to come on is because I'm always trying to like tell my friends like come on , you've got to get your foot in the door , and I try and get started and like , if I tell my friends I'll listen to a podcast Two guys on it talking about finance
I think I don't care . Then if I want to podcast , I say I'm on this podcast , listen to it . They'll then listen and more young people listen and try and get their foot in the door and then hopefully that will just get the ball rolling and get people a bit motivated to get started .
That's brilliant , brilliant strategy . I love it . It's , you know , like . I'm on it so you can hear my story in a little bit more detail to get them over the line , and your stories are a really exciting one . So , in the model that you built just quickly , what was your passive income target and how old are you when you hit that target ?
My passive income target was $2,000 a week , and it ended up being calculated at 45 , but I haven't set any goals for career growth , so that's something that I need to really figure out . I need to figure out oh , pretty certain once I set my goals on career growth and where I want to be in each couple of years .
It will then help me drive towards actually reaching it . If I , if I , if I don't set my goals , I'll just be too comfortable in what I'm doing . I think I'll reach it when I'm 45 . But if I , if I set some goals and really drive myself to push and get there as soon as I can , yeah , it's something I need to do .
Can I ? Can I tell you sorry , just to jump in there can I tell you some research around goal setting ? Because obviously , on the more platform we have the my goals area up , the research points to that if you , if you , think about your goals , there's no real great motivation attached to that Right .
But if you actually write down your goals or you have a plan , then that is the next layer up in terms of being able to . I've committed to it , it's in writing , it's visual eyes , and that's why we also talk about in the book , about putting it on the fridge , because you're sort of making that public . Or you've made the biggest public declaration of all .
You've come on a podcast which you know potentially tens of thousands of people are going to be listening to , and so that is a brilliant way of holding yourself to account , because you basically said I want to know , I don't want to put that additional pressure on you , but that's what a lot of people can do .
You know , if you're out and about and you say to someone I'm going to do something like run a marathon and it's put out in the public domain , it actually does provide that additional drive and that additional motivation . So , again , another way of ensuring your future success .
You've just ticked off another box in terms of being able to do that , so well done to you again on that one , bailey , hey Bailey , there's so much to love about your story ?
That question that Ben just asked you in your response was just , was just so incredible . Like it's just , you're just trying to , you're trying to give your mates a leg up and and you've , and you're , you're , you're check mating them into listening to the podcast so they can hear it . I love it . There is , there is so much to love .
So my final question to you is is a tactical question right , it's , you've , you've , you've got . You've experienced some extremes in your short journey , right , the extreme of ultra low interest rates when you first got into the game , when they were at emergency lows . And then the other extreme is the .
The rate of increase in interest rates is is unprecedented in the time frame .
So , in terms of those extremes , how have you navigated the mindset that's required to to be okay with the , the , the external noise that's being heard , the external noise that you hear on the radio , the newspapers , at the water cooler at the pub , versus you know you having to be at the cold face of actually dealing with that . Interest rates are going up .
How have you navigated the mindset and then , obviously , the realities of paying a high cost ?
Yeah . So the first multiple rate rises didn't really affect me . My , my cash flow was enough to cover it without it being a problem , without realizing it really .
And then , as they've got higher , the the cash flow yet being tied , I feel like lately , my , yeah , the amount I've been putting away each week isn't , isn't as much as what I used to feel like I'm struggling and I was asking questions where's it going ?
And then realizing that's why there's an extra extra thousand bucks almost going into interest and mortgage repayments .
And then the other biggest thing was the borrowing power just kept kept going down and down and down , especially when I was with my old broker who set me up with a bit of a rough deal with the company that didn't want to lend much money at all .
Yeah , it made it hard , made the , it made my goals seem like they were pretty far away until I got some proper advice and they sort of assured me that this isn't forever . Things will turn . And but even even my , now that I'm so comfortable with it because my , my , my plans are set for an interest rate that's above what I'm paying now anyway .
So it's still , I'm still got , I'm still winning compared to what my plan is so realistically now like now my mindset's fully flipped that these interest rates over the high , they're still better than what I planned for , so can't go wrong part of my defense strategy , really .
And the good news is , your tax refund will be nice as well , because you actually get a little bit more back than you probably had when you first got in when interest rates were so low .
But hey , ladies and gentlemen , you've been listening to a 24 year old for the last little while just to just to remind you of the context here , and you were really nervous at the beginning and we we appreciated . To Ben's question , that you've come on . We know why you came on is to help your mates . So to to Bailey's mates we're talking to you .
You've got a friend here who can mentor you through the process and you should probably be listening to him . So if you have been throwing your hands in the air , bailey , and they haven't been listening , me and Ben are talking to your mates right now . Listen up , do what he says , because he knows what he's talking about .
But it's been a pleasure having this conversation with you . You . Success leaves clues and I promise you you've left a ton of clues for our audience to get a better understanding of what it takes to to build an investment property portfolio .
So we're going to watch out , we're going to watch you with interest and I have no doubt that you will be retiring early . I've got no doubt you'll be making a big contribution to the world and you get to do some stuff that makes a difference to other people . So on behalf of everyone here on the property , couch Bailey , thanks for joining us today .
Thank you very much for having me . What Ben , what an impressive young man Bailey was he . He was incredibly articulate and you could see at first a little nervous , but when he got in flow with his story boy , oh boy , oh boy . That was inspiring .
Bryce , you saw how excited I got to talk to him . I mean , bailey the tradie , what I ? He's just going to make very few mistakes . He is going to make very few mistakes because he has a completely different mindset .
He has a very organized and low emotional approach to the whole planning and the execution piece and he's going to live a financially free life so much earlier than most people . You know , some people will be thinking about their retirement planning when he's actually planning to retire . So you know , when he's retired , it's just such a good story .
So you know , I mean , he's the type of client that I dream of and he's the type of community that we want to build , because there's just it's all about purpose , it's all about adding value and paying it forward , and the contribution doesn't care about what other people thinks . He's the perfect package . So he's close to what we call money mastery .
Now , none of us ever get there . So , make no mistake , you're just striving to get to money mastery and wealth creation mastery . He is on his pathway . How do I , you know , how do I dot eyes and cross T's on a story like Bailey's ? I'm sitting back , thinking to myself .
Well , one of the things that the people like this story is that people like this high aspiration , high understanding , high interest I would be talking to them talking to him heavily about looking at the new card view inside the more platform , because it takes it to the next layer .
So we think about our financial classification , like income and expenses , and then we go to the next layer where we've got our items or our groupings . So what do I spend on transport , what I spend on the house , what I spend on education ?
Well , everything underneath that layer is where these people want to live , and so that third layer down , which is that card view , just allows them to get deeper context and deeper insights and understanding on that . So really , I'm just sort of saying keep doing what you're doing , bailey .
That's the little bit of value add that I might be able to give you , and then just check in with us on a semi regular basis but get out there and start living your life as well , because it is a great story .
And to the point and a couple of these themes about finding a way and young people saying that they're not buying into the negative sentiment that it's impossible to buy a property . Here's another example and proof of the story that you can actually do it .
You've just got to be willing to make some trade offs , some compromises , some sacrifices for that to happen . So you can see how excited I am about talking about him . It's such a such a great story and he should be super proud of his efforts to date .
He should be super proud of his efforts to date . And here's a message to his mates , ben , because you remember , at the end he said that one of the reasons he came on is so his mates would listen to this . So , boys , I'm talking to you now . You have someone within your sphere of influence that is going to make a significant difference in his life .
So you've got a choice at this point in time you can follow him and take the path that he's doing , or you can wait , and you can wait a decade and 15 years time and look back and go how lucky was Bailey . But right now you have the same choice . You have the same environment , you have the same conditions that he has to actually do a similar path .
So do yourself a favor . I know it's very difficult to be a prophet in your own village , ben , no one likes to listen to your mates , but there are lots of people who are listening to this podcast who will be inspired by Bailey . So we're hoping that you , as his mates , are inspired by Bailey as well and get on board , ben . Get on board .
Do what Bailey's doing . Let's put the challenge out there . Bryce , you've inspired me and Bailey's inspired me to put the challenge out there . Gents , download the more app . Work out your wealth speed Right . Work out your exertion or your working income speed . Have a look at your passive income speed .
Look at all those speed gauges built into the platform and compare notes . You know the reason why we say what do you talk about money over the dinner table is we've got to have this conversation , and we've got to have the conversation not only with our family and our loved ones , but also our friend network . It shouldn't be a taboo subject .
So let's put the challenge out there for you , for the community , to talk to your mates . Work out what your wealth speed is . Work out , have a look at your wealth clock it's ticking over and seeing in terms of how you can accelerate that story out . Give yourself that challenge .
Give yourself the challenge of saving more in terms of the annual surplus challenge . Make sure you do that , because I think it's going to be a massive opportunity for you to be able to hone in and get some focus on what's going to matter for you in your future and start building that wealth today , because the best time to start was yesterday .
The second best time to start is today . So you've inspired me , bryce . I've got an idea . I'm going to build on it .
Well said , mate , well said . Now , folks , as we sign off on 2023 and we look forward to 2024 , we understand that it was a year full of challenge and opportunity and lots of excitement , and really it depends the way that you reflect on the year is pretty much up to you . You get to write the story on how you reflect on the year .
But here's what I want to hopefully inspire you as you start to plan out 2024 , because by the time we catch up next , the new year would have passed , and I just want to hopefully hope that the summer series is inspiring you to do one thing Spend less than you earn , invest the difference and wait .
So , as you start to build your goals and you make news resolutions and you get your gym membership all sorted in January , all we want to do is get that simple message to you that these people who have been on the summer series to date , and all of the guests that we've got coming on the summer series in January , have essentially done that they spent less
than they own , they trapped some surplus , they invested the difference and then they are being prepared to wait . And if you're prepared to do that , independence lifestyle by design and , as Ben said , it's pretty easy . All you need to do is go and have a look at your numbers in the more platform . You get a pretty clear understanding of how it all works .
But , ben , that's hopefully the parting message that I want to do for 2023 is hopefully these stories are inspiring you , that it's not for other people , you can actually do it yourself too . So , folks , happy new year . Ben and I are just as fired up for 2024 as we've ever been to deliver amazing content to you , our community and mate .
Happy new year to you too .
Happy new year to you , mate , take care Until next week . Knowledge is empowering , but only if you act on it , particularly around you is resolution .
See you next week , folks . Hey folks , bryce , here again . I just wanted to catch you real quick before you go .
If you're new to our community , I want to encourage you to listen to our very first 20 episodes , as the concepts we share in EPS1 through 20 are foundational principles , pillars and frameworks that you need to know for you to get the best value from our content week to week on our show , my little tip is to listen to it at one and a half speed .
Now , for those of you that are time poor and don't have the option to go back to the beginning , don't worry , because we've got you covered as well . We've created a binge guide that summarized these foundational episodes into one easy to digest booklet so that you can get up to speed super fast .
So go to the show description on whatever device you're listening to now and simply click on the first 20 episodes link to download it straight away .
Oh and , by the way , whilst you're there , you'll find a few extra goodies for you , including a link to download our lifestyle by design app more , the home of wealth , speed and wealth clock , and our hugely popular MoneySmartz Money Management System , as well as how to get free copies of our bestselling books .
Now , just a reminder that anything we cover on this podcast is not considered to be financial advice , and we certainly recommend that you seek out expert advice tailored to your unique circumstances , and everything we talk about is general in nature .
Folks , I want to encourage you again to click on the show description , wherever you are listening , to access all the free goodies we have for you Until next week .